1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: iHeart podcasts, bring you the ultimate Summer of love Tree. 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 2: This is famously Available. 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Famously Available. I am one of 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: your dating besties, Dianna Stagliano, and I'm here with my 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: very good new dating. 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: Bestie, Kathy Swarts. I'm right here with you. So excited 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: to catch up with you on girl chat. What's going 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: on in your life? And happy belated birthday, dear, thank. 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: You, my darling. This is so exciting because usually it's 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: me and Ben and listen, I really love Ben. I 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: think he's a gem, a true gem. But like, how 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: much fun is it that you and I can just 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: talk girl to girl about all of the things that 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: are going on. This makes me so very happy. 15 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: Kathy, so let's jump in. Tell me what's been going 16 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 2: on with you and then I'll tell you all the 17 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: fabulous and it's not that's been going on in my life? 18 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: Oh my god, what is going on? Okay? I just 19 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: turned forty four, I know. 20 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 2: Spring child. You look fabulous. 21 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: Thank you, darling, Thank you so many good things. I 22 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: have so much joy and peace in my life right now. 23 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: My birthday was amazing and it was just super low key. 24 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: It was just me and my friends and the women 25 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: that I love. And it's not my first single birthday, 26 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: but I will tell you this, it's the first birthday 27 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: that I didn't drink alcohol, because as you know, I 28 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: don't drink anymore. And it was one of the best 29 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: birthdays that I have ever had. I just had such 30 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: a wonderful week being surrounded by great people. I got 31 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: to do some filming with some bachelor bachelorettes. Really that 32 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: was delightful. And I just I have many wonderful surprises. 33 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: Thank you guys for sending me some Crumble cookies. I 34 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: enjoyed every last bite. And I have tons of flowers 35 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: which just bring me so much joy. 36 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: So wait, let me ask you if I mean I 37 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: remember back you've been single? How long? 38 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: Several years? 39 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: Okay, so it was? It was it felt weird to you? 40 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: Did it feel weird to spend your birthday? You said 41 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: with people that love you? And I'm assuming people you love. 42 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: All women, all women. I will tell you that a 43 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: man sent me the most beautiful bouquet of flowers. 44 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, well look at all those beautiful oh gorgeous. 45 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: Well I want to hear, I want to hear about 46 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: that man, But I you know my birthdays. I'm a 47 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: few years older than you, the as everyone knows. But 48 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: I remember when my husband died and we're coming upon Christmas. 49 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 2: Holidays I will say are still tough for me. Birthdays 50 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: are tough because it's just marching through another year, another 51 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: trip around the sun, which I'm thrilled it beats the 52 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 2: alternative for sure. But I have trouble celebrating my birthday 53 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: being made the center of attention because I don't have 54 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: anyone to share it with. Yes, my children, I love them. 55 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: They always make a big deal about me for my birthday, 56 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: but I still my husband made such a big thing 57 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: about my birthday, so it still feels empty to me. 58 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: I love that for you, Kathy, though, because you were 59 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: married for so many years. What a great example and 60 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: a way for him to set the stage for this other, 61 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: really wonderful part of your life. Like you have a 62 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: whole other life to live, Kathy, which is really beautiful. 63 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: And when you do find someone and you are dating someone, 64 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: they do have big shoes to fill, right, What a 65 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: beautiful story that you had this man. And that's not 66 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: dismissing that there are ups and downs and marriages and relationships. 67 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: But what a wonderful gift that you had this man 68 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: that made you feel so loved and so beautiful and 69 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: celebrated you on your birthday. Like that's really beautiful. 70 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: Well, you know, birthdays have always been a big thing 71 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: in our family. So yes, it's great. It's great to 72 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: be celebrated by your children and your friends. And every 73 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: year somebody has a party for me to go out 74 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: for dinner, the cake, the whole thing, and it's always fun. 75 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: But I never forget those fun birthdays. And then now 76 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: here we are, you know, barking up the tree of 77 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I have to say, when I 78 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 2: was on the Bachelor, everyone said, you know, I was 79 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: crazy for Christmas, and literally my house is already decorated. 