Speaker 1: What's that a.
Speaker 2: Bed?
Speaker 1: It spooky?
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming this way.
Speaker 4: Wait a minute, I said, Nandez.
Speaker 3: Plase, Hey boo, it's me Roz. Welcome to Ghosted by
Speaker 3: Roz Hernandez, the podcast where I invite my friends on
Speaker 3: to talk about things that make the little hairs on
Speaker 3: my body stand up even though I've spent thousands of
Speaker 3: dollars on hair removal procedures. I want to welcome you
Speaker 3: to October, my favorite month, Oh my god, And this
Speaker 3: is the craziest October of them all, because this is
Speaker 3: the month where I get to say that I am
Speaker 3: a paranormal TV star. The TV show that I am
Speaker 3: honored to be a part of, called Living for the Dead,
Speaker 3: premieres October eighteenth on Hulu, and I'm dedicating this whole
Speaker 3: month to my fellow castmates. Now, if you haven't heard
Speaker 3: about the show, just a quick little description produced by
Speaker 3: Kristin Stewart, also narrated by Kristin Stewart. Produced by Scout Productions,
Speaker 3: the ones that created Queer Eye. I mean, hello, and
Speaker 3: it's me, three psychics and a tech lesbian and we're
Speaker 3: all queer and we're traveling the country. That's a real
Speaker 3: brief description. Okay, on the cast, I'm sort of the researcher,
Speaker 3: you know, that's what I do. I get into dead
Speaker 3: people's business. I'm also joined by Ken Boggle. He's on
Speaker 3: the show. Ken Boggle is an incredible tarot card reader
Speaker 3: and also has some psychic abilities and has a long
Speaker 3: history with paranormal investigation as well. Then there's Logan Taylor,
Speaker 3: who is a very charismatic psychic medium that can make
Speaker 3: a person cry. I mean, he talks to your loved
Speaker 3: ones and he knows exactly those things that only somebody
Speaker 3: with special powers can know. It's incredible. Then there's Alex LeMay,
Speaker 3: who I jokingly said is the tech lesbian. Alex is
Speaker 3: actually not a lesbian. Alex's queer pan By and Alex
Speaker 3: is an incredible ghost hunter that specializes in tech equipment
Speaker 3: technology you now all the different gizmos and gadgets. And
Speaker 3: then there's my guest today, Juju Bee. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: Juju is also somebody that has got some psychic abilities.
Speaker 3: And Juju is also a witch. She's a whodo lady,
Speaker 3: She's a healer. She definitely specializes in a lot of
Speaker 3: practices that I don't know a ton about and that's
Speaker 3: why it's really cool to have her on the show today.
Speaker 3: The funny thing about all of these people, and you
Speaker 3: might be listening to this and you're like, well, I
Speaker 3: haven't even seen this show yet. I don't know, but
Speaker 3: I want to introduce you to all my friends because
Speaker 3: this TV show is going to be a huge part
Speaker 3: of my life, but also this podcast. They go very
Speaker 3: hand in hand. I've really dedicated my life to fun
Speaker 3: queer paranormal content and making it funny, and that's what
Speaker 3: this TV show does as well. It's what I do
Speaker 3: on the TV show. And I do see these two
Speaker 3: worlds very much combining. I mean, it's like the and
Speaker 3: the TV show. They're so complimentary to each other. And
Speaker 3: now I'm on a paranormal investigation team and these are
Speaker 3: the people that I work with so closely, and a
Speaker 3: lot of the stuff that I'm going to talk about
Speaker 3: with each of these people you may not learn about
Speaker 3: on the show quite as much because well, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's eight episodes. They all drop October eighteenth. But you know,
Speaker 3: there's there's only so much we can talk about on
Speaker 3: the TV show. So I'm hoping that we can just
Speaker 3: kind of dive a little bit deeper in these conversations
Speaker 3: and I can get to know my teammates better and
Speaker 3: you can get to know them as well. But yeah,
Speaker 3: it's all very crazy that I get to be a
Speaker 3: part of the show. What do you think of the
Speaker 3: title Living for the Dead? I actually came up with it.
Speaker 3: I came up with it. I mean, I'm just it's
Speaker 3: just a fact, it's true. I did. They were trying
Speaker 3: to come up with a title for the show, and
Speaker 3: the creative team and producers were we were like workshopping
Speaker 3: a bunch of different titles, and it just hit me,
Speaker 3: Living for the Dead. That's how I envision it, Living
Speaker 3: for the dead, as many syllables as possible, Living for
Speaker 3: the jad, That's how envision it.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it's like a perfect title, if I do
Speaker 3: say so myself, because you know, it's sort of like
Speaker 3: I love a title that means more than one thing.
Speaker 3: I mean, hello, ghosted by Ras. But the title living
Speaker 3: for the Dead, you know, my first instinct is like
Speaker 3: sort of how we talk in queer culture, drag culture,
Speaker 3: like most of the way people talk, the kids talk
Speaker 3: these days. I think the main root of it is
Speaker 3: ballroom culture of queer and transgender. You know, many trans women,
Speaker 3: drag queens and gay men of color are the originators
Speaker 3: of a lot of these fun things that we all
Speaker 3: say these days, like throwing shade and yes, queen, you
Speaker 3: know all these sayings. But so you know, you say,
Speaker 3: I'm living, Oh, honey, I am living for this podcast. Honey,
Speaker 3: I am living for those shoes. And I said, you
Speaker 3: know what, I am living for the dead. But also
Speaker 3: like we're the living and we're helping the dead. Like
Speaker 3: we are we are for the dead. We are the
Speaker 3: living and we're for the dead. Also on the show,
Speaker 3: we are helping living people that are dealing with the
Speaker 3: dead in their homes or their places of work or whatever.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I liked it. So Luckily I
Speaker 3: wasn't the only one. And now I get to be
Speaker 3: in a show called Living for the Dead. Okay, guys,
Speaker 3: enough enough up top here. Oh, actually, one more thing
Speaker 3: I do want to point out that I am doing
Speaker 3: some tour dates. Honey. I'm going to New York City,
Speaker 3: I'm going to Seattle, I'm going to Portland, I'm going
Speaker 3: to Vancouver, the Canadian one and h more dates keep
Speaker 3: getting added, So please check out my Instagram. The link
Speaker 3: in my description will have ticket sales and you know,
Speaker 3: ticket links and dates and all of that stuff. So
Speaker 3: I'd love to see you there. I will say, I'll
Speaker 3: be doing stand up, not ghost related stuff. I'll be
Speaker 3: doing just jokes about the living. But nonetheless I'd love
Speaker 3: to see you there. Okay, here I go, talking to,
Speaker 3: in my opinion, the funniest person in this cast, Doju
Speaker 3: bay On with this show. I am joined by truly
Speaker 3: one of the most gorgeous women I've ever seen. And
Speaker 3: if you think that's impressive, just the sheer beauty that
Speaker 3: radiates off of her. You guys, see what she can
Speaker 3: do with a little bit of witchcraft and some eyeshadow. Honey.
Speaker 3: I am joined by the one and only from Baltimore,
Speaker 3: Juju Bae. How are you.
Speaker 2: Hi, Rossie Pool? Hello, everyone listening to Ghosting not me
Speaker 2: on Ghosting.
Speaker 3: I'm famous while you are one of the stars of
Speaker 3: this new TV show called Living for the Dead, which
Speaker 3: is premiering on Hulu October eighteenth. It's crazy that we're
Speaker 3: talking about this because you and I are both on
Speaker 3: the show together. We have not been able to talk
Speaker 3: about it for over years. Wow, and the day is
Speaker 3: finally almost here. And I just want you to know that,
Speaker 3: and please do not tell this to the other cast members,
Speaker 3: but you are my favorite.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for Rozzie. You're my favorite too.
Speaker 2: I won't tell them if you won't tell them. Jujo,
Speaker 2: it's our secret.
Speaker 3: So Juju, who are you? What's your deal? So?
Speaker 2: I'm a spiritual practitioner. I practice hoodoo some people colloquially
Speaker 2: called this voodoo, which is like an African American medicinal system,
Speaker 2: magic system. And then I also am a practitioner within
Speaker 2: a tradition called ephi, which is like venerating different nature
Speaker 2: based deities more or less. But all of that can
Speaker 2: be encompassed into a witch.
