1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports. The cold heart truth 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: about the Olympic journey is not really been financially incentivized 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: in the same way that many of the professional sports are. 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: But this is a basketball involved nb A, Glibolls are 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: licensing arm thing for fifty All of those things will 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: make up what that looks like money in sports. It's 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I enjoy you on Money 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: Night Countdown. Let's talk about some of the more interesting 9 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: aspects of business of sports. When you're talking sports, discipline 10 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: is the bridge from being good to ultimately being great 11 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: at whatever it is that you're trying to be your 12 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: accomplished as your profession. Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 13 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, a wee 14 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: explore the big money issues in the world of sports. 15 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: Michael Lar, I'm Scarlett fo Coming up, We're talking lots 16 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: of baseball with author and ESPN senior writer Howard Bryant. 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: He released his tenth book, Ricky, The Length and Legend 18 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: of an American Original on baseball legend Rickey Henderson. Last, 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: we'll talk with him about the current state of game 20 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: coming out of the All Star break and heading towards 21 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: the trade deadline. I'm excited for a conversation with Howard Bryant. 22 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: His book on Ricky Henderson really goes beyond the blockbuster 23 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: numbers that Ricky put up in his long career. It 24 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: touches on his impact. It really digs into his impact 25 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: in terms of diversity and sports as a black athlete, 26 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: and his impact on players salaries, which is fascinating because 27 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: he was really ahead of his time. He's also in 28 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: a group of legendary athletes that played in the Bay Area, 29 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: which made me think of one of our own here 30 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg, Seth Magdalener. Seth is a producer who has 31 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: a very unique background in baseball, especially in the Bay Area. 32 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: Seth produced a documentary called The Bay Area Black Aces, 33 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: and I want to bring him into the program. Seth, 34 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about 35 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: your background in baseball. I started out in baseball in 36 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: the late eighties, and UH took that all the way 37 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg, where I was producing the Sports Business Show's portfolio. 38 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: When I first joined in the network, you wrote and 39 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: produced a documentary called The Bay Area Black Aces that 40 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: won the Northern California Emmy Award as the Best Sports 41 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: Program in two thousand four. In the decade before that, 42 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: you didn't mention you actually worked for the A's organization 43 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: during Ricky Henderson's second tour of duty, and that that 44 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: will be important later on. I want you to explain 45 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: to us a little bit about the premise of your documentary, 46 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: bay Area Black Aces, because Ricky Henderson is not a pitcher, 47 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: but he's certainly a Bay Area superstar. Black Aces concept 48 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: was generated by one of the twelve African American pitchers 49 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: in history to win twenty games in a season, to 50 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: be an ace, and that was Jim Mudcat Grant, who 51 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: pitched in the nineteen fifties, sixties and seventies, and back 52 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: in the early two thousands. He was promoting the fact 53 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: that this was an exclusive baseball club, and baseball is 54 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: all about numbers and clubs, right the five hundred home 55 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: run club, the three thousand hit club, and to that 56 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: point in the early two thousands, there had only been 57 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: twelve Black pitchers to win twenty games, and and Mudcat 58 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: really wanted that to become a thing. And what I noticed, 59 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: and I had been working in the Bay Area, is 60 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: that of those twelve, four were Bay Area pitchers had 61 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: pitched for the Giants in the A's. I know there 62 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: are people whould like to make that a trivia question, 63 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: but it was Sam Jones and the Giants was the first. 64 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,399 Speaker 1: Then Vida Blue, then a fellow named Mike Norris, who 65 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: figures very much in Ricky Henderson's careers, as Howard Bryant 66 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: Howard Bryant's book makes clear, and then uh, Dave Stewart. 67 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: And so my documentary was about what made it possible 68 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: for this concentration in one in one city to take place, 69 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: and that actually since then there have been two more 70 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: in the club. C. C. Sabathia, who grew up in 71 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: Vallejo and Dontrelle Willis, who grew up in Alameda, California. 72 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: So it's really kind of a remarkable cluster. As a 73 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: child of baseball cards, I have my Vita Blue Baseball. 