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Speaker 1: P and L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox. Along with my

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Speaker 1: most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for you and your money,

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. Bonds what to do with the

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Speaker 1: bond market, We've got Jim Bianco. James Bianco is the

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Speaker 1: president of Bianco Research, joining us from Chicago. Boy, you know,

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Speaker 1: Jim Bianco, I think of the bond market continues the

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Speaker 1: way it's going, they're not gonna be any people in

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Speaker 1: the bond market much longer. No, I think they're in

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Speaker 1: the sleeping You guys were talking about that. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: got their blankets, you know, they pull it up, they

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Speaker 1: get that little pillow out from Tim. I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: that you could join us. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: saw that the Feds Jim Bullard came out today and

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Speaker 1: said that there's no need to discuss the Fed's balance sheet.

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Speaker 1: People have been talking about when the Federal stopped reinvesting,

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Speaker 1: what they get from their four point five trillion dollars

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Speaker 1: of investments that they're holding. Um, what's your take on this?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that they're going to have to talk

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Speaker 1: about it given the amount of money that they're receiving

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Speaker 1: from bonds being paid out and maturing. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: they're going to have to talk about it. Um, the

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Speaker 1: feds balance sheet has got trillions of dollars of Treasury

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Speaker 1: securities on it. In simple terms, the bond market believes

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Speaker 1: that all those bonds that are on the Fed's balance

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Speaker 1: sheet are permanently out of circulation. They're never going to

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Speaker 1: come back into circulation. So Bullet is saying, and what

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Speaker 1: Bill Dudley has said and some others have said, be

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Speaker 1: very very careful when you talk about reintroduced those bonds

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Speaker 1: back into the market, because then you could have a

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Speaker 1: shock in the market if they believe that. We have

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Speaker 1: to make room and private accounts now you know, banks

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Speaker 1: and and endowments and trusts inspectative accounts for trillions of

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Speaker 1: dollars of securities which are locked away, which we think

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Speaker 1: is forever in the Fed's balance sheet, can be very disruptive.

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Speaker 1: To date, I don't think the market has listened much

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Speaker 1: to that conversation because it's not going to until the

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Speaker 1: two big architects of the balance sheet, Bill Dudley and

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Speaker 1: Janet yell And speak on the subject. And they haven't.

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Speaker 1: And now that Bullard has come out on the other side,

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Speaker 1: it's going to reinforce that idea that man, that's just

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Speaker 1: Fed talk. We don't really have to listen to it.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we have to listen to it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: aren't the mandates for the FED. Price stability and employment

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with protecting people against bond losses. Right?

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Speaker 1: Price stability is another word for inflation. Since two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: when the recession ended, the Great Recession ended, what have

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Speaker 1: we not had is inflation. So when the FED has

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Speaker 1: this giant sheet and they run these extreme policies, they're

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Speaker 1: allowed to get away with it, if you will, because

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Speaker 1: we haven't had inflation. Now you get Donald Trump being elected,

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Speaker 1: and you see consumer confidence at the seventeen year high,

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Speaker 1: you see business optimism at forty year high. You see

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Speaker 1: all of these numbers going through the roof, the stock

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Speaker 1: markets at a new high, and there's talk of reflation,

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Speaker 1: and part of that reflation talk is inflation as opposed

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Speaker 1: to real growth. Maybe now, for the first time in

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Speaker 1: seven years, eight years, we might actually get a pulse

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Speaker 1: out of inflation, and it might force the Fed to

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Speaker 1: have to deal with that. Up until now, they could

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Speaker 1: just discuss ignore, you know, you know, trying out smart

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Speaker 1: everybody about it, but they didn't have to do anything

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Speaker 1: about it. But if we get inflation, they do have

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Speaker 1: to start thinking about it. Jim, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you caught this, but yesterday Black Rocks Larry Fink was

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Speaker 1: talking about his outlook on the bond market, and he

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Speaker 1: said that he actually thinks that there's a higher likelihood

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Speaker 1: of the ten year Treasury yelled going down from here,

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Speaker 1: possibly going below two, rather than rising. So it sort

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Speaker 1: of goes against this idea that we're actually going to

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Speaker 1: see some inflation. I actually do agree with that. I

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Speaker 1: think that the problem is, and this gets into the

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Speaker 1: technicals of the bond market, I think we're going to

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Speaker 1: see a bump up in inflation and I think that

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Speaker 1: by two eighteen we're going to see higher yields. Now,

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Speaker 1: that is the most consensus thing you can say, so

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Speaker 1: much so that almost everybody in the bond market is

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Speaker 1: positioned for that. So if the market does go to

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Speaker 1: three percent by the by the spring of next year,

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Speaker 1: everybody makes money. And it was we found with contrarian opinion.

