1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woka F Daily with 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, prerecorded from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about this week of content with really strong, 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: powerful women from all walks of life and through different industries. 5 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: Today's conversation is with Carrie Twig, who is one of 6 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: the co founders of the black owned, women owned production 7 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: company called Culture House. Carrie started her career in politics 8 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: and in policy and ended her political career with the 9 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: Obamas as a special assistant to the President and then 10 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: the director of Public Engagement for the Vice President. And 11 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: during her time in the conversation that we have, she 12 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: talked about the importance of storytelling and the importance of 13 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: marginalized community telling their own stories and being in control 14 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: of every part of production, from the writing of the story, 15 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: to the producing of the story to the filming of 16 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: the story. Culture House is really unique in Hollywood as 17 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: it is one of the very few production houses that 18 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: are very intentional about having seventy five percent the bare 19 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: minimum in their mind, seventy five percent of the people 20 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: that are involved in the company, that are working with 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: the company be women and be women of color. And 22 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: I think that that is really important because we understand 23 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: how important these days story is. I bitch and moan 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: every single week about the Democrats and their inability to 25 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: message right, and all messaging is is telling a compelling 26 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: story over and over and over again so that people 27 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: latch onto it, and they find different ways right to 28 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 1: latch onto those stories. But if you don't tell them right, 29 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: and you allow the other person and to just dictate 30 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: the narrative, then guess what, you end up completely out 31 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: of the story, as we have seen right throughout the 32 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: course of American history. So what's really exciting about this 33 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: conversation for me is that Carrie, like myself, made a 34 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: pivot from politics and policy and into the media and 35 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: entertainment landscape. And I think that it's also really important 36 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: to have conversations with folks that are doing something that 37 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 1: is bold right, which is the fact that, guess what, right, 38 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: women women of color are still very underrepresented in Hollywood 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: in production in front of the camera as in behind 40 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: the camera. And so Carrie will talk about a couple 41 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: of amazing productions that are coming up, things that we 42 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: are going to want to save on Hulu on Amazon 43 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: Prime that are stories about black women, right, hair Tales 44 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: is going to be a story that guess who the 45 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: executive producer powerhouses are behind that, Oprah Winfrey and Tracy 46 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: Ellis Ross right, And the story hair Tales is about 47 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: the connection that black women have with their hair, how 48 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: our hair has been politicized, right, what it means to 49 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: be natural, what it means to go through these process 50 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: and regardless of where you find yourself throughout the diaspora 51 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: of black people, black women's hair, black hair is something 52 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: that is incredibly important. And so to talk to Carrie 53 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: about this story and how it came to be and 54 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: when we are all going to lay eyes on it 55 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: is really something to look forward to. Because here's the 56 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: thing too, folks, is that I am tired, as I 57 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: know that you are, of having conversations about the doom 58 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: and gloom, having conversations about, you know, the end of 59 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,839 Speaker 1: the world and how it is fastly approaching. So it's 60 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: really fun to be able to take a pivot from 61 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: the doom and gloom and look at what good is 62 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: actually coming out into the world, what is being poured 63 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: into it. And there are so many good stories about 64 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: people of color, people from marginalized communities, people whose stories 65 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: have been underrepresented. So I really hope that you enjoy 66 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: this convo with Carrie and check out Culture House at 67 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: Culture dot House, which is also a production company and 68 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: a cultural consultancy. Right, so very interesting the work that 69 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: they are all doing and the fact that many of 70 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: you have probably seen some of the work that has 71 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: been produced. So I am super excited to bring this 72 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: in depth conversation about how we fill ourselves up. The 73 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: world is depleting us in ways that I don't think 74 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: we ever we ever thought. We find ourselves sitting in 75 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: front of the television, sitting in front of our phone, 76 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: sitting in front of our laptops, and just having negativity 77 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: be deposited onto us. So what does it mean to 78 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: actually be in this space that is really dark and 79 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: think about the art and the music and the movies 80 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: and the films that can be created during this time 81 