1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: In this episode of New World, author, screenwriter, philanthropist, journalist, 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: and broadcaster Mitch Album is an inspiration around the world. 3 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Album is the author of numerous books of fiction and nonfiction, 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: which have collectively sold more than forty million copies in 5 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: forty eight languages worldwide. He's written eight number one New 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: York Times bestsellers, including Tuesdays with Maury, the best selling 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: memoir of all time, which topped the list for four 8 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: stray years and celebrated its twenty fifth anniversary on twenty 9 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: twenty two. He's also written award winning TV films, stage plays, screenplays, 10 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: a nationally syndicated newspaper column, and a musical. He appeared 11 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,959 Speaker 1: for more than twenty years in ESPN and was a 12 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: fixture on the sports reporters through his work at the 13 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: Detroit Free Press. He was inducted into both the National 14 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: Sports Media Association and Michigan Sports Hall of Fame, and 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: was the recipient of the Redsmith Award for Lifetime achievement. 16 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: So with that introduction, I am really pleased to welcome 17 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: my guest, Mitch Album, and he's joining us to discuss 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: his new novel, The Little Liar, which is now available 19 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 1: in bookstores everywhere. Mitch, welcome and thank you for joining 20 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: me on New World. 21 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: That's a pleasure. Thank you for having me on. How 22 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: did you get into writing accidentally? 23 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: I was a musician and that's all I ever really 24 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: wanted to be. Never wrote anything while I was in 25 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 3: high school or college. I just wanted to work in 26 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 3: the music business, and I did that for a few 27 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 3: years in New York. Wasn't really getting anywhere and worked 28 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 3: at nights mostly, and so during the day I had 29 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 3: time free. And I was in a supermarket one day 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 3: and picked up one of those giveaway newspapers that they 31 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 3: have there, and they had a little thing in the 32 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 3: bottom right corner that said, we could use some help 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: with our newspaper if you have time. And since I 34 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 3: had some time, I went down there, and I think 35 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: it was the youngest person in the office by about 36 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 3: seventy years, and they gave me an assignment that night, 37 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: and I'd never written anything, and they gave me an 38 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 3: assignment to cover a parking meter's hearing. And all I 39 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 3: knew about journalism was all the president's men, which I 40 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: had seen, like a lot of other people in the movies, 41 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 3: And so I got myself a pad and a pen, 42 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 3: and I went there and asked a lot of direct questions, 43 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 3: and then I guess I had just read a lot 44 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: of newspapers in my life, and I knew that you 45 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: start with that sort of general paragraph that sums it up, 46 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 3: and then you have a quote, and then you expanded. 47 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 3: So I wrote the story, and the next week when 48 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: I went back to the supermarket, I picked up the 49 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 3: little paper that they gave out, and there was my 50 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: story on the bottom of the front page and had 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 3: my name on it. And I got that little tingled 52 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 3: in my stomach, and I've been a writer ever since. 53 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: How did your family react to your name in print? 54 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 3: Well, my father always wanted me to be a lawyer 55 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 3: or a doctor, and so he hated the idea that 56 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 3: I was going to be a musician. And he tolerated 57 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: it because he loved me and he was a good 58 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 3: man and a good father. And then after a few 59 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: years I said to him, you know, I think I'm 60 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 3: going to get out of the music business. And I 61 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 3: could see he was trying to hide the smile on 62 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 3: his face, and he said, well, all right, if you 63 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 3: feel that that's the right thing, you know, what are 64 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 3: you thinking? Of going into and I said writing, and 65 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 3: he said writing, that's the fire to the frying band. 66 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 3: And so he wasn't too crazy about it for the 67 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 3: first few years, but eventually he came around, and I 68 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: think eventually by the time I was writing a newspaper 69 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 3: column and then wrote a book, he thought, it's ah, 70 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 3: maybe he'll be able to make something of himself. 71 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: I have to ask you before we leave your famed 72 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: musical career. You played in the Lucky Tiger Grease Stick band. Yeah, 73 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: do you want to tell us all a little bit 74 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: about I think this was in high school, wasn't it. 75 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: In high school? It was like a Shana Nah band. 76 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 3: We greased our hair back and we sang the songs 77 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: of the nineteen fifties and the early sixties and do 78 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 3: wop music, you know, and it was a lot of fun. 79 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: We played all around high schools and bands and concerts, 80 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 3: and I never had to worry about dancing in high 81 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: school because I was always playing in the band, you know, 82 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 3: which there was an easier way to meet girls than 83 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: asking them to dance. And many years later, when I 84 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 3: got out of music, just to put full circle on it, 85 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 3: I joined a band of writers with Stephen King and 86 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 3: Dave Barry and Amy Tan and Ridley Pearson, Scott Turou, 87 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 3: James McBride, kind of a who's who of a lot 88 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 3: of writers. And we've been together now for twenty five years, 89 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 3: and honestly new this band is worse than my high 90 00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 3: school band. 91 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: So it performs below the standard of the Lucky Tiger 92 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: Grease Stick band. 93 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly, Yes, that's hysterical. 94 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: Now. I have to say one of the things I 95 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: was intrigued by you actually ended up in Crete playing 96 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: in a tavernas it says, singing Elvis Presley and Ray 97 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: Charles songs. What was that like? I would think it 98 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: must be pretty wild. 99 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 3: Well, I ended up there quite by accident. And I 100 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 3: was over in Europe after college and doing the backpacking 101 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 3: thing before I came back to New York to try 102 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 3: my life as a musician, and I ended up in Athens. 103 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 3: I entered an ad for a piano player wanted on 104 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 3: Resort Island and didn't even know what it was. And 105 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: they gave me a plane ticket and flew me over 106 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 3: to Crete. And I walked into the place and the 107 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 3: guy said to me, are you the piano player? I said, yeah, 108 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: I said, sit down, start playing. I didn't have any music. 