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Speaker 1: All right, everybody, Welcome to the Jason timp Podcast. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for taking time out of your day

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Speaker 1: today to come hang out talk some basketball with Tommy

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Speaker 1: and I. I just got him on. Tommy, how are

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Speaker 1: you doing today, Man, I'm doing good man, as always,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on. I've been looking forward

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Speaker 1: to this. I was hoping it would be a little

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Speaker 1: bit sooner, more close to the end of the finals,

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Speaker 1: but um, I was very archaic in my early attempts

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Speaker 1: to get this going, and I had to get some

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Speaker 1: stuff on the tech end up and running before I

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Speaker 1: could really, um, you know, get to any sort of

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Speaker 1: offseason content. And I appreciate your patience and appreciate you

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Speaker 1: taking the time. Um, I'm really excited to hear your

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Speaker 1: take on the Lebron stuff. Primarily today, we're gonna focus

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Speaker 1: on what Tommy has to say as kind of a

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Speaker 1: rebuttal to everything that I said about Lebron uh last week,

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Speaker 1: and we'll have a little bit of a give and

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Speaker 1: take there. We're going to talk about where we think

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Speaker 1: the top ten list of the NBA stands as of

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Speaker 1: right now, and then, last but not least, what I

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Speaker 1: want to start with. It's just really quickly, um talking

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Speaker 1: about the NBA restart in December, and particularly this idea

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Speaker 1: that teams and particularly teams that made deep playoff runs

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Speaker 1: could consider not playing in the at the start of

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Speaker 1: the season, and so I just want to touch on

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Speaker 1: that really quick and then we'll get to the fun stuff.

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Speaker 1: But my my initial take on it, it's really simple.

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Speaker 1: There are three, like absolute facts of this case. Fact

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Speaker 1: number one, for every dollar that the NBA does not make,

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Speaker 1: the players don't make fifty cents. So it's a a

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Speaker 1: revenue partnership. This is not a situation where the players

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Speaker 1: can leverage uh the owners out of money that wouldn't

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Speaker 1: automatically leverage themselves out of money. And then facts number two.

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Speaker 1: In a normal off season, for two teams that play

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Speaker 1: in the finals, you basically have from June to July,

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Speaker 1: July to August, August to September, September to October off,

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Speaker 1: and then you get back into training camp. And this season,

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Speaker 1: every team had at least from March to April, April

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Speaker 1: to May made a June, June to July off. And

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Speaker 1: for fourteen teams who did not you know, fourteen minus

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Speaker 1: the what did they bring five extra teams to the

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Speaker 1: bubble or whatever. So for eight of the teams they

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Speaker 1: didn't play at all during this entire time, and for

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Speaker 1: many of them they've been off for several months since then.

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Speaker 1: So the idea that the players have played more this

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Speaker 1: season than they had in previous seasons is just not true.

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Speaker 1: And then the last thing is that every single game

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Speaker 1: from Smith Day this year, which was a Christmas that

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Speaker 1: was considered ratings that were down from previous seasons, every

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Speaker 1: single game from Chris Christmas Day this year outrated every

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Speaker 1: single playoff game, including the finals. So what does that mean.

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Speaker 1: That means that the NBA very much needs to get

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Speaker 1: back to their regular schedule so they can stop competing

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Speaker 1: with you know, elections every two years in the fall

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Speaker 1: and with football every single year in the fall. That

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Speaker 1: it is very clear that the better schedule for them

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Speaker 1: to be on is either October to June or December

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Speaker 1: to July, something that goes in that general time frame.

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Speaker 1: So the idea that I, while I sympathize with some

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Speaker 1: of these teams like the Lakers and the Heat that

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Speaker 1: will have to do a quick turnaround, it's not like

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Speaker 1: they're facing any sort of long term wear and tear.

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Speaker 1: That's more than what they would in a normal season.

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Speaker 1: They've had more time off in the last season than

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Speaker 1: they normally would, so I don't really understand that angle,

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Speaker 1: and the reality is that it's a no brainer for them,

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Speaker 1: not only for the health of the league, but the

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Speaker 1: simple fact that they will us themselves money by delaying

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Speaker 1: it on that split. What's your thoughts on that situation, Tommy? So,

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Speaker 1: I agree with basically everything you just laid out, and

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Speaker 1: one thing I would actually add on to the tail

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Speaker 1: end of that is the Olympics. Apparently the Olympics are

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Speaker 1: going to happen in or at least that's what people

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Speaker 1: are saying. And I don't know if it's a huge

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Speaker 1: deal to have the Superstars there, but if we want

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Speaker 1: to win Olympic goal, that obviously gives us the best chance.

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Speaker 1: And the Olympics are set to go off right now,

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Speaker 1: earlier than normal from what I've seen, I've seen like

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Speaker 1: a mid or late July timeline when they're usually I

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Speaker 1: think they usually start a little bit later than that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's usually late summer. Yeah, exactly, it's usually August. I

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Speaker 1: want to say, So, if you just add that on

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Speaker 1: top of it, we wouldn't have our starts with the

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Speaker 1: Olympics if the season runs into August or September again. Um,

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Speaker 1: but that being said, Chris Haines tweeted about twenty five

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Speaker 1: minutes ago. Yeah, who sources substantial facts and the players

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Speaker 1: and star players pushing for January eighth. Mlk DA start

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Speaker 1: free agency starting on December one. That would put teams

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Speaker 1: like the Lakers and the Heat on more of a

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Speaker 1: normal timeline in terms of an NBA off season, it

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Speaker 1: would still be a tiny bit shorter. Um. So, like

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Speaker 1: you're saying, I do sympathize with them, but they did

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Speaker 1: have it was basically a four and a half month

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Speaker 1: break right all the season, so in terms of they

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be feeling too far behind. It was a quick

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Speaker 1: push on the bubble. But if if this is I've

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Speaker 1: seen the number I've seen thrown around, it's about five

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Speaker 1: million dollars worth of losses. Um. If they do start

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Speaker 1: at this m Olka, they versus December. So if the

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Speaker 1: plan is to bring in as much money as possible,

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Speaker 1: they need to start in December. Um. Yeah, I had

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Speaker 1: not seen that Chris Saine's tweet yet. That's interesting. It

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Speaker 1: just dropped right at noon, so thirty minutes ago, and

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Speaker 1: I guess it. I guess it's not the most shocking

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Speaker 1: thing in the world. But like to me, it's like, like,

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Speaker 1: of course, you guys would rather wait till Januarry, Like

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Speaker 1: like what if someone told you that you were going

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Speaker 1: to take a vacation, but you could take an extra

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Speaker 1: month off, Like, of course they'd like to. I guarantee

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Speaker 1: you if, for whatever reason, in a normal season there

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Speaker 1: was some reason to leverage it. I could see the

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Speaker 1: players being like, let's start in November instead of October.

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Speaker 1: Without a doubt they're the players would like that to

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Speaker 1: be the case. It's just they have, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: they have no leverage. If I'm the n b A,

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, you're gonna cost yourself money in the form

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Speaker 1: of this revenue splitt for for the vast majority of

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Speaker 1: the teams, they're actually itching and ready to play. So

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Speaker 1: we're making basically massive concessions for the sake of you know,

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Speaker 1: one or two teams or two or four teams, depending

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Speaker 1: on where you know where you feel about that. But

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Speaker 1: it's like, also, you're sacrificing that Christmas Day element, which

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Speaker 1: has always been a huge income day for the NBA.

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Speaker 1: It's just I really don't understand it. Uh, from the

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Speaker 1: standpoint of you know, like, without a doubt, if you're Lebron,

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Speaker 1: if you're you know, Jimmy Butler, if you're even the

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Speaker 1: Nuggets or the Celtics, it sucks. I get it. It sucks.

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Speaker 1: But this is just the nature of the business. What

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Speaker 1: would have been your late season and playoff run, instead

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Speaker 1: of taking place from March to June, is now going

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Speaker 1: to take place from July to October, and and in

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Speaker 1: your off season is effectively going to be split in half.

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Speaker 1: That's really all that happened. It's it's that simple, and

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Speaker 1: it's such a no brainer. Yeah. And I think lastly,

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Speaker 1: the the NBA starting later doesn't do anything. At this point,

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Speaker 1: fans aren't going to be back in arenas no matter

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Speaker 1: when they started, unless they plan on starting in the summer,

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Speaker 1: which isn't realistic. So fans are going to be back

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Speaker 1: in the arenas either way. There's no point to push

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Speaker 1: it back any further. If this season started, and like

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Speaker 1: you're saying, have that Christmas Day game, um, and I

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Speaker 1: think that it will feel more like a quote on

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Speaker 1: normal NBA season if they do do that, which gives

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Speaker 1: them a better chance of getting better ratings. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: if I'm the NBA, I'm saying, fine, if you want

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Speaker 1: to delay to January and now the finals ear in

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Speaker 1: July instead of June, like, just do something, not even

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Speaker 1: if you have any intention of actually doing that, but

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Speaker 1: just to attempt to leverage the players into understanding the

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Speaker 1: obvious solution here exactly. Um. But on that note, I

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Speaker 1: want to get to some of this fun stuff we

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Speaker 1: have been talking about. So basically I'm gonna do a

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Speaker 1: super quick rehash of what my Lebron thing was because

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Speaker 1: I want I want to start with, is your kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, response to that? For lack of a better phrase,

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Speaker 1: but essentially, for those of you who didn't hear it,

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Speaker 1: I essentially said that before this year, Lebron had no case,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, to be the goat. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was a mistake for players, for fans, and for Lebron

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Speaker 1: himself to make that stand. But that I do believe

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Speaker 1: now he does have a case. I personally probably give

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Speaker 1: a very slight edge to m J still at this point,

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Speaker 1: but I do believe that you could have a conversation

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Speaker 1: about Lebron being the best basketball player ever, and it

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Speaker 1: could make enough sense to have like a real conversation

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Speaker 1: around it. And I said that the two things that

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Speaker 1: that case has to be built on are one his

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Speaker 1: winning versatility, the fact that he's won in so many

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Speaker 1: different ways. To be clear, it's there have been six

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Speaker 1: complete different roster configurations that he's either won a championship

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Speaker 1: with taking to the finals, are taken to within two

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Speaker 1: games of the final, two wins of the finals. And

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Speaker 1: then the other big chunk of it would be his

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Speaker 1: mental toughness, just the idea that while guys like Magic

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Speaker 1: and Bird and Kareem and other players that were considered

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Speaker 1: in that top five to seven range had seasons where

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Speaker 1: they lost in the first round or the second round

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Speaker 1: of the third round. Duncan is another great example of that.

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Speaker 1: Whereas you have Um and Michael Jordan's like having retirements

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Speaker 1: in the middle of his career to kind of refresh mentally,

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Speaker 1: Lebron just kind of always had this ability to to

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Speaker 1: dig deep into approach every single season with that same

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Speaker 1: you know, fervor that he did when he was winning.

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Speaker 1: And I thought that those two things would be the

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Speaker 1: main piece, and then the big third piece that he

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Speaker 1: could add in the future that could eventually put him

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Speaker 1: definitively over the top is the longevity piece. Because Lebron

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Speaker 1: and m j both won titles and finals MVPs at

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Speaker 1: thirty five. But now Lebron appears to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the precipice of potentially adding a couple more. So,

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Speaker 1: my question to you, Tommy is do you agree with

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Speaker 1: the gist of what I'm saying? And then finally, where

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Speaker 1: would you put Lebron all time after this season if

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Speaker 1: you had a gun to your head. So I think

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna agree with you, maybe a little bit more

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Speaker 1: than you would expect, because so I've laid this out

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Speaker 1: on Twitter multiple times, there are now I would say,

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Speaker 1: four guys in NBA history to win four championships as

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Speaker 1: the unquestioned best player on their team. Those guys are

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Speaker 1: now Michael Jordan's, Bill Russell, Tim Duncan, and now Lebron James.