80 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: I saw your Instagram going through all of your little 81 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: Santa clauses, little keys, I saw. 82 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, well I made I need appointed a lot of 83 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 2: those since that you know represents years of work. But 84 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 2: I love but I will be I'll be honest, It's 85 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: very difficult for me to decorate to get through the 86 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: holidays because I love my family and I love this celebration. 87 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: But I always I dreaded in a way as well, 88 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 2: and I think people who have lost spouses or been 89 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: through a divorce or lost to child loss. In general, 90 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: the holidays are tough for people, or at least for me, 91 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 2: but I think many people who have suffered loss, because 92 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: your mind goes automatically back to quote unquote better times 93 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: when your family was together, when you have that spouse. 94 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: So for me, putting up the tree and playing the 95 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: Christmas music, I'm going to cry that I did with 96 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: my kids and my husband. It's really hard. And I 97 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 2: don't know if that's hard for you, buddy, It is hard. 98 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: So much, and I am so glad we were able 99 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: to do this today because I just, I just genuinely 100 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: love you and your openness, and I love that we 101 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: are in two different walks of life, you know what 102 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: I mean. I believe I'm wise beyond my years, but 103 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: that's because of the thousands of dollars worth of therapy. 104 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: But it's neither here nor there. But I just relate 105 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: to you on so many levels. But what we are 106 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: going to do right now is we're going to give 107 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: two different perspectives, and I love that so so although 108 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: we have walked through similar things, which is both grief, right, 109 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: you walked through the physical loss of a loved one, 110 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: a spouse, and what I equate divorce to is grief. 111 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: I have had to do is mourn that relationship and 112 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: be app to bed. 113 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: Well, that's why d that's why not to interrupt, but 114 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 2: that's why I always say. People say, oh, Kathy, your 115 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 2: husband died by suicide. That must be the worst thing. 116 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: How do you move on? I always say the same thing. 117 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 2: Loss is loss, and your divorce, losing a child, losing 118 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: a spouse, losing a job, whatever the loss is, we 119 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: all have to learn to adapt and how to walk forward. 120 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: And in my case, I've done. I also have spent 121 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 2: thousands on therapy, but I'm glad I did because I 122 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: walk in the light now. I walk happily looking forward 123 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 2: to the next day of my life, you know, to 124 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: what surprises. I wake up grateful every day. 125 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think you emanate that, Kathy. I really 126 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: think you do a great job of emanating that. And 127 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,559 Speaker 1: you have a wonderful story of someone who has overcome grief. 128 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: So what I want to touch on here is that 129 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: we're very different in the sense that I don't I 130 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: really enjoyed my birthday as a single person I really 131 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: really grieved the loss of my marriage, and I put 132 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: that one to bed. There was when I was still 133 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: living in the same home with my ex husband and 134 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: my children. Those first were really hard because we were 135 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: still trying to pretend to be a family. It was 136 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: just that it was torture or the entire time. And 137 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: I don't feel that anymore. I feel, you know, it's 138 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: funny that we're doing this dating show because someone has 139 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: big shoes to feel for me, like really big shoes 140 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: to feel Kathy, because I'm very comfortable on my own. 141 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: I am not out seeking a relationship. If something lands 142 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: in my path and it is the right person and 143 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: it's really great, I will joyfully welcome that. I am 144 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: very secure on my own. I am very confident on 145 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 1: my own. My birthday as a single woman was amazing. 146 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: I woke up in a hotel after spending the day 147 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: with a bunch of women that I love, laughing and 148 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: being together, and I woke up with a heart full 149 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: of gratitude with the love that I have for these women. 