WEBVTT - Jaeger Kovich - Part 1 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.440 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:06.800 Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:12.360 at b dratty. It is approaching winter. I'm hearing reports 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:14.880 of snow on the ground and much of the Midwest, 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.119 and it's getting really chilly. So what better way to 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.680 stay warm than with the b Dratty's Willy Kruneck tea. 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.800 This thing is super comfortable. I've sung its praises before 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:30.520 on this podcast, but we are offecially in the long 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.159 sleeve tea weather. It's great. I really like wearing the 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:36.839 crew neck tea and putting the vest over it when 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.720 I'm out running errands. It keeps it really warm. It's good. 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:45.320 It's like an optimal play for when the weather's fifty 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.600 degrees forty to sixty degrees. It gives you a lot 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.480 of flexibility, lots of comfort. You look good, you don't 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.880 look like a schmuck. We have some Fried Egg Willy 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:56.960 crew neck teas in the pro shop. You can check 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.400 those out at thefridagg dot com or you can go 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.960 on bdratty dot com check it out there. If you 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.800 don't like the Fridagg logo, you want different color. They 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.080 got they got navy, light blue, gray white. They are 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:14.560 extraordinarily comfortable. I cannot say enough about these T shirts. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.200 I wear them all the time. So bdratty dot com. 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:22.840 Great guys, great golf company that makes really high quality stuff. 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.640 So if you want one with your club logo on it, 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.840 tell your pro to stock them. That's that's the easiest 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.959 way to get your club logo on it. Anyways, without 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.840 further ado, today's guest is Jaeger Kovich. So Jaeger is 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:41.680 a golf course architect. He has worked for years as 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.280 an associate for Gil Hans. He got his start in 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:50.200 architecture at being an intern for Tom Doak. So Yaeger 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.920 is one of the most well traveled and thoughtful young 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.480 architects in the game. I really enjoy spend time with him. 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.800 We walked around Wing and Fenway and then recorded this 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:06.760 podcast and it's a two parter. Came back and recorded 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.040 another session after we this. This sounds like it's gonna 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:11.959 be the end of it at the end of this podcast, 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.120 but it's not. He stays around and uh, we do 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.560 another hour. So this is a two part podcast. Part 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.880 two will be out early next week and you can 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:26.520 follow Jaeger on Instagram at proper Golf. That's also his website, 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.079 so check him out there. So here is Jaeger Kovich 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.120 I miss the green for example, I'm already upset when 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:35.240 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:36.639 And when I find my ball. 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.280 In a frid Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.239 Friday Frida egg egg Frida egg bride egg. 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.400 Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the course. 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.080 Let me ask you a question, and thinking about this 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:15.560 all day. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:17.240 That's my favorite fruit. 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:22.239 No, no, no, much more, much more personal question. 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.120 Oh really more than that. We were talking about bananas 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:26.360 the last time. That's pretty personal. 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:32.079 If did when you bought your car your club man, 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.600 did you think that by buying a clubman that you'd 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.960 become more clubs man? No? Uh. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.280 In fact, all I've got is uh ship about the 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.560 car I drive on repeat from uh you name it, 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:53.440 Jim Wagner, Crazy, Dave Cardos, the super at Burning Tree. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.800 Oh my god, they just never it's it's not you know, 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.800 obviously you drive a mini. Now I've downgraded from the 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:06.080 SUV and it is just a never ending ship storm 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.320 from all these guys that like their their big trucks 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.560 and whatnot. But live in the city, man, I've spent 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.680 enough time trying to look for parking spaces and yeah, 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.159 that's what a waste of days, weeks, months of my 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:20.000 life doing that. 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.640 So clubman's great. Man fit the clubs in the back. 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.720 It's perfect. You know, Well, why do you need to 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:28.160 pick up? 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:31.960 That's what we have sit vehicles for. I don't need 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.680 to drive my own car out on the site and 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:36.479 ruin it on a you know. 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:37.440 That's what you know. 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.080 Walking's perfect. Park kind of anywhere, you know, and up 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.279 at the clubhouse and then just walk out to the machine. 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.640 There's all sorts of great things you can think. 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:50.159 Of, little details that you notice walking around out there. 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:50.640 You know. 