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Speaker 1: Because I would consider Lebron, even though eighty is amazing,

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Speaker 1: He's an incredible player. I would consider Lebron to be

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Speaker 1: the best player on this lasers and I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's super close. I don't I don't see how it

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Speaker 1: went anywhere near as many games without Lebron. I just

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Speaker 1: don't see the case for eight being the best player.

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Speaker 1: He's an incredible player, but he's more towards We'll get

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Speaker 1: into where he's at later in terms of lead rankings, UM,

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Speaker 1: but I don't see any case for Lebron not being

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Speaker 1: the best player on this team. So that puts him

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Speaker 1: an elite company. Obviously, he's now one of four guys

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Speaker 1: in NBA history who has done this. In my estimation,

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Speaker 1: you could probably make an argument for magic because you

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Speaker 1: could say he was not the best player on the

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Speaker 1: Lakers first title team, but the next four he was.

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Speaker 1: But if the if we're saying unquestioned best player, then

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Speaker 1: it's just those four ties. So he has put himself

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Speaker 1: an elite company. Where I don't think his GOA cases

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Speaker 1: maybe as strong as you think, UM for a couple

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Speaker 1: of reasons, mostly because I think a lot of it

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Speaker 1: and maybe not to you, A lot of it to

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Speaker 1: a lot of people is getting to eighth straighte finals.

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Speaker 1: But where I would push back is well, he did

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Speaker 1: have the mental toughness to make the finals every year.

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Speaker 1: He also did get a certain sense of resets in

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Speaker 1: that he got to change teams halfway through that. When

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Speaker 1: Jordan retired in ninety three, he had been with the

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Speaker 1: same organization for nine years, and he had been with

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Speaker 1: the same real group of guys for six or seven.

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Speaker 1: Not really at any point in Lebron's career as he's

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Speaker 1: been with the same group of guys for that long

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Speaker 1: unless you count that first Cleveland stands right, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and even ter turn over Hawn to turnover, especially as

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Speaker 1: they were trying to find pieces to fit around him.

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Speaker 1: So my argument would be, while he didn't necessarily, you know,

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Speaker 1: he did make the finals a year, which obviously is

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Speaker 1: an incredible, credible feed no matter who you're facing. That

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Speaker 1: the East was, I would say historically, especially towards the

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Speaker 1: back half of that run. I thought the front end,

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Speaker 1: especially the early Miami years, the week He's were still

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Speaker 1: pretty good. As we got towards the later Miami years

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Speaker 1: and then the Cleveland years, I thought these was terrible,

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Speaker 1: to be quite right with you, and he did, and

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Speaker 1: he did get that little reset where he gets to

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Speaker 1: choose a new group of teammates. So while he's still

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Speaker 1: playing all those years, he's there is not that internal

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Speaker 1: fatigue organizationally and from a chemistry standpoint of being around

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Speaker 1: the same guys over and over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: And we even saw it in the short standing Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: where I mean, we know what Kyrie is at this point,

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Speaker 1: but him and Lebron got sick of each other after

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Speaker 1: three years. You know, if Lebron would have been with

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Speaker 1: the same franchise for eight or nine as my cat,

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Speaker 1: maybe he's maybe things look a little bit tempering. So

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Speaker 1: I don't think that The only reason I would disagree

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Speaker 1: with that specific point is like sure like he got

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Speaker 1: along extremely well with Dwayne Wade, and he's getting along

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Speaker 1: extremely well with Anthony Davis and even Kevin Love, who,

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Speaker 1: but for all intents and purposes, was a guy who

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Speaker 1: was a little bit of a loner. That's kind of

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Speaker 1: his personality. Even him and Lebron kind of figured it

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Speaker 1: out towards the end. So I think, like a lot

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Speaker 1: of times the Kyrie dynamic has shed a like an

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Speaker 1: unfair negative light on that relationship. But like my biggest

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Speaker 1: pushback on the Lebron shuffling the deck thing is like,

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Speaker 1: to me, the Lebron shuffling the deck thing is was

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Speaker 1: his counter to some pretty unfortunate luck with his teammates

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Speaker 1: over the years. For instance, I've always said like if

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Speaker 1: Lebron was had Anthony Davis drafted a few years after him,

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Speaker 1: and he could spend his entire career with Anthony Davis,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he ever leaves Cleveland to begin with.

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Speaker 1: I think if Dwyane Wade stays healthy and as much

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Speaker 1: of the same player as he was in two thousand

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Speaker 1: eleven throughout the two thousand and twelve, thousand, thirteen, thousand

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Speaker 1: and fourteen seasons, I don't think he leaves Miami. And

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Speaker 1: then if Kyrie stays and Kevin Love stays and and honestly,

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Speaker 1: like I think one of the biggest reasons he went

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Speaker 1: to l A was the Kevin Durant thing with the

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Speaker 1: Golden State Warriors, Like I think he that coupled with

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Speaker 1: the Kyrie Irving, uh, the trade kind of made him

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Speaker 1: realize he needed to kind of shuffle his deck again.

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Speaker 1: But I think, like for Lebron, different than other stars

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Speaker 1: that are in that top tier, he always was kind

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Speaker 1: of put in a position where he could have admirably

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Speaker 1: continued to fight with the same situation, but there wasn't

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Speaker 1: really much of a realistic option. If you look at

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Speaker 1: their goats. You've got Michael Jordan, who had Scottie Pippen

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Speaker 1: for his entire prime. You've got Tim Duncan, who arguably

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Speaker 1: played with the greatest organization, you know, literally potentially in

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Speaker 1: the history of modern But that was that? Was that

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Speaker 1: more Duncan or was that more of the organization? We

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Speaker 1: see where the organization is at now they're middling. They

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Speaker 1: struggled to keep Kauaiian in with their organization and now

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Speaker 1: they're barely a playoff team. There's truth to that. But

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Speaker 1: Pop himself will give Tim Tim Duncan more credit for

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Speaker 1: anything for the organization than he'll take and that's Pop

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Speaker 1: being Pop partially. But I think there is a lot

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Speaker 1: of truth to it. Duncan was the rock of that organization.

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Speaker 1: I agree. I think it takes two though that that's

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Speaker 1: my point is like I think, like if Lebron was

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Speaker 1: in a similar situation where he had a good front

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Speaker 1: office and they were good at drafting, and they did

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Speaker 1: have a cup a really key clutch moves over the

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Speaker 1: course of the years that refreshed their roster, like Kauai

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Speaker 1: like manor genobly stuff like that. I really do think

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Speaker 1: Lebron would have stayed. That's kind of my key with

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Speaker 1: my point is like so that but would be what

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Speaker 1: about Miami, Well, Miami, So Miami was towards the end.

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Speaker 1: I really do think Lebron saw the writing on the

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Speaker 1: wall with Dwayne Wade, like I think, so I like,

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Speaker 1: there the reality. Like you know, in two thousand twelve

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Speaker 1: and two thousand thirteen, d Wade retooled his game to

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Speaker 1: maintain impact, especially on the defensive end of the floor

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Speaker 1: and as a playmaker and as a mid range score.

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Speaker 1: But the truth of the matter is that, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: in in two thousand and twelve two thousand and thirteen,

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Speaker 1: Wade wasn't top three player in the league Dayane Wade.

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Speaker 1: He was more like a kind of like we see

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler now, like that guy in that eleven to

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Speaker 1: fifteen range who's extremely Although I know you disagree abou

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler, but it was that I think I think

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Speaker 1: that I think that d Wade had fallen significantly off

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Speaker 1: of that point and a lot of that shine was

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Speaker 1: still on the apple, so to speak. So you know,

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Speaker 1: you look at the roster and it looked like it

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Speaker 1: was incredible, but there especially in those last three years,

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Speaker 1: they leaned extremely heavily on Lebron and I mean Bosch.

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Speaker 1: You know, the realities is that Miami team was still

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Speaker 1: good at the end. I mean, there's a reason why

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Speaker 1: they made the finals in two thousand fourteen. Bosch was

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Speaker 1: really blossoming as a stretch five at that point. He

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Speaker 1: was taking a lot more threes, making a lot more threes.

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Speaker 1: But the reality is is like Wade was, Wade was

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Speaker 1: barely playing. I think he only played like fifty games

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Speaker 1: that season. When he did play, he was in the

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Speaker 1: teens as far as points per game goes. He was

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Speaker 1: a shell of himself offensively, I think Lebron saw the

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Speaker 1: writing on the wall. And my whole point to that is, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, like look at Kobe Bryant's career.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was happy when he was winning with Shack,

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Speaker 1: and then when him and Shack you know, lost a

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Speaker 1: couple of years in a row two thousand, three thousand

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Speaker 1: four he was kind of burnt out with that situation.

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Speaker 1: Then he found himself without Shack understand inning that it

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Speaker 1: was a lot harder to win than he thought. And

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Speaker 1: then he threw a hissy fit and called into a

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Speaker 1: local sports radio broadcast and demanded a trade and like.

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Speaker 1: But then all of a sudden he gets pall gasol

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Speaker 1: and he's happy again, and now he wants to and

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Speaker 1: like and and I don't think on the Kobe stuff,

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Speaker 1: but I hear you there, because I mean, look, I

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Speaker 1: grew up in l A. All that stuff definitely happened, right.

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Speaker 1: There was a time where he was very very unhappy

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Speaker 1: with with the organization, and Lebron, to his credit, took

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Speaker 1: four things into his power. But I think that's also why,

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Speaker 1: in a way you can point to why he I

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Speaker 1: don't know if blames the right word, but he deserves

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Speaker 1: more blame for some of the ways his career has

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Speaker 1: played out, for maybe not winning quote unquote as much,

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Speaker 1: even though he does have four championships in seventeen years,

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Speaker 1: so it's not like he hasn't won. But he has

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Speaker 1: taken more control of his career, for better or for

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Speaker 1: worse than anybody in NBA history. Um, So with that

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Speaker 1: comes probably more credit, which I think he gets a

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Speaker 1: lot of, but it also comes more blame. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's why you pointed to this, Yes, why he

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Speaker 1: is so polarizing. You know, I think I think it's

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Speaker 1: like a trust issue thing, like if you, for instance,

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Speaker 1: like I've been fortunate that I've been in relation. My

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Speaker 1: marriage is is like you know, rock solid and we're good.

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Speaker 1: But like I've heard stories from friends of mine who

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Speaker 1: have been cheated on or like things like that, Like

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Speaker 1: trust issues linger, and they change the way that you

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Speaker 1: approach future relationships. And like, I really do think Lebron

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Speaker 1: was so scarred over by Dan Gilbert than Danny Ferry

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Speaker 1: that he was like, I don't trust the front office.

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Speaker 1: And then there was a big story in two thousand fourteen, uh,

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Speaker 1: the heat cut. I believe it was either they cut

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Speaker 1: or traded Mike Miller for salary relief, and Lebron, like

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Speaker 1: before the Finals, was deeply offended because he was like,

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Speaker 1: why aren't you guys willing to spend the extra money

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Speaker 1: to to give us this depth that we need now

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Speaker 1: Mike Miller wouldn't have made a difference. But my point

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Speaker 1: is is, like I think that starting in Cleveland, Lebron

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Speaker 1: kind of formed trust issues with the front office. And

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Speaker 1: I really do think that his entire career is shaped

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Speaker 1: by a simple premise that he's like, I've got to

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Speaker 1: do this myself. Now I agree with what My big

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Speaker 1: point that I agree with you on is, like I

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Speaker 1: do think you'll hear a lot of Lebron fans try

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Speaker 1: to portray that as a like, as a positive to Lebron,

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Speaker 1: like as a oh, like, Lebron didn't have help, so

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Speaker 1: he did all these things. My my equation, my way

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Speaker 1: of rationalizing it, is more that this was his version

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Speaker 1: of having a great star teammate. While players like Magic

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Speaker 1: Johnson and Kareem had each other, and while MJ had Pippen, like,

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Speaker 1: Lebron had kind of a smorgaspord of of of supporting

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Speaker 1: pieces because he shuffled the deck, and that to me

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Speaker 1: kind of amounts to a similar type of effect to

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Speaker 1: what those players had. What I'm saying is I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to penalize Lebron for it either, you know, because

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Speaker 1: I do think you hear some detractors that will say

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Speaker 1: that Lebron deserves criticism for shuffling the deck, when I

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Speaker 1: think what that was was a guy who took his

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Speaker 1: destiny into his own hands because he didn't want to

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Speaker 1: have an Anthony Davis type situation where seven years go

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Speaker 1: by and you made the playoffs twice. You know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, which is fair. I just think from my perspective,

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Speaker 1: I would exprested that Miami organization more just because patent

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Speaker 1: he's proven. I spose it wasn't as proven at the time.