150 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: What a beautiful experience we've all been the lead of 151 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: a television show. I looked around that room at these 152 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: women and just smiled because I thought, no one will 153 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: ever know what it has been like for us, what 154 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: a great group of women to be a part of. 155 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: And my heart was so flipping full, Kathy. And then 156 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: I got to come home, and I got to sit 157 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: in my own really clean house. Yeah, and I got 158 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: to take a nap. I got to meet a friend 159 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: in the afternoon for coffee, and then I got to 160 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: go to Trigger Jos and buy all my favorite things. 161 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: And then I got to come home and there were 162 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: cookies on my doorstep from Famously Available, and there was 163 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: the largest bouquet of flowers from a man that I 164 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: find attractive and I enjoy conversation with. But the truth 165 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: the matter is I spent my birthday the way that 166 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: I want to. I spent it with the women that 167 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: I love the most. Right seaking women, Kathy have put 168 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: on boots and trudged through the absolute mud with me 169 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: when I was at my lowest, and not one of them, 170 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: not one of them tossed me out like a bag 171 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: of trash because it was. 172 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: Too much right. 173 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: This group of women that were here proved to me 174 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: that I'm not a broken little girl, that I am 175 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: worth loving. 176 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 2: A couple of things you said I, first of all, 177 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 2: on the shoes to fill. No one's going to fill 178 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: my and nor do I want another man to fill 179 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: my husband's shoes. I'm looking for a new chapter in 180 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: my life. So that's maybe one difference, or maybe it 181 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 2: was just your tradition for but the other thing, where 182 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: I think my age is has helped me a little bit. 183 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: I don't a lot of people when when someone dies 184 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: by suicide, they'll say, you know, what did you do wrong? 185 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: I didn't do anything wrong, and I don't need when 186 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: you said, toss me out like yesterday's trash. I don't 187 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: need anyone to tell me my value. I have lived 188 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: a lot of life. I celebrate who I am every day, 189 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: and whether that's with men or women, I don't need 190 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 2: people to bolster me up. I need friends, I need support. 191 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: We all need that, but I don't. I don't let 192 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: anyone determine my self worth except for me, and I 193 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: think that comes I wasn't always that way. But but 194 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: it sounds like maybe your divorce was a little more 195 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: acrimonious than than some Maybe not. And if your ex 196 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: husband made you feel like a bag of trash, I'm 197 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: really sorry, because you are a wonderful woman, and I 198 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 2: think that's sad. So I hope that you can get 199 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: to a place where you can have a great birthday 200 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: by yourself or with your friends. But don't ever, I 201 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: would My advice that you're not asking for is don't 202 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: let any person ever make you feel like yesterday's news, 203 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 2: yesterday's trash, a bag of trash, anything that has that 204 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 2: negative pejorative connotation. Because you are a lovely woman. I've 205 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: gotten to know you. You're lovely, you're smart, you're charming, you've 206 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: got great kids, you have so much going in your life. 207 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: Having said all that, I don't need a man to 208 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 2: make me feel complete. I am complete just the way 209 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 2: I am. I would love to find someone. It will. 210 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 2: I think the relationship I'm looking for will absolutely look 211 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 2: different from my relationship with my husband. I mean, I 212 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 2: was married almost forty six years. We raised kids, we 213 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: moved homes, we built careers, all of those things that 214 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 2: I'm not looking to do now. But I will say 215 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 2: I ventured I was going to get into this. The 216 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 2: reason I asked you about your dating life, I had 217 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 2: a really bizarre I've had some dates, and as I 218 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: said to Ben when we talked, I struggle to find 219 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: men to date because my age belies my energy level, 220 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 2: and I have lots of energy to do fun things, 221 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 2: and I'm adventurous and I have a big heart, and 222 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 2: my heart, while it was shattered when my husband died, 223 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: it has grown and it's open and ready for the 224 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 2: next relationship. That is all a preamble to say that 225 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: for me, dating apps have not been great, which is 226 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: why I'm so excited about this opportunity, because people who 227 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: know me are going to set me up, hopefully on 228 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 2: these great dates. I had a very good friend who 229 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: I've known forty something years called me from the East 230 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: Coast and said, I think I have a guy for you, 231 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: and I said, okay, I was actually going to visit 232 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: them for a weekend. So that's when I met this guy, 233 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 2: and it was unbelievable. I thought, oh my gosh, you know, 234 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: this is my time. I've been through, kissed a lot 235 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 2: of frogs, all the things that we say when we're dating. 