1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel podcast. I'm Paul swing you. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Brahmas. Each day we 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: and your money, whether at the grocery store or the 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple podcast 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as at 7 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. There was a minute there when a 8 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: reflation trade was taking hold and people were expecting a 9 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: steepening of the yield curve an increase in future inflation expectations. 10 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: What happened because we are seeing right now the ninth 11 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: straight day of yield curve flattening. Drewmatics, chief market strategist 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: for MetLife Investment Management, joining us right now, Um from Whippany, 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: New Jersey. Drew, thank you so much for being here. 14 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: I want to start with the flattening yield curve and 15 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: get your sense of how important it is to keep 16 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: track of nine straight days, the longest stretch since November 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: two thousand, fifteen of yield curve flattening in the US. Well, 18 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a coincidence. When you know the 19 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: good days or days and the curve steepening, and you 20 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: can see that US markets, and you can see people's 21 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: optimism begin to rise and people begin to think, hey, 22 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: we're heading towards a more normal environment. Um. And then 23 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: you have the days of flattening, where you know, you 24 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: can have updates in the market despite that, UM, but 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: people become a little more concerned about what the future 26 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: might hold UM. And of course you can you can 27 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: argue the causations working one way or the other. But 28 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: I think broadly speaking, what we want to see is 29 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: a steepening Yol curve. I think what the FED wants 30 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: to see is a steepening Yol curve. What they want 31 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: is a curve that's steep enough that if they want to, 32 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: they could actually hike rates again. Not that that's on 33 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: their mindset for something near term, but longer term, they'd 34 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: like to see things normalized enough where they could push 35 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: rates higher. Again. Do you think the we even have 36 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: any green shoots of that as it relates to the 37 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: underlying economy. Uh? Well, I think if you're the FED 38 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: and you've been blaming kind of uncertainty on on kind 39 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: of why you were cutting to begin with, uh, you know, 40 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: we have seen some movement on trade, We're seeing some 41 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: movement in your or UM. Lots of areas of uncertainty 42 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: are becoming UM, we're beginning to see pathways towards less uncertainty, 43 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: so a conclusion being reached UM or moving towards that conclusion. 44 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: The problem we have now is that there's so many 45 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: different things, and there's so many potential outcomes from trade 46 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: and from politics and from the European story, that because 47 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: there's so such complexity there, you can't figure out how 48 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: to price everything, and so people then default to I'm 49 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: going to be risk on or I'm going to be 50 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: risk off, because they really can't put a value on 51 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: all the things that are going on right now. That said, 52 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: you've seen a steady decline or at least remaining stable 53 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: of five year five year of break even rate. It's, 54 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 1: in other word, as another gauge of future inflation. You're 55 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: not seeing a concept of reflation taking hold in broader 56 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: derivative and bond markets. And I'm just wondering whether that 57 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: signals that they've fed really ought to cut rates again. Well, 58 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: I you know, I don't think so. I think you know, 59 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: first of all, you know, the headline of or current 60 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: inflation that the FED follows, it's actually very close to 61 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: their target. So even when they were cutting rates and 62 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: saying inflation is not high enough, they were actually very 63 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: close to their target. I think any other federal reserve 64 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: that hadn't been through the financial crisis would have been 65 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: saying we're close enough and we're happy with that. UM. 66 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: So there's this fixation on pushing inflation, you know, significantly 67 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: higher or higher to the target and above, as opposed 68 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: to just being nearer the target UH. And I think 69 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: that could end up backfiring on the Fed UH simply 70 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: because you know, really, if you're going to focus on 71 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: that last twenty basis points are so of kind of 72 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: inflation that you want to achieve, you might lose sight 73 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: of the fact that, you know, the rest of the 74 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: economy seems to be doing well, and if there is 75 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: an inflation surprise, it's going to put you well above 76 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: a target that you're happy with. UM. So you know, 77 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: maybe a grind higher is better when you're approaching your 78 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: target than a than our sharp move higher. So Drew, 