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Speaker 1: Now he's proven. Um, I would have trusted that organization

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Speaker 1: to get it done more. I agree with you on that.

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Speaker 1: I agree, I think it would have worked out. Still,

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Speaker 1: I think exactly get in Miami. I mean, i mean,

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Speaker 1: look look at look at how they've recovered from losing.

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Speaker 1: But nobody else has done even remotely close in this one.

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Speaker 1: And it's been Cleveland both times. So it's it's tough

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Speaker 1: to make to draw an Apple's Apples comparison there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they missed the playoffs the following year, but Boss had

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Speaker 1: the blood clot thing and they probably would have made it.

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Speaker 1: And then they made it the next year, made it

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Speaker 1: to the second round, so I and they got to

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Speaker 1: a Game seven with Toronto where they would have had

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Speaker 1: a chance to play Cleveland. I agree with you. I like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying like I think Lebron got by d

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Speaker 1: Wade's decline, and I think I think he had a

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Speaker 1: meeting with pat Riley, and pat Riley was like, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: I got what was the left handed shooter from Duke

430
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: what's his name? Um, uh no, he might even uh

431
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 1: he was the six ten white dude shooter from Duke

432
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: Josh McRoberts, Josh McRoberts, Josh mct thinking Josh McRoberts and

433
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: uh and Danny Granger, you know, yeah, and you know, like,

434
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: and we're going to resign Bosh to this big max

435
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 1: contract blah blah blah. And I think Lebron sat there

436
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: and was like, I don't know, I don't think I

437
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: can do it with these guys, you know, and and

438
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: and I And it's it's ironic because you could make

439
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: an argument that had he stayed in Miami, he would

440
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 1: have won in two thousand fifteen as a result of

441
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 1: Golden State being kind of green and uh. And I

442
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 1: think I think that they have a full roster. I'll

443
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: hope you Russell, they probably do be Golden State because

444
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: they were just mentally they probably weren't there yet. And

445
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: you can see that in the first three games of

446
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: the finals in that two thousand Picks Finals, they probably

447
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: weren't quite ready yet. They were just too young. They

448
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,959
Speaker 1: didn't have anybody with the experience. Um. But I mean,

449
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 1: I think we're getting too much into the weeds on

450
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: on what Lebron should have done instead of just you know,

451
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:16,360
Speaker 1: discussing and personally my fault, but discussing, yeah, discussed saying,

452
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 1: you know, he he had. I thought this was his

453
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: most dominant playoffs and some of that was probably probably

454
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: because two of his biggest competitors were out. But there

455
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 1: was never a playoff run at any point in his

456
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 1: career where his team looked this dominant throughout the entire run. Um.

457
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: At no point did I think this Lakers team was

458
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: gonna lose to anybody. Yeah, as much as I wanted

459
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: to fool myself and make make myself think that Miami

460
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 1: had a chance to pull off three straight and come

461
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: back down from three one in the finals, it wasn't

462
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 1: gonna happen. They were The Lakers are clearly the best

463
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: team from start to finish, um, And I think that

464
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: does matter when you start talking about goat debates. So

465
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: one of the things you point to is winning versatility,

466
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 1: which I done, which I do think matters absolutely. Lebron

467
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: can potentially win in more constructs than m J. I'm

468
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: not gonna say if he can or can't because I

469
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: would say MJ had probably nine or so title contention years.

470
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: He started making the Eastern Conference finals and um and

471
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: if you look at his career even early in his

472
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: early years, every time he lost in the playoffs, it

473
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: was either too the NBA champion or the runner up. Now,

474
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: those early Bulls teams had no shot at winning titles,

475
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: but as soon as Pippin became a reasonably good player,

476
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: they were quote unquote a contender, and that started with Lebron.

477
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: Lebron might playing a more I would say, like helio

478
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: centric style where he was handling a lot of the

479
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: ball handling duties. He was kind of doing everything. He

480
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: was distributing and he's scoring um and then Phil comes in.

481
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: He kind of influences fran goal and then they go

482
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: on kind of an unpresident run of success in modern basketball. UM. So,

483
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 1: while Lebron might have a winning versatility argument, I would

484
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: say it might not matter as much if both play

485
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: is style of play is so dominant that nobody can

486
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: really touch you. Right, So Lebron has one of more constructs,

487
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: I would say, just because he has been on more

488
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: different rosters. But even if you look at early Bowls

489
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: or nineties versus labels, those rosters are a little bit different.

490
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 1: I would say they had more scores on the early

491
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 1: rosters um, and that it was more kind of defensive

492
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: and and um playmakers on the way to roster. They

493
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: really rely on MJ for a lot of scour against layers,

494
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: especially because Pippin really started to decline offensively. If you

495
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: look at it, his playoff covers are horrific in the

496
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: late nineties. They're like worse than the wait when at

497
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: the end of that Miami run. UM. So they really

498
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: really relied on ending for a lot of sparing and

499
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: it was a different game. Uh that pace was nowhere

500
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: near as fast. Teams didn't choose many threes, which is

501
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: why it's so tough to do er and era comparisons. UM.

502
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: But point being, I think just from what we've seen, well,

503
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: like I've said, Lebron might be more personal winning wise,

504
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: I think the bull style play was more dominant to

505
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: their era, which is the only way we can really

506
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: do this right. It's impossible to insert these guys into

507
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: each other's eras, so we have to look at what

508
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: they did in their era. UM for sure, I mean

509
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: everybody like there is no definitive answer to any of

510
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: these questions, like like even you know, uh, Michael Jordan

511
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: before you know, two thousands sixteen, when when some of

512
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: the crazier Lebron fans jumped on the Lebron train, Michael

513
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: Jordan was was as close to a consensus. Uh, as

514
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: close to a consensus, uh, you know, goat that you'll

515
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: find in any sport literally like and so from that standpoint, like,

516
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: you know, even at that moment in time, it still

517
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: was contextualized by people saying, you know, oh well Bill

518
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: Russell had eleven titles, but he did it in an

519
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: era where there were barely any teams. And he also

520
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: he also had by far the most talent on his roster,

521
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: you know, and all this other stuff for you would

522
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: have you know, Kareem same thing, like, oh well, Kareem.

523
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: You know, his career was elongated by magic, and he

524
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: won of you at the end of his career when

525
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: he wasn't nearly as good as he was at the beginning.

526
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: And I'm on the team, yeah, exactly, Like you're making

527
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: all of these you're making all these contextualizations and so

528
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: the realities you can do that with the Lebron M

529
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: j debate all day, and my my angle is is,

530
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: like that's why what I think is interesting is the cases, right,

531
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: because like MJ's case is, like you said, it's not

532
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: it's not versatility. It's just a huge amount of the

533
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: same thing. And that. But that's that's a good case.

534
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: The case being like you know, for for the better

535
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: part of a decade, if this dude was on the court,

536
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: you lost, like and and that was the thing. And

537
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: and from that standpoint, like I agree with you, you

538
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: can only be measured definitively against your era, you know,

539
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: Like that that's the thing, Like we can at least

540
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: look back, you know, let's say Lebron and Stepp both

541
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: retired tomorrow, Like you can at least look back on

542
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: the previous you know, eight nine years and be okay

543
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: in this era Lebron one. More so, like there's this

544
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: evidence that I can present to you that this guy

545
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: is better than this guy, Whereas like with Lebron and

546
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: m J, it's entirely based on like you know, they're

547
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: completely unique circumstances. And even you know, like in even

548
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: just in the last thirty years, how much the game

549
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: has changed, just in terms of the xs and os

550
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: and in the way the flow of the game looks

551
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: in a half court and in transition. So it's like

552
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: it's it's all based on these contextualizations. My thing is,

553
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: like the case that a Lebron kit fan can make

554
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: is if I'm picking five random dudes or four random dudes,

555
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: and I'm picking ten random bench players, and I'm picking

556
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: a random coach, like I can point to evidence that

557
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: shows that Lebron would be more likely to win with

558
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: those guys. It doesn't mean that there's bad evidence for MJ.

559
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: It just means that there's less good evidence because of

560
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: the fact that he won in one specific way. So

561
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: like I know that if I have, you know. But

562
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: but the reality is is like if you're a GM

563
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: of a team and you know MJ can win in

564
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: one way, you can go out and build a roster

565
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: that you know will fit with what MJ does. Well,

566
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: I'm just saying like, like, while MJ's cases this like

567
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: dominance in his era that is kind of repetitive, Lebron's

568
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: cases like this just ridiculous versatility spanning a very large,

569
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: uh period of time, you know, And those are the

570
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: differing cases. And at that point, and so much of

571
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: this is subjective, Like I just you know, some people

572
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: watch Lebron and don't see the impact. You know, they

573
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: watch him and they go like, what is up with

574
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: these funky isolations at the top of the key where

575
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: he's doing these weird dribbles and shooting a pull up

576
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: or oh, man, like every time he goes to the basket,

577
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: he's just bowling dudes over and you know, oh, like

578
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: I hate it when he passes on the last shot.

579
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: And then you have other people that watch and they're like,

580
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, he's strangling the pace of this game,

581
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: and oh, well, that was an ugly basket, But that's

582
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: an ugly basket that you can depend on in the

583
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: half court of a playoff series. And you know, s

584
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: he did kick out to uh Kyle Korver for a

585
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: miss or to Danny Green for a miss, but he

586
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: also beat the Celtics by passing out to Chris Bosh

587
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: for a huge three in Game seven, and like, you know,

588
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: like that, there are huge plays that are the opposite

589
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: version of that as well. And so like people either

590
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: look at Lebron and MJ and they like what they

591
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: see or they don't. And I think one of the

592
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: reasons why I brought you on is like, I think

593
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: you're one of the people like me, even though you

594
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: would side with m J. I think you're one of

595
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: the people like me who genuinely sees the positive, positive

596
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: impact of both because like I love MJ. My very

597
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: first piece of basketball memorabilia was an MJ sports illustrating poster.

598
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: Like MJ, I have the exact same body as MJ.

599
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: Nowhere near as athletic, but like I structured a lot

600
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: of what I do around him. MJ is as a

601
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: as a basketball fan, He's one of my favorite players ever,

602
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: I just grew up as a Lebron fan. That's literally

603
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: the only difference, you know what I mean. And so

604
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: I think, like it's impossible to have this debate with

605
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: somebody who will look at Lebron and be like, yeah,

606
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: he's the seventh best player in the league, you know,

607
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: like my buddy Jeremiah. Like it's like I can't have

608
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: that conversation with you, because like you're coming at it

609
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: with too much bias, you know what I mean. Yeah,

610
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: And I definitely wasn't willing to have any type of

611
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: go conversation with the problem before this year. I'm more

612
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: willing to have it now, I still wouldn't, like I

613
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: still mean m JA because I'm an mp A guy,

614
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: and I probably will unless Lebron does some pretty incredible

615
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: things over the next couple of years. Um, but I

616
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: think to kind of put a bow on it, Like

617
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: I said, he's one of the four guys who has

618
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: that accomplishment of best player on four championship teams. You

619
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: know that is that is an incredible accomplishment matter how

620
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: you slice it, right, And you know, he got lucky

621
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: with it this year, but there's other years where he's

622
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: gotten unlucky with ines' lucky with other things. So yeah,

623
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: he definitely benefited from some things breaking his way this season.