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Speaker 1: When everybody's lined up one way in the market, it

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Speaker 1: tends to go the other way. So that's why I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if we do go below two percent.

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Speaker 1: Like Larry said, first question, that idea that there's going

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Speaker 1: to be inflation, and then we have the big rise

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Speaker 1: of rates after that going and you know, finding out

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Speaker 1: that Yett was there. It's just the problem is everybody's

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Speaker 1: positioned for it right now, and usually when that happens,

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Speaker 1: the market has a tendency to go the other way.

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Speaker 1: So if every if everyone's wrong and the market goes

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Speaker 1: the other way, who's going to suffer the biggest losses?

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Speaker 1: And will this be something that everyone's talking about how

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of hurt going on. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that you know right now, if you were to look

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Speaker 1: at who is the biggest bet on rates going to

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Speaker 1: three percent. It's the more speculative hedge fund accounts by

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Speaker 1: some of the measures in the futures market. And uh

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Speaker 1: they have the biggest short position ever ever in the

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Speaker 1: in the bond market, betting on higher rates because they

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Speaker 1: think Trump is going to bring back a reflation. They're

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Speaker 1: on the firing line that they're going to be the

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Speaker 1: most hurt by some kind of a fall in interest

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Speaker 1: rates as opposed to arise. Jim, how long can they

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Speaker 1: hold that position until the leverage starts to hurt? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I think that if you start pushing rates down, you know,

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Speaker 1: run under say twenty We're around two thirty four right now,

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Speaker 1: right and we were at highest to sixty in mid December,

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Speaker 1: so we're halfway there. I think that that's when the

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Speaker 1: pain threshold will start to kick in, and then as

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Speaker 1: you go underneath two it really kick in. Well, I

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Speaker 1: thought about the spread though. I'm looking at the spread.

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Speaker 1: Let's say the two ten uh spread one point one

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Speaker 1: seven on the two year and the as you just said,

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Speaker 1: the tenure two point three eight, so one, you know,

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Speaker 1: one one versus two and a quarter, right, I think

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Speaker 1: that you know, as you were to push the tenure

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Speaker 1: down to two twenty or maybe down to two, you

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Speaker 1: would see the YEO curve spread you write it's one seventeen,

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Speaker 1: probably continue to narrow two and that would not bold

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Speaker 1: well for financial stocks. And they've actually hit a little

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Speaker 1: bit of turbulence yere recently because a wider spread they

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Speaker 1: borrow shortland long benefits them and a narrow spread would

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Speaker 1: hurt them. So if if everybody's two lined up for

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Speaker 1: three percent rates, which would be good for the banks,

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Speaker 1: and we wind up going to two, they could stumble

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Speaker 1: in that environment as well. Okay, so let's say what

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Speaker 1: what happens that you just said, Let's say it plays

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Speaker 1: out or all of a sudden, you've got yields on anten,

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Speaker 1: your treasury is plunging against everybody's senses. Mortgage rates do

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Speaker 1: you think that they could continue to rise despite this

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Speaker 1: or they also fall in tandem? I mean, are they

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Speaker 1: basically linked at the hip at this point? Um? No,

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Speaker 1: I think mortgage rates would there. They would fall on

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Speaker 1: an absolute basis, but I would agree with you that

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Speaker 1: the spread would white. They would not fall as much

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Speaker 1: as treasuries would fall. Uh, So they wouldn't the couple

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Speaker 1: all the way that one would go up in the

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Speaker 1: other would would go down. And and I think that

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Speaker 1: the reason that mortgage rates would fall is one thing

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Speaker 1: the FED is working off of. There is the mortgage

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Speaker 1: holdings are really working off their balance sheet fast. That

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Speaker 1: means they're more in private sector. If we do get

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Speaker 1: a reflation and that does get a bump up in

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Speaker 1: housing starts and in refinancing, you could seem demand for

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Speaker 1: mortgages and that could also keep their rates um higher

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Speaker 1: than they would from a treasury, So you could see

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Speaker 1: the widening spread. That's really interesting. So even if we

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Speaker 1: see treasury yields decline, borrowing costs for people who are

