WEBVTT - Hong Kong's Establishment Day

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia podcast. I'm Doug Krisner.

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<v Speaker 2>You can join Brian Curtis and myself for the stories,

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<v Speaker 2>making news and moving markets in the APAC region. You

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<v Speaker 2>can subscribe to the show anywhere you get your podcast

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<v Speaker 2>and always on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg Business app.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, today marks the twenty seventh year of Hong Kong

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<v Speaker 3>being handed over to China. And joining us now in

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<v Speaker 3>our studios is Emily Lao, who is a Hong Kong

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<v Speaker 3>Democratic Party member, a former chair of the Democratic Party

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<v Speaker 3>and a former legislator here in Hong Kong, serving for

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<v Speaker 3>some twenty five years or so, joining us in our

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<v Speaker 3>studios to talk a little bit more about what is

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<v Speaker 3>establishment day. Emily, What does establishment day mean to you

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<v Speaker 3>at this point in time?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I feel very sad and distressed because many of

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<v Speaker 4>my friends and party members are languishing in prison, some

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<v Speaker 4>are waiting for a sentence. The trial has gone on

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<v Speaker 4>for a long long time. They've been locked up for

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<v Speaker 4>over three years, and of course civil society in Hong

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<v Speaker 4>Kong has more or less collapsed in a sense that

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<v Speaker 4>many media outlets have closed down, journalists are either in

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<v Speaker 4>prison or have fled overseas, or are not willing to

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<v Speaker 4>do the job anymore. And my party is just surviving.

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<v Speaker 4>We were not allowed to take part in the district

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<v Speaker 4>council election last year. We could not get permit to

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<v Speaker 4>do fundraising by selling refel tickets, and we can't even

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<v Speaker 4>have banquets for members and friends. And of course both

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<v Speaker 4>my members are in prison. And other parties some have

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<v Speaker 4>closed down, and there are no demonstrations, no marchers, no

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<v Speaker 4>public assembly anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>That was what Hong Kong was once famous for. If

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<v Speaker 1>you go and look at.

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<v Speaker 4>The Lonely Planet, this guide for tourists, they urge people

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<v Speaker 4>to come to Hong Kong, this tiny.

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<v Speaker 1>City, so vibrant, so safe, so free.

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<v Speaker 4>Many demonstrations every day, all peaceful and orderly, even musical,

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<v Speaker 4>but no more.

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<v Speaker 1>Very sad.

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<v Speaker 2>So the tipping point seems to have been twenty nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>when Beijing proposed the Extradition Bill, right, and then we

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<v Speaker 2>got the National Security Law, which obviously now sits above

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<v Speaker 2>Hong Kong's basic law. Do you think it can get

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<v Speaker 2>much worse than what we're seeing right now?

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<v Speaker 1>Of course it's possible. If you look around the world.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, many people are in cuations which are much

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<v Speaker 4>much worse off than us, and people are being killed,

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<v Speaker 4>their bombs exploding everywhere, people are giving locktop, there's femine,

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<v Speaker 4>there's genocide. So I mean the list is very long,

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<v Speaker 4>and if we look around us, we are not on

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<v Speaker 4>the top of the list. I mean, look at Gaza,

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<v Speaker 4>look at Ukraine, look at me and mah Cambodia, Sudan, Afghanistan.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean the list is very long. But of course

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<v Speaker 4>we don't want things to deteriorate. And I'm still here

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<v Speaker 4>sitting here. People kept asking me why I haven't been arrested. Well,

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<v Speaker 4>I just think that we want to tell President Si Jinping,

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<v Speaker 4>especially on this very important day, that the situation has

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<v Speaker 4>calmed down. I do not support my party did not

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<v Speaker 4>support what happened in two or one nine or the

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<v Speaker 4>violence and all that on whatever side. But the situation

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<v Speaker 4>has come down. We've got the National Security Law, We've

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<v Speaker 4>got a basic law are to go twenty three legislation.

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<v Speaker 4>So the authorities here but especially those in Beijing must

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<v Speaker 4>feel confident that you know, the situation is under control,

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<v Speaker 4>and they can start giving the people, allowing the people

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<v Speaker 4>to enjoy more freedoms, the freedoms that were enshrined in

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<v Speaker 4>the Sign of British Joint Declaration and the Basic Law,

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<v Speaker 4>and the freedoms that we've enjoyed for many years after

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen seven.

