1
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,080
Speaker 1: Let's talk for a minute about Akron, Ohio. It's a

2
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,559
Speaker 1: historical site for pop and rock music. It turns out

3
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,240
Speaker 1: it's where the Black Keys met and Devo. It's Chrissy

4
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,040
Speaker 1: hines hometown, the city she wrote my City was Gone about.

5
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,320
Speaker 1: And then that song became the theme for the Rush

6
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,200
Speaker 1: Lim Boss Show, and that makes me feel bad. And

7
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,760
Speaker 1: somewhere in that city there's a Sheraton hotel lobby that,

8
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,160
Speaker 1: for a brief moment in nineteen ninety one, was a

9
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: magic portal. You walked into that lobby and if you

10
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,400
Speaker 1: sang for the right person in the right way, you

11
00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,919
Speaker 1: walked out with a life that was changed forever. If

12
00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 1: that Nicole Brown sang a song called go Outside in

13
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,720
Speaker 1: the Rain for Michael Bivens in that hotel and her

14
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 1: life changed course. And that same night, in that same place,

15
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 1: a young guy who was about to start his freshman

16
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,560
Speaker 1: year at Ohio University tried the same thing.

17
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,920
Speaker 2: I sang for him in a hotel lobby at like

18
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:56,800
Speaker 2: two in the morning, and he called me the next

19
00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,480
Speaker 2: day and he was like, going off for your record deal. Whatever.

20
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,440
Speaker 1: Hayden hi Do was eighteen, a jock with a voice

21
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 1: big enough to fill a Sheriton Hotel Atrium. He sang

22
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,880
Speaker 1: for Michael Bivens, and his life took a detour, one

23
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,960
Speaker 1: that went right through the East Coast family, one that

24
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:19,199
Speaker 1: lasted about a decade, one that involves Beyonce. He's gonna

25
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,360
Speaker 1: tell us about it right now on Waiting for Impact,

26
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:45,360
Speaker 1: a Dave Holmes passion project. While Hayden Hid's life was changing,

27
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 1: so was the rest of popular music. Later in the show,

28
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,639
Speaker 1: We're gonna go deep on the pop charts of nineteen

29
00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 1: ninety one and why that was the year that changed

30
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 1: everything about what got played on the radio with one

31
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,440
Speaker 1: of my favorite writers, Chris Malanfi. You're gonna learn something

32
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,720
Speaker 1: really interesting about the week that changed pop music forever,

33
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 1: the week Nirvana's never Mind took the number one spot

34
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: away from Michael Jackson's Dangerous. But here's what we've learned

35
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,760
Speaker 1: so far about Sudden Impact. We know Sudden Impact was

36
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,360
Speaker 1: one of the first artists to join Michael Bivins East

37
00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,119
Speaker 1: Coast family. We know he got them signed to Motown.

38
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 1: We know Bivins was so enthusiastic about them, so certain

39
00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,520
Speaker 1: they would succeed like Boys to Men ABC BBD, that

40
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 1: he put them in the music video for Motown Philly.

41
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,600
Speaker 1: We know Motown Philly was inescapable in nineteen ninety one.

42
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,120
Speaker 1: The three big places you could watch music videos back then, MTV,

43
00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: VH one, and b ET played it all day long.

44
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 1: We know that after Motown Philly, Sudden Impact changed their

45
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:48,800
Speaker 1: name to White Guys Whytgize, but we don't know why.

46
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 1: We know that, in the wake of Boys to Men's

47
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,440
Speaker 1: success in nineteen ninety one, Bivins began expanding the East

48
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,920
Speaker 1: Coast Family. He signed rappers, vocal groups, singers, and we

49
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,239
Speaker 1: know that one of those singers is someone we now

50
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,919
Speaker 1: know as a vet, Nicole Brown, who joined the East

51
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,800
Speaker 1: Coast Family after angrily singing and Michael Bivins in that

52
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,359
Speaker 1: same magical Sheriton lobby. And we know that in nineteen

53
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 1: ninety two Bivins gathered all his protegees together to record

54
00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,760
Speaker 1: a single and video called One for All four one.

55
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,800
Speaker 1: They did a whole album, actually, East Coast Family, Volume one,

56
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,400
Speaker 1: one four All four to one. The song and the

57
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 1: video are pure nineteen ninety two sac The raps mostly

58
00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 1: ciggity sound like viggety this because that's what rappers did

59
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,760
Speaker 1: that year. It combines elements of the new Jack swing

60
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,040
Speaker 1: sound that was hot at the time with the heavy

61
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,320
Speaker 1: hip hop beats that were becoming more popular. It's what

62
00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 1: we would later call a posse track. Chris Malanfi will

63
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,240
Speaker 1: tell you more about this in a little bit. Besides

64
00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 1: Yvette and white guys, there are a couple standouts in

65
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,360
Speaker 1: this video for me. One a kid who introduces himself

66
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,280
Speaker 1: as Bivins's cousin Fruit Punch. He says, yup, my name

67
00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 1: means fruit Punch, but I don't get out much, which

68
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 1: is an alarming thing for a child to say. There's

69
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,560
Speaker 1: a rap duo called ten ten, two kids who both

70
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,960
Speaker 1: look about ten, both with their suspenders on backwards like

71
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,160
Speaker 1: Chris Cross was doing at the time, and then about

72
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 1: a third of the way through, the guy that told

73
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:25,279
Speaker 1: me should have been huge, Hayden hiding. He only goes

74
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,599
Speaker 1: by his first name, Hayden, a corn fed white guy

75
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,719
Speaker 1: with a sport coat over his shoulder, looking every bit

76
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,559
Speaker 1: the midwestern fraternity boy. He was one chance meeting away

77
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:40,400
Speaker 1: from becoming Hayden can fucking sing, and with a vet's help,

78
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 1: I got in touch with him. Initially, I'm hoping he'll

79
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,679
Speaker 1: be the guy who hooks me up with sudden Impact,

80
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,800
Speaker 1: and I still hope that, but once I start talking

81
00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,680
Speaker 1: to him, I find that I just want to know everything.

82
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 1: He didn't get the fame and fortune he expected when

83
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,000
Speaker 1: he got that phone call from Michael Bivins, but he

84
00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 1: seems genuinely happy. Maybe what he got was something better.

85
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,920
Speaker 2: I was in the East Coast family, so I was

86
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,560
Speaker 2: a solo artist signed to bit ten Records.

87
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,039
Speaker 1: When I speak with Hayden over Zoom, he's in his

88
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 1: basement back in Ohio. He looks about the same as

89
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,800
Speaker 1: he did in the video. He's unassuming friendly. The music

90
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,880
Speaker 1: business is a memory for Hayden now, and probably a

91
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 1: complicated one.

92
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,360
Speaker 2: When my album was due for release, two weeks before

93
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:30,120
Speaker 2: my album was released, the CEO of Motown, Jerald Busby, resigned,

94
00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 2: so they put me on hold, and I was kind

95
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:33,799
Speaker 2: of in a holding patterns.