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.440 That's see, I need to I don't need to drive 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.280 like within feet of where I'll be. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.520 Working for the day. That's yeah. So we have site vehicles, 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:01.760 you know. 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:02.480 That's why. 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:08.320 So you'd say that pickup trucks are overrated in your industry, 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.640 I mean, they have their purpose, but I wouldn't want 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.320 one for myself. It's great that the clubs own them 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.600 that like contract have them. I mean, there's like a 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:16.920 U two. 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.240 I don't own any equipment, man, I don't need that. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:21.400 It's got to show up. 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:23.880 So I didn't have anything to do with the name. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:28.200 No, absolutely not, all right zero. 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.279 I wonder if it was like the subleminal sales point. 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.080 You know, I drive a club man, because I'm right 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:34.800 clubs man. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:35.880 It's it's occurred to me. 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.680 I did actually bring my golf clubs with me to 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.520 the dealership to make sure that the clubs would fit 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:43.920 properly in the back of the car. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:45.160 But uh. 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.479 No, that was that was not the deal. It's just 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.400 fun to drive, man. It's just like a little BMW 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:53.920 for a fraction of the price. 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:54.520 It's perfect. 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.720 So you grew up in New York City. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.520 Yep, the city, Yeah, upper Upper east Side. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.120 I grew up on a seventh and second. Yeah. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.200 When how'd you get into golf? How'd I? 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:10.040 Well, we had the Uh. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:15.080 You could get the shuttle to the Randalls Island driving 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.719 Range on eighty sixth and third, So when I was 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.400 a kid in the summers, you could get you know. 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.039 All we to do was where we crossed two streets, 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.040 me and my best friend who lived across the street 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:28.919 from me, and we could go over there, get on 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.640 the bus and go whack balls with my dad's old clubs. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.719 And so that's kind of really how we started, you know, 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.400 swinging at least, right and then when you grow up 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.120 in that city, you have to drive somewhere to play golf. 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:48.400 There's nothing, so I think for whatever reason, you know, 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.400 between the two of us and then whoever could convince 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.520 their parents that drive us out to wherever we're going 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.080 to play for the day, I just sort of became 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.600 the guy picking where we were going to go, and 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.239 you know, you kind of I just started weighing things. 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.240 I think how far you had to go, price, what 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.120 we liked about the course that we didn't like, Not 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.720 that we knew much, but you just kind of developed 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.080 preferences and try to find different different stuff. 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:17.840 What was your favorite place to play as a cat? 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:25.480 Our favorite public options around here, so Split Rock for sure, 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:31.160 which is in the Bronx. Then you know, we'd go 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:35.120 up to like there was like a newer modern course 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:37.760 I guess up in like Austining. We'd go through that 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.960 was kind of further away, you know, probably wherever they'd 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.080 let like to kind of high school aged kids probably 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:47.040 drive a golf cart. 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:47.440 At that point. 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.520 But so We really just kind of went everywhere. We'd 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.239 go play, you know, we went out to beth Page 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:58.960 pretty early. We'd go all over Rockland County, Westchester. You know, 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:03.200 my parents me like a couple, like little guide but 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.320 you know, with like a list of different courses, and 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.680 we just start picking things off as I'd read reviews 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:09.320 or whatever and just go to different things. 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.800 But eventually someone. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.040 Gave me practice round tickets to the four open at 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:20.000 Hinnacock and I was walking around out there on a Wednesday. 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.200 I didn't I knew it was supposed to be this 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.360 incredible place, and I'd really just started playing golf like 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.360 maybe two years before that, just walking around walking around, 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.360 didn't even know where it was, but random we stopped 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:36.760 on the seventh tee there and I just just happened 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.120 to sit there for like an hour and just watch 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.080 group after group after group come through and no one 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.560 could hold a green even in the practice rounds. I 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.560 remember there was this one group with there was Darren 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.640 Clark VJ saying Adam Scott and there was like one 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.160 other guy, so like real like top of the game 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.840 at that point, and they were just dropping buckets and 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:56.880 no one could. 