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: and the importance of them being created during this time. 82 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: So I'm excited for this conversation. Let me know in 83 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: the comment section what you think about it, and I 84 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: look forward to reading your comments. Folks. I am very 85 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: excited to welcome to Okay Effort Daily for the very 86 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: first time, the founding partner and head of development at 87 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: Culture House, Carrie Twig, I want you to tell folks 88 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: about your amazing company. And you know why, particularly now, 89 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: we have seen so many and I guess it's not 90 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: really so many when you look at the swath of 91 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: white production companies and films and television that is made. 92 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: But over the last I would say ten years or so, 93 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: there's been a concerted effort by people of color BIPOC 94 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: folks to own and operate their own production houses, to 95 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: be the ones that are green lighting. So can you 96 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: tell us a bit about Culture House and how this 97 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: vision came to be? Absolutely so. I mean you bring 98 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: up a really good point around the just broader ecosystem 99 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: that Culture House exists in. There has been a real 100 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: movement and a lot of momentum behind people of color, 101 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: BIPOC folks, queer folks starting their own production companies because 102 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: we need to get involved in the process further down 103 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: the supply chain right and have a voice in a perspective, 104 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: be present in all aspects of the content creation. And 105 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: that's really important and so that's a huge piece of 106 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: why we organize our company the way that we did. 107 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: We're black, brown women owned production company, two other partners, 108 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: and our work really focuses at the intersection of pop 109 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: culture and politics, and we run production services. So a 110 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: lot of production companies, even if they're organized from a 111 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: financial or legal perspective as a production company, don't actually 112 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: then carry the overhead required to create an actual production. 113 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: They will then end up having to subcontract to another 114 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: company in order to run the budgets, to carry the insurance, 115 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: to run the editing and the post process, to do 116 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: the development, so on and so forth. And so then 117 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: a lot of those companies that can and do have 118 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: the wherewithal to have the overhead and to have those resources, 119 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: or the legacy companies predominantly owned by men, predominantly white. 120 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: And so we made a choice to run those production 121 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: services ourselves because there wasn't a company like ours that 122 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: shared our perspective, that share aired our point of view, 123 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: that was able to do the entire provide the entire 124 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: supply chain of content. And that was a major choice 125 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: that we made. That made it harder as a business. 126 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: It's a harder, more complex business to run, to set 127 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: up to sustain, but it was important from a kind 128 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: of political point of view for all of us. I'm 129 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: the new bee in the film in TV world. My company, 130 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: you know, um my partners are long time filmmakers. Ray 131 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: Rachel Genre, She's been in the doc world for you know, 132 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: twenty years, went to Tish, went to film school, did 133 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: the whole thing. Nicole Glevski, She's she ran a m 134 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: she ran a film festival. She's produced everything you can 135 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: imagine from you know, big budget features to indie features, 136 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: to scripted to nonscripted to doc kind of and everything 137 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: in between. And I sort of wandered out of DC 138 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: five years ago trying to figure out how things got 139 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: on TV. Thankfully, we all kind of met and bonded, 140 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: and I was really able to They were at an 141 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: inflection point in their career. They'd been running a production 142 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: company for several years with a different partner, and they 143 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: were winding that company down and really trying to think 144 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: about what was next when we all met. So our 145 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: timing was really good that I sort of brought in 146 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: my perspective and we were able together to craft a 147 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: vision that ultimately became Culture House. I love this, and 148 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: I love the fact that you just said that you 149 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: wandered your way out of DC because I did the 150 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: same in twenty sixteen. It was like the Obamas are leaving, 151 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: and so I am leaving as well, Like I am 152 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: packing up my life and heading to New York. You know, 153 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: I have said often when I started out in media, 154 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: which was during the fight for marriage equality, and you know, 155 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: it was when I had decided that policy wasn't the 156 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: only thing that drives change, that it is also media, right, 157 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: And when I talked about media initially, it was essentially 158 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: around how mainstream media and cable news would reflect back 159 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: out us the issues that need to be paid attention to, 160 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: or who is important, who