96
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 1: But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Hayden Haidu grew up

97
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,120
Speaker 1: in Akron, Ohio. He was an athlete, a football player,

98
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,040
Speaker 1: but one who also liked to sing. And in the

99
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,000
Speaker 1: eighties you were supposed to stay in your lane. Mixing

100
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,320
Speaker 1: sports with the arts unthinkable. Zac Efron and Corbyn Blue

101
00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,039
Speaker 1: hadn't even been invented yet. That's a high school musical reference.

102
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,200
Speaker 2: I sang in choir my senior year. I did a

103
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,560
Speaker 2: play by vi Berdie. But this was before you know,

104
00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,200
Speaker 2: now you have athletes that want to get into acting

105
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,960
Speaker 2: because you know, Disney's really popular, and it's the thing

106
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,920
Speaker 2: when I was in high school, like, if you played football,

107
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,040
Speaker 2: you didn't like do the acting thing, you know, I

108
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,039
Speaker 2: mean you were either an athlete or so. I was

109
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,760
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, I was kind of breaking a barrier.

110
00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,359
Speaker 1: I think Hayden's plan was to go to college, but

111
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:22,919
Speaker 1: he wasn't much of a student and his football career

112
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 1: wasn't enough to get him a scholarship. So he applied

113
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 1: to Ohio University and he sang for them.

114
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,359
Speaker 2: I ended up going to OU and was offered a

115
00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,960
Speaker 2: vocal scholarship. I went down and sang for them because

116
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:35,839
Speaker 2: I didn't have the grades.

117
00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 1: But late that summer, just before he was about to

118
00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,040
Speaker 1: start his freshman year, Hayden decided to take bold action.

119
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 2: Before I went down, Michael Vivins, the Belvit Devo, was

120
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:52,240
Speaker 2: doing a tour and they were in Ohio and Afron, Ohio,

121
00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,800
Speaker 2: and that was right when Michael Vivins had founded Boys

122
00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,480
Speaker 2: to Men, So every time he came off tour in

123
00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,279
Speaker 2: this hotel, there were thousands of people going to sink form.

124
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, join that East Coast family.

125
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah right. And a buddy of mine called and

126
00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 2: he's like, dude, you got to get down here in

127
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 2: sink for him.

128
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: When you showed up at that hotel lobby to sing

129
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 1: for Michael Bivens, what did you want? Did you did?

130
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:13,440
Speaker 2: You know?

131
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:15,320
Speaker 1: Like, what what did you picture?

132
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,680
Speaker 2: I think, honestly, I was I had no I had

133
00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 2: no idea. I was so innocent. I wish I could go,

134
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, like I knew I could sing, but I

135
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 2: just got up and just sang, you know, And I

136
00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,280
Speaker 2: didn't I didn't have any you know. My buddy called

137
00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 2: me and I just went up there and all these

138
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 2: people were singing, and actually I was just waiting and

139
00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,240
Speaker 2: I was like the last person to sing for him,

140
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 2: and he just he wrote down my number on like

141
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,000
Speaker 2: the little gum wrapper.

142
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 1: You know what happened next? Bivins called an Offred Hayden

143
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,920
Speaker 1: a record deal. Now you may be asking yourself, how

144
00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,520
Speaker 1: does Michael Bivins have the cloud to just be tossing

145
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,360
Speaker 1: recording contracts out to strangers and share it and hotel lobbies.

146
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,040
Speaker 1: It's a good question and we will try to answer

147
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,040
Speaker 1: it later in the episode. But Bivin told Hayden, I'll

148
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,720
Speaker 1: call you back in two weeks. Write a song. Hayden

149
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 1: had never written a song, but he figured he'd learn.

150
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 1: He actually did go down to Ohio University to start

151
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,360
Speaker 1: his freshman year. But put yourself in his shoes. One

152
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 1: of the biggest pop stars on the planet says, he's

153
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,200
Speaker 1: going to make you a pop star, and you're going

154
00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 1: to focus on Polysi one oh one or whatever. Get

155
00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:20,520
Speaker 1: out of here.

156
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 2: I was wet behind the ears. You know. I was

157
00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 2: a Midwest kid from Ohio. Who you know. I mean,

158
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,440
Speaker 2: I signed my record deal and then I went off

159
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 2: to OU my freshman year, so I didn't even go

160
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,400
Speaker 2: to class. You know. I was like, I'm out of here,

161
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:35,800
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, it was not it was not

162
00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 2: a good mix for me.

163
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,680
Speaker 1: I bet was there money involved at that stage?

164
00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, so when I signed, when I signed the deal,

165
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,320
Speaker 2: at first, yeah, they gave me a little bit of

166
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,320
Speaker 2: money and then I just went to college and he

167
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 2: was like, look, you know, we got to get things

168
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:55,240
Speaker 2: set up and so it was about seven or eight

169
00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,199
Speaker 2: months in and then I started going out to LA

170
00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,120
Speaker 2: quite a bit, and it was just too hard for

171
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,720
Speaker 2: me to do both. You know. My dad was kind

172
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 2: of like, are you sure you want to do this?

173
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,880
Speaker 2: And I was like, I'm out, you know, at eighteen

174
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,080
Speaker 2: years old, get to move to LA and kind of

175
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:07,880
Speaker 2: work on an album.

176
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then once the ball started rolling and you

177
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,520
Speaker 1: got signed, what were you picturing?

178
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,120
Speaker 2: I think in my mind, I thought I was going

179
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,720
Speaker 2: to like be a superstar. Honestly, I think I thought like,

180
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 2: and I don't say this in a bragging way because

181
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 2: I'm older now, but but I don't think I realized

182
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 2: maybe the talent that God gave me. And then when

183
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,319
Speaker 2: I started working with like real professionals and they were like,

184
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 2: you're You're really good.

185
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 1: They settled on an image for Hayden. They wanted to

186
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,760
Speaker 1: make him like a nineties blue eyed soul man. They

187
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:43,000
Speaker 1: recorded an album, and Bivens kept working on Hayden. If

188
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 1: you know the story of New Edition, you know, these

189
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,960
Speaker 1: guys worked their asses off to be the biggest and

190
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,080
Speaker 1: the best, and Michael Bivens expected that kind of discipline

191
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,000
Speaker 1: from his artists.

192
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 2: The Big ten label was more. They were really hands on,

193
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,080
Speaker 2: right you know Mike. Mike's a different dude. Like, you know,

194
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,360
Speaker 2: I would be in an airport and he would be, I, dude,

195
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 2: get on the tart, like, get on the you know,

196
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 2: get up and start singing. He was like old school Motown.

197
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like embarrassing moments like we did a restaurant.

198
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,400
Speaker 2: He'd be like, stand up, start singing and people are like,

199
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 2: what are you doing?

200
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,440
Speaker 1: So wait, so what what does that feel like to

201
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:16,480
Speaker 1: have to do that?