79 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: given the strong performance we've had across many asset classes 80 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: here in and even comparing it from the lows of 81 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: the fourth quarter of last year. As you look at 82 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: the where do you see the most opportunity? Uh? You 83 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: know the problem is with evaluations where they are you 84 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: know that there aren't a great number. You know, there 85 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: there isn't a lot of opportunities. So I would I 86 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: kind of take it and and and put it in 87 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: this way. UM. You know, if you're going to be 88 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: investing in the current environment, you want to be aware 89 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: of the risk that you're taking, and you want to 90 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: know how those risks could evolve. UH. And I think 91 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: you know, often times, you know, people think they're taking 92 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: one kind of risk and and they find out that, 93 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: in fact, they were taking a different kind of risk. Um. 94 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: And and so I think you know, as we're looking ahead, 95 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, our view is that you know, the next 96 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: year looks good. The year after though one, UH is 97 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: are likely timing for a recession. UM. So you know, 98 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: when we're thinking about things, were thinking about, you know, 99 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: when's the NEXTRA session coming, and how do you prepare 100 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: for that? Um? And you know, I think a lot 101 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: of people and there are a lot of forecasts out 102 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 1: there now where people have very high probabilities of recession. UH. 103 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: You know, banks are saying that there's a high probility 104 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: of recession, but then you look at their forecasts and 105 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: there's and there's no recession within their forecast. Um, And 106 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: I think that's something people have to be on the 107 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: watch out for. So just quickly here, Drew, recession, how 108 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: do you trade that? Now? Well, you begin to make 109 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: sure that you're comfortable with all the exposure you have, um, 110 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: and that you know you're you you know, in the 111 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: near term at least you know there's still some opportunities, 112 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: but you don't necessarily want to you know, um, you 113 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: might want to date those opportunities instead of marrying them. So, Drew, 114 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: interesting one call. I mean, it's interesting right here. Did 115 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: that suggests to you that maybe the FED doesn't have 116 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: as much MS they think that they do, Uh, you know, yes. 117 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: So you know, I think if we're thinking about where 118 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: the FED is going to head from this point, they're 119 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: not going to be hiking rates next That's not our view. 120 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: Our view is that the next move will be lower. 121 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: But at the same point, we don't think they're gonna 122 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: be moving at all next year. Truemattus, thanks so much 123 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: for joining us. We appreciate your commentary. Drew as the 124 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: chief market strategist for MetLife Investment Manages, joining us on 125 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: the phone. China is agreeing to take a harder stance 126 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: on intellectual property theft as part of the ongoing trade war. 127 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: Is hard to know exactly how to frame this though, 128 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: given that there are not that many more details. But 129 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: luckily we have Henrietta Trees joining us now to help 130 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: us do that, director of Economic Policy Research at Beta 131 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: Partners joining us from New Orleans. Um, Henrietta, what don't 132 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: you make of the IP theft news that was coming 133 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: out overnight? How seriously should markets be taking this? I 134 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: think it's at first glance good news. What we've seen 135 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: from President she in the past is when they are 136 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: making concessions or doing things that the Americans have been 137 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: asking of Beijing, they tend to announce it separately or 138 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: um in advance of any kind of deal being reached 139 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: that they can present as though they've just independently decided 140 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: to make this movie. We saw that on the Financial 141 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: Markets Access opening up. Um. They've done this I P 142 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: theft type of extractions several times in the last few years. 143 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: So on the one hand, it bodes well for Hey, 144 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: maybe there's something that could be announced in the coming 145 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: days in terms of the Phase one deal, and they're 146 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: trying to get out in front of that and appear 147 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: more autonomous than doing it of their own volition. But 148 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: at the same time, there's not very many details. Um 149 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: One of the things that concerns me is that this 150 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: is happening apps in a Phase one deal being announced 151 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: or even uh deadline or set meeting for Vice Premier 152 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: Lucha and USTR Life Heiser to even meet um let alone, 153 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: Presidents Trump and President she meeting to ink a deal. 154 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: So a