Speaker 1: I'm a witch. I practice witchcraft. I'm a black witch.
Speaker 2: I do magic, quote unquote, and yeah, I talk to
Speaker 2: dead people a lot, as folks will see on the show,
Speaker 2: and interact with the dead a lot, and it is
Speaker 2: a big part of like who I am, and like
Speaker 2: I would not be who I am without the dead,
Speaker 2: and so like I bring them into my life very
Speaker 2: often every single day.
Speaker 3: Was you seeing dead people and talking to dead people?
Speaker 3: Was that something that happened before you started practicing.
Speaker 2: No, actually, like I really wasn't doing anything super special,
Speaker 2: and then I started having dreams, like about dead people, specifically,
Speaker 2: like my dead ancestors talking to me once I didn't know.
Speaker 2: They were telling me their names, what they used to do,
Speaker 2: and I was like, who is this? And I would
Speaker 2: go to my family They're like, how did you know
Speaker 2: about this particular person? So I was like, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is kind of weird. Maybe I should look into why
Speaker 2: I'm having dreams about dead people and my ancestors. And
Speaker 2: I saw that there's just a million different practices of
Speaker 2: people who talk to their ancestors and that their ancestors
Speaker 2: guide their lives, and so I started to do research
Speaker 2: and then I think through that, I started to be
Speaker 2: able to see and communicate with them even more. But
Speaker 2: my spirits were like, hey, you have this gift, is
Speaker 2: about time you start using it. And this is like
Speaker 2: mid twenty So I didn't like plan to be a
Speaker 2: witch or anything.
Speaker 1: It just happened.
Speaker 3: So did you have a moment where you get like
Speaker 3: that scene in the movie where you go to the
Speaker 3: library and you're like looking at the old newspaper articles
Speaker 3: and you're like screaming that's the guy for my dream
Speaker 3: or were you able to confirm that?
Speaker 2: Like, the confirmation really came from having conversations with family members,
Speaker 2: like older family members like oh, I feel like I
Speaker 2: should be using plant medicine to do blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And then I would like go to my great aunt
Speaker 2: who's ninety three, and she's like, oh, yeah, my grandmother
Speaker 2: used to be the town quote unquote witch doctor, but
Speaker 2: was basically the people that cared for black folks, specifically
Speaker 2: like during enslavement birth the babies also did the little
Speaker 2: juju magic spell work. I didn't necessarily go to the
Speaker 2: library but be like, ah, that's the thing. But a
Speaker 2: lot of the things that I saw my dreams were
Speaker 2: confirmed through just like storytelling in my family later down
Speaker 2: the line, once I told them that I was talking
Speaker 2: to dead people because they didn't know that either, that
Speaker 2: was a secret for a very long time. It still
Speaker 2: is unless they listen to Ghosted. They going on now ooo,
Speaker 2: I know, so I'm not even fully out the closet.
Speaker 3: You well, you're about to be on television talking about it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you grew up Catholic, right, I did, so, Okay, a
Speaker 3: lot to unpack there because I believe, since I grew
Speaker 3: up Catholic too, mm hmmm, that it definitely can prep
Speaker 3: you for being someone that would believe in ghosts, yes,
Speaker 3: and the spiritual realm. I mean, does that apply to you?
Speaker 3: Do you think that that has something to do with that?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I always say that Catholics are like the Christian witches
Speaker 2: because they are.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think that they would like that,
Speaker 3: they would hate that, but I completely agree. I think
Speaker 3: that's so much of the ceremony going on in a
Speaker 3: Catholic mass is so just even like a bunch of
Speaker 3: people holding hands saying a prayer together at M down,
Speaker 3: it's always monotone as fuck m and everybody is just
Speaker 3: like chanting, like if you didn't know what they were saying,
Speaker 3: like you would be. It's like they're all saying a spell.
Speaker 3: It's like one big coven it is.
Speaker 2: And like the deity aspect of my work now, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I've been like venerating deities for a long time through
Speaker 2: the Saints, Like there were feast days for saints and
Speaker 2: we would talk about the saints and sometimes you could
Speaker 2: even quote unquote bring them offering like you would light
Speaker 2: a candle for a particular deity that was not God.
Speaker 2: You know, we're venerating Mary as if she's God herself
Speaker 2: or even Jesus. Like it prepped me one hundred percent
Speaker 2: for what I do now. So I have to give
Speaker 2: Catholicism that because it really cultivated the inner witch within me,
Speaker 2: even though I know the Catholics would be rolling to
Speaker 2: hear that.
Speaker 3: I know, but do you feel that it's still like
Speaker 3: in you? For me, it's hard to shake some Catholic
Speaker 3: things like what like, I don't relate to the organized religion,
Speaker 3: the business side of it at all.
Speaker 1: Sure, the admin, but.
Speaker 3: I really think that if I was in a plane
Speaker 3: going down, I might yep, Father Son, Holy Spirit, I
Speaker 3: might do the sign of the Cross.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yep.
Speaker 2: I actually went to this was actually last year. I
Speaker 2: went to a wine festival that was at a Catholic
Speaker 2: church in Baltimore.
Speaker 3: A blood festival, a blood feast, blood feasts.
Speaker 2: It was literally like wine tasting, wine festival, and I
Speaker 2: took my mom.
Speaker 3: But was it did they turn it into They did not.
Speaker 2: Turn into blood. This was strictly secular wine tasting. Pino
Speaker 2: grigio sharaay. They had their reds and their whites and
Speaker 2: the blends. Only a Catholic church would have a wine tasting,
Speaker 2: but I went because I was just so interested. It
Speaker 2: was at the Shrine of Saint Anthony in Baltimore, so
Speaker 2: I went, you know, we're drinking and stuff. And I
Speaker 2: went to the gift shop because they have a good
Speaker 2: job there, and I bought a little book that's like
Speaker 2: to Mary, like Daily Devotional Mary Prayers, and like I'm
Speaker 2: fully a witch, but like I still will read like
Speaker 2: Daily Devotionals to Mary, so like I haven't fully let
Speaker 2: it go, Like I fuck with Mary. I think she's cool,
Speaker 2: like we vibe. I think she hears me. And I
Speaker 2: also pray to some saints though, like I pray to
Speaker 2: Saint Anthony a lot.
Speaker 1: When I lose items, I do too.
Speaker 3: Thank you. That's the number one thing that I still
Speaker 3: do from Catholicism. People listening, if you don't know this
Speaker 3: something that they'll teach you. If you lose an item,
Speaker 3: you say a prayer to Saint Anthony. Bitch. If I
Speaker 3: didn't do it. An hour ago. I have this purse
Speaker 3: from Hell that has three different compartments in it. And
Speaker 3: I was on a podcast and then as soon as
Speaker 3: I was going out to my car, I could not
Speaker 3: find my keys in there. And I'm digging around with
Speaker 3: my long ass claws. I can't find it. And I said,
Speaker 3: Saint Anthony, come on, I gotta get home. I talked
Speaker 3: to Jujube from televisions Living for the Dead, and Sat
Speaker 3: Anthony said, I got you, boo.
Speaker 1: Saint Anthony is my boo.
Speaker 2: Seriously, I talk to him all the time because I'm
Speaker 2: also someone who loses shit all the time, so like
Speaker 2: you will never hear me speaking down.
Speaker 3: There's also the who's the one that you buy a
Speaker 3: statue if you're trying to sell like a car or
Speaker 3: a house or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I can't remember, but some which stores I've been to
Speaker 3: sell those for that reason, I don't know. I like
Speaker 3: it all, Lissa. I am polyamorous when it comes to deities.
Speaker 1: If it works, it works, That's my thing. If it works,
Speaker 1: it works.
Speaker 3: And I love that. I think it's personal. I think
Speaker 3: whatever makes sense to people. Yeah, So, speaking of voodoo
Speaker 3: and who doo mm hmm, I think it is so
Speaker 3: important to talk about that stigma and reputation it's garnered
Speaker 3: from how it's been so horribly depicted in movies and
Speaker 3: books and so many things over the years. So unfair.
Speaker 3: I mean witchcraft in general, yes, but it almost seems
Speaker 3: like voodoo. All people think about is voodoo.
Speaker 1: Dolls, hexes and curses.
Speaker 3: Yes. Is that something you've encountered.