202
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 2: You're like, you're, well, you don't want to crap your

203
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 2: you don't want to crap your pants because you're you know, yeah,

204
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 2: you're you know, every time you do something, it's like

205
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:25,880
Speaker 2: it's live or die with him. You know, he grew

206
00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,199
Speaker 2: up with you know, he was from an era where

207
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,480
Speaker 2: you know, you worked for everything you you wanted to

208
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 2: make you a real artist. Right, So at the time

209
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 2: you don't know that. You know, at some point you're thinking,

210
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,960
Speaker 2: in my am I filling up this guy's ego And

211
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 2: what's the point. What's the point. But then when you

212
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 2: look back, you know, I think he really wanted to

213
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 2: prepare you for you know, you know, I mean new

214
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,240
Speaker 2: addition They're one of the hardest work in groups, you know.

215
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,680
Speaker 2: You know, they had sixteen hour rehearsals of pain, so

216
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 2: he was all about he really wanted you to become

217
00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:54,240
Speaker 2: an artist.

218
00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,680
Speaker 1: If you remember, Evet said she loved that Hayden album,

219
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,199
Speaker 1: An event does not lie. Hayden's proud of it too.

220
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,320
Speaker 1: It's got a cover of Steely Dan's PEG with gospel

221
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,199
Speaker 1: group Take six doing the background vocals. They made a

222
00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 1: video for the first single, Funhouse, with Hayden kind of

223
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,720
Speaker 1: doing a James Dean thing out in the California desert.

224
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,800
Speaker 1: Motown was on board. The album was about to drop.

225
00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,080
Speaker 1: You finish your record, and then then what happens.

226
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,559
Speaker 2: Well, I get home to Cleveland and we shoot a

227
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 2: video and it's like we're ready to go, like we're

228
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 2: looking for a promotional tour two three weeks, and then

229
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,680
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, Joe, you know, I get a

230
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 2: call Gerald Busby's resigned. You know, obviously Motown's on hold.

231
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 1: This is a tale as old as time. A big

232
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 1: executive gets excited about you, signs you to a deal,

233
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,360
Speaker 1: invests some time and money into you, and then that

234
00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 1: executive goes somewhere new maybe they get fired. Maybe they

235
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,400
Speaker 1: just get a new job somewhere else. But you can't

236
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,320
Speaker 1: follow that executive to where they go because you're under

237
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 1: contract to the place they signed you too. You're obligated

238
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,120
Speaker 1: to the play and not the person. And the new

239
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 1: executive comes in, and that new executive has projects that

240
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,040
Speaker 1: they're excited to invest some time and money into, and

241
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,280
Speaker 1: you're not one of them.

242
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,320
Speaker 2: Actually, the album we did was it was a really

243
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 2: good album, but it just it never surfaced because you know,

244
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,680
Speaker 2: when Jerald Busby left Motown, there was quite a hiatus

245
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:18,160
Speaker 2: for a while.

246
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 1: I'll say a couple of things here. One, after I

247
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 1: spoke with Hayden, I emailed him to ask whether it's

248
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,559
Speaker 1: possible to hear that album anywhere, and as of now,

249
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,920
Speaker 1: he hasn't gotten back to me. It might be a

250
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,920
Speaker 1: sore spot. I would understand if it were, but I'm

251
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 1: dying to hear that record. And Two, I tried to

252
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: track down Jerald Buzzby and he died in two thousand

253
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,440
Speaker 1: and eight. But Hayden's album sat on a shelf. It's

254
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,280
Speaker 1: nobody's fault. It's just the way it goes. It's actually

255
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:45,640
Speaker 1: the way it goes. A lot.

256
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,520
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone goes in and makes an album

257
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,560
Speaker 2: and says this is this is going to fail, especially

258
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 2: then because you know at the time, like you know,

259
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,200
Speaker 2: Motown Price spent one and a half million dollars on

260
00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 2: my album. I honestly believe that if we would have

261
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,679
Speaker 2: released that album, it could have been pretty big because

262
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,600
Speaker 2: I would have been like he was kind of marketing

263
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,400
Speaker 2: me as like the new version of Elvis in a way,

264
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,160
Speaker 2: so it was very R and B. But like we

265
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,920
Speaker 2: redid Love Me Tender from Elvis, and it was like

266
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,760
Speaker 2: it was you know, it was just a there was

267
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,280
Speaker 2: nobody in the industry, you know, that was doing what

268
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,360
Speaker 2: I was doing. I always tell my wife, he loves

269
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,280
Speaker 2: Justin Timberlake. I'm like, he stole, he stole everything from me.

270
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,439
Speaker 1: Man, justin Timberlake cannot catch a break this year, can he.

271
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 1: Hayden's debut album is gathering dust. Motown's not releasing it,

272
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,240
Speaker 1: and because he's under contract, nobody else can release it.

273
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: So Hayden is in a holding pattern. He's in Hollywood,

274
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 1: collecting a stipend, playing golf, starting to drink a little.

275
00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,439
Speaker 1: Like his album, He's just sitting there waiting, even.

276
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,600
Speaker 2: Just trying to find some side projects for me to do.

277
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,240
Speaker 2: And at this point, you know, we're becoming like brothers.

278
00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,280
Speaker 2: We're really tight because we've kind of been through the

279
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,240
Speaker 2: war together. And I think in his defense, you know,

280
00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:02,319
Speaker 2: he was pushing this Midwest stern white kid and era

281
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 2: where you know, like you know, there was no cross

282
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,640
Speaker 2: pollination of like music, and he's trying to figure out

283
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,360
Speaker 2: his way and I'm hammering him like, dude, I'm ready

284
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,440
Speaker 2: to go. And through all that, I think we're really close.

285
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,120
Speaker 2: But you know, it was like it was like almost

286
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,319
Speaker 2: it was a year of just you know, I mean,

287
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,080
Speaker 2: I got really good at golf, right, I played a

288
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,480
Speaker 2: lot of golf. I mean that year of not doing

289
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,800
Speaker 2: anything and get twenty five hundred bucks a month is

290
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 2: you know for a twenty year old kid, it's not

291
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,160
Speaker 2: bad when you're living at home. Bad, No, not bad.

292
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, so I was just put on hold. But

293
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,720
Speaker 2: I was still trying to, like I really wanted to

294
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,280
Speaker 2: because I had gotten the la bug now, right, So

295
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, now, you know, before it was like I

296
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,080
Speaker 2: just want to go sing. But then you know, I've

297
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,880
Speaker 2: seen some pockets of fame, and I'm like, you know,

298
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:47,320
Speaker 2: being famous wouldn't be terrible.

299
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 1: Hayden was getting frustrated his college years had passed him by,

300
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,600
Speaker 1: his hopes had been raised and then dashed too many times.

301
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,080
Speaker 1: Something had to give.

302
00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,600
Speaker 2: We did a demo and then we we ended up

303
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 2: doing a couple of other songs outside of what he

304
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 2: was having us to do, and eventually we got to

305
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,120
Speaker 2: deal with Columbia. That was out, you know, that was

306
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,240
Speaker 2: not a part of Michael Bibbins at all. And that's

307
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,760
Speaker 2: when our relationship just it ended. And I've reached out

308
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 2: a few times, but how did you leave it? Well,

309
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,720
Speaker 2: so I you know, at the time we had hired

310
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 2: an attorney. He called Mike and it was like breaking

311
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,520
Speaker 2: up with your It was like the breakup, you know.

