Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia podcast. I'm Doug Krisner.
Speaker 2: You can join Brian Curtis and myself for the stories,
Speaker 2: making news and moving markets in the APAC region. You
Speaker 2: can subscribe to the show anywhere you get your podcast
Speaker 2: and always on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business app.
Speaker 3: Well, today marks the twenty seventh year of Hong Kong
Speaker 3: being handed over to China. And joining us now in
Speaker 3: our studios is Emily Lao, who is a Hong Kong
Speaker 3: Democratic Party member, a former chair of the Democratic Party
Speaker 3: and a former legislator here in Hong Kong, serving for
Speaker 3: some twenty five years or so, joining us in our
Speaker 3: studios to talk a little bit more about what is
Speaker 3: establishment day. Emily, What does establishment day mean to you
Speaker 3: at this point in time?
Speaker 4: Well, I feel very sad and distressed because many of
Speaker 4: my friends and party members are languishing in prison, some
Speaker 4: are waiting for a sentence. The trial has gone on
Speaker 4: for a long long time. They've been locked up for
Speaker 4: over three years, and of course civil society in Hong
Speaker 4: Kong has more or less collapsed in a sense that
Speaker 4: many media outlets have closed down, journalists are either in
Speaker 4: prison or have fled overseas, or are not willing to
Speaker 4: do the job anymore. And my party is just surviving.
Speaker 4: We were not allowed to take part in the district
Speaker 4: council election last year. We could not get permit to
Speaker 4: do fundraising by selling refel tickets, and we can't even
Speaker 4: have banquets for members and friends. And of course both
Speaker 4: my members are in prison. And other parties some have
Speaker 4: closed down, and there are no demonstrations, no marchers, no
Speaker 4: public assembly anymore.
Speaker 1: That was what Hong Kong was once famous for. If
Speaker 1: you go and look at.
Speaker 4: The Lonely Planet, this guide for tourists, they urge people
Speaker 4: to come to Hong Kong, this tiny.
Speaker 1: City, so vibrant, so safe, so free.
Speaker 4: Many demonstrations every day, all peaceful and orderly, even musical,
Speaker 4: but no more.
Speaker 1: Very sad.
Speaker 2: So the tipping point seems to have been twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: when Beijing proposed the Extradition Bill, right, and then we
Speaker 2: got the National Security Law, which obviously now sits above
Speaker 2: Hong Kong's basic law. Do you think it can get
Speaker 2: much worse than what we're seeing right now?
Speaker 1: Of course it's possible. If you look around the world.
Speaker 4: I mean, many people are in cuations which are much
Speaker 4: much worse off than us, and people are being killed,
Speaker 4: their bombs exploding everywhere, people are giving locktop, there's femine,
Speaker 4: there's genocide. So I mean the list is very long,
Speaker 4: and if we look around us, we are not on
Speaker 4: the top of the list. I mean, look at Gaza,
Speaker 4: look at Ukraine, look at me and mah Cambodia, Sudan, Afghanistan.
Speaker 4: I mean the list is very long. But of course
Speaker 4: we don't want things to deteriorate. And I'm still here
Speaker 4: sitting here. People kept asking me why I haven't been arrested. Well,
Speaker 4: I just think that we want to tell President Si Jinping,
Speaker 4: especially on this very important day, that the situation has
Speaker 4: calmed down. I do not support my party did not
Speaker 4: support what happened in two or one nine or the
Speaker 4: violence and all that on whatever side. But the situation
Speaker 4: has come down. We've got the National Security Law, We've
Speaker 4: got a basic law are to go twenty three legislation.
Speaker 4: So the authorities here but especially those in Beijing must
Speaker 4: feel confident that you know, the situation is under control,
Speaker 4: and they can start giving the people, allowing the people
Speaker 4: to enjoy more freedoms, the freedoms that were enshrined in
Speaker 4: the Sign of British Joint Declaration and the Basic Law,
Speaker 4: and the freedoms that we've enjoyed for many years after
Speaker 4: nineteen seven.