236 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: I remember you sharing yeah about him when we were 237 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: at the Jonas Brothers Concerts whatever a month or so 238 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: ago ago. I remember you were really excited. 239 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: I was because we talked on the phone and I 240 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 2: thought I can't. I learned a couple of things when 241 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: Ben asked what kind of guy I was looking for. 242 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 2: You know, I do want a guy who laughs and 243 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 2: loves adventure. This guy a little more circumspect, a little 244 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: more quiet, like my husband was dry since humor and 245 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 2: I So the thing I've learning is there's always lessons 246 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 2: to learn, no matter how old you are, no matter 247 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 2: how many men you date. This guy the red flag 248 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: for me was his wife died about seven months ago, 249 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: maybe eight months ago now, but she had had cancer 250 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: and had suffered for almost two years. And so I thought, okay, 251 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 2: he may not be ready to date, but we have 252 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: to be vulnerable. We have to put ourselves out there. 253 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: Men are not coming to our door and knocking. So 254 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 2: you know when you said, if I meet a man, 255 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 2: they're not going to come to your door, we have 256 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 2: to put the energy in. So I did and it 257 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 2: went great. And then he asked me to come back 258 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 2: for a five day four days, to go to a 259 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: football game with him, to go out for dinner with him, 260 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: to go to a shrimp a party, a neighborhood shrimp 261 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: oil or something, some you know, neighborhood gathering go to. 262 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 2: We had all these plans. I get back there, staying 263 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 2: with my friends again, and I'm there twenty minutes and 264 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: he tells me that he's dating a woman that he 265 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 2: met before me. Yeah, they'd had six glorious dates in 266 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: six days. And I just looked at him and I said, 267 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: why didn't you understand he was still calling me? He 268 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: was still he. 269 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: Had you still come to his home to visit? 270 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: Yes, and I said so when he told me, I said, 271 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 2: why didn't you call me and tell me? And he 272 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: said because I thought we were dating? And I thought 273 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 2: I owed it to you face to face. And I said, 274 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 2: as kindly as I could, No, we weren't dating. This 275 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: weekend was to see if we were going to date. 276 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: And in that moment, I felt the woman everything he 277 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: told me he was looking for. He you know, he 278 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 2: said he liked that I was independent, he liked that 279 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 2: I have my own podcasts and that I do things 280 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: with bachelor. He said, I'm not looking for a woman 281 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: who needs me. I'm looking everything. We were so aligned. 282 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: So when he said that, I was stunned, and I said, 283 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: I wish you had called. It would have made so. 284 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 2: I spent four days with my friends who i've known 285 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: them for years. It was a lovely visit with them, 286 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: but I was so humiliated because all of the people 287 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 2: in that neighborhood. I know these people, I've known them 288 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: for years. They're saying, how's it going with them? You know? 289 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 2: So it was really hard and here so for me 290 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: at this age, and I was going to ask you, 291 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: if where you are in this? For me, every date, 292 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: every experience I have, I try to take a lesson 293 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: from and I always say things like, well, Kathy, you 294 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: know he he hadn't evolved, and not from the death 295 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: of his wife. He said he was ready to move on, 296 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: but he really wasn't. And I feel like I should 297 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: have I'm not being hard on myself, but I should 298 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: have said, he's in the candy store, I'm ale one 299 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: and I'm great chocolate. You know, I'm just European fabulous 300 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 2: chocolate chocolate. Thank you. But he's he's looking down at 301 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: Aisle six go and what else is there? 302 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: Ned They're not long lasting. 303 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 2: Right, My metaphor is exactly My metaphor is I want 304 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 2: to be the girl at the checkout line. I don't 305 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 2: want to be And so I think I was trying 306 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: to give him grace that maybe he was ready to 307 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 2: find his partner because she had had cancer. He told 308 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: me he was ready. But I've got to tell you 309 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 2: it was it was a gut punch because I just thought, 310 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,239 Speaker 2: you know, you have to there has to be you 311 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 2: have to open your heart, you have to be vulnerable, 312 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 2: and really you have to be lucky. So it was rough. 