do we invoke empathy about, 161 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: and what have you? For you making this, making the 162 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: transition from the Obama White House into entertainment, did you 163 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: see it as as as an opportunity to kind of 164 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: expand where you were in this big, major place of change, 165 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: to find a different avenue to tell different stories. Yeah, 166 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: I mean to me, I do the same work I did. 167 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: I just have different tactics and I do it in 168 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: a different industry. But from my experience, and I obviously 169 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: can't speak to the experience of other people in the 170 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: White House, but it's not a coincidence to me that 171 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: so many people left the Obama era, including the Obama's 172 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: and went storytelling. I think that there was a shared 173 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: experience around like why is this so difficult? Like why 174 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: can't we in setting aside the Senate, setting aside the racism, 175 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: there is also just a fundamental reality that whether it's healthcare, 176 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: whether it's economic policy, whether it was environmental policy, the 177 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: political or the legislative and policy vision was too far 178 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: ahead of where the culture of the nation actually was. 179 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: And the reality is that these ideas, the idea of 180 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: what your society can be, has to exist in the 181 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: imagination of citizens first, and then you can build policy 182 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: and then you can build legislation around it. And the 183 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: way that you sort of accept people's imagination is through 184 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: the stories, the stories that we would tell, the stories 185 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: that we repeat, the stories we share, the stories were 186 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: exposed to and so to me it was sort of going. 187 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: It was the same work of I'm someone who's animated 188 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: to change society, and I have been since I was 189 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: a very young person. It has animated basically every choice 190 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: I have ever made, and so to me, it's about 191 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: doing that work, but slightly earlier in the process before 192 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: you get to the place where you're trying to build 193 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: a legislative agenda or policy agenda around it. It's moving 194 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: up a little bit and doing the cultural the kind 195 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: of scaffolding, the cultural scaffolding that allows for a allows 196 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: for the political or governmental vision to be articulated that 197 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: I believe in, there needs to be a value set 198 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: in order in place before the government that I would 199 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: like to see can actually make good on that visions. 200 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: You know, I think that one of the reasons why 201 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: we're kind of in the place that we are, both 202 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: politically and culturally, because we've lost sight of having any 203 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: type of shared vision and shared identity. And I think 204 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: that that there, to me, has always been the opportunity 205 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: for culture, for pop culture to be able to decrease 206 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: that gap, right that like the idea that stories that 207 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: are about or center black people, queer people are ones 208 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: that are said that, well, you know, that's for this 209 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: particular group, Like they're not. It's not a shared it's 210 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: not a shared story of like the American story. Like 211 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: we're having these conversations right now and seeing this pushback, 212 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: do you think that it's like, how do you aside 213 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: from folks like yourself who have created their own entity 214 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: in culture house. What advice do you have for people 215 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: that are trying to maneuver and expand the spaces that 216 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: are inherently white, that are inherently male, but they're trying 217 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: to take up space. That's interesting. I mean, I guess 218 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: part of me takes issue with the found with the 219 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: even the idea that there are spaces that are inherently 220 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: male or inherently white. I think they are populated by 221 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: white men, but doesn't mean they're inherently for them. And 222 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: we can get into the kind of social design and 223 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: the fact that our economy is all sorts of workplaces 224 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: were designed in the image of and to facilitate white maleness. 225 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm not disagreeing with that, but I do think that 226 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: we have One of the things that we have to 227 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: constantly remember is that adversarialness is also energy draining. It's 228 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: your second work, right if you are thinking about, like, Okay, 229 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: how do I infiltrate this space you are in order 230 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: to do X, you just gave yourself two jobs and 231 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: everyone else who's in that space only has one. And 232 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: so for me, it's sort of like, is that how 233 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: I want to expend my energy, or can I just 234 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: do things? Can I build something that feels right to me, 235 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: that makes sense to me, do it my way, eliminate 236 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: as much if I as much as I can around 237 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: the infiltration. And there's people who are good at that, 238 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: there's people who enjoy that. I personally am not one 239 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: of them anymore. I have my little moments when you're 240 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: like fix it from the inside, But generally speaking, I'm 241 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: just like girl mine, got no more time for this, 242 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: Like I'm just going to build the thing I want 243 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: to build and make it so dope that it's kind 244 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: of it's its own undeniable force. And if you guys 245 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: don't want, I don't go where I'm not invited. I 246 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't go to someone's party in why would I do that? 247 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: Why would I be in someone's house when I was 248 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: not I am not welcome there? And so I just 249 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: I try to reduce the amount of time and energy 250 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: I spend banging against a door that does not want 251 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: to go, and use all of that energy to find 252 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: the places which exist, Like there's there's places exist where 253 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: you will be welcome, you'll be celebrated, where people actually 254 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: want you there and value your opinion. As opposed to 255 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: getting stuck on the like it has to be this company, 256 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: or it has to be this outlet or this distributor, 257 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: and I have to tell this story. It's like, Okay, 258 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: maybe that's true for some people. I try not to 259 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: get too attached to what something looks like from the 260 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: outside and just really focus on like my personal feelings 261 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: and experience of when I'm interacting with someone, and if 262 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel good, then I'm not going to go 263 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: there or be there. I don't know. I just don't 264 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: subject myself to it because time is precious and energy 265 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: is precious, and I don't want to do twice as 266 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: much as twice as much work as everybody else. I mean, 267 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: I know that's right, because I mean there has been 268 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: so much conversation in the past two years, particularly through COVID, 269 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: around black women, black people reclaiming rest and reclaiming the 270 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: fact that you know, you've hired me for this one thing. 271 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: But often times, what regardless of what industry it is, 272 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: you're doing multiple jobs, um, and you're and you're being 273 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: you're being set up in a way where to your 274 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: earlier point, there isn't scaffolding, There isn't you know, there 275 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: isn't a net that is created for your success, knowing 276 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: that oftentimes if you're coming in um into different spaces. 277 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: I know, for me, in politics and in you know, 278 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: in a variety of places, I was the only black 279 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: face in the room, the only black queer face in 280 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: the room, which means that now I have to talk 281 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: to you about white supremacy, and I have to talk 282 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: to you about homophobia and transphobia, and I have to 283 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: talk to you about like all of these different things. 284 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: And then I have to do my job, um, which 285 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: has found me working for myself many for the past 286 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: several years for that particular reason. Um. You know, in 287 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: within within culture House you say that seventy five percent 288 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: um of the folks in front of and behind the 289 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: camera are black, Codigenous people of color and women identified. 290 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,959 Speaker 1: Why was that number important to you? And do you 291 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: think that you know because again other companies, production places, 292 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: cable news, all of these things say it's so hard, 293 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: we don't know where to look, we have no idea 294 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: where to find these talented people of color, and yet 295 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: you manage to create a company with seventy five percent 296 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: and make that your number. So how did you come 297 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: to that Yeah, how did you come to that distinction? Yeah, well, 298 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: we have twenty six people on staff, and twenty five 299 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,959 Speaker 1: of them are women, and I think twenty of them 300 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: are women of color. So we do the same thing 301 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: everyone else does. We have a job, we have roles 302 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: to hire, We access our network because of who we are, 303 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: our networks look a particular way. And so that is 304 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: so the idea that like it's some great challenge to 305 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: hire people of color is completely laughable. But have all 306 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: of these people who have lived a particular way and 307 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: have just not interacted socially, not interacted sort of in 308 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: any meaningful way with people of color, and then they're 309 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: scrambling to try and fill and they don't. They're not 310 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: even one person removed. They're like seven or eight. Like 311 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: there's people who are trying to then hire and diverse 312 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: by sets who like wouldn't have a person of color 313 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: at their wedding, who have gone to je damn yeah, 314 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: or like I wouldn't know who to call to invite 315 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: to a dinner party, like I have no one let alone. 316 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: And that's that's that's their fundamental failure. And so for us, 317 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: this idea of like seventy five percent it's like, at 318 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: least and it's not even a sweat, is what would 319 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: happen organically? Like, it's not even a thing. It's not aspirational. 