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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm alcome to staff. I've never told your protection of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: And welcome to another Monday Mini where I just talk

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Speaker 3: about personal things.

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Speaker 1: Excellent. You't ready for that any I don't know, am I.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question. Beforehand, I am going to put

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Speaker 3: this trigger warning. I am going to talk about sexual

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Speaker 3: abuse a little bit, and we're going to just talk

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Speaker 3: about like you know, rus, vagina, all those things. So

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Speaker 3: if you don't want that to be talked about in public,

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Speaker 3: or you don't want to have it out loud, you

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Speaker 3: might want to pass by this one indoor, save it

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Speaker 3: for a private moment or in your air pods. I

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Speaker 3: don't know any of those things, because you know this week.

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Speaker 3: Last week, I realized that my IUD is overdue. So

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Speaker 3: essentially I've hit my five year mark with the Kylina

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Speaker 3: and I am not being sponsored by any of these

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Speaker 3: right now. Just FYI, we've had many episodes about IUDs

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Speaker 3: on here. Well, you've talked about it personally. I've talked

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Speaker 3: about it personally. I know. Uh. Previous hosts Caroline and

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Speaker 3: Kristen talked about it. Caroline talked about her experience and

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Speaker 3: they actually shared my experience too, which was hilarious because

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Speaker 3: we had very different reactions to it. My first experience

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Speaker 3: with IUD was so simple that I went running that

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Speaker 3: same day because I did not It did not bother me.

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Speaker 1: I say, it has a lot.

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Speaker 3: To do with like your pain, your period pains in general,

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Speaker 3: and I grew up with really bad period pains, So

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Speaker 3: when getting that IUD in, I was like, uh, okay, cool.

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Speaker 1: I will say.

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Speaker 3: When I got my IUD in, my guide to Collegiest,

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Speaker 3: who is a woman, played it off really easily, was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you'll be fine, because I was like, I heard these

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Speaker 3: following things in which UH co host Caroline at the

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Speaker 3: time talked about it on here that she threw up

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Speaker 3: and she saw spots and she had this really uh

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Speaker 3: painful experience versus myself, who I was like, yeah, that's fine, okay.

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Speaker 3: She literally was like, you want to take some ibuprofen.

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Speaker 3: Here's a little local anesthetic and done. And it pinched,

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Speaker 3: and I moved on getting it removed because right as

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Speaker 3: the Trump administration came in, it was kind of on

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Speaker 3: the edge of like, this is the time I was

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Speaker 3: supposed to get it taken out, and she was like, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, technically the ID I had previously, the Morena

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Speaker 3: couldn't last up to seven years. So she's like, you

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Speaker 3: could wait, and I was like, but it's the Trump

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Speaker 3: administration and I don't know what's going to happen and

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Speaker 3: what's going to be no longer allowed or banned. So

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Speaker 3: I was like, let's go ahead and change. It's five years,

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Speaker 3: let's go ahead and change it. And so I got

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Speaker 3: my new one. So I've now hit my five year mark.

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Speaker 3: Since then, Yeah, it was around that time it was happening.

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Speaker 3: Things were happening. Roe v Wade was looking really precarious.

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Speaker 3: We were all like, oh my god, Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: So I got it changed, and now if hit my

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Speaker 3: five year mark, and I'm like, okay, let's go back,

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Speaker 3: and I've kept essentially the same guyancologist.

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Speaker 1: I really liked her.

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Speaker 3: She was a younger, non white person as mycologist. Again,

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Speaker 3: like I said, her reactions to like, oh, you'll be fine.

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Speaker 3: These are the things. And that was when I was

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Speaker 3: initially back and getting a new one.

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Speaker 1: It pulled. It hurt.

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Speaker 3: Actually getting it changed out hurt a lot more than

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Speaker 3: either one getting used to It hurt a lot more

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Speaker 3: because it could be like six months to get used

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Speaker 3: to it. So like, getting past those marks were a

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Speaker 3: big deal, and I understand like people like I don't

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Speaker 3: want to do this, and I get that getting past

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Speaker 3: that has been amazing because I've not had a period

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Speaker 3: in like ten years and I am not unhappy about it.