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:58.040 Hit in the hole the thing, and I was like, 0:08:58.200 --> 0:08:59.440 what the hell was going on? 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.800 We went home that night and I'm like dad and 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.600 turned on the golf something crazy is going on out there, 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.079 and like they're talking about like I don't know, obviously 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.600 it turned into this like insane thing. So that was 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.880 like a real big sort of eye opener into like, man, 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:14.760 these golf course things are pretty cool, right. 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.160 That was like here first this is that was like 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:18.720 a real. 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:19.720 Big aha moment. 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:24.920 Yeah, and then you know, after that, well, I ended 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.439 up talking my way into being like a free intern 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:32.360 for Muncheon Cornish golf design when I was in college. 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:41.560 Still we had this like that was pretty funny, scout 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:42.160 what not? 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.800 No, that was you know, tough security here at the 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.959 Renaissance Hotel here, no free ad no. 0:09:50.440 --> 0:10:00.160 Sorry, pardon uh what in the world? 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:03.960 So you you talked your way. 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.720 So we had this this internship internship abroad program. I 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.280 went to Hobart. I'd really become fascinated with the golf 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.319 course stuff pretty quick, and I did some like big 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.000 like year long projects in high school trying to design 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.240 a golf course on our campus, and then went to 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.559 college and studied architecture there and eventually so. 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.640 It was the O two open. What what years you grad? Four? Open? 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:30.120 What do years you graduate? High school? Five? Okay? 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:31.600 So college nine? 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.000 So so that's when when did when were you Did 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.120 you really start to get into design? Was that before that? 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.080 Oh four open? No? 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.280 No, No, it was really uh in in college, you know. 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.600 The So I got that internship. I got to spend 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.400 the year or spring semester and Cambridge and worked at 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.720 uh in Mark's office off up above the flower Shop 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:55.720 in Uxbridge. And I knew from the first day I 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:57.480 walked in there that this is what I wanted to do. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.920 So I went back to school the following fall and 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.040 just did everything I could, just sort of gear everything 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:10.920 towards golf course design. And between the internship and going 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.160 back to school, I spent the summer caddying at Quaker Ridge, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.959 and I just totally fell in love with killing hast 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:22.000 and I would spend my whole summer in the caddy 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.720 yard reading every architecture book I could think of or 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.360 find at that time, and then go out and walk around, 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.760 you know, help missus Moskowitz get around, uh till he's 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:36.680 Tilly's treasure. And so it was, you know, a pretty 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:38.000 incredible learning experience. 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.240 There were you the guy in the caddy shack that 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:42.960 everybody wanted to hang out with when you were read 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:49.720 in those architecture books. 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:49.520 Probably not. 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.040 In terms of like going so you realize you want 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:59.600 to do this and you're at Hope Art, I how 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:04.160 did you go about pursuing it? 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.160 So when I was patting, so we read uh. 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.720 I read Tom's Minimalist Manifesto, right, someone had told me 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.640 about that when I was there, so read it instantly, 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.840 ordered the Anatomy of a Golf Course the next day, 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.040 finished that within you know, another day or two, and 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.679 I found out Tom had this internship program, right, so 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.720 I applied for that and I made it through to 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.680 the finals and I went out to band Into to interview, 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.600 and so it was pretty cool. We got to spend 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.959 the day walking around on McDonald under construction, and. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:39.680 You know, it was pretty crazy. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.960 There was like this random happenstance where Bill Corr and 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.360 Tom were on site up there at the same time, 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.520 and so we kind of all had dinner together a 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:55.040 couple of other perspective interns, I guess, and Bill and Tom, 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:56.400 and I guess. 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.320 George Botto was there. Eric Ivers, so there. It was. 0:12:59.360 --> 0:12:59.959 It was pretty cool. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.800 But Tom and Bill were both talking about these projects 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:07.000 they had in China or upcoming at that point, and 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.240 so I kind of always had that in the back 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:13.640 of my mind. When that first internship with Tom ended up. 