1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's podcast featuring conversations with industry 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, Business 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: editor for Variety Today. My guest in New York is 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Amy Emeric, chief Content Officer and President North America of 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: Refinery twenty nine. The audience is the boss of me. 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: That's em Ris Mantra for leading the digital lifestyle brand 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: that targets young women. Emrik joined the company from Vice 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: about five years ago to ramp up its video strategy. 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: Long and short form video was a major goal of 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: Refinery four founders. That early focus has allowed the independently 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: owned company to weather the storm and the wake of 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: Facebook's now infamous algorithm ship that has taken such a 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: toll on digital publishers. Emirate's background as a producer and 14 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: executive for MTV and Travel Channel and other brands has 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: prepared her well to court the Refinery twenty nine demo 16 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: with what she calls a bal on diet of style 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: and substance. Amy America, President North America and Chief Content 18 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: Officer for Refinery twenty nine, Thanks for stopping by today. 19 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I'm very excited So you are 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: working and one of the bigger brands, one of the 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: one of the well known brands that has really come 22 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: up quite quite quickly, has developed a following in the 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: last couple of years, Refinery twenty nine. It's known for 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: attracting millennial and post millennial women. You're working in a 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: challenge space right now, the digital native advertising supported content. 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: How are you guys navigating it? Um? We're doing fairly well. Um. 27 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: I think when I hear that today it's challenging. I 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: don't know if I ever entered the digital space at 29 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: a time when it wasn't challenging. U is basically changing, exactly. 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: And part of why I joyed was because it was 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: the wild West, right ad, And that is exactly what 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: it is. Wild. You have to be comfortable with change. 33 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: You have to be really good on your feet. You've 34 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: got to think about your strategies and review them quarterly. 35 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: Unlike when I was in television, it was a yearly experience. Um. 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: But I left television. UM, so I can enter that 37 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: space because it also forces innovation. So I don't know. 38 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: As long as I think, you keep your eye on 39 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: the prize of what you as a business in a 40 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: brand are doing and not reading the trades every day 41 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: with FOMO of what your competitor might be doing, UM, 42 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: it's easier to keep your head straight and your strategy smart. 43 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: So UM we've been feeling it definitely, but not from 44 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: like a like I've been feeling it from an opportunity 45 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: space in meaning that you feel like there's more opportunity 46 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: as some of some of the competitors maybe pair down 47 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: UM that that's That's one UM I think has really 48 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: felt competitive state heat up though over the last few years. 49 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: The good news is the rise of women UM is 50 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: happening all around us, so there's other brands being built 51 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: to service that. But I think there is space for 52 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: many of us UM as. We've kind of pushed the 53 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: movement forward, but the it all leads to opportunity. UM. 54 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: I think we've been good. The brand itself has always 55 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: been good about balance and the balance. I think everybody 56 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: high low you know, it's from the origin story of 57 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: writing about fashion, whether that's high or low a fashion. 58 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: When I got there, it was really about the balance 59 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: of style and substance, making sure we're serving her from 60 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: a political or information standpoint, but we're still serving the 61 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: very simple nature of what ms. Guy, Am I going 62 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: to buy the cool the cool lip gloss of the month. 63 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: And I think women are very good at juggling obviously, 64 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: so it's all about how we if we're servicing her 65 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: to the fullest. You really do have to balance the 66 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: load of information that someone may want. And part of 67 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: that balance was diversification of the company, which from the 68 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: moment they hired me was always the plan. I mean 69 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: they brought me on five years ago to build a 70 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: video business. I'm laughing this week at New Fronts, everybody's 71 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: video first. Well, um, luckily they thought about that five 72 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: years ago. Um, but they didn't ignore their core loyalists. 73 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: So the newsletters are still some of the this audience 74 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: that we have. The organic growth of the company is 75 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,279 Speaker 1: still the strongest. Um. It's such minimal paid it's unbelievable 76 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: what still goes to the core dot com of this 77 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: brand at a time when I think others wouldn't even 78 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: be building dot com. But at the same time, how 79 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: are we diversifying inside the affiliate business, the international business, 80 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: the video business, and the events business. Um, and the 81 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: balance of that has done as well. How do they 82 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: come to you? Do they come through social media. Do 83 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: they come in the front door through the old fashioned homepage? 84 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: They come from everywhere, from all sides. I say, I 85 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: sit in a room, a circular room with windows wrapped 86 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: around it, and they climbed through every window. Um. No, 87 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: it's a matter of how do you reach them where 88 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: they are, which you'll always here. But I think it's 89 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: much more deep in detailed than that. It's what stories 90 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: are you serving in all the places that someone can 91 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: pick us up? But we even have U r L too, 92 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: I r L, which is the events business. What is 93 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: it that we're making that shows up in the physical space? 94 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: And then how are we bringing them back into the fold. 95 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: It's the age bracket, um. Jerry labor And who's a 96 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: mentor of mine, says to me, there's a young woman 97 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: inside every woman. And if you really break down the age, 98 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: the age is a tool for marketers. But as creators, 99 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: where are we all at from an age perspective? And 100 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: how we use the tools? Not how is the content 101 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: cater to me because of my age? Two different things. 