109 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 3: I didn't have anything, and I just sat down at 110 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 3: this piano and started playing piano, which I could do. 111 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 3: And then after he listened to me for a little while, 112 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 3: he took me down to Verna, the nightclub, to negotiate 113 00:05:58,360 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: the deal. 114 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: And while we were there, said can you sing? 115 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 3: And I said, well, I could sing, and he said, well, 116 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 3: go sing with the band and I said, I can't 117 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 3: sing Greek music. He said, just go sing with the band, 118 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 3: or you know, I'm not going to give you the job. 119 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 3: And so I went to the guy at the band 120 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 3: and whispered in his area. I said, do you know 121 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: any American rock and roll music? And he said Elvis 122 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 3: Prizsdy and I said, yeah, okay, Elvis Presy. 123 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: He says blue sweit Choose. I said, okay, I can 124 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: do blue swey choos. 125 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 3: And you know, the lights were off, and you know 126 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 3: that song kind of starts cold, you know, without any music. 127 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 3: So it was like one, two, three, and then the 128 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 3: lights go up and I go one for the money, 129 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 3: two for the show like that, and everybody's mouth just 130 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 3: dropped open. For about the next three minutes. I became 131 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 3: Elvis Presley, and I was kind of swinging around the 132 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 3: whole club and dancing and everything. And by the time 133 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 3: I finished, I got a standing ovation and the nightclub 134 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 3: owner said, I'm hiring you as my singer and my 135 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 3: piano player. 136 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: And I got the job. 137 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 3: And I was there for about seven months, And if 138 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 3: I was smart, I would have just stayed there the 139 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: rest of my life, but like a fool, I wanted 140 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 3: to get back to New York so I could starve. 141 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: What was life in Creek like, Oh, it's magical? 142 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 3: First of all, Well, back then, Crete wasn't developed like 143 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 3: it is now. And I was near this fishing village 144 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 3: called Agios Nicolaus, and I used to be able to 145 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 3: ride a bicycle into town or run into town. 146 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: And then I just stand on the corner. 147 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 3: By the fishing area there where everybody was in their boats. 148 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 3: And they knew me because you know how many guys 149 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 3: on the island of Crete in that corner of it 150 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: sing Elvis Presley music. 151 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: And so they would pull up in cards and. 152 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 3: Say, oh, hello, elders, get in the car, Come on, 153 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 3: I give you a ride, do you know, And so 154 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 3: I was like the king of the island. You know, 155 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 3: everybody knew me, and the food was fantastic, the water 156 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 3: was you know, turquoise blue, and the people could not 157 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: have been nicer. And many years later, you know this 158 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: new book I wrote, The Little Iris, set in Greece, 159 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 3: and part of the reason is because I lived there 160 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 3: when I was younger, and I knew a lot about 161 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 3: it and wanted to set a story there. 162 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: You really had quite an eclectic early part of your life. 163 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 3: I did, and then I ended up a sports writer, 164 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 3: which has nothing to do with any of it. 165 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: Did you love sports? 166 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 3: No? Not, particularly when I got into journalism. After I 167 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: worked at that volunteer paper that they gave out in supermarkets. 168 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 3: That helped me get into Columbia Journalism School in New 169 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: York City. And while I was there, I needed to 170 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 3: pay my tuition. I was working as a piano player 171 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 3: at night, you know, trying to pay my tuition, and 172 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: they had a job at the Sport magazine and so 173 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 3: I went over there and I you know, started writing. 174 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 3: And then when I graduated, I wanted to get into 175 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: magazine writing. You know, I wanted to be like Tom Wolfe. 176 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 3: I wanted to write long, big magazine pieces. But all 177 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 3: my clips were sports clips, and so every time I 178 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 3: would apply for a job, they would end up giving 179 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 3: them over to the sports editor and saying, hey, this 180 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: guy writes sports. And so eventually I ended up getting 181 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 3: offered a job as a sports writer in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, 182 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: and I thought, well, I need the job, I'll take it. 183 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 3: And I've been in sports ever since. And I found 184 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 3: that I could actually write a lot of human stories, 185 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 3: a lot of stories about pathos and emotion and things 186 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 3: into sports world because it's a great backdrop. You know, 187 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 3: you've got victory and defeat, and you know people working their. 188 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: Whole lit for ten seconds. 189 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 3: And it turned out to be a great training field 190 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 3: for the kind of writing I would end up doing later. 191 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: While you were doing that, as I understand it, you 192 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: encountered Maury Schwartz, who was a former college professor who 193 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: was dying of als or lou Gerrig's disease. What led 194 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: you to decide to write Tuesdays with Maury? 195 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't really a book thing, to be 196 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 3: honest with you, Maury was an old college professor of 197 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 3: mine who I was very close with in college. I mean, 198 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 3: it wasn't just a guy I took a class with 199 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 3: I took every class he offered. I majored in sociology 200 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: because of him. We were kind of like an uncle 201 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: and a nephew. Really, you know, we sat around campus 202 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 3: and ate together. I went to his home, and then 203 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 3: when I graduated, you know, I promised I would stay 204 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 3: in touch, and then I didn't, you know, became very 205 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 3: self absorbed and very ambitious and working my way up 206 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: the sports writing ladder, and I just. 207 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: Sort of forgot about him. Shame on me. 208 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 3: And then sixteen years later I saw him accidentally on 209 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 3: Nightline with Ted Copple, talking about what it was like 210 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 3: to die from Luke Garrett's disease. That's the only way 211 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: I found out that he was even sick, and so 212 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 3: I was very embarrassed by that, and I called him 213 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 3: up and figuring I would just make one call to 214 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: ease my conscience, and one call led to a visit. 