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Like you said, witchcraft in general is not something
Speaker 2: that people see as sexy. Maybe more now, I think
Speaker 2: it's kind of being explored or it's like a little
Speaker 2: bit cute, but in a lot of ways, it still
Speaker 2: feels very surface level. And this is like no shade,
Speaker 2: but just like the oh I have a crystal, like
Speaker 2: that's the safe form to practice. But if you're doing
Speaker 2: anything that's not as like packaged and you know, beautiful,
Speaker 2: it definitely has this negative connotation. I think that who
Speaker 2: do and voodoo falls under that because it's not as sexy,
Speaker 2: it's not as I don't want to say marketable, because
Speaker 2: it's super marketable, but in a way that like if
Speaker 2: anyone's ever traveled to New Orleans, it's just kind of
Speaker 2: like this oversaturation of like come in here and buy
Speaker 2: a voodoo doll, and it's like right, not quite like
Speaker 2: these are actually practices that people used, like medicinal practices,
Speaker 2: learning about plant medicine, the herbs, what stone to use
Speaker 2: for what, what dirt you can use to heal yourself.
Speaker 2: What prayer you can use to have a court case disappear,
Speaker 2: What spell or work you can do to have your
Speaker 2: like slave master stop abusing you. Like these are very
Speaker 2: very deep, long lasting practices that obviously had they been
Speaker 2: demonized because they've saved so many people and they've supported
Speaker 2: so many people, particularly like black folks. So that's why
Speaker 2: I'm very intentional about using those kinds of practices. I'm
Speaker 2: here because someone did a spell, Like I'm literally in
Speaker 2: my embodiment because someone in my family went to the
Speaker 2: Juju Lady, or was the Juju Lady? Birth helped someone
Speaker 2: be born, to know what to give the baby, what
Speaker 2: to pray over the baby, how to protect your lover,
Speaker 2: Like there's just so many things. Not to have your
Speaker 2: child sold away from you in slavery, Like there's works
Speaker 2: and spells for that. So I think that the demonization
Speaker 2: is so sad, and I get it from mass media
Speaker 2: because like I mean, you can watch like Princess and
Speaker 2: the Frog and Disney and like seeing you know, like
Speaker 2: the bad guys, the voodoo guy that's that's in everything.
Speaker 2: But I think even with my own community, it's kind
Speaker 2: of the saddest part because it's like, y'all, this was
Speaker 2: like our thing until whatever other powers that be, like
Speaker 2: in the spiritual space are like, this is demonic, this
Speaker 2: is evil. You must find Jesus, God or whatever. And
Speaker 2: I'm cool with all of it. But I think there's
Speaker 2: definitely like a stigma attached to being a witch. And
Speaker 2: I know when I say that, I don't say it
Speaker 2: lightly at all, because in some places witchcraft is illegal.
Speaker 1: You know, reading with shells is illegal, like in the.
Speaker 2: US, not just in other countries in the United States,
Speaker 2: like you could be fined in like North Carolina if
Speaker 2: you like do divination?
Speaker 3: Is that right?
Speaker 1: I think also wisconon somewhere else.
Speaker 3: I was just writing about it nowhere we went, right,
Speaker 3: or did we?
Speaker 1: We didn't go in any of those places.
Speaker 3: Three break alot am I going to that beta jail.
Speaker 1: Well there's a spell for that.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, case, yeah, you better pull out whatever
Speaker 3: gets you out of jail. You to pull out that spell.
Speaker 1: There's plenty of those, Honey, just give me a brown candle.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, it's like you can't ignore the
Speaker 3: fact that particularly just witchcraft in general is misogynist. That
Speaker 3: goes way back, and then the racism within stigmatizing.
Speaker 2: Who do I mean, it's kind of scary too that,
Speaker 2: like we're on a show where I'm literally doing some
Speaker 2: of those things and like nodding to these practices that
Speaker 2: are so stigmatized, like that is something that I think
Speaker 2: about too, like, oh shit, like what does this mean
Speaker 2: for me? Like I'm gonna have that stay up proudly, yes,
Speaker 2: but also I still don't fully know what to expect
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 3: It's a that now I understand. I mean, being transiting
Speaker 3: on TV two is scary. Yeah, unfortunately we both are
Speaker 3: dealing with our own versions of this kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: We believe in the work that we do right, and
Speaker 3: we know that we're not doing things with bad intentions.
Speaker 3: It's a scary world these days.
Speaker 1: It is good.
Speaker 3: Should we just become Christians?
Speaker 1: I think?
Speaker 2: So maybe she's just going to mess a mess on Sundays.
Speaker 3: It's always interesting and I'm not gonna lie. As somebody
Speaker 3: that works in paranormal entertainment. Sometimes it's kind of frustrating
Speaker 3: when I talk to deeply spiritual people about ghosts, because
Speaker 3: they'll just sort of act like, yes, it's just something
Speaker 3: that happens. It's just it's part of the world. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, bitch, it's scary. Look behind you. But tell
Speaker 3: me about your experience with that kind of stuff. I mean,
Speaker 3: have you seen a ghost? Have you had experiences where
Speaker 3: you go to haunted houses and that sort of a thing.
Speaker 2: So I'm not really the person that's like going to
Speaker 2: haunted places to investigate.
Speaker 1: I mean, for fun, I have clearly you'll see it
Speaker 1: on the show.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't necessarily say that that was a big part
Speaker 2: of my practice. Yeah, yeah, I do readings like I
Speaker 2: read like that's what I do. So I am coming
Speaker 2: into contact with ghosts, you know, ghosts quote unquote pretty
Speaker 2: often because I'm speaking to people's ghosts, like the ghosts
Speaker 2: that walk with individuals, I interact with them. So I'm
Speaker 2: trying not to be the annoying spiritual a person who's
Speaker 2: like it's a part of life, but it really is.
Speaker 1: A part of my normal now day to day.
Speaker 3: Talk about it the way you do. I just my
Speaker 3: silly brain. I just always wanted to be so scary.
Speaker 2: And well, okay, I have a story where I was
Speaker 2: shook a little bit. Okay, So I told you that
Speaker 2: I practice something called ephi is a nature based practice.
Speaker 2: They have many deities that we venerate on specific days,
Speaker 2: and when you first get into the tradition, you go
Speaker 2: through like an initiatory process.
Speaker 1: We have to do all these things, like secret things, right,
Speaker 1: it's a real initiation.
Speaker 2: So at the end you receive shrines of specific deities.
Speaker 2: So this is pretty early in my journey. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm learning about this. I think I want to practice
Speaker 2: this religion. Like I'm going to go through an initiation
Speaker 2: and receive these shrines, and like I'm ready. I go
Speaker 2: through it. I'm doing all these random things. They're not random,
Speaker 2: but they are. And I'm like, did I make a mistake,
Speaker 2: Like this is kind of weird. It's just new to me.
Speaker 2: So on the last day, we're all happy, we celebrate,
Speaker 2: we have a little party.
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to the religion. Blah blah. I get three shrines.
Speaker 1: I go home.
Speaker 2: They're like, you know, put them one by the door,
Speaker 2: one here, one there, and you know, make sure that
Speaker 2: for the next few days you like talk to them regularly.
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. I'm like, okay, so we're done. I
Speaker 1: go home.
Speaker 2: I put my shrines down. One of them has a
Speaker 2: lot of like different medals in the shrine. Another one
Speaker 2: is like stone. So I go to bed first night
Speaker 2: in the new religion, yay, And all throughout the night,
Speaker 2: I hear the stones like shifting around like on the
Speaker 2: ground in my house. And then I hear the metal
Speaker 2: clashing together constantly just throughout the night, like I can
Speaker 2: hear the things that are in the shrine just like
Speaker 2: being picked up and dropped. Ain't nobody in my house
Speaker 2: with me. I don't got no cats, I don't got
Speaker 2: no animals nothing. That shit scared the shit out of me.
Speaker 2: And this was like outside of my room, Like I
Speaker 2: couldn't even get up to go look because I was terrified.
Speaker 2: And at that moment, I was like, I think I've
Speaker 2: just like signed my life over to the devil, Like
Speaker 2: I thought.
Speaker 1: I was like, why did I do this?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I regretted it instantly, but then I woke up the
Speaker 2: next day and like I shook it off. I don't know,
Speaker 2: it sounds weird, but like I got to know the
Speaker 2: shrines and talk to them, and now they're like my
Speaker 2: best friends. But it was the moment where I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this shit is real. I'm in my room, awake and
Speaker 2: I hear my shrines shaking and moving in the other room.