320 00:19:54,520 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: M And So I was on some like inner street 321 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: panel conversation about this, and someone was talking about some 322 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: TV commercial that they shot in Las Vegas, Nevada. Were like, well, 323 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: you know it was Nevada, so it was super hard 324 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: to like get a diverse crew in a diverse set. 325 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm pretty sure. Correct me if 326 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Nevada is, if not 327 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: majority non white, very close to it. So what are 328 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: you saying to me? How is that possible? How is 329 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: the one of the countries entertainment capitals of the world. 330 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: What are you telling me you can't find someone in 331 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: Vegas that isn't white, that knows how to use lights? 332 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: How lazy? I screw you that they are there. Y'all 333 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: just don't know any y'all just just say you don't 334 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: know any brown folks, right, you don't know any black folks. 335 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: You don't know any you don't know any. So that's 336 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: what the problem is. It's not that we don't exist, 337 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: is that y'all? Right, so right, yeah, I mean it's 338 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: the supply chain, and it's like, listen, the supply chain 339 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: is real because human beings act like human beings and 340 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,239 Speaker 1: call people to work with, call people that they know, 341 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: and call people that they like, and give the same 342 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: people opportunity over and over and over again because getting 343 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: to know new people's hard and it feels risky and 344 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, Like we do the same thing, we 345 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: call the same directors, we call the same people. They 346 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: just happen to all the black, brown, queer women something 347 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: you know. Um, But people don't do these interventions in 348 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: their own personal lives, right They're forty five stumbling around 349 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: trying to make their first black friend. And then yeah, 350 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: y'all act like it's us that are in, Like you 351 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: just haven't seen us your whole life. Yeah, it's it's 352 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: it's it's about I mean, in all honesty, it is 353 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: about self interrogation, right, like it is about the asking 354 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: yourself why and why am I only caring about this 355 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: to your point at forty five? And I didn't care 356 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: about it at twenty, right, Like I didn't care about 357 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: it as I was growing my career to make sure 358 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: that there's not only a diversity in race, in gender, identity, 359 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: and orientation, but that there is a diversity in thought. 360 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: Where am I getting people from? How am I? How 361 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: am I storytelling and creating richness? If everybody looks the 362 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: same as me and it's from the same place. Um, 363 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: and I think that that like, But that is about 364 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: self interrogation. It is about saying that, hey, maybe I 365 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: didn't grow up in this space, So what do I 366 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: need to do in order to be better, in order 367 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: to be more nimble? Um, you have a new production 368 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: that is going to be coming out released June twenty 369 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: twenty two. Um, which gives us all something to look 370 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: forward to and something for me to look forward to. Um, 371 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: I'll hit that timeline. But we're going Okay, okay, okay, 372 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: you don't you have a new production. Okay, you have 373 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: a new production in the works in the world. Okay, 374 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: actually set today, Okay, hiding in a back room, all right, 375 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: So hair Tales. You have powerhouse executive producers Oprah and 376 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: Tracy Ellis Ross that are behind the hair Tales which 377 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: will be on Hulu and tell us about this, tell 378 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: us about the rich stories and about black women and 379 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: their identity and connection with their hair and how this 380 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: came about. Yeah, I mean, it's such a beautiful project. 381 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: It's created by a woman named Michaela Angela Davis, and 382 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: she has been working in sort of the cultural academic 383 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: hairspace for a really long time. Tracy coming on as 384 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: an executive producer and a host of the show, which 385 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: is also really exciting. Dovetailed really perfectly with her launching 386 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: pattern and pattern yeah, you know, but also these are 387 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: women who trace their their journey of self acceptance through 388 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: their journey with their hair. Right, their hair represented became 389 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: a sort of prism for how they interacted with the world, 390 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: how they were seeing, how they saw themselves, how they 391 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: would nurture themselves, how they were taken care of by 392 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: the people who raised them, and so there's so much 393 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: Our hair really becomes this portal and this lens through 394 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: which we can tell so much about who we are. 395 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: You know, in my life, my dad braided my hair 396 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: every morning, and he had five little sisters, and so 397 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: he'd been braiding hair in some former fashion for forty 398 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: five years between having five little sisters and then two daughters. 399 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: And when he when I asked him, I think I 400 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: was like twelve, for my twelfth birthday, asked if I 401 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: could do my own hair, and so he just started 402 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: washing the dog every week and started bothing the dog. 403 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: It's like, what do I do with all that's time? Exactly? 