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<v Speaker 3>Certainly you mentioned the loss of civil society and there's

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<v Speaker 3>no political opposition. You mentioned that a couple of other considerations.

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<v Speaker 3>Freedom of the press, for sure, that has diminished, and

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<v Speaker 3>also the rule of law and some of the comments

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<v Speaker 3>made by Lord Sumption and some of the other judges

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<v Speaker 3>that resign from the Court of Final Appeal are troubling.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think that that companies' businesses will start to

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<v Speaker 3>rethink plans to be here in Hong Kong because of that.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I'm not an expert on what these companies think,

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<v Speaker 4>but I've spoken to people and they would like to

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<v Speaker 4>have the rule of law. And when the Financial Secretary

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<v Speaker 4>Poor Chan, when he traveled to America, to Europe and

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<v Speaker 4>other places to sell Hong Kong to try to attract

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<v Speaker 4>investors to come to Hong Kong, the first thing he

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<v Speaker 4>talked about was the rule of law. He knows that

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<v Speaker 4>that's very much on the mind of these money people.

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<v Speaker 4>And then the first thing he said is, oh, look

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<v Speaker 4>at us. We are the only place on earth which

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<v Speaker 4>has foreign judges sitting on our Court of Final Appeal,

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<v Speaker 4>and the Court of Final Appeal can find the government wrong.

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<v Speaker 4>We have been defeated in the court, so you see

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<v Speaker 4>they are so independent. Well, I hope that it's true,

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<v Speaker 4>and I hope that my people, my friends languishing in

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<v Speaker 4>prison and their relatives and friends will agree. And of

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<v Speaker 4>course I hope the Hong Kong people and the judges

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<v Speaker 4>local and foreign, will also agree with mister Chan. And

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<v Speaker 4>if that's the case, then of course we will see

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<v Speaker 4>more foreign business people or people, tourists, students, all of

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<v Speaker 4>them coming to Hong Kong. But now I don't think

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<v Speaker 4>we are seeing that many.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously, you are still there, Emily. You mentioned a moment

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<v Speaker 2>ago that many people have asked you why there has

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<v Speaker 2>been some brain drained. There have been a number of

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<v Speaker 2>people who have left. I mean, can you describe what

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<v Speaker 2>that's looked like from your perspective.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, it's very very sad, and I saw some report

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<v Speaker 4>recently about the number of Hong Kong people in the UK.

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<v Speaker 4>This is mainly because of their Prime Minister Boris Johnson's

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<v Speaker 4>and the Parliament's decision to have this be an old

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<v Speaker 4>scheme which allow people who hold the British National Overseas

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<v Speaker 4>Passport or that identity to go to the UK to

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<v Speaker 4>live for five years and then they can on the

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<v Speaker 4>sixth year they can begin to app life for British citizenship.

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<v Speaker 4>So that makes it much easier for people to go there,

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<v Speaker 4>and the reports that we're talking about two hundred thousand

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<v Speaker 4>or more people who have gone there, but many have

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<v Speaker 4>also gone to Canada and even Australia because they have

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<v Speaker 4>made the immigration thing much easier for Hong Kong young

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<v Speaker 4>people and many of the people who.

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<v Speaker 1>Have left educated people.

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<v Speaker 4>They have money, and they are the backbone of the economy.

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<v Speaker 4>They are the middle class people, and they are professionals,

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<v Speaker 4>very well educated. So just imagine if a society suddenly

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<v Speaker 4>loses so many of these people. That's why the government

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<v Speaker 4>has schemes to attract talents from overseas and mainland China, but.

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<v Speaker 1>It will take a very long time.

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<v Speaker 4>To attract the right people the right education, and so

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<v Speaker 4>it's not easy at all.

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<v Speaker 3>Emily, I'm curious about the few mature in your thoughts

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<v Speaker 3>of it and whether or not Hong Kong can bounce back.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we always said, don't ever bet against Hong

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<v Speaker 3>Kong because it showed over fifty sixty seventy years the

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<v Speaker 3>ability to reinvent itself. Is that sort of spirit still

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<v Speaker 3>there in your mind? Or is Hong Kong being hauled out? No?

