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Speaker 1: Oh hey, everybody, Episode ninety three. I'm the Hunting Collective.

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Speaker 1: I'm super excited about this one. Phil. Uh, this is

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Speaker 1: the first of our best us and I feel like

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Speaker 1: these best us are as cool as anything we do.

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Speaker 1: It's it's like a it's like visiting an old friend,

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Speaker 1: an old friend come over for Christmas that you haven't

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Speaker 1: seen in a while. You get to enjoy and think

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Speaker 1: about what they mean to you, and so that's what

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Speaker 1: this is for me. So somehow, in a weird way,

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Speaker 1: that lines up for our holiday. But before we get

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Speaker 1: to all of that, phil what do you think about

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Speaker 1: this best of situation? Are you digging it? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: think it's a great idea. It's a great idea. Should

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Speaker 1: we do more of them? That's like maybe every every

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Speaker 1: few years? Oh every few years? Yeah, really sprinkle them

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Speaker 1: in like sparsely. Well, I mean you can only what

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Speaker 1: are we gonna do another one in six months? Or

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Speaker 1: you like, the best Little has had like a few

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Speaker 1: more episodes. You're like, now we're gonna do the best

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Speaker 1: of those episodes, the best of the last week. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly that. Yeah, that's that's a little it self agrandizing.

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Speaker 1: I think, all right, Philip, well, let's get into it

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Speaker 1: episode three. Enjoy. I guess I grew up on an

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Speaker 1: older road, a pedal to the medals. I always did

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Speaker 1: what I told until I found out that my brand

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Speaker 1: new closed a game second hand from the rich kid's

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Speaker 1: next door. And I grew up fast. I guess I

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Speaker 1: grew up. I mean, there are a thousand things inside

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Speaker 1: of my head I wish I ain't seen, and now

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to a real bad dream or being

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Speaker 1: and like I'm coming a part of the seams. But

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Speaker 1: thank you, Jack Daniel. Hey, everybody, Merry Christmas. Philip ho

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Speaker 1: ho ho. I didn't feel it. Try that again if

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Speaker 1: you want a better version of Santa Claus. Travel over

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Speaker 1: the meat Eator podcast that launched yesterday. What were we

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Speaker 1: called the Christmas Spectacular? I don't. I don't think as

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Speaker 1: this recording, I don't think it has an official name yet.

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Speaker 1: We'll call it that, but Steve calls it the some

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Speaker 1: Bitch and Christmas Special Metator some Bitch and Christmas Special,

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Speaker 1: including uh, let me call something out. I am very

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Speaker 1: sad that every episode of THHC has uh an email

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Speaker 1: notification from my laptop. I'm sorry. If you've been listening

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Speaker 1: every every episode has like a I think it's the

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Speaker 1: trademark of the show. It's really part of the show.

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Speaker 1: I like it. Yeah, so I actually muted that just now. Um,

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Speaker 1: the Christmas Some Bitch and Christmas Spectacular from Meat Eater

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Speaker 1: is over there at the Meat Eater Podcast. So go

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Speaker 1: download that. You'll get a little taste of one. Ben

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Speaker 1: O'Brien as Santa Claus. So I read, I read a poem,

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Speaker 1: talk some talk, some stuff to the crew. It's happy

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Speaker 1: to take part. So go listen to the Meat Eater

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Speaker 1: Christmas Bitching Spectacular light show. It was great, Phil, It's

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Speaker 1: really well if you if you really want to know

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Speaker 1: who the mind behind it is, it's Phil. I'd say

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Speaker 1: it's it's mostly Karan and then me and then you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but thanks producer Korean, shout out to you. All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: this is a different kind of show than we've done

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Speaker 1: in the past. We talked about this last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 1: but episode ninete is volume one, the best of THC.

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I spent a whole day working

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Speaker 1: on this stuff, going back pension time codes World. Phil

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Speaker 1: here listening to old podcast man and it. It brought

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Speaker 1: a tear to my eye, a couple of times, memories

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Speaker 1: of of conversations, past, ghosts of conversations, topical, topical. Because

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Speaker 1: it's Christmas, and so I think that we'll get right

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Speaker 1: to it. But before we do that, we have to

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Speaker 1: we're winding down. As we said last week, we're winding

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Speaker 1: down on our not so sharp moments, winding down. It's

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Speaker 1: coming to the end. We only have a couple more left.

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Speaker 1: Time for reflection. It's a time to think about all

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Speaker 1: the dumb ship that you've done over the last year,

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Speaker 1: really your entire life. So Phil and I will pause

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Speaker 1: for a moment and let you reflect on the year's past.

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Speaker 1: Feel will put in some sort of sound effect here.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're back. I hope you felt your shame. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so you have been a terrible human. Ten we're

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Speaker 1: at the THHC. We're like to you should acknowledge that

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Speaker 1: and move forward as a better, better human. Um. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of self help podcasts out there. This isn't

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Speaker 1: one of them. This is a self shaming podcast. And

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Speaker 1: I know I know what you're thinking. I'm terrible and

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Speaker 1: then you're probably right. And so in the new year,

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Speaker 1: get it together all right. It was inspirational. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: That was I should have been a motivational speaker, shouldn't I. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not too late, it's not too late. I want

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Speaker 1: to do it, all right. Play the jingle, Phil, not

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Speaker 1: the sharp moment, so you don't have to. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: miss that jingle. When it goes away, it might come back.

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Speaker 1: It'll live on in all of our hearts, in our

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Speaker 1: hearts and minds and the deepest, darkest depths of our synapses. Alright,

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Speaker 1: this is from this is I have a child's mind.

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Speaker 1: And this made me laugh just reading the subject line.

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Speaker 1: In the subject line, this is from Justin Snaveley. The

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Speaker 1: subject line was not so sharp moment. I'm sorry. What

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Speaker 1: was that? Not so sharp moment? Shart? Moment? Shark got it? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Do we needed to find what a shart? I don't believe.

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Speaker 1: So I think we're gonna figure it out here, all right,

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Speaker 1: Justin said, as I write this to you with a

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Speaker 1: humble heart. That is tough to relive this not so

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Speaker 1: sharp moment. This past both season in Colorado, I decided

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Speaker 1: to take on my very first El cont I trudged

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Speaker 1: around the wilderness the day before opener, and during opening

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Speaker 1: day looking for elk sign in the area I had

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Speaker 1: never been. On the night of the opener, I sat

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Speaker 1: by my fire and listened to a few bulls crack

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Speaker 1: off right before I hit the hay. I woke up

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Speaker 1: in the morning bright eyed and bushy tailed, And during

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Speaker 1: my morning coffee I heard a couple of cows off

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Speaker 1: in the meadow below me. I cracked off a bugle,

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Speaker 1: and low and behold, I had a bull return the

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Speaker 1: call about a quarter mile from camp. I figured, why heck,

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Speaker 1: let's go get him. I made my way up the

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Speaker 1: ridge and called until I was roughly a hundred yards

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Speaker 1: away from the bull, but he held fast that would

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Speaker 1: not come an inch closer. I figured I'd let him

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Speaker 1: calm down and mosey on about while I regrouped at

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Speaker 1: my camp. I thought it would chase him after I

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Speaker 1: got my pack all put back together. Well, as you

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Speaker 1: may know, coffee is quite the laxative. It's quite the turn.

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Speaker 1: It was a hunting story and then just went right

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Speaker 1: as you know, as you will. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: I don't drink coffee, but I can assume, yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: would you agree with coffee is quite the laxative. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it can be, especially after a quick little john upper

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Speaker 1: ridge and back. I clasped my chest buckle and thought,

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Speaker 1: today is going to be the day I shoot my

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Speaker 1: first elk. As I began to let loose what I

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Speaker 1: thought to be a frog stopper, it quickly turned into

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Speaker 1: molten hot sludge traveling down by life. Okay, a whole

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Speaker 1: pause there for a second. I've heard the term shirt.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure most people have. Frog stomper is new to me?

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Speaker 1: Is that new to you? Yes? I believe it means

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Speaker 1: that when, like you, you stepped on a frog, and

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Speaker 1: that's the noise it would make. Okay, I could be wrong,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's that makes sense? Does it make sense?

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Speaker 1: All right? We'll go with it. I was quick and

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Speaker 1: deliberate to take my pants and underwear as they had

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Speaker 1: seen their version of a pass through. The dirty pants

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Speaker 1: were saved, However, my last wet wipes used up, used up,

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Speaker 1: and my pride quickly humbled as I said a final

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Speaker 1: goodbye to my underwear and the elk woods for that day.

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Speaker 1: As I said, my undergarments ablaze along with my hopes

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Speaker 1: and dreams. You can see this man just like sadly

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Speaker 1: burning his his underwear. We could do that Hulk music

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Speaker 1: that we do for me in commons. As I hiked

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Speaker 1: through the woods my backup pair of white leggings, I

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Speaker 1: took my walk of shame back to the truck for

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Speaker 1: clean pants. I hope you enjoyed my not so sharp moment.

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Speaker 1: Justin play the jingle field not so sharp moment. Oh boy, well, Justin,

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Speaker 1: this is the most somber, not so sharp moment yet Justin.

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Speaker 1: This is a sad ning. Yeah, this is really I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're by yourself in the woods, burning your shitty underwear.

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Speaker 1: It is Uh, that's a low point for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but hey, listen, we're about bringing people back from the

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Speaker 1: depths terrible shame, but then come back like a phoenix

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Speaker 1: rising from the earlier. You're all terrible, but now I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna tell you can come back, just like Justin's underwear

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Speaker 1: from the depths of the ash rises a free work

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Speaker 1: sharp field sharpener from the folks here at t C.

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Speaker 1: And so thank you work Sharp, and thank you Justin

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Speaker 1: for putting it out there for everyone. All your shame

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Speaker 1: and your just just all your the poop running. Then

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Speaker 1: you're like early In the morning. And I will say

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Speaker 1: that as a non coffee drinker, let's not blame this

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Speaker 1: on coffee, or should we. It was probably a factor,

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Speaker 1: but there's no way to know. It's it's all justin then. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no way to know, so listen. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I want not so short moment to be a

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Speaker 1: thing or not. I think one might be good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm a little scared of what this could turn into.

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Speaker 1: And I don't want to spend my days reading your

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Speaker 1: short stories. So don't you dare send me a short story?

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Speaker 1: No more, don't you dare send that to me? Please?

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Speaker 1: All right, this is, like I said, a different type

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Speaker 1: of show, Phil, This show is the best of I

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Speaker 1: went through all ninety some episodes of this podcast. I

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Speaker 1: listened to every single one of them. Phil, ninety hours. Wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's more each show. So it was more like a

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Speaker 1: dight hours I stay on average. Yeah. I spent at

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Speaker 1: my house alone in my underwear that we're clean and

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Speaker 1: not not on fire, that were that we're not a flame,

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Speaker 1: listening to every conversation I've had. I also feel shame.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's pretty egoistical. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. It

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Speaker 1: was a pretty sad little weekend, but I also felt

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Speaker 1: m heartened by some of the better people we've had

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Speaker 1: on this podcast, and a lot of them you know

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Speaker 1: how early and if if you've listened every episodes podcast,

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Speaker 1: first let me say thank you, because that's quite defeat.

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Speaker 1: When it started, I only really had to draw from

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Speaker 1: I wasn't part of METI eat, and only really had

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Speaker 1: a draw from the people that I knew a right,

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Speaker 1: the people that I knew in my life that I

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Speaker 1: thought had a good story to tell. And so that's

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Speaker 1: really how this this podcast started. It's kind of changed

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Speaker 1: over the years and what I'll call the pre filled days.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, pre Phil, there was a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people that I would call friends, people that have impacted

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Speaker 1: my life, whose stories impacted me, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: share their stories with you. And so that was really

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Speaker 1: the impetus for this podcast in the beginning, and it

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Speaker 1: still is to a large extent. But at some point

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Speaker 1: you're trying to do a weekly show. You've got you

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Speaker 1: can't just interview people you know every week, and so

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Speaker 1: in the pre filled days, pre fill so much like

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Speaker 1: we do, we designate the years A D B. C.

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Speaker 1: You're equating me joining the podcast to Jesus two thousand eighteen,

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Speaker 1: coming to two thousan p P, P b P and

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Speaker 1: p P pre fill. But why baby, wait we'll go okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I was getting post phil and before. That's a

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Speaker 1: better way to do it. B Yeah, okay, this is

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Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, b P, PPP two thousand all right,

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Speaker 1: I think we can post fill. He's cut that all out. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Most people would say that that BP were the with

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Speaker 1: the golden d b P. You as goal nears PP,

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Speaker 1: it's going it's gone way downhill. Uh in the PP years.

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Speaker 1: So I'm cutting. I'm cutting cutting this. Come on, I

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Speaker 1: don't cut this. Uh. Phil has all his power over

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Speaker 1: the show. He can just I don't remember anything I say,

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Speaker 1: so he can cut parts he doesn't like and I

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Speaker 1: totally forget they were even there. So if you're hearing this,

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Speaker 1: it's because of Phil's kindness and wanting to have wanting

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Speaker 1: you to hear this. So this, this this episode, I

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Speaker 1: think is about what I just said, not the p P,

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Speaker 1: P P stuff, but the the stuff about people in

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Speaker 1: my life that have impacted it. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: this is very personal for me. These are you know,

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Speaker 1: exceptional humans that whose story UH invigorated me the first

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Speaker 1: time I heard it. Being around them is inspiring, and

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Speaker 1: so trying to bring that to to all of you

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Speaker 1: in a way that made sense for for the person

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Speaker 1: telling the story and for the person listening. And I

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Speaker 1: think the Hunting Collective very much is about gathering perspectives

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Speaker 1: from all over this country, all over this world, and

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Speaker 1: trying to mash them all together in a better understanding

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Speaker 1: of hunting and why we do it. And so this

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Speaker 1: first best of is very much exactly that. It's very

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Speaker 1: much the ethos of this show and why I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do it in the first place. And so you're

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Speaker 1: gonna hear probably the audio quality won't be as good

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Speaker 1: because is pp b P BP it was bad. You

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Speaker 1: will hear a difference. You'll hear a difference because it

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Speaker 1: is b P, it is pp UM and and these

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Speaker 1: were all done and random places around the country, And

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Speaker 1: so that's what this show is about. This best of

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Speaker 1: is about the people in my life that I feel

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Speaker 1: like they're most have been most impactful, and have the

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Speaker 1: best stories to tell. And so hopefully you enjoy these conversations.

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Speaker 1: And we've chosen or I've chosen three people that I

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Speaker 1: think fit that bill. The first of those three people

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Speaker 1: his name is Wyman Menzer. You know who that is,

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Speaker 1: Phil I do not know. Let me tell you. I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you all about woman. I first met Wyman and

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Speaker 1: Uh on a coyote hunt in a little town called Benjamin, Texas. Benjamin,

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Speaker 1: Texas is in the middle of the big empty is

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Speaker 1: Wyman calls it in northern Texas, just north of Dallas,

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Speaker 1: not too far. It's a big, wide open country. And

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Speaker 1: in this in this interview you will hear uh Whyoman

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Speaker 1: describe it? Wyman. I met Wyman on on a coyote hunt,

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Speaker 1: and I was first struck by a few things about him.

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Speaker 1: Number One, anytime he blows on a call, okyote comes running,

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty much a hundred percent of the time.

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Speaker 1: He is an artist when it comes to hunting and

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Speaker 1: photographing coyotes. He also is a renaissance man in the

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Speaker 1: way that he looks at the world. He has done

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Speaker 1: things like taken old jail house in the town of Benjamin,

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Speaker 1: an old eighteen hundred jail house and turn it into

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Speaker 1: like a cottage. That was featured on the Some Fancy

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Speaker 1: Pants channel about what's that called h G TV. That's it.

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Speaker 1: How did you know of Terrible should work on a

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Speaker 1: lot of shows for h So he was on like

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Speaker 1: HDTV just because he took an old jail house and

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Speaker 1: turned it into his family's home for a while, and

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Speaker 1: it's a beautiful place. He is also a biologist by

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Speaker 1: trade and has been trapping and killing KaiOS for most

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Speaker 1: of his life. He has a book. The first time

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Speaker 1: I met him, he showed me this book that goes

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Speaker 1: back to the seventies of every single kayode he ever killed,

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Speaker 1: where he killed it, who he was with, how much

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Speaker 1: it weighed. He has blood. Uh, he would take his fingerprint,

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Speaker 1: put it in their blood, put it on his book.

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Speaker 1: So he has this treasure trove, this totem of his

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Speaker 1: history with one animal, and his life is really defined

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Speaker 1: by predator hunting and kyot hunting and trapping. As you'll

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Speaker 1: hear in this podcast. I immediately when I first met Wyman,

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Speaker 1: I immediately knew this is a special person, not only

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Speaker 1: because his hunting prowess is out there for everyone to see,

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Speaker 1: but he's got this the depth of soul that you

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Speaker 1: just don't find many places, and you definitely don't find

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Speaker 1: it in the big wide empty of northern Texas and

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Speaker 1: so I was able to do a lot with woman.

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Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time with him over the

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Speaker 1: years and enjoyed every single moment of it. We did

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Speaker 1: a film UM called Chasing Light with the Eddie about

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Speaker 1: Woman about his life, so you could go watch that. UM.

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Speaker 1: We did uh this podcast and a bunch of other

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Speaker 1: stuff with a man who was a writer, a photographer, UM,

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Speaker 1: a friend of many. So I think very highly of

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Speaker 1: this man. So we've cut out a little bit about

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Speaker 1: his life and the early part of his life, which

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Speaker 1: he lived in a dugout on an old ranch I

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Speaker 1: believe called the Pitchfork Ranch near his home. He lived

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Speaker 1: in this dugout, lived alone, trap got all his money

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Speaker 1: from trapping, and it was a pretty transformative time in

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Speaker 1: his life. So as you're listening to this, understand that

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Speaker 1: that what I pulled here is the genesis of this

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Speaker 1: great man's life, and he reflects on it in some

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Speaker 1: beautiful ways. So enjoy wyman men, warm and serbian. How

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Speaker 1: are you, sir? I'm well, thank you. Oh we're in Benjamin, Texas,

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Speaker 1: are we not? Yes, sir, you lived here your entire

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Speaker 1: the entire life Yes, I was raised on a ranch

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Speaker 1: about eleven miles out of Benjamin. Yeah, you don't have

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Speaker 1: to tell your age, but yeah, sixty seven years old.

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Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and be honest. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: pressure you in anything at all. Uh. Well, that's an

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Speaker 1: impressive that's an impressive feat given a lot of times today.