312
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 2: It was like, hey, I'm going to sign with Columbia,

313
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,440
Speaker 2: I'm not going to view with fIF ten. And it

314
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,440
Speaker 2: was like it was sad, you know. I mean I

315
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 2: cried a little bit after that, but you know, look,

316
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 2: I was I had probably been on hold for you know,

317
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 2: I had put my life in Mike's hands from the

318
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,720
Speaker 2: time I was eighteen to now we're talking. It was

319
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 2: probably twenty three. So at some point I got to say,

320
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 2: am I going to continue?

321
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:48,480
Speaker 1: You know?

322
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,120
Speaker 2: And I didn't. I couldn't really see the forest through

323
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 2: the trees. I had to make a tough decision for

324
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 2: myself and what I thought was best. I kind of

325
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,560
Speaker 2: moved on. And you know, my attorney was like, that

326
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,680
Speaker 2: was unbelievable. He's like, you two grown men. It just

327
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 2: broke up, like two heterosexual males just broke up.

328
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 1: Now I can't help but notice, as Hayden says this,

329
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,280
Speaker 1: that he's not angry. There don't seem to be any lingering,

330
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 1: hard feelings. It may have been a heterosexual breakup, but

331
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 1: as with a vet, it's pretty obvious Hayden still loves

332
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:24,680
Speaker 1: Michael Bivens. The music world turned upside down in nineteen

333
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 1: ninety one as the smooth listen at work sounds of

334
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 1: Top forty radio gave way to alternative and hip hop.

335
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 1: For some more insight on that, I turned to my

336
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,280
Speaker 1: friend Chris Malanfy. Now, Chris is a music critic, a

337
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 1: pop chart analyst, the host of the podcast Hit Parade,

338
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,240
Speaker 1: But back in ninety one, he was an obsessive just

339
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,760
Speaker 1: like me. Who were you nineteen ninety one?

340
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:52,320
Speaker 3: Let's see a pop fan who also cared about hip

341
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 3: hop and alternative music. A writer for my college music magazine,

342
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 3: A guy who read Billboard every week, because that's the

343
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,720
Speaker 3: kind of nerd I am. I've been that nerd since

344
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,119
Speaker 3: the mid to late eighties, so that's made great.

345
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 1: I love it. And now look at.

346
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,120
Speaker 3: You, yeah and my Bowie T shirt. Fifty years old.

347
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 1: I knew the pop music world that's sudden impact. Evtnicole

348
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 1: Brown and Hayden we're trying to break into really changed

349
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,400
Speaker 1: around this time. But I hadn't really thought about how

350
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 1: that all happened until I got a hold of Chris.

351
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 1: It all boils down to a Barcode scanner.

352
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 3: Ninety one is the year. It's the BCAD moment of

353
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 3: chart following because it's the year of sound scan. It's

354
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 3: the year that SoundScan is added to the album chart

355
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,879
Speaker 3: in May, the Hot one hundred in November, and it

356
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,600
Speaker 3: utterly changes our understanding of how songs and albums become hits.

357
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 1: Billboard Magazine is a music industry trade publication whose album

358
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,679
Speaker 1: and singles charts are the gold standard. It's the singles

359
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 1: chart Casey Caseum used for American Top forty. That's how

360
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,880
Speaker 1: legit it is, and starting in nineteen ninety one, they

361
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,240
Speaker 1: began using Nielsen SoundScan data collected from scanners at record

362
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 1: store cash registers. You bought a record, the person behind

363
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,159
Speaker 1: the counter wave the wand thing at it, it went boop.

364
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 1: That information went to Nielsen, who sold it to Billboard,

365
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: and that's how they compiled the sales chart, which makes sense.

366
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:16,960
Speaker 1: It makes so much sense you kind of have to

367
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 1: ask what had we been doing.

368
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,760
Speaker 3: We had our Billboard had been phoning and faxing retailers

369
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 3: and radio programmers to ask them, give me your top

370
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,840
Speaker 3: thirty records this week or whatever, and then they would

371
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,640
Speaker 3: rank them. It wasn't as if the system was devoid

372
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 3: of data, but it was very imprecise and frankly fudgeable data.

373
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 3: Fudgeable is my favorite adjective for it, because it suggests

374
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 3: all sorts of nefariousness without actually coming out and saying it.

375
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 2: So.

376
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 1: Up until this point, the album and singles charts that

377
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,719
Speaker 1: I had grown up following were tabulated by like rumor.

378
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 3: And what it did was it taught us that the

379
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 3: patterns that we had been assuming albums and singles would

380
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 3: follow were basically all wrong. The simple way I like

381
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 3: to say it is albums open like movies. We used

382
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 3: to think that an album would open somewhere in the

383
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 3: middle of the chart and then rise to number one

384
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 3: or number five or whatever. An album's biggest week is

385
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,119
Speaker 3: its first week, and we only learned that through SoundScan.

386
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,160
Speaker 3: Prior to nineteen ninety one, there'd only ever been six

387
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 3: number one debuts in the history of the album chart

388
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,480
Speaker 3: in like forty years. And I can name him off

389
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 3: the top of my head, Please Don't two by Elton John,

390
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,640
Speaker 3: one by Stevie Wonder, one by Bruce Springsteen, one by

391
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 3: Whitney Houston, and won by Michael Jackson. And after sound scan,

392
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 3: the first one was by skid Row, right right. Not

393
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 3: to disparage skid Row, they were at the peak of

394
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 3: their popularity, but.

395
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 4: Skien were clearly skid Row if you want, like they

396
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,359
Speaker 4: were big for hair metal in nineteen ninety one, but

397
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 4: like they were not even the biggest hair metal band

398
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:54,680
Speaker 4: at the time.

399
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 3: Yet they were the first Scouts sound scan, excuse me,

400
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 3: the first act in the sound scan era to debut

401
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 3: at number one on the album chart. They that's a

402
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 3: record nobody can ever take away from them.

403
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 1: When skid Row debuts at number one with a record

404
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 1: that doesn't even have a single on the radio.

405
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 3: You know, the culture is changing, and what it's told

406
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,920
Speaker 3: you right away is, oh, this is not special anymore.

407
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 3: This is just going to keep happening week after week.

408
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 3: And now if you look at the album chart most weeks,

409
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 3: you know, call it thirty to forty weeks out of

410
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 3: a fifty two week year. The new number one album

411
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,919
Speaker 3: is a debut. It's a brand new album because it

412
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 3: opens like a box office hit. It opens like a movie. Right,

413
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 3: Avengers Endgame doesn't open at number ten and rise to

414
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 3: number one. Avengers Endgame starts at number one and then

415
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 3: gradually drifts down.

416
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 1: That's how albums open to singles charts the top forty.

