1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: My name is Joanna Smith, and I do a lot 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: of activism in a lot of different areas. I kind 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: of consider it to be my job. I call myself 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: a professional citizen, which to me just means paying attention 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: to what's going on and acting when it's necessary. And 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: in terms of climate in particular, I feel like I've 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: always been very aware of the issues around it. 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 2: Joanna Oltman Smith was one of two activists arrested at 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 2: the National Gallery in Washington, d C. In April twenty 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: twenty three. She and her fellow activist Tim Martin, both 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: members of the group declare emergency. Smeared water soluble finger 12 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: paint on the glass display case around a DEGA statue 13 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: called Little Dancer, and they sat down in front of 14 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: it and read a statement about my President Biden needs 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: to declare the climate crisis a state of emergency. Martin 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: and Smith, both parents, talked about fearing for their children, who, 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: unlike the Little Dancer, are not protected by glass and 18 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 2: face an increasingly dangerous world. Gallery visitors gathered around them, 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 2: along with a few journalists they had invited, and then 20 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 2: they were arrested pretty quietly, as expected. The indictment that 21 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 2: came down for them both. A month later was more 22 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 2: of a surprise. The two were charged with conspiracy against 23 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 2: the United States because the protest took place in a 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: federal building. That crime comes with a potential jail sentence 25 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: of ten years and a fine of half a million dollars. 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: It was quite a shock, I think that's a perfect word. 27 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: I could not believe that what I last I was 28 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: being held by the National Park Service Police because of 29 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: the location of the protest was on the National Mall, 30 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: and that's their jurisdiction. And when they released me, they 31 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: gave me a kind of a hearing appearance ticket that 32 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: indicated that my violation was defacing public or private property, 33 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: which is exactly what I did and intended to do 34 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: in the most non destructive way possible. Right but right 35 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: before that hearing was to happen, I received a call 36 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: from my lawyer informing me that it was now in 37 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: federal jurisdiction and that I had been indicted by a 38 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: grand jury on two counts which are public and I 39 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: can repeat them here. One was conspiracy against the United 40 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: States of America and the other was pertaining to a 41 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: very obscure statute that covers only the National Gallery and 42 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: sets a much lower threshold of damage than any that 43 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: I was aware of. The general misdemeanor damage level I 44 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: believe in DC is somewhere like around one thousand dollars, 45 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: and this statute makes any damage at the National Gallery 46 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: over one hundred dollars of felony. So I was yeah, 47 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: indicted on two felony counts and it was just a shock. 48 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: I mean, you, Westervelt, and this is drilled the real 49 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: free speech threat. Throughout this series, in addition to bringing 50 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: you investigative pieces on the role of extractive industry in 51 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: the criminalization protests, and reports from the front lines all 52 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: over the globe, we will be bringing you the stories 53 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: of peace people been directly impacted by this trend. As 54 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: you heard in our episode on the Atlas Network, a 55 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: key step in criminalizing protest is vilifying the protesters themselves. 56 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 2: It's important then to remind people that these activists are humans, 57 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 2: that they care about perfectly reasonable things like protecting their kids, 58 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 2: and that actually it's pretty admirable to take on big 59 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: risks with your comfort and your security in order to 60 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 2: fight for the greater good. Earlier in the season, we 61 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 2: heard from Disha Robbie, the youth climate activist in India 62 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: who's been charged with sedition for working with Fridays for 63 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: Future and supporting the farmer's protests. There today the story 64 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: of Joanna, who describes herself as just a middle aged 65 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: mom from Brooklyn trying to do the right thing. 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Slash podcast terms apply. 83 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: Even as a child, I grew up in Berkeley, California. 84 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: There was a lot of activism and social movement around 85 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: me all the time, and I guess one of the 86 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: big issues of my childhood was a general sense that 87 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: things need to be done in a different way in 88 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: order to protect I guess back in the seventies it 89 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: was more of a focus on wildlife and open space 90 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: out in California, so issues would be addressed around certain 91 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: species who were threatened with extinction, or preserving a park 92 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: for public use when developers wanted to build a house 93 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: on it, or that sort of granular local issue. We 94 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: had a roadway in Berkeley it still is, I believe, 95 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: closed off every season to allow newts to cross. It's 96 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: up in the Tilden Regional Park above Berkeley. They have 97 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: these wonderful new crossing signs up in Tilden anyway, So 98 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: just you know, as a kid, just very aware of 99 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: our impact affecting other species. My elementary school in Berkeley 100 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: was one of the first, probably to have any kind 101 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: of garden elements. It had something they called the Environmental 102 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: Yard Washington Elementary on Martin Luther King, which was basically 103 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: just this huge open space with plantings and a pond 104 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: and we could just run around in there at recess. 