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Speaker 1: You know, guys my age don't stick around their home

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Speaker 1: place very very often. Yeah, you know, I really didn't

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Speaker 1: think that I would once I got out of college.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't went to Texas Tech University. But it came

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Speaker 1: back and circumstances were such that I felt like this

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Speaker 1: would be a good place to headquarter. And it worked

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Speaker 1: out in spades, in spades. Well, I mean, might as

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Speaker 1: well start at the very beginning. You grew up here,

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Speaker 1: uh with a brother and a sister, right right, Um,

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Speaker 1: you grew up on a ranch not far from here,

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Speaker 1: and tell you just tell me about growing up and

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Speaker 1: and you call it the big empty Well we uh

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Speaker 1: the ranch that uh that we were reared on as

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Speaker 1: a twenty seven thousand acre, which is not a big

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Speaker 1: outfit in this part of the country, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: a decent size, definitely good for a couple of boys

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Speaker 1: to be raised on. My dad was a foreman there

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Speaker 1: and he was there for thirty years and uh raised

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Speaker 1: up as a as a cowboy and learned to to

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Speaker 1: work cattle and break horses in the whole deal. And uh,

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Speaker 1: but my main love wash wash was hunting and studying

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Speaker 1: the natural history of various species, and as always going

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Speaker 1: and collecting bird eggs and inspecting birds that I had

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Speaker 1: to shot with a bb gun and and uh a

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Speaker 1: key and them out. And it it led to to

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Speaker 1: what I'm I'm doing today for for for sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And we were talking about this at breakfast this morning,

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Speaker 1: you know, and even and over whiskey last night, about

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Speaker 1: growing up in that environment and what that how that

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Speaker 1: shapes you and what that makes you, the grit that

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Speaker 1: it gives you, the drive and work hard. I mean

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Speaker 1: you were raising a hard work and hard scramble and

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Speaker 1: life this country, you know, it it's pressure, I mean

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Speaker 1: it is it's it's not an easy place to live. Um. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, we find a lot of old house places

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Speaker 1: we found there on the ranch. Um in the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, people really came in here in droves and

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Speaker 1: you know, um farms, you know, cut out a little

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Speaker 1: piece of parcel of end and tried to farm it,

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Speaker 1: and through time the land pretty well, um weeded out

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Speaker 1: to where it's now probably at its carrying capacity. Early

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Speaker 1: on it was it was just you know, overgrazed more

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Speaker 1: or less, I guess you could say. And so even

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Speaker 1: today though, it's hard because you know, it's just mostly

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Speaker 1: big ranch country and uh ranching practices of change. You

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Speaker 1: don't need as many people working on ranches. And so

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Speaker 1: the town of Benjamin itself used to be a population

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Speaker 1: of like six hundred. Now it's like two. But that's

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Speaker 1: basically what it what it should be. And so my

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Speaker 1: dad and mom were both raised in the Depression years,

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Speaker 1: raised hard. My dad was in a large family and

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Speaker 1: that where they parceled out the kids to other families

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Speaker 1: where they could have enough to eat. My mom lived

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Speaker 1: in dugouts and tents during the Depression. She has bad

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Speaker 1: memories about it, but they were resilient people. And they've

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Speaker 1: taught my brother and I, especially my brother and I

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Speaker 1: my sister not so much, but taught us, you know,

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Speaker 1: how to how to be independent and to appreciate doing

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Speaker 1: things for yourself. And I appreciate that very much. And

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Speaker 1: it's and it's uh, it's been good good to me

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Speaker 1: because so much of my life revolves around, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: doing things your own way and trying to figure things

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Speaker 1: out and uh and to make it work and make

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Speaker 1: do Yeah. Yeah, I mean the early part of your

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Speaker 1: story is very much just you know, the life most

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Speaker 1: kids would dream about, right, I mean, a roaming around

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Speaker 1: this country on horseback, roaming at willed your parents to

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Speaker 1: uh did not um uh you know, stay on you constantly,

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Speaker 1: you know where are you going. It was just like

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Speaker 1: watch for rattlesnakes. That that was the warning when we

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Speaker 1: were kids. When you go outside, y'all, watch for rattlesnakes.

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Speaker 1: And if you got a half a mile from the

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Speaker 1: house with your baby gut or you're twenty two and

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Speaker 1: mothers missed you, will she'd host jard holler and you

390
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Speaker 1: could hear a mile away. She had a shrill voice,

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Speaker 1: and you knew it was time to come back home.

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Speaker 1: But they just didn't keep a rain tight rain on you.

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Speaker 1: You were allowed to go out and be yourself and

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Speaker 1: explore and be creative and in doing uh fighting things

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Speaker 1: to do. And it was it was it was a

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Speaker 1: good thing. It's a good life. Well, I mean you

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Speaker 1: got a good power of description. I mean describe for

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Speaker 1: people listening that I've never been to this country. Of course,

399
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Speaker 1: this is north you call north central Texas, and I

400
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: would say, um, what this country looks like. I mean

401
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: the think, the land, the animals, just the feeling of

402
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: being here. Well, Uh, first off, weatherwise, it's we have

403
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Speaker 1: some fairly cool cold winters, very hot summers, so it's

404
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: it's kind of one extreme to the other. Um. It

405
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Speaker 1: we have a thousands of acres what they call all

406
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Speaker 1: the bad lands and local bad lands, Knox County bad lands,

407
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Speaker 1: and uh, it's it's just the old red beds, ancient

408
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: red beds, uh apparently old river beds because you'll find uh, gravel,

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Speaker 1: layers of gravel, and the edges of the cliffs with

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Speaker 1: a lot of of mammoth bones. I've actually had paleontologies

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Speaker 1: come out and I chow them these skeletons and they say, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's mammal, that's a's camel as the ancient horse bones.

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Speaker 1: And then you have your your deep soil sites where

414
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Speaker 1: there's a lot of mesquite. The bad lands pretty well

415
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: um is uh um dominated by by juniper. And then

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Speaker 1: you're you're deep soil size from a squite and to

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Speaker 1: boast the grass buffalo grass. We have whitetailed deer, a

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Speaker 1: lot of wild of wild farrell hogs, a lot of

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Speaker 1: coats and um and quite a few bobcats. We don't

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Speaker 1: have any foxes to speak of. They live more or

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Speaker 1: less in the in town where they're where they're protected

422
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Speaker 1: from codes. Because coyotes even like hot dogs, they hang

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Speaker 1: out at the bars, so they they hang out in

424
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: people's garages up in the attics because if they get

425
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: out of town, the coats eat them. And because we

426
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: have in the wintertime this is a central flyway, so

427
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: we have a good, uh, a good population of snow

428
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: geese and the and the Canadians come through. Not a

429
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 1: lot of ducks. Back in the sixties, you know, I've

430
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:39,719
Speaker 1: seen a transition in the in the waterfowl, the makeup

431
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: of the water waterfowl population. In the sixties it was

432
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: just the opposite. We had a lot of crane sandhill

433
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: cranes that stayed here through the winter, tremendous almost unimaginable

434
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: numbers of green heads, canvasbacks, and a few uh Canadian geese.

435
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: And now it's just reversed. We have a few cranes

436
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: come in early along with your your teal and and

437
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: and those little species, and then the cranes move on

438
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: up to the Panhandle, right, and then the ducks they

439
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: just we just don't have the duck numbers we did

440
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: in the sixties. And I don't understand why, because we've

441
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: got as much or more water. But it may have

442
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: they switched. They've switched their flyaway there. Well, I mean

443
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: that's a good description of this place, and I mean

444
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: it's it's shaped you in a lot of ways. It

445
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: has um you know, like I say, growing up on

446
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: the ranch and and being raised as as an independent person.

447
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: And of course when I went to Texas Tech, I

448
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: studied wildlife biology and then whenever I laughed, instead of

449
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: getting a job, I became a coon hunter, professional kyban

450
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: hunter and living out on a pitchfork ranch and a

451
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: half dugout. And there's where you really became independent, because

452
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: you know, you go into town once week to get

453
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: groceries and um, and basically you were your own man.

454
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: I mean, there was there was nobody to ask questions to,

455
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: nobody to talk to to exchange ideas with. It was

456
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: just you in the land. Yeah, I want to go

457
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: through that specifically specific But I don't know if you've

458
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: ever talked about other than the time you told me

459
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: the first time you saw a hippie on the Texas

460
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: the first time you encountered a hippie who was having

461
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: a deep conversation with some fire and it was some

462
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: red ants, some harvest dance, so he was probably having

463
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: a good talk with him, apparently. So they're circumstances exactly. Um,

464
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: but you went to Texas Tech and wildlife biology was

465
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: the choice of trade. Was that just because the intense

466
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 1: connection you had to this place and the animals, all

467
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: those things, that's what drove you to that. And then

468
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: and the study of that kind of reaffirmed right. And

469
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: I knew that. I knew there were no job opportunities.

470
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: I was aware of that at the time, and but

471
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: I was determined to get a degree in wildlife apology

472
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: while back then they called it wildlife management. And um

473
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: but uh uh, you know, I mean I could have

474
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: been a cowboy heaven forbid. I mean, I respect, I

475
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: love cowboys. I love that life way. I still um

476
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: across paths with work with them. In some of my

477
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: photo shoots. I can speak their language. It's just that

478
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: I've smelled enough horse flat horse sweat my life. It's

479
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: just that I really loved working with with wild creatures.

480
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: That and I actually aspired at one time to be

481
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: a paleontologist and found out that it took too much math.

482
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: And so I'm not a mathematician. That I I still

483
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: have a great interest in paleontology. Yeah, well that so

484
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: you graduate from college, you go through the process there,

485
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: and you decide pretty much immediately right to to come

486
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: back come a professional hunter. You lived in a in

487
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: a It was a there's a no half dugout. It

488
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: was built in nineteen forty eight when the Pitchfork bought

489
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: that portion of the ranch from the Matador. And I

490
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: actually I actually knew uh the man who helped build

491
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: it in nineteen forty eight, and and so um uh

492
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: it was um just a little one room shack with

493
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: a fireplace in the end, and uh partially you know,

494
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: the windows up was out of the ground and the

495
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: windows down was below ground. And it was in the

496
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: middle of a hundred and sixty eight thousand ranch, a

497
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: Pacer ranch, And of course I had surrounding ranches that

498
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: I hunted on also, uh you had the bags fifty

499
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: thousand acres, and you had uh an old fellow name

500
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: of Hubert Young, and he had ten thousand acres, and

501
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: then you had the Springer. It was forty thousand and

502
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: another ten thousand acre ranch. And that was before commercial hunting.

503
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: I was the only guy out there. I never heard

504
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: a rifle shot. I never saw another person hunting. The

505
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: years that I spent three winners that I spent, actually

506
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: five winners. I spent three winners living in the dugout,

507
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: and then two other winners hunting out there still working

508
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: out of Benjamin. I never saw anybody else having And

509
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: it was it was like you stepped back into the

510
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds in nineteenth century. Yeah, you're living in You're

511
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: living in a one room dugout. Very much that was

512
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: very much akin to when it was built in the forties, right,

513
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: I'm seeing pictures. I mean it is. It was literally

514
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: a one room hole in the in the side of

515
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: the hill and you're you get up every morning, you're

516
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: running traplines, weren't you and just talked about the daily life.

517
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: Because I think we've talked a lot about this in

518
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: this visit when we've visited a bunch of times, but

519
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: in this particularly visit a lot about what how soft

520
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: our life is right now? Yeah? You know, my like

521
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: how how I'm trying to escape the softest of life

522
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: by going out and hunting. You came out of college

523
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: and plunged into the headlong into the hardest, hardest life

524
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: imaginable it was, you know. Of course I didn't. I

525
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: didn't going to a dog pool, slid or anything like that.

526
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: I had my forward drive pick up. But every morning

527
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: was it was a ritual, every every day I took

528
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: out when I when I moved in, I took five

529
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: thousand rounds twenty ammunition and a couple of hundred rounds

530
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: a high powered rifle to shoot my cos with my

531
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: twenty two I used to dispatch animals and trapped in practice,

532
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: and of course my my food stuff. And then in

533
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: the mornings, I would get get up before daylight, eat breakfast,

534
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: fixed my lunch, same lunch every day, a summer saucege sandwich,

535
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: canteena water, and a peanut peanut patty candy bar that

536
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: I would not eat a piece of it until I

537
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: caught an animal. When I called a code, I would

538
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: break a piece off to reward myself, and all day

539
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: I went along the trap line like fifty sixty miles

540
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: and then when I got back to cabin in the evening,

541
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: I skinned stretched and if I had enough time, I

542
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: would practice shooting with my Winchester and mountain and uh

543
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: then I'd cut for firewood, draw my water for that

544
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: night for either a bath only took one bath a week,

545
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: or washing dishes, and then I would finish dinner, wash

546
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: the dishes right in my journal, sit in front of

547
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: the fire, and then go to bed. Every night, seven

548
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: days a week, thirty days a month. All went along.

549
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: That's what that was alive, and it was great. I

550
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: loved it. I loved it. First winter was fabulous. Second

551
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: winter got at tougher. Third winner was real tough because

552
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: I've become a little bit more uh social, and living

553
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: down there, you were pretty restricted. I mean you're a

554
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: young man at this point, right, you know. I needed

555
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: to see somebody. Yeah, And so every once in a

556
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 1: while cowboy would come by and I'd say hi to him,

557
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: be able to talk to him. But other than that,

558
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: I'd go to a day or two days without saying anything.

559
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: And that that kind of got to you after a while. Yeah,

560
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: I imagine it would. So you're killing coyotes, bobcats. You're

561
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: you're earning money right from from the pelts, right, so

562
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: you were how many coyotes, uh, among how many kids

563
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: the season? And how many bobcats? Well, how much money

564
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: would you make? Well, you know we did our coach

565
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: here in Texas. Weren't worth that much. You're fifteen bucks piece.

566
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: But I needed to make four. I need to catch

567
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: four animal units today. And I considered an animal unit

568
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: a coyote bobcat was worth two animal units of fox

569
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: three order of the unit. And uh, with four animal

570
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: units today, I could make my pickup payment, my college

571
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 1: loan payment, and buy groceries and have some spending money.

572
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 1: And so my goal was to get four animal units today.

573
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: And I did a lot of people nowadays say I'm

574
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: a professional hunter. That is what you were. It was

575
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: professionally that was hunting and trapping, right, Yeah, I mean

576
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: what did? I ask many questions about that time in

577
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: your life, But one of I always thought was like,

578
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: what are your main takeaways? Because well, I'll tell you.

579
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: You know, uh, you know, with age, you you know,

580
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: you you become mellowed out, you don't hunt as much.

581
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: But I can look back on those years and realize

582
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: that hunting at that level it is people can't fathom

583
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: being that involved in hunting today, uh, back in the

584
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred year. But you become so you become so

585
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: involved solved in the natural history of the species that

586
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: you were after every I mean every track. You know,

587
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: you studied the tracks, You studied the what you thought

588
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: was the time of day or night the tracts were made.

589
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: You watched weather patterns. Uh, you anticipated animal movements in

590
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: accordance to weather patterns. Uh. You learned that cos travel

591
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: in certain areas in the daytime versus night time. And

592
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: your average person today who goes out and quote hunts,

593
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: has no idea of that level of understanding of the

594
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: natural history of animals that you have to that you

595
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: have to have in order to be a professional hunter.

596
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: And and it's I wouldn't trade for those years. Well

597
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: not only did or your professional hunter, but you were

598
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: as a biologist, logging your kills the blood exactly I

599
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: took all. I was very much a note taker, and

600
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: and I would document each animal, uh, you know, at

601
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: the distance that I shot it. Or the trap I

602
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: caught it in, what foot I caught it on? And

603
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: um and I still have all those that information today

604
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: from all all the way back in the journals. Now

605
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: I've I've with a rifle. I've shot one thousand, seven

606
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty with a rifle alone, and I was

607
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: not counting traps. It was another hundred or sold with traps,

608
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: eight hundred and seventy seven bomb cats and so you know,

609
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: and and it's something and it's not something that I'm

610
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: necessarily proud of. It is just that was a way

611
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: of life. Yeah, you know. And and as like I said,

612
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: as an older person, I don't hunt like I used to.

613
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: I have a softer heart than I used to have.

614
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: That's always the most interesting storyline about you know, when

615
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: I think about your life, which is this tremendous tapestry

616
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: of you know, something that's to be admired really and

617
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: in all its stages. But when you're when you're back

618
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: there and you're killing these kayaks for a living, you

619
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: know a lot of people nowadays might say, well, what

620
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: a terrible thing. You're going out there and just taking

621
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 1: life and wholesale and make money and you're selling furs,

622
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: and you know, in the modern day that might be

623
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: looked at as as a negative to the landscape. But

624
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: describe in that place in time, you know how you

625
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: thought about the animal, you respect for it. I mean,

626
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: I know just from knowing you that that's the case

627
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: I did have and I still do. I mean, I'll

628
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: always have great respect for the cord And I think

629
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: they're very intelligent u uh an animal that uh they

630
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: can make those make the changes with man, whereas the

631
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: wolf could not, and they were pretty well exterminated from Texas.

632
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: But the couches uh very adaptive and very sharp, and

633
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: so early on the one of the reasons that I

634
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: started taking no it was that I just wanted to

635
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: learn more about them. And so the earliest notes came

636
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: whenever I was in uh like a sophomore at TAG

637
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: and I wanted to become a better code hunter, and

638
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: so I thought, well, I'm going to have to understand

639
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: the feeding habits of code. So I conducted a full

640
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: year of research on my own by collecting stomach samples,

641
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: fecal samples, and uh documenting the areas um separating them

642
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: by vegetation, topographical geogy, geological features, and then I received

643
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: a grant to study another year and so, um, you know,

644
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: all of this, this note taking has been a very

645
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: positive thing because to this day, I'll sit down, I'll

646
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: get bored some danger sitting with all those notes and

647
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: go through them just to remember and and uh and

648
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: I'll see things that I've forgotten, you know, in in

649
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: thirty years since I've seen and it's uh, he just

650
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: continues to be a learning process even after all these years.

651
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't when you were a professional hunter back

652
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: in those days. You're living in a dugout, do you

653
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: remember having Do you have any of that? Do you

654
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 1: sit here now and your grandfather and time has passed,

655
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: you look back and have any remorse for for the

656
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: animals you killed? Yes, yes I do. I do. I

657
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: I can recall some instances, especially one one day that

658
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: that touched my heart into this day, and that has

659
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: been forty four years ago to this day still tugged

660
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: at my heart. And um, and it was the kids

661
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: I've caught in a trap and uh and I don't

662
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: know that that kyd he just he just sat there

663
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 1: and just and just looked at me. I didn't try

664
00:39:52,880 --> 00:40:00,959
Speaker 1: to fight. And then whenever I I dispatched it. There

665
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: there was there was a look of helplessness that it

666
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 1: knew it was going down. And and I sat down

667
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: in my pickup and cried. After all those all those

668
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: animals had taken, that particular animal made me sit down

669
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: in my pickup and cry. And to this day I

670
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: still think about it. It tugs at my heart. And

671
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: another one in particular, is one of the first really

672
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: neat shot photographs i'd take him because at that time

673
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 1: I was working on my photography. I remember I called

674
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: him in the J two pasture on the pitch for

675
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: a real rough country, just savagely rough country. And it

676
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: was at the dead end of an old bulldozed road

677
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: and I caught this big mail code and I mean

678
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: he stood up and fought me like a lion. I

679
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: mean I got out of the pick up and he

680
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: was snarling. He was caught up in a number four

681
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: new house trap, no way of getting out. And I

682
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: had the greatest respect for that animal. And I pulled

683
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: a camera out and took a photograph of him, and

684
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: I mean, he's got his teeth bared and he's just saying,

685
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: you know, I know, this is it bringing home? And

686
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: and I still think of that that animal and that

687
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 1: that that bravery that he showed in the face of death.