624
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: But I don't think you could hold that against him

625
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: because he definitely had some stuff not operak his way

626
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: in the back exactly exactly, so it's tough to hold

627
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: it against him in either fashion. Um. So oh, I mean,

628
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I I don't really like this is

629
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: gonna sound like a cop out, but I don't. I

630
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: haven't done a top ten list of all time and

631
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: so long. I don't know exactly where I put him.

632
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: I think I had him before this year somewhere around

633
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: six or seven, eight, something like that. I'd say he's

634
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: definitely top five. Now, Um, it's a short list, it's him,

635
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: it's m J. For me, it's probably Bill Russell. I

636
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: have Duncan in there because I love Duncan Um, and

637
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: then I don't even know. I guess I probably throw

638
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: Magic in there, um, But I mean that's there. I

639
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: could hear the argument for Kobe Um. I would probably

640
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: be Magic for Kobe UM at five. And I, like

641
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: I said, I don't really do the top ten list thing,

642
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: but I think it's basically those five or six guys

643
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: all time where you could rely on them for a

644
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: longer period of time for winning than basically anybody else

645
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: in MBIA history. Right, Kobe came any one championship early

646
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: one champhip, ten years later Magic. I mean, if Magic

647
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: doesn't have to retire because AIDS, he might have competed

648
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: for champions for three or four more years he wanted.

649
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 1: There are a lot of things that could have changed

650
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: the nineties because then the breaks that MJ had in

651
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: the nineties essentially centered around expansion and the careers ending shortly.

652
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: Because the way that lebron Is Kauai now is the

653
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: way that magic should have been to m J. Sure,

654
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: but my rebuttal would be, so Lebron is gonna have

655
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: a longevity part on the back end here that I

656
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: don't think was afforded to guys like Mike for magic

657
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: referred because the technology wasn't, the sports science wasn't as good.

658
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: They care for your body wasn't when it wasn't as good.

659
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: Lebron can, you know, get his body to be basically

660
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: a well old machine. I can play into his forties

661
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: even if those guys. The only thing that pushed back

662
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: on you there is look at how many players from

663
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: Lebron strafter still in the league. That's the only way

664
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: I pushed back on you, like while Lebron. I agree

665
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: in principle that the league has better or more technology now,

666
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: for sure, But theree reality is is Lebron's longevity is impressive,

667
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: even just within the lens of this era. Sure, so yeah,

668
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: I would disagree with that, um, but I think there's

669
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: also something to Lebron coming into the league when he

670
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: was eighteen, and most of the guys in that draft

671
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: get it right for sure. And that's why I said

672
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: I can't I can't factor in counting stats or seventeen

673
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: years for Labroo. Yet, like Lebron's longevity argument has to

674
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: be built from this point forward. It hasn't been built

675
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: from age. It's not built from years in the league

676
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: in my opinion, because it's not like so it's not

677
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: like Michael Jordan wasn't playing basketball games. He wasn't playing

678
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 1: his mini at the same age, and he's playing thirties

679
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: something versus eighty something. But they were also probably running

680
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: three out practices in North Carolina because it was the

681
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: eighties and nobodys were probably ridiculous, exactly exactly. So I

682
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: I've never viewed that. Yeah, so it's the longeverything. Has

683
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: never been based on years in the NBA. To me,

684
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: that's the dumb argument. It's age. Age is what matters.

685
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: That's the longevity argument. So yeah, like I said, I

686
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: think he's I would probably have him top five all

687
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: the time now, just because there's been an extended period

688
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: to hear him obviously basically twelve thirteen years of championship contention,

689
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: which is insane. Um. So yeah, I mean that's where

690
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: I would land on it. People are gonna get mad

691
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: at me, They're gonna call me plunch for that, but whatever, man,

692
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: like I gotta be honest with what I see on

693
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: the floor, it's better to do it that way. Like,

694
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: and I don't know, Like I I understand that taking

695
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: crazy stances plays really well on TV and stuff like that,

696
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: but to me, it's just so yeah, I don't, I don't.

697
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: I'm just not interested in having that kind of debate.

698
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 1: And like the the debate is more interesting if it's closer,

699
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: so like when people are being honest, the debate is

700
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: genuinely more interesting as opposed to you know, like, oh,

701
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: there's this massive chasm between the two. Okay, well now

702
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: why are we even having to talk about it? You

703
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: know if that's the case? Um, And then the last

704
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: thing I'll say about it before we move on is

705
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: just like his story is not over. He's probably gonna

706
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: go into this season, is the favorite he uh. The

707
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: reality is is like if his body holds up, he's

708
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: going to have an opportunity, opportunity to add more to

709
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: this k Ason. And I do think at that point,

710
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: like with each passing season, there will be more to

711
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: talk about here. But I do think that this point,

712
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: the summer between his seventeenth and eighteenth season is the

713
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: first time that you can actually sit down and make

714
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: a case for him that makes some sense. And that's

715
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 1: that's really the part that I found to be interesting.

716
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: All right. On that note, I want to move on

717
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: to this NBA hierarchy thing. I've called it a horse race.

718
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: I view it as like, you know, a story beneath

719
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: the story. At the end of the day, it's a

720
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: team sport. And you know, I think for most fans,

721
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: casual fans that exist on you know, on the periphery,

722
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: who are monitor who are just rooting for their teams,

723
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: this cannot be super super interesting. But for people like

724
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: me and for a lot of the basketball junkies out there,

725
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: like I enjoy the idea of of kind of like

726
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: gauging where these players are at any given moment in

727
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: the NBA history. The reason why is I do think

728
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: that I think a basketball more so than any other

729
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: sport that I've been a part of that's a team sport,

730
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 1: is a very in your face, mono imano type of sport.

731
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: Like like I go play pick up still to this day,

732
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: and when I'm in the gym, I'm measuring as I'm

733
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: trying to win team games, I'm measuring myself as an

734
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: individual against the other individuals in the gym, and I

735
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: really do think that other NBA players do that, and

736
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: I think that that isn't you know, I think that

737
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: we are foolish to pretend that doesn't exist when I

738
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: guarantee you the players think about that. I guarantee you

739
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: every single player in the NBA thinks a lot about

740
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: where they stand in comparison to their peers as individuals,

741
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: and so that's why I find that debate to be interesting.

742
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: So real quick, just to to before we get into

743
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: what uh what you have is your list? I had

744
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: lebron one. I put Steph Curry, to which I think

745
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: you and I, um uh, you and I have similar

746
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: feelings probably in that regard will find out. And then

747
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: I put Quiet three over a D because I was

748
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: really disappointed in Anthony Davis's offensive repertoire being kind of

749
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: shut down by Miami in the finals. I thought that

750
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 1: he still was deeply impactful, so it's not an indictment

751
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: on his impact, but I thought that a lot of

752
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: the things he was able to do in the earlier

753
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: rounds were schemed out by spolstra Um. I had Kevin

754
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: Durantist five, mainly because of his complete lack of dedication

755
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: on the defensive end of the ball in his over

756
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: reliance on isolation scoring. I had Janis six for all

757
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: of the reasons you could probably guess. I had Lucas seven,

758
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: James Harden eight, Yo Kitchen nine, and Dame Lillard ten.

759
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: So my main, uh, I guess my first question would

760
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: be what does your list look like? And then what

761
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: are the things that you would push back on in

762
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: my list? Okay, do you want me to just run

763
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,959
Speaker 1: through my list? Yeah? Why don't you run through yours first?

764
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: And then as you get to one that's not the

765
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: same as mine, kind of explained why sure, So my

766
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: top to her the same exact as yours, um process,

767
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: and I you know, Braun clearly deserves the crowd at

768
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: this point. You know his team won the championship, even

769
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: though Steph was injured. Doesn't matter. The guy who was

770
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: the best player on the best team in the league

771
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: most years deserves that guy. It's rare when that guy

772
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: doesn't deserve the crowd. It's usually like a two thousand

773
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 1: fourteen Spurs situation. Oh for Pistons, it's the outlier. Typically,

774
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: if you're the best player on the best team, You're

775
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: the best player in the league. So my top two

776
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: are the same exact as yours for basically all the

777
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: reasons you laid out there. I think they are offensive

778
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 1: engines on an all time level, whereas I don't think

779
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: anybody else on this list is. Well, they may be

780
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: better at specific offensive skills, right like you could point

781
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 1: to maybe Katie and Quiet being better players or whatever,

782
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: but I don't think they are the same type of

783
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: offensive engine. Is either one of those guys I think

784
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: Lebron had said brings such a unique um offensive creation.

785
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: And we've talked about this before. They do it almost

786
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: total opposite ways, um, but it's superferent but similar impacts.

787
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: It's similar impact, and they free at their teammates for

788
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: open looks consistently every single night, and it's it's probably

789
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: the most dependable thing in basketball that those guys teams

790
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: are going to get open looks on a pretty consistent

791
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: basis against against any defense, any right, exactly against any

792
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: defense of any level. UM. So my top two are

793
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: the exact same. I had Kevin Durant at three because

794
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: the way I look at it, there are three that

795
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: we're basing this on Kevin Durant's health. For the record,

796
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: I'm saying Kevin Durant is fully healthy. Yeah, this is

797
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant being fully healthy or well, you know, as close,

798
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: which I think to his game the past couple of

799
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: years has not been super athletic defendant. He has been

800
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: working more out of the mid range than ever. Um,

801
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: he doesn't take a ton of threes, but he's been

802
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: taking you know, a good volume of him, like five

803
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: a game. I want to say, um, so, my my

804
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: counter to you would be and I heard the defensive part.

805
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: I don't Thinkai plays defense anymore either, and that's why

806
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: I have him over Kauai. Um And I think he

807
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: is a well a D has improved as a score.

808
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 1: I think he is a far superior score to eighties. Still,

809
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: I think Duran is one of the five greatest scores

810
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: of all time, while a D really has no there's

811
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: a chasm between a D and Kati and an offense exactly.

812
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: But there's also a chasm of the defensive end for

813
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: whatever there is there is. But I think offensive impact

814
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: is more important than defensive impact. We're talking top ten

815
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: list because if you look at the end of the year.

816
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: Every year, the guys that are left standing are the

817
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: best offensive players typically and sometimes it's the best defensive guy,

818
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: but it's typically just the best offensive players. Um So,

819
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: in my case for Katie would be over Kauai. His

820
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 1: team is not in any single playoffs in his career

821
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: has gone out like Hawai's team and not is not

822
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: from the three one standpoint, we talked about that Clippers

823
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: lass and now it's maybe the most embarrassing laws in

824
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: NBA history. Um if I did this, I think the

825
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: other day I ran down Oklahoma Cities laws is in

826
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: the playoffs? Um since well, basically all Kevin Durant's playoff

827
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: pearans is Yeah, I would say the closest thing would

828
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: be two thousand thirteen or two third team against Memphis, Right,

829
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna touch on that one too. So his

830
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: first playoffs ever two thousand ten, they lose the Lakers

831
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 1: in the first round. Lake was going to win the title.

832
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: Two thousand eleven, they losing the conference finals to the Mavericks.

833
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: The Matters go on to win the title. Two thousand twelve,

834
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: we know what happened there. The finals, they lose to

835
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 1: Miami Durant is I want to say, twenty three or

836
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: twenty four years old at that time, super young, leading

837
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: a super super young team to the finals and actually

838
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: played really well. Um Russ was hit or miss and

839
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: Harden was absolutely awful in that series. They lose the

840
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: Memphis No Russ. The starters in that series Kevin Durant,

841
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 1: Reggie Accent, Serge Baca, Tabos Stefalosha, and Kendrickkins. Derek Fisher

842
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: was Derrek Fisher played a hundred four minutes in that

843
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: series in five games, so he's averaging around thirty minutes

844
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: a game. H Kevin Martin was playing like thirty minutes

845
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: a game. Redgie Acson played like thirty five minutes a game.