417
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,439
Speaker 1: You know what Casey Casem used to do. They're a

418
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: combination of record sales and radio airplay. And in nineteen

419
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 1: ninety one, Nielsen also debuted Broadcast Data Systems, an early

420
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: version of Shazam that listened to and report did which

421
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: songs radio stations were actually playing. Previously, Billboard had just

422
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: had to take the word of record stores and radio stations,

423
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: but now they had the real raw data. The big

424
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 1: sound just before the change was adult contemporary Michael Bolton, Wilson, Phillips,

425
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: Amy Grant, which just keep her song Baby Baby in

426
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 1: the back of your mind for later in this series.

427
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: You might want to go to YouTube and watch the video.

428
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: That's all I'm gonna say. It's possible, and I'm not

429
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 1: making accusations here. I'm just saying it's possible that the

430
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: middle aged white men who ran radio stations and owned

431
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 1: record stores might maybe have over represented the middle of

432
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: the road white adult contemporary artists that they were comfortable with.

433
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 1: Like Chris says, it was fudgeable until it wasn't. The

434
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 1: pop charts had reflected what record stores and radio stations

435
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: said people were buying and listening to. In ninety one,

436
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 1: they began to reflect what people were actually buying and

437
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 1: listening to. How then did the pop charts start sounding different?

438
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 3: I mean, you're already you're already seeing hip hop make

439
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 3: a run at the charts prior to sound scan, right,

440
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 3: You've already seen everybody from mc hammer to Vanilla Ice

441
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,120
Speaker 3: to Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch, you know, make

442
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 3: a run. Tone Lok in nineteen eighty nine got a

443
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 3: couple of top three hits. But what changes is that

444
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 3: now it's much more plausible that rap can.

445
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: Top the Hot one hundred, the.

446
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 3: Very first this is not a terribly hardcore street rap record,

447
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,479
Speaker 3: but the very first number one on the Hot one

448
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 3: hundred the week they flipped the switch towards SoundScan and

449
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 3: BDS is set a drift on Memory Bliss by PM Dawn.

450
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 3: That's a very poppy, catchy, mainstream friendly record, which was

451
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 3: already in the top five before they flipped the switch,

452
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 3: but by the following summer baby got back by Sir

453
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 3: mix a lot. It's hard to picture that record spending

454
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 3: five weeks at number one without sound scan accurately itallying

455
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 3: sales and airplay, and then you know, within a few years,

456
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 3: Tupac is scoring, you know, a number one hit. You know,

457
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 3: Puff Daddy is scoring number one hits. Like all of

458
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 3: that is really you know, Bone Thugs and Harmony score

459
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 3: a number one hit. All of that's kind of unimaginable

460
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 3: before SoundScan. Sound scan makes that plausible.

461
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: Like Chris, I was in college that winter when Nirvana's

462
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: never Mind went to number one. It was astonishing something

463
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: so strange and so seemingly unradio friendly becoming an actual hit.

464
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: It was a sea change. I watched it happen, but

465
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 1: it wasn't until just now talking to Chris that I

466
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: thought about how it happened.

467
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 3: So, like, I mean, you know the Nevermind phenomenon, right,

468
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 3: that's unimaginable without sound scan. That's more on the album

469
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: chart than the singles chart. Although Smells like teen Spirit

470
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: is a top ten hit, it goes to number six.

471
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: Just breaking in here really quickly to tell you, I

472
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: could talk to Chris malanfe about what songs peaked at

473
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: what position on the chart all day long, and for

474
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: all of the terrible things the Internet that has done,

475
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: I am so glad it has facilitated this conversation.

476
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 3: But get this, but that fabled moment that everybody talks

477
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 3: about where Nevermind knocks out Michael Jackson's dangerous that is

478
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 3: entirely due to SoundScan. I actually did a whole Hip

479
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 3: Parade episode about this moment, because it's actually a widely

480
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 3: understood moment. According to Billboard's chart dating system, it happened

481
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 3: two weeks into January nineteen ninety two. The honest truth

482
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 3: is that because there's a lag between when Billboard collects

483
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 3: its data and when they date their charts, what really

484
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 3: happened is that basically all of the teenagers who got

485
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 3: Dangerous or some other album for Christmas went to the

486
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: record store and either returned it or used their gift

487
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 3: cards to buy never Mind. Because the data that was

488
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 3: collected the week that never Mind went to number one

489
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 3: was all collected basically like Boxing Day through New Year's

490
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 3: So basically that week that all the kids are home

491
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 3: from school, they at voting with their dollars.

492
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 1: Teenage rebellion by way of gift card. I love it.

493
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: But what we were learning was that the young people

494
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: with disposable income who buy records and drive trends and

495
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: dictate what gets played on the radio, we're going for

496
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: something harder and heavier than what Hayden and Sudden Impact

497
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: slash white guys. We're trying to make the market for

498
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: a blue eyed soul singer or a boy band who

499
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: looks a little like New Kids on the Block was

500
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: less friendly than it seened just a few months before.

501
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: But let's talk about Michael Bivens and how he found

502
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: himself in the position to sign all these acts. Bivin's

503
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: story as a performer begins years before this with new addition,

504
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: but his time as a record mobile begins in the

505
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: spring of nineteen ninety with one song. Do you remember

506
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: hearing the song Poison for the first time. This would

507
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: have been at the end of our freshman year.

508
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 3: I probably was working a shift at my campus job,

509
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 3: which was the Durfy Sweet Shop at Yale in New Haven, Connecticut,

510
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 3: and I'm pretty sure that that's where I heard Poison

511
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 3: for the first time. And that record is just catch

512
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 3: as hell and it leaps out of the speakers like

513
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 3: a rap record.

514
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: Poison sounded like nothing that had been played on Top

515
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: forty radio before. Bell Bivdevou described their sound as.

516
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 3: Mentally hip hop smoothed out on the R and B

517
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 3: tip with a pop feel appealed to it.

518
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: It's a mouthful, but it's accurate. And then after Poison,

519
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: do Me, a song so filthy you couldn't believe you

520
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: were hearing it on the radio in the daytime.

521
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 3: And the fact that Doomy came right after, and Doomy

522
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: was just as huge, and there was I remember, you know,

523
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 3: I was already a Billboard reader in college, and there

524
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: were radio programmers kind of fretting a little bit about

525
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 3: do Me, because like, can we play this record during

526
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 3: you know, sort of the homework hour, The hour when

527
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: the really young kids are listening, you know, like do

528
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 3: they know what?

529
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: You know?

530
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 3: Is he doing her hair? I remember this quote in

531
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 3: a Billboard story of like a radio like, you know,

532
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 3: I'm playing the regular version and we haven't done anything

533
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: to it because they don't actually curse in it. But

534
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 3: it's pretty filthy, you know, and yet they were playing it,

535
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 3: you know.

536
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: But it was that kind of PG thirteen content, that

537
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: hip hop inflected production, that mixture of pop and R

538
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: and B that mentally.

539
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,479
Speaker 2: Hip hop smoothed out on the R and b's hit

540
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: when a Pop Fail Appeal.

541
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that made Motown take notice.