404 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: But like that, even that story, that story of who 405 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: did my hair? Growing up will tell you so much 406 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: about how I was raised, about who my family, how 407 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: my family is organized, about who I am, about my 408 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: orientation to the world. And that's true for so many 409 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: of us. You know, you can ask questions of your 410 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: mom or your grandma, your auntie when y'all look at 411 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: each other in the eye, but she's sitting up behind you, 412 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: maybe you wouldn't have the courage to sort of and 413 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: vice versa. She might tell you things that she might 414 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: not be able to look you in the eye and 415 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: tell you. But when she's braiding your hair can like 416 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: briefly remind you, like, hey, you know this is happening 417 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: or is it about to happen or such and such, 418 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: And so our hair has become this really important milestone 419 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: then in the kind of intimate space of black women. 420 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: And then it's also this way for us to talk 421 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: about what we're really up against and how we interact 422 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: with the world right all the cultural stories, the way 423 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 1: that black barbershops and beauty salonts have been used as 424 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: organizing hubs in the Black community throughout America since time. 425 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: The way that black hair is an incredible economic resource 426 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 1: for women to be entrepreneurial, to get themselves through college, 427 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: to open their first businesses, whether it's you know, the 428 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 1: first self made women Black women in this history of 429 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: this country, to women entrepreneurs around the world today, it 430 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: is a source of our oppression right, whether that ability politics, 431 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: whether that's the Crown Act, which recently you know, didn't 432 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: proceed through the US Senate with some white girls representing 433 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: a senator calling it the bad Hair Bill. And that's 434 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: all a mechanism of being able to discriminate against Black 435 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: women for hair as it grows out of their head, 436 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: as they choose to articulate and wear it them because 437 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: it's an effort to continue to styme me the power 438 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: of Black women and our agency, not only our bodily agency, 439 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: even our cultural agency. And so our hair remains this 440 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: incredibly powerful cipher almost of our public life, but also 441 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: of our intimate individual life, our family life, our community life, 442 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: and so it was just so far past due for 443 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: a really rich artistic exploration. There are some incredible artists 444 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: who are contributing to this show. There are some incredible guests, 445 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be hopefully as hopefully you know who 446 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: we're making it for. We'll find it as magical as 447 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: it's been to make it. Yeah, you know, I just 448 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: I often don't think that we get to see those 449 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: intimate portrayals of ourselves that are outside of the body 450 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: politic talking about what is wrong with our hair as 451 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: opposed to the journey and the beauty and like the 452 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: connection and relationship and familialness. And I can tell you 453 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: I have locks. And when I had decided, you know, 454 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: twenty years ago to lock my hair, my grandparents who 455 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: have since passed there my family's Jamaican, and my grandparents 456 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: who were just like, what kind of job are you 457 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: going to get if you lock your hair? Like it 458 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 1: was coming from Jamaica, they had only associated having locks with, 459 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, with Rastafarianism, with this whole idea of counterculture, 460 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: and could not foresee at all me being in politics 461 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: on television with you know, with locked hair. And it 462 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: was you know, and it was like a moment that 463 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: really took me aback of you know, the politics of 464 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: hair within my own family and saying, oh, well, you 465 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: were all good and fine so long as it was 466 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: being pressed and permed and tortured or braided, but if 467 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: you were to do something with your natural hair, it 468 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: was just like, we're concerned about your employment and that 469 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: you know, and that and that was incredibly real at 470 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: at time, um, so long ago. But not even the 471 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: number of aunties that asked me if I was getting 472 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: a press pressing my hair before starting at the White House. 