688
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: That picture was selected by Texas Monthly as one of

689
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: their greatest pictures of twenty five years that they had

690
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: published that magazine. Wow. Yeah, I mean that that's a

691
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: great I find myself. I'm not I got a lot

692
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: of years to live, hopefully a lot of years to hunt.

693
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: But I find myself examining those those that relationship with

694
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: the animals that you kill me because you said, you

695
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: kill thousands upon thousands of these animals, but it doesn't

696
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: mean that you don't have an emotional connection to him. Uh. Today,

697
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: And and then, like I said, it was just a

698
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 1: way of life. Is a way of Life's what you did.

699
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: It was a way of life and and uh and

700
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: I also I was enjoying just being a part of

701
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: the land. You know, every day, the sunsets, the sun rises,

702
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: the weather changes, all of those things still have an

703
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: impact on me today. I still refer back to those

704
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: years and and what I learned in in the animal movements,

705
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: animal patterns, Like I can say, like, for instance, a

706
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: couple of days ago, I saw a rattlesnake crawling. Anytime

707
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: that I start seeing an immediate, uh, an increase in

708
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: animal movement. When I'm walking in the mornings, You'll start

709
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: seeing various creatures. Tracks suddenly appear, and I'll tell slender

710
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: my wife, we got weather coming. And I learned that

711
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: from those years as a professional hunter, because I studied,

712
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: I lived and breathed those habits, those weather changes and

713
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: how they affected animals behavior and uh, and it's just

714
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: and it still serves me today. Yeah, that's amazing. You

715
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: don't have to become an animal yourself. You're out there, yeah,

716
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: not not speaking for some days, and I'm sure I

717
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: can feel like that. You're getting your own head. Yeah,

718
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: you're getting your own head big time. You better like yourself,

719
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: so all I can say you better like, Yeah, you

720
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: better enjoy just you know, appreciate you being you because

721
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna learn yourself. Did you I mean, when you

722
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: were doing that, did you think, Hey, look, four years

723
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: from now, I'm gonna look back and there's gonna be

724
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: the golden years. Do you think, Man, this is I'm

725
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: a crazy son picture for doing this. I mean, was

726
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: there a self realization at any point during this? Now

727
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: I realized that the days would end? And uh, and

728
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: I remember drawing on the wall and it's been covered

729
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: up since then. It was the last few days of

730
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: that first winter, that first winner was the golden winter.

731
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: That was the best because I've been seemingly all my

732
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: life in school. As most guys that go to college realized,

733
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 1: you go from the well in my day's first grade

734
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: to college and there's no break. And he's like, I've

735
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: been going to school forever, and I was sick of it.

736
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: And man, going out and being on your own and

737
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: of course immersing yourself in the land with a rifle.

738
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: I always love to hunt. Wasn't that bigger fisherman, but

739
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: I love to hunt and uh and I love just big,

740
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: wide open country with with lots of elbow room. And

741
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: I realized something told me that first winter, at the

742
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: end that my days were limited. This freedom would some

743
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: day in this this level of freedom. I mean, I'm

744
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: free and happy today, I'm doing what I wanna do.

745
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: But back then, man, it was it was really indescribable.

746
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: And I drew on the door, on the closet door,

747
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 1: and that had a little tiny closet in the corner,

748
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: and that that dugout a dug out, and I drew

749
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 1: a cowd in a trap, and in the distance were

750
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 1: these two prominent hills called Double Mountains. They've been They've

751
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: been mentioned in in uh Ronald Mackenzie's books on his

752
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: fight with the Indians commands in eighteen seventies. They've been

753
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: landmarked for probably ten thousand years. But I could see

754
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: him in the distance from my trap line, and I

755
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: drew those heels, and I drew this code in a

756
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: trap and drag marks leading up to where it caught,

757
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: being caught up and couldn't go any further. And I

758
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: wrote beneath it, uh, something to the effect of to

759
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: this end, Let's see what was it? Uh? I too,

760
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: I too shall to realize this end, meaning that this

761
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: grand life of freedom will someday be over. And uh

762
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: it got painted over a few years ago, and it

763
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: just makes me sick. I'm thinking about going back out

764
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 1: there and trying to redraw. Yeah. Did you ever get

765
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: a photo of it? Or just I did not know?

766
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: I did not? Oh? Yeah, I mean that too. It

767
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: was to this end, I too shall pass, To this end,

768
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: I too shall pass. And it was a code in

769
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: a trap, and knowing that the end was near, and

770
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: seeing that great land or those heels in the distance,

771
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: and knowing the freedom and it would be over. And

772
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: that's the way I felt at the end of that

773
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: first winter, and it was true. I've never have never

774
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: been able to feel that kind of magic again. I've

775
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: had great life, wonderful life of of traveling and seeing

776
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: the land and going on ranches where nobody else hardly

777
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: ever goes, but with a camera in hand. But there's

778
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: always that restriction now that I didn't have it back then.

779
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: I was young, totally completely healthy, lots of ammunition and

780
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: and more land than I knew what to do with.

781
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: And I've never known that sense. And of course now

782
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: with commercial hunting taking over, that land doesn't exist anymore.

783
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: It's gone. I can still go to that cabin and

784
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm welcome to the rancher says, hey, go out there

785
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: and do whatever you wanna do. You know you're part

786
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: of this ranch as well. You think you're part of

787
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: the history. But all that country's lease. And so I

788
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: go down there and I work on the cabin. I'll

789
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: pop open a beer, eat some deer sausage, sat down

790
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: on the porch and remember, and then I'll leave. Yeah,

791
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: I mean that isn't every person in some way chasing

792
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: that sense of freedom? Like not everybody knows exactly how

793
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: they're gonna get to it. Believe me, I whenever I

794
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: give presentations and I talk about I have one presentation

795
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: that I give quite often, and it's called the Evolution

796
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: of a Texas Photographer, And and I give that part

797
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: of my life and almost without failed, people come up

798
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 1: to me, older people especially, and say, how I wish

799
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: I would have taken the opportunity to do that, because

800
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: there's only a small window of time. If I give

801
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: presentations to say to a college class, I will, I

802
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: will every time on the time, I will say, when

803
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: you finish college, you have this small wind o opportunity

804
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: to do exactly what you want to do. And I said,

805
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: when you let that window pass, it's over your stab.

806
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: You become that's in that established line of life, you know,

807
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: and that so called rut, and it's hard to turn back.

808
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: I said, So, if you have any kind of a

809
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: a dream, you know, some heartfelt message that you want

810
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: to go try out for a year, do it. Because

811
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: it is sad to talk to those people who will

812
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: will visit with me and say I had that opportunity,

813
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: and I didn't take it. Yeah, but I can go

814
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 1: if I pass tomorrow. I have no regrets. I guess

815
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: I grew up on an older row. All right. That

816
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: was Wyman Menzer. Thanks to him, thanks to his wife Selenda,

817
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 1: thanks to their kids for letting me come and bother them,

818
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: and Benjamin and it's home. Uh. I love that guy.

819
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: So you go back and listen to that podcast with

820
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: Wyman and here the rest of it. There's a whole

821
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: lot of good stories you didn't get out of that bit.

822
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: So go find that podcast, download it and listen to it.

823
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: Even if you already have. It's worth the time. We're

824
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: gonna move on to someone else in my life that Phil,

825
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:15,919
Speaker 1: you might not be aware of. Did you ever hear

826
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: the Doucheon Smantana podcast, mother Lord? So well, let me

827
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: tell you a little bit Phil about Ducheon when you

828
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: when you break into this this clip that we've cut

829
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: for this podcast with Dushantana, we're gonna be in his

830
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: house here in on the outskirts of Bozeman, right on

831
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: the Gallatin River, and we we it was actually like

832
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: maybe a year or so ago that we recorded this,

833
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: and du Sean likes to sit by the fire. It

834
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: doesn't really, I don't eve think it has a TV

835
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: in his house. He likes to sit by the fire,

836
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: drinking plum brandy, telling stories. Outside of his house is

837
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: a is a big building that holds all his homing pigeons.

838
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: He raced, is them, these homing pigeons, And so to

839
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: paint the picture, we're sitting there drinking plum brandy by

840
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: the fire in the home that he helped build himself

841
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: when he moved here. You'll hear all that story. And

842
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: then homing pigeons are just flying around and he just

843
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: like watches them as they go and there, and he's

844
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: watching every little part of how they fly and which

845
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: ones and first, and which one is the fastest. And

846
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: that's that's the scene of this podcast. But du Sean,

847
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: as you'll hear, ah, immigrated here from communist Czechoslovakia. And

848
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: his story of how the most impactful thing about this,

849
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: I think to me was how du Sean grew up

850
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: hunting in a in a very foreign place to me

851
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: or or probably all of you listening, how they looked

852
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: at hunting in Czechoslovakia in his in his youth, and

853
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: how he brought those principles over to America. Here's the

854
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: guy who dreamed of Montana, not even knowing what it

855
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: was like, heard stories, heard crazy stories of what a

856
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: Mary might be like as a child, and for some

857
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 1: reason dream to Montana. And as far away as Montana

858
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: was from his tangible and intangible life, he found his

859
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: way here just through pure want and grit and it

860
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: made his way to Montana and has built quite the

861
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: life here and it's quite the photographer. So I happenstance.

862
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: These first two folks in this podcast are photographers, um,

863
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: but but du Sean has a lot to say not

864
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: only about raising kids but about living life and his story.

865
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: So let that inform you. And as we moved through

866
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 1: this podcast, you'll know that you're you're getting to hear

867
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: the genesis of Wyoman Menser and now the genesis of

868
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: this man, Dushan's matana Um And both of those they

869
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: both became renowned outdoor photographers and they can't they couldn't

870
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: have come from more different backgrounds, and so I think

871
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: it's really cool to hear that from Dushan. And so

872
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: you're excited Phil for this one. Yeah, this guy sounds

873
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: like a most interesting man in the world, and I

874
00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: gotta just take you over to see him here. After

875
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: we're done, you would will have some plum brandy. It

876
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: sounds great to rip it out, uh, du Sean is

877
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: is an amazing human being. Not only are you hearing

878
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 1: his voice, you just hear it in his voice, the

879
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 1: way he speaks his sensibilities. It's all a bear. And

880
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: this clip from our podcast with two Shan Santana enjoy.

881
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on an alder road. Sean,

882
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: how are you, sir? Yes, how are you? I'm very well.

883
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: I'm drinking a little bit of mint tea with a

884
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: spike of plum brandy on. It's not actually it's it's

885
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: not that chilly but Montana day, is it? No, it's beautiful,

886
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: blue sky sunshine. Uh, sleep over, it's time. It's beautiful.

887
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: And and for folks that like I always try to

888
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: start these podcasts, obviously, people can't see where we are.

889
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,879
Speaker 1: Can you give your best description of where where we're

890
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: sitting right now? And and really just I guess you're

891
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: homestead here and well we are in bows man Um

892
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: in my house have a small farm by Gullaton River. Uh.

893
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: Raise different kind of animals for us have sheep and

894
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: pigs and chickens and ducks and turkeys and uh, homing pigeons.

895
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: Homing pigeons. Yeah, we're gonna talk about that a lot.

896
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: And just just to heaven. You know, I love Montana,

897
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: I love the name. I love everything about it. So

898
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: I'm glad you get to move here. You're gonna experience that. Yeah,

899
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: I'll be right. Uh, not too far, I said. It's

900
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: like a two minute commute up up the road and

901
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 1: around the corner, and five minutes across the river. Five

902
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: minutes across the river, and we're sipping tea and brandy

903
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: by the fire at your place. They do your wife, Lurka,

904
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 1: and yourself? Did you guys, you guys put a lot

905
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 1: of this house together? We did? You know, we tried

906
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: to research um. When you travel, you see different things

907
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: around the world, and you see how people build differently.

908
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: Have they designed different homes or structures to live? And

909
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: once I came and sit down with the architect, you

910
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: kind of tell him we'll be one. We really like

911
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 1: to read in the heat and the concrete floor, but

912
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: like insuaded house, so you don't wish your energy heating it. Um,

913
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: And we like the simplicity modern you know, the concrete

914
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: floor are awesome for cleaning. And we knew we're going

915
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: to have a kids, so um, somehow you know, figure

916
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: out how not to let them just destroy the house.

917
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: So you have that kin in mind. If I would

918
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: do that, I would definitely not put any kitchen cabinets,

919
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of hay bales and drain in the middle,

920
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: and I think that will do. But you just got

921
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: new house and kids, so you'll see how much damage

922
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: he'll do. That's right. And I and my wife and

923
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: I discussed that. She's like, well, we could get the

924
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 1: nice carpet, that we could get the nice carpet, but

925
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: every nice thing we get has the ability to be

926
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: made less so by our little dude. Although he's pretty

927
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 1: he's pretty low low maintenance but still but it's nice

928
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: to have a house, you know, nice to own some land.

929
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: Um and another tink or concept of our house. Who

930
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: has to make not to pick our houses square feet

931
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 1: perfect for two kids and couple and no maintenance. So

932
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: if you put meler roof, and if you put stacko

933
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: and plaster and inside, you know there's not much maintenance,

934
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: so you don't want to and if you choose good

935
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,439
Speaker 1: windows so you don't have to repay them, Um, then

936
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,439
Speaker 1: you just you know, houses never done, but you try

937
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: to minimize all the extra expenses down the road. Yeah,

938
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: and you have quite the homestead here. I mean it

939
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: feels like, I don't know how most of describe it.

940
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: It's like a farmat where you have. I mean you're

941
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: right here on the Galton River, stricting beautiful and farm

942
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: animals around and and you guys are square with plumb

943
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: randy and a nice fire here and it's it's a

944
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: beautiful view. Yeah, life is good on a farm. R

945
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: I you know, I would love to get even more land,

946
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: but there is not much here available. But I think

947
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: they have a little farm. It's a security for me.

948
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 1: You know, I grew up in a farm, and I

949
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: grew up in a small village where the animals kind

950
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: of take care of you so um, and you can

951
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: get the woods, so you kind of eliminate the thinking

952
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: that food comes from grocery store and the heat comes

953
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: from furnace. Yeah, you have to chop the heat. Chop

954
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: the chop the heat, and you raise your animals and

955
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: you butcher them and you eat them and that's more

956
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: security to meat than have several thousand dollars in the bank.

957
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: You know, my house is surround a bit firewood, and

958
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: freezers are full of meat. Bring it, bring it? Yeah,

959
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: you have so you have chickens and goats. Here what

960
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: else we have? Sheep clinic sheep. And I got that

961
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: idea from traveling to Argentine in the last twenty years

962
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 1: or so, and then low how they cooked it what

963
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:09,320
Speaker 1: they call asada lamb asade over the fire and after

964
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: I think a couple of dinners in the US, you know,

965
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 1: I noticed that the lamb was the most expensive meat.

966
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: And then suddenly, just click six years he goes like, well,

967
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: why can I have my own lamb sheep and and

968
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: raise and he and I talked to my wife, did

969
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: research me find the Icelandic sheep, and they are low

970
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: and maintenance, they're very hearty, they don't need any structures,

971
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: and they're very yummy. So it's a nice combination with

972
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: the hunting. You know, when when you get the elk

973
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: and lopoor deer, there's not much grease there, but with

974
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: the antelope, I mean with the lamb, you just have

975
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: extra fats and grease and fat. Yes, we came over

976
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: here a month or so, maybe even longer ago, and

977
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: had you did the assada for us over the fire

978
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: and it was unbelievable. Tell folks well, and you gave

979
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: me a lot of brandy then too, so I could

980
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: have been I could help out. I don't know, I

981
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: don't know. More you drink better, more tests, tell people

982
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: about your your strategy for making this out, and like

983
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: you know where you learned in your influences from Argentina

984
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: and you know and U I know that as you

985
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: get older you try to I think you get more

986
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: into what I call homie. You just get into cooking,

987
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: you get into gardening, You get into little skills and

988
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: hobbies did you always want to do but never had time?

989
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: Um those as it could be challenges, you know. You

990
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: you get into raising sheep and you try to figure

991
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: out how to hey so then you get in the

992
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,959
Speaker 1: tractor and you try to cut and bail. So it's

993
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: U still very entertained, you know, with these with all

994
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: these activities, and they love it because it's completely distract

995
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 1: me from from the photography. I don't have to think

996
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: of oh framings, and you know all the outtors you

997
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: have when you're taking photos, I completely forget about them,

998
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, I always I'm a full time farmer and

999
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: part time photographer. You've crafted quite quite the job title

1000
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: in living here. Um, you know you're not listening with

1001
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: a lot of we A lot of people glorify living

1002
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: off the land or you know, just a lifestyle of

1003
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: of living off what's around you. And you have have

1004
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: that here and well specifically around the sheep. How do

1005
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: you treat them? And you raise them? You know, when

1006
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: do you harvest one? Like, how do you how do

1007
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: you treat that with your family? So the lambs are

1008
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: usually born middle of May, beginning of May, and we

1009
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: have running around and it's kind of cute to see

1010
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: kids going in there and lifting those animals and looking

1011
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: at them and put them back and try to catch

1012
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: them again. And we graze them in out of land

1013
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: and our neighbor's land to be make small padducts of

1014
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: two three acres and once a week we'll move them.

1015
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: So we rotated and nice thing being in the river

1016
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: bottom you have so much submoisture at the grass grow

1017
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: nicely and by the time you finish one and you

1018
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: can start another one and when it comes September and October.

1019
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: You know this sheep, they are wild, they're from Iceland

1020
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: and they they haven't been improved by British scientists to

1021
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: gain weight and lose some matter trade. So they eat bark.

1022
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: They eat um leaves, so we don't have to deep

1023
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 1: warm them since we have it just a t thirty

1024
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: of them. And when October comes, and of October, then

1025
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: we slaughter the lambs. We keep the replacement cheap. Then

1026
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: we slaughter maybe some old sheep that we don't they're

1027
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: not they're getting old. And you know, we use some

1028
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: of that meat. And I would use lots of other

1029
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: parts of those animals for my hunting dogs, for the

1030
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 1: bird dogs. Um, you know, I feed them the lungs, liver, heart,

1031
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: even stomach the tribe and opened the stomach and empty

1032
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: the green and cut it up. And that's two three meals.

1033
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: Eat stomach for the dogs with all the enzymes and

1034
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: minerals and nutritions. Now your kids take you have two children, Um,

1035
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 1: do they take part in the entire process with you?