Speaker 3: Certainly you mentioned the loss of civil society and there's
Speaker 3: no political opposition. You mentioned that a couple of other considerations.
Speaker 3: Freedom of the press, for sure, that has diminished, and
Speaker 3: also the rule of law and some of the comments
Speaker 3: made by Lord Sumption and some of the other judges
Speaker 3: that resign from the Court of Final Appeal are troubling.
Speaker 3: Do you think that that companies' businesses will start to
Speaker 3: rethink plans to be here in Hong Kong because of that.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not an expert on what these companies think,
Speaker 4: but I've spoken to people and they would like to
Speaker 4: have the rule of law. And when the Financial Secretary
Speaker 4: Poor Chan, when he traveled to America, to Europe and
Speaker 4: other places to sell Hong Kong to try to attract
Speaker 4: investors to come to Hong Kong, the first thing he
Speaker 4: talked about was the rule of law. He knows that
Speaker 4: that's very much on the mind of these money people.
Speaker 4: And then the first thing he said is, oh, look
Speaker 4: at us. We are the only place on earth which
Speaker 4: has foreign judges sitting on our Court of Final Appeal,
Speaker 4: and the Court of Final Appeal can find the government wrong.
Speaker 4: We have been defeated in the court, so you see
Speaker 4: they are so independent. Well, I hope that it's true,
Speaker 4: and I hope that my people, my friends languishing in
Speaker 4: prison and their relatives and friends will agree. And of
Speaker 4: course I hope the Hong Kong people and the judges
Speaker 4: local and foreign, will also agree with mister Chan. And
Speaker 4: if that's the case, then of course we will see
Speaker 4: more foreign business people or people, tourists, students, all of
Speaker 4: them coming to Hong Kong. But now I don't think
Speaker 4: we are seeing that many.
Speaker 2: Obviously, you are still there, Emily. You mentioned a moment
Speaker 2: ago that many people have asked you why there has
Speaker 2: been some brain drained. There have been a number of
Speaker 2: people who have left. I mean, can you describe what
Speaker 2: that's looked like from your perspective.
Speaker 4: Well, it's very very sad, and I saw some report
Speaker 4: recently about the number of Hong Kong people in the UK.
Speaker 4: This is mainly because of their Prime Minister Boris Johnson's
Speaker 4: and the Parliament's decision to have this be an old
Speaker 4: scheme which allow people who hold the British National Overseas
Speaker 4: Passport or that identity to go to the UK to
Speaker 4: live for five years and then they can on the
Speaker 4: sixth year they can begin to app life for British citizenship.
Speaker 4: So that makes it much easier for people to go there,
Speaker 4: and the reports that we're talking about two hundred thousand
Speaker 4: or more people who have gone there, but many have
Speaker 4: also gone to Canada and even Australia because they have
Speaker 4: made the immigration thing much easier for Hong Kong young
Speaker 4: people and many of the people who.
Speaker 1: Have left educated people.
Speaker 4: They have money, and they are the backbone of the economy.
Speaker 4: They are the middle class people, and they are professionals,
Speaker 4: very well educated. So just imagine if a society suddenly
Speaker 4: loses so many of these people. That's why the government
Speaker 4: has schemes to attract talents from overseas and mainland China, but.
Speaker 1: It will take a very long time.
Speaker 4: To attract the right people the right education, and so
Speaker 4: it's not easy at all.
Speaker 3: Emily, I'm curious about the few mature in your thoughts
Speaker 3: of it and whether or not Hong Kong can bounce back.
Speaker 3: You know, we always said, don't ever bet against Hong
Speaker 3: Kong because it showed over fifty sixty seventy years the
Speaker 3: ability to reinvent itself. Is that sort of spirit still
Speaker 3: there in your mind? Or is Hong Kong being hauled out? No?