846
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: That was a god awful basketball team. And Katie did

847
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: not play well well. I shouldn't even say that. He

848
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: sport game from the field, so it's not like he

849
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: played awful. But that was a bad Oklahoma City team.

850
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: They're starting Kendrick Purpose, who were okay players back then,

851
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: but but nothing specialeen. They lose to a vengeful Spurs

852
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: team who goes on and wins the title. And that

853
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: series was close, a lot closer than the Miami Super

854
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: It was two oh, and then they got to back

855
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: up back and went to two two and the first

856
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: somehow get it it out just because I think they

857
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: were so motivated to get back to the finals. Um,

858
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: there was more work at play there than just you know,

859
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: a one on one series between the Spurs in the Thunder,

860
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: they were on a revenge tour. The Spurs work. Next year,

861
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: Katie gets injured, they don't even make the playoffs without him.

862
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: Team we all know what happened that both three one

863
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: lead to a seventy three and nine team. Uh, seventeen

864
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: and eighteen he wins the title. Nineteen he gets injured,

865
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: his team doesn't win the title, partially because he's not

866
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 1: on the floor. This is your easily. So my point

867
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: would be, I don't think at any time, maybe the

868
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: season when Kwai was really really good. I think that's

869
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: the only season you can really make an argument for

870
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: Kauai over Katie. But even that, your Katie ends up

871
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: winning finals MVP. UM. So point being, I don't think

872
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: at any point and his career has quite been a

873
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: better player than Kevin Durant. And my biggest thing is,

874
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you can build a championship level

875
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: team around anybody besides those three guys. I think you

876
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: can't around Kauai at this point, but it's for hit

877
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: or missed because of the injury stuff and if his

878
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: mid range game isn't going, really has nothing else to

879
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: rely on. But I know for a fact I can

880
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: build a championship contention level roster given average parks. I

881
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: know I can do it along around Lebron. I know

882
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: I can do it around Staff, and I know I

883
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: can do it around Kevin Durant. I don't know if

884
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 1: I can do it around anybody else. I really don't.

885
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: I mean, if you have a rebuttal to that way

886
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: to it, but I don't know if there is one. Well, yeah,

887
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: so I mostly agree with you the in the in

888
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: terms of your points, I think it's important to disclose

889
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: that I think after I think that there's given Lebron's

890
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: defensive impact, there's a little bit of a gap between

891
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: Lebron and Steph and then I And then I think

892
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a gap between Steph and

893
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: the next three guys. I think A, D, K, D,

894
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: and Kauai are all very close in my opinion. That's

895
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: just my take on it now. So if you had

896
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: k d above Anthony Davis and Kuai, I don't think

897
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: that that's much of a difference in my opinion between

898
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,479
Speaker 1: what I said, um that said my my biggest thief

899
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: with Kitty. His entire career has been like that. And

900
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: you and I talked to about this at length. But

901
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: he he has the physical gifts of Anthony Davis, but

902
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: has has the like similar defensive impact to like Steph Curry,

903
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: because you know, and I know that sounds absolutely insane,

904
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: but the biggest reason why is because Kevin Durant is

905
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: he gambles a lot. He is constantly standing straight up,

906
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: he gets out of position all the time. So even

907
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: though he has these amazing athletic gifts and physical gifts,

908
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: he makes a lot of flash plays. Defensive point, he

909
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 1: makes a lot of it, makes a lot of flash plays.

910
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: But the possession effort besides, really in first half I'd

911
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: say it wasn't there, yeah, and and like it was,

912
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: Whereas like Steph Curry, who's six ft three and relatively slow,

913
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: what he does amazingly well is he's always in the

914
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: right place, and he's always committed to the team defensive

915
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 1: goal and he does a great job of playing defense

916
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: with his feet and with his chest as opposed to

917
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: playing defense with his hands and like. And when he

918
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 1: does reach, it's always very timely, and it's always very

919
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 1: like appointed and focused as opposed to just you know,

920
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: like like Kevin Durant's defensive focus and effort in his

921
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: career has been kind of laughably bad for a guy

922
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: who's as good as he is. And I think I

923
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: think he goes it goes to show you that how

924
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: much we value offense, that we even see him as

925
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: high as we do. But I think my case for

926
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: putting Kauai and Anthony Davis ever so slightly above Kevin

927
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: Durant is the fact that even though Kauai I agree,

928
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: since San Antonio has taken his foot off the gas

929
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: a little bit on that side of the ball, I

930
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,240
Speaker 1: still think him and Anthony Davis is overall defensive impact

931
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: is so much greater than that of Kevin Durance that

932
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: that that to me, would be a differentiator. Um And

933
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: and for the record, that's my biggest worry about that

934
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Nets team is just you're looking at the elite

935
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: do duos in the league. I'm looking at you know,

936
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: Lebron and a d who are just they're attacking both

937
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: ends of the ball. And I'm looking at you know,

938
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: Tatum and Brown, and I'm looking at you know, a

939
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: Kauai and Paul George, and I'm looking at all the

940
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: even Stephan Clay. It's like Stephan Clay aren't the same

941
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: physical talents, but Clay is an elite defensive player and

942
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: Steph tries to be. And so from those standpoints, it's

943
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: hard for me to get optimistic about a Brooklyn team

944
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: who's two stars are basically going to look at the

945
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: rest of the roster and be like, you guys do it,

946
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that that that could end

947
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: up being something that could hurt them. But essentially, like

948
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: the last single saying Katie and then we can move

949
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: on your list, like I that, I think the top

950
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: of the league right now is deeper than it's been

951
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: at any point since the late nineteen eighties, basically when

952
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: all the eighties stars were at the end of their prime,

953
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: and when the you know MJ's of the world where

954
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: at the at the start of their prime. And right

955
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: now when you're looking at that list, a list that

956
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: has guys like James Harden, for me at eight and

957
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: be honest at six, like a ridiculously tough list. I

958
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: think you've got to differentiate yourself in some way. And

959
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: you know, for Lebron and Staff, it's that elite offensive playmaking,

960
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: you know, And for Lebron it's his defense, and you know,

961
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: for Anthony Davis it's you know, his defense and what

962
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: I thought was one of the most dominant defensive playoff

963
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 1: runs in league history. And joannest just one a Defensive

964
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: Player of the Year, and you know, and when you

965
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: get down to like Luca in Yokich, it's this unbelievable

966
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 1: passing and playmaking ability that arguably is in the top

967
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: two or three in the league in that regard. And

968
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: like so you have these differentiating skills and Kevin Durant

969
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: is scoring, but I think he I think he does

970
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: leave a lot to be desired, desired in the other

971
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: ends of his game. And last or not least, like

972
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 1: I really do think that Kevin Durant from a basketball

973
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 1: i Q standpoint, is a little over reliant on isolation scoring.

974
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: And like you said, and he has been there at

975
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: the end with every in every season, either losing to

976
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: the eventual champion or being the champion. I think there's

977
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: help permitting that's been the case every single year I

978
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: and I agree with that, but I could also make

979
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: an argument that part of the reason why he's come

980
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: up short is the fact that he over relies on

981
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: that side of his game, and like, and I think

982
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: the greatest example of it would be, you know, well

983
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: to two real quick ones two thousand sixteen, going you know,

984
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: like shooting horrifically bad in the last few games of

985
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: the series and taking like thirty shots a game, and

986
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: then two uh in two thousand nineteen him him going

987
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 1: on like the most magnificent, like efficient scoring run we've

988
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: ever seen against the Clippers, and in the first four

989
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: games against Houston or anybody watching the TV's like, dear god,

990
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: this guy is unbelievable. He's making everything, but the team's

991
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: not winning. And the team because they were too too

992
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: against Houston, and they even let the Clippers take two

993
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: off of them, and then as soon as they as

994
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: soon as Kevin Durant goes down, you know, the the

995
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: Warriors start playing their free flowing style with step again

996
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: and then they take off. Now, my, there's some context there.

997
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 1: You know, Portland wasn't super good but but, but they

998
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: did take two quick ones off of Houston. And I

999
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: guess my point is is like when when stepan Quin

1000
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: won seven of eight, when stephan Quite were healthy, they

1001
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: won six in a row and then they dropped the

1002
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: game one in Toronto, They wont game to win Toronto,

1003
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: and then play was basing in and out of the

1004
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: series for the rest of it. Yeah, he sat out

1005
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: Game three. Yeah, you're right, and like and that That's

1006
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: all I'm saying is like I think, like I think

1007
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: my beef with Kevin Durant would be you know, and

1008
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: I said this the other day on the podcast, but

1009
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: like he he was, you know, someone he did an

1010
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: interview with that guy from the Elite group Cam who's

1011
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: running the group, and he said, he goes, uh, you know,

1012
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: like what are you what are you working on this summer?

1013
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: And and Kevin Durance just like just doing one on

1014
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: ones and it's like you can tell his view of

1015
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: the game is like I Am going to be the

1016
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,479
Speaker 1: greatest one on one player of all time. And while

1017
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: I do think that's a huge asset to winning and

1018
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: why agree with you that you can be the best

1019
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: player in the championship team. I'm just saying that. I

1020
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: think there are a few guys that take over and

1021
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: because of his over reliance on that ability, and that's

1022
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: that's entirely fair. But I think he is so good

1023
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: as an I score, it doesn't matter. And I think

1024
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: when he wants to be, he's a better distributor than

1025
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: both of those guys. He's a he's a been natural passer. UM.

1026
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 1: So I would just rely on a team built around

1027
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: his offense, given you know, a baseline of defensive effort,

1028
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,879
Speaker 1: I would I would trust a team with his him

1029
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 1: running the offense more than either one of those guys. UM.

1030
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: Like it took a lot for the Wise Raptors. It

1031
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: took a lot of extra playmakers for them to win

1032
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: that title, because I was going to do any of that.

1033
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: And A D eighties phenomenal, He's a phenomenal player. UM.

1034
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: I have nothing bad to say about the guy. UM,

1035
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: But I don't know if he could ever be the

1036
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: true number one option on a championship team. He's gonna

1037
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: I think you'll get to that point. I don't think

1038
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: he's there yet. That's what it depends. How he can

1039
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:52,919
Speaker 1: start playing out of double teams and stuff. That's gonna

1040
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: be a huge part of his development. We'll see how

1041
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: Lebron factors into that, because I think he will. Um.

1042
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 1: But point being, I mean those guys are I would

1043
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: have Katie closer to the step of Brontier I think

1044
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 1: than you would. But I do hear your argument, and

1045
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: I do see why you put in kind of that

1046
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: next year. Um, So I had Katie three, I had

1047
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: Kauai four, which I think you had quite three, right,

1048
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: and then I actually had um and here's let's see,

1049
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,760
Speaker 1: let's hear the reason for so here, here's my reasoning.

1050
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: Number one, the playoffs stuff in New Orleans. I mean

1051
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: the guy in the playoffs like two times and seven years,

1052
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: I believe is what is what happened. Um. And I

1053
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: do see the argument for a D in terms of

1054
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: being a better score I guess in ISO situations. Um.

1055
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: And he's an incredible defender, So you can't I think

1056
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: when you're choosing between honest and a D, you're kind

1057
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: of splitting hairs defensively, even though I would like to

1058
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: see Janice fully unleashed on that end, which he really

1059
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: is an inbut system he's playing drop covers half the time,

1060
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: which is I mean, I know it's effective at certain situations.