215 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 3: I figured one visit would ease my conscience. And the 216 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 3: first visit was so unbelievable. You know, he was so 217 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 3: calm about dying, and he was so content with how 218 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 3: he had lived his life that when I flew home 219 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 3: that night, I realized like he was seventy eight and dying, 220 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 3: and I was thirty seven and perfectly healthy, and he 221 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 3: seemed more content with his life than I was. So 222 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: I began to go back the next Tuesday, the next Tuesday, 223 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 3: next Tuesday, and all the tuesdays he had left in 224 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 3: his life to try to find out what he knew 225 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: about life that I didn't. And the book only came 226 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 3: about as an accident because he told me one time 227 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 3: that the thing he feared the most wasn't a disease 228 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 3: and wasn't anything physical. It was that he was going 229 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 3: to die and leave his family all this debt, because 230 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 3: he was in debt for all his medical bills for 231 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 3: dying for two years. And so he said, I'm going 232 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 3: to die twice. First time I die and then on 233 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 3: the other side of the grave, when I realized, my 234 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 3: family's going to have to sell their house and I'm 235 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 3: going to be the cause of it. And so I 236 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 3: only got the idea then to maybe write a book 237 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 3: to help him pay his medical bills. And I privately 238 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 3: went around to all these different publishers in New York 239 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 3: trying to find somebody who was interested in it, and 240 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 3: I said, I just need enough money. 241 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: To pay his bills. 242 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 3: I think it's really interesting story an old man talking 243 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 3: to a young man about what's important in life, right 244 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: before he dies. And everybody said, no, everybody boring. You're 245 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 3: a sports writer. It's depressing. Nobody's going to want to 246 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 3: read it. And I honestly I would have given up 247 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 3: newt if it was for me, because I had so 248 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 3: many no's, But because it was for him, you know, 249 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: I kept pushing and pushing until I found one publisher 250 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 3: who was willing to publish it, and just a few 251 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: weeks before Maury died, they agreed to do it, and 252 00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 3: I was able to go to Maury and tell him 253 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 3: him the money to pay his medical bills, and I said, here, 254 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 3: you don't have to die twice, you know. 255 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: Once it's enough for me. 256 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 3: I always said that was the end of Tuesdays with more, 257 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 3: because I had finally learned to do one nice thing, 258 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 3: you know, for this man who had done so many 259 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 3: nice things for me before that. But of course, then 260 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 3: after he passed away, I wrote the book very simply. 261 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 3: I was figuring to go back to my sports writing career, 262 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 3: and they printed twenty thousand copies of it total. I 263 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 3: thought i'd have them in the trunk of my car 264 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 3: for the rest of my life, you know, giving them 265 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 3: out to people when they drove. Hey you want a book, 266 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 3: you know, come by for Christmas and empty out my trunk. 267 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 3: And it just caught on in some way and got 268 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 3: bigger and bigger and bigger. But it was totally an accident. 269 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: But that book sort of made you, oh. 270 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, well that only made me. It turned my life around. 271 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I was an ambitious, one hundred 272 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 3: hour a week, you know, sports writer, and from that 273 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 3: point forward, instead of people coming up to me and saying, Hey, 274 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 3: Who's going to win the Super Bowl, they would come 275 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 3: up and say, my mother died of cancer. And the 276 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 3: last thing we did was read Tuesdays with Maury together. 277 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 3: Can I talk to you about it? You know, And 278 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 3: your reaction is quite different than Who's going to win 279 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 3: the Super Bowl? And you start to realize the pain 280 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: that people walk around with every day and every airport 281 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 3: and every place you're meeting them. Someone's missing, somebody, mourning 282 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 3: for somebody, grieving for somebody, worried about somebody. And I 283 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 3: heard so many of these stories and my world began 284 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 3: to revolve around that kind of thing. And I never 285 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 3: wrote a sports book again. Everything I've written since has 286 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 3: really kind of been a derivative, even fictionally, of the 287 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 3: lessons I learned and Tuesdays with Maury, even though that. 288 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: Was a huge success, it took you six years to 289 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: write your next book. 290 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 3: Well, I was kind of frozen because all the people 291 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 3: who didn't want Tuesdays with Maury now all they wanted 292 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 3: was Wednesdays with Maury, you know, chicken Soup with Maury 293 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 3: and Venus and Mars and Maury and you know like that. 294 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 3: And I said, oh no, I'm not going to do that. 295 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 3: You know, I don't want to turn it into a franchise. 296 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 3: And you know, everything that happened, I wrote, there's nothing 297 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 3: else to say about that book, and well, come up 298 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 3: with something, and so finally I said, well, I think 299 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 3: maybe I'll try a novel. And they said, oh no, 300 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 3: that's a stupid idea. That's a terrible idea. No, no, no, 301 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: you know everybody who writes nonfiction thinks they can write 302 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 3: a novel and don't do it. I said, well, but yeah, 303 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 3: but you said the same thing about Tuesdays with Maury. 304 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 3: You said that was a stupid idea too, So I 305 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 3: think fortunately because I had been rejected once before, I 306 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 3: wasn't afraid to go up against the rejection the second time. 307 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 3: And I knew in my heart that I would never 308 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 3: find a subject that would please Tuesdays with Moury fans. 309 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: If it was a nonfiction subject, they would all say, well, 310 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 3: whoever this guy is, isn't as interesting as Maury. So 311 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 3: I just went the other way and wrote a novel 312 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 3: about a man who dies and goes to heaven and 313 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 3: meets five people from his life, and it was called 314 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 3: The Five People You Meet in Heaven And not would. 315 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: It became a really really successful book, and my career 316 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: as a fiction writer was created. 