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Now here's a highlight from Coast 11 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: to Coast AM on iHeart Radio. Welcome back to Coast 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: to Coast George Norri with you. Sea levels are rising 13 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: and what does that mean to the coastal areas all 14 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: around this planet? Our special guest tonight. Jeff Goodell is 15 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: an American author and contributing editor to Rolling Stone Magazine. 16 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: His writings are known for focusing on energy in the environment. 17 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: He is a two thousand, sixteen seventeen Fellow at the 18 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: New America Foundation. He's written books about his upbringing in 19 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, The Story of Computer Kirk, Kevin Mitnick, who's 20 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: been on our program, the Rescue of the trapped Pennsylvania 21 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: coal miners back in two thousand two, and later on 22 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: Expose of Big Coal. This latest work is called the 23 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: Water will Come Rising seas, sinking cities of the Remaking 24 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: of the civilized World. Jeff. That's kind of a scary thought, 25 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah, it is a scary thought, but it's 26 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: also a kind of real thought about the world that 27 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: we're creating. How fast are the water levels rising, Well, 28 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: they're rising, They're not rising very fast right now, four 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: or five millimeters a year right now. But the issue 30 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: is not what's going to happen now if that they 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: were going to sort of exponentially increases the ice caps 32 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: in the in Greenland and an article continue to melt 33 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: and their melt accelerates. So the right now the sort 34 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: of scientists best science says the high end um melt 35 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: by the end of the century is seven ft and 36 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: will continue going after that. So um, that's the kind 37 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: of thing we're looking at right now. And regardless of 38 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: whether people believe in man made the climate change or 39 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: that this is an earth cycle that it happens, can 40 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: it be stopped at all? No? I mean, you know, 41 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: I am a very strong believer that this is, you know, 42 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: driven by burning of fossil fuels and the building up 43 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: of CO two in the atmosphere, and that's what what's 44 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: warming the planet. I think the science is sort of 45 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: very clear about that. But the problem with sea level 46 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: rise is that because we've already heated the planet up 47 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: as much as we have, there's a lot of heat 48 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: built up into the oceans and what scientists called thermal 49 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: inertia um already in our atmosphere. So that basically means 50 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 1: that even if we did cut carbon dock side pollution 51 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: to zero in the new very near future, we would 52 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: still see significant amounts of sea level rise. That's one 53 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: of the reasons why I called my book the Water 54 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: Will Come, not the water might come. Where the water 55 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: will come if we don't all go to solar panels 56 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: or something like that. What's kind of a done deal. 57 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: What's strange to Jeff is, after my interview with you, 58 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to be dealing with an author who has 59 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: written about Edgar Casey, the late American prophet, and Edgar 60 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: Casey's predictions were massive sea level risings, where if you 61 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: look at a map of the United States, you can't 62 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: recognize things. I mean, I think St. Louis becomes the 63 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: west coast of the United States. It's frightening, isn't it. 64 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: It is. I think that that kind of scenario, though, 65 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: is absolutely possible, but not certainly in the near term. 66 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: I mean we're talking about, uh, you know, centuries for 67 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: that kind of thing to happen. But I mean, you know, 68 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: you look at the Earth's history and you know sea 69 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: level rise as the sea levels that's fluctuated by you know, 70 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of feet um. The question is how soon it's 71 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: going to happen and sort of how high it's going 72 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: to rise? What couldn't and it doesn't take much, right, 73 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: even two or three feet of sea level rival have 74 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: devastating impacts some places like Miami and Norfolk and New 75 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: York and Boston, Galveston, lots of places like that and 76 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: other regions on the planet. I guess, right absolutely. I mean, 77 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: you know, you can think of the oceans as a 78 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: big bathtub and it goes up everywhere, and so you know, 79 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: places like Bangladesh, where you have enormous numbers of people 80 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: living in very low places, are hugely at risk. Places 81 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: in India, China. Shanghai is a very vulnerable city. You know, 82 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: you have a hundred forty five million people around the 83 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: globe of being less than three feet above sea level, 84 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: and so you can just imagine the kind of refugee 85 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: crisis we're going to have as these the waters go up, Jeff, 86 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: with the actual flooding of the coastlines. Will there be 87 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: much warning? I mean, will we get weeks, months, years, 88 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: or is it just you're just gonna wake up one 89 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: day and you know half of New York is underwater. No, 90 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: We're not gonna wake up one day and a half 91 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: half of New York underwater. I mean, in the past, 92 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: the geologic records show that there have been moments in 93 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: Earth history where we've had thirteen feet of sea level 94 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: rising a century. Um. That's sort of the high end. 95 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: So I mean, what we're looking at, you know, worst 96 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: case scenario is, you know, a foot and foot and 97 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: a half of sea level rise in a decade. So 98 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: you know it's not gonna be the kind of thing 99 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: that is going to happen sort of as you watch 100 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: the water. Um, but even something like a foot and 101 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: a half of sea level rise in a decade would 102 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: be just devastating, and it would huge economic uh consequences 103 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: to something like that. Because a lot of people feel, hey, 104 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: this is not gonna happen in my lifetime, so I'm 105 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: not gonna worry about it. That's really not the right 106 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: attitude to take, is it. It's not the right attitude 107 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: at all, because first of all, we don't know how 108 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: fast this this could happen. As I said, in the past, 109 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,799 Speaker 1: um we've seen thirteen ft in a century, which means, 110 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: you know, like I said, of foot and a half 111 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: or so a decade. There's increasing evidence that um West 112 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: Stantarctica is um very unstable and that the large ice 113 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: cliffs there could collapse into the sea and cause fairly 114 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: rapid sea level sea level rise. But it's also really 115 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: important that, like I said, even small, relatively small amounts 116 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: will have have big, big consequences. And I think that 117 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: one of the biggest risks that we faced with two 118 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 1: level rises is um economic collapse of realist day prices 119 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: in coastal areas, which you know, can happen very quickly, 120 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: and we'll have a devastated impact on the sort of 121 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: revenues for for these coastal cities and and huge impacts 122 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: on our national economy. Jeff Goddel with us. His book 123 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: is called The Water Will Come. You also wrote a 124 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: book called Hot to Cool the Planet, and you know 125 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: there's there's a tie in there, so you are deeply 126 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: involved in just trying to save this planet. Jeffrey, Well, 127 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot of saving to do. I mean, I 128 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: think that you know, we're in a lot of trouble. 129 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,679 Speaker 1: Geo engineering that I wrote about in my previous book 130 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: is this idea of you know, kind of large scale 131 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: manipulation of the Earth's climate by reflecting away a little 132 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: bit of sunlight, putting particles in the stratosphere, or essentially 133 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: creating what are like our artificial volcanoes that actors little 134 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: reflectors to keep the sun, uh, some of the sunlight 135 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: from getting the planet. I want to really underscore that 136 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: I don't think this is something that is happening now 137 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: that people do believe that. I do not think. I 138 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: know in fact that this is not happening. But but 139 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: in the future, I think that it's a kind of 140 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: technology that we may turn to as things get desperate 141 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: and we need to cool off the planet quickly, and 142 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: in in terms, you know, the President wants to build 143 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: a wall along the Mexican US border to keep people 144 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: from coming into this country. What about building the sea 145 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: wall all along the coastal areas? Not practical, I guess, well, 146 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: not practical in the sense of very expensive. But it's 147 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: also not practical, um for like in places like Miami, 148 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: for example, one of the reasons Miami's in so much 149 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,479 Speaker 1: trouble is that it's built on a kind of limestone 150 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: that's very porous. So the entire South Florida is basically 151 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: built on Swiss cheese, which means that if you even 152 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: if you did build the sea walls along the coast there, 153 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: the water would go kind of right underneath it and 154 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: come up on the other side. So there are a 155 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: lot of reasons why see why sea walls won't work 156 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: in some places. Um, they're building, they're they're planning right 157 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: now a big barrier around Lower Manhattan, the kind of 158 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: a wall called the Big You that's going to protect 159 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: wall streets and all that, and um, it's gonna cost 160 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: several billion dollars. Um that kind of thing is practical, 161 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: and because it's the most valuable real estate on the earth, 162 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: and so it's worth spending. You know, several billion dollars 163 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: to protect it. But many, in many, many places, this 164 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: sort of economic value is just not there and the 165 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: money to do it. How many people are we talking 166 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: about would have to be displaced along the coastlines of 167 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: just the United States, Well, it depends on you know, 168 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: I don't know exact numbers. UM. You know, there there 169 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: have been some studies showing that, you know, with six 170 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: ft of sea level is which is sort of you know, 171 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: mid to high end for the end of the century, 172 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, two and a half million people will be 173 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: displaced just out of Florida. UM. So you know, we're 174 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: talking about tens of millions of people. UM. And you know, 175 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: when you think about the refugee crisis that we're having 176 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: in the world right now, UM, this kind of thing 177 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: would make the refugee crisis today look like a sort 178 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: of high school prom I mean, we were talking about 179 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: massive numbers of people displaced. And this isn't a matter 180 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: of if, it's a matter of when I take it exactly. 181 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean that's a really important thing is that this 182 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: is not speculative. This is sort of as real as gravity. 183 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: I mean, this is something that um, will will happen 184 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: it's a question of what the time scales are. How soon, 185 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: um you know, how high the water will rise. But 186 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: given the amount of heat that's already built up in 187 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: the Earth's atmosphere and in the in the Earth's ocean, 188 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: this is a done deal. Listen to more Coast to 189 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: Coast a m every weeknight at one a m. Eastern, 190 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: and go to Coast to Coast am dot com for 191 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: more