74 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: But again, like you said, it's it was rare to 75 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: see a black picture, you know, for every Bob Gibson, Uh, 76 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: there were not a lot of people who were and 77 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: even Bob Gibson and every one of them really had 78 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: to fight to get taken seriously in that role and Uh. 79 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, now with the way baseball has evolved, UH, 80 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: we're probably not going to see twenty game winners very 81 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: often anyway. UM. And so it's it's interesting that category 82 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: may kind of go go to history, but certainly the 83 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: the issue of race in baseball with participation now this 84 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: year down under I think it's seven point two percent 85 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: of players on big league rosters are black, and that's 86 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: down from a high of thirty five in the mid 87 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: nineties seventies. I think about that, how much it's changed. 88 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: You talked about how um four of those pictures were 89 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: from the Bay Area teams. Who are we're playing for 90 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: barrier teams and grew up in the Bay Area, the 91 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 1: East Bay specifically. Economic clusters is something we talk about 92 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: a lot in business, right, Um, Silicon Valley has a 93 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: lot of engineers, and because there's a lot of work 94 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: opportunities for them, it you have more developing in the 95 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: region as well. Why is it from where you sit 96 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: and from what you've observed, do we have this precipitous 97 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: drop off in black baseball players. Yeah, there's a lot 98 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: of studies on that. One is just in general where 99 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: the culture has gone that football and basketball have overtaken 100 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: baseball in general in the culture as and now soccer 101 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: is really close behind. And I think those games are 102 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: perceived at those sports are perceived as being more friendly. Uh, 103 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: they take less with baseball. You know you need more players. Uh, 104 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: not from football, but certainly from basketball. You know, you 105 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: can play three on three basketball and get really good 106 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: and you can't play three on three baseball. Lack of fields, 107 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: lack of mentors. Uh, those factors have certainly been discussed 108 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: and to some degree, I think, you know, just lack 109 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: of of a welcoming feeling in the game. Um. Also, 110 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, lack of college scholarships. A lot more players 111 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: now in baseball come out of college, and fewer players 112 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: who get college scholarships are from the black community. So 113 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: it's it's really complex, but but undeniable. Seth, you are 114 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: the man. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. 115 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: We really do appreciate it's so nice to join you. Thanks, 116 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: thank you, Seth up. Next on the show, More Baseball 117 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: author any ESPN senior writer Howard Bryant joins us to 118 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: talk everything m LB, plus a look at his latest 119 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: book on Ricky Henderson, Ricky The Life and Legend of 120 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: an American original that is straight ahead on the Bloomberg 121 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: Business of Sports. I'm Michael Barr. You can follow me 122 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Big Bar Sports and I'm on Twitter 123 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: at Scarlett Fool. And don't forget to catch Our podcast 124 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: has Monday's, Wednesdays and Thursdays and all your podcast platforms 125 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: right here on Bloomberg Busness of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 126 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 127 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show where we 128 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: explore the big money issues of the world of sports. 129 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm Michael Lauren, I'm Scarlett Phil. That's a big baseball 130 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: to talk about. As the MLB season heads into the 131 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: second half, let's dive straight in with the ESPN senior 132 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: writer Howard Bryant. He is also the author and released 133 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: his latest book on Ricky Henderson, Ricky The Life and 134 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: Legend of an American Original. Howard, Welcome to the Bloomberg 135 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,559 Speaker 1: Business of Sports. No, thank you for having me. First 136 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: of all, what gave you the idea to do the book? Well, 137 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: it's actually funny. I mean I think that we were 138 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: one of my one of my great friends, the late 139 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: great Pedro Gomez and I got a bunch of baseball writers. 140 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: We were doing our usual spring training thing a bunch 141 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: of years ago, and I had just finished The Last Hero, 142 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: my last biography on on Henry Aaron back in and 143 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: we were going across, you know, racking our brains, you know, 144 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: a little brains about how many people out there in 145 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: baseball could actually carry a full narrative, How many guys 146 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: out there, And we'd like to think that that number 147 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: is really big. It's actually really not that big in 148 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: terms of the number of people that you really want 149 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: to read about, and especially if you could find that 150 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: sweet spot of somebody who was big enough that can 151 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: carry a narrative, but who also was not totally tainted 152 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 1: by drugs. And I didn't feel like writing about steroids. 153 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: I wrote about steroids in my second book, Ducing the Game, 154 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and five, and it was a 155 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: really sort of a difficult thing. And we started to 156 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: think about the number of guys, and Ricky was really 157 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: sort of at the top of the list. And then 158 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: something else happened. Then in fourteen and Henry Aaron's eightieth birthday, 159 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: I was asked to present Henry at the at the 160 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: National Portrait Gallery and watching the DC. So Henry and 161 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: I did this amazing event and there were so many 162 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: Hall of Famers in the front row, and one of 163 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: them was Ricky and Rickey and Jim Right and Robin 164 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: You and all these all these Hall of Famers were there. 165 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: And we went to the Galla later that night, and 166 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: it was Ricky's wife, Pamela, who came up to me 167 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: and said, I want you to do for my husband 168 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: when he gave for Hank Garon And I said, I 169 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: didn't do anything. Hanky, he said Darren and so um. 170 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: So as the years sented to pass, I started to 171 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: really think. And a couple of years later, by twenty 172 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: seven and I really started thinking about Ricky, and I 173 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: started thinking about Rickey for another reason, and it really 174 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: started to like complete my thinking that this was going 175 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: to be the guy. I always look at sports in 176 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: the twentieth century. Sports in the twenty country is it 177 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: is the arrow of It's the century of sports. It's 178 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: where sports became a mega Business's where sports became so 179 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, he's valuable to the American culture. And it 180 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: really does go in three waves. The first wave of 181 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: sports is the is the immigration era where you have 182 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: the Industrial Revolution in the late nineteenth century, the late 183 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: late late nineteenth century, and you have a bunch of 184 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: Europeans coming to the United States and their kids really 185 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: became Americanized through sports through all their sports heroes, whether 186 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: it was Baby Blue, Greg Joe DiMaggio, and you know, 187 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: the parents didn't speak English, but the kids became American 188 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: through sports. And the second era is the integration error, 189 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: and you get into the mid fiftiees, right before the 190 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: Civil Rights Movement, the African Americans become front and center 191 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: in the culture. That baseball really was the first major 192 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: American institution to integrate. It integrated before meet most schools 193 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: integrated before, the military, integrated before corporate America. So baseball 194 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: is the stock of the integration era. And this is 195 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: the This is the third era, which is the economic era. 196 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: It's it's the money era. It's the free agent era 197 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy five after the Peter Site decision, and 198 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: now all of a sudden, the players are making super money. 199 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: And every single year there's either a strike or a 200 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: lockout in the incredible labor strikes. But the players are 201 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: now superstars and they're super rich and now they're moving 202 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: and it's not really they're moving teams and it's not 203 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: necessarily a heroic era. And I wanted to do something 204 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: on this years ago, and I couldn't get a publisher 205 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: really interested, and publishers were telling me that, well, the 206 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: money era is really not something that fans want to 207 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: hear about. It's not a it's not a happy ending 208 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: because the fans and players get so bitter to what 209 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: each other because the money is so big. And I 210 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: was like, I totally disagree with that though, I'm like, 211 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm I am really thinking that Ricky checks off a 212 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: box here because Ricky is all about money, Ricky Underson. Yet, 213 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: you could have done this book on Rickie Jackson. You 214 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: could maybe do it on Michael Jordan's. But when it 215 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: comes to a player who's total worth is defined by 216 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: pay me what I'm worth. And in this game, I'm 217 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: not comparing myself to an electrician, I'm not comparing myself 218 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: to a farmer. I'm comparing myself to the guy next 219 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: to me, and he's making more money me. I am 220 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: gonna be unapologetic about it. I'm gonna be loud about 221 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: it if me and if need be I'm gonna be 222 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: really brash and and sometimes unprofessional about it. I'm not 223 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna be I'm gonna withhold services if I 224 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: don't get what I want. So Ricky is a really 225 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: complicated character, and as I began to think about him, 226 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: I began to think about this sort of American arc 227 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: of a guy who was super talented from day one. 228 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: I asked, Ricky, when did you know you had world 229 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: class talent? And he said, oh, I don't know about 230 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: sixth grade. They said you were eleven, you know that early, 231 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: you know, And in thinking about him, I was thinking, 232 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: here's a guy who has a wonderful story arc. He 233 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: is really one of the most talented players to ever 234 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: play the game. He is one of the most unpopular 235 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: players to ever played the game, and at the same time, 236 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: by the edit of his career, he's one of the 237 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: most beloved players who played the game. He's this combination 238 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: of sexual page and Yogi vera. But at the time 239 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: that he was playing, he wasn't necessarily beloved. I mean, 240 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: the fans loved him. He was not beloved because he 241 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: was so intriguing to watch, but his purist didn't love him. 242 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: Um management didn't love him. I mean, now in retrospect, 243 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: we we see him as this character and this beloved 244 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: figure within baseball, but at the time that wasn't the case. 245 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: Was he ahead of his time in understanding and being 246 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: aware of his worth in a way that other players, 247 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: particularly black players, were not given the opportunity. And it's 248 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: a great point, and that was one of the things 249 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: that I was asking myself when I was working on this, 250 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: on these outlines, It was like, Okay, how do you 251 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: go from being a guy that people really can't stand 252 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: to somebody that people want to tell stories about? And 253 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: that was really good material. And the reason, of course 254 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: number one was Ricky obliterated the record book. He there's 255 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: nobody like it. He was just that good as a player, 256 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: and he really couldn't take your eyes off of him. 257 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: But to your other point, yeah, Ricky was ahead of 258 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: his time because rick he wasn't afraid. Black players coming 259 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: out of the nineties and sixties, they were so grateful 260 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways just to be allowed to 261 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: integrate the game that they weren't going to rock the boat. 262 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: And now this generation Ricky comes, he doesn't come from 263 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: the Jackie Robinson era, Ricky comes from the Muhammad Ali era. 264 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: Ricky's the guy who pulls the base out of the 265 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: ground and said today, I'm the greatest of all time. 266 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: That's not something that a black player would have said 267 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: from the forties and the fifties. That is a complete 268 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: reference to Muhammad Ali. Howard Ricky in many ways, And 269 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: you make this case in your book is a unicorn 270 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: because the stuff he does, he does better than anyone else. 271 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: Stealing basis, for instance, But in stealing basis doesn't matter 272 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: to the analytics guys and ultimately the owners. Right, stealing 273 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: basis leadoff owners not as much of a priority for 274 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: clubs that are pursuing you know, men on base winning 275 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: records championships talk a little bit about how a player 276 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: like him would survive in too. Well, you're right about 277 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: the stole invasis, but they'll take the home runs. The 278 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: home runs. They'll still take everyone run they can get at. Yeah, 279 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: but they want it with a couple of men on 280 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: base to Well, you know what, I'm so glad you 281 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: said that, because there that is the new ones. I 282 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: remember at one point being in spring training and talking 283 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: to Billy being the a general manager, and of course 284 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: the godfather of of the money ball era. And I 285 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: said to him, what would Ricky be today? And he said, 286 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: with the advanced metrics, Ricky's even better than he was 287 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: back then. And you couldn't you couldn't paid Ricky enough 288 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: today today. I said, well, who is the camp He says, well, 289 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: the compence Mike Trout, who's the best player in the 290 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: game right now? And and he said that Ricky doesn't 291 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: have my Trout's power, but he's got plenty of power 292 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: to hit the ball out of the ballpark. We would 293 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: probably just shift Ricky's categories. We would shift his columns, 294 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: we would we would de emphasize his speed, and we 295 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: would emphasize his power. We would take him probably out 296 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: of the leadoff spot and put him in the three spots, 297 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: so as you said, so he could hit home runs 298 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: with men on base. And and I listened to that, 299 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: and he said, well, you know, and because Ricky's had 300 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: such a phenomenal ie, he's still gonna walk a hundred times, 301 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: so he's just gonna be He can play in any era. 302 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: And I started thinking about this, and I'm thinking, lait 303 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: a minute, a Rickey Henderson, whose speed is d emphasized, 304 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: and whose power is emphasized, who's not hitting in the 305 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: lead off spot, who's not stealing seventy five to a 306 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: hundred basses every year, is still a great player? But 307 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: is it Ricky Henderson? I mean, part of what made 308 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: Ricky great wasn't his ability to hit home runs. A 309 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: lot of guys to hit home runs. It was where 310 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: he did it, how he did it, and how different 311 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: he was from the position that he was playing, which 312 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: was the lead up guy who was supposed to be 313 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: a table setter. So I absolutely understood what Billy was saying. 314 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: But I also think that if you take Rippy today 315 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: and you don't let him steal, and you don't let 316 00:16:58,040 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: him do the things that meet him who he was, 317 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: I think he's less of a player, even if the numbers, 318 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: even if the power numbers are the same. On the 319 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: other hand, I talked to Joe Madden, who was the 320 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: manager of the Angels who was fired earlier this year, 321 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: and he told me that, look, when you're trying to 322 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: steal a base, the dug out their time, and you 323 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: if the picture gets to the to the plate off 324 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: his plate delivery is in one point two seconds or less. 325 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,479 Speaker 1: You have no chance to steal the base. You were 326 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: not allowed to steal. Your chances of being of being 327 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: thrown out are extremely high. We're not gonna let it 328 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: happen except him Rickie's case. Did he tells me the 329 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: story about how when Ricky was playing with him at 330 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: the the Angels in ninety seven, Ricky was beating the 331 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: picture even at one point too and one point one second. 332 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: To give you an idea of how fast he was. 333 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: Did he the other thing, Rickie was thirty eight starty 334 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: nine years old at the time. But he's just thirty 335 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: eight year old able to do this, and so his 336 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: gifts translate across. You were saying earlier about Ricky being 337 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: a unicorn, and it is true. They said, what's Ricky's legacy? 338 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: And sometimes I don't know if he has one? Because 339 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: he can do things that they don't even emphasize in 340 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: the game right now. Maybe if he were in the 341 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: game they would let him do it. But with instant 342 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: replay and the lack of emphasis on stolen basis, I 343 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: do wonder still a great player, but not the guy 344 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: we grew up. You're exactly right about what he could do, 345 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: because he not only could he hit. He could put 346 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: the ball where the ball needed to be for the 347 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: play to evolve. And that's an art that I'm seeing 348 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: today that is it is starting to wear away. No, 349 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: it's gone because they're the The attitude is is that 350 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: we will sacrifice batting average for power. And my question 351 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: is is that okay, Well, if you're gonna sacrifice batting 352 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: average for power, and it's a game of failure anyway, 353 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: if the greatest players get a hit, you know, three 354 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: out of ten times, what are we watching In the meantime, 355 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: We're watching a whole lot of strikeouts and a whole 356 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: lot of outs, and people were saying baseball is boring 357 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: before that, he made the game really exciting. And here's 358 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: one up last thing I want to say about just 359 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: the unicorn that Ricky was in nineteen from nineteen seventy nine, 360 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: Ricky's first at that in the big leagues to two 361 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: thousand one, the end of the two thousand one season 362 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: where he gets his three thousand hits. Ricky joins the 363 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: Boston Red Sox the very next year, two thousand two. 364 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: So between nineteen seventy nine and two thousand from the 365 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: year before he joined the Red Sox Ricky sold more 366 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: basis than the Red Sox, the entire team. He's sold 367 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: more bases than an entire team, which is like impossible. 368 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: That's like, that's like bave roots stuff where you hit 369 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: more more home runs than than the whole than the 370 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: whole league. It's it's incredible what he what he did, 371 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: and you just can't put a camp on that. He's incredible. 372 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: Still to come on the show more with the ESPN 373 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: senior writer Howard Bryants. That is straight ahead on Bloomberg 374 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: Business of Sports. I'm Michael Barr. You can follow me 375 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: on Twitter at bit bar sports and I'm on Twitter 376 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: at Scarlett sim And do not forget to catch our 377 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: podcast that's Monday's, Wednesdays and Thursdays on all your podcast 378 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: platforms and to here on Bloomberg Business of Sports from 379 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from 380 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show 381 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: where we explore the big money issues the world of sports. 382 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: Michael Barr, I'm Scarlet fou Let's continue our conversation now 383 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: with Howard Bryant, senior writer to ESPN and author his 384 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: tenth book, is out on the legacy and lasting impact 385 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: of baseball legend Ricky Henderson, Ricky the life and legend 386 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: of an American original. And Howard, we were just talking 387 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: about how Ricky's playing style would translate to today's game. 388 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: You had mentioned that Billy Bean, of course, the original 389 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: moneyball guys, said that he would emphasize his power, Ricky's power, 390 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: but de emphasize his speed because nobody cares about stealing 391 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: basis anymore. But that's basically commoditizing Ricky Henderson. And you 392 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: can't really commoditize a guy like Ricky Henderson and his skills. Well, 393 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: and that's what but that's what the game has become. 394 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: And that's why a lot of people in the sport 395 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: are very concerned about the future of the sport because 396 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: they're like, it's getting stale, stale. We need guys to 397 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: hit the ball, we need guys to move runners over, 398 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: we need action on the base path, otherwise it becomes 399 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: this sort of for our home running derby, and who 400 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: want that? And and what happens when you're not getting 401 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: home Runs's a whole lot of top ups and the 402 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: game isn't really as much fun. And I okay, talking 403 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: to Rippy about this, and he was distraught about about 404 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: being told that he wouldn't be able to steel bassn't 405 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: geting his game. So that being the case, Howard is 406 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: Steve Cohen and his number crunchers, the analytics guys, Billy 407 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: Bean and his moneyball people. Are they bad for the 408 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: sport of baseball in terms of creating an exciting product 409 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: for people to watch? I mean that might be good 410 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: in terms of doing what they need to do to 411 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: generate efficiencies, but it doesn't create a better product. Outstanding question, 412 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: And you're a d pent right, And I think that 413 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: the biggest mistake that they're making isn't only that, and 414 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: Billy and I have talked about this for years. It's 415 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: the fact that you are trying to sell this game 416 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: through goes analytics. You're trying to sell the game through numbers. 417 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: I have no problem with evaluating players through numbers and 418 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: drafting players through numbers. But every time you look up 419 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,479 Speaker 1: on TV, you're seeing some sort of mathematical formula there 420 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: about this guy's larn angling, this guy's hard hit rate. 421 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: You've got to sell the people. That goes back to 422 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: what Joe Torrey used to say, the game still has 423 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: to have a beating heart. And I'm thinking, every time 424 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: I'm much in a baseball game, it feels like a 425 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: trigonometry test and at some point, at some point, you've 426 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: got to get it back to the people. Now, the 427 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: saving grace would Steve Collen and the messages that his 428 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: manager but show Walter absolutely loves Ricky and he was 429 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: one of Ricky's coaches back in the Yankee days in 430 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: the mid eighties, and so Ricky and but for prepaired up. 431 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: That would be great. In fact, if you call it 432 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: Ricky right now, he would tell you I think I 433 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: could still help a team even though he retired. He's 434 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. That's not possible. Never he 435 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: never retired. I went to Ricky and I said, you know, Ricky, 436 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: you never officially your time. I mean the phone stopped bringing, 437 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: but you actually never kind of her announced your retirement. 438 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: And he said, I think I could still help a team. 439 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: And I said, you're sixty one years old. I want 440 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: to ask you, though about the state of baseball in general. 441 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that we have big enough personalities to 442 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: attract new followers. Do we have a Tommy losorder that 443 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: can fight the Philly fanatic just colorful stuff like that. 444 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: It's do we need more of that for the game? 445 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: And you need more of it for the game. And 446 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: this is the this is the issue that baseball has 447 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: had in terms of how you choose to sell your game. 448 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: And baseball has chosen to sell its game through numbers, 449 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: and eventually that gets very very stale, it loses its 450 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: its power. And the technology has a lot to do 451 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: with it. The technology sort of changes things that the 452 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: old Tommy Losordas and the Billy Martin's and all of 453 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: those types of managers and spark the Andrews and those 454 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: colorful managers don't get to do all the crazy historyonics 455 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 1: that we used to see, except for Aaron Boone, who 456 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: still manager of the Yankees, still seems to like to 457 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: fight with with umpires all the time. But because today 458 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: they have replay, so there's no reason to argue. You 459 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: sit in the dugout, you go look and you're either safer, 460 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: you're out. It's a totally different sport and and the 461 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: instant replay has changed a lot of how the game 462 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: is sort of played on the field. It's it's a 463 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: it's a risk averse game. Now it's not as daring 464 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: as it used to be. And you go back and 465 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: look at the history of the black player in the game. 466 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: You know, Negro League Baseball was extremely daring. Basically, it 467 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: wasn't a power game. It was a speed game. You 468 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: look at the Caribbean game in Latin America, also speed game. 469 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: But you come to America and it's a bopping game. 470 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: It's a game where you try to hit the ball 471 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: over the fence and everything sort of bogs down. And 472 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: I think at some point you still need to add 473 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: the electricity to the game. You we need more rickies, 474 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: to be honest, they couldn't wait to get rid of 475 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: m Earli in his career, but now we've got Yeah, 476 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: And I think about the contrast to say a Derek Jeeter. Um, 477 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: there's this documentary series on ESPN right now and all 478 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: the reviews are in the Captain and just talking about 479 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: how boring it is because Derek Jeter cultivated this personality 480 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: where he showed no personality, right, I mean, that's how 481 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: he survived. Documentary. It's got to be a little exciting. 482 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: I don't know. They said he doesn't he doesn't share anything, 483 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: he doesn't reveal anything. He tries to stay as a 484 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: bland as possible, and that that's built up from years 485 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: of dealing with New York media, right, I mean, if 486 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: that's what he said. I covered Derek in the on 487 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: the Yankees Iver the Yankees in two thousand and one 488 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: and two thousand two, and Derek used to say, I'm 489 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: I am perfectly bland. And that may have served him 490 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: and allowed him to concentrate and kept his focus and everything, 491 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: but it certainly doesn't lend itself to the type of 492 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: bigger personalities. But this is also this is also baseball's 493 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: doing baseball scope. They really went out of their way 494 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: to become a local game. Now you know, I'm an 495 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: old guy, so I remember back when everybody in the 496 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,959 Speaker 1: country knew who Reggie Jackson was. Everybody in the country 497 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: knew a lot of those baseball players, and he knew 498 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: the guy's cross country. Baseball now sells itself into regional markets. 499 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: So you know, the Lebron james Is and the Aaron 500 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: Rodgers and the Tom Brady's of the world, they get 501 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: the country. But baseball, how do you have a guy 502 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: like Mike Trout and Shelly Otani in the sport, and 503 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: people in baseball don't outside of baseball don't names. But 504 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: this is the sport. How the sport has chosen to 505 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: sell itself to the public. I don't believe that baseball 506 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: can't be a national game. I believe this is a choice. 507 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: How do you say no to four hundred forty million dollars? 508 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: Anybody not know what I'm talking about? One so though 509 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: he rejected a contract of four forty million dollars from 510 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: the national one million bar there you go. That's and 511 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: that is the reason. Well, how do you like that 512 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: as a message? That's one photo saying I won't play 513 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: it for you for any amount of money. You can't 514 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: pay me enough. Because if you have four hundred over 515 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: fifteen years, I can't get score rangdred for ten somewhere else. 516 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: And I don't have to play here. The Yankees will 517 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: give me four hundred, Dodgers will give me four hundred. 518 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: There's there's money out there and now and this is 519 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: this goes back to a sort of a ricky thing. 