317 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: I haven't written a friend of Maur of books myself 318 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: to launch two consecutive New York Times bestsellers, one in 319 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: fiction one and nonfiction. That's really pretty remarkable. 320 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if I had thought about it, I 321 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 3: probably would have been too scared to do it. But 322 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 3: you know what they say about when you're younger and 323 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 3: taking chances, you're not afraid of what you might lose, 324 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 3: And so I thought, well, what do I got to lose? 325 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 3: And it worked out. 326 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: Christmas is coming and it's never too early to think 327 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: about what would make the perfect gift for your children 328 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: and grandchildren this Christmas? I recommend you order LUs The 329 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: Elephant seven book series and plush toy from our Gingwish 330 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: three sixties store. Elis the Elephant teaches children lessons of 331 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: America's founding and what makes our country exceptional. It's the 332 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: perfect Christmas gift for little patriots. Order your seven book 333 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: series and plush toy today by going to ginglishtree sixty 334 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: dot com slash store. That's ginglishtree sixty dot com slash store. 335 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: So then you came back with for One More Day, 336 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: which actually debuted at number one on the New York 337 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: Times list and spent nine months on the list. What 338 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: triggered that? Why did you write One More Day? 339 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 3: I used to talk to my mother periodically when I 340 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 3: was writing in the mornings. You know, I'd pick up 341 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 3: the phone if I had a little break and with 342 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: just dollar number. 343 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: And you know, my mom we had. 344 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 3: A great relationship, and she's really encouraging to me. You know, 345 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 3: she was the opposite of what my dad. You know, well, 346 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 3: my dad said, don't be a writer, don't be writer. 347 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 3: My mother said, you do whatever you want to do. 348 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: If it's going to make you happy, do it. I 349 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 3: thought to myself, one day, I'm not going to be 350 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 3: able to, you know, make this call, like what will 351 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 3: be like if she's not here? And I said, I 352 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: know what I'm going to feel. I'm going to say like, 353 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 3: oh no, just give me one more day back, and 354 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 3: I'll say everything that I should have said. And so 355 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 3: I wrote a book about a guy who loses his 356 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 3: mother and his life kind of goes downhill, becomes alcoholic, 357 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 3: and you know, kind of goes back to his hometown, 358 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 3: little hometown where he grew up to. 359 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: Kill himself, and he fails. 360 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 3: And when the son comes up, he goes back to 361 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 3: his old abandoned house, having failed even a killing himself, 362 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 3: and walks into the house and discovers his mother's living 363 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 3: in it as if nothing ever happened, as if she 364 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 3: never died, and she's making him breakfast and he gets 365 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 3: this full day, one full day back on earth with her, 366 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 3: and he's able to sort of say all the things 367 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: that he didn't and kind of figure out how his 368 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 3: life went wrong, and she sort of helps him. 369 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 2: And it ended up being ironically. 370 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: The last book that my mother read, because she suffered 371 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 3: a stroke right after that and couldn't read or talk 372 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 3: anymore after it. So I was glad that I dedicated 373 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 3: it to her, and the timing of it worked out 374 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 3: to be the right thing. 375 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: What's fascinating about your career is, in addition to writing 376 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: both fiction and nonfiction, you've had four of your books 377 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: turned into movies. 378 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 379 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 3: That's an interesting experience, especially when you're one of the characters. 380 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 3: Oprah Winfrey made a movie out of Tuesdays with Maury, 381 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 3: and she invited me to come to the set, and 382 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 3: I said okay, And I went there one day and 383 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 3: they were filming a scene and I looked at it 384 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 3: and it was like they had recreated Maury's office and 385 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 3: there was Jack Lemon playing Maury and Hanka's area was 386 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 3: playing Me. And I got there just as they were 387 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 3: about to film the scene and they said, you know, 388 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 3: all right, everybody quiet, you know, action, And I heard 389 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 3: Jack Lemmon saying, well, Mitch, you know, this is what 390 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 3: happens when you die, Mitch, and all these lines that 391 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 3: were from the book. 392 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 2: And it was surreal because, you know. 393 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 3: It was like watching my own life right in front 394 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 3: of me, you know, with two actors who I knew 395 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 3: very well, all of a sudden, they were using our names, 396 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 3: and one of them looked a lot like Maury, and 397 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 3: you know, they made Jack Lemon up to look like 398 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 3: Moury and I never went back to the set, you know, 399 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 3: like it was kind of spooky. 400 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 2: But they did a great job. 401 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 3: And Jack Lemon ended up winning the Emmy for that 402 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 3: and Hank his area and the movie and all that. 403 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 3: And I remember Jack Lemon when he got nominated for 404 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 3: the Emmy. I called him up and I said, congratulations. 405 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 3: You know, I think you're going to win because you 406 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 3: did a great job. And he said, thank you, thank you. 407 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 3: And I teased him and I said, just remember, if 408 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 3: you win, don't forget the writer, because they always forget 409 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 3: the writer. You know, they thanked their dog catcher and 410 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 3: they thanked the woman next door or whatever they do. 411 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 3: And he said, okay, okay, okay. And so of course 412 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 3: he ends up winning. And when he went up to 413 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 3: make his acceptance speech, the first thing he said was, 414 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 3: you know, I spoke to Mitch Album months ago about 415 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 3: this and he said, don't forget the writer. So I'm 416 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 3: going to say it thanks to him. You know this, 417 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 3: we wouldn't have had any of this if not for him. 418 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 3: So it was very very very sweet. You know, that 419 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 3: was my first experience in your movies, your books becoming movies. 420 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 3: And then they made one out of the Five People 421 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 3: You Meet in Heaven, which I wrote, and that was 422 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 3: a surreal experience because these things that are in your imagination, 423 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 3: like I had. There was an amusement park was the 424 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 3: backdrop of the book, and I created the whole amusement 425 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 3: park from my imagination. And then you walk onto this 426 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 3: set that they build and it looks just like your 427 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 3: imagination made it look, only they created it from scratch. 