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Speaker 3: Every now and then again I get the phantom pains

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Speaker 3: PMS period pains that I'm like, oh, why is this

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Speaker 3: Because it's not accompanied by actual period blood or blood,

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Speaker 3: I don't realize what it is, but I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: but these are the symptoms. I do remember this, and

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Speaker 3: recently it's gotten a little worse, and I'm wondering it's

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Speaker 3: because I'm at the end of this IUD period, I

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Speaker 3: like expiration, and so I'm starting to feel a little

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Speaker 3: more pains. Still isn't still no bleeding, so I'm thinking okay.

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Speaker 3: But with all of that comes the horror in my

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Speaker 3: mind of like, what if it's traveled. What is one

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Speaker 3: of those things that has gone on the wrong place,

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Speaker 3: It's gone into my uterus and I'm really, really this

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Speaker 3: is going to be bad, trying to get it out.

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Speaker 3: What if I'm pregnant and is an ectopic pregnancy and

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Speaker 3: because of the laws in the state of Georgia. I'm

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Speaker 3: because they won't let me do what I need to

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Speaker 3: do and think they're going to like replant it or something,

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Speaker 3: which is a misconception and not possible. I know I'm

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Speaker 3: speaking to the like I'm speaking to our audience, so

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Speaker 3: they know I know. But just just in case people

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Speaker 3: are work confused, that's not a thing. But all of

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Speaker 3: that to say it is like, Okay, it's time for

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Speaker 3: me to go. Last time, when I went to see

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Speaker 3: my gotten in colleges, she had an intern, someone in

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Speaker 3: med school that was shadowing her. It ended up being

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Speaker 3: a man, and I didn't love that. But because I

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Speaker 3: don't know how to voice anything, and as secure as

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Speaker 3: I seem and as like bold as I seem, I'm

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Speaker 3: very insecure and I don't want to rock the boat.

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Speaker 3: So he came in with her and she's like, is

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Speaker 3: this okay? And I was like, ah, yeah, okay, And

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Speaker 3: I again was not a huge fan of this. But

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Speaker 3: he did some of the examinations and he was fine.

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Speaker 3: But for many of us who have gone through trauma

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Speaker 3: with men, didn't love this. I like, it's like see

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Speaker 3: it in the back of my head of like, oh

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Speaker 3: my god, this is awful.

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Speaker 1: I did not want this.

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Speaker 3: Next go round, I ended up going seeing the kind

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Speaker 3: ofcologist my regular one was not available, so I saw

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Speaker 3: a different woman, but they initially tried to give me

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Speaker 3: a man. I was like, no, no, no, that's the

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Speaker 3: one thing I don't want. Please don't give me a man.

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Speaker 3: I had a different young woman. She was fantastic. It

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Speaker 3: didn't have any issues. She was confused because I essentially

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Speaker 3: used my gynecologist as my primary care physician, because I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I didn't realize I could do that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let this.

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Speaker 3: Makes it easier because I don't want to go to

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Speaker 3: ten different appointments for all the different things. I went

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Speaker 3: in with her for a wellness check. Everything was fine

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Speaker 3: this time around. I was also ready to go, and

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Speaker 3: they were like, can you come in today? We have

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Speaker 3: a doctor soul and so I was like wait because

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Speaker 3: the name was like generic enough that sometimes it's use

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Speaker 3: for women. I know this, and I was like, is

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Speaker 3: that a man? Like I had to officially ask. She's

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Speaker 3: like yes, and I was like, okay, no, I would

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Speaker 3: rather be like I'm uncomfortable with that. I'd i'd rather

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Speaker 3: this person that I've known she's not available for a

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Speaker 3: while because she's now popular and very very booked, and

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Speaker 3: she's like, well, the next available appointment is in two months,

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Speaker 3: three months. And I was like, good god, what I'm like, okay, well,

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Speaker 3: just so you know, I need a new IUD. I'm

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Speaker 3: having some weird symptoms. I'm a little worried and.