105 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: So that was a big formative thing for me. Moving 106 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: on into college years, I went to Vassar College in 107 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: Poughkeepsie in the nineties and at the time there was 108 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: no recycling program on campus, so a bunch of students 109 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: and I would get up early on Sunday mornings and 110 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: drive around in a truck collecting all the empties from 111 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: all the house parties and take them to a recycling 112 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: center in Dutchess County. I think that was probably like 113 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: my first on the ground trying to do something with 114 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: my hands to make things better. But in terms of 115 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: like political involvement around the climate issue, I'd say my 116 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: entree was actually around transportation issues in New York City. 117 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: I was very concerned about how car s't dominating the 118 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: urban environment and polluting it and making things unsafe on 119 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: the street level for everyone else trying to use the city. 120 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: So I got involved in advocating for safer streets for 121 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: people walking and riding bikes and helped found a political 122 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: action committee around that issue that still exists in New 123 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: York to help get people elected who understood all the 124 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: issues that come up around around giving people choices about 125 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: how they move around the city. And then that got 126 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: me involved in all kinds of local politics. I served 127 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: on my local police precincts community council for a couple 128 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: of terms, trying to help them understand the issues around 129 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: the built environment, how they could better be good community 130 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: partners around that. Gave up on that, but I tried 131 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: to reform the NYPD and I joined my local. It's 132 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: like the lowest level of government in New York City. 133 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: It's called the Community Board. They're like fifty of them 134 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: around the city, and the idea behind them is to 135 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: have citizen input on local issues, ranging from liquor licenses 136 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: to historic preservation. And I became very aware sitting on 137 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: that board that we were still litigating really important climate 138 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: issues on a block by block basis, things like trying 139 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: to remove one parking spot to allow for more bicycle 140 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: parking on street, or letting a homeowner put solar panels 141 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: on their historic district house. This kind of thing would 142 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: take hours and hours of fighting and discussion, and sometimes 143 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: they would pass and sometimes they wouldn't. And I just 144 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: started to feel like the extreme weather events that were 145 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: happening in my life were being caused by all of 146 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: our our man made emissions, and that the local politics 147 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: wasn't up to speed in terms of coming up with 148 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: solutions around that. So I have, over the years done 149 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: a lot. Like I mentioned the electoral politics, like doing 150 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: get out the vote and petitioning and trying to get 151 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: certain people in office. I've also done a lot of 152 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: citizen lobbying with various nonprofits in the climate area and 153 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: other issues that I care about, like Mom's Demand and 154 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: the Trust for Public Land and the National Resource Defense 155 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: Council New York Renews, which is a coalition of several 156 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: hundred environmental and community groups in New York State trying 157 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: to get climate friendly legislation through our very broken legislature. 158 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: So yeah, I've done. I've done like a lot of 159 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: on the ground organizing, and part of that has been 160 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: rallying and protesting. I've done a fair amount of dye 161 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 1: ins and picket lines and blockading of buildings to raise 162 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:28,479 Speaker 1: awareness on different issues. Have focused on primarily financial targets 163 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: because we live in New York City that's where the 164 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: headquarters of a lot of the largest funders of fossil 165 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: fuel infrastructure based. Yeah. I have like a really great 166 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: group of meditative friends from all different faith traditions and 167 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: we get together once a week and hold a kind 168 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: of silence meditative witness in front of the Black Rock headquarters. 169 00:11:54,040 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: Sometimes within it. Occasionally I've been arrested there for nonviolen 170 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: civil disobedience, things like protesting in the lobby after they 171 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: ask us to leave, or making a little bit of 172 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: a challenge for people entering the building so that they 173 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: are able to hear the message that people are trying 174 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: to get across about how their version of responsible investing 175 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: isn't truly responsible because they don't follow things through their 176 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: whole value chain. So that's kind of my background. But 177 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: i'd say in terms of what I just did with 178 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: declare emergency in Washington, that was my first time stepping 179 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: up as an individual, putting myself on the line with 180 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: my partner Tim to really do something that we knew 181 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: would raise the alarm on the government's lack of climate 182 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: action to the level that would pierce the bubble of 183 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: mainstream media, which is very inclined to not cover any 184 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: of all the things I just mentioned to you, pretty 185 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: much radio silence on the part of the large media 186 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: outlets in terms of what's happening on the ground, how 187 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: broad the movement is at this point, how intersectional it is, 188 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: how so many different social issues are coming into the 189 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: climate issue because we're all interconnected. So this action was 190 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: devised as a way to make sure that some coverage happened, 191 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: and we did that by doing it in a very 192 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: public space and doing it in a way where we 193 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: could get our speech out and explain what we feel 194 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: needs to be done to move the dial on climate action. 