lot of this is happening outside of any 155 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: comprehensive details on Phase one, and of course enforcement remains 156 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: the number one issue for me. So Henrietta, can you 157 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: just give us a reset kind of where we are 158 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: or really where the Chinese are in terms of they're 159 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: thinking about how incentive are they to get a Phase 160 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: one deal. I think right now the goal is to 161 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: avert List four B tariffs, which is about a hundred 162 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: and sixty billion dollars of consumer facing goods set for 163 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: the summer fifteenth, And what I'd encourage investors to do 164 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: is sort of separate out the ability of the United 165 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: States and China to come to an agreement that staves 166 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: off at the summer fifteenth escalation from necessarily reaching a 167 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: Phase one deal. Um in my view, we are already delayed. 168 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: We've already moved the goldmost. We're entering into week seven 169 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: of the Phase one trade deal being announced, which was 170 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: set to be a three to five week you know, 171 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: wrapping up final negotiations period. So we've already delayed since 172 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: stance rely, and based on what we've seen from the 173 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: administration of the last two years, they're pretty comfortable pushing 174 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: out deadlines um, so December fifteenth moving to let's say January, February, 175 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: March fifteenth, or even being suspended altogether, as was the 176 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: case with the escalation on Lists one, two, and three 177 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: rising in their tariff rights from I think it is 178 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: distinctly possible and doesn't necessarily have to be a Phase 179 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: one deal. The problem is the longer this takes to work, 180 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: the more other components are happening in the ether, like 181 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: the Hong Kong protests or the impeachment proceedings in the 182 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: United States. The lack of a U s m c 183 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: A vote time continues to pick by and Phase one 184 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: deals are not being reached into vacuum. So I'm hopeful 185 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: that we won't see the tariffs, but that doesn't mean 186 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 1: we have to see a phase one deal. So Phase 187 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: one was supposedly soybeans AGG purchases the easy stuff that 188 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: has run into roadblocks. We're hearing with questions about enforcement 189 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 1: and just how much as far as a number figure goes. 190 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: China's agreeing to buy intellectual property theft was suppos to 191 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: be phased two, according to my understanding, because I thought 192 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: that this was one of the harrier things. So can 193 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: you try to square the idea that we're running into 194 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: issues with soybean purchases, which was supposed to be the 195 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: easy stuff, and we seemed to be getting something an 196 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: IP theft, which was the tough stuff. That's such a 197 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: good way to phrase it, if I'm not mistaken. The 198 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: September of the most recent orders were three month lows 199 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: on soybeans as China's getting just out today, right, So 200 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: really interesting development. And you I think that's a great 201 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: point that you make. Um when it comes to AGG purchases, 202 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: I think we should maybe think about the diversification that 203 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: we've seen from China, So the most prominent I think 204 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: would be in terms of protein sources. Having them signed 205 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: that poultry deal a week or two back. That was 206 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: a really tremendous development that I think constitutes systemic reform, 207 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: Like the administration has been trying to seek out in 208 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: as you suggest, I P theft or any kind of 209 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: major significant uptaking agriculture purchases. So we're seeing it on 210 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: some areas but not on others. Are importing pork to 211 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: at least some extent, and then the the poultry component 212 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: could be a billion dollar industry once they get those 213 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: trade lines reopen. The soy piece is an unfortunate decline, 214 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: but if you are dealing with what less pork in China, 215 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: they need less soy to feed them, So I guess 216 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: it does track the I p ST component, though, just 217 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: like with everything else is you really need technical details 218 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: and we have none of those. So Persident Trump alluded 219 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: to I P theft in some way, shape or form 220 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: being included in a Phase one deal, and if this 221 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: is the extent of it, then it's not nearly enough 222 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: to constitute systemic reform. And I think, and just to 223 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: sort of sound like a broken record, it comes down 224 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: to enforcement. If China is agreeing to make changes and 225 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: they're hoping that the United States will back up, back 226 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: off on further tariffs or take off whole baskets the tariffs, 227 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: which is what I think a lot of investors are 228 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: hoping for and the Chinese absolutely want. UM. This is 229 