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Speaker 1: Like all these things. She's like, Okay, well, we'll put

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Speaker 1: you in for cancelations.

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Speaker 3: YadA, YadA, YadA, and which made me really think about

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Speaker 3: the fact that there's a chunk of us and this

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Speaker 3: is historically and factually understood that women typically prefer to

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Speaker 3: have other women physicians for a gynocologists, like that's been

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Speaker 3: the statistics. As in fact, here's what health careers dot

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Speaker 3: com says, is impossible to ignore the fact that many

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Speaker 3: women want a woman practitioner, says one doctor, that's because

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Speaker 3: they feel most of the female physicians are more empathetic.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it is for comfort level, since patients are in

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Speaker 3: a vulnerable position during a pelvic exam. Lastly, an exam

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Speaker 3: maybe gentler since most women have smaller hands than their

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Speaker 3: male counterparts. The preference for a female isn't just anecdotal,

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Speaker 3: as a twenty sixteen review in Obstetrics and Guidecology notes,

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Speaker 3: the authors looked at twenty three studies including fourteen seven

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Speaker 3: hundred and thirty six patients, and determined that quote, the

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Speaker 3: majority of women surveyed fifty point two percent preferred female

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Speaker 3: over a male obgyn, eight point four preferred a male,

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Speaker 3: and surprisingly forty one point three had no preference. So

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Speaker 3: very very very small number of women are like, yes,

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Speaker 3: I would rather have a man. Of course, this continues.

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Speaker 3: There's no discounting the woman woman potential for a warmer

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Speaker 3: exchange in the office, and there's no question that it

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Speaker 3: as better communication between doctor and patience. It goes on,

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Speaker 3: say this one woman doctor, she's enjoyed those patient relationships

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Speaker 3: and knows they flourish because women are smart, talented, thorough,

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Speaker 3: and empathetic to patients. Again, we had that earlier manny mania.

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Speaker 3: Any broad about patients to women, doctors are more likely

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Speaker 3: to live, Yeah, it's likely to die in general and

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Speaker 3: obgyn no exception. I think probably more so. And it

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Speaker 3: goes on to talk about how specifically like what their

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Speaker 3: conversations are like, and what it looks like to have

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Speaker 3: a woman kind of being like a mother figure or

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Speaker 3: a sister figure being able to talk to you because

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Speaker 3: they know how this feels. Although there is a reminder

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Speaker 3: because there's also been horror stories where women doctors do

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Speaker 3: associate their own experience and displaces them onto their patients,

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Speaker 3: and their experience may be completely different. So they may,

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Speaker 3: like me, not had that much pain, and so assume

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Speaker 3: everybody's like that, which is not true, which is cannot

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Speaker 3: be true, and there's different levels of pain also also

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Speaker 3: like with things like indiemitriosis and all those other unknown

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Speaker 3: even ailments that happened that people have dismissed for years

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Speaker 3: that they are not often talked about enough. Again, we

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Speaker 3: also talked about the amount of time that a person

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Speaker 3: spends with a doctor. I will say my initial doctor,

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Speaker 3: she was great, but then the second time along, even

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Speaker 3: though she didn't remember me, it was much quicker, and

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Speaker 3: maybe because she had like a fuller plate, the newer

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Speaker 3: doctor that had gone to the young woman.

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Speaker 1: She was young and.