Speaker 3: Do you interpret that as them saying hi? Or what
Speaker 3: now I do?
Speaker 2: But okay, I'm new, like I'm not super into the
Speaker 2: witchy juju woo woo yet.
Speaker 1: So I was terrified. But no.
Speaker 2: I talked to other people and they're like, yeah, sometimes
Speaker 2: when you bring your they're called are show. When you
Speaker 2: bring your risha home, they're unpacking their bags. Yeah, they're familiar, right,
Speaker 2: They're moving in like they're putting it in their friend
Speaker 2: getting cozy, and that's what it is.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, so that happens to people. They're
Speaker 1: like yeah. And also you're a medium because you are
Speaker 1: able to hear that so clearly.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, oh, you're like okay, so I
Speaker 3: could start charging people. So you're saying I can make money.
Speaker 3: It's interesting to hear you talk about being terrified because
Speaker 3: from my experience with you, we went to borderline hell mouths.
Speaker 1: We did.
Speaker 3: We went to some places that I would not send
Speaker 3: my words to enemies to God, and I never saw
Speaker 3: you scared sure, cold, maybe because it was freezing, tired
Speaker 3: because we had long hours, whatever, But I never saw
Speaker 3: you scared. And what's that about? Is that your ancestors?
Speaker 3: Is that your faith? How do you describe that?
Speaker 1: Mmmmm, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just well, one, I know I was so afraid
Speaker 2: back then because I was new, and now I just
Speaker 2: feel like I've been in it so many years, Like
Speaker 2: this was at least five six years ago that I
Speaker 2: first got my arisha. So I guess it's my faith.
Speaker 2: I feel very protected insecure in what I practice, and
Speaker 2: I just am not phased by a lot of things.
Speaker 2: But this isn't just like the witchy shit. I'm kind
Speaker 2: of like flat when it goes to that. So it's
Speaker 2: not that I'm just like so not afraid. I'd just
Speaker 2: be like, okay, chow over all right, like let's let's
Speaker 2: figure it out.
Speaker 3: Complete opposite of me. I think it would be so
Speaker 3: funny to see footage of you sleeping and me sleeping
Speaker 3: when we say to these haunted hotels, you were just
Speaker 3: in there with like face mask on, knocked out. Yeah,
Speaker 3: just like so just peaceful. It would be that song
Speaker 3: did Do Do Do Do? And then there's me over
Speaker 3: there shaking constantly with my eyes look at Dart and around.
Speaker 3: I was so scared.
Speaker 1: Did you really not sleep well?
Speaker 3: Girl? Sleep well? Sleep at all? I didn't sleep any
Speaker 3: of the times that we stayed at Haunted Play, says.
Speaker 3: The only times that I slept was if we had
Speaker 3: time during the day, if we weren't going to start
Speaker 3: until noon, I would go to bed once the sun
Speaker 3: came up. I don't know, five six o'clock in the
Speaker 3: morning what I would go to bed then until like
Speaker 3: ten or something and then get ready. So some nights
Speaker 3: in those locations, I had like four hours.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: But you know, as of right now when we're recording this,
Speaker 3: you and I have only seen the first episode at
Speaker 3: the Clown Motel, and I believe you'll see more of
Speaker 3: that process later on in the season. But when I
Speaker 3: was watching the Cloud Motel one, I'm like, this makes
Speaker 3: it look like I slept great. I'm here to have
Speaker 3: a great time. No, the truth is our rooms were terrifying.
Speaker 3: I feel like, wasn't yours pretty scary?
Speaker 2: Yes, my room was very scary. I didn't sleep well
Speaker 2: at least the first night either. But just because I
Speaker 2: just I'm bougie with my accommodations, but honest sleep well either.
Speaker 1: I was like, what is this?
Speaker 4: Oh, ew, well, there is something about a motel that
Speaker 4: scares me, Like people can just knock on your door,
Speaker 4: like I have doing shows out of town before, like
Speaker 4: stayed in motels and had people knock on my doors
Speaker 4: in the middle of the night.
Speaker 3: Right, the whole experience freaks me out. Sometimes not always
Speaker 3: necessarily because a ghosts right. But I didn't have any
Speaker 3: experiences in my room at that place. But they would say, oh,
Speaker 3: this is the room where people wake up and they
Speaker 3: see a man sitting in the chair next to the bed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, scratching you, pulling hair.
Speaker 3: And then they go, here's your room key, have a
Speaker 3: good night, see you. Yeah. And then also written in
Speaker 3: pencil on the wall, people had written their experiences. Oh
Speaker 3: I was staying here and this happened, and that happened.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: I didn't notice that until like night two or something,
Speaker 3: and I started reading that, and I'm like, there's no damn.
Speaker 3: I made cat I sink ken in his bedroom strictly
Speaker 3: platonically as two friends, two separate beds, period. But yeah,
Speaker 3: you never let it get in your way, which I
Speaker 3: admire so much because it got in my way. It
Speaker 3: broke me down. The ghosts got the best of me.
Speaker 2: Oh god.
Speaker 3: And I think it's because part of the fun for
Speaker 3: me is being scared, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thrill. I will say. I was afraid
Speaker 2: the most in Bisbee.
Speaker 3: Bisbee, Arizona, the Copper Queen Hotel. Holy shit, the scariest
Speaker 3: place I've.
Speaker 1: Ever been, absolutely period. Bisbee was scary.
Speaker 2: I just don't really show outwardly fear, but show I
Speaker 2: was scratched there.
Speaker 1: I know what happened to me didn't make the cut.
Speaker 3: So here's what people don't understand about paranormal shows. There's
Speaker 3: a lot that is happening when the cameras are not rolling.
Speaker 1: Yes, and that place.
Speaker 3: In particular, we stayed multiple days and nights in that building,
Speaker 3: and it was non stop. Every time we would congregate
Speaker 3: back together from our rooms, everyone had stories about stuff
Speaker 3: that had happened.
Speaker 1: Yep, I had a scratch on my neck.
Speaker 3: I very much remember that. It was terrifying the room
Speaker 3: that you stayed in, and you were right a couple
Speaker 3: doors down from me, I believe. Yeah, you were on
Speaker 3: the scary floor too, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But my ancestors literally were like, you need to
Speaker 2: move rooms, and I did, but after the scratch, they
Speaker 2: were like, get out of that room. You're finding any
Speaker 2: other room you should not be there. But someone else
Speaker 2: on production was scratching that room too the night before
Speaker 2: I got scratched that room.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Have you ever not listened to your ancestors?
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely?
Speaker 3: And how'd that go for you?
Speaker 2: I don't listen to them a lot because we don't
Speaker 2: always agree. It's kind of like, you know, you may
Speaker 2: have friends or family members, like they're giving you the
Speaker 2: best advice that they have, but you want to do
Speaker 2: you as your life, you know, m.
Speaker 3: So you don't view them like now that they're spirits
Speaker 3: they are all power nah, and they can see the
Speaker 3: future because I think people make that mistake a lot.
Speaker 3: It's sort of like how people do the weedy board
Speaker 3: or whatever, and they're like, will I get married next year?
Speaker 3: It's like, why would a ghost know that?
Speaker 2: The thing is like, they know a lot like I
Speaker 2: think when they die, at least in my traditions, when
Speaker 2: they die, they are able to see a little bit more.
Speaker 2: They don't have the same kind of restrictions and boundaries
Speaker 2: that human beings have. Because we're like literally in flesh,
Speaker 2: we can only do but so much. So, like spirits
Speaker 2: have the ability to see a little bit more, but
Speaker 2: you don't take into account. Like again, these spirits are
Speaker 2: na God, they don't know every single thing. They also
Speaker 2: used to be humans, so they have a certain way
Speaker 2: that they look at life and experiences based on their
Speaker 2: kind of human brain. They're not humans anymore, so they
Speaker 2: have the ability to grow and expand, but they don't
Speaker 2: always and like some of them, some of them don't know,
Speaker 2: like they don't know. So yeah, like I'll listen to
Speaker 2: their advice because I value them because I know that
Speaker 2: they are coming from a place of love and they
Speaker 2: care about me.