1061
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: But I'd love to see him play the five more

1062
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: and get to switch and just be like super duper,

1063
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: just because we've seen, like even in like the All

1064
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: Star Game, when he got Super into the All Star Game,

1065
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: it was like bananas, how distructive he was, like pushing

1066
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: out guys in the perimeter and just pausing chaos. So

1067
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 1: I think he could do more of that in a

1068
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 1: better construct or better scheme. Um. But my biggest reason

1069
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 1: is I trust Johanna's more on a night tonight basis

1070
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: to bring the the physical and mental side of his

1071
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: game than I do Anthony Davis At this point, I

1072
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: think a DA has improved greatly in that in that area,

1073
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: but even the couple of stinkers he had against like

1074
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: my aunt or you would have like one or two

1075
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: stinkers a series. And not that Joanna doesn't do that

1076
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: um in the playoffs, but he's also carrying a much

1077
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: larger um I guess load in terms of offensive and

1078
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 1: defensive responsibility. UM. I know one of the things you

1079
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,720
Speaker 1: pointed to when you were arguing a d over Ghanes

1080
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: was the fact that ad was able to get his

1081
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: points in different ways when you know his ISO game

1082
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: wasn't going. My pushback on that would be he's playing

1083
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 1: with Lebron James. You know, he's getting points. The dunker

1084
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: spot is getting points in like you know these easy

1085
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: way by being a cutter. The Milwaukee is a horrendous

1086
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: passing tune. Well, I think Chris Middleson is a very

1087
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: good player and has become almost somewhat underrated by some

1088
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: people and operrated by others. Like he's not a top

1089
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: ten player, but he's also probably not outside the top

1090
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: thirty or top te five. He's really good, but he's

1091
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: not a guy that's gonna be setting up honest on

1092
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: a consistent basis. And that's what you honest needs at

1093
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: this point, because if you can get him a guy

1094
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 1: like that, he's gonna be insanely impactful. You're right, they're

1095
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: the best playmaker on the team. Might be what George

1096
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 1: Hill here bledsoe. I mean that there are so many

1097
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: times where I'm watching Bucks games and you honestly has

1098
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: a guy skilled on his back or he's like open

1099
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 1: cutting down the lane and they just flat out and

1100
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 1: miss him. You know, it's like, Okay, that's an easy

1101
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: two points. That's an easy two points. That was that

1102
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: he probably have gotten Thoult on that cut. You know,

1103
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: it's and it starts to add up where he's I

1104
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: don't like the way that he's almost been taught to

1105
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: play at this point by Bud and that Buck stat. Um.

1106
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: So I'm relieving a lot of the blame from the

1107
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 1: honest here and I realized that. Um. But I think

1108
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: my my bigger point sorts around that he's led sixty

1109
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: win teams basically in back to back seasons, and even

1110
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: though there are the playoff failures, they were two games

1111
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: away from making the NBA Finals last year. Um. If

1112
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: a couple of things go differently, they're up three oh

1113
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: in that series and they're probably playing in the finals. Um.

1114
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: And like I said, I just trust him more on

1115
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: a night to night basis, I just do just from

1116
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: an effort Standpad, I agree with you on the mental

1117
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: and effort stuff. I think that Janice's motor is as

1118
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 1: good you'll find in the league. He actually reminds me

1119
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: of young Lebron in that regard, just that like every night,

1120
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: it's like it could be like in Portland on a

1121
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: random Tuesday, and he's just bringing that intensity. I guess

1122
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: my question or my my like angle on it was,

1123
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 1: I'm evaluating them both as players who are not best

1124
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: player on championship team level players because I think we've

1125
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: gone past that on our list now. I think after

1126
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: I think the tea fours that I think Kauai, Katie,

1127
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: uh Lebron and Steph or for me, you know, Anthony Davis.

1128
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: I put Kevin Durant down as well, But most of

1129
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: that Kevin and most of the Anthony Davis over Kevin

1130
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 1: duranthing for the record has to do with like rewarding

1131
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: this playoff run, you know, like understanding that, like in

1132
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: the proverbial horse race. You know, Anthony Davis should be

1133
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: able to go into next year with a certain amount

1134
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: of clout as a result of doing what he did.

1135
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: And uh and I you know, the chances are I'll

1136
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: watch Kevin Durand at Brooklyn, Jersey next year and immediately

1137
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: remember that I'm crazy for making that decision. But regardless,

1138
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: as far as as far as A d and Jannice go,

1139
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: you know, I'm looking at them both as players who

1140
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: can't be the best player in the championship team. So

1141
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: I'm evaluating them in a different land. Do you think

1142
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: from the and from go ahead. Do you think Johannes

1143
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: would be meaningfully worse or well, okay, would the Lakers

1144
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: be meaningfully worse with Janice there instead of a D.

1145
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: So I think it completely changes their team because the

1146
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: way Anthony Davis space is there. So I think I

1147
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: think you mentioned this earlier, but I I said this

1148
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: in my in my Top ten podcast. I think I

1149
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: think uh A d and Joannice are the two best

1150
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,959
Speaker 1: defensive players in the league, and there's a huge gap

1151
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: after them. Like I think, I think like the Goberts

1152
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: and the Quais of the world are not even in

1153
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: the same like stratosphere as Anthony Davis and honest, because

1154
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis and Janice are the only two perimeter defender

1155
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: lockdown perimeter defenders who also happened to be seven feet

1156
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: in the league. Like guys like embiid and and and

1157
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: uh and uh Gobert are are examples of really tall

1158
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: players who can lock down the paint, but you can

1159
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 1: scheme them out of the paint as opposed to you know,

1160
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: like like whereas Anthony Davis and Janice can, you could

1161
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: literally put them on on DJ Augustine and they to

1162
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: shut them down, you know, and from that standpoint, I

1163
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: think that uniquely qualifies them for defensive impact that all

1164
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: of the other four forty eight players in the league

1165
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: cannot qualify for. But aside from that, and now I'm

1166
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: looking at them as set and best offensive players on teams.

1167
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: So Janice is miscast. Now I agree with you, as

1168
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: the best offensive player on his team, but I do

1169
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: think that I do think that it's telling that you know,

1170
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: when when your offensive isolation game gets shut down, you

1171
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: have to find other ways to score. So for most players,

1172
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: you know it involves closing down the lane. So with

1173
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: the Lebron and Janice and Anthony Davis, a Kauai, whatever

1174
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: it is, you shut down the lane, you turn them

1175
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: into jump shooters, right, So so there's this huge gap

1176
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: between Anthony Davis and Jannie in terms of their jump shooting,

1177
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: which is part of the reason why in the in

1178
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: the finals, even though Eric Spoelster completely closed down the lane,

1179
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis was still able to get to his twenty

1180
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: six point points per game on ridiculous sufficiency, as opposed

1181
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: to Janice falling down to I think like twenty two,

1182
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: and then the previous year against Toronto like twenty three.

1183
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: I think that both of them can be based on

1184
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: the offensive glass, and I think you saw that. I

1185
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: think even in the Miami series, a lot of Johannice's

1186
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: baskets came on the offensive glass. Both of them can

1187
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: operate out of the dunker spot with a playmaker. Now,

1188
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: to your point, Johannest doesn't really have that luxury which

1189
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: can really affect him in that regard. But Anthony Davis

1190
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: can uh shoot the ball from the perimeter extremely well.

1191
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: I guess the only I guess if I'm being fair, though,

1192
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: I would you could say the same thing about Janice's

1193
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: playmaking ability. While I don't think Janice is a great playmaker,

1194
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: I think he's pretty average. I think Anthony Davis is

1195
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,439
Speaker 1: pretty far below average, and so I think that there's

1196
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: a gap that can be uh talked about there. But

1197
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: I think part of it is rewarding Anthony Davis for

1198
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: what was a championship run. And then the other part

1199
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: of it is just the way that Anthony Davis. I

1200
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: was impressed that when the defense completely took him out

1201
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: of his of his post up game and basically turned

1202
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: him into a contested jump shooter, a spot up three

1203
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: point shooter. And a guy who operated out of the

1204
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: dunker spot that he still had a pretty damn big

1205
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: impact on the game from that standpoint. Um, but I agree.

1206
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: I agree with you that like it kind of is

1207
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: similar to the Lebron MJ thing where we're kind of

1208
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 1: contextualizing and entirely different circumstances. Like Honest is now a

1209
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: number one, Anthony Davis is a number two a D.

1210
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: A D is playing with the player that accentuates and

1211
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: uh accentuates his strengths and kind of masks his flaws,

1212
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: whereas the honest is by himself. So when the team

1213
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: like Miami exposes his flaws, it's like glaring, you know.

1214
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: But I see where we're coming from on there, and

1215
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: I'll allow it. So let's let's move on to the

1216
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 1: next one on your list. So that five, eight, six

1217
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 1: I had Yoka to seven? Is that where you had him?

1218
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: And where nine? Okay? Yeah, I I have heard seven. Um,

1219
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: I think he's a championship level offensive engine if you

1220
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: put the right pieces around him. But because why I

1221
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:52,479
Speaker 1: haven't brother done to listen some of those other guys,

1222
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 1: Because the defense as a center, it's really hard to

1223
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: build around a guy who can't detect the him at

1224
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: a fairly elite level, right if you're if you can

1225
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: you can hide guards defensively, you can even hide wings

1226
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: to a certain extent, not as much, but you can't

1227
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: really hide centers. Um. So if he was better defensively,

1228
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: if he somehow figures out that end, they're gonna be scary.

1229
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 1: That Denver team is gonna be really scary because I

1230
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: think they're starting to build something there. Um. And he

1231
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: is a tremendous, tremendous offensive talent. I mean, I obviously

1232
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: wasn't old enough to watch anybody like Bill Walton play,

1233
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: but or or Vitus a bonus really, but those are

1234
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: kind of the two names that are throwing around as

1235
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: the greatest passing big men ever. Um, I would be

1236
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: shocked if yog which wasn't right there with those guys.

1237
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 1: I mean, he is a tremendous pastor. He can score

1238
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: an isolation. Not as good as some of the other guys,

1239
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 1: and I think you pointed this to not as good

1240
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: as some of the best guys, but he can absolutely

1241
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: do it. Um. His numbers get better in the playoffs,

1242
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: his shooting percentages, his scoring. I'm not sure if it's

1243
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: a Cisco up or down, but he usually outperforms his

1244
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 1: reagul their season. At least through the first two playoff

1245
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: appearances of his career, he outperforms his regular season in

1246
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: the playoffs, which is huge, big margin, by a big margin.

1247
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 1: So I mean, I could really even hear an argument

1248
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: for putting him as high as like five, but I would,

1249
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: I really just because of the chasm between the defensive

1250
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,439
Speaker 1: end between him and a D And honest, I would

1251
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: have a really tough time gating that because they're both

1252
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,439
Speaker 1: so unpactful defenders. They're they're defensive player of the year

1253
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: type of defenders, while Yokich is middle tier at best. Um.

1254
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 1: So I mean, obviously it's for mendas player, um, a

1255
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: guy that I love watching play, But yeah, I think

1256
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: seventh about right for him. Who do you have at seven?

1257
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: So I I put Luca at seven and got part

1258
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: in an eight. And the big reason why I put

1259
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: below those guys centers around what you said before, like

1260
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: the difficulty around scheming for a bad defensive center and

1261
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: then to just like not quite as dumb and it

1262
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: as a as a score. And I think a lot

1263
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 1: of people would say a lot of people would say oh, well,

1264
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: why did Yogis beat the Clippers and Luca didn't? And

1265
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: I think what I would tell you is that I

1266
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: really do think that the Kristaps injury hurt that Dallas team,

1267
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 1: and I think there's a really good case that that

1268
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: could have been a first round loss if if Kristaps

1269
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 1: was healthy. And the reality is is what I view

1270
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: Luca as is basically a perimeter Yogis who's a better

1271
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 1: score and who's easier to scheme around defensively. So that

1272
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: was the big reason why I had him up there.

1273
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: And then the big and and then Harden similar thing.

1274
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 1: Harden just uh, Harden's uh this postseason Actually, as much

1275
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: as I could slander him for other things, he still

1276
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: managed to score the ball pretty efficiently. And then James

1277
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: Harden has definitively turned himself into kind of like a

1278
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 1: Steph level defensive player, a guy who knows where to stand,

1279
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: who cannot be victimized in switches, who really his main

1280
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: defensive shortcomings come in the form of little quick lapses,

1281
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: like a random time that he doesn't get back in transition,

1282
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 1: or a random time where he gets caught falling asleep.