102 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: So UM newsletters tend to be they could be our 103 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: demo from twenty four to thirty four, if not older 104 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: much UM. And then you've got things like Snapchat, which 105 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: the audience is just growing and growing for us in 106 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: YouTube where we'll see thirteen to four. Um, some of 107 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: that content can still be the exact same I always 108 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: used from the plane service experience, the mascara because at 109 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: least maybe mind myself never know what scara to buy. Um. 110 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: The only difference would be somebody on Snapchat may want 111 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: to know what the cheapest mscara is to buy, versus 112 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: someone within the newsletter is much more interested in the 113 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: higher dollar value. But that goes with rights, reproductive rights. 114 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: The audience on Snapchat is very interested in sex education, 115 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: and that could be because this country has some of 116 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: the worst sexual education practices in the system. Um, and 117 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: they need information. So how are we doing that in 118 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: a very responsible way? Whereas older women might be a 119 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: little bit more interested in self satisfaction, self love, um, 120 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: but still interested in sex overall. Uh So the topic 121 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: is the same, but just how we cater to it 122 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: and to them is a little different. And um, and 123 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: so I mean the assumption is that that's largely young women. 124 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: But do you have an older audience? Do you do? 125 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: I mean that even the term older to me is 126 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: very funny. We well, we recently and I'm jumping ahead, 127 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: but we recently did a project with Double A RPM 128 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: about ageism. And when they first came to us, they said, oh, 129 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: women over you know, fifty and this is the issues. 130 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, I'm watching women in their twenties 131 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: deal with ageism. They're all told they're too young where 132 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: they you know, they should dress younger and what are 133 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: these words mean to us? And what is older? Um? 134 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: If you're looking just at numbers, Yes, there's an audience, 135 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: especially that we can reach a newsletter. Anywhere I go, 136 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: someone will tell me they read that newsletter, forties, fifties, 137 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: I've even had sixties and Grandma's um tell me that 138 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: they see that. But for us, the prime focus has 139 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: always been eighteen to thirty four. And if we create 140 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: for that, we find it reaches everyone. And it sounds 141 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: like you create, you really tailor content specific to various platforms. 142 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: It gets that granular. Yes, Um, there's we do something 143 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: called transcreation UM, which is really an international lens on 144 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: how we can take pieces of content and make sure 145 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: there's a localized viewpoint on that content. But it kind 146 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: of works for the platforms to who's the specialist in 147 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: Snapchat that can see something that maybe we made for 148 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: dot com, but what how does it need to twist, 149 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: What does it need to be added to? What ingredient 150 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: might be missing for that same piece of content to 151 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: work on Snapchat? What does that audience how does it 152 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: need to look? Could be a visual design more than 153 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: the written word UM or the video point, but they 154 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: try to tailor it to make it work for that channel. 155 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: Explained to us, how you know kind of how your 156 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: content operation works. How many people you have devoted to 157 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: creating video for the content? How much do you have 158 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: for sort of more purely editorial text based. As the 159 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: chief content officer, I always oversee the content group and 160 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: we break out the content group by crafts, video group, 161 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: Events Group, editorial group, Photo design UM. There is also 162 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: a commercial creative group for ideation branded content. However, there's 163 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: a three access matrix that runs throughout that which is 164 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: also a category. So our editorial team is focused on 165 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: categories beauty, fashion, travel, lifestyle, politics, news UM, and then 166 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: we utilize that specialty and run it through the rest 167 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: of the crafts. So it's kind of like ah, I 168 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: call it a feminine leadership principle that we work as partners. 169 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: It's not one choke to throat as capitalism likes us 170 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: to think that you have a partner in this business 171 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: in the right way to serve hers, to make sure 172 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: we're covering the specialty of what is the craft you're 173 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: making a video or an article, but making sure you 174 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: have the category expertise and what you're making it in 175 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: UM and then that's how we make it. Video. The 176 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: numbers UM editorial we probably have around fifty and videos 177 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: probably around forty UM. There's freelancers of course that we 178 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: work with UM all the time. Photo and design is 179 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: probably about twenty UM. I'm rounding here UM. And it 180 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: also is where a seasonality company. So from a freelancer standpoint, 181 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: it's a little lighter in the beginning of the year 182 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: and it gets heavier towards the end of the year. 183 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: Why why is that just because there's more just this 184 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: season of the business. It's a little lighter January through March, 185 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: and then it really picks up second half of the year. UM. 186 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: And we've been working on that and that's purely from 187 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: the at salth side of the business. The original business 188 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: is busy UM and I don't. I don't know if 189 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: there's anyone in digital or new media as I like 190 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: to call it, that ever has downtime. UM. But just 191 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: considering if you're moving at a hundred and eighty miles 192 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: an hour compared to eighty miles an hour, let me 193 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: ask you to your point about you know, partnership is 194 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: the mantra and is the ethos there, But how do 195 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: you enforce that? People can be People can be territorial, 196 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: people can be suspicious, People can be you know, women 197 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: just like you know, just like anybody else can be 198 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, can be less than collaborative. How do you 199 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: how do you make that understood that that is this 200 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: is the way that it's going to work at Refinery 201 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: Tourning Line. It's all about culture, right and how do 202 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 1: you maintain culture? Um? It is a living, breathing organism. 203 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: It's a full on ecosystem and like all ecosystems, it's 204 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: really complicated to keep it healthy. But you have to 205 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: care for it at all times. UM. I give the 206 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: founders a lot of credit that they built a mission 207 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: and a purpose and an onboarding process at the brand 208 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: that everyone can understand that the brands what the brand 209 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: stands for and that purpose and mission is the number 210 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: one fact. We lead by example and talk about how 211 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: we are on the same boat. So it doesn't matter 212 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: if one department succeeds, if the whole of the business 213 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 1: is not, What good does that do for anyone? In 214 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: order for us to really push the mission, you know, forward, 215 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: for all women to see, feel and claim their power, 216 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: how is that going to work if we're at odds 217 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: against one another? Um, So it kind of I think 218 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: we also celebrate the partnerships. It's never about one person's win. 219 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: I think the thing we love to celebrate more than 220 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: anything is the collaboration and the cross team participation and 221 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: highlight that, yeah, this took quite a few people to 222 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: get this going and to make this right. So what 223 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: we're celebrating is how you found solutions in your solution 224 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: oriented partner to everyone at the company, and you sought 225 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: out a way to make this work and to make 226 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: this piece of content great, and we celebrate that consistently. 227 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: Pierre Gelardi is one of the co founders, and she 228 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: does a monthly creative meeting and in that meeting she 229 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: literally does like celebratory um where everyone can nominate someone 230 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: else who worked well with others UM And, I think 231 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: you have to keep that and maintain that heavily and consistently. 232 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: But it's it's one of the most important values. It 233 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: is some of our best work is when we all 234 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: come together. Wow, it sounds like as you say, it's 235 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: a culture, it's just baked in UM and refinder twin 236 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: and is also interesting and that it is still owned. 237 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: It was four founders in two thousand five, and it 238 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: was really started out with the real focus on fashion 239 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: and and highlighting up and coming designers and hot spots 240 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: in New York City. What would you say was the 241 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: escalation point where it became this expansive digital content site 242 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: that it is now. You know, I think that they 243 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: tell the story of the four friends around the kitchen 244 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: table and they had this idea and stuck with it. 245 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: But the Philip and Justin, who are co founders and 246 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: co CEO, is really driving the business, and Pierre and 247 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: Christine driving the voice and the vision UM And I 248 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: think being able to be so loyal to one another 249 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: and stay true to one another helps and force those 250 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: culture UM culture mantras and purpose and uh. But they 251 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: didn't start out thinking it was going to be for women. 252 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: They it was amazing to see all the emerging voices 253 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: coming through fashion. Um. They all hustled newsletters on the 254 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: streets like getting emails right, and it was a different 255 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: time to two thousand and five, simpler times, simpler time, 256 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: but newsletters still were the main way. Email getting your 257 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: email address was the main form UM, but it was 258 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: always through storytelling. And I think Christina Pierre, inside what 259 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: at that time was a magazine publisher universe that they 260 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: were in making sure that women specifically can see themselves 261 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: differently than what was being portrayed and how we were 262 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: being represented, struck a chord and it just drove the 263 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: female audience faster than it drove any other audience. When 264 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: they had me come on board five years ago, and 265 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: it was their vision that we were not creating content 266 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: for social only. We were going to sundance. That was 267 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: what they said to me. That kind of hooked me 268 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: in for this job. Um was the fact that they 269 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: had this larger than life vision and when I saw 270 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 1: what it was they were making, they just didn't put sight, 271 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: sound in motion to it, and I didn't. I don't 272 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: think they had the bravado and understood how magical it 273 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: was what they were making it. As someone who worked 274 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: at so many organizations, you know, as a producer and 275 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: answer as a creator as an executive. I mean, I've 276 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: had fifteen jobs for MTV, Vice Travel Channel, whether I 277 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: was working at Rosie, o'donnalll MTV, I was at the 278 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: launch of Oxygen. I have seen some of the greatest 279 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: networks get birth, I've seen some of them die. UM 280 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: and to walk into a universe where women were valued 281 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: and there was more women over men, there were women 282 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: in power seats, that the culture was alive in a 283 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: way I had never seen. And Christine truly with that voice, 284 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: just so unapologetically and how she was talking about that 285 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: there should be no shame in many things, whether that 286 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: was infertility or the lack of money in your bank account, 287 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: and that space allowed me to thrive in a way 288 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: I couldn't have imagined. Because I was no longer trying 289 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: to pretend to be an executive at one of these 290 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: I could be myself and then lean into my own 291 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: power and try to to drive leadership that way and 292 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: create the content based on they were already making. Um So, 293 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: I think, especially after doing a stent advice UM to 294 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: leave bro culture, which it was at the time and 295 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: walk into this space like refinery. I kind of looked 296 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: at them and said, you you are not owning what 297 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: you've been building here and pushing that bravado out into 298 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: the into the trade and even to the consumer, like 299 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: you gotta light this place up, um. And they were 300 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: already on that path they were building at that time. 301 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: They brought in someone to run the comm's division, UM, 302 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: and I think it took and at that moment when 303 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: they were bringing a few of us from the outside, 304 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: especially in higher up executive positions, it really kind of 305 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: showed them what they had made and why it was special. 306 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: And that was exactly what we did. We just poured 307 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: gasoline over everything they were doing and lit it up. UM. 308 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: And there was a bit of how do we lean 309 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: into the unconscious bias that existed that people already saw 310 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: the brand as a little female website and your you 311 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: belong in this little box over here. The higher of 312 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: content creation still exists, right. I used to think that 313 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: reality shows where the gum on the bottom of the 314 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: shoe when I worked in Hollywood, UM, and then I 315 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: realized digital media was, how you know, the probably the 316 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: lowest of that hierarchy. But something has happened with the 317 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: democratization um of creation and I find that that hierarchy 318 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: has been leveled out to a horizontal line and there's 319 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: a lot of quality now and how we speak in 320 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: what we make. So for us as a brand to 321 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: show up at Sundance, there was going to be an 322 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: unconscious bias of people saying, who are you people? What 323 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: do you mean? What is Refinery twenty nine doing? It's Sundance? 324 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: You guys make digital shorts for young wo for young women. 325 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: Let's not forget for young women who may not have 326 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: the power that they should or representation um that they should. 327 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: So we kind of leaned into that and I think 328 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: just showed up and shocked everybody because we had great 329 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: quality programming, we had a great strategy around what we 330 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: wanted to build and why we wanted to build it, 331 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: and they just no one saw us coming and did 332 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: that would did that make a difference in terms of 333 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: the perception of the brand to have to have that 334 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: presence at a Sunday and cent I think not just 335 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: to show up the first year, but to be able 336 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: to consistently show up every year since UM and make 337 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: sure that the the content stayed really good quality. I 338 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: think has been able to cold. I felt the difference 339 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: probably three years and when I was here that they 340 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: people start to respect it. How do people how do 341 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: your users use the brand and connect with the brand? 342 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: Are there like peak times? Is there a prime time 343 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: for somebody who's going to go on there, who's gonna 344 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: go seek out refinery content? Or is it? I see? 345 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: I can tell you that, um my analytics team will 346 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: probably give you much more detailed type of day the 347 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: early morning, afternoon like mid midday afternoon has peaks and 348 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: lunchtime either lunchtime or commute time either way. Um but 349 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: and then of course late prime um But to me, 350 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: it's constant all day long. Yeah. And plus we have 351 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: to think about the traffic coming in from different channels 352 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: might have different peak times, and the newsletters go out 353 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: at certain times mornings, um. In that stays pretty consistent. 354 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: Is the Is the audience largely in the U S? 355 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: Or have you know? It's definitely grown. Our global audience 356 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: has grown. I think it's now our overall composition, which 357 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: is pretty impressive. I think it comes from outside of 358 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: the US, comes outside the U S. Yes, what give 359 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: us some examples of content that really has worked for you. UM. 360 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: You know, it's different depending on each category. If I 361 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: tell you by category, overall, I think the business of 362 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: the category UM works well, meaning the business of beauty. 363 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: So we're not just you know, talking about the beauty products, 364 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: but who are the beauty brands, and who are the 365 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: beauty craftsmen that apply that makeup, can create the hair, UM, 366 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: and who are the people making the products that you're 367 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: using and how they're making them and how they are 368 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: utilizing them. So something about the curiosity of the consumer, 369 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: the conscious shopper is really bleeding into the content that 370 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: they're searching for and looking for. UM. Entertainment never fails. UM. 371 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: I think trending topics is always going to be something 372 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: that people are seeking out. UM. Luckily, I think we've 373 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: built enough trust with this audience that they do tend 374 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: to come to us. Our organic search traffic has grown. 375 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: It's probably of our overall traffic composition is all organic 376 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: and all search. So that's an unbelievable testament to the 377 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: brand and the consistency UM. A lot of what works 378 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: tends to match up with what's happening in culture. So 379 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,719 Speaker 1: for example, if it's lifestyle, it's about small living spaces. 380 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: Ask a plant queen. Who would have thought that would 381 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: go Badanna's also cat lady, Ask a cat lady. Um, 382 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: because what we know about young millennials and Gen Z's, 383 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: they're living smaller. It's not about owning as much, it's 384 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: about experiencing more, and the content reflects that. Um. One 385 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: of my favorite stats when I started working at Refinery 386 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: was how avocado toast was going out of style and 387 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: kale was working. Um. It's good to see that politics 388 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: is working right now. We've got a column Hindsight that's 389 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: going to start tracking the election and how sexism plays 390 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: a major role inside that election. So that traffic has 391 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: been picking up. Um. Will you do for something like that? 392 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: Will you do go the traditional route of having reporters 393 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: follow certain candidates? How will you tackle election coverage? You know, 394 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: we have a small but mighty team. UM. So yes, 395 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: they tend to they'll track everyone running. Um, but they're 396 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: going to look at the broader section of how even 397 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: media is covering the election itself. UM. And I think 398 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: just for us, let's stay focused on the that one 399 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: specific of sexism and see how that's playing a part 400 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: and how we are reporting it and how people are 401 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: attracted to the candidates. Um, that'll that, but they'll track 402 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: everyone running. We do have a little UM game we 403 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: like to play that how do we help everyone within 404 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: all women in Congress become the next Kim Kardashians because 405 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: as a company that writes about the Kardashians, And are 406 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: we tracking ourselves to make sure that we're covering the 407 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: congresswomen as much as we're covering women in entertainment? Um, 408 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: And that's a little self imposed goal that we're having. Now, 409 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: does the political coverage get the same kind of tractions 410 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: with readers typically or does it have to be a 411 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: particular story that strikes a nerve in the political realm? 412 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: The categories are never one for one. Entertainment things like food. 413 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: You know, I used to work at Scripts Networks. Even 414 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: in food and home, food always normally was a higher tick. Um. 415 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: It's amazing what Kathleen Finch has done there and home 416 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: has definitely grown. But there's normally certain categories that are 417 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: always gonna super serve the audience because it's a little 418 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: bit more UM wide. But for us to see the 419 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: change in the curiosity around the politics coverage UM has 420 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: definitely been a higher search so, but the entertainment it's 421 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: more about I think trending and the fomo of what's 422 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: happening day to day. So when you hit a nerve 423 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: of like politics in a trending moment, it'll searge sky high. 424 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: What's your most important metric in terms of give us 425 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: a give us a sense of the size of the 426 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: refinery twenty nine on it. On your most important metrics, 427 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: I say, oh god, because my brain goes straight to 428 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: how many UM pieces of data we look at in 429 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: any given day. So it's such a pointed question. UM. 430 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: The unique users the most important to us, making sure 431 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: that we've got people coming to the site and more importantly, 432 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: coming back to the site UM multiple times in a 433 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: month to make sure that they don't that we know. 434 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: To me, that's the trust level that you would be 435 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: willing not to just click once, but you're choosing to 436 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: click and come back many times that month. That's that's 437 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: the trust UM. We looked at earned media impressions just 438 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: to make sure, okay, are we still saying relevant? You know? 439 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: We push ourselves to make sure that we are cultural 440 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: taste makers and trend setters. And the only way that 441 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: we can kind of track that is through earned media. UM. 442 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: The audiences interactions, how many comments are they leaving and 443 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: are those comments favorable or not? But sometimes the ones 444 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: that are not can give you more information than the 445 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: ones that are. UM. I say, the audience is the 446 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: boss of me and UH and the boss of all 447 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: of us, and they let us know when we're doing 448 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: something right or wrong and they keep us very accountable. UM. 449 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: So those are probably And then of course view count 450 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: UM and length of time of viewing time spent with 451 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: us is very important as well. What's your basic user 452 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: monthly user base been like for the say this year, 453 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: from a monthly we can hit organically just on site 454 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: thirty million. So that's a comfortable number for us, especially 455 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: in this market right now, and especially organically. You know, 456 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: I cannot pressure enough. You've got. You should be asking 457 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: anyone you work within this business how much they're buying 458 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: their audience because that tells you everything. UM. And I'm 459 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: from Russian middleman sites out in the middle of the dark. 460 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,719 Speaker 1: We want somebody that you had to buy. That's not 461 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: necessarily what you're trying to talk to. UM. So I 462 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: think it's really important that we stay focused on organic growth. 463 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: I mean that is the number one priority and topic 464 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: of conversation, organic growth um. And we've made a concerted 465 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 1: effort to shrink the amount of paid that happens at 466 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: this company, and we've done so pretty successfully. So that 467 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: to me is the legacy of the brand and the 468 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: trust of the brand that still exist. It helps us. 469 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: And when you do something like that, you have to 470 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: you have to take a deep breath and be prepared 471 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: for a drop. If you have been if you have 472 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: been in if you have been using some paid search, 473 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: at some point you have to say, Okay, I'm I'm 474 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna cut this, I'm gonna cut this tie, 475 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: and you have to be I think that's what we 476 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: all felt last year. I mean everyone felt some from 477 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: seventeen the drop off of Facebook. No, but I don't 478 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: know was everybody living you know, everyone was living in 479 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: that world of Facebook was just driving video views and 480 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: we were all going to jump on that bandwagon. But 481 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: who was even really monetizing them? But and you were 482 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: already on the video train, is yes by your arrival 483 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: kind of yes, we we had already been and we've 484 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: seen success there and it was helping drive referral and 485 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: I do think look whether how much consumption was happening. 486 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: It was driving awareness and relevancy of the brand, which 487 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: was helpful. But once we start an algorithm change and 488 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: that decline started, it wasn't a matter of just stop paid. 489 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: It was a matter of how are we going to 490 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: adjust our strategy to make sure that we can see, 491 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, watch the decline of paid in an incline 492 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: of search and what is it that we have to change? 493 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: And I got to give the editorial content optimization team 494 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: a lot of credit. I mean, that's a lot of 495 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: focus in partnership with the category leads on what keywords 496 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: are working. You know, that's not just data algorithm, that's 497 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: audience insight. What are people searching for, what are they 498 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: looking for, what are they interested in? Here is some 499 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: insight on what we might want to write and make 500 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: sure we are focused on in the coming months. Um 501 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: and that can be anything from college debt and if 502 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: that's what's happening in the market. Okay, we can't just 503 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: write about college debt. How are we going to super 504 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: serve the audience so they know how to handle the 505 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: world in which they live. In to to to manage 506 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: that if that's what they're dealing with. UM, and that 507 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: shows itself in so many ways, whether that's money diaries 508 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: you talked about the culturals like Juggernaut that it is 509 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: um for anyone who doesn't know money diaries. It's where 510 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: someone will post anonymously how they spend their money in 511 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: a week, in great detail, in great detail, and it's 512 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: strangely compelling, and and then the rest of the world 513 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: gets to comment on it, which I think is the 514 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: other compelling part UM. This was something that started off 515 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: from an inside staff or Jessica Chow, who was having 516 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: a conversation over dinner and realized the conversation was much 517 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: more interesting when people talked about how they spent the money, 518 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: not the person spending it. And so that was a 519 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 1: way to break this taboo of the shame that women have. 520 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: One out of four women only have two fifty dollars 521 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: in their bank account. And in a world where we're told, 522 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, money equals power, you feel pretty weak if 523 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: you don't have that cash. So how do we build 524 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: something that can have some joy in it? When we 525 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: talk about funds and why we have them and where 526 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: doing to spend them and that went from monthly to 527 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: weekly to daily that's now a daily column. It then 528 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: Birth a book in the books, now Birth to podcast 529 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: and that's been also a really good brand. Partner was 530 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: into it, came on board and really helped us supersize 531 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: that and even put the book on a book tour 532 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: where we sold tickets and UM. It was a great 533 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: experience for Lindsay Stanbury who was also on our staff 534 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: and she wrote the book, which was pulled from experienced 535 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: UM women in finance who gave us some advice to 536 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: help people through this, but also highlighted what we were 537 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: learning from everyone's posts. These are anonymous posts. We don't 538 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: reveal race and that was another topic that came up 539 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: a lot in comments with people assuming UM, what race 540 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: some one might be. So the amount of data and 541 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: information even we get from that kind of you g 542 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: c UM polling UM is pretty interesting. And then what 543 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: other content are we making to service what we're seeing 544 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: how women spend money. For example, a lot of women 545 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: love to spend on something that makes them feel more comfortable. 546 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: We seeing an uptick in at leisure weare and sleepwear, 547 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: so we're looking at consumer products and how do we 548 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: get involved in actually creating those products, since that's something 549 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: that the audience loves to spend money on in the 550 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: first place. Um, so it helps enforce and entice and 551 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: move us to other business areas based on that information. 552 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: How important is that? Is that expansion into things like 553 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: books and live events like is that becoming a bigger 554 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: component of your overall revenue base? Absolutely, twenty nine rooms 555 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: took off in such a way that it kind of 556 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: showed us there was an huge opportunity business opportunity, um 557 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: as well as for huge events and more importantly, I 558 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: call them their experiences. There are people who throw events 559 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: all day long. I think there's enough conferences for all 560 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: of us in this trade. Could just go to conferences 561 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: every single day, business on a lot of talking heads. 562 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: This is so much more than that. I mean, this 563 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: is truly an experience, and that's what especially millennial generation 564 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: would much rather spend the money on experience than to 565 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: own a thing. So, but more importantly, we've birthed a 566 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: generation with technology where they are all creators the minute 567 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: they get a phone in their hands. So how do 568 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: you tie all of those things together? But in the beginning, 569 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: Pierre Christine, the founders. They were throwing a party to 570 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: thank the audience after ten years and that birth into 571 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: these rooms where each room is an experience where you 572 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: can create something inside the room, but the room really 573 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: isn't finished until the audience goes through it and finds 574 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: a way to create. But each one of those rooms 575 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: is an incubator for I Pay Money Diaries was a 576 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: room in twenty nine Rooms which allowed someone again you 577 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: are L two I R L to touch and feel 578 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: the brand in a way that they just can't. Why 579 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: our podcasts interesting. We were just saying, you can read 580 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: about Amy Amoric, but maybe you want to hear my 581 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: queen's accent, get to know me a little bit more. UM. 582 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: I think it just deepens the relationship in such a 583 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: way that you can't UM. And it's become a really 584 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: successful business. We've done a partnership with IMG. Twenty nine 585 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 1: rooms will now be in six markets UM this summer 586 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: and then again ten poles in New York, in l 587 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: A and we'll go internationally and the incoming we got 588 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: from international markets wanting to bring this experience UM to 589 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: life in their locations. You know, twenty nine rooms got 590 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: birthed outside of our finance point nine. But it's its 591 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: own social sub brand now that exists on Instagram and 592 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: in all real life places. But it's just important for 593 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,719 Speaker 1: us to be able to see and touch, you know, 594 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: and experience UM life with the audience, not just through technology. 595 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: In the past, you have had some investment from traditional 596 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: television outlets, from Turner, from Script, Scripts Networks, Interactive, which 597 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: is now part of Discovery. What have those relationships done 598 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: for you? UM? I left I was working Advice, I 599 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: went to back to Scripts, and then when I left 600 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: Scripts to come to Refinery two weeks later, Scripts was 601 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: an investor in Refinery, so I felt like I've never 602 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: left Scripts. UM. They've all been great investors. They've been 603 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: really good partners to have people in the media space 604 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: UM support the brand UM. Scripts is now discuss Bray, 605 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: Turner is now Warner Media. UM. We will see change 606 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: is the only constant that is it UM. But I 607 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: think it's interesting to even see some of the other 608 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: people on the board. There's investor on the board, someone 609 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: from the tech community. Watching them discuss the different businesses 610 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: is interesting, right. The people within technology may not understand 611 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: how the originals business for video works and the people 612 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: in media see that business in multiple ways, whether you're 613 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: on the business development side inside media or you're on 614 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: the programming side inside Hollywood. So UM having them on 615 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: the board has been UM has been beneficial for us. 616 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: We've worked with Scripts, we've worked with UM Turner and 617 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, so UM, not just from the investment, 618 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: but then getting inside and getting to understand who their 619 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: people are, what their audience needs are, and then UM 620 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: some revenue transactions as well. Is there any thought in 621 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: the in the near future of any kind of public 622 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: offering or anything for Refinery twenty nine, any change to 623 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: the owner ship structure as it exists now? UM that 624 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: that's definitely more of a question for the fore founders 625 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: then for me. UM, I don't see that. I think 626 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: that the most important thing for them will always be 627 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: that the legacy lives on and that the purpose of 628 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: the mission stays intact. Um. There's still a lot of 629 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: work to be done. I'd like to think that the 630 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: world is changing for the better for women, but UM, 631 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: I don't see it as enough as I would like to. 632 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: So as far as that exists, there's the brand's gotta 633 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: go on. If there's opportunity for someone to come on 634 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: board and help us again pour more gasoline on and 635 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: light this thing on fire. UM. I think they'd be 636 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: very open to it. The I say every day, I'm 637 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: sitting on a gold mine of I p the amount 638 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: of innovation and ideation that comes out of this team 639 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. There's no way for us to 640 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: UM personally finance all of the great ideas and different 641 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: business possibilities. Um, you can only do one twenty nine rooms. 642 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: We can't handle seven of those. But we have a 643 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: co brands events team that's creating pop ups for brands NonStop. 644 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: I'd love to see that superside. I'd love to see 645 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: the originals business supersized. We've got originals that started off 646 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: as three minute shorts that are now half our TV 647 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: shows that are now development for feature films. I wish 648 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: I could finance all the feature films UM, And that's 649 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: just not a reality now. So if there was an 650 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: opportunity to get bigger, I think they would definitely consider it. 651 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: And you have a couple of specific projects on the 652 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: horizon that you're excited about, Yes, UM, shatter Box Season 653 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: three is uh in full development and production level. Forward 654 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: came on board as our partners um to help us 655 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: make that a reality, and it couldn't have been better. 656 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: Adrian becker Um is someone who I was just I 657 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 1: idolized the CEO of Level Forward. She is the CEO 658 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: of Level Forward and just an all around great woman, 659 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: as well as Abigail Disney. And we've already been working 660 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: with Killer Films and Christine Vashon, who had been a 661 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: partner with us to launch shatter Box UM its first 662 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: year to begin with. So in the shatter Boxes a 663 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: series of short films. Yes, so shatter Boxes a series 664 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: of short films created with a purpose to put more 665 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: women behind um the lens and really combat that eight 666 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: percent data that Dr scy Smith from USC put out 667 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: within the inclusionist group. When we got that data, we 668 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: felt we must do something, and five years ago we said, okay, 669 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: what can we do. We did deep research on what 670 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: programs looked like currently and realized we could do them 671 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: a little differently. We didn't need to have shadow programs. 672 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: We realized we could provide creative freedom and then we 673 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: use the power of the marketing platform to really set 674 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: filmmakers up for future success, meaning how do we pair 675 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: celebrity hype um Kristen Stewart Gabby City by Chloe seventy. 