Speaker 4: I don't think the game is over, although some people
Speaker 4: do think so and they have left, and even those
Speaker 4: who are here they feel very, very distressed and they
Speaker 4: are quite unhappy with the situation. Well, I think the
Speaker 4: most important thing apart from Hong Kong people having the stamina,
Speaker 4: having the determination to make it work. But all along,
Speaker 4: all these years, the major factor that would make Hong
Speaker 4: Kong one country, to a system and all these things
Speaker 4: prosper is on the part of Beijing. It's self censorship
Speaker 4: by the central government, and they exercise quite a bit
Speaker 4: since from nineteen ninety seven, for quite a number of years,
Speaker 4: they left Hong Kong alone. Well, maybe they trusted the
Speaker 4: government then and they really did so. I hope Ci
Speaker 4: Jinping Presidentcy Jimping now realized that things have settled down.
Speaker 4: I know their top concern is national security, and I
Speaker 4: hope they will come to realize that Hong Kong no
Speaker 4: longer poses a threat to national security, and I hope
Speaker 4: we will be.
Speaker 1: Given a chance.
Speaker 2: I think at the same time, Beijing is very concerned
Speaker 2: about economic growth, and Brian was making the point earlier
Speaker 2: in the program about perhaps the recognition that Hong Kong
Speaker 2: is very much a part still of China's growth story.
Speaker 2: Do you think Beijing is aware of that at all?
Speaker 4: Well, I would like to think so, but I've met people,
Speaker 4: you know, who kept telling me that, well, that's no
Speaker 4: longer or hasn't maybe has never been Beijing's top concern.
Speaker 4: Their top concern now is national security. So if they
Speaker 4: feel that it's under threat, anything else can be sacrificed.
Speaker 4: And I think it would be a big shame for
Speaker 4: Beijing to say, Okay, we'll let Hong Kong go, because
Speaker 4: Hong Kong has prospered for so long, and Hong Kong has,
Speaker 4: you know, contributed to the country's development, and Hong Kong
Speaker 4: people and many Chinese people, mainland Chinese, rich educated people,
Speaker 4: they like to come here with their children, they like
Speaker 4: to go to our schools. Of course, some use this
Speaker 4: as a stepping stone to go overseas, but they like
Speaker 4: it here. So I hope the people in Beijing and
Speaker 4: other people in the country would recognize that it would
Speaker 4: be a great pity to just kill off Hong Kong.
Speaker 3: On the practical side, aside from allowing more freedoms, what
Speaker 3: would you like to see, what sort of policy would
Speaker 3: you like to see from Beijing to help stimulate Hong Kong.
Speaker 1: Well, to get its mojo back.
Speaker 4: Well, apart from all these things about stimulating the economy,
Speaker 4: which some people think, you know they're not working that
Speaker 4: well because you see many empty restaurants and vacant shops
Speaker 4: because many people have gone north to shop.
Speaker 1: To eat and all that.
Speaker 4: But what we need as a civilized society is prurarity diversity.
Speaker 4: Not that I'm saying, oh, they should allow the Democratic
Speaker 4: Party to take part in elections, of course they should,
Speaker 4: but they should allow others to take part in elections,
Speaker 4: to show tolerance that Hong Kong is a place that
Speaker 4: people with different views can coexist peacefully, and that's what
Speaker 4: we did in the past. It's not as if I'm
Speaker 4: asking for something from the moon. So this is important
Speaker 4: so that business people, professional people, they understand that this
Speaker 4: is a place that tolerate difference of opinion be respected,
Speaker 4: you will not be arrested, and you will not be
Speaker 4: thrown into prison.
Speaker 3: So important. Emily, thanks so much for coming in. We
Speaker 3: enjoyed the chat. Emily Lao, who was a former chairperson
Speaker 3: of the Democratic Party, and I would have to say
Speaker 3: probably one of the three or four most influential legislators
Speaker 3: over the past twenty five thirty years, certainly that I've
Speaker 3: been here.
Speaker 2: This has been the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia podcast, bringing you
Speaker 2: the stories making news and moving markets in the Asia Pacific.
Speaker 2: Visit the Bloomberg Podcast channel on YouTube to get more
Speaker 2: episodes of this and other shows from Bloomberg. Subscribe to
Speaker 2: the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen,
Speaker 2: and always on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business app.