1283
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 1: But for the quickness to and he's strong, and he said,

1284
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: you can do that. He's turned himself into an average

1285
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: defensive player. But like, this is another tier thing where

1286
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: I think, like for me, I have, uh, these three guys, Harden,

1287
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 1: Yokich and Luca all kind of in the same tiers.

1288
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 1: So I think you're splitting hairs kind of uh, differentiating

1289
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: between those guys. And I'm kind of going against my

1290
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: own ideology here because theoretically we should reward Yokis for

1291
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 1: what was this dominant playoff run that said, like I

1292
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: the reason why I put Luca in James Harden above

1293
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: him center around that position that I've always viewed more valuable.

1294
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 1: You and I've argued about this in the past. I

1295
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 1: just I'm always gonna lean perimeter initiator in a situation

1296
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: like this. And then secondly, just that like the reality

1297
01:05:55,840 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 1: is is like yokich Is you mentioned this earlier. He

1298
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: is a very good score who on any given night

1299
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 1: can be a dominant scoring player if you leave him

1300
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 1: in isolation and you don't send help. But but it's

1301
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: so clear that guys like Harden and Luca are advanced

1302
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: beyond his skill level in that regard. But I do

1303
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 1: agree with you and I view, I view, particularly Luca

1304
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 1: and Yoki, is guys who could one day be guys

1305
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: who have that Steph Lebron type impact where it's like

1306
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 1: this supreme offensive engine, me too, me too, um, and

1307
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 1: my my pushback would be on the permitter initiative things.

1308
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 1: I think in some ways Yokich almost is a permitter initiator.

1309
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 1: He does have Jamal Murray on his team, but I mean,

1310
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: Murray was obviously fremendous in the playoffs. I don't want

1311
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: to take anything away from him, but a lot of

1312
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: the time it's his decision making leads a lot to

1313
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 1: be desired. For sure, he's a great score. I think

1314
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: we I think we even get super duper hot for

1315
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: extend a periods of time. But Yokich is the primary

1316
01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: creator from that team, and a lot of times he's

1317
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 1: having the phone going off, um the defensive blash, he's

1318
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: bringing it up, and teams are pressuring their point guards,

1319
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 1: so he doesn't. That's a weird thing about Yoki. He

1320
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 1: doesn't fit queenly into any you know one archetype. He's

1321
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: so unique um And I think guys like that with

1322
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: his skill level are so hard to game plant for

1323
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: because you really haven't seen anything, you know, that combination

1324
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: of scoring and blaymaking from a guy that big, and

1325
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: and because of the shifts that have occurred around the league,

1326
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: Like I think that's a big part of it too,

1327
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 1: is just Yokis is kind of a market inefficiency in

1328
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: the same way that Steph was in two thousand fifteen.

1329
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 1: Like he's precisely, he's so ahead of ahead of his

1330
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: position that like right now, people don't know how to

1331
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: guard it. I mean, like in two thousand fifteen, like

1332
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: guards didn't even know to pick up Steph Curry after

1333
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,439
Speaker 1: half court for like the first season and a half,

1334
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 1: like it seems for so puting drop coverag against roll. Yeah.

1335
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like and I think Yokas just kind

1336
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 1: of taking advantage of that right now, whereas like, uh,

1337
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 1: and I think that's what ended up hurting them against

1338
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 1: the Lakers was the fact that the Lakers had someone

1339
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: that could physically match up it's a bad matchup for him.

1340
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And but like the bottom line is, like

1341
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: I I think that I agree with you, and I

1342
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 1: like all the things about Yokos that you like. I'm

1343
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: just when I'm splitting hairs between him and Harden, and Luca.

1344
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 1: That's what I Those are the reasons why I put

1345
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 1: him above. So what do you got after Yokich at seven?

1346
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 1: I got Luca eight, and I'm Jimmy Butler at nine.

1347
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: So you have Hardened at ten. I got Dame it ten,

1348
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 1: So you have hearted outside of the top ten. Yeah. Yeah.

1349
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 1: And this isn't even an anti like he was thinking.

1350
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 1: This isn't like me being a Warriors fan and hating

1351
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 1: on the Houston Rockets. I just I'm to the point

1352
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 1: with Harden where it's like it's the same thing every year.

1353
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: And if I'm starting a team right now and you say,

1354
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: do you want Damian Lillard or James Harden, I'm taking

1355
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: Damian Lillard. I'm sorry. If I'm starting a franchise and

1356
01:08:57,960 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: you're as might be, I might be on your side.

1357
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: That's what this is what I'm saying because and and

1358
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 1: and it's well, Hardened might be a better isolation score,

1359
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 1: and he might have better look. So I'll preface everything

1360
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: that I'm saying about Harden with this. He is one

1361
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: of the most tremendously talented offensive players I have ever

1362
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 1: seen in my life. He's an absurdly talented offensive player,

1363
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:24,360
Speaker 1: but he doesn't use his skill set in the correct way.

1364
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 1: He has become so reliant on isolation basketball, like way

1365
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: more than even Kevin Durand to the to the point

1366
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 1: where it's so predictable. And we talked about this when

1367
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 1: we analyze the Houston l A series. L A was

1368
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: just sending a double at him. They knew he was

1369
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:40,639
Speaker 1: going to pass it out of the double one stand,

1370
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 1: so as soon as he picked up the ball, they

1371
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: were already rotating out of the double team almost they

1372
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: were already they were pre rotating because they knew exactly

1373
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: what was coming. It makes his team, while he still

1374
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 1: got his numbers efficiently this year, it makes his team

1375
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 1: so easy to garden, so easy to guard. And a

1376
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: lot of that I think was the way they tried

1377
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 1: to build around him. But I think a lot of

1378
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 1: his his statistical dominance has been been because of the

1379
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: way they both around him. It's particularly in the regular season.

1380
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 1: They've built around trying to have a guy who could

1381
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:11,720
Speaker 1: be the most statistically dominant player in basketball. And my

1382
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:13,680
Speaker 1: second point would be why I would take game over him.

1383
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 1: If we're gonna talk leadership and wanting to center your

1384
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 1: franchise around one person, This isn't even a conversation. Oh

1385
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:23,439
Speaker 1: my god, it's not. I mean, we don't even have

1386
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 1: to have the conversation. James Harden runs teammates out Damian

1387
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 1: Lillard has been playing with a guy who really is

1388
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 1: not played made to play with him and C. J McCollum.

1389
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 1: But Calum, I think could be really successful and some

1390
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 1: other um team constructs. You know, I think it could

1391
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: be like really good and Philly because they need a

1392
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 1: guy like that. But Dame could have Wind three or

1393
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: four years ago. Hey, you need to get somebody in

1394
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 1: here who can actually defend next to me, who breaking

1395
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 1: a different type of skill set. He hasn't done that.

1396
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 1: All he does is trying to lead his team to

1397
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: to win, no matter what's happening. So I think you're

1398
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: going to get a bunch of crap for this, But

1399
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:01,799
Speaker 1: totally you don't. You don't sound that crazy, be honestly exactly,

1400
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 1: And I know it's an observed take. And like I said,

1401
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 1: I prefaced this was saying Harden is one of the

1402
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 1: most talented offensive players I've ever Well, it's I think

1403
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 1: I think your point. It's gonna feel like Harden slander.

1404
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 1: But I think half of it is just acknowledging that

1405
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: the NBA is so ridiculously deep right now. Absolutely, that's

1406
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:22,640
Speaker 1: a huge part of it too. Um So yeah, look, man,

1407
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 1: I a couple of years ago you could have convinced

1408
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:26,559
Speaker 1: me that guy was the top three player in the league.

1409
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 1: But just seeing the way it is now, it's the

1410
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 1: same thing every year. It never changes and there's never

1411
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:35,640
Speaker 1: any progress. If anything, it just gets for us. The

1412
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 1: one year that he had actual playoffs success, he had

1413
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: top five point part of all time at his side,

1414
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: you got amassed a lot of his flaws exactly. That

1415
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: was able to control pace for him, that was able

1416
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 1: to get his teammates efficient looks when when he couldn't

1417
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 1: because his style and play stagnated. Um yeah, I mean

1418
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 1: it's stuff that we've talked about what's hardened before. So

1419
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: I said this in my top ten list. The I

1420
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 1: think that he's one of the few guys is on

1421
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: this list that there's a proven way to beat him.

1422
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 1: And I think that that I think that that exact

1423
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:07,679
Speaker 1: point I thought I had him low at at eight.

1424
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 1: So the so I think from that standpoint, like, um,

1425
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: I think we're coming from the same at this from

1426
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: the same page here. And you know it's funny because

1427
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,799
Speaker 1: I as I was looking at Tears, I was comparing

1428
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: hard into your kitchen, Luca, And you're right, like, I

1429
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: think what he does, I think right, no, I And

1430
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 1: I made that case based on his his versatility, and

1431
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: I thought, I think Luca, I think Luca as a playmaker,

1432
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 1: and I think James Harden is a guy who can pass.

1433
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,560
Speaker 1: And I think there's a huge difference. And uh and

1434
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:40,640
Speaker 1: but you're right, like now that I'm looking at it

1435
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 1: from the angle of Dame versus Harden, like that's like

1436
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,680
Speaker 1: I have to think about that one and Game and

1437
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:48,720
Speaker 1: to be clear, game as a case. To be clear,

1438
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 1: game has not been a great playoff performance, Like I'm

1439
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna lay that out there as well. But

1440
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 1: he just had an all time statistical regular season. Um,

1441
01:12:56,080 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 1: not that Harden hasn't. But once again, I think a

1442
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:01,600
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff that happened to Dame in the

1443
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:04,560
Speaker 1: playoffs situde a team construct. I just think they have

1444
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: not done a great job. This is a great This

1445
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: is a great segue because I had Dame over Jimmy

1446
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 1: Butler because I said that if Dame was in Miami

1447
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 1: that he would look, you know, like he'd be doing this,

1448
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 1: he'd be making finals runs and stuff. So my question,

1449
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: so this will actually be a perfect one for us

1450
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:27,800
Speaker 1: to end on. And I think it's good because I've

1451
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: taken a lot of flak for this one, and you're

1452
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:33,840
Speaker 1: kind of a good opposite perspective. Why do you have

1453
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 1: Jimmy so high? I wanted to have him as high

1454
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: as seven, but I couldn't. I couldn't be honest with

1455
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 1: myself and do that. So I refresh my mind here.

1456
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:45,679
Speaker 1: I know there were three things that you laid out

1457
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 1: as what you value for um being a top ten planer.

1458
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: It was defensive versatility, UM isolation scoring, and then uh, playmaking.

1459
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 1: I think we're the three. Yeah. It was like a

1460
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 1: leite high end playmaker, elate high end isolation scoring, and

1461
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: elite high end defensive versatility. Okay, so I would say

1462
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 1: Jimmy is very good to elite and all three of

1463
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 1: those categories. He's incredibly defensive versatile. He can basically guard

1464
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 1: anything one through four. He the way he reads rotations

1465
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:26,520
Speaker 1: defensively is almost Draymond Greenlight off the ball. He arrives

1466
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: at spots before the offensive player even knows they're gonna

1467
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,639
Speaker 1: be there, And that's like a super super rare trade

1468
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 1: that you don't see from you see like five six

1469
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 1: guys in the league. Maybe if that so, he's super

1470
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: defensively versatile. People say, oh, is isolation scoring? Is this

1471
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:44,920
Speaker 1: or that number one? How many guys in the league

1472
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 1: are actually better at than him as an isolation score

1473
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: I know, it doesn't look pretty. Doesn't look pretty with

1474
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 1: like and I'm not making a dead comparison between two.

1475
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 1: Doesn't look pretty with Lebron a lot at the time, right,

1476
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily have to look pretty. So well, what's

1477
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 1: your well, what's your rational zation for the fact that, like,

1478
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:04,200
Speaker 1: statistically speaking, he's not even in the top two, three

1479
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 1: four tiers of scorers and games. Yeah, he's a twenties

1480
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: pointing game guy. He's like Chris Middleton in terms of

1481
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: statistical production. Well, he has a super high free throw rate.

1482
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: You get to the free throw free throw line at

1483
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: a higher rate than almost anybody in the league. And

1484
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 1: when when the and I know you said, well, the

1485
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: Lakers gave bad defensive meator when they left him in isolation.

1486
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:27,720
Speaker 1: He had a forty point triple double without two of

1487
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: his best teammates on the floor, and then he had

1488
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:34,879
Speaker 1: a thirty five point Game five, where Lebron was probably

1489
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 1: better in that game, but Jimmy was damn good. How

1490
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 1: many guys can say they've gone total total Lebron and

1491
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,720
Speaker 1: NBA Finals, same position only for two games and had

1492
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 1: the worst team and gotten wins. Well, I think I

1493
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 1: think this is where people, uh, like they're overvaluing the finals.

1494
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,679
Speaker 1: I people, you know, I think this is where people

1495
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 1: went cross wise with me and I and I got confused,

1496
01:15:56,479 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 1: you know, as to where the pushback was coming from,

1497
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: because like, like, I think there's different conversations to have.

1498
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 1: Like there's a conversation around how amazing Jimmy was in

1499
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: the finals, and then there's a conversation about how good

1500
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 1: is he at basketball compared to some of his peers,

1501
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: because like, for instance, you know, Rondo was unfreaking believable

1502
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 1: and you know in four or five of the of

1503
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:17,600
Speaker 1: the playoff games, including games six of the finals, but

1504
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 1: like he was also like terrible in a bunch of

1505
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 1: the other games. And I don't think anybody in the

1506
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 1: world would say he's a top fifteen point guard, you know,

1507
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: but he was the best of the arguably the best

1508
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 1: point guard in the floor in the finals. So like

1509
01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 1: the thing is, like when I'm when I'm talking about this,

1510
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: I think people confuse me, you know, dissecting Jimmy's game

1511
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:41,560
Speaker 1: with slandering his performance. His performance in the finals was unbelievable.

1512
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 1: He was he was the reason why that series win

1513
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 1: six games. There's absolutely no other opinion you can hold.

1514
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 1: And I'm not slandering that. I'm just saying, you know.

1515
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 1: And for instance, one of the reasons why I spoke

1516
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 1: so much about the Laker defensive effort is the Lakers

1517
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 1: defense has never been a great isolation defense team. They

1518
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 1: consistently have had have put weak individual defenders on the floor.

1519
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 1: Danny Green was a weak individual defender this year. Cantabious

1520
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 1: call Bo Pope was a weak individual defender this year.

1521
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 1: There are centers. While they did okay, like Dwight had

1522
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 1: some success against your kids, but there their centers were

1523
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 1: not good in switches this year. Their whole scheme was

1524
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:28,679
Speaker 1: built on if you got you, you would put Lebron

1525
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 1: or a d on the best player, but if for

1526
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: whatever reason, a screen or some sort of action got

1527
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:36,719
Speaker 1: them off of the body, you would send help in double,

1528
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:38,680
Speaker 1: And that was the problem that I had with it,

1529
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 1: is like, you're right, Jimmy absolutely towards Mark Keith Morris,

1530
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,720
Speaker 1: and he absolutely torched contabious, called Pope Pope, and he

1531
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 1: absolutely towards you know, Caruso when he was too small,

1532
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:50,760
Speaker 1: and all these other things. But I I always just

1533
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,439
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, we had all of this evidence

1534
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 1: for basically six years that Jimmy was a twenty point

1535
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 1: of game playoff guy, the twenty one point a game

1536
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 1: regular season guy, and then two games in the finals happened.

1537
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:08,720
Speaker 1: And while those finals performances should be lauded for what

1538
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:12,559
Speaker 1: they are, which is amazing finals performances, and Jimmy deserves

1539
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 1: credit all of the above. If I'm projecting forward, like

1540
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the Anthony Davis jump shooting thing,

1541
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 1: Like Anthony Davis deserves all this credit for making a

1542
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 1: ton of amazing contested jump shots in that playoff run.

1543
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 1: But the reality is is that, like, if you're projecting

1544
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 1: for next season, he's probably he's probably not gonna be

1545
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 1: a fifty mid range guy, you know, so, and that's

1546
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:36,759
Speaker 1: that's all I'm saying with Jimmy, is like Jimmy's Finals

1547
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:39,799
Speaker 1: performance was unbelievable, But we have six years of evidence

1548
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:42,519
Speaker 1: that he's a below average isolation scorer or you know,

1549
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 1: in that Chris Middleton tier, meaning like he's very good,

1550
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of guys who are better than him.

1551
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:50,240
Speaker 1: So my my pushback would be, I think he's more

1552
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:52,880
Speaker 1: reliable in the playoffs because she can get to the

1553
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:55,720
Speaker 1: free throw line in Middleton camp for sure. And I

1554
01:18:56,320 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 1: for the record, Jimmy Butler, I'm just saying, I'm saying that,

1555
01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:05,720
Speaker 1: like his impact goes beyond his stats. I'm just saying that,

1556
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,720
Speaker 1: like I don't. I think he's closer to what his

1557
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 1: averages are than thirty point triple double guy. Sure, And

1558
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: that's so my argument would set in the center around

1559
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:19,320
Speaker 1: Jimmy being uniquely impacted. He is one of the most

1560
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:21,640
Speaker 1: scalable players in the league. I think we've seen if

1561
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 1: you need him to get thirty, he can't if you

1562
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 1: don't want to have to do it every night. But

1563
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 1: if you need him to do it, he can't. He's

1564
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:31,920
Speaker 1: also a super duper underrating playmaker. He's a really good

1565
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 1: pastor um and I think his ISO game is more

1566
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 1: reliable in the playoffs than other guys. Is that Sixers

1567
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 1: team last year took the Rappers, the eventual champion Rappers,

1568
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: to seven games, but then be scoring like seventeen points

1569
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:47,720
Speaker 1: a game on like thirty seven percent shooting like and

1570
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 1: that a lot of that was due to Jimmy being

1571
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 1: able to go head to head with Kauai and not

1572
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 1: from a scoring standpoint, but just being impactful in so

1573
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 1: many unique ways. It's it's the same argument that I'd

1574
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 1: almost made from Draymond four or five years ago being

1575
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 1: a top ten player. Right, The numbers are never gonna

1576
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 1: look great, you know. Some of it is dependent on

1577
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 1: team construct where you can put certain guys around him.

1578
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 1: But if those guys around him, he is so impactful

1579
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:13,879
Speaker 1: that he's going to give your team like Conference Finals

1580
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:19,080
Speaker 1: four basically, right. So while I do understand not putting

1581
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 1: him there for the reasons you laid out, I think

1582
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 1: he can fit into so many different constructs and he

1583
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 1: the same amount of impactful or more impactful depending on

1584
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:30,640
Speaker 1: where he is that I think he has a case

1585
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 1: for top ten. I mean, so you had you had

1586
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 1: a player on the final seven, right or was it

1587
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 1: I can't remember Jimmy yeah, nine, nine, nine, So I

1588
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: guess I had him behind Luke. So before the season,

1589
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: he won three playoffs series, one when he was a

1590
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 1: very small role role player with the Bowls I think

1591
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve or something, and then uh,

1592
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:54,840
Speaker 1: and then he basically won two first round playoff series

1593
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 1: in the Eastern Conference, the terrible, terrible Eastern Conference. Other

1594
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:00,160
Speaker 1: than that, he hasn't won a playoff series. So I

1595
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 1: guess my question for you would be, you know a

1596
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: player at that level, you know, I would like to

1597
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:10,479
Speaker 1: see And I guess that's I guess the other guys

1598
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 1: in his peer in his his peers in that tier,

1599
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 1: like like Luca and Yo Kits are also kind of

1600
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, lacking the volume of success. So I'm with

1601
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:22,720
Speaker 1: I think that again it's splitting hairs because like for

1602
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 1: me putting him at eleven, all I'm doing is I'm

1603
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:27,760
Speaker 1: putting Damon James Harden about him and you're not, you know,

1604
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:30,719
Speaker 1: And it's not that I think he's been in terrible

1605
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 1: situations until basically this year, I mean, like uniquely bad situation.

1606
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:37,680
Speaker 1: Chicago tried that whole three Alpha's thing with him and

1607
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:42,639
Speaker 1: Wade and Rondo Um and then he was in Minister.

1608
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:44,759
Speaker 1: He took that MINNITOA the team the playoffs in Minnesota,

1609
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 1: fret that hadn't been in the playoffs in seventeen years

1610
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:49,639
Speaker 1: and they haven't been sent And we know the story

1611
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:52,559
Speaker 1: on Caton Wiggins. Now those guys aren't winning players. Um

1612
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 1: and then Philly, that organization is a dumpster fire most

1613
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 1: playoffs success. And then this year, you know, the he

1614
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:03,560
Speaker 1: team that hadn't been hadn't really sniffed the finals in

1615
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 1: a while, he took him there. So and and I

1616
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 1: think what he has the ability to do is say, Okay,

1617
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 1: I need just to try to get thirty on this night.

1618
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: I can help by scoring volume. I can try to

1619
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:14,880
Speaker 1: get to the free throw line more. I can take

1620
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 1: a couple more jump shots on nights where you know

1621
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 1: band has it going. I'm gonna be the most impactful

1622
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 1: defensive player on the floor. You know a nights were

1623
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:23,680
Speaker 1: go on doing more the playmate. I'm gonna be a

1624
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 1: great cutter. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that.

1625
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:27,400
Speaker 1: For most guys, I don't think are willing to do that.

1626
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 1: And I think that is super duper value valuable, and

1627
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:32,400
Speaker 1: I think we actually undervalue it, the willingness to play

1628
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 1: different rules at a highly highly impactful level, and he

1629
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:37,439
Speaker 1: could do all of them. The only he can't do

1630
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 1: it is super highly impact the level is shoot three

1631
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:42,680
Speaker 1: pointers and and that would be my argument. He does

1632
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:47,760
Speaker 1: so many things that a really elite level. Well tell me,

1633
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 1: I think I think you have at least got me

1634
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:52,760
Speaker 1: to open up my mind a little bit on a

1635
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:56,680
Speaker 1: couple of things, namely that my James harden Slader may

1636
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:03,200
Speaker 1: not be enough that uh, I actually see the Anthony Davis,

1637
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: you honest thing from a different light. And I understand

1638
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:10,600
Speaker 1: your case for Kevin Duranti's highest three. Um. Uh, this

1639
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 1: is why I wanted to have you on. I think

1640
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 1: you bring an interesting perspective and uh, I think you

1641
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 1: and I disagree on a lot of stuff, which I

1642
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 1: think is good. But at the same time, you're not

1643
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:20,760
Speaker 1: an absolute pain in the ass about it, so that

1644
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:23,200
Speaker 1: makes it a little bit easier. But anyway, dude, I

1645
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 1: really appreciate you taking the time to come on. That

1646
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 1: was a good a wow, an hour and a half

1647
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 1: and a half that was got back to work. Yeah,

1648
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,040
Speaker 1: I hear you, I hear you, But thank you so much.

1649
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to convert this into an audio file,

1650
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 1: so that I can put it on my podcast feed

1651
01:23:37,439 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 1: for all of you who have listened. Um, but again thanks,

1652
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 1: and then at some point in the future during this

1653
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,640
Speaker 1: UH offseason, we'll come up with something fun else to

1654
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,120
Speaker 1: talk about, just to kill a time, all right, brother,

1655
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:50,479
Speaker 1: have a good one. Letter