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Speaker 1: looking to borrow money to by a house might stay elevated.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jim Bianco, always a pleasure speaking

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Speaker 1: with you, President and founder of Bianco Research, longtime veteran

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Speaker 1: of the bond market. Expecting that just like Larry Fink

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Speaker 1: of Black Rock thinks possibly it's more likely for tenure

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Speaker 1: treasure yields to fall before they rise. We've been talking

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Speaker 1: a lot about the anti globalist trend, uh the populist

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Speaker 1: wave that we've seedwash over really the entire world. We

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Speaker 1: haven't heard as much about what this will do for travel,

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Speaker 1: But now we have someone who can give us some insight.

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Speaker 1: Alex Sosiah, chief executive officer of Apple Leisure Group, which

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Speaker 1: is based in Philadelphia. Alex, do you have a sense

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Speaker 1: that people will try novel less internationally given the populist

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Speaker 1: backdrop in sort of the anti globalist sentiment that we've seen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you. I I am concerned about that. What we

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Speaker 1: see the trends in the short term is that we

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Speaker 1: have stronger numbers for Americans traveling outside of the country,

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Speaker 1: particularly to Mexico and the Caribbean, versus a year ago

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Speaker 1: for traveling within this year, but it could be affecting

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Speaker 1: soon if the territory continues to be the one to

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Speaker 1: protect protectionism and uncertainty of what's going on in the

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Speaker 1: airports and stuff like that. So, yeah, it is a

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Speaker 1: concern that we have, although the big trends still shows

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Speaker 1: very positive. Well, you've been doing this for what thirty

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Speaker 1: more than thirty years? Can you sort of run down

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Speaker 1: for us the destinations where you think investments at least

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Speaker 1: in the actual infrastructure of hospitality our best our best

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Speaker 1: looked at, whether it is Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama, where

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Speaker 1: would you look. Yeah, well, that's the places that we're looking,

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Speaker 1: that we're investing. And indeed, the places that you mentioned

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Speaker 1: now that we are UH totally focused on on resorts,

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Speaker 1: and on the resorts, the most profitable destinations happen to

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Speaker 1: be the ones that have the biggest connectivity, the best

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Speaker 1: natural resources, are lowest payroll, and and and and the

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Speaker 1: avocation of tourism, particular to certain American tourism, the American

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Speaker 1: tourism UM oriented destinations are the most profitable ones. And yes,

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Speaker 1: the beaches in Mexico and Country Amaya, Loscaos, Portoa, that

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Speaker 1: all those are great places. But also in the Caribbean

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Speaker 1: there's great there. There are great opportunities at Jamaica, UH

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Speaker 1: Talks and Cacos. Domerican Republic is growing very rapidly and

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Speaker 1: with great returns. And and then we see opportunities in

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Speaker 1: Central America, not just in contact in Costa Rica that

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Speaker 1: it's been there for a longer period of time, but

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Speaker 1: now we see emerging places in UH in Panama as well,

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Speaker 1: hopefully so Nicaragua. And then we go south place like Colombia,

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Speaker 1: it's also growing very rapidly with good returns and and

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Speaker 1: good respond and great customer satisfaction Alex. In addition to

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Speaker 1: some of the protection as to rhetorict that we've globally,

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Speaker 1: there also is this feeling that generally people are feeling

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Speaker 1: better about their economic wherewithal, particularly in the United States.

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Speaker 1: Are you seeing that sort of trickle into plans for

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Speaker 1: more expensive vacations or just more vacation plans in general. Yes,

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Speaker 1: of course we see that that that that of course

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Speaker 1: helps a lot. People are feeling better. The prices of

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Speaker 1: flying outside of the United States in general is is

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Speaker 1: cheaper than before. We have a tropic about four to

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Speaker 1: the destination that we work with versus a year ago.

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Speaker 1: So I think that the Americans are seeing more value

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Speaker 1: for the morning one side and the other side. They

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Speaker 1: are comfortable with their um with the with the overall economy,

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Speaker 1: and I think that obviously helps the people to travel

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Speaker 1: and we seek that. We see the number of new

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Speaker 1: passports issuing in the United States now at fifteen million

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Speaker 1: per year, about fifty percent or those so seven point

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Speaker 1: seven seven point five million are reissuing passports renewals. But

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Speaker 1: the other side point five our brand new passports. So

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Speaker 1: in ten years you're talking about almost eighty million new

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Speaker 1: passports in the United States, and it's still only forty

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Speaker 1: percent of the population. We still have sixty percent of

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Speaker 1: population in the United States without passports. So I do

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Speaker 1: see a big trend of people getting passports, getting passports

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Speaker 1: of course to travel outside of the country. And the

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Speaker 1: biggest region that it's utilize for the utilization of those

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Speaker 1: passports is a Mexican and Caribbean. So I see a

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Speaker 1: big growth, a big trends traveling internationally. It's becoming more

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Speaker 1: for everyone, more a commodity. But within those experienced travelers,

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Speaker 1: certainly they're spending more money and looking more sophistication. There's

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Speaker 1: also much better product. Well, when you talk about product,

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Speaker 1: alex I wonder if you could tell us is there

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Speaker 1: an opportunity for an investor in Mexico. Are there hotel

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Speaker 1: projects that are looking for investors that maybe have been

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Speaker 1: stymied because of the change or the parent change in

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Speaker 1: policy because of the Trump administration. I don't, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that because of the Trump administration has

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Speaker 1: slowed down any of the projects that are down there.

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Speaker 1: But certainly there's always an opportunity for American investors to

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Speaker 1: go and invest in in places in Mexico or you know,

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Speaker 1: or in other destinations in the Caribbean. In this case, Uh,

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Speaker 1: the American investors. In the case of our company, we

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Speaker 1: just had KKR and CASEL investing big time in our company. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they're being very shy so far. The Americans have not

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Speaker 1: very active in this In this sector is mainly dominant

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Speaker 1: by regional and local investors as well as European investors.

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Speaker 1: So there's not so much activity so far for the

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Speaker 1: for the for the for the U S investors and

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Speaker 1: particularly for the U S banks to participate in the

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Speaker 1: leisure sector. On the hospitality in Mexico. But I see

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Speaker 1: a lot more appetite and a lot more oppenness of

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Speaker 1: going and compete and start investing there. So I don't

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Speaker 1: see any projects slowing down. H. But what I do

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Speaker 1: see is a create opportunity to spit that up. We

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Speaker 1: gotta leave it there. I want to thank you very much,

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Speaker 1: Alex Dosiah. He's the chief executive of Apple Leisure Group

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Speaker 1: made Smarter. You know who did some innovation. Theresa May,

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. She innovated by convincing

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Speaker 1: the Parliament to uh pass her plan to exit the

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Speaker 1: europe Pian Union. It comes with a catch, though. Let's

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Speaker 1: stay a little bit more into that with Sarah Jane Mahmoud,

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Speaker 1: government analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence in London. So, Sarah, can

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Speaker 1: you first just give us a rundown on what exactly

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Speaker 1: Parliament past giving Theresa May the ability to go ahead

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Speaker 1: and start the process of excuting the European Union. Hi? There, Yes, sure,

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Speaker 1: And so yesterday and MP's in the House of Commons

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Speaker 1: passed the bill that gives Raiser May permission to activate

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Speaker 1: Article fifty of the Lisbon Treaty, effectively kickstarting exit talks

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Speaker 1: for Brexit with EU leaders and however she doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a free pass as yet because the bill now goes

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Speaker 1: to the House of Lords. I'm who from the twentieth

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Speaker 1: of February will start considering whether or not Traiser May

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Speaker 1: can activate Article fifty by the end of March as

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Speaker 1: she wants to. What is the outlook for the House

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Speaker 1: of Lords vote? Um, Well, the House of Lords um

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Speaker 1: mainly opposed to activating Article fifty and to Brexit. However,

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Speaker 1: as they're an unelected body, they would be unlikely to

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Speaker 1: block the bill itself, but they could take their time

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Speaker 1: to consider it and make possible amendments, for example, make

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Speaker 1: the activation of Article fifty contingent on the government considering

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Speaker 1: staying in the European Economic Area or securing continued access

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Speaker 1: to the EU Single Market for UK based financial services companies.

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Speaker 1: So in other words, um, this might become a pretty thorny,

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Speaker 1: sticky issue. Just because this means that Theresa May can

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Speaker 1: start the process, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will

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Speaker 1: speed it up by any means, and it sort of

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Speaker 1: remains to be seen whether Parliament will work with her

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Speaker 1: on some kind of constructive basis to get through a

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Speaker 1: plan that is palatable for for everybody involved exactly. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's likely that the House of Lords will ultimately pass

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Speaker 1: the bill allowing the government to activate Article fifty um.

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Speaker 1: And it's also likely that because tres and May wants

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Speaker 1: to activate Article fifty start exit talks of the leaders

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Speaker 1: by the end of March, a self imposed deadline. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think ultimately she wants to do this during the

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Speaker 1: next European Council meeting that's set for March the ninth, UM.

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Speaker 1: So she's hoping that the bill will get approval before them. Sarah,

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Speaker 1: you know, just assooming out a little bit as as

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Speaker 1: a member as somebody who lives in London. How has

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Speaker 1: the conversation changed. I mean, when you go out to dinner,

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Speaker 1: you go to the pub, is everybody still talking about

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Speaker 1: Brexit and Brexit negotiations? So people still care? Are they

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Speaker 1: paying close attention to all of these machinations or are

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Speaker 1: they kind of separating themselves from it, kind of assuming

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Speaker 1: that things are going to keep going. I mean, I think,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, there is a lot of Brexit fatigue

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Speaker 1: at the moment um in professional and social circles. But

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Speaker 1: a key issue looking at the financial services sector is

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Speaker 1: whether or not banks fund managers, insurers, payment service providers

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Speaker 1: and more. M can continue to access the EU market

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Speaker 1: at once the UK exits the EU, which gift RAISU

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Speaker 1: may can activate Article fifty by the end of March. UM.

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Speaker 1: It would be likely the UK would leave the European

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Speaker 1: Union around about April two thousand and ninety. What are

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Speaker 1: people in London worried about losing their jobs? I think

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Speaker 1: that there is a big concern that many financial institutions

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Speaker 1: are likely to move their operations into another EU member state. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I guess until there's more clarity, until Article fifty

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Speaker 1: is activated and negotiations start taking place, UM, there's just

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Speaker 1: a lot of uncertainty here. How does passporting relate directly

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Speaker 1: to the sales that financial companies currently enjoy? Okay, So

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Speaker 1: under the passporting regime, the companies financial services companies that

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Speaker 1: are based in the UK, regardless of where they are incorporated. UM,

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Speaker 1: they have free access to over twenty seven European countries,

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Speaker 1: and they're allowed to establish a branch or provide cross

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Speaker 1: border services without needing local authorization in every single country,

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Speaker 1: and they generally only have to comply with one rule

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Speaker 1: book rather than up to twenty eight for example, um

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Speaker 1: Tresa May's plan is basically a hard Brexit, which means

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Speaker 1: to leave the EU without continued access to the Single Market,

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Speaker 1: or rather continued membership of the Single Market. Um So

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Speaker 1: with that passporting rights would be lost and financial services

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Speaker 1: companies that have their base in the UK would need

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Speaker 1: to seek alternative ways to access the EU market. Now,

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Speaker 1: the white paper that the government published last week didn't

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Speaker 1: really give any clarity on what special deal they're looking

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Speaker 1: to to make with EU leaders, and similarly EU leaders

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Speaker 1: won't really show their cards and they won't indicate what

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Speaker 1: they might be able to offer the UK until Article

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Speaker 1: fifty is activated. I want to thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for your insight in your time. Sarah Mahmwood is a

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Speaker 1: government analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence based in London. Of course,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence providing unique in real time research in a

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Speaker 1: variety of industries and also government as well as market

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Speaker 1: factors that affect business. Just type B I go on

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg to get all of that Bloomberg Intelligence research.

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Speaker 1: You know, every time I see that a bank or

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Speaker 1: firm is moving their operations out of London elsewhere in

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Speaker 1: the in the United the European Union or the U S.

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Speaker 1: I have to think, is this because of Brexit? Is

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Speaker 1: this become of Brexit? But perhaps perhaps it's just people

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Speaker 1: are sitting and waiting. I guess we'll have to say

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Speaker 1: it could be. I want to call on Sharudi sing,

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Speaker 1: our agriculture Companies reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us from Chicago. Sharudi,

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Speaker 1: I'm wonder if you could describe for US an industry

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Speaker 1: that many people may not know the details of but

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Speaker 1: are the recipient of. This is the meat packing industry,

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Speaker 1: and uh, maybe you could give us the sort of

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Speaker 1: rundown on how a steak actually arrives on the plate

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Speaker 1: of a diner and how that is connected to foreign policy. Sure, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: so good to be with you. Um, the meat industry

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Speaker 1: in the US UM employs a lot of different people,

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Speaker 1: and um, it's it's a long supply chain that starts

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Speaker 1: with a farmer that you're talking specifically about steak. You've

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Speaker 1: got farmers who raise cows and calves. Those cattle go

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Speaker 1: onto feed lots, and then those cattle that are battened

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Speaker 1: up at feed lots then eventually go to the meat

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Speaker 1: packing plants. And the meat packing plants are where we

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Speaker 1: have a number of different types of workers. They're one

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Speaker 1: of the larger segments is the immigrant population. Particularly over

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Speaker 1: the last few decades, the immigrant workers increased um and

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Speaker 1: more recently, in the last decade or so, we've seen

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Speaker 1: refugees become a fixture in these plants. So, shrewd I

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Speaker 1: was just looking at your story and you say that

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Speaker 1: immigrants hold more than one third of these jobs in

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Speaker 1: the United States and wondering, shrewdly from your sources, what

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Speaker 1: are you hearing as far as what recent immigration policies

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Speaker 1: and proposals, what effect they would have on their business? Well,

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Speaker 1: right now, I think a lot of the companies are

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Speaker 1: monitoring the situation that when we talk to some of

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Speaker 1: the industry groups, um, they're telling us that they want

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Speaker 1: the administration to really um consider what ramifications the policy

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Speaker 1: changes would have on businesses as well as the foreign

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Speaker 1: born workers. Well, I wonder if you could get the

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Speaker 1: details for us in terms of the companies affected, Tyson,

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Speaker 1: for example, Cargil, j B S. Are they all exposed equally. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, one area that we looked at was Fort

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Speaker 1: Morgan in Colorado, where Cargill has a large beef plant,

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Speaker 1: and that is an area where UM, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of immigrants and a lot of UM refugees that

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Speaker 1: are working in that particular plant where there are these

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Speaker 1: people from. Just to give us as much detail as

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Speaker 1: you have, sir, so, Cargill actually told us that about

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Speaker 1: twelve percent of the employees at the Fort Morgan beef

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Speaker 1: plant come from East Africa. UM. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: these workers have come for a variety of different reasons,

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Speaker 1: but UM. You know, one of the ways that they

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Speaker 1: can find employment UM in the US through placement agencies,

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Speaker 1: has been at these plants. And over the last decade,

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Speaker 1: Cargill and other meat packers have relied on or had

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Speaker 1: turned to refugees as a source of UM a labor

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Speaker 1: pool basically, and UM. Even so, Cargill has told us

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Speaker 1: that it is still a challenge to be able to

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Speaker 1: fully staff those plants. And just to give you a

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Speaker 1: little bit of an idea, Cargil Fort Morgan plant in

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Speaker 1: Colorado UM starts workers at an hourly wage about fourteen

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Speaker 1: dollars and nineties cents, and that's about higher than Colorado's

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Speaker 1: minimum wage, and they offer health care and benefits. But UM,

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Speaker 1: it's still a challenge for Cargill to fully staff that plant.

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Speaker 1: So UM to play devil's advocate, somebody could say, well,

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Speaker 1: the reason why they can't find enough people to fill

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Speaker 1: those jobs is because it's a difficult job and it's

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Speaker 1: one that people aren't drawn to you unless they're paid

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Speaker 1: substantially more. And you know, there's a question of would

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Speaker 1: they be paying even higher wages and employing a sort

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Speaker 1: of broader range of people if they didn't have access

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Speaker 1: to people who were escaping war zones. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: just wondering, is that is that really what's going on here?

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Speaker 1: Because before two six, right, they there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of illegal immigrants UM that these plants employed, and after

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Speaker 1: a crackdown, they turned to refugees. So one person we

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Speaker 1: talked to who tracks refugew resettlement program really carefully, she

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Speaker 1: actually suggested that maybe the meat packers UM could draw

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Speaker 1: for Native born applicants for these particular jobs and these

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Speaker 1: meat packing plants if they raised their wages. And then

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Speaker 1: she even acknowledged that, you know, that could potentially lead

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Speaker 1: to higher prices for consumers, but she said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'd be happy to eat less meat. Well, I want

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Speaker 1: to thank you very much for being with us A

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Speaker 1: Sharudi Sing is our Agriculture Companies reporter, joining us from Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at iTunes, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Pim Fox. I'm

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Speaker 1: out there on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm out there

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one before the podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio. M

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