313 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: Here's what came to mind for me is that you're 314 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: telling me that men don't change at any age. 315 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 2: I don't think they do. I really don't think they do. 316 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 2: People have asked me if you and I will tell you, 317 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 2: he asked me. And people can't believe this, but he 318 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: asked me, if things didn't work out with her, if 319 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: he could reach out to me in a month. 320 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely not, absolutely not. I will be no one's second choice. 321 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I am not your learning experience. No. 322 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 2: And then he said, well, could I call you? I've 323 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 2: listened to your podcast. You would give such great advice. 324 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: Could I call you? And I said, I said, I 325 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: don't think so, because I don't give dating advice to men. 326 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: I thought I was going to date. 327 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: Hey, Kathy, do you know what was a really hard 328 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: lesson for me? 329 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 2: Yeah? 330 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: Thank you is a complete sentence, Yeah, you're right, Well 331 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: thank you is even better. 332 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I try to walk away with grace, 333 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 2: and I'm proud of myself the way I walked away 334 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: with that. But I think the lesson for me is 335 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: the same lesson for you. And that's why I want 336 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 2: to hear about your dating experience lately. I always say, 337 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 2: listen to what people do, men and women, not what 338 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 2: they say. Their actions will tell you who they really are. 339 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: And that's what made it hard with this guy. His 340 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,239 Speaker 2: words and action. I mean, guy can really kiss, you know. 341 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: He had his arms around me even the day that 342 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 2: he told me so his actions and his words blide 343 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 2: what he said to me, and that was so difficult, 344 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 2: and I thought, oh boy, men don't change. That's kind 345 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 2: of what I thought I'm in. This is something I 346 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: would have to deal with until I'm lucky enough to 347 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 2: meet the right one. 348 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: My gosh, thank you so much for sharing that. And 349 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: I just let me say, like woman to woman, friend, friend, 350 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: someone who cares about you, I'm really sorry that you 351 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: had to go through that. I there's a million different ways, 352 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: and we can run the gamut here of there's a 353 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: million different ways that he could have handled that stop 354 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: letting you travel to see him and not tell you 355 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: that was just poor choice, man, or choice, poor choice. 356 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: When you're doing long distance, there has to be this 357 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 1: open means of communication before you hop on an airplane 358 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: to go and see someone. By all means, you're right 359 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: save someone. 360 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: I have to be honest. If he called me. People 361 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 2: have said, if he calls you, you know, would you 362 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 2: talk to him. There's a part of me that wishes 363 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 2: he would call me because when he said, you know, 364 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: I'm going to start I'm going to date. I'm going 365 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: to date more women. Do you know what I said 366 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 2: to him? You should. You should date a lot of women, 367 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: and then you're going to realize that I was the 368 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 2: best woman you met me. You met me quickly and 369 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: too bad you didn't realize it, which I know sounds pompous, but. 370 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: Hey, listen, do you know what I'm going to tell you. 371 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: When he does call, don't answer the phone. There are 372 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: pieces of us that we have to listen to. Our gut. 373 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: It is literally our soul telling yeah purpose to put 374 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: us on the right path, and he's not it. Kathy. 375 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 2: I know, but I thought it was strange d when 376 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: he said to me when he said, you know, I'm 377 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 2: going to date. I can't remember if he asked me 378 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 2: if I was dating other men. But I always find 379 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: that a strange question when men do ask me that, 380 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 2: because I when I meet a man i'm interested in, 381 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: I want to I want to go down that road 382 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: and see if there's a relationship they're worth developing. 383 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: Okay, this is a question that I'm sitting in. I 384 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: am wondering, is that I am casually dating? 385 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry getting flowers from a guy's casual dating. 