428 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 3: You know the name of the pier, the rides, all 429 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 3: the rest of it, which are things I made up, 430 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 3: and it's right in front of you. So, as I say, 431 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 3: it's sort of a surreal thing to see something come 432 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 3: to life in a movie. 433 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: Was it a challenge to take fiction that you had 434 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: written and then turn it into a script For shooting script? 435 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 3: It is, you have to lose most of it. People 436 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 3: don't realize, you know, how deep a book is. People 437 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 3: always saying the movie wasn't like the book. And I 438 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 3: always say, if you made the movie exactly like the book, 439 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 3: like each scene that you have in the book was 440 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 3: actually a scene in the moving The dialogue in the 441 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 3: book was a dialogue. The movie would be one hundred 442 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 3: and fifty hours long. So most of what you do 443 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: is just cut and you cut, and you cut, and 444 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 3: you cut and you cut, and then you really have 445 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 3: to get down to the essence of what the book 446 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 3: was about. And I think in some cases other people 447 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 3: can do that better than you can. 448 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: I wrote three of my movies. 449 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: We have some other ones that are being done now, 450 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 3: and I'm just as comfortable with somebody else writing it 451 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 3: because it's really kind of a different thing. 452 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: I'm currently watching a series called The Offer, which is 453 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: the making of The Godfather, and Pujo, who'd written this 454 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: extraordinary book, has the same problem because they hire him 455 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: to write the movie scripts. He's never written a movie script, 456 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: and he doesn't know how to do it. And it's 457 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: fascinating to watch have that whole sense of the complexity 458 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: of As one of the guys said, this is about 459 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: a series of snapshots. You know, you got to go 460 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: through the book and figure out the right snapshots because 461 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: that's all you got time for. 462 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 3: I'll tell you something that John Voight played Eddie in 463 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 3: The Tuesdays with Maury and he taught me a great 464 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 3: lesson once like that. I had written a scene very 465 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 3: much like the scene in the book where he confronts 466 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 3: his father in heaven and his father isn't talking to him, 467 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 3: and he says something to him, you know, like talk 468 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 3: to me, dad, you know, come on, dad, talk to me, 469 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 3: you know, forgive me Dad, And John Voyd says to me, 470 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 3: can I ask you something? I said, yeah, I said, 471 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,959 Speaker 3: why do you have me saying this three times? I said, because, 472 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 3: you know, like I did in the book, it's really important. 473 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 3: He says, let me say it once and I'll do 474 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 3: the rest on my face, and I thought, uh, that's 475 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 3: the difference between movies. 476 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: That's really good. That is a great line which I 477 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: will keep now. Beyond all of this, which is really 478 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: quite amazing. You also became a playwright, which has its 479 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: own kind of discipline and rules and things that are 480 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: different than either a movie or a book. 481 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, much different playwrights. That's where you want to go 482 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 3: if you want to feel important, because the writer is 483 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 3: king in the stage world. The writer is just accessory. 484 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 3: In the movie world. You're lucky if you get invited 485 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 3: to the screening. But in the playworld, the playwrights words are. 486 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 3: You know, first of all, it's all about dialogue. And 487 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 3: I had great opportunity to write the play of Tuesdays 488 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 3: with Maury with Jeffrey Hatcher. I didn't know anything about 489 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 3: writing plays at that point, but I had learned from 490 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 3: him and from some other good play rights. They said 491 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 3: that Herb Gardner, the wonderful playwright of a Thousand Clowns 492 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 3: and other people like that. He took me in and 493 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 3: kind of became a mentor, and he said to me, 494 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 3: all of theater is about somebody wants something from somebody else. 495 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 3: Just synthesize it down to somebody wants something from somebody else, 496 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 3: and that's the essence of every great play and everything. 497 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 3: And I've always kept that in mind when I wrote 498 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 3: Tuesdays with Maury with Jeffrey Hatcher, and then I wrote 499 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 3: a number of plays afterwards as a result of it. 500 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 3: And it's a very dialogue heavy thing. You know, nobody cares. 501 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 3: You don't write what something smells like, or what the 502 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 3: wall looks like or anything like that. It's just people talking. 503 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 3: And that's its own kind of discipline, own set of rules. 504 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: Just further expand your amazing range of talent. You're also 505 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: a songwriter and lyricist. 506 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 3: Well, that goes back to my music days. I wasn't 507 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 3: very successful when I was trying to be a musician. 508 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 3: But when you don't try and you get into some 509 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 3: other field, suddenly you find out like musicians like hanging 510 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 3: out with writers. And I ended up befriending a lot 511 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 3: of guys through our terrible band that I've told you about, 512 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 3: the rock Bottom Remainders, including Warren Zevon, a guy who 513 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 3: did were Wolves of London and all the rest of it, 514 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 3: and he ended up asking me to write him a 515 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 3: song one time, which I did and he recorded it. 516 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 3: I've ended up having songs and movies that I've done, 517 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 3: and I've had much more success as a musician once 518 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 3: I decided not to be one than I had when 519 00:24:46,320 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 3: I was trying to be one. 520 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: Your newest book is very, very timely in that The 521 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: Little Liar is the first one you've done set during 522 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: the Holocaust. Why did you decide to write about the Holocaust? 523 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 3: Well, I didn't really decide to write about the Holocaust. 524 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 3: I wanted to write about truth. And the book is 525 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 3: narrated by the voice of Truth. It begins with you 526 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 3: know you can trust the story you're about to hear. 527 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 3: You can trust it because I'm the only thing in 528 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 3: this world you can trust. 