Speaker 1: But sometimes I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2: Here, y'all not gonna do that though, but appreciate the advice.
Speaker 2: They're not the end all be all. They're just supportive
Speaker 2: spirits in my life whose advice I take when I
Speaker 2: need to.
Speaker 3: The consultants, they're consultants. Do you view spirits just this
Speaker 3: way that are your ancestors or do you view all
Speaker 3: spirits this way?
Speaker 2: Well, the thing with my ancestors is that I trust
Speaker 2: them because I know them. Right, Other spirits, spirits be
Speaker 2: lying spirits be trying to confuse you. I mean, we
Speaker 2: were talking about tricks to spirits in one of the episodes.
Speaker 2: I think that was actually clon Wotel, Like, spirits have
Speaker 2: their own agenda. You never know who you're talking to.
Speaker 2: They're just like people. People be lying, people be stealing, people,
Speaker 2: be cussing, people be uh huh bitches. Spirits encompass all
Speaker 2: of that they can.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was just talking to Alex, who you'll all
Speaker 3: meet next week on the show. She's one of our
Speaker 3: other cast members, and I was saying, like, when you
Speaker 3: ghost hunt or whatever you want to call it paranormal
Speaker 3: invest and you ask are you a demon or whatever?
Speaker 3: And then it comes back saying yes, bitch, why am
Speaker 3: I gonna believe?
Speaker 1: I feel like well' wouldn't tell you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I feel like this is one of these things,
Speaker 3: like if I moved to a new city where no
Speaker 3: one knew me, I could just make up my own storyline.
Speaker 3: People could be like, are you a billionaire? I could
Speaker 3: be like, yeah, I am, why not? And I've got
Speaker 3: eight husbands at home, Like I don't know, I could
Speaker 3: just make up whatever the hell I want. I feel
Speaker 3: like sometimes there's ghosts that are probably viewing it like
Speaker 3: that too. Like they are, They're like, ooh, this would
Speaker 3: be fun. I'll be a demon for this one.
Speaker 2: They one hundred percent. It's like going up to my
Speaker 2: ass like did you break into my house? And they
Speaker 2: broke into your house. I'm not gonna be like, yeah
Speaker 2: I did. They're gonna say no, yeah. Spirits lie like
Speaker 2: people lie. Spirits lie. I think once people realize that
Speaker 2: they are not the end all be all, they would
Speaker 2: have better interactions with the spirit when you just go
Speaker 2: in knowing like whatever, it is, like you just take
Speaker 2: what you can get.
Speaker 1: If you like them, if you trust them, cool, if not,
Speaker 1: like hey whatever, totally.
Speaker 3: I think you just have to take it for what
Speaker 3: the experience is.
Speaker 1: Yes, you do.
Speaker 3: I find it really hard to find concrete answers in
Speaker 3: that world mm hmm, just because everything is so unknown
Speaker 3: it is. That's the mystery.
Speaker 1: That's the fun part to.
Speaker 3: Me, that's the fun part. What do you think of demons?
Speaker 3: Do you believe in.
Speaker 2: That the concept of demons is a bit foreign in
Speaker 2: my religions plural, But I don't think that that means
Speaker 2: that they don't exist. I think if people have experiences
Speaker 2: with demons, then they exist in some capacity because people
Speaker 2: have experiences. But I don't really come into contact with demons,
Speaker 2: and in some ways I don't even fully understand what
Speaker 2: a demon is. Besides like growing up Catholic and like
Speaker 2: hearing about demons, Like is that what it is?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Are they actually nice? I don't know? What do they
Speaker 1: be doing? Where are they?
Speaker 3: Siria?
Speaker 1: Tell me? What are the demons?
Speaker 3: Do you believe in, like inhuman energy that is bad?
Speaker 1: Okay, yes I do.
Speaker 2: I do believe in like malevolent or inhuman energies that
Speaker 2: do not mean you well or mean us well, though
Speaker 2: they may mean somebody well though, which is getting into.
Speaker 1: A lot of weird things.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I do believe in that, but I just
Speaker 2: feel like, not to get too deep, but like some
Speaker 2: of the things I may view as malevolent is what
Speaker 2: someone else may view as benevolent, or what somebody else
Speaker 2: may like or appreciate, or that spirit supports this other person.
Speaker 2: It may not align with what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 2: But to say that it's purposeless for someone else, you know,
Speaker 2: I can't say that.
Speaker 1: So sure, I guess it's a demon to me.
Speaker 3: But if we talk about that with humans, mm hmm,
Speaker 3: a lot of people take comfort and really nasty views.
Speaker 3: You know, it brings them joy, It brings them comfort,
Speaker 3: So what do we do about them?
Speaker 1: It's hard.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously there's things that are just like big
Speaker 2: hell knows, like moral morally, that are like, okay, you're
Speaker 2: fucked up.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, But people would.
Speaker 2: Say that I'm evil, and people do because I'm talking
Speaker 2: to dead people and I'm talking to spirit and yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not Christian, So in some spaces I
Speaker 2: am that malevolent thing. I do represent that, though I
Speaker 2: don't feel that way. I hope you don't know that.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't feel that way about me, But shit,
Speaker 2: I am to people, even to some family.
Speaker 3: That's why I brought you here today so I could
Speaker 3: let you know that I think you're evil, and I
Speaker 3: think what you're doing is wrong in human, inhuman and
Speaker 3: against my beliefs. I can totally see that. Like, you know,
Speaker 3: we all have freedom in this country technically ish, yeah,
Speaker 3: to practice whatever we want or believe whatever we want.
Speaker 3: I think that where it crosses lines is when it
Speaker 3: really intentionally fucks up other people's lives. That's the part,
Speaker 3: that's the part. Anyway, back to fun stuff, So when
Speaker 3: it comes to your medium, medium, messtic, medium ship, medium
Speaker 3: ship abilities, what do you do you hear, you see,
Speaker 3: you smell?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, some when you say smell, I do smell.
Speaker 2: That's one of my favorite gifts, smelling and tasting. But
Speaker 2: I do see, but I don't see. I have friends
Speaker 2: who like see spirits like I see you right now
Speaker 2: and you see me.
Speaker 3: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: I don't see like that. I see more in my
Speaker 2: dreams and I see more in like my mind. It's
Speaker 2: really hard to explain. But like medium going to say,
Speaker 2: I'm talking about like you just see it in your
Speaker 2: head more than you see it as an outside figure.
Speaker 2: And then I don't really hear as in voices outside
Speaker 2: of my dreams. I hear as an ideas. So if
Speaker 2: a spirit is telling me something, I'm not hearing necessarily
Speaker 2: the voice sometimes but very rarely, I'm hearing the idea
Speaker 2: of what they want me to share, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2: So it's clear cognizance what it would be called. So
Speaker 2: I'm clear cognizant. And Claire Gustin's.
Speaker 3: My favorite, drag Quin and Claire all the other ones.
Speaker 3: Claire Cognix scent from the House of cognitive sense. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: So one of my favorite things that I learned from
Speaker 3: you was your shell reading. M hmmm, are you able
Speaker 3: to educate us about what that's all about shell readings.
Speaker 2: I didn't do a lot of coin readings on the show,
Speaker 2: I don't think, but I can. You can also use coins,
Speaker 2: but it's a divination tool, and divination is a systematic
Speaker 2: way to consult basically spirits. And it's through binary coding
Speaker 2: and probability that you're able to interpret like what the
Speaker 2: shells and coins mean, So based on how they fall
Speaker 2: up down. It can also get really deep. But to
Speaker 2: keep a simple you know, heads tails up down is
Speaker 2: how you are able to decipher yes or no messages.
Speaker 2: But the more you read, you start to be able
Speaker 2: to read like how the shells fall, like the force
Speaker 2: that they fall. Oh, if it's on ahead and then
Speaker 2: flips over randomly to the tail, which happens typically you'll
Speaker 2: use three to four shells or coins or whatever you're
Speaker 2: using to toss. Yeah, they just fall, and it's basically
Speaker 2: simple quote unquote yes or no. But when you're skilled,
Speaker 2: you get a lot more information than just yes or
Speaker 2: no or maybe. So that's kind of what it was
Speaker 2: that I was doing while getting other information. So they're
Speaker 2: talking to me while I'm also confirming what they're saying
Speaker 2: with the shows.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 3: But like, okay, my question. It's such a confusing question
Speaker 3: and you might not be able to answer it, because
Speaker 3: I have asked us of people before and they can't
Speaker 3: answer it, and it's totally still valid. Like do you
Speaker 3: view that as the spirits are grabbing the shells and
Speaker 3: flipping them with their fingers or is it energy in
Speaker 3: the air that's causing it to do that? Or are
Speaker 3: they kind of inhabiting your body? And like, what exactly
Speaker 3: is happening there?