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: a way to incentivize the United States to get more 230 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: comfortable with easing the enforcement components and taking tarifs off 231 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: before they reach any kind of final agreement you know, 232 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: on phase two or phase three or what have you. 233 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: UM And unfortunately, just don't see US t R Lifehiser 234 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: agreeing to take off tremendous amounts of tariffs. One of 235 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: the things that I try to advise our clients about 236 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: all the time is to say, look, before tariffs come 237 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: off on entire product lines and huge you know list 238 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: for a baskets are lifted entirely, recognize that the usc 239 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: R has a comprehensive one, two and six month enforcement 240 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: strategy that he has already laid out for us that 241 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: I think will more likely results in the initial step 242 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: being to reduce tariff rates, not to reduce the overall 243 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: basket of goods that are our tariffs. So for instance, 244 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: the list for a tariffs, which are a hundred and 245 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: twelve billion dollars worth of goods. Instead of taking all 246 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: that add and twelve billion dollars off, you drop the 247 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: rate from fift to ten percent and then maybe six 248 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: months later reassess and and that's how lifehiser will allow 249 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: for enforcement of ever trying to commit to on I 250 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: p or ADD purchases for that matter. So Henrietta just 251 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: about thirty seconds. What happened to the feeling maybe six 252 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: months ago that the Chinese We're just gonna wait and 253 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: take their bets with whoever's in the White House. Then 254 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: my understanding is that the US Hawks in China really 255 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: got spooked by the Administration's decision to dramatically escalate cariffs 256 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: in mid August. The White House has been walking that 257 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: back ever since, as we've seen um, but that was 258 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: the big game changer in that the administration and specifically 259 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: President Trump acted way outside the bounds of what US 260 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: Hawks and China expected, and they might be better off 261 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: reaching a Phase one deal now and hitting the pause button, 262 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: which I think is really what a Phase one deal is, 263 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: just an opportunity to hit pause through the elections. So 264 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: hopefully we get to that. Henrietta Trades, thank you so 265 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: much for joining us. Some really smart commentary there on 266 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: the ongoing U S. China trade negotiations. Henrietta is the 267 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: director of Economic Policy Research for Veta Partners. During us 268 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: on the phone from New Orleans with some you know, 269 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: some really interesting commentary as it relates to the tariffs, 270 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: and that's one we got to really focus on the Crofts. 271 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: I thought what she said was really telling the idea 272 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: that China's that we can expect China to announce concessions 273 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: that they make ahead of any deal that gets reached, 274 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: so that it seems like it's coming from their own volition. Well, 275 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: another risk on day today in the markets, some optimism 276 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: about China trade and what a year it's been in 277 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: the smp fient year to date. A lot of folks 278 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: are starting to look forward to seem about how they 279 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: should position our portfolio. We can get some good color 280 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: from our next guest, Clark Kendall, President CEO of Kendall Capital, 281 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: joining us on the phone. Clark, thanks much for joining us. 282 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: You know a lot of folks dealt with the pain 283 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: and experience the pain of the fourth quarter last year, 284 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: but then we're more than rewarded by the upside here 285 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: in SMP up about year to date. What are your 286 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: thoughts for the remainder of the year and heading Yeah, 287 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: so far this has been a great year. Um, we 288 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: are the investment managers for the middle class millionaire in 289 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: the in the Washington, d C. Area. I think, you know, 290 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: we've got to try to get away from just predicting 291 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: the market but looking for opportunities within the market. Okay, 292 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: so where do you see opportunities? Well, as I always say, 293 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: it's sometimes it's easiest to know where not to invest. 294 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: I think the ten year Treasury at one point nine 295 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: is not attractive to me. The I p o s basically, 296 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: the I p o s have come to market this 297 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: year have come to market because they're starving for cash 298 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the coin. And on top 299 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: of that, the nifty fifty, the top fifty stocks of 300 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: the SMP, are at huge value shoes, So I think 301 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: the other four fifty stocks create great opportunities in today's market. 302 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: Are there certain sectors, Clark that you think maybe have 303 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: been left behind? Some people were suggesting maybe some international stocks. 