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Speaker 3: Fairly new practicing, so she was a lot more like

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Speaker 3: detailed with me, also a lot more confused on some

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Speaker 3: of the things I requested. I was like, oh, this

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Speaker 3: is interesting, but all this to say, like this was

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Speaker 3: a back and forth in my head, like is there

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Speaker 3: a reason beyond like what I assume? Again for me specifically, yes,

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Speaker 3: mine is a trauma reaction. And I don't think I

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Speaker 3: ever told any of my doctors this. And this is

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Speaker 3: where I'm like, just so ya, No, I have a

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Speaker 3: vivid memory slash dream like one of the things that

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Speaker 3: I remember. Again, it may have been a dream, but

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Speaker 3: it's it's associated with something because this is a young

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Speaker 3: childhood where I was getting exammed as a five year

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Speaker 3: old in.

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Speaker 1: A room full of men.

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Speaker 3: And when I say exammed, I'm talking about like a

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Speaker 3: literal gynecological exam.

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Speaker 1: Why would that happen for a five year old? There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions.

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Speaker 3: I just have a vivid, vivid picture of being surrounded

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Speaker 3: by men in a room while I was being examed.

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Speaker 3: So like all these things, that is such a vivid

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Speaker 3: and wild picture for me that scares the living daylights

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Speaker 3: out of me, even to this age, because I'm like,

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Speaker 3: these are some of the reasons I have repressed memories.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember a lot from my childhood. I just

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Speaker 3: know I have a lot of fear when it came

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Speaker 3: to men in general, and then growing up, so like

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Speaker 3: all of that to say, for me, there was a

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Speaker 3: reason like no, I don't I don't want a man,

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Speaker 3: And of course with that there's this a level of like,

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Speaker 3: ok but there is a bias obviously from me because

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Speaker 3: of that trauma response. And it's not their fault and

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Speaker 3: it's not my fault. And they're been articles upon articles

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Speaker 3: honestly saying please choose a man, and these are from

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Speaker 3: obviously men. In fact, one article written by doctor Lawait saying,

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Speaker 3: who is a Singaporean opguy.

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Speaker 1: N Uh.

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Speaker 3: It's like, these are the six reasons you should you know,

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Speaker 3: come to a man, like he specifically says this, and

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Speaker 3: then one says they can be easy to talk to.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, so are women maybe more so?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: And then the next one was males can understand female

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Speaker 3: anatomy too, and I was like, okay, okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: So sure.

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Speaker 3: The next one was like they are equally experienced, and

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Speaker 3: that could be true, like when it comes to like

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Speaker 3: medical practices and learning, they all go through the same training,

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Speaker 3: they all go through the same uh education, But once

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Speaker 3: again that that personal experience can be different as well

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Speaker 3: as we understand that the narrative is that men often

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Speaker 3: try to go higher up very quickly, so sometimes don't

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Speaker 3: have that personal understanding. It says men could be easy

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Speaker 3: to talk to. They said it again. I just realized

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Speaker 3: they really want so, like, there's actually five reasons, and

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Speaker 3: then then you just added one more to it to

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Speaker 3: give you six. They are carrying in humorous and they

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Speaker 3: broke the common stereotype, and I'm like, no, that's not

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Speaker 3: actually true because in the different article they talk about

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Speaker 3: how gynecologists explain why there's so many men in the profession,

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Speaker 3: and so I'm like, so many maybe in comparison to

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Speaker 3: they're not saying that it's more men, but they're saying

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of men. Stanford summary of the study

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Speaker 3: noted that females typically requested females us, possibly due to the

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Speaker 3: expectation of kindness and combession, but then after initial awkwardness,

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Speaker 3: female patients do seem to want male doctors, and in

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Speaker 3: that article it says at this point, the data shows

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Speaker 3: that men tend to prefer gynecology, while female trainees lean

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Speaker 3: towards obstetrics, which focuses on pregnancy, childbirth, and the postpartum period.

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Speaker 3: This could also be down to gender based hurdles. Gynecology

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Speaker 3: is a slightly more surgical specialty compared to obstetrics, and

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Speaker 3: surgery has always been a slightly more male dominated area,

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Speaker 3: which comes with its own challenges. A doctor says, surgical

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Speaker 3: training can be pretty intense with really long days, which

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Speaker 3: can be tricky if you're trying to juggle training with

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Speaker 3: having a family and working part time. Isn't always easy.