542
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 3: I think that Michael Bivens. But the reason he got

543
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 3: away with, you know, playing with house money as it were,

544
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 3: was that a he had had an enormous hit, and

545
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 3: b he had he was helping the labels solve a

546
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 3: problem they were having.

547
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: You know.

548
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 3: My most recent episode of Hip Parade, the one that

549
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: just came out a couple weeks ago, was about Millie Vanilly,

550
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: And one of the arguments I make about Milli Vanilly

551
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 3: was that whether you know, fraudulent as they were, they

552
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 3: were important to the hybridization of rap and pop on

553
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: top forty Radio in nineteen eighty nine and ninety They

554
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 3: actually even appeared on Billboard's first hot rap single, art

555
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 3: like That. That's a little remembered fact between like Kid

556
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 3: and Play and rob Bas and DJ Easy Rock Like,

557
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: they had enough cred for at least a single or

558
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 3: two to appear on the rap single stret And what

559
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: the problem that Bell biv Devou were solving by ninety

560
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 3: was that they were much more authentic sounding. Yet they

561
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 3: came out of what was previously a boy band. So

562
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: they had pop, but they had hip hop street cred,

563
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 3: and they they you know, nobody was accusing Bell biv

564
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: Devot of being phony, not many anyway, and and so

565
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 3: it sounded authentically hip hop, and yet it was smooth

566
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 3: like pop. And so if I'm a record executive in

567
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: ninety ninety one, I'm like, if Michael Bivens wants to

568
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 3: start shepherding other acts and get me another Bel Bivdavot, Like,

569
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 3: I'm all ears.

570
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: You know a thing I really should have known is

571
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: that somewhere in New Haven, Connecticut, a twenty year old

572
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: Chrisma Lanfe was watching that Motown Philly video and clocking

573
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: the same thing.

574
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: I was and and what's funny about Motown f Philly

575
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: when when Boys to Men show up? I remember being

576
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: slightly cynical about Boys to Men, even though I love

577
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: to Motown Philly the song because I'm like, this video

578
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: is just one long branding exercise and.

579
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: It's it's their first single, and it mentions other artists.

580
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: It mentions ABC and BBD, which is like, it's it's

581
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: big of them. Yeah, you know, include other like promos

582
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: for other artists in their debut single.

583
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: I guess, or it's or it's the price of fame,

584
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: you know, the ticket for entry, right is that Michael

585
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 3: Bivens says, I'll record you guys, but you got to

586
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 3: promote my other acts while you're there.

587
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then in the video, as we're getting our

588
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: family portraits taken old timey style with the cape and

589
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: the the thing that you hold, we meet five young

590
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: men and five white shirts and five neckties called Sudden Impact,

591
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: and that's the first and last time we see them, right, right,

592
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: do you remember that moment? Like, do you remember seeing it?

593
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: Do you remember it? In real time?

594
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 3: All I remember about it, if I'm being honest, to

595
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: reiterate something I said a little while ago. Is this

596
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 3: added to my cynicism because okay, correct me if I'm wrong.

597
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 3: By the time Motown Philly hit or dropped, another bad

598
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: creation had at least had a hit or two playground

599
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: in Aisha Aisha. I think Ayisha was first. Aa was Yeah, yeah,

600
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: and they were both top ten hits, So like, okay,

601
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 3: at least they're promoting an act that's actually had a

602
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: couple hits in BBD the prior year had been huge.

603
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: But like, I'm watching this, you know, Michael Bibvens brand extension,

604
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 3: and I'm sort of like, well, this is a little cheesy,

605
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 3: you know, like he's already promoting an act that doesn't

606
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 3: exist yet. I remembered thinking, like, you know, fair play

607
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 3: to Michael Bibvens, but this is really cheesy, you know, like,

608
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 3: don't hate the player, hate the game.

609
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: Except that phrase didn't exist in nineteen ninety one. Glad

610
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: we should have invented it. Yeah, I know. It is

611
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: an introduction to the Michael Bivens extended cinematic.

612
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 3: Universe, right, another thing that didn't exist in nineteen ninety one,

613
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 3: But that's exactly it.

614
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about Chris for a minute. He's taken

615
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: his obsessions and made a career out of them, and

616
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: so have I. But neither of those careers even existed

617
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: when we were twenty. Chris in nineteen ninety one, where

618
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: did you see yourself at fifty?

619
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 3: I'm not sure.

620
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: Do you have a clear idea of where you wanted

621
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: to go?

622
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 3: I mean, the reason I can't answer this from the

623
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 3: vantage point of nineteen ninety one. I've often said this

624
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: is that a lot of things had to be invented

625
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 3: for me to have this particular career. Like, right through

626
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 3: the nineties, I was writing record reviews for CMJ, making

627
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 3: beer money to do that, while I had a a

628
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 3: completely separate day job. But like blogging had to be invented,

629
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: podcasts had to be invented, The whole ecosystem of online

630
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 3: journalism had to be invented. And then I discovered, Oh so, actually,

631
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 3: if you write about your nerdy obsession, your nerdy passion

632
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 3: about the charts and dissect them and you know, write

633
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: like a critic but analyze the charts, people will want

634
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: to read that. But that didn't really catch on until

635
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: the late aughts and tends. So, yeah, are you happy?

636
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,479
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm real happy with how this whole thing's going. Yeah,

637
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 3: like I said, my brainstorm, My one brainstorm was I

638
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 3: realized that there were critics who didn't really understand how

639
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: the charts worked, and there were chart analysts who didn't

640
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 3: write like critics. And so if you could blend the two,

641
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 3: write like a critic but understand how the charts work,

642
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 3: just because out of my own passion I've been following

643
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: the charts since the early to mid eighties, that could

644
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: be something. And yeah, and so what's great is that,

645
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 3: you know, when folks like you want somebody to talk

646
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 3: at a minutiaal level, like you and I just had

647
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: about how the charts function, but then placing it in

648
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 3: a cultural context, folks generally come to me, which is great.

649
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: I love playing that role.

650
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: So there's today's lesson kids. That thing you love more

651
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: than anything, that thing you know more about than anyone,

652
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 1: keep exploring it, keep learning about it. There's a perfect

653
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: job for you out there. You're just gonna have to

654
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: invent it. But back in the nineties, especially if you

655
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: wanted to be a pop star, you needed other people's help.

656
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: Powerful people could make you and they could break you.

657
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: When we left Hayden, he had just broken up with

658
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: Michael Bivens and biv ten Records. After years of waiting

659
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: for his moment, he got a new manager and became

660
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: a part of a new group.

661
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: He ran into three guys from New Jersey who were

662
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: looking for a lead singer, and we ended up linking up.

663
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: We got together, we made a demo, and we ended

664
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: up leaving Michael Bivens, which I think to this day,

665
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: you know him and I had it since then, so

666
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: it was it was you know him and I was.

667
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: It was almost like a divorce. But that group was

668
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: called Signature.

669
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: Signature is of course spelled as yg NA t U

670
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: r E. I don't know what was going on in

671
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: the nineties with the creative spellings, but Signature's manager was

672
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: about to become a big deal in his own right

673
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: thanks to a daughter who you might have heard of.