1036
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: They help, you know, they watch, they help eat. They

1037
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 1: still don't know that they're eating liver. You know, they

1038
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: like liver with onions, that's actually traditional or big tradition

1039
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: in Europe where as soon as you harvest any animal

1040
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: and you have access to fire, you chop onions and

1041
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 1: you eat the you know, the red deer liver or

1042
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: road deer liver. Um. So it's you know, they help

1043
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: and they see that night. I don't know if they're

1044
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: gonna pursue that kind of lifestyle be here, but options

1045
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: are there for them. You know they will remember. But um,

1046
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: I am going exactly back as I grow up. I

1047
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: mean I see that that. You know, I want to

1048
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: take care of myself. I want to take care of

1049
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: the firewood. I want to grow our own potatoes and carrots.

1050
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: I want to have my own honey. It's um, you know,

1051
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: thirty years ago I would I would not think that

1052
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: I would have that because it was so distant. But yeah,

1053
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 1: well it seems it seems to call them you a

1054
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 1: bit those things. Yeah, I think the influence and the childhood,

1055
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: how do you grow up and where you grew up,

1056
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: it just influenced you. And then later on do you

1057
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: you seek that and it's you know, it's up to

1058
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: you how deep you're gonna go over that? Yeah, I

1059
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: mean you're you know and you're professional life. You're a

1060
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: photographer for many brands, of course Cabela's being a big one. Um,

1061
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: how do you balance those two things? I mean to

1062
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: travel And we were just talking before we hit record

1063
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: about your traveling and not being around Montana as much

1064
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: as you'd like to be. And but but but you

1065
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: need to travel the world and knowing a lot of

1066
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: places and allowing that to inform how you live here

1067
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: in Montana. Yeah. So I've been fortunate and last twenty

1068
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: five years I did get to travel quite a bad

1069
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: around around the world. But it's nice too, always nice

1070
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: to come home. Um, you know, you've got to do

1071
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: something for a living. So I you know, I don't

1072
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: think I have a bad gig. I mean, I think

1073
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: it's wonderful to just take photos and meet new people

1074
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: and interact, learn about different languages, cultures, meet people who

1075
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: are in all kind of professions and hear their stories. Um,

1076
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 1: talk to hunting GUIDs in South Africa or Australia or

1077
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: Germany and just see what's their lives about, how their

1078
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: backgrounds look like, how did they shelter their animals, you know,

1079
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: what kind of fire, what kind of would they use?

1080
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: You know, all those things are so interesting for me.

1081
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 1: And and so the traveling is great. But one bad

1082
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: thing that I said, or not bad, but it's just

1083
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: weird that I don't know very much about Montana. I

1084
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: get this request from local magazines and I never been

1085
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: to those places. You know, Montana is so big, So

1086
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: I would like to change it a little bit and

1087
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: explore more Montana and kind of balance with the traveling.

1088
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: And traveling is a four months a year, but the

1089
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: rest of them the rest of the time I'm here. Yeah,

1090
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean this is as I said, moving

1091
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: here for me. I mean, you just I feel like

1092
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 1: the opportunity, immense opportunity to explore the West is it

1093
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: could take me thirty years and I still wouldn't have

1094
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: much knowledge of what i'd want to what I want

1095
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: to go explore. But that's a fun that's a fun

1096
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: idea to have. I mean, I don't know, you know,

1097
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: I think what informs a lot of your life is

1098
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: is how you grew up. I mean that's you know,

1099
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 1: and where you grew up. Um, yeah, this is a

1100
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: big playground. Yes, I mean, if you're a hunter and

1101
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 1: fishermen and skier and you know, river guide or kayaker

1102
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 1: or mountain climber, ice climber. I mean, we have it,

1103
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: and it's just amazing the variety of the outdoor sports

1104
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: we have here and the people here. Last time we

1105
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: came here for the Assada, I was struck that in

1106
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: your house was like this wonderful bunch of wonderful people

1107
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 1: and they were from all over this country, in this

1108
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: world that had collected here around your place and around

1109
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,919
Speaker 1: this river and this state. I mean, it was amazing. Yeah.

1110
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: I mean people in Bozemen are are really nice. I

1111
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 1: mean people in Montana and generally nice. And and they're inquisitive.

1112
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: You know, you meet these locals, they are they're asking

1113
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: you questions. You know, there are these ranchers that they

1114
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 1: see where you come from? What are you doing here?

1115
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: You know, why do you want to hunt in his place?

1116
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: Or you know when you get to meet and then

1117
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 1: they go, oh, we remember that our grandfather was from Czechoslovakia,

1118
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 1: or it was from Germany, or I never felt once

1119
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: living in the U S that somebody would be prejudice

1120
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: because they come from different countries. I think it works

1121
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: to our advantages. Always say, and and you know, there's

1122
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 1: so much public land to hunt in the top of it.

1123
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 1: There's so much private land that you could hunt. You

1124
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 1: just have to go and knock in the door, you know,

1125
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: not one month before the season opened or the opening day,

1126
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: but go there in May, in June and and put

1127
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 1: a little work in. Yeah, helping me the cattle, is

1128
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: helping me the fans, and not too many doors will

1129
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: be closed. That's right. Yeah, I've I found it. I

1130
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: found a lot of places in the country, but especially here.

1131
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 1: I mean Texas has its own way of treating people

1132
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 1: in its own culture and and there's some bravado and

1133
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 1: brashness there. But here in Montana there's it's it's welcoming.

1134
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I don't speak like they speak

1135
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 1: here in Rder you you bet, but that but that,

1136
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got quite a community along this river

1137
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: of people out of your neighbors. And you're you know,

1138
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 1: your and my wife, he said, well, she loves the

1139
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:46,439
Speaker 1: local community. She's part of this group of um woman

1140
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: of the dirt. There's a group of eighty or ninety ladies,

1141
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: dirty woman and they surround themselves with this old experience.

1142
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 1: People who who've been gardering for sixty seventy years, who've

1143
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 1: been dealing with animals and issue in Montana for many years,

1144
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: and just share the informations. You know, the exchange eggs

1145
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 1: for breeding stocks were I don't know, different type of chickens,

1146
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 1: and and what tools to use, how to check the

1147
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: soil for pH and in a million out of things.

1148
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: Don't listen, everybody out there, listen. Don't google dirty women Montana.

1149
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: You're not going to get that club woman of the

1150
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: dirt Club. Now. Your wife is a very impressive person

1151
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: as well. And you guys have, um the life you

1152
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 1: have carved out here is is is amazing. And your

1153
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: kids are are amazing. I mean they look you in

1154
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: the eye, they shake your hand. I mean, they're you know,

1155
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: wonderful people in their own right. I mean, and what

1156
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: are your philosophies on raising children? And and I mean

1157
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 1: you brought them here to Montana for a reason. I'm sure. Yeah,

1158
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:03,919
Speaker 1: I think you know. I love kids, love being with them.

1159
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 1: And I didn't have the greatest example when I was

1160
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: a kid. You know, my parents were divorced when I

1161
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 1: was year old. My fire was drinking a lot, so

1162
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: there was lots of struggles there. There were lots of abuses,

1163
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,719
Speaker 1: but I always say the boat of the parents showed

1164
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: me a beautiful example how now to do things, So

1165
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: I always think about it and just try to do different. Now.

1166
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: We've seeing some people in my village where they were

1167
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 1: interacting with the kids, where they were they were loving them,

1168
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 1: they were putting hands on them, they were kissing them,

1169
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 1: they were just you know they and I always just

1170
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: envy that, um And that's what I want to have.

1171
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 1: So when somebody asked me, we're only gonna have kids,

1172
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 1: it's like, what do you mean to win? I mean,

1173
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 1: I just like I will have kids as soon as

1174
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:47,720
Speaker 1: I can. That's part of the life that I want

1175
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:51,639
Speaker 1: to live. It's nice to raise another set of kids

1176
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: that will appreciate this world and may be contribute with

1177
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: with something and just keep going. Yeah, your kids are

1178
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: great examples of thank you, adjusted human beings. UM. So

1179
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 1: I think people a lot learn a lot from the

1180
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:12,840
Speaker 1: way you guys treat that with their lives and a

1181
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: little where they live. Yeah, thank you. Yeah they are

1182
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: they are good kids. And I read somewhere that they

1183
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 1: are my kids, but they are not mine. They're the

1184
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 1: kids of the world. You basically cannot You can show them,

1185
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,719
Speaker 1: you can take them to places but you really cannot

1186
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 1: make them to do They can do their own thing.

1187
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:32,560
Speaker 1: So it will be I'm very excited to see what

1188
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 1: would become of them. You know how they're gonna how

1189
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: are they gonna deal with their life? You know what

1190
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: can the jobs still have? Maybe those jobs are not

1191
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 1: created yet for them. You know this everything goes so

1192
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: fast nowadays, and see how they're going to balance it now.

1193
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 1: I think I had the advantage to grow up in

1194
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 1: them what would you say? A poor community but wealthy

1195
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 1: and relations between people. Um. And you know, moving to

1196
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 1: us and living here there, I have everything that can

1197
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 1: passible ask for. You know, you just we are getting

1198
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 1: We are well paid here, We have the opportunity to

1199
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: do whatever we want. The things are relatively inexpensive. You

1200
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: can save lots of money. Um. And we'll see what

1201
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: happened to them, you know, see how they're gonna see

1202
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 1: if they're gonna see the opportunity or or not. Well,

1203
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,439
Speaker 1: it's such a perspective that you have on that right

1204
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,719
Speaker 1: because you know, how you grew up is so different.

1205
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: How that how they're growing up. And you can tell

1206
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: them listen, this is you are lucky. Yeah, you can't

1207
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,600
Speaker 1: tell them, but you can over boil that pot, you know,

1208
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 1: because he just they were tired of it. So I will.

1209
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 1: You know, I took my son already to Europe a

1210
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,599
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, and he gets to see where

1211
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 1: I grew up, where I live. You get to see

1212
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: the soccer field that I play soccer, and he did play.

1213
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: He went to the mountains where we hunt, He saw

1214
01:10:53,880 --> 01:11:00,280
Speaker 1: the cemetery in the church, and just exposing to those

1215
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: thinks I think they should on their own. Somehow realized

1216
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 1: when they get back to us that what they have. Yeah,

1217
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: so I'm hoping that that would work, but they they

1218
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 1: need more visits. So we are doing another visit next

1219
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 1: year in Spain. And and I think that is it's

1220
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: kind of important for kids to see the world so

1221
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: they can put things in perspectives, provide perspective and let

1222
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 1: it go from there. And we know that too. I mean,

1223
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 1: you travel, travel and you go, like you said, you

1224
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:29,719
Speaker 1: go to Nepal and you see somebody's holding basket with apples,

1225
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 1: but has bigg a smile than somebody who has a

1226
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 1: brand new Cadillac. Yeah. We could go on that subject

1227
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:37,560
Speaker 1: for days, but yes, I think we talked about that

1228
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: last time. We were here and roughly remember through the

1229
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 1: break the all the stomach full of lamb and a

1230
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 1: belly full of brandy that we talked about that. But

1231
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,720
Speaker 1: it is the perspective of the world. You know. It

1232
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: can inform you, for sure, but it also can drive

1233
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 1: you to you know, to be a better version of yourself. Um.

1234
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: That certainly has or me because it's one of those

1235
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: things where I'm always stopping to you know, adjust, you know,

1236
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: if I'm frustrated from traffic, or if I'm frustrated from

1237
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 1: something at work, and I stopped and adjusting, Like, Wow,

1238
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,680
Speaker 1: how is this bringing me happiness? And why am I

1239
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 1: not allowing it to? You know, someone with nothing in

1240
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 1: Nepal or wherever you find that person is can smile

1241
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 1: and play a song. Um, in abject poverty. Why can't

1242
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: I find that same smile when I'm you know, sitting

1243
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: on the heated seat driving to work. Oh, it's a

1244
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:39,480
Speaker 1: community and it's a people you know. Um. The realtors

1245
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 1: have the famous saying location, location, locations, Well, I think

1246
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 1: the people, people people, It's kind of more important to me.

1247
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 1: And it's your personality, it's your uniqueness. Did you get

1248
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 1: to use in work or with your friends and that

1249
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: kind of influence and craft your journey through this world.

1250
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:58,640
Speaker 1: So if you surround yourself with the right people that

1251
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 1: will help you, they don't drain you. Um and and

1252
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 1: outdoors has the tendency to make better people. You know,

1253
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it these trips, gosh, I've been. I mean, well,

1254
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 1: let's say over a hundred hundred trips around the world,

1255
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 1: and you have all these people. You get ten guests,

1256
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: they go with me or or more sell them. You

1257
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:26,720
Speaker 1: find someone who is not happy holding fishing ground or

1258
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:29,640
Speaker 1: gun in their hands, you know. So it's just like, well,

1259
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:31,800
Speaker 1: what happened to all these nasty people that you read about?

1260
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,759
Speaker 1: You know all this? It's just the outdoors have tendency

1261
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 1: to just just make you better, to relax you. And

1262
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the exercise did you get

1263
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,920
Speaker 1: with that hunting, or or it's just being up there

1264
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 1: for fresh air. I'm sure it's there's it's a complex

1265
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 1: tale of what it actually gives you, but it works.

1266
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 1: It's something. Yes, it is a medicine, and part of

1267
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 1: my struggle. I'm sure you have it too. Is it

1268
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:00,560
Speaker 1: when you get that medicine and you go all without it.

1269
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 1: You're you suffer yourself suffers. You you got you think, well, man,

1270
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: I could use a day just so. The Bozeman is

1271
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 1: a perfect example. And you have to builderness experience and

1272
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,559
Speaker 1: the beauty of our doors. Yet do you have all

1273
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:17,880
Speaker 1: the amenity of modern life. We have electricities, we have propanes,

1274
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:23,600
Speaker 1: we have roads. It's not far. Yeah, I mean I

1275
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: think that's My wife said that. I mean, she's not

1276
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 1: an outdoors these type of person um really at all,

1277
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 1: but she just said seeing the mountains provide some comfort

1278
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 1: that I can't explain. It's like just looking out there

1279
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: and seeing that provides something that I can't There's something

1280
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 1: I can't articulate like I can articulate because I've been

1281
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 1: on those mountains. It's it's that medicine that I can

1282
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:46,760
Speaker 1: see it. Every morning I wake up like if if

1283
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 1: life is getting me down, if if I'm spun up

1284
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: in a way that I can't overcome, I'll just go

1285
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 1: over there and I'll climb that mountain and look, just

1286
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 1: keep going and there are millions of acres around here.

1287
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:00,760
Speaker 1: And one of my favorite thinks earlier was to go

1288
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: chase elk with the bow and by myself for eight

1289
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 1: ten days. Just fill up the back back with spam

1290
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:12,839
Speaker 1: and sardines and bread and bagels and garlic and onions,

1291
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:15,680
Speaker 1: and just go ahead and pretend that was the that

1292
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,240
Speaker 1: was the Indian and just try to mess up with

1293
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 1: the elk and slip under the open skies. I love that, yeah, Um,

1294
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 1: the access to that, Yeah, I mean it's it settles

1295
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: you somehow, even just know when it's there, even if

1296
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 1: you're too busy to get to it all the time.

1297
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: Like I can see it at least I know if

1298
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:36,760
Speaker 1: if dire straits are here, I can retreat, get back,

1299
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,640
Speaker 1: to get back to that mountain. But you you know,

1300
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 1: you grew up in Czecho, Swakia. Um, I mean I'd

1301
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 1: love to hear the whole story, really, I mean tell

1302
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:50,799
Speaker 1: me about you know, the place, the people, your parents,

1303
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: your upbringing. So it's a small village and the Carpathian

1304
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:59,360
Speaker 1: mountains named Krivani. You know, about five people lived there,

1305
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 1: but each house have three generations, you know, living together,

1306
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 1: and that was I think that was kind of unique

1307
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:11,639
Speaker 1: because you really were better prepared for the world because

1308
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 1: you have the comfort of your parents and also the

1309
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 1: wisdom of your grandparents, and you can reach into that

1310
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:21,559
Speaker 1: well and just drink it when you need it. Um.

1311
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 1: So everybody had their animals. Everybody had the garden. You know,

1312
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:31,759
Speaker 1: they have communal way of taking turns in grazing the animals.

1313
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:33,600
Speaker 1: Every morning they would open the gate and all the

1314
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 1: cows with bells would come out and one guy would

1315
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 1: take them in the mountain's graze and bring them back

1316
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 1: was somebody's elster. Next day with cheap they've done same thing.

1317
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 1: It was a small community where hunting was respected. You know,

1318
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 1: in Czech Republic the name for hunters miss yvetts, which

1319
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:53,599
Speaker 1: means double meaning could be hunter or the one who

1320
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 1: would think, because the hunter actually have to make the

1321
01:16:56,560 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: decision to to see which animal to eliminate from the pool.

1322
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 1: From the pool, you know, he looked at the stag

1323
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 1: and said, all the stag is too all things to

1324
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 1: get out, you know, he was danger goring outer stacks,

1325
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:12,640
Speaker 1: or he was he was no good. Or there were

1326
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 1: younger animals where um, they didn't grow well, so they

1327
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:19,080
Speaker 1: need to be eliminated from the pool. And we talked

1328
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 1: about earlier, um and it just you know, it reminded

1329
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 1: me of the responsibility of a hunter. Yeah, and you

1330
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 1: got to go to school. I think we went for

1331
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 1: a couple of years or one year to school, and

1332
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,599
Speaker 1: you have to learn the fauna and flora, but because

1333
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:38,680
Speaker 1: is kind of fun fuel Latin, the names. You have

1334
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 1: to learn how many eggs pheasant lays, what's the incubations,

1335
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 1: and you learned about stream, about fish, about trees different

1336
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 1: kind of tree, hardwood, softwood, and then it was kind

1337
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:53,680
Speaker 1: of interesting. Then you had to put as many as

1338
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 1: hours as you put on working around forests. For example,

1339
01:17:57,240 --> 01:17:59,719
Speaker 1: of a building tree stands, you were cleip picking trash,

1340
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:03,320
Speaker 1: you were building bridges over the streams. How many hours

1341
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:09,320
Speaker 1: you put that counts towards um you know, better selections

1342
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:11,600
Speaker 1: of the game you could hunt. For example, if you

1343
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 1: put ten hours, you only get two hunt rabbits, but

1344
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 1: you put hundred hours, you get two hundred stack. So

1345
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:19,639
Speaker 1: it was something more than just go buy a license

1346
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,759
Speaker 1: and go hunting, which you know, it's just a different system,

1347
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 1: but people were more connected to it. But so as

1348
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:28,320
Speaker 1: the kids, you know, we love to hang with hunters.

1349
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 1: I mean those whiskery gray faces. There were you know,

1350
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:34,439
Speaker 1: drinking plumber and they'd have a little flask and they

1351
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: were sitting by the fire and telling stories about how

1352
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 1: they out fox fox, you know, sitting in the haystacks

1353
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 1: and and just waiting for them to come. Where wolf

1354
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 1: stories And of course every kid wanted to be cowboy.