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Speaker 3: The same doctor as that women can also still face

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Speaker 3: sexism in the workplace, though that it's changing, and acknowledge

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Speaker 3: that the issue she has raises also face women outside

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Speaker 3: the medical profession. So yes, Obviously that conversation is that

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Speaker 3: sexism still exists even in a.

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Speaker 1: Field that specialized for uteruses.

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Speaker 3: So I find that interesting in that conversation because in

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Speaker 3: another article they do talk about how oftentimes even in

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Speaker 3: the higher ups in this field is still men, so

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Speaker 3: it is still dominated by men even though there's lesser

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Speaker 3: of them in this field. All of those conversations come

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Speaker 3: into play. I found several articles that I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to get too much into it about trauma informed care

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Speaker 3: for obgy ends and what is noted, they do talk

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Speaker 3: about clinical indicators of possible past sexual trauma in the

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Speaker 3: which they say not able to feel fetal movement. Some

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Speaker 3: women have numbed the part of the body, so apparently

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Speaker 3: that could be a sign. Chronic pelvic pain, missed prenatal appointments,

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Speaker 3: panic with vaginal exams, extreme anxiety, disassociation, So all of

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Speaker 3: those things could be signs. But also all those things

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Speaker 3: could be coming because you were like, this is about

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Speaker 3: my vagina, and this is awkward, and I don't know

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Speaker 3: what to do because it's so it's so taboo in general,

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Speaker 3: like vaginas are so taboo in general, and people are

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Speaker 3: ashamed of it. They have the shame culture of what

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Speaker 3: it is, to the point that many people don't go

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Speaker 3: to the guy in colleges in general when they desperately,

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Speaker 3: when everybody desperately should do it, and they do tell practitioners,

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Speaker 3: you know, what they can do to minimize those types

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Speaker 3: of pain about like, you know, they should be mindful

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Speaker 3: of the embat lets of power, yes, in this the

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Speaker 3: doctor type power. And then with that, of course, came

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Speaker 3: article upon article about different abuse cases that happened that

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Speaker 3: are all generally men. I didn't see any statistics that

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Speaker 3: show that there were more cases of abuse in UH

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Speaker 3: obgyn than any other practice. I didn't see that, but

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Speaker 3: the ones that I did see were all men, Like

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Speaker 3: it was a male uh practitioner. And that's again that

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Speaker 3: that small inkling of like could this happen to me?

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Speaker 3: Because there was like some of the witness statements work.

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Speaker 3: I thought this was part of the exam, and then

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Speaker 3: realizing later that it was actually really sexual, and you're like,

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Speaker 3: wait what. And again, though I have definitely I know

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Speaker 3: mal o bg I ns, and they've talked about how

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Speaker 3: like it's just a body part, just like any other things,

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Speaker 3: and they have no connection to it, and you have

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Speaker 3: to disassociate because this is not sexual to them at all,

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Speaker 3: which is what you want to hear. But at the

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Speaker 3: same time, things have happened where you're like, hmm, but

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Speaker 3: is it? And then there was one small article and

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Speaker 3: I realized this publication was an extremely white, right winged

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Speaker 3: teen magazine, which I've talked about before and I believe

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Speaker 3: we talked about them and our Christianity episode. But their

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Speaker 3: title is mel oeg y Ns are some of the

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Speaker 3: most prolific predators in society, and they're flying under the radar.

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Speaker 3: So I don't want to play into that either because

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Speaker 3: I would say probably more like church priests and preachers.

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Speaker 3: But okay, we'll just leave it there. But in that

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Speaker 3: like that, that's that conversation, like that does also maybe

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Speaker 3: that's a part of what's in my brain. That's a bias,

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Speaker 3: that's like that fear could be true. I think about

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Speaker 3: that dentist too though, because I've heard horstories about dentists.