674
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 2: Beyonce's dad. Matthews was our manager.

675
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah you heard him, Yeah, Beyonce's dad. And it's nineteen

676
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: ninety eight, Destiny's Child is taking off and those Signature

677
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: had begun as a vocal group in the style of

678
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: the sexy R and B groups of the time like

679
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: Jo Deasy and Drew Hill. Matthew Knowles noticed a change

680
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: in the atmosphere.

681
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: When Destiny's Child at the time went on tour with

682
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: Back three Boys.

683
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: He really changed the direction, right.

684
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, he saw how good Back three Boys did, and

685
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 2: I think he saw dollar sign that he kind of

686
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: changed the direction of kind of what we were doing.

687
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: So we were really more of a real R and

688
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: B group. So we actually were signed to the Urban

689
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 2: Division of Columbia REQ. So it was right around there,

690
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: you know, Carson Daily TRL. I mean we So our

691
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: first tour was we were the opening act for Christina Aguilera.

692
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: It was Christina Aguilera Destiny Shout. There was another group.

693
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 2: We were like the pre opening act.

694
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 1: Right, Just gonna interject here real quick and tell you

695
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: the other group was sole decision. This story just got

696
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: so nineteen ninety nine. My tips frosted themselves.

697
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: We didn't ride it toward us, but we were really

698
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: close with Destiny's Child. We really we wrote the coattails

699
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: of their success because Fiata's dad was our manager. So

700
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: we were doing a mall tour and we were doing

701
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: like we were doing a teen people mall tour with them,

702
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: and then we were doing like outdoor arenas and then

703
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: we went overseas to London and Ireland and did some

704
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 2: stuff over there.

705
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: But this chapter in Hayden's career was the same as

706
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: the last, more waiting for the record label to push

707
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 1: the album, more trying to get his manager's attention, while

708
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: someone else became a superstar of it. This time it

709
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: was Beyonce. When Hayden sang for Michael Bivens in that

710
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 1: hotel lobby, he was a now he was twenty seven.

711
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: We were on tour, we were doing we were singing

712
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: with Deptony's Child. You know, we had done this tour,

713
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 2: we had gone to Europe, we had come back, our

714
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: album still wasn't being released. I had noticed what I

715
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: would say is some shady stuff from Matthew Knowles. I

716
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: was seeing some things that I was like, you know,

717
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: I don't like not taking money from us because we

718
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 2: weren't making money, but like, what's going on? And you know,

719
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: I ended up approaching it. First. I talked to the

720
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 2: guys in the group and said, listen, I'm I'm I'm done.

721
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: Like this is two years the album's not released, Like

722
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 2: what are they doing with us? And I said, look,

723
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 2: here's the deal. I'm I'm, I'm going solo, like I'm

724
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: going to go do my solo thing. I've talked to

725
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: our attorney. He's like, hey, then I got five record

726
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: labels that will sign you tomorrow. Ready, you know. And

727
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: I said, guys, the minute I make it, I'll put

728
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: you on. So I approached Matthew. That conversation did not

729
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: go well. It wasn't life the Michael business thing. It

730
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: just wasn't in a good conversation. I got on a plane,

731
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: I flew home. I was set to go to New

732
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 2: York like the following weekend, and my attorney called and

733
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 2: was like, dude, you're bunny like. Nobody's going to meet

734
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: with you like you. There's there's some really bad rumors

735
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: about you.

736
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: And Matthew Knowles had a lot of power at this

737
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: moment in time, with Destiny's Child blowing up, he had

738
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: proven he could make you or break you. Just ask

739
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: LaToya Luckett or Farah Franklin or Latavio Robertson, and those

740
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: are the people he kicked out of Destiny's Child that

741
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: we know about. We can't say for sure whether it

742
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 1: was Matthew who started those rumors, but we can say

743
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: they worked. Can I take it back? To that call

744
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 1: with your lawyer where when he said, you know, nobody

745
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: wants to take a meeting? What what did that feel?

746
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 3: Like?

747
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 2: Awful? Like everything? I mean it was. It was awful.

748
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 2: It was terrible because that's that had been, that had

749
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: become my identity, right. I mean I went from like,

750
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 2: you know, I was like I lived in a small

751
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 2: little community in between Akron and Cleveland, and Cleveland's not

752
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: that big. When I came back from fifth ten, man,

753
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: I mean I was like the shit, you know, like

754
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: he had made it. Not many guys, you know, Lebron

755
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: James made it, you know what I mean, James Ingram

756
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 2: made it, but like nobody from my era, you know

757
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like I had made it. Like I

758
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 2: had credibility with the urban crowd, with the you know,

759
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: and I mean so yeah, man, my pride and ego,

760
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: you know, that's what it was devastating. You know. Even

761
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 2: my friends are like, dude, do you need to talk

762
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 2: to someone? And I'm like, I'm good, But deep down,

763
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 2: you know, it was like.

764
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: It wasn't good. Hayden was nearly ten years into his

765
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: music career and he was out of options. He stayed

766
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: in Ohio. He got a job selling used cars.

767
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: I went through like a you know, I mean, I

768
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 2: went from playing even though you're the opening act right

769
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 2: playing an Arenas to like I had to go sell

770
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: cars and I live in a community where they're.

771
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: Like, dude, what happened?

772
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: And I just I would act like nothing was wrong.

773
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: But it got it got pretty bad to me, so

774
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: I ended up. You know, I started drinking a ton,

775
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 2: just fell into like a really bad like drinking depression.

776
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: Things go sideways in a million different ways for everyone.

777
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: Yep, no matter what it is absolutely.

778
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: That you set out to do in life, you know,

779
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: jobs go away and plans change, there is a special

780
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know if shame is the word

781
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: that the world makes you feel. If your plan was

782
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: an artistic one. There is something about, you know, going

783
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: back to that hometown after going to the big city

784
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: to make your dream happen and having it not pan

785
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: out the way that you had planned that can make

786
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: you feel a different kind of way.

787
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean, you know, shame is Shame's pretty dangerous, right, Like,

788
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: you know, you have guilt and shame, right, and you

789
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: know you're guilty because you did something wrong, right, But

790
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: shame is like the penance that you give yourself for

791
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: doing something. So you know, people don't jump off bridges

792
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: because they're guilty. They jump off bridges because they're filled

793
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: with shame, and shame is like, you know, and that's

794
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: I think you're exactly right. I think most of my friends,

795
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 2: if I ask them, what are you really passionate about,

796
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 2: they would say the Cleveland Browns, And I am too right.