Speaker 1: That's a really good question.
Speaker 3: Because I think about this with any divination or yeah,
Speaker 3: spirit boards or pendulums or I don't know whatever. I'm like,
Speaker 3: what is actually happening here?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And it's okay if you don't have an answer, I
Speaker 3: just well, it's an interesting thing to think about.
Speaker 2: It is an interesting thing to think about, and I
Speaker 2: think it's a lot of different things. I think that
Speaker 2: the shell itself is a spirit or the cards or
Speaker 2: whatever you're using, and I think that it's something to
Speaker 2: say about communing with that the spirit of a card,
Speaker 2: like the card is communicating about itself. Okay, the shell
Speaker 2: is communicating about itself. I think part two of that
Speaker 2: is if you're talking to a specific deity, they know
Speaker 2: how to manipulate the shell, or they're in conversation with
Speaker 2: the energy of the show to determine how it falls.
Speaker 2: So sure, they could be using the energy of me
Speaker 2: to drop it in a certain way, but it's more
Speaker 2: like I kind of imagine them being in communication with
Speaker 2: the object, if that makes sense, okay, because I believe
Speaker 2: that there's a spirit of everything, including an objects, including
Speaker 2: inanimate things. That would be called animism animism. Yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a spirit of everything. So you can communicate with
Speaker 2: the spirit of this Mike, the spirit of the show Ghost.
Speaker 2: It has a spirit, you know, of this podcast, and
Speaker 2: so you commune with those things in order to get
Speaker 2: what you want. That's the premise of my work. So
Speaker 2: you're communicating with the show. The spirit is communicating with
Speaker 2: the show to then get what it needs or to
Speaker 2: communicate what it needs.
Speaker 3: That's a beautiful way of looking at things. I like it,
Speaker 3: and I also love miss an Mism of the House
Speaker 3: of missm.
Speaker 1: Your mind is like, you're so brilliant.
Speaker 3: Now I'm just a whole drag queen. Can I play
Speaker 3: you some ghost voices?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 3: It's time for EVP or ev plice. Okay, So what
Speaker 3: I do, Juge, I go to TikTok YouTube wherever, and
Speaker 3: I find electronic voice phenomenal EVPs. These are alleged voices
Speaker 3: that people have captured of ghosts speaking. I have two
Speaker 3: of them for you today, and I want you to
Speaker 3: tell me what you hear, and then I'm going to
Speaker 3: give you some options, one of them being the correct option,
Speaker 3: at least what the person believes it says.
Speaker 2: Oh lot.
Speaker 3: Okay. So this is gonna be a unique version of
Speaker 3: this today because the two locations that I am using
Speaker 3: are locations we've been ooo. Okay, So this is from
Speaker 3: Tee Toungu one on YouTube and it is at Waverly
Speaker 3: Hills Sentatorium FUE, which is in Louisville, Louisville, Lousville, Louisville, Kentucky.
Speaker 3: What is this ghost say? Oh God? I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3: So there is like somebody kind of talking for a
Speaker 3: second at the end there like a humane but there's
Speaker 3: a voice. Yeah, that's what we're listening for.
Speaker 1: Got it?
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna play it again. I'm like, it's like,
Speaker 3: do you hear.
Speaker 1: I thought it was hello something, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: That is not what te Tungue one thought it said?
Speaker 1: What did t sung one thing?
Speaker 3: Is it a you bitch? Is it b no? Sis?
Speaker 3: Is it c stew bed or d you p like
Speaker 3: you p someone beat over here? Okay, let me play
Speaker 3: it again please.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I kind of heard you bitch.
Speaker 3: They believe it is a you bitch.
Speaker 1: Oh you bitch? Yeah, okay, you bitch.
Speaker 3: Okay, now that we know that, let's listen again. I
Speaker 3: can hear it. I think that the person, the human
Speaker 3: that talk kind of cut off the but I hear
Speaker 3: you bitch.
Speaker 1: I'll give you bitch. Yeah yeah, I'll go.
Speaker 3: And get into you bitch. I'm gonna give it to them.
Speaker 1: And spirits are so rude.
Speaker 2: They love to call people bitches and shit, so I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised it's so rude.
Speaker 3: Talk to me about your experience at that place before
Speaker 3: we get to the next EVP. Waverly Hills Sanatorium, famously
Speaker 3: known as one of the most haunted places in the world,
Speaker 3: a former tuberculosis hospital that has been out of business
Speaker 3: for decades and is now where people just ghost hunt
Speaker 3: their lives away.
Speaker 2: I wasn't terribly scared. Not to be that one who's like,
Speaker 2: I'm never scared, but I wasn't terribly scared there.
Speaker 3: I meanrego.
Speaker 2: I think what I felt mostly there was a lot
Speaker 2: of the spirits being irritated with like what's happening?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they have a Halloween attraction. Yeah, that has
Speaker 3: a lot of really spooky imagery and all of that
Speaker 3: sort of a thing. And it's in areas where there's
Speaker 3: a ton of history with people being terribly sick and
Speaker 3: spending their last days, and it's certainly viewed as like
Speaker 3: this is spooky. This is where people used to.
Speaker 1: Die, right, Like people see me, you know, still in
Speaker 1: this community. You know.
Speaker 2: I think that was the thing that I felt. Otherwise,
Speaker 2: I actually really enjoyed it. I thought it was like
Speaker 2: beautiful in a way. It was pretty.
Speaker 1: I liked it.
Speaker 3: I like that place because we did not sleeply there.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that, right. I liked it because we
Speaker 1: could go home.
Speaker 3: Yes, that place it was cold, Oh shit, it was.
Speaker 3: You know, this is very lovely that we had this
Speaker 3: conversation earlier about what's evil to some people might not
Speaker 3: be to other people. The same thing goes with what's
Speaker 3: beautiful to some people might not be to all other people.
Speaker 3: To me, I wouldn't call it beautiful.
Speaker 2: The upstairs with the windows out that was given like
Speaker 2: ig picturesque.
Speaker 3: Yeah there was. There was like when you're high up
Speaker 3: but you're looking out. There was some nice views, nice breezes,
Speaker 3: but I never felt comfortable when I was there. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: there were two times throughout the season. The first time
Speaker 3: I saw a ghost, I believe, was at Waverley Hill Sanatorium.
Speaker 1: Oh right, where was that again?
Speaker 3: It was that room that's sort of like that used
Speaker 3: to be their cafeteria.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: And we were there, and of course cameras weren't rolling.
Speaker 3: But I say this as a skeptical person. If things
Speaker 3: weren't happening when the cameras weren't rolling, I would be like,
Speaker 3: what's going on here? This seems fake? Yeah, But no,
Speaker 3: like things would happen when the cameras weren't rolling. And
Speaker 3: I saw somebody in all white running toward the operating
Speaker 3: room and they disappeared in front of me. They were
Speaker 3: just like running and then they were just not there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but it was so quick I thought it was somebody
Speaker 3: that we were working with, but it wasn't. I I
Speaker 3: saw it disappear in front of me. Did you see
Speaker 3: any ghosts?
Speaker 2: I saw a child when we first got there. At
Speaker 2: the top floor. I remember seeing like a little small
Speaker 2: like shadow figure that looked like a child running and
Speaker 2: they were like, oh, yeah, this was the kid's room,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, I think that was actually
Speaker 2: the first place that I saw something like that too.
Speaker 3: Are you sure it wasn't me?
Speaker 1: It was not you? You're not like four to two?
Speaker 3: Okay? One? Okay, this one is also from T Tongue one.
Speaker 3: We have copied T Tongue one because they have also
Speaker 3: been to the Lamp Mansion. Oo, okay, the lamp Mansion,
Speaker 3: which is in Saint Louis. Missura. I want to say Missouri.
Speaker 3: Patton Oswald recently kept saying Missurira, and so I'm gonna
Speaker 3: say Misserra.