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Speaker 3: I'm having no time. This has everything to do with

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Speaker 3: my trauma. But again it comes back to like I'm

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Speaker 3: interested in why men chose these professions more so than

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Speaker 3: anything else. Not that they can't, and not that any

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Speaker 3: profession is not. It should be wide open and should

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Speaker 3: have open opportunities and equal opportunities, and we've always said that,

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Speaker 3: but it does fascinate me about why do men want

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Speaker 3: to be in gynecology?

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Speaker 1: Is it for the money? Is it easy?

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Speaker 3: Because like we've talked about how like social work and teaching,

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Speaker 3: it is mainly women nominated fields and then we have

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Speaker 3: but when a man does come in there get celebrated

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Speaker 3: a little more so they're the more like celebrity and

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Speaker 3: it is at that same level like they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you're doing something unique, and not like you really care

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Speaker 3: about women in this field, or you really care about children,

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Speaker 3: which is such a feminine thing, or any of those

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Speaker 3: level that I wonder if that's part of the appeal.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I just went down this rabbit hole of like,

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Speaker 3: how how often do we see this? How do we, uh,

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Speaker 3: I guess, combat it or ease our nerves? And should

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Speaker 3: I give this? Should I have given this man a chance?

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Speaker 3: Because I'm like, now I have to wait three months? Also,

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Speaker 3: can we talk about the healthier system that like I,

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Speaker 3: I have these symptoms, I'm a little worried, and they're like, well,

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Speaker 3: if anything bad happens, go to the er or our

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Speaker 3: argent care, which is like ten times the amount of

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Speaker 3: what you have to pay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, our systems, it really is. They're trying to kill

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Speaker 1: people with uterses and marginalized people. Anyway, Yeah, that's another episode.

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Speaker 2: I will say. I know I've told the story before,

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Speaker 2: so I won't do it again. But I was traumatized

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Speaker 2: by my first right is it too? A gynecologist And

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Speaker 2: he was.

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Speaker 1: A huge broad man, so it was a man.

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Speaker 2: It was a man, huge, and I was fifteen and

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Speaker 2: he didn't really tell me anything, and then he told

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Speaker 2: me he was going to call my dad and tell

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Speaker 2: him I'm pregnant. And if you ever listened to Thirteen

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Speaker 2: Days of Halloween, the first story I have on there

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Speaker 2: red velvet is based on the trauma I went through

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Speaker 2: after I wrote it in school.

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Speaker 1: I feel like he should have been reported.

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Speaker 3: Is there a statute of limitations on that he?

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Speaker 2: He legitimately traumatized me. And when that whole Trump thing

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Speaker 2: was happening, I wanted to get an ID even though

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Speaker 2: like I was aming sex.

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Speaker 1: But I was just like, just in case.

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Speaker 2: But I said, I knew I was gonna I'm too,

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Speaker 2: I was gonna need some kind of drugs or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was going to panic. So I never did it.

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Speaker 2: But that's I mean, that's the extent of what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about and why it's important, because yeah, you shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be afraid to get healthcare, right, to just look after yourself.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: But here we are. Here we are, and I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you in two months and everything's okay. Three months.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 2: On that grim note, we have heard from so many listeners. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: we love hearing from you, but it's unfortunate how many,

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Speaker 2: how many of you have had experiences like this. We

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Speaker 2: appreciate you taking the time to share them because we

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Speaker 2: do think this is really important to talk about. So

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Speaker 2: if you would like to contact us about any of

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Speaker 2: this or any resources or information you can. You can

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Speaker 2: email us at Steffania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

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Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at most of a Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff Whenever told You.

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Speaker 2: We're also on YouTube and onto public and we have

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Speaker 2: a book you can get wherever you get here books.

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Speaker 2: Thanks as always too, our super producer Christine, our executive

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Speaker 2: ducer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks

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Speaker 2: to you for listening Stuff and Never Told You. Inspection

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Speaker 2: of I Heart Radio for a podcast or my heart Radio,

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