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think the game is over, although some people

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<v Speaker 4>do think so and they have left, and even those

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<v Speaker 4>who are here they feel very, very distressed and they

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<v Speaker 4>are quite unhappy with the situation. Well, I think the

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<v Speaker 4>most important thing apart from Hong Kong people having the stamina,

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<v Speaker 4>having the determination to make it work. But all along,

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<v Speaker 4>all these years, the major factor that would make Hong

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<v Speaker 4>Kong one country, to a system and all these things

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<v Speaker 4>prosper is on the part of Beijing. It's self censorship

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<v Speaker 4>by the central government, and they exercise quite a bit

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<v Speaker 4>since from nineteen ninety seven, for quite a number of years,

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<v Speaker 4>they left Hong Kong alone. Well, maybe they trusted the

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<v Speaker 4>government then and they really did so. I hope Ci

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<v Speaker 4>Jinping Presidentcy Jimping now realized that things have settled down.

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<v Speaker 4>I know their top concern is national security, and I

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<v Speaker 4>hope they will come to realize that Hong Kong no

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<v Speaker 4>longer poses a threat to national security, and I hope

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<v Speaker 4>we will be.

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<v Speaker 1>Given a chance.

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<v Speaker 2>I think at the same time, Beijing is very concerned

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<v Speaker 2>about economic growth, and Brian was making the point earlier

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<v Speaker 2>in the program about perhaps the recognition that Hong Kong

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<v Speaker 2>is very much a part still of China's growth story.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think Beijing is aware of that at all?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I would like to think so, but I've met people,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, who kept telling me that, well, that's no

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<v Speaker 4>longer or hasn't maybe has never been Beijing's top concern.

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<v Speaker 4>Their top concern now is national security. So if they

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<v Speaker 4>feel that it's under threat, anything else can be sacrificed.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think it would be a big shame for

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<v Speaker 4>Beijing to say, Okay, we'll let Hong Kong go, because

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<v Speaker 4>Hong Kong has prospered for so long, and Hong Kong has,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, contributed to the country's development, and Hong Kong

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<v Speaker 4>people and many Chinese people, mainland Chinese, rich educated people,

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<v Speaker 4>they like to come here with their children, they like

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<v Speaker 4>to go to our schools. Of course, some use this

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<v Speaker 4>as a stepping stone to go overseas, but they like

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<v Speaker 4>it here. So I hope the people in Beijing and

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<v Speaker 4>other people in the country would recognize that it would

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<v Speaker 4>be a great pity to just kill off Hong Kong.

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<v Speaker 3>On the practical side, aside from allowing more freedoms, what

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<v Speaker 3>would you like to see, what sort of policy would

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<v Speaker 3>you like to see from Beijing to help stimulate Hong Kong.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, to get its mojo back.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, apart from all these things about stimulating the economy,

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<v Speaker 4>which some people think, you know they're not working that

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<v Speaker 4>well because you see many empty restaurants and vacant shops

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<v Speaker 4>because many people have gone north to shop.

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<v Speaker 1>To eat and all that.

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<v Speaker 4>But what we need as a civilized society is prurarity diversity.

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<v Speaker 4>Not that I'm saying, oh, they should allow the Democratic

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<v Speaker 4>Party to take part in elections, of course they should,

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<v Speaker 4>but they should allow others to take part in elections,

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<v Speaker 4>to show tolerance that Hong Kong is a place that

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<v Speaker 4>people with different views can coexist peacefully, and that's what

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<v Speaker 4>we did in the past. It's not as if I'm

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<v Speaker 4>asking for something from the moon. So this is important

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<v Speaker 4>so that business people, professional people, they understand that this

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<v Speaker 4>is a place that tolerate difference of opinion be respected,

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<v Speaker 4>you will not be arrested, and you will not be

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<v Speaker 4>thrown into prison.

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<v Speaker 3>So important. Emily, thanks so much for coming in. We

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<v Speaker 3>enjoyed the chat. Emily Lao, who was a former chairperson

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<v Speaker 3>of the Democratic Party, and I would have to say

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<v Speaker 3>probably one of the three or four most influential legislators

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<v Speaker 3>over the past twenty five thirty years, certainly that I've

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<v Speaker 3>been here.

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<v Speaker 2>This has been the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia podcast, bringing you

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<v Speaker 2>the stories making news and moving markets in the Asia Pacific.

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