Speaker 1: Period.
Speaker 3: What is this one saying?
Speaker 1: And he guesses, sound like it was slipping his nose.
Speaker 3: Let me try it again. Shit, shit, s well, they
Speaker 3: did not hear shit.
Speaker 1: I figured that was not an option. Okay, we're the options.
Speaker 3: Is it a that's cute. B bless you. C my
Speaker 3: best shoes like these are my best shoe or d
Speaker 3: best d Okay which one is that? Let me play
Speaker 3: it again?
Speaker 1: Please? Bless you?
Speaker 3: Yes, bless you. Wow, you're like a real paranormal investigator.
Speaker 3: Look at you. Two for two Okay, Now tell me
Speaker 3: about the lent mansion for you?
Speaker 1: Okay, Limpy, what was limp given?
Speaker 2: It's just with so many places, sometimes they all run together,
Speaker 2: all the ghosts run together.
Speaker 3: I remember you your body being overtaken by a spirit.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, yes, yes, possession.
Speaker 3: Just another day in the life of Juju Bay.
Speaker 1: Apparently it's just so normal. I actually really love possession.
Speaker 1: It's one of my.
Speaker 3: Favorite things to do because's but welcomed.
Speaker 2: Welcome possession, right, being open to possession as a form
Speaker 2: of communication.
Speaker 3: Tell me about that and your experience with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So obviously when people think possession, they already jump to
Speaker 2: like the horror movies of people's head spinning around and
Speaker 2: projectile vomit.
Speaker 1: Not that necessarily.
Speaker 3: Necessarily what if what if you got possessed by an
Speaker 3: owl with a stomach bug? Then could your head spin
Speaker 3: around and puke?
Speaker 1: That's where that necessarily inserts itself.
Speaker 3: That's the one caveat Caveat.
Speaker 2: I have not had the owl with a stomach virus
Speaker 2: to do that just yet. But yeah, like in my tradition,
Speaker 2: we will welcome possession in order to invite spirits to communicate.
Speaker 2: It's like a way to give the voiceless voices. So
Speaker 2: if they're specific spirits that want to say something, if
Speaker 2: they have a message for the group or for the community,
Speaker 2: we'll do whatever, do our little deep breathing and literally
Speaker 2: invite the spirit to come to speak through our mouths
Speaker 2: so that the message can be brought or that they
Speaker 2: can have a voice, or that they can you know whatever. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: ession is something that I've done quite often, because there's
Speaker 2: entire ceremonies to invoke possession of good spirits, you know.
Speaker 3: But how do you get them out?
Speaker 1: Oh it's a whole process.
Speaker 2: You have certain tools and prayers and washes that go
Speaker 2: over you. Someone around will know how to bring someone
Speaker 2: out of possession always.
Speaker 3: But don't you get nervous looking the way that you
Speaker 3: do and your style, your personality that these spirits won't
Speaker 3: want to leave. They're going to hop in and be like,
Speaker 3: I'm good here. I want to be Juju and I'm good,
Speaker 3: You're not going to get rid of me.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they don't want to leave, but they can't stay.
Speaker 2: There are ways to get them out. Even if they
Speaker 2: don't want to leave, there are eviction notices, so they
Speaker 2: will leave.
Speaker 3: You know what I was just reminded of. And I
Speaker 3: have to ask mm hmmm, because we've never talked about
Speaker 3: it other than the one time it came up early
Speaker 3: on and my first thought was, I'm keeping that for
Speaker 3: the podcast. One day you admitted that you had a
Speaker 3: relation relationship with a ghost. Can you talk about it? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: tell me the full meet cute or whatever they call it.
Speaker 3: I want to know the rom com How did you
Speaker 3: meet and how did you break up?
Speaker 2: So I will say that the relationship wasn't necessarily consensual
Speaker 2: ishes it gets mixy. So basically there would be times
Speaker 2: when I would just be alone, like in my apartment
Speaker 2: this was years ago, and I would feel like an
Speaker 2: energy of someone like on me, touching me, around me,
Speaker 2: cuddling me.
Speaker 1: I'm getting so.
Speaker 2: Deep and even like sometimes just randomly like coming to organism,
Speaker 2: like while I'm home, just hanging out, chilling mind in
Speaker 2: my business. And it was to the point where I'm like,
Speaker 2: I think that there's a spirit or something being with me,
Speaker 2: like and having sex with me. And it was good.
Speaker 2: So I was kind of gagged a little bit because
Speaker 2: so good. It was very strange, I know, but I
Speaker 2: saw it.
Speaker 1: This is real.
Speaker 2: So I called my spiritual godfather at the time and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm having this experience. I know this sounds wild.
Speaker 2: He's like, no, I think you have a spirit husband husband.
Speaker 2: Let me go divine on it. So like divination is
Speaker 2: when we're going to the spirits, we're doing the things,
Speaker 2: we're con toulting the spirits we can trust, so the
Speaker 2: spirits we contrust her, Like, yes, she has a spirit husband.
Speaker 2: And this is someone that apparently I was married to
Speaker 2: in a previous life and we were together, we were
Speaker 2: together in heaven whatever. Then I left. I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: maybe I gotta go to the earth. I gotta live
Speaker 2: out my life. We have to break up, and he
Speaker 2: was like, no, we're still together. So he's been with
Speaker 2: me throughout my life, you know, protecting me or whatever,
Speaker 2: but not until at that time he started wanting to be.
Speaker 1: With me again like that, oh wow.
Speaker 2: And at that time I was having a lot of
Speaker 2: really bad relationships like with actual real human beings, like
Speaker 2: they kept getting ruined or like random things would happen
Speaker 2: that would just like my relationship. They were just havoc.
Speaker 2: All of them were just wreaking havoc. The spirits were like,
Speaker 2: he's causing havoc. He doesn't want to see you with
Speaker 2: anybody else. He doesn't want you dating. He wants you
Speaker 2: to hisself. And as long as you like don't date
Speaker 2: anybody else, like he'll make sure that you, you know, have success,
Speaker 2: you know, you have money, you have everything you want.
Speaker 2: You just can't ever be with anyone else. And I
Speaker 2: was like, absolutely not, we need to break up.
Speaker 3: Well, you don't even know what he looks like.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what he looks like. I mean
Speaker 2: the sex is good, but like this is kind of weird. Like, no,
Speaker 2: this is too much for me. I know, I'm a
Speaker 2: googlele bitch for this. So I had to go through
Speaker 2: a whole like initiation to divorce, offerings, libations, prayers. I mean,
Speaker 2: this was with a group of people basically divorcing myself
Speaker 2: from this spirit.
Speaker 1: What after that happened it stopped?
Speaker 3: Was there a prenup?
Speaker 2: There's always a prenup? Baby, I also had to receive
Speaker 2: another shrine. I have a shrine that kind of protects
Speaker 2: me from that specifically.
Speaker 3: So when these encounters would happen, were you able to
Speaker 3: be like, I'm in the mood for my husband to
Speaker 3: come over tonight and like call him up, or would
Speaker 3: it just always be like a sneak attack. There was
Speaker 3: a short.
Speaker 2: Period where I was like, well, maybe I just see
Speaker 2: what this is about. Honestly, I was like, I mean
Speaker 2: he's protecting me, he's been with he's loyal. I've needed
Speaker 2: somewhat loyal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, things are going.
Speaker 2: Well in my life. Sometimes I was like, well, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm lonely, Like what you doing?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: I would, but.
Speaker 2: Not in a sense of like trying to like have
Speaker 2: sex or necessarily, but like I don't know. I did
Speaker 2: have a relationship with a spirit, like a romantic relationship.
Speaker 2: It wasn't fully consensual, but there were times where I
Speaker 2: was like I was open to it for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't feel bad about it.
Speaker 2: I just was like, I'm not I can't know. It's
Speaker 2: a little too much for me where let's get divorced.
Speaker 3: When I hear like these sexual encounters that people have
Speaker 3: with ghosts, the first thing I always think of is
Speaker 3: the consent aspect of it, because it seems like you
Speaker 3: wouldn't be able to. But then again, a lot of
Speaker 3: the time that I hear about this, people say it's
Speaker 3: amazing it is that maybe they didn't ask for it.