529 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: I am truth. 530 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 3: And it tells the story of a little eleven year 531 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 3: old boy living in Greece who's never told a lie 532 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 3: in his life and a little girl in his village 533 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 3: who loves him, and when the Nazis invaded, they find 534 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: out about his honesty and they decide to use it 535 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 3: as a weapon, and they trick him into standing on 536 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 3: the railroad tracks and telling the people who get into 537 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 3: the trains that they're going to someplace good and new. 538 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 3: They're going to have jobs and homes and everything's going 539 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 3: to be fine, and thinking that he's telling the truth 540 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 3: and that if he does this, they'll let him go 541 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 3: back to his family. He does this for a couple 542 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 3: of weeks until on the very last train he sees 543 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 3: his family and this little girl that he loves shoved 544 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 3: into the box car, and he finds out that these 545 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 3: trains are actually going to Auschwitz and the concentration camps, 546 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 3: and he realizes that the first lie he's ever told 547 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 3: in his life is going to be the worst lie 548 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 3: he's ever going to tell. In his life, and the 549 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 3: book follows him and the girl that he loves and 550 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 3: his family and even the Nazi who tricked him for 551 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 3: the next forty years, and shows the ramifications of that 552 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 3: one lie on all their lives, how it changed him, 553 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 3: the girl, the family, the Nazi. And it's kind of 554 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 3: a parable about truth and forgiveness because he spends the 555 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 3: rest of his life trying to be forgiven for what 556 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 3: he was tricked into doing, and his family tries to 557 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 3: find him, and so does the girl to forgive him, 558 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 3: but their lives have so changed that you know, it 559 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 3: takes decades for them to find each other again. Really 560 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 3: set out to write something about the Holocaust or even 561 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 3: about events of today, but it turns out that it's 562 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 3: pertinent to both. 563 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: If you put the book in Greece, why'd you pick Greece? 564 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 3: Well, as I told you, I lived there for a 565 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 3: period of time as a nightclub singer and a piano player, 566 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 3: and so I knew more about Greece, probably than the 567 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 3: average guy who lives in Detroit does, which is where 568 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 3: I live. And a lot of people don't realize that 569 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 3: the Nazis even invaded Greece, that the Holocaust came there, 570 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 3: and they certainly don't realize that Thessalonica, which is a 571 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 3: city where I set the book, was actually the largest 572 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 3: majority Jewish population of any city in Europe. Everybody thinks 573 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 3: it would be in Poland or in France or something 574 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 3: not true. Thessalonica had close to like thirty seven percent 575 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 3: was Jewish before the war, and within three years was 576 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 3: wiped out, just totally eliminated. And I thought, if I can, 577 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three tell a story about the Holoca 578 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 3: that people didn't know, it only goes to show you 579 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 3: how vast and awful that event was, and that there's 580 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 3: still things that we need to be hearing about, even 581 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 3: at a time when there's very few people. 582 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 2: Left alive to be able to share those stories. 583 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: It's amazing. And I think the way in which you 584 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: have the whole story narrated by truth itself, it really 585 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: does in some ways take you back to Tuesdays with 586 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: Maury and the whole notion of seeking a larger meaning 587 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: and seeking something like truth and love which transcends normal 588 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: human behavior. 589 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 3: Well, I always remember that Maury said to me before 590 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 3: he died that one of the things he regretted the 591 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 3: most in his life was an argument that he had 592 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 3: with a friend of his that crumbled their friendship, and 593 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 3: he started to cry when he told it to me, 594 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 3: and he said, you know, I found out a couple 595 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 3: months ago that he died of cancer, and I never 596 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 3: had a chance to make it up to him. 597 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 2: And he started to weep and just weep. 598 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 3: He said, why did I let that nothing conversations separate us? 599 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 3: All I wish is that I could hold his hand 600 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 3: and tell them what a great friend he was, but 601 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 3: I never will. 602 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 2: And he looked me kind of square on. 603 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 3: He said, Mitch, if there's anybody you care about in 604 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 3: your life who you're fighting with or feuding with, let 605 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 3: it go. 606 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 2: Just let it go. He said, forgive. 607 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 3: Everybody everything, and then forgive yourself, because when you get 608 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 3: to the end of your life, you're going to wish 609 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 3: that you had done that. And I took that very seriously, 610 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 3: and I've tried to live my life that way, never 611 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 3: holding grudges, and anybody that I care about, if I 612 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 3: get into something, I resolve it, because you never know. 613 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 3: When you don't get the chance, the next day they're gone. 614 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 3: And so in a little liar, you know, forgiveness becomes 615 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 3: a big part of the theme and what is truth 616 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 3: and what is forgiveness? If not sort of seeking the 617 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 3: truth of what happened and what went wrong. So in 618 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 3: some ways The Little Liar poses the question of, you know, 619 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 3: what's the biggest lie you ever told and what would 620 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 3: you do to be forgiven for that? 621 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: Lot and alcoholics anonymous, seeking reconciliation and forgiveness for the 622 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: things you've done to hurt others is a very significant 623 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: part of getting your act together and being able to 624 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: live without addiction. So in that sense, The Little Liar 625 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: you've touched on a central core of human beings. What's 626 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: also fascinating is you have a podcast called The Tuesday 627 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: People and you've been doing it for four years. How 628 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: often do you do it and what's your focus? 629 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 3: So we do it every week on Tuesdays. The reason 630 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 3: I decided to do it was as we were getting 631 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 3: close to the twenty fifth anniversary of Tuesdays with Maury, 632 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 3: somebody asked me, well, is there something that you can 633 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 3: do differently, you know, write something for the book or whatever. 634 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: And I thought about it. 635 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 3: I said, you know, Tuesdays with Mary's pretty well known. 636 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 3: It's not a whole lot more that I can, you know, 637 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 3: say about it. But then I realized that I had 638 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 3: all these tapes from my conversations with Maury that I 639 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 3: had never really shared with anybody, and so I thought 640 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 3: about the audio medium, and I thought, well, why don't 641 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 3: I do a podcast where every week I share some 642 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 3: of our conversations and we review those lessons. But as 643 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 3: seen through the lens now, I'm a lot closer to 644 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 3: Mary's age than I am to mine back then, and 645 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: I am sort of, you know, taking his role as 646 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 3: the teacher now but using his words. And so we're 647 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 3: able to play all these different clips because we recorded 648 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 3: all of our conversations, and it's been very sweet for 649 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 3: me to listen to that, you know, because I'm listening 650 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 3: to myself from twenty five, twenty six years ago, and 651 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 3: my voice still sounds similar, younger, a little higher like 652 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 3: up here. But the way I converse and the way 653 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 3: that Maury teases me and I tee, there's a lot 654 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 3: of laughing and there's a lot of teasing, you know, 655 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 3: along with the life lessons. There's a lot of crying 656 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 3: that you hear Maury do. And I was just going 657 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 3: to do it for like six months, but it just 658 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 3: keeps going because there's so many tapes. 659 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: So people can go to where they get podcasts. Put 660 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: in the Tuesday people. 661 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Tuesday people. 662 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: That's great. So one last language is the middle of 663 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: all your creativity. You also are very deeply committed to 664 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: helping other people, both in Detroit and in Haiti. Could 665 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: you chat a little bit about what you do and 666 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: why are you doing? 667 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 2: Sure? Well? 668 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 3: A lot of this also stems back to Tuesdays with Maury, 669 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 3: when Maury said to me one time, what do you 670 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 3: do for charity? And I said, what do you mean? 671 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 3: He said, well, what do you do for people in 672 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 3: your community? I said, I write checks? And he said, well, 673 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 3: anybody can write a check. You have been given a voice, 674 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 3: and you need to use your voice for something more 675 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 3: than just a grandizing yourself. I never forget that, because 676 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 3: who uses the word a grandize in a sentence except Maury. 677 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 3: And so I started my first charity that year, which 678 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 3: was a scholarship fund for kids to study the arts 679 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 3: in Detroit, and then I began to get a little 680 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 3: bit more deeply involved, more to be involved than In 681 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 3: two thousand and six, they had the Super Bowl here 682 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 3: in Detroit, and I read a story about a Super 683 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 3: Bowl party for homeless people, which I couldn't understand what 684 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 3: the heck that was, so I looked into it and 685 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 3: it turned out it was a euphemism for getting all 686 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 3: the homeless people off the streets in Detroit and putting 687 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 3: them into this big shelter so that they wouldn't bother 688 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 3: the customers. And then on Monday morning, right after the 689 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 3: Super Bowl, they were going to kick them out back 690 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 3: out into the street, and I thought, this is just 691 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 3: really cruel, and so I went down to a homeless 692 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 3: shelter and spent a night there to write a story 693 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 3: about what it was like to really need a shelter 694 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 3: and how why you can't give that to people and 695 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 3: then just take it away from them. And while I 696 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 3: was in line at the shelter for the meal, this 697 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 3: guy in front of me looks, turns around, it looks 698 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 3: me up and down. He says, aren't you Mitch Album. 699 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 3: I said yeah, and then he looked me up and 700 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 3: down again. He said, so what happened to you? And 701 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 3: you know, first I laughed and he was dead serious. 702 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 3: Then I realized, well, yeah, I guess you know, he 703 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 3: probably never expected to be on this line either. So 704 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 3: I was very taken with that, you know, like it 705 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 3: was one of those moments that kind of stayed with me. 706 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 3: And a column about it, and I asked people to 707 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 3: help give money to just keep the homeless in that 708 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 3: shelter at least until April when it warmed up. So 709 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 3: I was seeking sixty thousand dollars, and within a week 710 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 3: I had three hundred and twenty five thousand dollars just 711 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 3: from people sending in five and ten and twenty dollars donations, 712 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 3: and so I had to do something with it, and 713 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 3: so I looked into it, and I formed this charity 714 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 3: called Say Detroit Super All Year Detroit instead of Super 715 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 3: one Weekend. And it's grown from that in two thousand 716 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 3: and six to it's now a multimillion dollar operation that 717 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 3: handles ten different operations, all of which we've created here, 718 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 3: everything from infants five days old up to senior citizens. 719 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 3: We opened the first medical clinic for homeless children in 720 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 3: America was here in Detroit. 721 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 2: We operate that. 722 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 3: We operate a rec center after school for three hundred 723 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 3: kids that has a digital learning center, a recording studio, 724 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 3: football fields in the most dangerous neighborhood in Detroit. We 725 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 3: even have a bicycle factory where we create jobs refurbishing 726 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,720 Speaker 3: or building bicycles that we then give out to people 727 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 3: in Detroit because transportation here is such a challenge, so 728 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 3: people can't get to work or can't get to school, 729 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 3: and so we provide free bicycles. So I've done all 730 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 3: that and that's grown into something quite big. And I 731 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 3: take my role in my hometown here of Detroit very seriously, 732 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 3: and I think I've been blessed. A lot of people's 733 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 3: most common question is why do you stay in Detroit? 734 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 3: Why do you stay in Detroit? I can't believe you 735 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 3: live in Detroit. You know why you're still there. I 736 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 3: love it here and I'm very proud of being from here. 737 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 3: That's my involvement in Detroit and in Haiti. I operate 738 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 3: an orphanage in Haiti that I've been operating since twenty ten, 739 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 3: and I'm there every month of my life. For about 740 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 3: seven to nine days of every month, I spend there 741 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 3: running the orphanage, and we have currently sixty five children. 