195 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: But we also did it in a completely non violent 196 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: way and also non destructive. We use purposefully used tempera 197 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: paint that is otherwise known as washerful finger paint that's 198 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: used in nursery schools all over the world. And we 199 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: did it because we wanted to have, yeah, a visual component, 200 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: because that kind of theatric is what ends up being covered, 201 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: and we needed that coverage in order to start more discussions. 202 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: And it needed to happen in Washington, DC because that's 203 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: where our leaders are making all the decisions or lack 204 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: therein that are making it very hard to live on 205 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: this planet at the moment, and it's just going to 206 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: get harder. 207 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 4: So there's so many things that you just mentioned that 208 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 4: I want to pick up on, one of which is 209 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 4: this thing of the media. As I consistently hear from 210 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 4: people who are organizing actions that it is like impossible 211 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 4: to get the media to cover activism, and especially to 212 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 4: cover it as anything other than a disruption. 213 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: Any facts, yeah, or any background as to motivation of 214 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: why people might want to take this personal risk, That 215 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: is the challenge. I would say that there's been a 216 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: little bit of coverage on our particular protests that I 217 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: found very spot on and compelling, and all of that 218 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: has come from social scientists who some journalists reach out 219 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: to and you know, get a larger picture of what's 220 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: going on with movement building. Pretty much all of those academics, scientists, professors, 221 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: they all understand the need for the disruption to get 222 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: the media to pay attention. And the idea is to 223 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: not keep manifesting the disruption for all time. The idea 224 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: is to get the disruption covered, starts people talking about 225 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: the issue, learning more about the issue. I mean, at 226 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: the point we're at with the extreme weather spiraling out 227 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: of control all across the globe, it's not exactly like 228 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: we need to raise awareness, or you would think it 229 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't be, but it still is a necessity because you 230 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: look at the pushback that our protest has received from 231 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: pretty much everyone within the art world. Anyone from a 232 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: mainstream newspapers who we still respect, we still understand the 233 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: need of the free press to get important information out 234 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: to the public. That's why we wanted so dearly for 235 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: them to cover our protests. But then you get things 236 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: like the Washington Post editorial board painting us with very 237 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: broad strokes and pretending that they didn't understand the need 238 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: for it in the way we approached it, when all 239 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: of the social scientists say, this is exactly what has 240 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: to happen. 241 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 4: So actually, I think it'd be helpful for people who 242 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 4: are not familiar with organizing or protests. Could you walk 243 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 4: me through how does an action like this come together? 244 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: Right? I'm of course not allowed to talk about the 245 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: specific action that it's currently being litigated, but I have 246 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: participated in so many actions over the years, so I 247 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: can speak to the Yeah, general, organizing involves clarifying a 248 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: message and a mission. What are you trying to achieve? 249 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: That can be done starting with one person, I see 250 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: a problem, I want to fix this problem. How am 251 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: I going to go about explaining this to other people? So? Right, 252 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: you have to come up with what you're doing and 253 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: why you're doing it. Then you reach out, there's outreach, 254 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: you find like minded people, You find them in a 255 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: wide variety of ways these days. You put something on 256 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: social media, you print up a poster, you print up 257 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: a palm card, You get out to the farmer's market 258 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: and talk to people. You ask friends and friends of 259 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: friends to help share your message of what you are 260 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: hoping to change, and then you get together with those 261 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: people who have expressed interest in connecting with you on 262 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: that issue, and you devise an action plan. And that 263 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: is generally something that depends on who you're trying to 264 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: reach in terms of where the change can actually be made, 265 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: It depends on locations, It depends on various people's risk 266 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: tolerance in terms of interacting with both law enforcement and 267 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: anyone else who might come down the pipeline after having 268 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: done something like this. So basically groups are divided into 269 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: by risk and certain actions depending on your immigration status, 270 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: your age, your current employment situation, need to be home 271 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: for your kids. There can be a variety of reasons 272 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: why people might not want to engage with law enforcement, 273 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: but because this is like the moral issue of our time, 274 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: protecting a livable planet is something that a lot of 275 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: people are willing to engage with law enforcement around, and 276 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: that engagement needs to be non violent for it to 277 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: be powerful in any way, and so there's training that 278 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: happens around that. For the people who are willing to 279 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 1: risk arrests, there is a lot of coming together about 280 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: different ways of communicating, ways of speaking with each other, 281 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: how to show respect through body language, how to position 282 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: yourself in a way that will reduce the chance of 283 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: harm to yourself and others. There are a lot of 284 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: different components to nonviolen civil disobedience, and anyone who's planning 285 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: to undertake that in a way that will actually eventually 286 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: make some change happen needs to be up to speed 287 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: on all that. So that training takes place, and then 288 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 1: the day of action finally comes around, and hopefully everyone 289 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: that you've gotten on board knows exactly what their role 290 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: is and is there to support one another. Then there 291 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: is a whole another element of support that happens around 292 00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: helping those who have decided to risk arrest. Will take 293 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: care of personal belongings. People will make sure that they 294 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: have your emergency contact and your medical needs written down somewhere. 295 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: People will come to the location where you have been 296 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: detained after an action and greet you when you are 297 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: released and make sure you have a snack and make 298 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: sure you know what your next legal steps are. So 299 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: there's a lot from soup to nets. It's like a 300 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: really long process, but it's amazing people power when you 301 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: get people on the ground, all there for the same reason, 302 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: all trained and nonviolen simple disobedience, and all ready to 303 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: help make a protest happen in a way that will 304 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: get the message out, the intended message out, and make 305 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: sure that everyone stays safe. 306 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 4: It's interesting because I feel like one part of the 307 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 4: sort of backlash currently is to almost paint that organizing 308 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 4: as like insidious exactly, yeah, like organized crime or something that's. 309 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: Exactly what they are doing. And when I speak to 310 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: my surreal position as an individual, I have been aware 311 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: of this happening in other countries, even in other states 312 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: in the United States, I always somehow thought that the 313 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: RICO laws were specific to organize crime and for people 314 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: who are trying to harm other people, or cheat other people, 315 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: or do something very nefarious, And all of this climate 316 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: movement organizing that's now being charged under these laws is 317 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: the opposite. The intention is to support other people and 318 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: help other people and quite frankly save other people. I 319 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: find it very interesting that the whole concept of getting together, 320 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: with assembling with like minded people and coming up with 321 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: effective protests is now considered something sinister. That descent in 322 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: general is in many eyes seen as the same as 323 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: destruction or something. 324 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot going on the US, and then 325 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 4: we're also looking at what's going on in other countries 326 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 4: and where there's overlap between things happening here and in 327 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 4: other places. I was talking to a disinformation researcher about 328 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 4: trends that they're seeing and climate disinformation and things like that, 329 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 4: and she didn't even know that we're working on a 330 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 4: series about the backlash against protests. And I was like, so, 331 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 4: what are you looking at? What are the things that 332 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 4: are concerning you in the next six to twelve months 333 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 4: And she was like, well, I'm really concerned about the 334 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 4: rhetoric I'm seeing that sort of othering and demonizing of 335 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 4: climate protesters, and even more concerned about the way that 336 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 4: the media seems to just be running with that frame. 337 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: Thank you. I have an exhibit a for you to 338 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: check out, which is an article that ran in The Times. 339 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I saw it. 340 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,239 Speaker 4: They were really defensive of the museums and how they 341 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 4: were causing problems for them. 342 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, we went into this acknowledging this is going to 343 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: be a pain for the museum, this is going to 344 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: inconvenience a lot of people. It's going to probably be 345 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: upsetting to people there, but it's not going to harm 346 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: any of them, and it's certainly going to be easy 347 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: to clean up. That was our thinking. But the Times 348 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: piece didn't even do any fact checking as far as 349 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: I can tell based on some things I've seen coming 350 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: out of the discovery process, and I am pretty concerned 351 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: about a news outlet that I rely on as a 352 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: New Yorker running such a one sided piece where they 353 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: really didn't even get to the the heart of the matter, 354 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: which is what's the issue? Why are all these people 355 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: doing this? Particularly a mom and dad of a certain 356 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: age like Tim and I are. We felt really compelled 357 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: to do this action as parents, as a protective measure 358 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: to keep our kids and all kids safe around the world, 359 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: and that really didn't make it into that article. Wow, 360 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Yeah, just back to the museum itself. 361 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: I have an advanced degree in an art related area 362 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: of study. I'm a historic preservationist, so I have learned 363 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: how to conserve art, and I've learned the importance of 364 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: art in society as an expression of our highest human spirit, 365 00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: and what we decide to preserve and serve is a 366 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: reflection of our ideals. And I live around a lot 367 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: of art, and I'm a longtime member of the Metropolitan Museum. 368 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: I attend art festivals, and I go to galleries for 369 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: fun and openings at museums, and it's just a big 370 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: part of my life. And I felt comfortable doing this 371 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: action because I realized that this extreme weather that is 372 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: being brought down by all of our man made emissions 373 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: is going to threaten all those beautiful things that I've 374 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: loved for my whole life, including art in museums, including 375 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: all the precious people in my life, and including all 376 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: of the amazing places I have lived my life that 377 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: I think should be around for other generations to enjoy. 378 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: I just I don't think that action is an option anymore, 379 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: given what the science is telling us. And I believe 380 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: the science. I believe it. I'm not terribly knowledgeable on 381 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: the science, but I am listening to the high level 382 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: overview of what the IPCC is saying. I am listening, 383 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: for sure, to the UN Secretary General who comes out 384 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: and says things like the real radicals are not the activists. 385 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: The real radicals are the fossil fuel companies who refuse 386 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: to change their way of doing business. And that gets 387 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: to all levels. Like I living in New York, I 388 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: attend a fair amount of conferences and some posia that 389 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: are open to the public, and sometimes those are at 390 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: places like NYU or Columbia University. And I sit there 391 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: and I see who is on the dias, who's getting 392 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: the spotlight at these institutions, and then I realize, Oh, 393 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: those same companies, and the representatives of those companies are 394 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: the ones who are funding the research. They're the ones 395 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: who decide what will be presented and what will be 396 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: and it's it's really shocking like that all these universities 397 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: have ethics divisions. They have someone whose job it is 398 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: to make sure that it doesn't impact the research. But 399 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: I'll tell you from even just from sitting in on 400 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: basic webinars where there's someone from BP right there next 401 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: to all the professors, those professors are not going to 402 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: actually speak their full mind and heart because they know 403 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: where their bread is buttered. They need that next research. 404 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 4: Grant whenever I talk to people at universities, actually they 405 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 4: make a free speech argument about it. 406 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,239 Speaker 1: It sort of comes full circle, right, all right, right, 407 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: they say, well, you. 408 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 4: Give our researchers and our professors academic freedom, and if 409 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 4: we try to tell them who they can or can't 410 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 4: accept from, then they'll kind of point to Citizens United 411 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 4: as like this procedent. 412 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 413 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 4: The most recent document dump from the Congressional Investigation BP 414 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 4: in particular, like was saying in their emails about how 415 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 4: valuable that the relationship with like Princeton for example, is 416 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 4: not just because they can shape the research agenda and 417 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 4: get their point across and all that stuff, but also 418 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 4: so that they I think it was like they said 419 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 4: something like, so we know what the other side is thinking. 420 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: All right, boy, pretty dark. I think that the Interior 421 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: Secretary just said something along those same lines where she 422 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: she was very much politicizing the desire to slow down 423 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: our extractive businesses with progressive politics. So I'm not going 424 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: to just listen to the progressives who want to stop drilling. 425 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: It shouldn't be you know, it's a bipartisan issue. Survival 426 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: is a bipartis an issue. And if we keep heating 427 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: up our atmosphere the way we are, it's really not 428 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: going to matter whether you're a progressive or a conservative 429 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: or anything. Who won't be able to go outside ever, 430 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: that's the first part. And then the food supply will 431 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: get disturbed, that's the second part. And it won't really 432 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: matter what your politics are. It's just I don't understand 433 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: how people don't see how all the systems are connected. 434 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: It's to have people at the highest position. I think 435 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: the Energy Secretary yesterday tweeted about how upsetting it was 436 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: to see all the extreme weather events hitting all over 437 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: the country and how much suffering they're causing, with a 438 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: complete disconnect that she is in charge of the agency 439 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: that sets our energy policy for the most powerful country 440 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: on Earth. Right she's the Secretary. 441 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 4: I do know a lot a lot of US government 442 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 4: officials will make these statements. I wish there was something 443 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 4: we could do. 444 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: There's a lot you could do it, and that's what 445 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: I try to give them credit for the many things 446 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: that they have done. I'm very excited by a lot 447 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: of the parts of the Inflation Reduction Act that seem 448 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: to be focused on regenerative agriculture or expanding transit or 449 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: things that can really move the dial. But if you're 450 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 1: doing that at the same time you're authorizing things like 451 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: the Mountain Valley pipeline and Willow and the big LNG 452 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: export facility up in Alaska, that's going to wipe all 453 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: those gains off the table. It's a lot to unpack 454 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: for a regular person trying to live a regular life, 455 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: juggling jobs and family and all of the stresses that 456 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: are coming as a result of the massive income inequality 457 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: in our country. Where is anyone supposed to have time 458 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: to sort all this out? That's why we need our 459 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: leaders to do their jobs right. It's not really not 460 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: our job to come up with the policy, and that's 461 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: what we elected them for. And our government is still 462 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: quite involved with that industry from a particularly from a 463 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: campaign donation standpoint and a lobbying standpoint. That's who's whispering 464 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: in the ears of our leaders. Their access is so 465 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: much greater than an average citizen. So here I am 466 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: a little average citizen trying to be heard. 467 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 4: I am curious to hear. I guess, yeah, like what 468 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 4: your initial thought was when you heard these charges? 469 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was quite a shock. I think that's a 470 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: perfect word. So I was Yeah, indicted on two felony counts, 471 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: and it was just a shock. It was a shock 472 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: to hear that from my lawyer because I knew that 473 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: I was taking a risk by taking this action, but 474 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: I had no idea what the level of risk in 475 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: fact turned out to be. In past actions I've undertaken 476 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: in DC, things like die in on Capitol Hill or 477 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: sitting in the halls of Congress during the Kavanaugh hearings, 478 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: I was always given a very manageable fine and allowed 479 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: to kind of release myself on certain There were some constraints, 480 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: like occasionally in New York I will get promised to 481 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: not do anything for a certain number of months in 482 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: terms of my protest activity. But yeah, there's never been 483 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: any kind of threat of sentencing of this magnitude before, 484 00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: so it's kind of uncharted territory for me. I was 485 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: surprised that this would be coming from the federal level, 486 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: the conspiracy charge the federal level, given the administration that 487 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: we currently have. I was expecting that. When that happened 488 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: down in Georgia with the stop prop city protesters, I 489 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: said to myself, well, that's a that's a Georgia problem. 490 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: That's something that kind of overreach is because that particular 491 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: state does not have leadership that respects people's right to protest. 492 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: And I would expect that from some of the things 493 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: I've heard about Georgia politics over the years, But to 494 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: see that coming out of Washington, d C. As well 495 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: under a democratic administration, that to me says we're in 496 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: deeper trouble than we thought, and not just me and Tim, 497 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: but all of us. That shows me that our government 498 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: is afraid of something that Tim and I said in 499 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: that gallery. Because if we had gone in there and 500 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: just maybe done like a little graffiti tagging of the 501 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: pedestal with the same paint and walked out without saying anything, 502 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that the government response would be quite 503 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: different than what we're seeing, and that should be a 504 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: concern to all Americans, Right, I mean, I just keep saying, 505 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: was it something I said? Yeah, Yeah, it was. It 506 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 1: was something I said that there's some pretty powerful interests 507 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 1: that don't want that to be said. 508 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 4: That's really interesting. So logistically, what are you waiting on 509 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 4: right now? 510 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 5: Right? 511 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: So, we had our first initial hearing on Friday that 512 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: was supposed to be straightforward. It was just supposed to 513 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: be all the parties involved in the case meeting with 514 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: the judge, but there was a surprise. The judge issued 515 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: addition restrictions on our pre trial agreement. So already both 516 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: Tim and I have our travel is very restricted. We 517 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: have to get court permission to leave our home federal 518 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: court districts. We've had our passports taken away, and we 519 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: have to check in on a regular basis with the 520 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: pre trial services, and we are forbidden from entering the 521 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: National Gallery. We are also forbidden from entering Washington, d C. 522 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: As a whole because at my arraignment the prosecution made 523 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:46,760 Speaker 1: a very verbal equivalency with my nonviolent civil disobedient protest 524 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: and what happened at the Capitol on January sixth, and 525 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: he argued with the magistrate that outside agitators have been 526 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: coming to Washington, d C. To disturb the community in 527 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: various ways and they need to be kept out. And 528 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 1: if you've done any reading of doctor King, his letter 529 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: from Birmingham Jail explains very nicely why the whole concept 530 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: of an outside agitator around issues as big as civil 531 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: rights or climate change make no sense. There is no 532 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: outside to these issues, right if you understand what's going 533 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: on you understand that everyone is impacted. Therefore there's no 534 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 1: outside but anyway, so we were already quite restricted under 535 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: those guidelines, but the judge on Friday also decided that 536 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: we should not be allowed to enter any museum, and 537 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: that is very distressing to me because it's very broad, 538 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: it's very vague, and there was a little explanation of 539 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: why that was necessary. So that's where we are. 540 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 4: I thought this was strange that they made a point 541 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 4: of saying over the last year, in addition to this 542 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 4: offense to clear emergency, has blocked roadways around the Washington, 543 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 4: DC area. 544 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, this was my first protest with declare emergency and 545 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: I really didn't have anything to do with any of 546 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: those roadblocks. And another thing that came up in the 547 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: hearing on Friday with the judge's concern about copycats activities 548 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: and that somehow, by prohibiting Tim and my ability to 549 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: go to any museum, that that would somehow prevent copycat activity. 550 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: Once again, I'm not sure what that has to do 551 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: with me, But I don't understand all the legal ramifications, 552 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 1: and I'm learning as I go along. If I'm somehow 553 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: able to compartmentalize a little bit I am finding the 554 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: process fascinating to kind of learn how how the system works, 555 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: how the criminal justice system works. It's really interesting to 556 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 1: be in the belly of the beast. I have one 557 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,359 Speaker 1: very visceral experience I've had so far. When I went 558 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: to surrender to the FBI. I thought it was going 559 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: to be kind of a straightforward, more of a like 560 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: a clerical matter, but I ended up being put into 561 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: shackles and taken into custody for a good part of 562 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: the day without a lot of explanation of what was 563 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: happening or why that was necessary. So I guess that's 564 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 1: just their protocol for when somebody surrenders. But that gave 565 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: me a lot of insight into, you know, just what 566 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: business as usual means how people are treated. 567 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 4: I'm curious just what you think about this way that 568 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 4: activism is being portrayed, both kind of by the government 569 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 4: and in the media, where being like a professional citizen 570 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 4: or a career activist or someone who goes to a 571 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,720 Speaker 4: lot of protest or organizes a lot is like increasingly 572 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 4: being painted as like this kind of suspect activity. And 573 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 4: I do think it's funny that, like I feel like it, 574 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 4: it is often people that I think probably do quote 575 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 4: MLK regularly, so I'm curious what you think about that. 576 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, I recognize that most people cannot dedicate as much 577 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: time to following the issues and occasionally showing up in 578 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: person for something the way I've done the past many 579 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: years because of all the things we were talking about before. 580 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: And my circumstance is very different. I was a full 581 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 1: time stay at home mom who did not end up 582 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: going back to work because right around when I was 583 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:54,240 Speaker 1: planning to do that, the pandemic happened and then things changed. 584 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: Work seemed, yeah, like something I could do from home, 585 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 1: which is what I've always done with all this kind 586 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: of thing. And I just have the flexibility in my schedule. 587 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: I have the flexibility in terms of our economic security. 588 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: I have the flexibility of having a supportive partner. I 589 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: have the flexibility of my race. I am a white 590 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: woman with gray hair, and I am much more likely 591 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: to be treated with some modicum of respect than a 592 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: lot of people who are on the front lines of 593 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: the climate crisis. So I use all those, you know, 594 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: those advantages that I have to try and move the dialogue. 595 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: I also feel like there's something to be said around 596 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: being a woman of my age in our particular American 597 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: society where I'm done with my child birthing and rearing, 598 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: and I can't really think of anything else I could 599 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: be doing right now that would have as much of 600 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: an impact as what I am doing. So I just 601 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: think it's the best use of my time. Yeah, and 602 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: I don't think that there is any reason to vilify that. 603 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 1: I am also, I want to say, the oldest sibling 604 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: in my family, and I come from a pretty complicated 605 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: immediate family structure where I was kind of the primary caregiver, 606 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 1: and I think I'm still in that role. I think 607 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: I'm still trying to take care of everything and everyone. Yeah, 608 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: that's just how I'm That's just how I'm wired. I 609 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: can't leave it to someone else to do because, yeah, 610 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: growing up, if I didn't take care of it, it 611 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: didn't get done. And yeah, I think there's a lot 612 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: to be said for that. I don't know, not to 613 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 1: be too grandiose, but it is my hope that people 614 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 1: will see just like, oh, stay at home mom stepping 615 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: up and doing something bold. We'll call it bold. I 616 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe I can at least get in touch 617 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,799 Speaker 1: with my legislators or work on a local issue, or 618 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: it's such a great anecdote to all the anxiety that 619 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 1: so many of us are feeling. Can I ask you 620 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: what your kids think of all this? 621 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 4: Are they you scared or worried for you? 622 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 5: Or yeah? 623 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: What do they think? Yeah, they definitely are concerned about 624 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: how this is all rolling out, this particular protest, but 625 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: overall they have been kind of I would say there's 626 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,720 Speaker 1: like an element of amusement because they're used to seeing 627 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,800 Speaker 1: me in a very different light, just like puttering around 628 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: the house making a dinner or watching TV or whatever, 629 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,760 Speaker 1: and then they see me suddenly like change to something 630 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 1: and being arrested, And I think there's a cognitive disconnect 631 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: for them for sure. But they also, I mean, understand 632 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,800 Speaker 1: the issues that I get out there for and they 633 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 1: I think are in general agreement that someone needs to 634 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,319 Speaker 1: be doing something about it. So I would say they 635 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,919 Speaker 1: don't hold it against me, but they find it kind 636 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: of amusing until now, I will say, because this case, 637 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: there's really nothing amusing about it, and I think they 638 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: are worried for me. They are being extra nice, extra supportive. 639 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: They are not asking a lot of questions, which I 640 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: think is natural because they probably know that they'll hear 641 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: something they don't want to hear. I'm not sure if 642 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: either of them are aware of my possible sentence, and 643 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: I don't think either of them have really thought about 644 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: what that would mean for our family life if they 645 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 1: were not able to see me for that length of 646 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: time or have me be a part of their active 647 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,839 Speaker 1: lives for that length of time. But I think, yeah, 648 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: so I think they're doing some self protecting. That's the 649 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: way I would put it, by not delving too much. 650 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 4: And how old are your kids? 651 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: They're eighteen and twenty. And I was going to say, 652 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,360 Speaker 1: it's actually pretty good timing if there was ever a 653 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: good time for this to happen, because they're both launched. 654 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,840 Speaker 1: They're both as of this fall, my youngest will be 655 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: going to college. My eldest is in college, and they're 656 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,239 Speaker 1: adults now and they have their own lives happening, So 657 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:35,879 Speaker 1: that's great. In fact, we felt like we didn't want 658 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 1: our youngest to just be sitting around with us worrying 659 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 1: about the case for the next many weeks. So he 660 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,919 Speaker 1: had some scholarship money from his high school. He won 661 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: some awards, and he took it and bought your rail pass, 662 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 1: and he's off exploring the world, which I'm really excited about. Yeah, 663 00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: and I'm so I'm so glad that he's not here 664 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,359 Speaker 1: with me. I feel like a little bit like a 665 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,400 Speaker 1: pig pen from the Peanuts with the little cloud of 666 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,799 Speaker 1: dust over my head, where I'm just kind of like 667 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: I have a lot of good coping skills and I 668 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,319 Speaker 1: have a lot of great support, but it is it's 669 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:14,760 Speaker 1: a weight. 670 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,919 Speaker 5: Totally, well, yeah, that of uncertainty at least you don't have, Yeah, 671 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 5: the added pressure of like trying to kind of make 672 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 5: it okay for yes too, you know. 673 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah he could handle some of it, but not 674 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,319 Speaker 1: as much as is going on for sure. Yeah. And 675 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: I think, though, what's interesting having them, well, especially having 676 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: the little one just turn eighteen's it's so interesting as 677 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,120 Speaker 1: a parrot, how they just always stay babies in your 678 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: mind and you see, like you look at the adult man, 679 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: but you see all the different ages in that person. 680 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: And I think when I think about like their vulnerability, 681 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,240 Speaker 1: I yeah, I can't get past that the little people 682 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,440 Speaker 1: vision I have of them. And they both have underlying 683 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:11,080 Speaker 1: health conditions that extreme weather does not help. One of 684 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,799 Speaker 1: them has a heart condition and one of them has asthma, 685 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,799 Speaker 1: and I am just like in I'm in Mama Bear 686 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:23,520 Speaker 1: mode now with all this wildfire smoke and terrible humidity 687 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,520 Speaker 1: and heat. And in New York State, we keep having 688 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,800 Speaker 1: these ozone alerts where they're like, please don't go outside 689 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 1: all day because the ground level ozone is so extreme 690 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: that if you have any trouble breathing, you should pretty 691 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: much stay on your couch today. And I have the 692 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 1: super active, athletic twenty year old who is probably going 693 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: to push the boundaries and just see how much he 694 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 1: can do out there before it takes them down and exhaustome. 695 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: And that's I just can't stand that as a parent. 696 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,479 Speaker 1: And that's just one person on this planet. And there's 697 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 1: so many, so many kids, so many animals just being 698 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 1: hung out to dry, just being treated like they're completely expendable. 699 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,719 Speaker 1: And in the places that did the least to close it, 700 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,360 Speaker 1: that's that's the that's the real rub is that all 701 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 1: of we're getting a taste of it up here in 702 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: lovely New York State. But the brunt of it is 703 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,360 Speaker 1: in places where a lot of people don't even have 704 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 1: electricity at this point, they have nothing to do with 705 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,920 Speaker 1: what has happened, and they are getting washed away and 706 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 1: burnt to a crisp it's really unfair. So we're not 707 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: just doing this for our own families and communities, we're 708 00:48:46,080 --> 00:49:00,719 Speaker 1: doing it for theirs as well. This time of year, 709 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,360 Speaker 1: everyone talks about going dry, but at Athletic Brewing Company, 710 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,879 Speaker 1: we're skipping that because we prefer going athletic, which isn't 711 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:08,480 Speaker 1: dry at all. 712 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,720 Speaker 3: From crisp goldens to hoppyipas and limited releases in between, 713 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,719 Speaker 3: you'll find something that fits your style. Every single non 714 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 3: alcoholic brew is packed with flavor and the same craft 715 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,360 Speaker 3: experience you love. So yeah, you could call it dry, 716 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 3: but there's really nothing dry about it. 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