Speaker 3: But and I'm sure that a lot of times people
Speaker 3: are like, is this really happening or is this just
Speaker 3: in my mind? Like right, They're just kind of there
Speaker 3: for whatever's happening, and then later on they're like, I
Speaker 3: think that was a ghost.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly. I'm like, maybe I'm just like really freaky,
Speaker 2: like maybe this is me. Maybe I just have some
Speaker 2: kind of imagination. It was like, no, it kept happening
Speaker 2: around the same time, night after night.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we know that he's single, he's single, he's loyal.
Speaker 3: What do I gotta do?
Speaker 1: Maybe I call him.
Speaker 2: I don't know what he's up to. After I went
Speaker 2: through that ritual, wants to get rid of him. I
Speaker 2: really have not heard from him, so he could have
Speaker 2: moved on. I don't know. He might not be single,
Speaker 2: but he stayed with me for clearly hundreds of years.
Speaker 3: So wow, that is commitment.
Speaker 1: Commitment.
Speaker 3: Oh that's kind of hot.
Speaker 2: But was ruining my relationship. But I will say this
Speaker 2: is a lot more common than people think. And even
Speaker 2: if a spirit is not having sex with you, various
Speaker 2: traditions throughout the world have some concept of explaining this
Speaker 2: very thing, like a spirit partner.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting.
Speaker 2: So if your relationships are kind of messed up, it
Speaker 2: could be you, but it could be your spirit partner
Speaker 2: sabotaging your love life.
Speaker 3: Never know, interesting or yeah, or it could just be
Speaker 3: you are horrible at dating people.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, one more question I have about that is
Speaker 3: there are ways to sort of conjure up these experiences, right,
Speaker 3: Like can't people invite this sort of a thing, because
Speaker 3: that's what I was thinking of when you were talking
Speaker 3: about the possession, Like you can you can have like
Speaker 3: these welcome possessions. And I know people talk about things
Speaker 3: like astral projection, like there's certain practices that you can
Speaker 3: work on and build and so do you believe that
Speaker 3: the same thing goes with friends with benefits from the
Speaker 3: other side?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean you can summon anything. You can
Speaker 2: summon anything, so yeah, you can summon spirit sex. I
Speaker 2: don't recommend it, but cause you just never know. But yeah,
Speaker 2: and I think people do sud me. I feel like
Speaker 2: I've read or seen something on TV of someone who
Speaker 2: maybe summoned a ghost and got married to.
Speaker 1: It or something like that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but yeah, a lot of times those people
Speaker 2: are summoning that energy.
Speaker 3: See. That's what I'm afraid of, is like, you can't
Speaker 3: control it the way you can a real man. Okay,
Speaker 3: at least me I can control. I can have a
Speaker 3: man wrapped around my finger, perious. Okay. However, with a
Speaker 3: ghost man, this is what it would happen to me.
Speaker 3: It would be like some horrible eighties comedy movie where
Speaker 3: I would be in a business meeting and then that's
Speaker 3: when he would show up. And I would be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: so according to the records, that's what would happen to me.
Speaker 3: I can I can tell you right now. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: it says here in the second quarter of the year.
Speaker 3: I know that that's how it would be, and I'm
Speaker 3: not happy about that. So if I can find a
Speaker 3: man that can stick to a strict schedule, or if
Speaker 3: you can find one for me, because I know you
Speaker 3: know a lot of people on the other side, I'm
Speaker 3: fine with it. I'm here for all of that, and
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: Okay, give me your qualifications.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, I will Juju. This is pretty much
Speaker 3: yet this has been great.
Speaker 1: So great, this was fine.
Speaker 3: It's such a crazy thing that we were found, we
Speaker 3: were put together, and we've had such a cool experience.
Speaker 3: And I feel so safe around you. I will say,
Speaker 3: you're on my roster of people that I have. If
Speaker 3: some shit goes down, okay, with the other side, I'm
Speaker 3: calling you up, whether you like it or not. So
Speaker 3: in that sense, I feel very safe. All these times
Speaker 3: I've been in these haunted house locations, I'm like, if
Speaker 3: Juju's here, I'm fine. So like it or not, you're
Speaker 3: a part of this over here.
Speaker 1: We're in it to win it, honey, gladly anytime.
Speaker 3: And now we're about to be a TV stars together.
Speaker 3: How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel pretty good about it because I
Speaker 2: feel like it's part of all of our destinies to
Speaker 2: have this happen.
Speaker 1: So it's like good.
Speaker 2: But also, you know a lot of things come with
Speaker 2: it and you can't prepare for it like you can,
Speaker 2: but you can't. So I'm just kind of just being
Speaker 2: open to the experience and hopefully we can just keep
Speaker 2: talking to the dead people and the ghosts and the spirits.
Speaker 1: I'll be good. I'll be good with that. I'll be
Speaker 1: good with that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, tell people where they can find you and all
Speaker 3: the things that you do.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, you can find me on pretty much everything
Speaker 2: at it s j u j u b a e
Speaker 2: ith jiuju Bai.
Speaker 1: I also have a podcast.
Speaker 2: We're currently on hiatus, but if you are interested in
Speaker 2: learning more about the hoodoos and the voodoo and some
Speaker 2: of the orisha and the shrines and all the spiritual
Speaker 2: stuff I've been talking about. It's called a Little Juju Podcast,
Speaker 2: so you can check that out wherever streaming is.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2: Working on a book that comes out right now. It's
Speaker 2: projected of spring twenty four, so we've got a little
Speaker 2: bit of time. But I actually just turned in my
Speaker 2: manuscript today, first draft of my manuscript, so that's wonderful.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'll have things. Just follow me.
Speaker 2: It's Jujube or jujuba on everything jj bae. I might
Speaker 2: be doing readings, I might not. I'm off and on
Speaker 2: and living for the dead. Huney for the dead. Honey,
Speaker 2: we're living for the dead.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks g thank you, Rosie.
Speaker 1: This was fun.
Speaker 3: Ah, thank you so much. Juju Bai, isn't she something?
Speaker 3: She is somebody that can make me laugh so hard
Speaker 3: because she's not she's not like me. She's not on
Speaker 3: these people that's always just running their mouth. She is
Speaker 3: one of those people that when she talks, oh my god,
Speaker 3: it counts the same goes with her humor. She will
Speaker 3: just be sitting quiet, all of us, you know, little
Speaker 3: roosters and hands are clucking away, and then all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, Juju will say one thing and it's the
Speaker 3: funniest thing we've ever heard. And so many times when
Speaker 3: we were working together, she just killed me. So go
Speaker 3: check out all the things that she does, because she's
Speaker 3: truly incredible. And who knows, maybe you could even get
Speaker 3: a reading from the iconic Jujubai one day. Yeah, guys,
Speaker 3: all right, well, next week I'm going to be talking
Speaker 3: to Alex LeMay, who is again the technical ghost hunter
Speaker 3: of the group, you know, the one that does great
Speaker 3: with all the machinery and the technological stuff. So uh,
Speaker 3: we'll get to that next week. I love you all,
Speaker 3: both living and dead. But if I didn't ask you
Speaker 3: to haunt me, don't haunt me.
Speaker 1: Came back.
Speaker 3: This has been an exactly right production. Want to share
Speaker 3: your paranormal experience on the podcast. I read stories out
Speaker 3: loud and sometimes I'll even call you, so email me
Speaker 3: at ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com. You can
Speaker 3: send a DM or voice message to the show's Instagram
Speaker 3: at ghosted by Roz. Give us a follow while you're there,
Speaker 3: and follow me Roz on Instagram at Roz Hernandez, and
Speaker 3: on TikTok and Twitter at It's Roz Hernandez. My senior
Speaker 3: producer is the startling Jiha Lee. Associate producer is the
Speaker 3: alarming Alex Cheen. This episode was mixed and sound designed
Speaker 3: by the eerie Edson Choi. My guest booker is the
Speaker 3: petrifying Patrick Kuttner. Additional production support from the hair raising
Speaker 3: Hannah Kyle Krichten. My theme music is by the spine
Speaker 3: chilling Brendan Lynch Salomon. Artwork by the Spooky Vanessa Lilac.
Speaker 3: Photography by the terrifying Elizabeth Karen. Executive produced by the
Speaker 3: Chilling Karen Kilgarriff, the Spooky Georgia hart Stark, and the
Speaker 3: Frightening Danielle Kramer