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:15.680 Fu you know, I graduated No. Nine, like we just said, 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.120 so the world ended right there were no jobs in 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.880 golf I could write. I wrote hundreds of emails after 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.599 I graduated looking for jobs. You know, Jack Nick the 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.720 Nick was coming wrote back, like, listen, we just fired 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.680 like twenty. People were not looking to take on anybody 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.480 right now. So I kept going with some caddying what 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.000 I ended up and kept in touch with Tom. What 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:35.720 I ended up doing was I went to this like 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.000 heavy equipment operating school in like the middle of nowhere, 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.760 Virginia because I could write to these people like so 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.720 I finally, you know, had this nice interaction with the 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:46.079 local golf contractor. 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.240 So everybody's saying, no, yeah, there's no jobs right now, 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:50.120 you're figuring out. 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.199 I'm going back to Caddy and keep you know, studying 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.240 the great golf courses in the mad area and keep 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.880 writing letters like I would. Wrote hundreds of letters to 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.280 people all all across the world, Like I just to 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.960 do anything, whether it was maintenance, whether it was construction, 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.040 whether it's work for an art like, anything I could 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:09.240 do that I thought could help. 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:10.360 Well. 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.160 So I was talking to this contractor that I ended 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.520 up working for, but so I want to meet him. 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.520 He's like, well, great kid, you know, I'm so glad 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.480 you can tell me all this stuff about golf courses. 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.240 But what can you do that can maybe can you 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.040 get on the tractor and do anything? I was like, 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.280 uh no, you know, I grew up on eighty seven 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.560 second right, Well I know about that. So I went 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.880 to this heavy equipment operating school for like six weeks. 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:32.160 You know. 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.320 They taught me how to run at least basically the 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.280 you know, how to run a back hoo and a 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.760 skid steer and a dozer and things like that. And 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.880 I actually, in the meantime took a I was going 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.920 to take a job at the Southern Hills maintenance department. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.400 I actually ended up I got rid of I dropped 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.680 off a deposit, I let it go, bailed on that, 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.560 and Tony hired me within like three days of finishing that. 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.280 So I went to work for Pablock Brothers for like 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.320 two years and then I always so the. 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.080 Let's talk about this heavy machinery school a little bit. Okay, 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.840 what did you go to? Like class was, yeah, we 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.520 had class in the morning. And what with class like 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.280 getting on these so they. 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:16.680 Teach you a little bit about like you know, some 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.680 of the safety stuff and things like that. And then 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.240 but also it's like you know, how to check grades 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.480 on site. So it's like a lot of guys with 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.840 you know, looking to get just any kind of beer 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.240 bones job they could with like you know, not golf contractors, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.240 like a road yeah, or like some sort of union 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.600 or anything. But so these guys are like, you know, 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.560 they're trying to learn how to do fractions and then 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.360 do like tens of you know, measure slopes and like 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.360 angles and things like that. And I'm sort of snoozing through, right, 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.120 and you know, you have to take the test and 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:49.760 like at the end of the day, and then the 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.320 afternoon was on like on the equipment, you know, actually 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.040 getting time to like you know, learn how to pull 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:57.960 the trigger, you know, pull all the weavers and make 0:15:58.000 --> 0:15:59.240 the thing run and you have to be able to 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.320 dig this deep and this far and keep it clean enough. 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.400 And then they gave you, like, you know, I guess 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:05.280 some sort of license. 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:05.680 I don't know. 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:07.760 I never really did. You don't need them to do 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:08.960 any of this. It's just crazy. 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.920 But do you think do you ever look back on 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.920 that and think that that experience did anything differently than 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.800 ahead you got into like a job right out of 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.560 right out of school, because you went and it's a 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.560 little bit more different path than most. 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:25.480 That was different. 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:29.760 But then I actually I think, well it was. 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:31.680 There's a pattern. I think. 