797
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: But it's not the same when you're passionate about something

798
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 2: artistic people who are like working to you know, I mean,

799
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: think about how many people you know who are like

800
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: playing in bars and doing local things just because they

801
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 2: love to sing, and they would not trade that for

802
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 2: the world, because it, like it stirs up emotions inside

803
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: of you, it feeds your soul. But most people either

804
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 2: have something, but they never want to take the chance,

805
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: or they've never even opened up the door the opportunity

806
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: to figure out what they're passionate about. So that small

807
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: group of people, it's hard. It's hard to go from

808
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: like doing that to getting a regular and not that

809
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 2: that's I don't want to say regular, but you know,

810
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 2: I yeah, Like that's why you see so many fame

811
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: like sports stars when they retire, they get super depressed,

812
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: like I didn't want to do I wasn't built to

813
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 2: be a regular person. There's a lot of shame when

814
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: you're artistic and you fail, because it's also like, if

815
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: you fail at your job, most of the time, you

816
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: didn't create that product. You're selling someone else's product. When

817
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: you're an artist, right, or you're a writer, that's your product,

818
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 2: that's you. They're not. So you feel like you're not

819
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 2: only rejecting my I'm in sales now, right, I'm in

820
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: sales for a living. It's a company, says, we don't

821
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 2: you know I'm in I'm in a consultant for a

822
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 2: technology company. If they don't like our backup recovery service,

823
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 2: I don't hang up the phone and go, God, why

824
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: don't they like that? I'm like yeah, but if they

825
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: don't like your song, You're like, wait, why no, no, no,

826
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 2: why don't What don't you like about it?

827
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: You said something that that I want to like push

828
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: back on a little bit. You said, you know when

829
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: when you when you you know, so go for your

830
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: dreams and you fail, a certain thing happens. Do you

831
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: think that you've failed?

832
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: No? I don't think that failed. No, I think I

833
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: was thrown a curveball or it, just like sometimes I

834
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 2: think it's things just are meant to go, you know,

835
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: the way that what our expectations are, you know, expectations

836
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 2: are resentments waiting to happen, right, And you can put

837
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 2: expectations on things. And I think what my expectations were

838
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: from when I started to when it ended were very different.

839
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: But I don't think it was a failure because I think,

840
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 2: you know, I think that's failure is a strong word.

841
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: So I think you're right. I don't think it was

842
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: a failure. It just didn't end the way that I

843
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: probably envisioned in the beginning. Right, But where I am

844
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: now was nowhere where I envisioned. You know, I'm sure

845
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 2: it's the same for you, right, Like what you're doing

846
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: now is not at all what you thought you'd be

847
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: doing at twenty one.

848
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: Sure, right, Yeah, I'm I'm not as rich as I

849
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: would like to do, right, But I'm happier than I

850
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: thought I did.

851
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and if you were, Yeah, And happiness has

852
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: nothing to do with like how much money you have.

853
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: No, not at all, not at all, you know.

854
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: I mean it's nice, you know, like not having to

855
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 2: worry about paying the bill. Ever, it's fantastic.

856
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: I'm sure that would be lovely, but.

857
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: I would spend it on some crap I didn't need anyway.

858
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: I don't think Hayden failed. I don't think Hayden thinks

859
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: Hayden failed. And yet as we talk, I keep trying

860
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 1: to figure out how it could still happen for Hayden.

861
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm trained to think in those terms, even as we

862
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: talk about how small minded it is to think in

863
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: those terms. You know, I want to fix it, but

864
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 1: I can't fix it because it's not broken.

865
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: I've had some opportunities, Dave, I've pat you know. I

866
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 2: had the executive producer of the Voice called me and say, hey,

867
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 2: you know, I became friends with a guy named Jeremy

868
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: Spun who is pretty high up with the show, The Voice,

869
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: and he's reached out to me and I sent him

870
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 2: a couple of videos of me singing, and the executive

871
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 2: producer of the Voice was like, hey, you can get

872
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: through all the roundings. We'll push you into the TV

873
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 2: round if you want to do it. And I just

874
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 2: I just have no desire, Like it's just I'm just

875
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 2: like I just have really embraced like, you know, first

876
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 2: of all, when you sign that contract, you sign a

877
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 2: contract like you're obligated to them right for a certain

878
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 2: amount of time, And I just I wouldn't do that

879
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 2: to my kids.

880
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: Hayden doesn't have the music career he thought he would have.

881
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: What he has instead is a life.

882
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: I'm coming up to almost eleven years of being sober

883
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: at the end of this month. So I think through

884
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 2: all of that and seeing what I have now and

885
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 2: just by the grace of God being sober. I think

886
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: for some of it, it's like for me, I look

887
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: back and go, you know, I don't know, like I

888
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 2: might not have made it through being an artist. I

889
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: don't think I ever wanted the risk going back and

890
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: doing that because when you really have sobriety, like nothing

891
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 2: really comes in front of that because you know how

892
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 2: bad it was before. So it's like, I think all

893
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: of this was kind of a precursor to where I

894
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: am today, and like, you know, having a life and

895
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 2: being over and all of those things, I think has

896
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: been much more rewarding than like having a little bit

897
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: of fame or something else and then being blessed with

898
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: four kids who you know, luckily they've never really seen

899
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 2: their dad like as a drunk. You know, I always

900
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 2: felt like I was. I sort of thought I could

901
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: like make a difference, right, And the only way I

902
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 2: thought I could make a difference was by like being

903
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: this singer and selling out concerts and being known for that.

904
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: And what I've realized through all that is, you know,

905
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: I can share my story, my hopes and my share

906
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 2: my story with people, and I can be a difference

907
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 2: that way.

908
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: Hayden II do. He survived nearly being famous, he survived

909
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: the shame of coming home. He's made his impact, and

910
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: he's happy. And that's good because it's impossible not to

911
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: root for the guy. In the meantime, I've done a

912
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: little more digging on Sudden Impact. I have found one

913
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: article about them, and it's not even an article. It's

914
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: a stub of an article from a local Virginia newspaper's

915
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: web site. It came up in a Google search, and

916
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,439
Speaker 1: in the one line that I can read, they mention

917
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: a Todd and Noel, but only one full name, Aaron kin.

918
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: So I searched for Aaron Kine Sudden Impact, and that

919
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: is the guy for sure. That's the guy in the middle,

920
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: the guy with the clip on Bowtie who looks like

921
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: he's late for his shift at Buca di Beppo. He's

922
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: still making music. He's got a YouTube channel, and he's

923
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: on Facebook and he's friends with Hayden. So I asked

924
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 1: Hayden to put in a good word for me, and

925
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: he says he will. Folks, we are one step closer

926
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: to the inside of Sudden Impact. It's happening. We'll see

927
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: how we do next time. On Waiting for Impact, a

928
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: Dave Holmes passion project. This has been an Exactly Right

929
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: production written by me Dave Holmes, produced by Hannah Kyle Crichton, recorded,

930
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: mixed and sound designed by and Epen. Additional engineering and

931
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: assembly by Analise Nelson, Music by Ben Wise, artwork by

932
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 1: Garrett Ross. Executive produced by Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia hard Stark

933
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 1: and Danielle Kramer. Follow the show on Instagram, Facebook, and

934
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: Twitter at exactly Right and follow me at Dave Holmes.

935
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: For more information, go to Exactlyrightmedia dot com. Binge The

936
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: show add free on Stitcher Premium for a free month.

937
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: Head to Stitcherpremium dot com slash Impact and enter promo

938
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: code Impact when you select a monthly plan, listen, subscribe,

939
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or

940
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.