1355
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 1: In Indian you know, we we had these books from

1356
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 1: Germany by writer's name Carl May. Then we have some

1357
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:57,800
Speaker 1: books Fennimore Cooper, The Last of the Mohicans. And I

1358
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 1: love reading. I mean I was a book. I was

1359
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,679
Speaker 1: reading in a school, in a church, in a train,

1360
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:08,640
Speaker 1: under blankets, just reading and reading. And I was fascinated

1361
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 1: by the wild West. You know, how people can ride

1362
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:13,840
Speaker 1: horses and sleep in the tpis and shoot their bows

1363
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 1: and troves spears and live. So I was always dreamed

1364
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 1: as a man, I would like to do that. And

1365
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,800
Speaker 1: I was eight ten twelve and one of those books

1366
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:26,080
Speaker 1: one year there was a name Montana, and I just

1367
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:28,880
Speaker 1: really loved that name Montana. It's like, what I'm gonna

1368
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:33,640
Speaker 1: go there? Okay, well, eleven twelve, you just really, you know,

1369
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 1: you cannot predict your future. But um, you know, the

1370
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,639
Speaker 1: communists of course would not let you leave because everybody

1371
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 1: would leave and there would be nobody to work for them.

1372
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 1: But as things start changing in n you know, the

1373
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 1: Soviets were losing rains and losing the Cold War. I

1374
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:54,280
Speaker 1: keep applying for six years to get out, and I said,

1375
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to Montana and I want to see

1376
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 1: my mother. My mother at that time was living in

1377
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 1: West Germany that I did not know very much about her,

1378
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 1: but I use her as an example that I want

1379
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 1: to see her as a humans, right just to writing

1380
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:11,200
Speaker 1: letter to United Nations and everywhere. And you know, they said, well,

1381
01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 1: if you put one more year at the work, I

1382
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:15,600
Speaker 1: said okay, and oh, if you go to military for

1383
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 1: two years. I said, okay, Well I get back from

1384
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: military after a couple of years. And they said, oh no,

1385
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 1: we were joking, you're not going anywhere. Well, now i'm

1386
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, I'm exploding. You know, I'm just troublemaker.

1387
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 1: As like I want to get out, I don't. That's

1388
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:33,800
Speaker 1: what the communism finally grab ahold of me. Because when

1389
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:36,839
Speaker 1: you're a kid, you really don't understand. You didn't understand

1390
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,040
Speaker 1: what's going on. Why all these people are so depressed,

1391
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 1: Why all the people drink while all the people have

1392
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 1: no freedom. You know, they cannot own guns, they cannot always,

1393
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:49,280
Speaker 1: they cannot, they cannot do very much. You know, they

1394
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 1: can just celebrate their march for the Communist and they

1395
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 1: finally grabbed me. That's what this is a strange place.

1396
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:57,560
Speaker 1: I feel like a sheep in a shelter where I

1397
01:20:57,600 --> 01:20:59,639
Speaker 1: am just surrounded and tell what to do all the time.

1398
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:04,880
Speaker 1: Some more letters, more more annoyances for them and me,

1399
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,000
Speaker 1: until one day I just got this letter that oh,

1400
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:13,479
Speaker 1: you can go to US permission granted. It's like, what

1401
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: the heck happened? So, um, there was a chain of

1402
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 1: command where I have to apply. You have to apply

1403
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:22,760
Speaker 1: to my direct boss and bosses boss and bosses boss,

1404
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 1: and twenty other people passed that have to approve before

1405
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: you can get to the main guy at the end

1406
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 1: who was living in Prague. But all of a sudden,

1407
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 1: I just keep all these guys and I wrote in

1408
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 1: direct letter that's my human rights to visit matter and

1409
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:37,519
Speaker 1: I want to go, and he just replaced it. What

1410
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 1: goes on? So I got the permission, I get the

1411
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:44,839
Speaker 1: US embassy in Prague, and I see all these German

1412
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:47,720
Speaker 1: jumping fences. You know, German from East Germany were kind

1413
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 1: of jumping fences to West German embassy and things were

1414
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: changing slowly in the big cities, but we didn't know that.

1415
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 1: You know, we were in the mountains. We didn't have

1416
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:59,680
Speaker 1: any local news or anything other than you know, with

1417
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 1: my grandfather was listening to BBC or Voice of America. Well,

1418
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 1: it seems like there was a stark change, like as

1419
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 1: a child, there's some romance and and you know where

1420
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 1: you were. And then as you grew up you started

1421
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 1: to realize, you know, there's a bigger world. There's a

1422
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 1: bigger world, and I'm in a communist cage here. That yeah,

1423
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 1: and if we didn't know anything, you know, the communist

1424
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 1: would tell us, if you keep working hard, you're gonna

1425
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:24,120
Speaker 1: have really good lifestyle, just like the Russians have. All

1426
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 1: the Russian had world lifestyle, then we did. And I

1427
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 1: also we didn't know anything about the US other than um,

1428
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:34,599
Speaker 1: you know, during the depression, many checks in Slovak left

1429
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:37,439
Speaker 1: for America. So we would have every third fourth house

1430
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: would have a family member that immigrated to US. So

1431
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:44,640
Speaker 1: we really like America. Did you get a lot of

1432
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:47,000
Speaker 1: stories back from there? We did, but it was all

1433
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:50,599
Speaker 1: deceiving because my grandfather always said Americans always wear white

1434
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 1: clothes all day long. Oh well, maybe butcher or somebody,

1435
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean we don't know, you know, they

1436
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 1: were white eyes and white clothes. Not after Labor Day.

1437
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:02,800
Speaker 1: My friend, yeah, my friends thought that Americans are sitting

1438
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 1: in the ditches because that's what we were doing as

1439
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:06,560
Speaker 1: a kids, you know, running them out and sitting in

1440
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 1: the ditches, put your feet up, sticking in one hand,

1441
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 1: and was just beating bushes and said, all they do

1442
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:14,640
Speaker 1: just sit in those ditches and fried chicken come by.

1443
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 1: They just grab it and need it. I mean totals,

1444
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 1: I mean sign what do you call it? Sign? Sci fi?

1445
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 1: We had no idea how people live in US, absolutely zero.

1446
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:30,280
Speaker 1: So when I come to the US, finally when I

1447
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 1: get the permissions and I can go, my mother took

1448
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 1: me to Walmart or Kmart, and I couldn't believe it.

1449
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:40,360
Speaker 1: You know, from this little store when they were selling beer, butter, wine,

1450
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:47,360
Speaker 1: and bread. There were everything forty different breads, twenty different butters,

1451
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of different wine, and shoes and clothes

1452
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 1: and tools. You know, I knew pitchfork and shovel and

1453
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 1: maybe rake. Where are tools? They had no idea what

1454
01:23:57,000 --> 01:23:59,599
Speaker 1: do you do with? So I spent all day, all

1455
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:01,439
Speaker 1: day at store, and next day asked me, where you

1456
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 1: want to go back to Walmart. I still have some

1457
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 1: things to see there. So we were living completely in

1458
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:10,840
Speaker 1: the darkness. And you know that was thirty years ago,

1459
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:15,599
Speaker 1: not that far and what a different world in the eighties. Yeah, yeah,

1460
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:18,479
Speaker 1: I think. And your mother came with you. You know,

1461
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:21,640
Speaker 1: my mom took a vacation from West Germany, that's what

1462
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:24,240
Speaker 1: she lived, and she went to Florida and she decided

1463
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 1: to stay here for a while. But it wasn't for her.

1464
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 1: She had a hard time to learn language, and and

1465
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 1: she was kind of disappointed why so many people are

1466
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 1: so poor with all the possibilities they have. She couldn't

1467
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:41,240
Speaker 1: understand why everybody were leaving paycheck to paycheck. So I

1468
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:43,280
Speaker 1: don't think it was for her. So she left went

1469
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 1: back to Germany and I, you know, I stayed in

1470
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: Florida for a year, and um, I couldn't speak in English.

1471
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 1: You know, there was just shaking hands and moving eyes

1472
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 1: and smile. Uh. It's it's just kind of interesting feeling

1473
01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 1: to this day. I still like to understand. I mean

1474
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:04,840
Speaker 1: it really enjoyed it. Yeah, it really just brings something

1475
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:06,759
Speaker 1: out of you that you really tried to get across.

1476
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:12,160
Speaker 1: But not orally, but it's just moving, yeah, and it's

1477
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 1: it was kind of fun. So I stayed and went

1478
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:17,560
Speaker 1: to school. After after work, I was working at the

1479
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:22,559
Speaker 1: boatyard scraping barnacles and painting boats and working the body shops,

1480
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, grinding cars and taping windows because those jobs

1481
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 1: you really don't have to speak English. Do you remember

1482
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:31,840
Speaker 1: the first folks I kind of that you would say,

1483
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 1: took you in and yeah. So there was a people

1484
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 1: at a wrinkling breader circus and lots of the circus

1485
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 1: people were from all over the Europe. They immigrated or

1486
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:44,599
Speaker 1: they got kind of sponsorship or something. And my mother

1487
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:46,719
Speaker 1: told me about the lady who is from Czech Republic

1488
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:50,599
Speaker 1: and she was good and trampoline and trapezes and ropes.

1489
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:53,680
Speaker 1: Her name was Maria. She was a wonderful lady, and

1490
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 1: so I just went to her. And I didn't want

1491
01:25:58,040 --> 01:25:59,759
Speaker 1: a knock in the door because I showed it in midnight.

1492
01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: So I just spent my first name under the palm tree.

1493
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:04,800
Speaker 1: And I was so thirsty and so hungry, and I

1494
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 1: saw this beautiful um oranges hanging, said, I grabbed one

1495
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:11,639
Speaker 1: and I bide it and it was just not ready.

1496
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 1: But you know it was. It was this feeling that

1497
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 1: what the heck am I doing here? In the morning,

1498
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 1: I started hearing some dishes and noises and knocking the

1499
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:23,600
Speaker 1: door and says, hi, and names do Sean? And my

1500
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:26,599
Speaker 1: mom said that she knows a friend of your friend.

1501
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 1: And I was just wondering if you can help me.

1502
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 1: Ladies looking at me, I was like, oh yeah, come

1503
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:35,600
Speaker 1: and let's have a coffee. So we started talking and

1504
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:39,680
Speaker 1: then um, she asked, what am I gonna do? You know.

1505
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 1: She was living at that time with her grandson who

1506
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:46,519
Speaker 1: was eight years old, and I kind of play with

1507
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: the kid a little bit. And after I stayed there

1508
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 1: a couple of days, she said, I stay another week.

1509
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:53,439
Speaker 1: So I helped her with the house. I was raking alan,

1510
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 1: cutting grass, cleaning different things. You said, last another month,

1511
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:00,360
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, you can just stay as

1512
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 1: long as you want. So she really helps me, you know,

1513
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 1: to to just to just understand that I need help.

1514
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 1: And I was able to find a job and take

1515
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 1: care of myself. And but the Florida wasn't for me.

1516
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 1: You know, I grew up in the mountains. I like

1517
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 1: to hike collect to were you always and I know

1518
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:20,280
Speaker 1: you said Montana was interesting to you from the beginning,

1519
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:23,880
Speaker 1: but I mean getting out of Communist, check Republican, getting

1520
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:25,800
Speaker 1: every here. Was it always Montana for you or did

1521
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:27,560
Speaker 1: you just lose it and find it again when you

1522
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 1: got to know? I always started Montana. And when teacher,

1523
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 1: you know school at they call s classes English is

1524
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 1: the second language. They always asking what would you want

1525
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 1: to do? Where do you want to go? So when

1526
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:40,240
Speaker 1: I could say Montana, I said, well I want to

1527
01:27:40,280 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 1: go to Montana, said well, what are you gonna do there?

1528
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:45,240
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I was in the forest trees, so

1529
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:47,560
Speaker 1: I can be Lumberjack Loger. I mean, Montana must have

1530
01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 1: lots of trees. Um. And my teacher, um, you know,

1531
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:57,080
Speaker 1: she was very cool. She she actually was teaching English

1532
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 1: on the on the Guard Brooks tape. You know, so

1533
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:03,160
Speaker 1: the old tapes when you put in the recorder come

1534
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:07,679
Speaker 1: with a little paper folder and then the singer was singing,

1535
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,120
Speaker 1: you could follow with the words. The problem was there

1536
01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 1: was lots of slang, you know, so we just do

1537
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:15,680
Speaker 1: you remember any Garth Brooks song? Oh? Yeah, gosh, I

1538
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 1: remember all of them from that song I Got Friends

1539
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:21,960
Speaker 1: in the Low Place, Yeah, that's know. That was awesome.

1540
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 1: So that was upgrading because before that teacher just came

1541
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:27,800
Speaker 1: to the board and draw pictures of cat and go meo, meo,

1542
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: meo cat dog. So that's how we have to start.

1543
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:34,360
Speaker 1: You know, you have this twenty some year adults and

1544
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 1: we are learning language. I'm coming ever, we're gonna come over,

1545
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 1: bring garth Brokes, drink brandy. And that's about the fire

1546
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 1: that because products, that's where the good days. And then

1547
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 1: that the school teacher introduced me to another wonderful lady.

1548
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:50,799
Speaker 1: Her name is Cissy, and she was moving back to Bozeman.

1549
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:57,000
Speaker 1: So I said, well, um, come with you, and he goes, oh,

1550
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 1: I would love to take her. She was just very nice.

1551
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 1: You know, my dear friend. Now she was driving along

1552
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:06,519
Speaker 1: your hold truck betrailer, and she did have no experience.

1553
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 1: I saw her cutting corners and I was in military.

1554
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:10,280
Speaker 1: When I was in military, was driving sem. I said

1555
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:12,840
Speaker 1: I can help with the driving. So I drove her

1556
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 1: to Montana and we got here I think in nineteen

1557
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:22,760
Speaker 1: ninety one two in March, and I parked this your

1558
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:24,639
Speaker 1: whole truck in the Bozeman. I was full of snow

1559
01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 1: and there was this little girl, barefooted standing in the

1560
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:31,760
Speaker 1: snow looking at me. Bee ther arms up and goes,

1561
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:34,760
Speaker 1: let me get this straight. Are you moving in removing out?

1562
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:39,439
Speaker 1: So I thought, well, this is gonna be a good place.

1563
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:42,920
Speaker 1: And you know, with all this opportunity that I have

1564
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 1: to live anywhere else, this was gold mine. I guess

1565
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 1: I grew up on an older Okay, thank you du

1566
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:57,519
Speaker 1: Sean As always, again, if you want to listen to that,

1567
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 1: go back find Duson's Metano podcast and listen to the

1568
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:03,679
Speaker 1: whole thing. There's another hour in there that you missed.

1569
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 1: It's a worthy hour, so go and find it. Give

1570
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:10,280
Speaker 1: it a listen if you have some time. Last, but

1571
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:13,000
Speaker 1: certainly not least here there's another person that Phil has

1572
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 1: no idea about. Well, no, you will know this person.

1573
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:19,400
Speaker 1: You will know this person, I hope. Charles Rodney, the

1574
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 1: Rabbit Man. Oh yeah, you've talked you've talked about him. Yeah,

1575
01:30:22,280 --> 01:30:25,519
Speaker 1: you talked about him on the podcast with Carolin Finney. Yeah,

1576
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:31,839
Speaker 1: there you go. So we've at Charles Rodney is another

1577
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 1: beautiful individual. And again, if you if you line these

1578
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:40,439
Speaker 1: things up, you have three people, their backstory, how they

1579
01:30:40,479 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 1: came to be where they are, how I came to

1580
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 1: know them, being as interesting as anything, But they all

1581
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 1: love hunting and they can't. They couldn't come from any

1582
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:51,680
Speaker 1: more disparate backgrounds. You have in Charles Rodney, the son

1583
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:55,120
Speaker 1: of a sharecropper in Louisiana, and Wyman Men's Aer the

1584
01:30:55,200 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 1: son of a rancher in North Texas, and then Shan

1585
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:02,080
Speaker 1: Spitana who grew up in poverty in Chechoslovakia. But all

1586
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:05,599
Speaker 1: of them have these weird stories that kind of coalesce

1587
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:10,040
Speaker 1: around hunting, coalesce around the values of hunting and why

1588
01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:12,519
Speaker 1: we do what we do. And so as I went

1589
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:14,679
Speaker 1: through this, I'm thinking, man, what a what a great

1590
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 1: way to kind of illustrate how our lives are affected

1591
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:20,560
Speaker 1: by this pastime. So we'll start that. We'll start that

1592
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:23,599
Speaker 1: with with Charles Rodney. Charles Rodney is probably the most

1593
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:26,760
Speaker 1: interesting person to listen to. I call it the Church

1594
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:29,280
Speaker 1: of rabbit Hunting. He preaches on rabbit hunting as if

1595
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 1: he's at the pulpit, and he basically is. In this case.

1596
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 1: He was the son of a share cropper in segregationist

1597
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 1: if that's the right word to use, I'm sure it

1598
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:42,760
Speaker 1: is Louisiana. He grew up in relative poverty, and he

1599
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 1: talks about this in this in this interview, he talks

1600
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:47,519
Speaker 1: about his life and what it meant kind of what

1601
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:53,160
Speaker 1: hunting was for the more prominent landowners, what hunting was

1602
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,840
Speaker 1: for the poor share croppers that worked their place, and

1603
01:31:56,960 --> 01:32:00,479
Speaker 1: so that that's a big part of what I appreciate

1604
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:02,880
Speaker 1: about Charles. But also I appreciate his zest for life.

1605
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:06,160
Speaker 1: And if you go in his house, his wife, he

1606
01:32:06,240 --> 01:32:08,400
Speaker 1: and his wife like cook cooks me breakfast. It's like

1607
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 1: the best breakfast you'll ever have, is all all Louisiana

1608
01:32:11,160 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 1: home cooking. I met him over a rabbit hunt. He's

1609
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 1: got beagles and uh, I'll give you a little example

1610
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,519
Speaker 1: phil what it's like to hunt with Charles Rodney. He

1611
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 1: has these beagles running around, they're sent sent trailing rabbits

1612
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:24,400
Speaker 1: and to get him all together and get him work.

1613
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:26,120
Speaker 1: And he goes like, oh yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah

1614
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:29,800
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, come on, get him,

1615
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:33,320
Speaker 1: get him And that's pretty much the whole That's what

1616
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 1: you hear the entire time you hunt with Charles. Uh,

1617
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:39,920
Speaker 1: it is fantastic. He's a fantastic human. I've I've had

1618
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,920
Speaker 1: him on the podcast twice. Now I hope to hunt

1619
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:47,599
Speaker 1: with him. This February four cotton tails on the Eastern

1620
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:51,400
Speaker 1: Shore of Maryland. So please enjoy this little clip from

1621
01:32:51,439 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 1: my conversation with Charles the Rabbit Man, Rodney, the Church

1622
01:32:55,640 --> 01:33:04,800
Speaker 1: of Rabbit Hunt. Alright, we're recording Charles. How are you, sir?

1623
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:08,880
Speaker 1: I'm doing fine. Well, thanks for having me to your home. Well,

1624
01:33:08,960 --> 01:33:12,719
Speaker 1: you're quite welcome, my pleasure. UM. I want to start

1625
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:16,200
Speaker 1: by saying, you know how long when did we rabbit hunt?

1626
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:18,760
Speaker 1: It was a year. It was about two years ago,

1627
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:23,920
Speaker 1: two seasons ago, two seasons ago, um on the Eastern Shore, Maryland.