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.440 I suppose the word is like grits. I suppose I'm 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.200 a very driven, like single minded person because what I 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.920 did next after working for Tony or during while working 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.880 for Tony, knowing that Tom and Bill, who I had 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.960 both interviewed for jobs within the past, they had these 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.920 jobs in China. So while I was doing the construction 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.440 for Tony Monday through Friday, I'd go still Caddy Saturday 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:59.160 Sunday at Quaker. But I taught myself Mandarin on Rosetta 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.520 Stone enough and kept telling Tom that I was doing that. 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.480 That like, by the time his project came around, he 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:06.240 had to hire me. 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.000 So so that's I mean, you knew both these guys 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.560 had this project. Yeah, and you and so. 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.000 I learned how to run all the equipment, got experience 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.199 during the construction, and then I was like, what I 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.320 can at least, you know, say a few you know, 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.280 enough to at least prove that I was a lunatic 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.399 enough that you know, it might be worth sending this 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:30.960 kid to the other side of the world to it. 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:35.320 We just give it a shot, right, So it worked. 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:36.080 So it works. 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:40.080 So Tom hires you. Yeah, like two years later, and 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.080 it was it was cool. Actually the first thing we 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:46.360 did was the we worked on his Olympic proposal, which 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:48.600 was pretty cool. Spent some time up in his office, 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.280 and then ended up at Disweal River in the meantime 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.960 for like five months on that crew, and then spent 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.520 probably almost to the better part of two years in 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.120 China with Eric. 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.400 And what was that golf course called in. 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.240 China, Yeah, Simipo Island. 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:12.320 It didn't ever open, right, Nope, So no, it. 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.159 Was completed, and then. 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.000 It was like, I guess they had that like presidential 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:23.200 change during the project. So Sizek Pink came in a 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:27.400 power of kind of halfway through it, and the politics 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.560 really flipped in terms of being pro golf and new 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.000 things like that. So no, it was really never permitted 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:39.720 to open, and we knew like not long after we 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:44.560 completed it. They planted the trees in the greens, and 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.879 they grasped all the bunkers all the way down and 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.280 put some shrubs and things like that and the fairways 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.040 and tried to like disguise it a little bit, but 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:55.600 the last time I checked on Google Earth, it looked 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.120 like it just got dozed over. 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:01.840 To be honest, Well, now that you've been a part 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:07.800 of a ton of projects, m hm, what how I mean, 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:13.240 what were like the emotions like when that happened? What 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:15.119 I mean, it was weird because where you kind of 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.640 pour your soul into something especially well. 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.800 I guess it was like probably a good lesson that 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.960 weren't early on, but at the same rate, it's not ours, 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.479 and you know, pretty quickly, right when you're in China, right, 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:29.800 how many times are you going to come back to 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:30.440 China to the play? 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:31.360 You know, we were kind of. 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.919 Just like, well, maybe we'll come back for one victory 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.560 lap when it's over, play it and uh, you know, 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:40.840 feel good about all the struggles we went through to 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.399 get it done, and you know, if we see it 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.959 again after that, it would probably be something else that 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.040 pulled us back, you know, happened to be there for 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.680 a reason. It's not like make a singular trip all 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:56.000 the way there for that, just because of the difficulty 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:56.639 and stuff. 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:02.320 But the course didn't open either. Oh, it's very much open. 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.320 It's still okay. They had one in Mexico that didn't open, right, 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:08.200 I can't. 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:15.399 Tom did that Baha, I forgot which one it is. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:20.200 That's funny. Actually builds the guy that grew in Saanching 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.200 Bay Bill's course and Hainan we became. 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.520 Very very friendly with, and he'd actually done it growing 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.040 in Mexico and he probably played that Baya Dreams course 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.159 more than anybody in the world. 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:32.680 So he's got to play a couple. 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.800 Of those that like no one else has ever ever 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:35.800 even stepped foot on. 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:38.960 Chris christ is a good guy. He helped us get 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:39.920 through a lot of those. 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:45.520 Difficulties, uh, culturally that go on with working in China 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:46.080 versus here. 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.320 But no, it's not it's not your golf course. It 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.159