473 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: They're like, well, surely you're gonna get a relaxer or 474 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: surely you're going to like I was like to go 475 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: work for black people. No, no, I will not. But 476 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: it was people were just like, are you sure, like 477 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: maybe maybe just like a little bit maybe like fine, 478 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,959 Speaker 1: maybe don't go all relax or like a little bit 479 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: of charte, just like take a little bit down, a 480 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: little bit of charte. What are you talking about? Um? 481 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: But it was very stressful to a lot. And also 482 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: like my family's from the Caribbean, from Barbados, so but 483 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: even my aunties that are American, we're just like, girl, 484 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Get that you know. Yeah, 485 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: I mean I remember, I remember, I remember the Obama 486 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: girls being attacked when um they had two strand twists 487 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: in I mean the like the odd dast I just 488 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: that brings me back to that dark place, um, because 489 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: I was just like, oh my god, here here I 490 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: was as excited that I'm like, black girls are sitting 491 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: in the White House getting their hair done and I 492 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: like what And I remember talking about this like giddily, 493 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: and then to see them attacked for this A well, 494 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: it's it's not done. It doesn't look right, but messy 495 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: buns with blonde hair is totally fine and acceptable. Um, 496 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: so I am yeah, It's just it's it's absurd. I 497 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: think that this is incredibly exciting. I cannot wait to 498 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: watch it. Is it going to be? Is it a series? 499 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: Is it a doc? What is the how? How is 500 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: this going to take form? Is it's the sixth episode season? Um? 501 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: And it will air simultaneously on Hulu and own, so 502 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: wonderful linear option as well as the Hulu option, which 503 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: is great. And as we wrap up, Carrie, do you 504 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: have any other projects in the works that you can 505 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: get us excited about us so we have a good 506 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: distraction from you know, not a democracy crumbling exactly. So 507 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: we do have a show on Disney Plus that's coming 508 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: out in August or September called Growing Up, and that 509 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: is really about these moments and our adolescence where shame 510 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: really creeps in and can really change our life and 511 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: sort of how do we have a peer to peer 512 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: conversation about those moments, hopefully for young people and head 513 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: them off of the past so they're not trying to 514 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: work it out with their therapist at forty but can 515 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: just like never take on that baggage, trust me, you know, 516 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: like the things if I could go back and just like, 517 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: this is not a thing to worry about, It's not 518 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: a thing. Put Put all this down, Put all this 519 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: concern and shame that you have around this particular thing down, 520 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: and go live your life. And that was really what 521 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: we were trying to do as the four executive producers 522 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: of the show, myself, my business partners, and Bree Larson, 523 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: the actress who really came to us with this vision 524 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: around a show about shame and so as anything from 525 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: starting your period to coming out to transitioning to living 526 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: on a rez and feeling isolated to not getting into 527 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:29,719 Speaker 1: the college. You want not acne feeling colorism like an 528 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: immigrant experience. Right. So these ten they're ten different stories, 529 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: all centered around young people who really struggled with something 530 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: and there are a few years removed from it now, 531 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,719 Speaker 1: but talking about it and recreating it and think trying 532 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: to dissect for the audience, like how easy and universal 533 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: it's the same. It's the same universal thing. We all 534 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: go through it as we're trying to figure out who 535 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: the hell we are and what we're going to do. 536 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: And so whether you had that exact experience or not, 537 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: it's also like it's so deeply relatable and trying to 538 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: figure out how we can liberate ourselves earlier in the 539 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: process and not even really begin to bring some of 540 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: that on so that we our kids can be a 541 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: little bit freer than we got to be. So I'm 542 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: really proud of that show, and I'm really excited for 543 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: that UM to debut in on Disney Plus. As I said, um, 544 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 1: later later this year. UM, we're working on a you know, 545 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: another show about black folks and black women in music 546 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: for Netflix that I can't talk too much about on 547 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: that one, UM, and that's on the horizon. Yeah, on 548 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,479 Speaker 1: the horizon. Well, as your projects come together and you're 549 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: getting ready to launch, I hope that you will come 550 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: back and chat with us some more because I need 551 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: more joy in my life and this provides me with 552 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: that kind of energy and excitement. So Karrie, thank you 553 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: so much for making time for okay A and for 554 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: the work that you're doing and the change that you're 555 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: making in a completely different format. You allow folks to 556 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: see that they don't have to just live inside of 557 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: one box, that there are so many opportunities as big 558 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: as you can dream. So thank you. Thank you so 559 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: much for having me and such a pleasure to meet 560 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: you at last. Thank you as always, dear friends. Power 561 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: to the people and to all the people. Power, get 562 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: woke and stay woke as fuck.