386 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 2: I want his name. I need his name. 387 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: I will not give his name. I will not. 388 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 2: Are you saying that's casual. 389 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: We are friends, we have known each other for some time. 390 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: We're friends of friends. We have decided a few weeks 391 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: ago that both of us are interested in something more 392 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: exploring what that is. He is older than me. 393 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 2: Bye, I'm much older. 394 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: I think about fifteen years. 395 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 2: He should be dating me. 396 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, I'll hook up. 397 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 2: I remember. Excuse me? Did we just have the conversation? 398 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 2: I don't take somebody sloppy seconds. 399 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: No, it's not sloppy seconds. It could be that he 400 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: is wonderful. He just wasn't right for me and he 401 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: could be really right for you. I don't see anything 402 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: wrong with that. What I'm getting at is there is 403 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: the age difference. I don't make rash decisions, Kathy. I 404 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: almost think things through obsessively, and most of that comes 405 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: from trauma. Divorce I have made it very clear has 406 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: been really, really awful for me. It was very trauadic. 407 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: I don't know that I want to get married again. 408 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: Living with someone again really terrifies me. All of those things, 409 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: and I realize those are my pieces to carry. And also, 410 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: in the same sentence, I'm telling you that I am 411 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: open to being with someone and hopefully finding a great 412 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 1: love of my life. So what I'm asking you is 413 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: I turned forty four, he's fifty, almost fifty nine. He's 414 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: like you, Kathy. He sees what he likes and he 415 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: wants it, and he's not messing around. He would like 416 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: to be seeing me, he would like to only be 417 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: taking me out, he would like to only be holding 418 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: my hand in public. 419 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 2: Have a rule, so I know what he wants, But 420 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 2: now I want to know what do you want? 421 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: At a really hard time with public displays of affection, 422 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: really hard time with that? 423 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 2: Do you want to date other men? Are you tracted 424 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 2: enough to him to close down all other options? 425 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. Here's where I'm scared, because we were 426 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: friends before. I teeter a very fine line of I 427 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: don't want to ruin a friendship. 428 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: Wait, I have to interrupt you. Think about it this way. 429 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 2: The person that you want to find, if he starts 430 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 2: out being your best friend, that is such a huge 431 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: component of a great relationship. You've already got that one 432 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,479 Speaker 2: knocked out of the park. Think of it in a 433 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: positive way. 434 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: I think I have said this multiple times on the 435 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: podcast Kathy, is that I am a person who leads 436 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: with fear. I lead with fear. Most of my choices 437 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: in life. I lead in fear. And because I am 438 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: really great and overthinking, I can overthink overthinking. I am 439 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: constantly in a state of like, oh is this too much? 440 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: Is it not enough? Is this right? Is it not right? 441 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: I cannot live in the moment and just allow someone 442 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: to come into my life and treat me really great, 443 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: whether it works out in the long run or not. 444 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: I have to constantly be thinking, oh, well if I 445 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: kiss him then moving on to the next stage. What 446 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,719 Speaker 1: if I'm not ready for the next age? What if 447 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: I just want to be friends. What if I just 448 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: think he's just really great friend and I don't find 449 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: him romantic. What if what if he's fifty eight and 450 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: he's an old man and I'm not there's the level 451 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: of sexual attraction is not there. I've never dated someone 452 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: that much older than me. I typically date. Maybe this 453 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: is my problem. Guys that are younger than me is 454 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: what I have always done. Okay, so let me lay 455 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: it out. If for anyone who is listening, rewinds to 456 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: the first episode and I'm telling Ben all of these 457 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: things that i want. I'm telling Ben, I want someone 458 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: who shows up for me. I want someone who makes 459 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: me feel safe. I want someone who dotes on me 460 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: and really gets to know me and has that emotional intimacy. 461 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: All of these things, right, What if this guy does 462 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: those things. He has proven over and over it again 463 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: in the last few weeks. He calls when he says 464 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: he's going to, he texts when he says he's going to, 465 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: He takes me out to dinner. He sent me the 466 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: most beautiful bouquet for my birthday. 