304 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: Maybe even maybe I'm going to the risk curve for 305 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: emerging markets. What are your thoughts on where there might 306 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: be some value. I think there's some great value. I 307 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: like to look at things of price to cash flow. 308 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: I think the fact that Schwab's buying t D and 309 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: merrit Trade is a great example of a company looking 310 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: in that foreign and fifty looking for cash flow. The 311 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: fact that Walgreens is looking to go private, Why are 312 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: they looking to go private because the cash flow is 313 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: so strong. So I think there's some great companies out 314 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: there in that four hundred and fifty where the cash 315 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: flow is quite strong. So going into a lot of 316 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: people are expecting a bit of a resurgeons in economic prospects, 317 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: at least in the first half of the year, and 318 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: then for that to sour in the second half. That 319 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: seems to be the consensus. What are you advising your 320 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: clients do heading into next year? Well, I think kind 321 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: of predicting how fast the GDP will grow, where interest 322 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: rates will go the short term, that's very hard to predict. 323 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: Jeremy Pal basically pointed out we're in a good spot. 324 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: We have low inflation, we have low interest rates, we 325 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: have low GDP, we have all low unemployment, and I 326 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: think we take advantage of that. We look at things 327 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: like Norwegian Cruise Lines a great example of a company 328 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: having strong cash flow with low unemployment people. It's a 329 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: relatively cheap, cheap vacation. Things like United Rental. I mean, 330 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 1: we're the economy is still growing and you know they 331 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: have a great profit margin, great cash flows. So I 332 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: think there's continues to be great opportunities in our economy. 333 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: So Clark one of the areas that has really been 334 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: the driver both on the downside. Do you think about 335 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: the fourth quarter last year than the upside? Uh? This 336 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: year has been technology and particularly some of the Fang stocks. 337 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: Is that a group that is attractive to you or 338 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: do you think it's just just too rich? I think 339 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: I think we need to be very cautious with the 340 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: Fang stocks and all the stocks in the nifty fifty. 341 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: Well remember at the turn of the century. Um everyone 342 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: at the turn of the century head Cisco and Dell 343 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: qual Calm in their portfolios. Qual Calm has you know, 344 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: revenue and earnings are up seventeen times at the stock 345 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: prices two thirds the value was nineteen years ago. So 346 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: I think we need to be cautious and That's why 347 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm saying go back to the fundamentals. Price to cash 348 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: fell everyone's index thing. But I think there's great opportunities 349 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: for the portfolio managers that pay attention to valuations. Clark Kendall, 350 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Clark Kendall, 351 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: President and Chief executive Officer of Kendall Capital, joining us 352 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: from Maryland. Well, it looks like Uber has run into 353 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: another roadblock in London, losing their license over rider safety concerns. 354 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,959 Speaker 1: The stock is off about one point three percent today, 355 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: off about from its I p O. We should say 356 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: they have appealed that, so it's not a completely final 357 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: thing yet. Absolutely, let's get the latest. Nate Langston, European 358 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: technology editor for Bloomberg News, joining us from our London 359 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: radio studios. So Nate, give us the latest on what's 360 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: going on with Uber and the city of London. Yeah, well, 361 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: a couple of It's just it's probably worth stepping back, 362 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: just very briefly, because a couple of years ago, when 363 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: Uber's previous full license M was refused a renewal, it 364 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: immediately had to appeal and was allowed to continue operating 365 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: for several months while that appeal took place, and to 366 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: just over two years on from that, the same thing 367 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: has happened again. It was applying for a new license 368 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: and it was refused, and now Uber is appealing that 369 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: license and is able to carry on operating at least 370 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: while the appeals process goes through, so cars aren't being 371 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: pulled off the road. Drivers can will accept new rides. Um, 372 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: But obviously it's a huge blow in in one of 373 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: the biggest markets that Uber has outside of the US. 374 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: How do we view this? Is this a political issue 375 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: with some of the other cab drivers in the city 376 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: of London winning a political battle here versus a legitimate 377 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: complaint that regulators have against Uber. There is a legitimate 378 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,239 Speaker 1: reason for complaint here. They did TfL who's our our 379 