742 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 3: We always have about sixty sixty five children, and as 743 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 3: they graduate, they get college scholarships. I've got twelve of 744 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 3: them right now in university here. Michigan and one in 745 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 3: medical school. Haiti is just a remarkable and sad place 746 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 3: on many levels. It's the second poorest country on Earth. 747 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 3: It's the poorest here in the Western Hemisphere. It is 748 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 3: lawless right now and without government. We have to take 749 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 3: armored cars just to get to the orphanage from the 750 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,240 Speaker 3: airport and have bodyguards with us. 751 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: This is a topic I'm very fascinated by. We have 752 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: been in Haiti off and on since nineteen twenty three 753 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: and we haven't been able to fix it. It's a human 754 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,720 Speaker 1: tragedy and it has predatory behaviors that makes life miserable 755 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: for everybody who's not predatory. The military's intervened several times, 756 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: nothing gets improved. What's your gut instinct, and since you 757 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: have a personal knowledge of the country, what has to 758 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: be done so that Haitians can have a decent life. 759 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, they have to make education available. 760 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,439 Speaker 3: And it may sound simple, but you have to pay 761 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 3: to go to school in Haiti, and that's a device 762 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 3: that the rich use to keep the poor down. You 763 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 3: can't raise up an educated class of people if nobody 764 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 3: can afford to go to school. And every time a 765 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 3: politician comes along promising to make school free, somebody in 766 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 3: power undermines them and make sure it doesn't happen. So 767 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 3: right from the very beginning, they have to make sure 768 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 3: that people get educated. And then you have to somehow 769 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 3: find a way to get a leader there that isn't 770 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 3: corrupt or corrupted by the previous leaders, because corruption is 771 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 3: absolutely endemic to Haitian government. The people are remarkable. They're resilient. 772 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 3: The kids are amazing. We have children who have been abandoned, 773 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 3: left under trees to die, you know, left in holes 774 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 3: in the ground and muddy fields, no birth certificates, no 775 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 3: record of who they are. 776 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 2: We have to give them names and make up birthdays. 777 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 3: And yet they have a joy for living and a 778 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 3: resilience and a faith that is unparalleled. And I wish 779 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 3: I could explain to people why it's important to help 780 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:02,800 Speaker 3: out in Haiti. 781 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 2: And you know new because you're an educated man in government. 782 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 3: We ran Haiti for fifteen years, We wrote their constitution, 783 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 3: we kept their money in our banks. We have a 784 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 3: history there, we have an obligation there. And it's not 785 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 3: just some little island off the Florida coast, so to speak. 786 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 3: And it's only seven hundred miles away from us, and 787 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 3: yet the way people live their life, expectancy there is 788 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 3: like twenty years less than here, just because of the condition. 789 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,319 Speaker 3: So I wish that our leaders were more dedicated to 790 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 3: doing something there. Unfortunately, you know, it's not a lot 791 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 3: of political benefit to helping Haiti. Of course, if China 792 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 3: suddenly decided to come in there, or Russia or whatever, 793 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 3: we'd be there in a hurry. Witness what happened just recently. Well, 794 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 3: with all these gangs. We have five people living with 795 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 3: us at our orphanage who have to live with us 796 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 3: because they had gangs walk into their homes with guns 797 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 3: and say get out now, no clothes, no anything, get out. 798 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 3: This is our house now and they have no place 799 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 3: to go, so they live with us. The country lives 800 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,280 Speaker 3: under that kind of fear and control of these gangs. 801 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: I think it's one of the great tragedies of our time, 802 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: and it ought to be fixable. But to fix it 803 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: you would have to defeed evil, and we're not very 804 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: good right now at doing that. 805 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 3: No, I wish there was a formula that I knew 806 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 3: how to do that. So I always say I can't 807 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 3: fix Haiti, but I can fix a tiny little corner 808 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,879 Speaker 3: of it, and that's why I'm there and I will 809 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 3: be for the rest of my life. 810 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: If enough people take on the desire to be helpful 811 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: that you have both in Detroit and Haiti collectively will 812 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: eventually produce a better planet with better living conditions. Mitch, 813 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: this has been fascinating. You've had a remarkable life that 814 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: has sort of unfolded before you. I can kind of 815 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: sense that you kept drifting forward and the next thing 816 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: would open up, and then the next thing. So I 817 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: really want to thank you for joining me. I want 818 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: to remin mind our listeners that your new novel, The 819 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,760 Speaker 1: Little Liar, is available on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere, 820 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: would make a great holiday gift. I encourage everyone to 821 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: pick up a copy. You can read more about Mitch's 822 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: work on his website at Mitch album dot com. And 823 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: I want to further say thank you for the work 824 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: you've done both for the people of Michigan and the 825 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: people of Haiti with all your philanthropic work, and thank 826 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: you for what's been I think an amazing conversation. 827 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 3: Well thanks, I've really enjoyed talking to you and I appreciated. 828 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,760 Speaker 3: Happy holidays to everybody in your audience. 829 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Mitch Album. You can learn 830 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: more about his new book, The Little Liar on our 831 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced 832 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is 833 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for 834 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to 835 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: the team at Gingrish three sixty. If you've been enjoying 836 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,879 Speaker 1: newtswe I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both 837 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: rate us with five stars and give us a review 838 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,760 Speaker 1: so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, 839 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 1: listeners of neut World can sign up for my three 840 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: freeweekly columns at gainwrischree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm 841 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: Newt Gingrich. This is neut World.