467 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 2: Okay, so, d you put it out in the universe. 468 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,719 Speaker 2: It's happening, and you know what I think this is 469 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: not that you're asking my opinion, but you know what 470 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: I think it is. You have been beaten up badly 471 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: in your marriage. Can I just say you deserve this guy. 472 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 2: Let yourself, let yourself enjoy the fact that someone really 473 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: wants to be with you. Don't sit to question it. 474 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: Why me? Why does he like me so much? I 475 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 2: don't deserve it? Why me? Because I think that's what 476 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: you're doing. I'm not a therapist, but you deserve And 477 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 2: again this is my age. I've learned that we all 478 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 2: deserve kindness and love and good care. And if this 479 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 2: guy is checking off your boxes, I would say you 480 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 2: are running with fear instead of opening your heart, being 481 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: vulnerable and say, hey, this is what what I've done 482 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 2: before hasn't worked. So this opportunity has come my way 483 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 2: and here he is, right, I'm going to give him 484 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: a chance, and if nothing else, d if nothing else, 485 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 2: he's going to remind you that there's good men out 486 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 2: there always, even if he's not the one. But right 487 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 2: now you seem like you're in handcuffs, emotional handcuffs. You're afraid. 488 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: I am. You know what the vision in my head, 489 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,959 Speaker 1: and I've shared this with multiple people. Is that like 490 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: I have my claws in so deep in my own life, 491 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: I am I want control so bad that like my 492 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: knuckles a are white because I cannot. I just cannot 493 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: let go. 494 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: Because your life was out of control. I mean again, 495 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: I'm not a therapist, but it sounds like during your divorce, 496 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 2: your life was really out of control. And now you have, 497 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 2: in your words, a nice clean home to come home to. 498 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 2: It's your solace, it's your it's your protected place. And 499 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 2: you can control your life as much as you can 500 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: because you don't have to answer to somebody else right now. 501 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: And if you let somebody else in, then you're gonna 502 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 2: have to. And that's fear. It is. 503 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: It is a lot of fear. I willingly said that 504 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: I'm not denying it. 505 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 2: I'm going to encourage you to give him a shot. 506 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: I am giving him a shot. I am making no 507 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: rash decisions whatsoever. I do worry about crossing a line 508 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: and never being able to go back. You know what 509 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,959 Speaker 1: I mean that it will change our friendship forever, and 510 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: I do worry about that. 511 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 2: Can I just give you one? Let me just again? 512 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 2: At my age, I have some male friends, none of 513 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 2: which I would date. Actually, I've got one very good 514 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 2: male friend who we dated and we don't. We dated 515 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: and he didn't want to date me after you know, 516 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 2: after a while it didn't work out, but we're still 517 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: really good friends. So why not try this? Why not 518 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 2: see again? If you're if he knows you, he knows 519 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 2: already knows your fears, he knows you're if you're good 520 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 2: friends with this guy, he knows you already. 521 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: He already brought up the podcast, Kathy, like like, oh, 522 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: he did well, I listened. I am not a liar. 523 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: That is not something that I am, and anyone that 524 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 1: has come in my direction, I make it very clear 525 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: that I'm doing this like I'm doing podcast It's a 526 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: great opportunity. I love podcasting, but it's also a great 527 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: opportunity to meet someone just like you. Right, And he 528 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: already was like, yeah, I mean I know that you're 529 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: doing this, but like I'd be lying if I said 530 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: I didn't want you going out with other guys an 531 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: to watch kissing anybody else. I don't watch you going 532 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: out with anybody else. What if you fall in love? 533 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 2: So you didn't answer the question, how do you feel 534 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 2: about that? Do you still want to date? Other guys 535 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 2: or is that just a defense mechanism if you don't say, 536 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 2: I'm dating six guys, so none of them are really 537 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 2: that important if anything falls off the wagon. So what, Kathy? 538 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: I am having so much fun with this, but we've 539 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: got to take a pause. I think that there's I 540 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: think there's a lot more to dive in here. 541 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 2: M