676 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: But then make sure they understand they're part of a 677 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: bigger vision and introduced them to new and emerging filmmakers 678 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: so that they can use their platforms to also lift 679 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: the other directors. We make sure we build movie posters 680 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: for the shorts where the female director's names at the 681 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: top of that poster. We go full throttle on press 682 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 1: around those shorts as if they were features, and it 683 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: allows the women to understand not just the system of 684 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: making the film, but the overall system of marketing and 685 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: distributing the film as well. So we've made twenty nine 686 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: shorts now and this last batch with level forward really 687 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: is a genre buster. Um. They did such an amazing 688 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: job of staying focused on making sure people can understand 689 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: that women directors and I'd rather just say directors can 690 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: make sci fi and horror and westerns um just the 691 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: same as men. So um, they don't unbelievable job. Chloe 692 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: seventy is uh in this second back this third batch 693 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: again as well, and she's now how a film entered 694 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: into can And I think it's so important that this 695 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: is a film festival program to make sure also they're 696 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: getting like a full run and per view of all 697 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: the other relationships that they need to be successful UM 698 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: in this business. So that's really UM, it's going to 699 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: be exciting. It's a good next batch and three and 700 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: one will we see those, Um, we will be definitely 701 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: distributing them, but we're also in market looking for a 702 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: partner distribut shion and we want to go as far 703 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,760 Speaker 1: as why it is possible. UM. Three of the original 704 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: shotter Boxes are all in feature film UM development now 705 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: raising funds and financing with the original directors. With the 706 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: original directors attached absolutely, UM no, we we partner with 707 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: these women, wouldn't even think of it. It's really their vision. 708 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: Courtney Hoffman has a film Good Time Girls, which was 709 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: a feminist western that's in development. UM. A new Valia, 710 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: who won the Joy Prize at Sundance has her film 711 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: Lucia Before and After is in development. And then Mr 712 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: Malcolm's List, which was directed by Emma Holly Jones from 713 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 1: a script from the Blacklists, which is really kind of 714 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: a period piece like a Pride and Prejudice, but it 715 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: meets the diversity of casting of Hamilton's UM we already 716 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: showed all of these shorts. Mr Malcolm's list blew it 717 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: out of the water. Again what you were saying about 718 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: the details around the casting. People want to see themselves 719 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: on screen, and that kind of a movie just exploded 720 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: and they're utilizing that data to help raise the funds 721 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 1: for that feature for next year now. So that's exciting. 722 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: And we also use shutter Box as i P to 723 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: develop UM scripted or documentary series and then take that 724 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: into market for platform O T T or network UM. 725 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: So it's it's been nothing but giving to us, not 726 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: just i P and business, but I think the relationships 727 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: we have with the directors has been some of the 728 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: fulfilling that I've ever had in my career. And Shannon Gibson, 729 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: who really leads the charge on this UM, has made 730 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 1: sure that art we are an artist first community UM, 731 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 1: and so I think that's really important for us. All 732 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 1: of the different things that you're juggling UM seemed too 733 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: in some way kind of hark back to you started 734 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: as a runner and gunner with a camera on your 735 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: shoulder shooting some of the early MTV reality shows in 736 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: the early nineties. How does that experience and your formative 737 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: years influence now all the all the things that you're 738 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: juggling right now. Um, that's a good question. I think 739 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: I'm very comfortable in chaos and I throw I've in it, 740 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: whether that's good or bad. But um, I am a hustler. 741 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: I come from a very working class family, so I 742 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: have a pretty good stamina and I never get tired. Um, 743 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: at least I'd like to think that, so that I'm 744 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: also just a curious person. I started off making documentaries 745 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: and working for a show like Rosie o'donna, where you 746 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: were learning about human interests and what interests you and people. Um, 747 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: I feel like the job is just I'm here to 748 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: support other people's visions. The only vision I have is 749 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: to see that. I want to see the people who 750 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: are not getting seen be seen. So as long as 751 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: I could support Cat who runs our experiential business, and 752 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: the four founders and Stone who runs the video business, 753 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: Shannon who is running shatter Box, and make sure they 754 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 1: have what they need to succeed, then I'm succeeding in 755 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 1: the brand succeeding. But um, I'm sure running and gunning 756 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: with the cops like I used to do back in 757 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: my day. Definitely helped me build up some stamina and 758 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: I think gratitude, um, for the world around us. We're 759 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: lucky to do this stuff and there's a lot of 760 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: people who have a lot harder jobs in this world. 761 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: So how do we add some thanks and gratitude to 762 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: that and push harder because I do think it matters. Um, 763 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: Greater art's going to shift everything. Um. So we just 764 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: have such a responsibility and accountability. I don't know how 765 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: you how you sleep on that. Honestly, there's a lot 766 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: going on. Thank you so much for coming by. It's 767 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,479 Speaker 1: really great to talk to you and learn more about 768 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: Refinery Tine. Thanks for having me. This is great. Thanks 769 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: for listening. To be sure to tune in next week 770 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: for another episode of Strictly Business.