1628
01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:26,920
Speaker 1: And I wish we could have done it last year.

1629
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:30,599
Speaker 1: We were just talking about having children, that being busy

1630
01:33:30,640 --> 01:33:33,639
Speaker 1: and how that that does it. But when we hunted

1631
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 1: together on the Eastern Shore, it struck me that that

1632
01:33:36,240 --> 01:33:38,880
Speaker 1: was a hunt I would do every year, and I

1633
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:41,920
Speaker 1: think you should. It was an awesome hunt. Yeah, it

1634
01:33:41,960 --> 01:33:44,040
Speaker 1: was a great hunt. And it also struck me that

1635
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:46,560
Speaker 1: the one the first thing we should talk about is

1636
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 1: how delicious rabbit meat cotton tails are. Rabbit meat is

1637
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 1: one of the best meat and it's it's it's all

1638
01:33:56,160 --> 01:34:00,800
Speaker 1: natural and there's hardly any fat. They eat, only troll things,

1639
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:04,519
Speaker 1: grass and leaves and twigs out in the woods and

1640
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:07,040
Speaker 1: they're running and they literally eat soybean and stuff that

1641
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:11,080
Speaker 1: they can get to. Uh, but they're running, so they're

1642
01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:15,000
Speaker 1: healthy there. There are no fat on them, and uh,

1643
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:17,519
Speaker 1: it's one of the healthiest foods you can find. A

1644
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:19,680
Speaker 1: lot of people don't know that, and a lot of

1645
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 1: people see them running around their backyard. They don't even

1646
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:25,679
Speaker 1: think about what's right. So after that, we hunted in February.

1647
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:28,880
Speaker 1: After that hunt we did, my dad was along. We

1648
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 1: went Super Bowl Sunday. We cooked up a bunch of

1649
01:34:32,280 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 1: rabbit legs. We soaked him in milk, a little bit,

1650
01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:37,640
Speaker 1: fried them up, put a little old bay on them,

1651
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:41,360
Speaker 1: served him at a Super Bowl party. Everybody that was

1652
01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:43,759
Speaker 1: there eating them like these chicken. These chicken legs are great.

1653
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:47,439
Speaker 1: These are best chicken legs in her hat. So that's

1654
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:51,640
Speaker 1: a rabbit. Most city people don't know. They were What

1655
01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:56,160
Speaker 1: where'd you get this chicken? Well? I got it on

1656
01:34:56,200 --> 01:34:59,640
Speaker 1: the Eastern Shore, and it's a damn rabbit, said I

1657
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,360
Speaker 1: always struck with me. Is not only is rabbit hunting fun,

1658
01:35:03,400 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 1: we're talking about it earlier here. Not only is it fun,

1659
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:08,800
Speaker 1: is it easy to do? But you end up with

1660
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:11,679
Speaker 1: you know a bunch of rabbits to go home skin

1661
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,280
Speaker 1: and eat. That's fun for a kid to do. And

1662
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:18,040
Speaker 1: rabbits um. Not only are they good and good for you,

1663
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:22,680
Speaker 1: but they're one of the easiest game to clean. You

1664
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 1: can clean. I can clean a bunch of rabbits by

1665
01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:30,240
Speaker 1: the time I cleaned two squirrels. And and it you

1666
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 1: just cut a little slit and you pull them opposite

1667
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:35,760
Speaker 1: in and all of her come off. You pull, you

1668
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:39,120
Speaker 1: slip behind the tail or slit. I usually slip over

1669
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:41,400
Speaker 1: the back, around the stomach and put my finger in

1670
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:44,840
Speaker 1: and just pull out with yes right, and it comes

1671
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 1: off the off the back, legs and over the head.

1672
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:48,800
Speaker 1: Now a lot of other guys do it a little

1673
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 1: bit different. And then I just take a knife and

1674
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 1: and and got them and I'm done. And if they're

1675
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:58,920
Speaker 1: if they're a little bloody, I soaked them. I got

1676
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 1: a big one of and big wash tubs. So come

1677
01:36:02,120 --> 01:36:05,519
Speaker 1: for eight to ten hours overnight usually and all that

1678
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:08,559
Speaker 1: blood comes out and then you clean it off, wrap

1679
01:36:08,680 --> 01:36:10,920
Speaker 1: it in freeze of paper. A lot of guys you shrink,

1680
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:14,120
Speaker 1: wrap and label them and there you go and you're

1681
01:36:14,240 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 1: you're ready and so forth. Did your wife cook up

1682
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:20,519
Speaker 1: a lot of rabbits. My wife actually is a city girl.

1683
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:25,559
Speaker 1: I'm a country boy from Louisiana and we've been married.

1684
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:30,040
Speaker 1: Tomorrow September to twenty two, will be forty six years.

1685
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:34,920
Speaker 1: Can't get her to even go out and look at

1686
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:37,560
Speaker 1: the dogs when I get a new one, but she

1687
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:40,360
Speaker 1: gives me support. So I do all the rabbit cooking.

1688
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:42,519
Speaker 1: I do all the rabbit cleaning. I have a special

1689
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 1: freezer just for a whild game, because a lot of

1690
01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:52,280
Speaker 1: the people I take rabbit hunting give me other games elk, moose, dear,

1691
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:56,720
Speaker 1: whatever they hunt while waterfowl, and we eat some of it.

1692
01:36:57,560 --> 01:37:03,160
Speaker 1: But there are loads of people that I supply rabbit

1693
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 1: every year. I have names to give rabbits in my

1694
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:11,479
Speaker 1: cut of the take, in my group we'll get over

1695
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:15,200
Speaker 1: two hundred, and in my take I usually get about

1696
01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:19,000
Speaker 1: forty forty five. So some guys come just to shoot

1697
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:23,439
Speaker 1: the hunt, shoot the breeze. Some guys take one or two.

1698
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:26,160
Speaker 1: Some guys said, well, I don't want many, so whatever

1699
01:37:26,240 --> 01:37:29,360
Speaker 1: they don't take, I take because I have a market

1700
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:32,559
Speaker 1: for giving them away. I don't sell anything. I don't

1701
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,439
Speaker 1: expect anything in return. All I expect is to thank you.

1702
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:37,240
Speaker 1: And and if I don't get that or a big

1703
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:39,560
Speaker 1: smile on your face, and that's thank you enough. So

1704
01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:43,600
Speaker 1: there are lots of older people who lived in the

1705
01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 1: country of Maryland, Southern Maryland, and some city folks North Carolina,

1706
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:52,960
Speaker 1: South Carolina, they did it. Uh, their family hunted and

1707
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,400
Speaker 1: they can't get them anymore. And they say, hey at church.

1708
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:57,719
Speaker 1: I got a lot of people say you take rabbits

1709
01:37:57,760 --> 01:38:00,679
Speaker 1: to church. I say sure, I said, all the old people.

1710
01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:02,519
Speaker 1: I said, well, what mans are you going to tomorrow?

1711
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:06,360
Speaker 1: We're cat like And I bring him a rabbit. It's clean,

1712
01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:12,519
Speaker 1: it's wrapped, it's label and um, they enjoy it. And

1713
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:15,960
Speaker 1: and that's my treat to them. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, now,

1714
01:38:16,040 --> 01:38:18,800
Speaker 1: and get people. You know, there's a lot of people

1715
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:20,599
Speaker 1: like you said, you can't go out and do That's right.

1716
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:22,400
Speaker 1: They don't have place to go or time to go,

1717
01:38:22,600 --> 01:38:25,920
Speaker 1: or not physically physically unable to go and share it

1718
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:30,680
Speaker 1: with him. That's awesome. So you you're from Louisiana, you

1719
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:34,120
Speaker 1: found your way here to Maryland, and we'll get into that,

1720
01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:35,479
Speaker 1: but I want to just kind of go back to

1721
01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:38,920
Speaker 1: your upbring and when you first started hunting, because I

1722
01:38:38,960 --> 01:38:41,439
Speaker 1: know we talked a little bit about swamp rabbits, which

1723
01:38:41,439 --> 01:38:45,800
Speaker 1: I thought was fun. Fun term. When did you first

1724
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:48,639
Speaker 1: start hunting? And when did you first start rabbit hunt?

1725
01:38:48,680 --> 01:38:50,960
Speaker 1: What was the thing that got you excited about it? Well?

1726
01:38:51,479 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 1: Growing up, we grew up we were share croppers in Louisiana,

1727
01:38:55,439 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 1: so we lived on somebody else laying my dad and

1728
01:38:58,120 --> 01:39:03,960
Speaker 1: my uncle next door farm and when we would go hunting, um,

1729
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:07,760
Speaker 1: you just walked behind the house into the fields and

1730
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:12,040
Speaker 1: you would hunt there. I started about eight years old,

1731
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:17,040
Speaker 1: mainly following my big older brother who was eleven years

1732
01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:19,800
Speaker 1: older than me. He loved to hunt and they would

1733
01:39:19,880 --> 01:39:22,479
Speaker 1: let me follow him. The rule was I would walk

1734
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:24,439
Speaker 1: right behind him. I didn't have a shot GUNNA had

1735
01:39:24,439 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 1: a bb gun, and most time nothing. I carried whatever

1736
01:39:27,479 --> 01:39:31,360
Speaker 1: he killed. And I learned that way, and as time

1737
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 1: got I got older and teenager. There was a friend

1738
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:39,800
Speaker 1: who had a couple of dogs, and uh we hunted.

1739
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:42,439
Speaker 1: Were hunted in the cotton fields and on the ditches

1740
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:45,040
Speaker 1: and in the woods, and we'd get cotton tails in

1741
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:47,320
Speaker 1: the field and then if you wanted the big rabbits,

1742
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:49,600
Speaker 1: you're going in the woods, in the deep woods, and

1743
01:39:49,720 --> 01:39:53,040
Speaker 1: which was only probably half a mile walk and we

1744
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:57,000
Speaker 1: we would get one or two, but we never had

1745
01:39:57,439 --> 01:40:01,360
Speaker 1: being poor, we never had quality dog dogs. Okay, we

1746
01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:05,160
Speaker 1: had your dogs that could hunt rabbits too, and and

1747
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:07,679
Speaker 1: do a lot of other things. Uh. These were multi

1748
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:12,679
Speaker 1: purpose dogs, so they would get something. And then I hunted,

1749
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:16,120
Speaker 1: uh throughout my teen years and after college in in

1750
01:40:16,240 --> 01:40:21,639
Speaker 1: Baton Rouge, I moved here in seventy two, got married

1751
01:40:22,280 --> 01:40:26,920
Speaker 1: and started hunting a little bit here with my wife

1752
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:31,200
Speaker 1: too uncle, and we'd go down southern Maryland. We had

1753
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:33,000
Speaker 1: a couple of little small spots, would get one or

1754
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:37,200
Speaker 1: two rabbits. Then when the kids started coming, I quit,

1755
01:40:38,120 --> 01:40:42,680
Speaker 1: and then as they got older and in college in

1756
01:40:42,920 --> 01:40:46,519
Speaker 1: in upper high school, I started back. So I told

1757
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:48,840
Speaker 1: my wife, I said, you know, I was relying on

1758
01:40:48,920 --> 01:40:52,160
Speaker 1: another fellow who wasn't too dependable and and didn't have

1759
01:40:52,240 --> 01:40:55,599
Speaker 1: good dogs. I liked this so much, I'm gonna start

1760
01:40:55,720 --> 01:41:00,000
Speaker 1: doing it. So I had an old truck that my family.

1761
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:02,120
Speaker 1: It was our dad's, and when he passed they gave

1762
01:41:02,200 --> 01:41:04,240
Speaker 1: it to me and I brought it up from Louisiana

1763
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:07,200
Speaker 1: and we build a little common dog box. I got

1764
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:11,160
Speaker 1: some dogs, made all of the mistakes, bought the wrong dogs,

1765
01:41:11,880 --> 01:41:16,639
Speaker 1: the dogs by. First I bought a dog name um Rowdy,

1766
01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 1: and then I had one name Slim or something like that. Well,

1767
01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:23,560
Speaker 1: I didn't know much about dogs, and the guy that

1768
01:41:23,720 --> 01:41:26,479
Speaker 1: sold them to me, he took me for a ride

1769
01:41:27,080 --> 01:41:30,400
Speaker 1: because I just wanted two dogs, and he told me

1770
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:34,760
Speaker 1: one dog that was slower and a fast dog. Now

1771
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:38,639
Speaker 1: I know what I know. Now that's a bad mixture.

1772
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:42,000
Speaker 1: You want all of your dogs the same speed. You

1773
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:45,439
Speaker 1: want them all medium, all slow, are all fast. You

1774
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:47,880
Speaker 1: want them when they're running to be in a bunch

1775
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:50,439
Speaker 1: together on the scent line. You don't want one to

1776
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:54,400
Speaker 1: be here in won fifty yards away. So I made

1777
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:57,519
Speaker 1: all of the mistakes, bought the wrong dog dogs, and

1778
01:41:57,600 --> 01:41:59,519
Speaker 1: then I got some other dogs, and I didn't know

1779
01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 1: the ran deer, so I lost dogs dogs spent the

1780
01:42:04,160 --> 01:42:08,120
Speaker 1: night in the in the woods. So gradually I started

1781
01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:12,040
Speaker 1: talking to some veteran hunters that I trusted, who raised

1782
01:42:12,120 --> 01:42:14,760
Speaker 1: dogs and bread dogs, and they gave me a lot

1783
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:17,800
Speaker 1: of tips, and I started reading, and I started using

1784
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:21,719
Speaker 1: better judgment of people that are bought dogs from. Because

1785
01:42:22,040 --> 01:42:24,400
Speaker 1: I don't breathe my own dogs. I bomb when they're

1786
01:42:25,120 --> 01:42:29,120
Speaker 1: started one to two years. So they gave me loads

1787
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:33,720
Speaker 1: of advice, which I I'm proud to have received this

1788
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:36,759
Speaker 1: advice from them. They told me all of the dudes

1789
01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:40,680
Speaker 1: and don't And I learned from my errors, and I

1790
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:44,120
Speaker 1: learned how to break dogs using it was try tronics

1791
01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:46,960
Speaker 1: at the time, the training collars. Some people call them

1792
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:51,160
Speaker 1: the shock callers now garment, and I used those faithfully,

1793
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:56,200
Speaker 1: and I put them on live, dear and break them.

1794
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:59,919
Speaker 1: Now I don't have to because the deers have invaded

1795
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:02,280
Speaker 1: the neighborhood where we live. So I can break them

1796
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:05,160
Speaker 1: right here in the yard. And he's got your dogs

1797
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:07,360
Speaker 1: chasing deer in the in the yard he had the deers.

1798
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:09,680
Speaker 1: The deer is coming to yard to eat all the

1799
01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:14,240
Speaker 1: flowers and things of that sort. So recently last year,

1800
01:43:14,240 --> 01:43:17,559
Speaker 1: I built an eight foot fence around my vegetable garden

1801
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:20,040
Speaker 1: so we can have vegetable. It looks like a prison camp.

1802
01:43:20,520 --> 01:43:23,040
Speaker 1: All I need is a little towel on there. But

1803
01:43:23,320 --> 01:43:26,559
Speaker 1: this is a multipurpose dogs that you're trading your dogs

1804
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:29,160
Speaker 1: on deer, keeping them hell out of your yard. At

1805
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:32,320
Speaker 1: the same time, well, the deer. Now that the dogs

1806
01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:35,280
Speaker 1: are in the pin. The dogs, only one out of

1807
01:43:35,439 --> 01:43:38,360
Speaker 1: six will look at the deer and bark. The other

1808
01:43:38,439 --> 01:43:41,400
Speaker 1: five go about their business, and the deer know that

1809
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:43,719
Speaker 1: they can't get out, so they go about their business.

1810
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:47,679
Speaker 1: They just trot along. But I learned from these people,

1811
01:43:48,320 --> 01:43:52,840
Speaker 1: so all of this valuable knowledge. Now I know how

1812
01:43:52,920 --> 01:43:56,640
Speaker 1: to select dogs and have known for many years. So

1813
01:43:57,240 --> 01:44:00,599
Speaker 1: in the last fifteen or twenty years. Twenty years, maybe

1814
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:05,400
Speaker 1: I have not had one dog run off. Deers will

1815
01:44:05,439 --> 01:44:07,920
Speaker 1: get up in front of him, will cross the track,

1816
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:10,479
Speaker 1: will be laying in the brush. They'll see the deer.

1817
01:44:10,560 --> 01:44:13,720
Speaker 1: They paid no mine because you know that deer scent

1818
01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:16,719
Speaker 1: is much hotter than a rabbit sense, so they don't

1819
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:19,559
Speaker 1: paid any mine, and we keep hunting. So when they

1820
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:22,519
Speaker 1: go in the brush and they start barking, I don't

1821
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:24,920
Speaker 1: have to panic that a big bucket is gonna run

1822
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:27,240
Speaker 1: out the other side. And they're gonna run, because if

1823
01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:30,439
Speaker 1: they chase deer, then they're no good to us as

1824
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:34,280
Speaker 1: rabbit hunters. And a deer will run straight for miles.

1825
01:44:34,720 --> 01:44:37,479
Speaker 1: The dog will if he survived the highways that they're

1826
01:44:37,479 --> 01:44:40,800
Speaker 1: gonna cross, then he's no good for you because you

1827
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:43,800
Speaker 1: don't trust him. But now when I go with six

1828
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:47,880
Speaker 1: come back and and guys will tell me Charles the

1829
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:50,439
Speaker 1: deer just got up. What do you want to do?

1830
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:53,280
Speaker 1: I say, don't do anything. They're not gonna chase him.

1831
01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:56,200
Speaker 1: Just wait for that rabbit to come back. And and

1832
01:44:56,360 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 1: it happens over and over. But when you pick quality

1833
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:07,400
Speaker 1: dogs from quality people, because um, a lot of guys

1834
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:10,120
Speaker 1: dog tree, they'll tell you that this dog will do

1835
01:45:10,280 --> 01:45:14,920
Speaker 1: all sorts of things and so forth. And you've got

1836
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:17,519
Speaker 1: a deer running, You've got a dog that's gunshine everything.

1837
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:20,640
Speaker 1: So I buy quality dogs, I work them, and I

1838
01:45:20,760 --> 01:45:23,640
Speaker 1: buy my dogs only in the summertime so that I

1839
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:27,280
Speaker 1: have time to train them and let them get used

1840
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:30,320
Speaker 1: to my voice each other and so forth. Because the

1841
01:45:30,439 --> 01:45:35,800
Speaker 1: season starts always in Maryland the first Saturday in November.

1842
01:45:36,640 --> 01:45:40,840
Speaker 1: So I'll buy dogs in April, May, June and work

1843
01:45:40,880 --> 01:45:44,040
Speaker 1: them and train them, and when the season come they're

1844
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:46,840
Speaker 1: in shape. And so I don't have that problem. I

1845
01:45:46,880 --> 01:45:50,439
Speaker 1: have none but rabbit runners only. And I've seen it

1846
01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:55,439
Speaker 1: in action. It is unbelievable. Let's go back, uh, because

1847
01:45:55,479 --> 01:45:58,760
Speaker 1: we'll we'll talk dogs forever here. But when you were

1848
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 1: you mentioned a few things. You came up poor. Yes, um,

1849
01:46:02,960 --> 01:46:06,439
Speaker 1: you came up it seemingly close to your family, and

1850
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:10,760
Speaker 1: you came up hunting. You feel like, uh, how that

1851
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:13,320
Speaker 1: shaped you as a person? You know, how you became.

1852
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:15,960
Speaker 1: You know, you've been married for we say forty eight years,

1853
01:46:17,040 --> 01:46:19,559
Speaker 1: six years when I get that number correct. Your wife

1854
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:21,720
Speaker 1: cooks the hell of a breakfast. You probably if we

1855
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:24,519
Speaker 1: just got finished that, I'm sure you've eat many of those.

1856
01:46:25,200 --> 01:46:31,280
Speaker 1: Um but it seems like, yeah, kids, wife, you have

1857
01:46:32,400 --> 01:46:36,160
Speaker 1: a good life. Everything has turned out well, you know,

1858
01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:40,200
Speaker 1: very happy and productive. And I always try to look

1859
01:46:40,280 --> 01:46:42,360
Speaker 1: back and and how you were raised and what that

1860
01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:44,880
Speaker 1: might have given you. Do you have any insight as

1861
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:47,880
Speaker 1: to your upbringing and what it meant? Well. We were

1862
01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:51,280
Speaker 1: raised in a in a Christian family in South Louisiana.

1863
01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:54,040
Speaker 1: Most of the people are Catholic. There are other faiths

1864
01:46:54,080 --> 01:46:57,639
Speaker 1: there and they're good people. They taught us the value

1865
01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:01,240
Speaker 1: of working together. We lived on a farm, so if

1866
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:03,680
Speaker 1: we finished early, we helped the next guy and my

1867
01:47:03,800 --> 01:47:05,599
Speaker 1: uncle next to them. We helped people up and down

1868
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:10,280
Speaker 1: the road, and they helped us. And Daddy grew a

1869
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:14,120
Speaker 1: large vegetable garden. When I mean a large vegetable garden.

1870
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:16,639
Speaker 1: He wasn't selling. He grew and we kept wondering, why

1871
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:20,720
Speaker 1: are we growing all of this stuff? Well back then

1872
01:47:21,280 --> 01:47:24,320
Speaker 1: we didn't have freezes, so the old mason jars. We

1873
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:27,840
Speaker 1: kenned everything and what we what we didn't use, we

1874
01:47:27,920 --> 01:47:31,600
Speaker 1: gave away. And I was the youngest of seven, so

1875
01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 1: I got the luxury of peaking when my older brothers

1876
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:39,160
Speaker 1: and sisters started leaving and so forth. So we were

1877
01:47:39,280 --> 01:47:42,840
Speaker 1: raised up in in two family and a mother and

1878
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:49,240
Speaker 1: a father um, and we were raised up in Catholic school.

1879
01:47:49,280 --> 01:47:53,400
Speaker 1: We went to Catholic elementary and then on the public school.

1880
01:47:54,080 --> 01:47:56,720
Speaker 1: But we were raised with good Christian values that you

1881
01:47:56,920 --> 01:47:59,880
Speaker 1: help people and you do for people, and that's your

1882
01:48:00,040 --> 01:48:02,400
Speaker 1: thank you, and that you enjoyment. And that sticks with

1883
01:48:02,560 --> 01:48:05,320
Speaker 1: me today because I do some of the same thing,

1884
01:48:05,400 --> 01:48:08,360
Speaker 1: even though I hated it. When we grew all those

1885
01:48:08,400 --> 01:48:11,160
Speaker 1: big gardens and Daddy with somebody would come and there

1886
01:48:11,200 --> 01:48:14,000
Speaker 1: were certain people who came by. Then you win. The

1887
01:48:14,200 --> 01:48:17,439
Speaker 1: sweet corn made, then you when the figs made, then

1888
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:20,320
Speaker 1: you win. This mayed and the Pecans were at the countries,

1889
01:48:20,680 --> 01:48:22,920
Speaker 1: and being the youngest, I got to go in that

1890
01:48:23,040 --> 01:48:25,840
Speaker 1: hot sun and go get these things and box these things.

1891
01:48:25,880 --> 01:48:28,280
Speaker 1: But I didn't know it. In reality, I was enjoying it.

1892
01:48:28,520 --> 01:48:31,640
Speaker 1: I do the same thing today. I grow garden. And

1893
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:35,400
Speaker 1: many of my hunting friends grow big gardens. There's a

1894
01:48:35,479 --> 01:48:39,160
Speaker 1: guy that grow greens and he plants them for the

1895
01:48:39,320 --> 01:48:41,760
Speaker 1: deer so he can stick an arrow on him because

1896
01:48:41,760 --> 01:48:44,800
Speaker 1: he can't shoot a gun where he lives, and so

1897
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:47,960
Speaker 1: he plants the greens for the last four or five years.

1898
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:50,880
Speaker 1: He doesn't sell them, he doesn't give him away. Guess

1899
01:48:50,920 --> 01:48:52,519
Speaker 1: what he does. He tells me, Charles, going there and

1900
01:48:52,600 --> 01:48:54,880
Speaker 1: take him, because you give him the people. And we,

1901
01:48:55,160 --> 01:48:58,000
Speaker 1: my cousin and I will go and we'll pick two

1902
01:48:58,040 --> 01:49:00,280
Speaker 1: pickup trucks load and we'll give to every bout and

1903
01:49:00,320 --> 01:49:03,320
Speaker 1: their brother will take him to church, to his church,

1904
01:49:03,439 --> 01:49:05,080
Speaker 1: to my church and the people and we can. So

1905
01:49:05,160 --> 01:49:08,599
Speaker 1: we're giving back the way we were taught to give back.

1906
01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:11,400
Speaker 1: And his old country boar from Maryland too. So those

1907
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:17,480
Speaker 1: family values stick today. And when where we live, everybody

1908
01:49:17,600 --> 01:49:22,840
Speaker 1: knew us. Okay, the races were separate, Okay, predominantly white

1909
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:25,880
Speaker 1: and black. We will creole. My folks spoke creole. I

1910
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:28,439
Speaker 1: know a little bit of it. But they have that

1911
01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:32,080
Speaker 1: intrinsic value that you help you, fella man, regardless. And

1912
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:36,800
Speaker 1: I do the same thing today. Uh. I give people.

1913
01:49:36,920 --> 01:49:39,479
Speaker 1: I give service to the church. I give service to people.

1914
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:42,799
Speaker 1: I have a lot of older friends, I mean older

1915
01:49:42,840 --> 01:49:45,960
Speaker 1: friends in the upper nineties and close to a hundred

1916
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 1: and one man is nine, and we still I take

1917
01:49:50,040 --> 01:49:53,719
Speaker 1: him rabbits twice a year. The last last two hunts,

1918
01:49:53,800 --> 01:49:56,160
Speaker 1: he wrote on a little cart, and he just come

1919
01:49:56,240 --> 01:50:00,120
Speaker 1: to here on a little John, dear little John. I'm

1920
01:50:00,160 --> 01:50:03,280
Speaker 1: their four wheel of things, and he rides along and

1921
01:50:03,400 --> 01:50:06,400
Speaker 1: he hunts, and we've become friends in three years, and

1922
01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:10,839
Speaker 1: he at ninety three. He grows a big truck garden.

1923
01:50:11,479 --> 01:50:14,240
Speaker 1: So he sells everything fifty cents a pound. So I

1924
01:50:14,360 --> 01:50:18,360
Speaker 1: go sometime and I'll buy a truckloads. You'd be surprised

1925
01:50:18,360 --> 01:50:20,439
Speaker 1: how much stuff you can buy for fifty dollars. And

1926
01:50:20,479 --> 01:50:22,920
Speaker 1: I give it away and so forth. So I even

1927
01:50:22,960 --> 01:50:25,839
Speaker 1: take something to the We have nun's sisters at the convent,

1928
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:28,160
Speaker 1: so I take stuff to them. They tell me they

1929
01:50:28,240 --> 01:50:30,519
Speaker 1: like deer. So I got some friends who are gonna

1930
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:33,000
Speaker 1: who gives me a couple of deers, and I give

1931
01:50:33,040 --> 01:50:36,120
Speaker 1: it away, and so i'm I said, And they're from

1932
01:50:36,160 --> 01:50:39,360
Speaker 1: all over the world. They're they're about twelve of them there,

1933
01:50:39,400 --> 01:50:42,000
Speaker 1: but they're about ten different ethnic groups. And they move

1934
01:50:42,080 --> 01:50:44,519
Speaker 1: them in and out. So they enjoyed. I give them

1935
01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:47,320
Speaker 1: all kinds of vegetables and so forth. You spread the

1936
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:51,799
Speaker 1: gospel of wild game, oh, wild game and vegetable and service.

1937
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:56,240
Speaker 1: People call me and and so say, Charles, you have this.

1938
01:50:56,360 --> 01:50:58,040
Speaker 1: Can you tell me why? I said, I'll get you something.

1939
01:50:58,320 --> 01:50:59,680
Speaker 1: And I get in and they said, well, what can

1940
01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:02,639
Speaker 1: I pay? You said, there's no money. There's no money.

1941
01:51:02,680 --> 01:51:05,960
Speaker 1: You give back. When you give back, it comes back

1942
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:09,559
Speaker 1: to you. And and we'll talk about that in detail.

1943
01:51:10,160 --> 01:51:15,880
Speaker 1: How um, the many people who have invited mina hunt

1944
01:51:15,880 --> 01:51:18,960
Speaker 1: on their land. It will get to that too, because

1945
01:51:18,960 --> 01:51:20,639
Speaker 1: I want to kind of go in order here. Okay,

1946
01:51:20,720 --> 01:51:23,840
Speaker 1: go ahead, But but there is this amazing thing that

1947
01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:26,040
Speaker 1: you do. You said that a lot of people think

1948
01:51:26,080 --> 01:51:28,760
Speaker 1: you're an outfitter, right, but I remember you went well.

1949
01:51:28,760 --> 01:51:30,320
Speaker 1: When I mentioned we hunted the other you gave me

1950
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:34,000
Speaker 1: your business card and it says it's to some effect

1951
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:37,600
Speaker 1: like Charles the rabbit Hunter Rodney, and it says the

1952
01:51:37,720 --> 01:51:40,559
Speaker 1: only game in town for me. It's the only game

1953
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:42,439
Speaker 1: in town for me because I don't I don't want

1954
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:45,200
Speaker 1: to insult any of the other hunters. But this is

1955
01:51:45,280 --> 01:51:48,880
Speaker 1: all that I do, which is wonderful and it did.

1956
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:51,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't say like call me for hunts. It doesn't

1957
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:53,920
Speaker 1: say an outfitter, a guy, there's nothing of that. You literally,

1958
01:51:54,240 --> 01:51:59,559
Speaker 1: for no money, go hunting rabbits with anybody who desires

1959
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:01,840
Speaker 1: to do so, and that well, you'll take the time

1960
01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:04,679
Speaker 1: to do it. And I tell people, as my wife

1961
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:07,960
Speaker 1: made the card up, she said, you can call started company.

1962
01:52:07,960 --> 01:52:09,640
Speaker 1: She said, you need a card so these guys can

1963
01:52:09,680 --> 01:52:11,559
Speaker 1: call you. So it's got to sell in the house

1964
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:14,680
Speaker 1: them and the email thing on there. And this was

1965
01:52:14,760 --> 01:52:19,719
Speaker 1: way before texting. So I passed them out to various people,

1966
01:52:20,439 --> 01:52:24,519
Speaker 1: and um, a lot of people say, are you an outfitter? Well,

1967
01:52:25,080 --> 01:52:26,840
Speaker 1: how do I get on your schedule? What do you

1968
01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:29,599
Speaker 1: try to say? Hold up, let me clear this up.

1969
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:34,800
Speaker 1: I am not an outfitter. I'm just a guy that love.

1970
01:52:35,080 --> 01:52:39,200
Speaker 1: I'm passionate about rabbit hunting and having good dogs, and

1971
01:52:39,320 --> 01:52:43,479
Speaker 1: I enjoy people, and I meet people easy people. We

1972
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:47,000
Speaker 1: we tend to take to each other. I can tell

1973
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:49,960
Speaker 1: the ones that's laying a lot of bs out okay.

1974
01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:53,040
Speaker 1: And I don't hunt with half crazy people. If if

1975
01:52:53,080 --> 01:52:55,920
Speaker 1: they talk foolish, they won't get invited. And if they

1976
01:52:56,040 --> 01:52:58,559
Speaker 1: come and hunt one time and they do something wrong

1977
01:52:59,439 --> 01:53:03,840
Speaker 1: that's not uh good hunting mannerism. Then they're on their

1978
01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:07,080
Speaker 1: first and they last, and they only hunt. But I'm

1979
01:53:07,160 --> 01:53:10,800
Speaker 1: a good judge of people. And some of the people

1980
01:53:10,880 --> 01:53:15,080
Speaker 1: I've been hunting with for ten twelve years, and they've

1981
01:53:15,160 --> 01:53:19,960
Speaker 1: bring many of their friends and family members and so forth, uh,

1982
01:53:20,400 --> 01:53:23,400
Speaker 1: and most of them have some of the same hunting times.

1983
01:53:23,479 --> 01:53:27,120
Speaker 1: It's like in February when the water fouling deer season

1984
01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:33,240
Speaker 1: is over. Um, the four saturdays in February and Presidency,

1985
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:40,080
Speaker 1: they belong to the same four people, and nobody can

1986
01:53:40,160 --> 01:53:42,720
Speaker 1: break that lineup. They enjoy it so much they won't

1987
01:53:42,760 --> 01:53:45,280
Speaker 1: give it up. That's what it's about. I mean, it's

1988
01:53:45,400 --> 01:53:48,160
Speaker 1: it's I think it goes back to what you're saying,

1989
01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:52,959
Speaker 1: having a garden, eating what you kill, having a community

1990
01:53:53,040 --> 01:53:55,880
Speaker 1: people that share those same values enough to the fact

1991
01:53:55,880 --> 01:53:58,200
Speaker 1: they want to come and get your vegetables, but they

1992
01:53:58,280 --> 01:54:01,200
Speaker 1: know they're they're ready to be luck. That's just a

1993
01:54:01,800 --> 01:54:04,439
Speaker 1: life of giving, right, a life of sharing, a life

1994
01:54:04,520 --> 01:54:07,120
Speaker 1: of you. You become passionate about something, the first thing

1995
01:54:07,160 --> 01:54:08,760
Speaker 1: you think of is to share it with people, right.

1996
01:54:08,920 --> 01:54:12,600
Speaker 1: And we grew up that way. We shared, Um, we

1997
01:54:12,760 --> 01:54:16,679
Speaker 1: shared with many people and there were people just as poor,

1998
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:20,360
Speaker 1: poor as us or poor and the rich people we

1999
01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:22,240
Speaker 1: knew who they were. They were to big land on

2000
01:54:22,400 --> 01:54:26,200
Speaker 1: us who want all the land. Uh. And you know

2001
01:54:26,280 --> 01:54:29,439
Speaker 1: they didn't congregate around you because you are of that

2002
01:54:29,640 --> 01:54:34,520
Speaker 1: other class, whether you're black or white. But um, you

2003
01:54:34,600 --> 01:54:38,160
Speaker 1: know that's how it was, and the value was instilled

2004
01:54:38,480 --> 01:54:42,280
Speaker 1: in me. Two treat people the way you want to

2005
01:54:42,320 --> 01:54:46,240
Speaker 1: be treated. Yeah, and it works well, yeah, it seems to.

2006
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 1: So you met your I want to hear about just

2007
01:54:48,680 --> 01:54:51,440
Speaker 1: because your life or your wife is as lovely and

2008
01:54:51,800 --> 01:54:53,080
Speaker 1: and I just want to hear about it. It's your

2009
01:54:53,080 --> 01:54:54,640
Speaker 1: anniversary coming up, so I want to hear about how

2010
01:54:54,680 --> 01:54:57,280
Speaker 1: you guys met because that's about the reason you came

2011
01:54:57,320 --> 01:55:03,120
Speaker 1: to Maryland. Well, my brother recently, he's a Catholic priest.

2012
01:55:03,160 --> 01:55:07,440
Speaker 1: He recently celebrated his fiftieth anniversary as a priest in

2013
01:55:07,680 --> 01:55:11,839
Speaker 1: May of this year. So he was the assistant pastor

2014
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:17,760
Speaker 1: after he was ordained. He was ordained in sixty eight. So, uh,

2015
01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:26,120
Speaker 1: I came up in December or of seventy to visit

2016
01:55:26,200 --> 01:55:31,440
Speaker 1: with him, and he was assistant pastor of a church

2017
01:55:31,560 --> 01:55:35,080
Speaker 1: here in Washington, d C. St. Luke's Catholic church and

2018
01:55:35,320 --> 01:55:39,880
Speaker 1: my wife uh worked there as a student, typing and

2019
01:55:40,120 --> 01:55:43,520
Speaker 1: answering the phone on weekend. So I caught her eye,

2020
01:55:44,480 --> 01:55:46,120
Speaker 1: but she didn't want to have anything to do with

2021
01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:51,240
Speaker 1: the first year. So I had my hair long at

2022
01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:54,360
Speaker 1: the time, and tell you the truth, I had been

2023
01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:56,680
Speaker 1: out with some of the local boys and we were

2024
01:55:56,760 --> 01:56:01,560
Speaker 1: drinking uh we call it pluck, she wine and gin,

2025
01:56:02,080 --> 01:56:07,160
Speaker 1: and my eyes was a little red and she oh,

2026
01:56:07,280 --> 01:56:11,200
Speaker 1: I had a big, big, wild looking after back the time,

2027
01:56:11,880 --> 01:56:19,040
Speaker 1: UM quite different. Yeah, we're talking. We're talking seventies and

2028
01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:21,400
Speaker 1: we were going through all of the cultural changes, in

2029
01:56:21,480 --> 01:56:24,120
Speaker 1: the cultural shocks. So she didn't want to have anything

2030
01:56:24,160 --> 01:56:26,720
Speaker 1: to do it. But I like what I saw, and

2031
01:56:27,800 --> 01:56:30,520
Speaker 1: the next year I said, I'm going back. So I

2032
01:56:30,600 --> 01:56:33,760
Speaker 1: went back on semester Christmas break the next year, and

2033
01:56:34,040 --> 01:56:37,920
Speaker 1: I cut my hair and I didn't drink anything, so

2034
01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:43,680
Speaker 1: my eyes, it was all intentional by me. And she

2035
01:56:44,000 --> 01:56:48,560
Speaker 1: claimed she didn't have a boyfriend. Then dad broke up,

2036
01:56:48,640 --> 01:56:51,920
Speaker 1: so she was looking and so we got to talking

2037
01:56:51,960 --> 01:56:55,520
Speaker 1: and visiting. Then we corresponding and visiting, and after college,

2038
01:56:56,040 --> 01:56:58,800
Speaker 1: I came back in the next summer and we got

2039
01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:03,240
Speaker 1: married in September. So so that's the short end of

2040
01:57:03,360 --> 01:57:05,800
Speaker 1: the of the love story. And so what did I

2041
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:10,200
Speaker 1: move here? Because there were jobs here and in Baton Rouge,

2042
01:57:10,360 --> 01:57:13,760
Speaker 1: most of the jobs were kind of menial, working in

2043
01:57:13,840 --> 01:57:16,160
Speaker 1: the chemical plants, and I never wanted to work in

2044
01:57:16,200 --> 01:57:19,720
Speaker 1: the chemical plants. I knew many people who did that work.

2045
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:22,520
Speaker 1: I said, I can do better. So I came here

2046
01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:24,960
Speaker 1: and I got a job in the federal government down

2047
01:57:25,040 --> 01:57:28,520
Speaker 1: at the Naval Arden and Station in Indian Head, Maryland.

2048
01:57:29,440 --> 01:57:32,040
Speaker 1: Worked there a few years and then work some other

2049
01:57:32,120 --> 01:57:34,760
Speaker 1: federal agencies. And she was working for the Navy Department.

2050
01:57:35,480 --> 01:57:40,040
Speaker 1: And we progress along the promotion chain and did well.

2051
01:57:40,160 --> 01:57:43,560
Speaker 1: We both ended up in human resources. So that's one

2052
01:57:43,600 --> 01:57:47,240
Speaker 1: of my other qualities. I know people from a human

2053
01:57:47,360 --> 01:57:54,000
Speaker 1: resource standard. We hired, promoted, classified, did pay changes. Um.

2054
01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:57,720
Speaker 1: I worked six years in Equal Employment Opportunity where I

2055
01:57:57,800 --> 01:58:00,960
Speaker 1: dealt with all the people's problems to emination and all

2056
01:58:01,000 --> 01:58:03,760
Speaker 1: of the things associated with that not being treated fairly,

2057
01:58:04,240 --> 01:58:07,840
Speaker 1: perception or otherwise. So I got to know people well

2058
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:13,160
Speaker 1: in handling problems, hiring, firing, all of that counseling. So

2059
01:58:13,640 --> 01:58:17,000
Speaker 1: I got to know people quite well. People people in

2060
01:58:17,080 --> 01:58:19,960
Speaker 1: a part of people. And it all stems back to

2061
01:58:20,160 --> 01:58:26,360
Speaker 1: my upbringing, so um, and then we just we progress on.

2062
01:58:26,600 --> 01:58:30,040
Speaker 1: We both did about thirty plus years in the federal government.

2063
01:58:30,120 --> 01:58:32,839
Speaker 1: We've been retired for a few years. I've been retired

2064
01:58:32,920 --> 01:58:38,200
Speaker 1: for fifteen years and she twelve years. And we raised

2065
01:58:38,240 --> 01:58:40,640
Speaker 1: our three children in this house. Matter of fact, the

2066
01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:44,120
Speaker 1: last one who's thirty seven, she was three days old

2067
01:58:44,160 --> 01:58:47,560
Speaker 1: when we moved into this house. And they're all gone.

2068
01:58:47,720 --> 01:58:53,720
Speaker 1: So uh, we're comfortable, and we give thanks to God

2069
01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:55,760
Speaker 1: all the time for all of our blessing. We have

2070
01:58:56,160 --> 01:59:01,360
Speaker 1: three beautiful kids. They each have two children, and they

2071
01:59:01,440 --> 01:59:06,879
Speaker 1: all went to Catholic elementary, Catholic high school, and college.

2072
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:10,960
Speaker 1: And two of them have advanced degrees. So and they're

2073
01:59:11,000 --> 01:59:14,840
Speaker 1: doing quite well with their families. So as they say,

2074
01:59:14,880 --> 01:59:17,320
Speaker 1: the apple don't fall far from the tree, so they

2075
01:59:17,400 --> 01:59:20,560
Speaker 1: have they have good quality and good skills to good

2076
01:59:20,720 --> 01:59:24,080
Speaker 1: so well. I mean what strikes me in that whole

2077
01:59:24,280 --> 01:59:27,080
Speaker 1: thing is, you know, you grew up in segregated Louisiana

2078
01:59:27,720 --> 01:59:31,640
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, and then you move here and you

2079
01:59:32,040 --> 01:59:36,120
Speaker 1: you you're working in human resources and discrimination. What was

2080
01:59:36,200 --> 01:59:38,280
Speaker 1: that like kind of going from you know, where you

2081
01:59:38,320 --> 01:59:40,800
Speaker 1: grew up. I mean, as you said, that's how you

2082
01:59:40,880 --> 01:59:43,240
Speaker 1: grew up how it was at the time, you didn't

2083
01:59:43,280 --> 01:59:45,520
Speaker 1: think much of it, But then you get to a

2084
01:59:45,560 --> 01:59:47,040
Speaker 1: different part of the world and you start to deal

2085
01:59:47,080 --> 01:59:49,240
Speaker 1: with those problems in a more modern sense. Well, it's

2086
01:59:49,280 --> 01:59:52,840
Speaker 1: it's it's a survival thing, you know. The culture dictated

2087
01:59:52,920 --> 01:59:55,400
Speaker 1: how you behave and how you act, to where you associated.

2088
01:59:55,520 --> 02:00:00,120
Speaker 1: I remember going not being able to go in to

2089
02:00:00,400 --> 02:00:03,360
Speaker 1: many places because the signs were up, and if the

2090
02:00:03,440 --> 02:00:06,400
Speaker 1: signs were not there. There are certain places you knew

2091
02:00:06,720 --> 02:00:09,000
Speaker 1: not to go into and we were taught not to

2092
02:00:09,120 --> 02:00:13,480
Speaker 1: go into, and certain people we couldn't associate with because

2093
02:00:14,040 --> 02:00:18,880
Speaker 1: of how things were. But then here I come into

2094
02:00:18,960 --> 02:00:21,520
Speaker 1: a world where I have to deal with some of

2095
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:25,880
Speaker 1: those same problems as a young adult, in hiring people,

2096
02:00:26,400 --> 02:00:31,520
Speaker 1: hiring people, of treating them fair of any color, any

2097
02:00:31,600 --> 02:00:34,960
Speaker 1: belief they have, and treat them and or. And then

2098
02:00:35,120 --> 02:00:37,520
Speaker 1: later on when I was the equal employment manager at

2099
02:00:37,600 --> 02:00:42,080
Speaker 1: this one agency, UH ensuring that everybody got fair treatment,

2100
02:00:42,440 --> 02:00:47,200
Speaker 1: and going out and defending people who I thought were wrong.

2101
02:00:47,960 --> 02:00:51,520
Speaker 1: And I did that. It probably cost me a few things,

2102
02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:55,520
Speaker 1: because I think I fought some battles that some people

2103
02:00:55,600 --> 02:00:59,440
Speaker 1: thought I shouldn't have fought, but I saw wrong and

2104
02:00:59,560 --> 02:01:03,440
Speaker 1: I try to deliver it and make it right and

2105
02:01:03,560 --> 02:01:06,640
Speaker 1: so forth. And I had some hard cases where some

2106
02:01:06,800 --> 02:01:13,360
Speaker 1: people were uh mislabel for no reason other than somebody

2107
02:01:13,800 --> 02:01:16,880
Speaker 1: down the line with a little bit more power or

2108
02:01:17,040 --> 02:01:22,880
Speaker 1: hump um, but they should be treated differently. In that

2109
02:01:23,000 --> 02:01:25,960
Speaker 1: treatment I thought was unfair, and I spoke out about it,

2110
02:01:26,600 --> 02:01:30,800
Speaker 1: and most of those people were not mind color, and

2111
02:01:30,920 --> 02:01:34,040
Speaker 1: I didn't. I treated everybody as fair as I can be,

2112
02:01:34,160 --> 02:01:37,360
Speaker 1: regardless of who walked in that door. If they came

2113
02:01:37,400 --> 02:01:40,640
Speaker 1: with a problem, I shut the door and I listened,

2114
02:01:42,120 --> 02:01:45,600
Speaker 1: and I took notes, and we took We had certain

2115
02:01:45,680 --> 02:01:48,440
Speaker 1: steps you have to go into into the the equal

2116
02:01:48,480 --> 02:01:50,640
Speaker 1: employment channel. You have to do certain things in a

2117
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:53,920
Speaker 1: step by step in a timely fashion. And I was

2118
02:01:53,960 --> 02:01:58,800
Speaker 1: supposed to be neutral and I try to maintain that neutrality.

2119
02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:01,560
Speaker 1: And when some of them I thought it was wrong,

2120
02:02:01,640 --> 02:02:04,520
Speaker 1: I told them, you're you're not right with this, And

2121
02:02:04,600 --> 02:02:08,000
Speaker 1: when the managers were wrong, all right, I told them too,

2122
02:02:08,200 --> 02:02:10,200
Speaker 1: and I shared with him. So I didn't choose one

2123
02:02:10,280 --> 02:02:14,000
Speaker 1: side or another. But some way, ain't there unknowns to me,

2124
02:02:15,720 --> 02:02:19,200
Speaker 1: I must have helped some of the wrong people or

2125
02:02:19,280 --> 02:02:22,720
Speaker 1: took on some of the issues that the management didn't

2126
02:02:22,800 --> 02:02:26,240
Speaker 1: care about. But they never came back and told me so.

2127
02:02:26,840 --> 02:02:29,600
Speaker 1: But I did what my heart felt. And I think

2128
02:02:29,720 --> 02:02:34,280
Speaker 1: today when I look at people, I don't look at

2129
02:02:34,320 --> 02:02:37,800
Speaker 1: anybody's color. I don't look at anybody's religion, whether they

2130
02:02:37,880 --> 02:02:40,840
Speaker 1: believe or don't believe. And we surely don't talk about

2131
02:02:40,960 --> 02:02:44,120
Speaker 1: politics when we go in the field. In a lot

2132
02:02:44,200 --> 02:02:47,640
Speaker 1: of times, when I take various groups hunting, I always

2133
02:02:47,680 --> 02:02:52,000
Speaker 1: try and take one of my buddies because sometimes we

2134
02:02:52,120 --> 02:02:56,240
Speaker 1: have some new guys that don't understand all of the

2135
02:02:56,320 --> 02:02:59,120
Speaker 1: features of rabbit hunting. So while I'm working the dog,

2136
02:02:59,280 --> 02:03:02,080
Speaker 1: my buddy will help keep them in line. And the

2137
02:03:02,160 --> 02:03:04,240
Speaker 1: main thing with the guys is two of them will

2138
02:03:04,280 --> 02:03:07,600
Speaker 1: get together and start talking. And the one thing I

2139
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:10,720
Speaker 1: find that's a big nuisance now they need to leave

2140
02:03:10,800 --> 02:03:14,360
Speaker 1: those cell phones in the truck. If you got to

2141
02:03:14,440 --> 02:03:16,760
Speaker 1: talk on the phone, then you need to stay at home.

2142
02:03:17,720 --> 02:03:21,760
Speaker 1: So I bring one of my buddies. And most of

2143
02:03:21,800 --> 02:03:26,640
Speaker 1: the people I take hunting, they're not of mind color,

2144
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:30,640
Speaker 1: my race, but that doesn't matter. I tell everybody we're

2145
02:03:30,840 --> 02:03:34,400
Speaker 1: rabbit hunters. Were rabbit hunters. That's what we're doing. We're

2146
02:03:34,440 --> 02:03:36,640
Speaker 1: not doing We're not trying to cure the world of

2147
02:03:36,720 --> 02:03:39,680
Speaker 1: the social ills and all the other things and what

2148
02:03:39,840 --> 02:03:42,240
Speaker 1: you believe and what you know. We're rabbit hunting long

2149
02:03:42,320 --> 02:03:45,560
Speaker 1: as you're safe and you and you're having fun. And

2150
02:03:45,680 --> 02:03:48,800
Speaker 1: I tell them my job simply is with the dogs

2151
02:03:49,200 --> 02:03:52,920
Speaker 1: to get some rabbits up. Hopefully you make a shot

2152
02:03:53,080 --> 02:03:55,760
Speaker 1: or two. Now, if you kill, that's on you. If

2153
02:03:55,800 --> 02:03:58,640
Speaker 1: you can't shoot and you keep missing, then there's a

2154
02:03:58,720 --> 02:04:01,640
Speaker 1: lot of teasing. But my job, the church or avant

2155
02:04:01,680 --> 02:04:07,360
Speaker 1: hunting is open to all as long as you. I

2156
02:04:07,480 --> 02:04:10,360
Speaker 1: guess I grew up on an older All right, that's it.

2157
02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:15,760
Speaker 1: That's all. Episode ninety three in the Books, volume one

2158
02:04:15,800 --> 02:04:20,080
Speaker 1: of the best of I would think posthumously thank Charles

2159
02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:24,240
Speaker 1: Wyman and du Sean for being a part only in

2160
02:04:24,360 --> 02:04:27,600
Speaker 1: my life with this show and hopefully a good part

2161
02:04:27,680 --> 02:04:29,640
Speaker 1: of your life. You learn a lot from where they

2162
02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:32,640
Speaker 1: came from, how they got to be where they are today.

2163
02:04:33,240 --> 02:04:36,960
Speaker 1: So many lessons packed in this show, so many lessons

2164
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:41,040
Speaker 1: packed in those podcasts for you to listen to. And

2165
02:04:41,080 --> 02:04:42,640
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to lead off. We have three

2166
02:04:42,680 --> 02:04:45,760
Speaker 1: more volumes. You say it was right to call them volumes, Phil,

2167
02:04:45,840 --> 02:04:47,920
Speaker 1: I think so, yeah, Yeah, they feel this feels it

2168
02:04:47,960 --> 02:04:50,200
Speaker 1: feels good, it feels meaty, it feels like they got

2169
02:04:50,200 --> 02:04:52,840
Speaker 1: a lot going. Uh. This is the first volume. We're

2170
02:04:52,880 --> 02:04:54,800
Speaker 1: gonna have three more, and we'll probably do more of

2171
02:04:54,840 --> 02:04:56,760
Speaker 1: this because I really enjoyed putting them together. I hope

2172
02:04:56,760 --> 02:04:59,400
Speaker 1: you enjoyed listening to them. But as we get into

2173
02:04:59,400 --> 02:05:03,000
Speaker 1: the Christmas, e man, it's to me, Christmas, Thanksgiving, this

2174
02:05:03,080 --> 02:05:06,640
Speaker 1: holiday seasons about people. It's not about gifts or money

2175
02:05:07,120 --> 02:05:10,240
Speaker 1: or anything like that. It's about people and the people

2176
02:05:10,280 --> 02:05:12,400
Speaker 1: that I value and the people I want to spend

2177
02:05:12,400 --> 02:05:17,240
Speaker 1: time with. And so I don't care about gifts very much.

2178
02:05:17,920 --> 02:05:20,520
Speaker 1: I like to get like whiskey or maybe like a cupcake.

2179
02:05:20,640 --> 02:05:25,000
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool, but I'm not out there valuing that

2180
02:05:25,360 --> 02:05:29,880
Speaker 1: part of the season. I choose who I want to

2181
02:05:29,920 --> 02:05:32,040
Speaker 1: be around, who want to spend my my off time with,

2182
02:05:32,280 --> 02:05:34,720
Speaker 1: and and um, that's what I feel is important and

2183
02:05:34,720 --> 02:05:37,360
Speaker 1: I want to give all I can to those folks

2184
02:05:37,400 --> 02:05:40,880
Speaker 1: when I'm with them. And so hopefully listening to these

2185
02:05:40,920 --> 02:05:44,960
Speaker 1: three gentlemen help you appreciate the special people in your life,

2186
02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:46,920
Speaker 1: the people that have inspired you, the people that have

2187
02:05:47,080 --> 02:05:51,000
Speaker 1: helped your story along. And that's what those these guys

2188
02:05:51,080 --> 02:05:54,480
Speaker 1: have done for me. Uh, what do you think, Phil,

2189
02:05:55,040 --> 02:05:57,480
Speaker 1: what's your You have any reflections on the holiday season?

2190
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:01,360
Speaker 1: Not not so much. No, I just I I know,

2191
02:06:01,640 --> 02:06:03,480
Speaker 1: I think we talked about this in the last podcast,

2192
02:06:03,600 --> 02:06:05,960
Speaker 1: But I know that you are not a huge fan

2193
02:06:06,320 --> 02:06:09,160
Speaker 1: of the holiday season. But I don't know that every

2194
02:06:09,200 --> 02:06:12,880
Speaker 1: type it rolls around something something stirs, stirs inside of

2195
02:06:12,960 --> 02:06:19,160
Speaker 1: me deep deep and my loins, and yeah, I don't know.

2196
02:06:19,280 --> 02:06:22,160
Speaker 1: I I enjoy it. I like I like the music,

2197
02:06:22,720 --> 02:06:25,360
Speaker 1: I like the food, I like the lights, like the

2198
02:06:25,440 --> 02:06:28,280
Speaker 1: tacky decorations. I can't say I hate any of those

2199
02:06:28,280 --> 02:06:30,680
Speaker 1: that like the idea of the modern idea of Christmas

2200
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:34,400
Speaker 1: I think is a little deluded. But like I said,

2201
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:37,040
Speaker 1: I any chance they get to be around the people

2202
02:06:37,080 --> 02:06:41,120
Speaker 1: I love is a good time for me. I would say,

2203
02:06:42,280 --> 02:06:45,080
Speaker 1: without being ashamed at all, that these three men on

2204
02:06:45,240 --> 02:06:48,080
Speaker 1: this podcast, I love them all. Man, they were They're awesome,

2205
02:06:48,320 --> 02:06:52,320
Speaker 1: And so I hope you loved him too. And next

2206
02:06:52,360 --> 02:06:55,160
Speaker 1: week we're gonna get a little shifty on you. We're

2207
02:06:55,160 --> 02:06:57,520
Speaker 1: gonna talk, We're gonna have Steve Ronella talk about Game

2208
02:06:57,520 --> 02:06:59,560
Speaker 1: of Thrones, We're gonna have Me and Berkeley, bunch of

2209
02:06:59,560 --> 02:07:02,520
Speaker 1: other stuff. So stick around for volume to the best

2210
02:07:02,600 --> 02:07:07,640
Speaker 1: of THHC. Happy Holidays too long because I can't go

2211
02:07:07,880 --> 02:07:15,920
Speaker 1: a week without doing run oh without absolute run ranking

2212
02:07:15,960 --> 02:07:37,480
Speaker 1: out and run absolutely wrong, drinking in heaven, don't sit

2213
02:07:37,600 --> 02:07:40,640
Speaker 1: and at the boss would start to row root. I'm

2214
02:07:40,720 --> 02:07:44,240
Speaker 1: feeling like, can't hold on out, bear rush shoes all down,

2215
02:07:44,320 --> 02:07:44,720
Speaker 1: my one