520 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: I go back to when I was going through the 521 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: day by days. People were more upset in the early 522 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: eighties when Lennon Barker received a nine hundred thousand dollar 523 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: time track, and he wrote a letter to the fans 524 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: and I apologize, And nobody's worked that kind of money 525 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: in today. Totally got four hundred millions, and people kind 526 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: of don't fat and eye. But at the beginning of them, 527 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: that was the beginning of the money era. People weren't 528 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: used to it. But today, the bottom line is really simple. 529 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: If you sit back and you said, okay, we got 530 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,959 Speaker 1: thirty teams out there, Juan Soto was gonna go, Mike 531 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: Trout got four hundred, Mookie Best got three sixty or 532 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: three eighty or somewhere in there. The you know, Aaron 533 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: Judge is going to try to get four hundred. How 534 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: many teams out there are going to afford that contract. 535 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: There's probably about three or four teams out there where 536 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: you can get that same money. It's not like Won 537 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: Sola was saying to himself, I'm gonna host myself money 538 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: by not playing with the nationale. He's still gonna get 539 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: his price. I mean, if the Padres are given out 540 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: three hundred million dollars contracts, the money is there. I 541 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: am just blown away. I just million dollars. And by 542 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: the way, I just let you all know, I'll be 543 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: damned if y'alls here a letter from me apologizing for 544 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: any money that I make. But it's true, I mean, 545 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: and the sports fact that the writers in the industry 546 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: itself back in the late seventies early and they sold 547 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: the sport to to to the public life. Baseball was 548 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: not a business. It was a game, and in a game, 549 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: you don't make that kind of money. And Ricky was like, no, no, no, 550 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: I want my million. Even though seventy nine Ricky was 551 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: making seventeen thousand. A few years later he was making 552 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: five thirty five and still thought he was under baying 553 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: pretty good jump in salary. Al Bryant, senior writer at 554 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: ESP and author of his tenth book, It is Out, 555 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: on the legacy and lasting impact the baseball legend Rickey 556 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: Henderson Ricky the life and legend of an American original. Howard. 557 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: I bless you for your knowledge and I enjoy talking 558 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: with you, sir Howard. Wonderful to talk to you. Thank you. Kids. 559 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: Feels better to be than one than number five a number. 560 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: Because of Mike, we have a chance to go for 561 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: three in a row. Good numbers are a good time. 562 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 1: When I first started wearing the number. How we just 563 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: have the improud bloom bird business of sports. The number 564 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: of the week, for the number of the weeks where 565 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: I humiliate myself on a weekly basis. You're not going 566 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: to humiliate you. I promise you. This one is on 567 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: the World Golf Hall of Fame. Now it's leaving Florida 568 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: and returning to North Carolina. What I want to know 569 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: is when was the World Golf Hall of Fame in St. Augustine, Florida. 570 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: When did it open? I will give you twenty five 571 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: years either way. Okay, I'm gonna say nineteen sixty three. 572 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: Are you laughing at me? I'm not laughing, but I 573 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: think you kind of missed. It's what yeah, really, yeah, 574 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: that's when in open. It's only been around since they're 575 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: moving it. They're only in Florida since Very mad Scarlet. Okay, 576 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to have a little talk before you 577 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: figure out the number of the Week next week. And 578 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: we've got we've got to find a way to get 579 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: me back on a respectable track before Um, Damien or 580 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: Lynch come back. We call that in the business the 581 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: quiz show scandal. You want the answer before no, no, no, no, no, 582 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about giving me the answers. We just 583 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: you know, I need to make sure that you we 584 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: have an understanding of where my strengths lie. This is 585 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business and Sports Show. We're here each and 586 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: every week at the same time, plus online wherever you 587 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,479 Speaker 1: get your podcast. You can catch those Mondays, Wednesdays and 588 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: Thursdays at Michael Barr on Twitter at Big Bar Sports, 589 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: and you can find me on Twitter at Scarlett Food. 590 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Tune in again next week for 591 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: the latest on the stories moving big money in the 592 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: world of sports. You're listening to The Bloomberg Business of 593 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: Sports from Bloomberg Video around the world.