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:31,479 Speaker 1: transit authority? Here did find evidence of many journeys fourteen 380 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: thousand journeys at least being being made by drivers who 381 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: either didn't have a license or even had had their 382 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: license revoked in the past. And I think that that 383 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: speaks for itself as to the political angle. Um, if 384 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: you ask any black cab driver here in London whether 385 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: they like Uber, you'll get a pretty unanimous response that 386 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: they do not. And Siddik Khan, who's the Mayor of London, 387 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: is on the Labor party side of the political spectrum 388 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: here and he's come out in support for what TfL 389 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: has done as well. And there's a very big union 390 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: support on the labor side for for the black cab industry. 391 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: So it's it is easy to think that there's a 392 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: there's an element of political motivation here, but fundamentally, the 393 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: decision is for the regulator, which is a political and 394 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: that's the that's the body that's made this decision and 395 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: had the final say. So, Nate, give us a sense 396 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: of how the good people of London view their black 397 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: taxi cab fleet. I mean, when I'm in London, I 398 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: just think it's a joy to use. It's a great, 399 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: great service, it's a great experience and I can trust 400 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: it with what we have had to deal with here 401 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: in New York. Um, So, is there a public support 402 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: for the black cabs or people just saying, hey, we 403 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: want the cheapest ride, the easiest ride, the most convenient ride. 404 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: I mean for anyone coming in from out of town. 405 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: I imagine there's a there's a lot of fun in 406 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: getting a black cab, and certainly you know, they're good 407 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: vehicles and and they're very convenient, but for for most 408 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: people who who live here, it's basically it comes down 409 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: to cost and who's going to be fastest. And because 410 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: Uber is so pervasive across the capital. You know, there's 411 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: forty five thousand drivers just in London alone, it's it's 412 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: easy to just to become very, very fond of Uber. 413 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: And personally, I I use Uber many many more times 414 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: than I do a black cap for for personal and 415 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: for work. So the I don't think the cab industry 416 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: has any reason to be any more worried than it 417 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: was before. But I also don't think they're they're going 418 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: to lose any business to people coming in from overseas 419 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: who who just liked the novelty maybe of taking a 420 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: black cap. How crucial is London to Uber's europe strategy 421 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: at this point, Well, it's one of the biggest markets. 422 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: Um it's I think it's one of the fifth most 423 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: of the fifth most lucrative city for Uber in total. 424 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: Um So it's very very important. But it's but it's 425 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: not the only one. You know, Uber is active in 426 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: many cities across the continent, and I think that losing 427 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: London will send a very challenging message to other cities. 428 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: But I think it's going to necessarily be a black 429 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: hole for the whole European arm of the company. So now, 430 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: what's the next um step? Four? I guess Uber here 431 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: they're appealing it, do they have a hearing? And what's 432 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: kind of the timing here? Well, if the timing follows 433 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: a similar step to what we saw in twenties seventeen 434 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: when this when this happened last time, they Uber filed 435 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: the appeal that year in September and hearing took place 436 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: in June the following year. So there's a several month 437 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: window for that appeal to even hit the first the 438 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: first magistrates court. So I would, I would certainly, we 439 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: haven't any information to suggest that that that would be 440 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: any different this time. If Uber were to lose that 441 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: appeal um in in several months time, potentially it could 442 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: still take this all the way up to the Supreme 443 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: Court here, and that's a process that's you know, it 444 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: could be measured in years rather than months. And throughout 445 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: this process, Uber has the legal right to continue operating, 446 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: so I sir, and we don't see any reason for 447 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: for drivers to be to be overly concerned in the 448 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: near term, and certainly not before next year. Nate Lanston, 449 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Nate Lanson 450 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: UH covers all things technology related. Bloomberg European Bureau. Thanks 451 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: for listening to the Bloomberg pen L podcast. You can 452 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever 453 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at 454 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa A. Bram Woyds. I'm on Twitter 455 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 1: at Lisa bramwo wits one before the podcast, you can 456 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio.