1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: And today I wanted to start with the question I'm 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: going to try to do my best big lebowski boys. 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:28,159 Speaker 1: What makes some mammal? Uh? Yeah? Thinking about mammals, what 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: are a few common features of mammals? Of course, we 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: know that all mammals are vertebrates, along with birds, reptiles, amphibians, 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: and fish, they get the backbone going on. Mammals, along 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: with birds, are of course endothermic or warm blooded, which 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: can that can sometimes be a misnomer because, as we've 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: discussed before, there are cases where mammals can cool their 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: bodies down quite a bit. Most mammals, excluding monotreams, have 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: live berths rather than laying eggs. Mammals generally have hair 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: as opposed to scales or feathers, right, unless they've lost 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: that hair by becoming aquatic creatures or for reasons yet unknown, right, 17 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: or for living underground, etceter Right, Yeah, yeah, and then 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: we get to the big one, of course, It is 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: that mammals nurse they're young, with milk, and this is 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: one of the real miracles of nature. It is really, 21 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: and we're not just We're not just saying that because 22 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: milk has such an important role in human child rearing, 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: or because humans have this weird thing where we drink 24 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: the milk of other species, especially around the holidays. You know, 25 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: this is kind of a slightly holiday themed episode because 26 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people drink eggnog boiled custard type drinks, 27 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: which are more traditionally milk based. Is eggnog a dairy product. 28 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: I thought it was made with eggs. I have no idea. 29 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's cream in there. I mean, obviously if 30 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: you can get the soy nog, which I have memories 31 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: of being tasty, and yet this year I do. Yeah, 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: I have memories. I see like I saw it in 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: the store. I got kind of excited. I got a 34 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: particular carton of soy nog, brought it back home to 35 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: share with my son, Um who is Um Who's who's 36 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: six and uh and he said, oh, this is good. 37 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: This tastes like wet cold sugar. And I was like, yeah, 38 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: it does kind of taste like wet cold sugar. It 39 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: doesn't have this particular I don't want to damn all 40 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: soy nog because I have to be remembering something real. 41 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: But this particular one, yeah, did not have that fatty, creamy, 42 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: uh finish to it anything, but like normal full fat 43 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: milk products always does have a kind of strange sweetness 44 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: to it. You're noticed the odd sweetness of skim milk. 45 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: There's something feels a little off about it. Yeah, I 46 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: mean it's been a while since I've had skim milk. 47 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: I do tend to just use um, like soy milk, 48 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: almond milk, coconut milk, that kind of thing these days. Um, 49 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: And thus my desire to get in the Christmas spirit 50 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: by buying soy nog. Right, But so okay, it's not 51 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: just the role in human culture that we use the 52 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: milk of other animals in our cuisine, which is pretty 53 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: much objectively weird. I think that's one of those things 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: aliens would come to Earth and see us doing and 55 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: think was weird. But it's also that it's it's a 56 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: deep part of what we are as an animal. The 57 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: possession of memory glands and the rearing of children with 58 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: milk is uh that that's like a main morphological feature 59 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: of what it means to be a mammal. The word 60 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: mammal basically means like breast beast. Yeah, we are a 61 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: bunch of breastbeasts really so yes, it nourishes our offspring 62 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: and in doing so helps to establish immune system competence 63 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: as well. Now, the exact nutrient composition of milk is 64 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: going to vary across a lot across species, and it 65 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: also can change quite a bit depending on the different 66 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: stages of lactation, which is something that's easy to overlook. 67 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: Milk is not just necessarily oh, here's the here's the 68 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: formula coming out, and know the formula will change. The 69 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,559 Speaker 1: actual nutrient load will will vary depending on the developmental 70 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: stage of the young, So milk fat content and seals, 71 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: for instance, can be as high as six. Meanwhile, it's 72 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: basically nothing in wallabies. And speaking of wallabies, according to 73 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: the Origin and Evolution of Lactation by Capuoso and Acres 74 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 1: Posting two thousand nine, quote milk in the tamer wallaby 75 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: that's uh. Macropus eugeny changes from a very dilute secretion 76 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: containing primarily carbohydrate during early lactation to a more energy 77 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: dense milk that contains substantial quantities of protein and fat 78 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: during late phases of that left lactation. So that's a 79 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: nice example of just how the the the the exact 80 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: details of the milk will change during the course of 81 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: the the young's growth. Now, we could probably devote a 82 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: whole episode or multiple episodes in the future to the 83 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: study of milk, true biological mammal milk, because that's a 84 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: fascinating subject on its own, But today we wanted to 85 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: focus on something even weirder, which is all of the 86 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: non mammal quote milk that's out there. There has been 87 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: an astonishing amount of research that I had not kept 88 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: up with until diving into it recently about all about 89 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: animals you would just never expect to produce milk, producing 90 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: something like milk, Yeah, I have to say this also 91 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: forced me to learn about a couple of different creatures 92 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: I was not familiar with then we brought to my 93 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: attention solely because they produced something that one might call milk. 94 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,119 Speaker 1: So this will be our anomalous milk episode. But before 95 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: we get into the anomalous milk, I guess it's worth 96 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: a quick look at actual mammal milk itself. Right now, 97 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: I know You've done some episodes on dairy products and 98 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: on mammal milk in the past, right, Yeah, there's there's 99 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: an older episode that I did with Julie Douglas back 100 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: in the day, and then more recently did an episode 101 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: with Christians Say titled Uh Holy Butter. As the name implies, 102 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: it's mostly about butter and how we make butter and 103 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: some of the uses we have for better Did you 104 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: all talk about bog butter? Yes, we did talk about 105 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: bog butter. Bog butter is so good. Yeah, but we 106 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: also talked about how butter and also milk, is nothing 107 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: short of solar energy transformed through a few different steps 108 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: into a food. For instance, there's the of course, the 109 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: the alchemy of photosynthesis to kick things off. The grass 110 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: in the field converts energy in the form of sunlight 111 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: into chemical energy in the form of sugars and other carbohydrates. 112 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: This is essentially the first miracle of milk. And then 113 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: you have a female ruminant in this case cow, sheet, camel, water, buffalo, goats, 114 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: et cetera. They consume that grass and truly, as Elaine 115 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: Cosa Rova explores in her tremendous book, Butter a rich 116 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: history Um, you're better off thinking of it as a 117 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: processed harvesting rather than a meal, because ruminants are built 118 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: to transform grass into milk. Uh. Consider that they have 119 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: these three or four chambered stomachs. Uh. They're upper dental 120 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: pad instead of teeth from massive for massicating green. And 121 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: each animal puts its own particular chemical spin on the 122 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: process as well. But they crunch up the greens and 123 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: they ferment them in their mini chambered guts eight hours feeding, 124 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: eight hours ruminating, and then the remains of the day resting, 125 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 1: so that that masceration, the repeated chewing of the cud 126 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: helps to carry out the second miracle of milk, the 127 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: transformation of a low fat diet of grass into high 128 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: fat milk. Yeah. You always wonder about that, right, Like 129 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: you look at the beginning product in the end product, 130 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't understand exactly what's happening here. Yeah, 131 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: And and part of this is just the miracle digestion. 132 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: The broken down food is assaulted by microbes and the 133 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: oxygen free fermentation chamber of the gut, the grassy meal 134 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: is broken down to the basic elements, strings of carbon 135 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: and hydrogen molecules, and then other backed here recombine the 136 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: elements into volat how fatty acids. Only half the fat 137 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: comes from the cow's diet. The rest comes from the 138 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: cow's own body fat. Oh wow. Yeah, And so it's 139 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: sort of it's not just making a product out of 140 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: what it just eight, but it's giving of itself when 141 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: it creates milk. And I think that's one of the reasons, 142 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: like we put the human layer on milk to write 143 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: like milk is this this giving of something something to 144 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: uh to to bring nourishment to another. And of course 145 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: we have so many metaphors related to that, including of 146 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: course that the milk of human kindness. But in this 147 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: example talking just about ruminate milk. Um, it's a you know, 148 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: fatty liquid to ensure the survival of the animals young 149 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: and um. The exact composition again is going to vary 150 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: from species to feat species, with additional factors depending on 151 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: environment and diet. For instance, uh a new produces twice 152 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: the fat content of cow milk, Goat milk has smaller, 153 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: more digestible fat molecules, yak milk has less sugar and 154 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: more protein, and camel's milk has three times as much 155 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: vitamin C water. Buffalo milk has twice the fat of 156 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: cow milk. And then we have things that are not 157 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: even um, you know, we don't traditionally think of as 158 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: milk producers. But consider the whales. Oh yeah, blue whales 159 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: for instance. Uh this, this always blows my mind. Uh. 160 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: A newborn blue whale gainst. Two hundred pounds a day 161 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: just by nursing, and the average whale produces forty times 162 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: more milk than a cow. And this has even led 163 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: some scientists to consider the possibility of milking whales and 164 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: specially prepared milking bays and then using that milk for 165 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: human consumption. Is there really any milk of any animal 166 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: that has not been considered for human consumption? UM? I 167 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean there's some that are certainly more attractive. Um. 168 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: But anytime you start reading around about different milks, I 169 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: feel like there's a good chance somebody's tasted it and 170 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: they will tell you what the flavor profile is. What 171 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: does rat milk taste like? What what does monkey milk 172 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: pair with? I don't know. I have sometimes think about 173 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: cat milk, like, what like tiger milk would taste like? 174 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: Would it be did you know or who did have 175 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: kind of a like a meati consistency to it, probably 176 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: like a nice French washed rind cat milk cheese. I also, 177 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: this is a topic that I discussed in that past 178 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: episode with the the jew. It was of course the the 179 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: the idea that you do have certain situations that can 180 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: cause males to lactaatee as well. Uh, some do to 181 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: some are more like behavioral environmental, and others have to 182 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: do with their regularities in the body. But you also 183 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: have certain male fruit bats that lactated, and these are 184 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: the only examples of male mammals lactating as a part 185 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: of a regular parental activity. Yeah, and you can see 186 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: already in the idea of male animal lactation that there 187 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: is going to be They're gonna be some like asterisks 188 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: next to the official like dictionary definition of milk, which 189 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 1: is something like an opaque white fluid that's rich and 190 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: fat and protein that's secreted by female mammals for the 191 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: nourishment of their young. So obviously there's not that's not 192 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: quite all cases, because in some cases males secrete it 193 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: like the bats you're just talking about. And then I 194 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: guess the question comes in where if you have something 195 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: that meets all those qualifications but is not produced by 196 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: a mammal. Is that technically milk or not? I think 197 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: a lot of biologists might say no, but they might 198 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: still use the term in describing whatever this other substance is. 199 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: What is the substance on the Simpsons that they're drinking 200 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: in the school cafeteria. I think it's rat milk now 201 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: with vitamin R. Oh, my bones they feel so brittle. 202 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: But I always drink plenty of malk. Well, maybe it's mack, 203 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: maybe it's milk. Well, whatever you call it, milk, malk, 204 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:50,479 Speaker 1: milk analog. There are clearly strong reasons that non mammalian 205 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: animals would would have an incentive to secrete milk like 206 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: fluids that they used to feed their young. It's a 207 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: really useful strategy and it serves quite a few dif functions. 208 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: I mean, for one thing, it allows the parent to 209 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: produce food for their offspring without having to like leave 210 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: or hunt or forage. You don't have to go out 211 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: of the nest. Another thing is that it tightly controls 212 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: the nutritional content of the offsprings food, making sure they 213 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: get exactly what they need. And you can see that 214 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: in the very different nutritional profiles of milk, like you 215 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: were talking about earlier, like with wallabies and stuff. It's 216 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: also a way for the young to eat all the 217 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: mother without actually eating the mother. Yes, exactly, Uh yeah, 218 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: and so it can. It can include extra nutrition, lots 219 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: of fat and protein, maybe more fat and protein than 220 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: you could expect to get from food sources in the environment. 221 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: It's like super concentrating the nutrition profile for the young, 222 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: which will help them speed up and grow faster. And 223 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: then it can also deliver really important additives. Earlier you 224 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: mentioned immune function, and that does seem to be a 225 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: very important role of of milk and animals. The idea 226 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: of stimulating the immune system with antibodies or supplementing the 227 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: offsprings microbiome with microbiodelic commenceled bacteria from the mother. Yeah, 228 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: I feel like this should come as no surprise following 229 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: our poop eating eating animals episode, because obviously, if if 230 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: eating a little um parental poop is going to provide 231 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: that kind of a boost, obviously that kind of boost 232 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: might be available via milk. And then on top of 233 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: all that, like the additives for the immune system, you 234 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: also can add hormones. This can be especially useful when 235 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: it's like hormones that could have something to do with 236 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: cementing the psychological bond between parent and child, or things 237 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: like growth hormone to help speed up the growth of 238 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: the young. So with some of that in mind, it 239 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: might be less surprising what I'm about to say, which 240 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: is that a number of bird species secrete a substance 241 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: analogous to milk. I think we should look at a few, Robert, 242 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: will you look at milk birds with me? Let's do it. 243 00:13:54,080 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: How about pigeons. Pigeons both male and female, regurgitate a 244 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: highly nutritious substance known as crop milk into the mouths 245 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: of their young, and don't let the fact that it 246 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: is delivered in the form of nourishing barf throw you off. 247 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: This is not regurgitated food. This is not the parent 248 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: bird providing a partially digested version of what they just date. 249 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: Crop milk is a separate, original substance secreted in the 250 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: crop organ. It's from the parent's body itself. Now the 251 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: crop organ is I don't know if you've ever seen 252 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: one of these, ROBBERTI, it's sort of have not. It's 253 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: like a pouch area in the esophagus that can be 254 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: used to store and moisten food before it continues on 255 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: down the elementary tract for digestion. And I think it's 256 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: thought that um the crop organ is useful for like 257 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: prey species of birds that might be trying to gobble 258 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: up a bunch of food really fast while they're out 259 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: somewhere exposed and then be able to fly off quickly 260 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: and reduce the amount of time they're out there eating 261 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: and exposed to predators. So you want to be able 262 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: to just like stuff it all in, like get it 263 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: all down there really fast, and then get out of there, 264 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: and then you can settle down somewhere safe and try 265 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: to digest. It's a it's a it's a doggy bag 266 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: essentially inside the body, Yes, exactly, it's it's your it's 267 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: your styrofoam clam shell inside the bird's throat, and so 268 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: the crop milk, it's actually produced by pigeons and doves. 269 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: This is described in a paper I'll come back to 270 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: in a minute as quote an oily, yellowish cheese like 271 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: substance that is formed into small seed sized rice shaped pellets. 272 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: I've also seen it described as cottage cheese but yellow. Well, 273 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: this sounds fine. I have no objection to any of that. Okay. 274 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: So apparently crop milk is produced by the inner cells 275 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: of the crop pouch becoming moist and then sort of 276 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: sloughing off into the pouch and then getting regurgitated. So 277 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: it's like, here's some let me barf you up some 278 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: of my highly nutritious inside skin. This is my flesh, 279 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: et cetera. Right now. An interesting thing in birds and 280 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: pigeons is that this process in parent pigeons is apparently 281 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: controlled by the hormone prolactin, which is also what stimulates 282 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: milk production in mammals. That's kind of interesting because you know, 283 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: they don't have memory glands. It's not you would think 284 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: that it would be something completely different, but it's pro 285 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: lactin in both cases that gets the parent doing this. 286 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: Crop milk tends to be mostly protein and fat, about 287 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: six protein maybe thirty something percent fat, and then just 288 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: a little bit of carbohydrates and minerals and other things 289 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: in there. A two thousand twelve study in Plos One 290 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: by Megan Gillespie at All found that if you took 291 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: baby chickens and fed them crop milk from pigeons. They 292 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: sort of became like little minor hulk chickens. After just 293 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: seven days, the pigeon milk chickens were more than twelve 294 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: percent heavier than control chickens. And also they showed greater 295 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: diversity of gut bacterious specifically in the seaka um, and 296 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: they had higher expression of the immunoglobulin I g A, 297 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: which is an antibody class that's crucial for all kinds 298 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: of immune system function. Now, a side question you might 299 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: be wondering is why did they test this on chickens 300 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: rather than on pigeons. I think the answer is that 301 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: with pigeons you couldn't really have a control group because 302 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: young pigeons would just die without the crop milk. And 303 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: there I've read that there have been other studies that 304 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: looked into this. They're like fed pigeon crop milk two 305 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: chickens to see what happened, and the chickens always really 306 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: beefed up. It. It's like it's clearly something that their 307 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: bodies respond well to. But there are some other birds 308 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: that also produce UH and feed their young with secretions 309 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: from the upper digestive tract that are crop milk or 310 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: something like it. Flamingos would be an example. According I 311 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: was reading about the flamingo crop milk feeding on the 312 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: San Diego Zoo website. They were talking about their flamingos. 313 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they have a great website, great outreach. Yeah, exactly, 314 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 1: And so the a few things they mentioned. One is 315 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: that apparently when young chicks flamingo chicks are hungry and 316 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 1: they're calling out for feeding, it's not just their own parents. 317 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: Other adults in the flock can be stimulated to act 318 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: as sort of foster feeders, which is sweet, that's cool. 319 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,959 Speaker 1: And the way that seems to work is that they 320 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: they suppose that hearing the sound of the hungry chicks 321 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: calling for food stimulates the production of the milk like analog. 322 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: And then also one of the things they say is 323 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: that as the parent flamingos produce crop milk to feed 324 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: their chicks, their feathers tend to be drained of color 325 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: over time. So like if you've got an adult that's 326 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: producing crop milk feeding a young one, it turns from 327 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: pink to a pale pink or even to a white. 328 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: And then after the they stopped producing it, they gradually 329 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: get their color back. One more, of course, is emperor penguins. 330 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: You may have heard about this, like, you know, the 331 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: male emperor penguins guarding the the egg while the female 332 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 1: goes off to feed. So that goes on. But what 333 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: happens if the the young penguin hatches from the egg 334 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: before the female returns from feeding with fish to regurgitate 335 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: for it. Apparently the male penguin will do something like this, 336 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: will generate some upper digestive tract milk to bar out 337 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: for the little penguin, and the little penguin gets its 338 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: nourishment that way. So again, it's it's certainly not milk, 339 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: but it does seem to be meeting some of the 340 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: criteria we've discussed. Well, it's a lot like milk nutritionally, 341 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: it seems to serve a lot of the same functions 342 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: and be composed in a pretty similar way. So I 343 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know whether you should call it 344 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: milk or not. I mean, again, I think if we 345 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: go by the technical definition, milk is only produced by mammals, 346 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: So it's not milk, but it looks like milk, It 347 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: apparently tastes like milk, it does what milk does. Yeah, 348 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: we could call it bird milk or or bird nog 349 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: a holiday twist. That's good. Well, how about let let 350 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: me take you to the next step. This one might 351 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: seem unbelievable, but maybe just a tiny bit less. So, 352 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: given that birds produce milk like secretions, what about dinohnog? 353 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: So what are birds? They are the dinosaurs that survived 354 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: the fifth extinction right there, the descendants of these feathered 355 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: dinosaurs that survived when the thing that killed all the 356 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: other dinosaurs. Now, given that modern birds exhibit a form 357 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: of what might be considered lactation, is it possible that 358 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: some dinosaurs also fed their young with milk like secretions. 359 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: We don't know the answer to this, but exactly this 360 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: question is explored by the Australian molecular biologist Paul Else 361 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: in a Journal of Experimental Biology paper called Dinosaur Lactation. 362 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: It's like Chariots of the Gods. You know, if you 363 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: end it with a question mark, you're always safe. It's 364 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: not in all caps, though, I will say that that 365 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: is a good point, but no, that this is a 366 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: fun question. So he says, you know, if dinosaurs did 367 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: perform something analogous to lactation, we don't know, but if 368 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: they did, it's another one of the many soft tissue 369 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: based biological features that are just going to be extremely 370 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: difficult to infer from postilized remains. The bones don't usually 371 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: tell us things like that, So the only way to 372 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: try to answer this kind of question is to look 373 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: at the indirect evidence. And so he's got a few 374 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: thoughts here. One of them is about the initial size 375 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: difference between adults and hatchlings of some dinosaur species, especially 376 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: the sauropods. Yeah, yeah, so he says, like, you know, 377 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: it almost seems as if it would present mechanical problems 378 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: and feeding. He said to I believe this was to 379 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: a campus newspaper. He was speaking about his paper to quote, 380 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: although I work at the molecular level, I'm basically a 381 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: comparative physiologist, and one thing that always struck me as 382 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: unresolved about dinosaurs was how a dinosaur parent of several 383 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: tons could feed young of only a few kilograms. It 384 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: seemed obvious a form of lactation similar to that present 385 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: in birds. And then in his paper he writes, quote 386 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: lactation might free large parents from having to feed their 387 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: newly hatched young the regurgitated products of their own meals 388 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: that might be unsued did for altricial young based on 389 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: digestive systems unfamiliar with coarse fodder like you know, rough 390 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: plant matter that adults would be eating, and essential nutrient 391 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: requirements to promote rapid growth, and replace this with secret 392 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: secretory products. Oh, that's a hard word. Secretary uh synthesized 393 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: by the four gut that are more suited to supporting 394 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: rapid development. So again there's obviously some kind of incentive 395 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: there would be if they could produce something like this. 396 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: We don't know if they could, and so if we 397 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: entertain that possibility for a second, the dinosaurs produced milk 398 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: for their young, it's likely they did it in the 399 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: same way as birds rather than like mammals do. So 400 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: that would probably mean nutrient rich secretions from the upper 401 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: digestive tract that would be barfed up into little the 402 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: little dinosaurs mouths, and paleontologists have discovered evidence that many 403 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: dinosaur hatchlings grew very quickly. We do seem to have 404 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: evidence for that closer to the growth rate of birds 405 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: and mammals than of reptiles, and a nutrient rich parental 406 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: secret shin especially if it contained these helpful bioadditives like 407 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: antibodies and growth hormone, as it does in the case 408 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: of some birds, could help explain this rapid growth, But unfortunately, 409 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: there's currently no direct evidence for dinosaur milk. Maybe in 410 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: the future some paleontologists will come up with a with 411 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: a clever way of proving that dinosaurs made crop milk. 412 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: That would be awesome. Yeah, maybe, I mean that's if 413 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: we ever get Jurassic Park. That's one of the things 414 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: that we can also achieve a chance to sample all 415 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: the various dinosaur milks. I wonder which which one would 416 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 1: you prefer if you had to have some dinosaur nog 417 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: which species? Oh, I'd probably want to go with a 418 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: herbivore milk. I don't know if i'd want to try 419 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: out a carnivorous dinosaur milk. I think I could probably 420 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: go for what pisar Lofus. I feel like that it 421 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: looks like a good milk dina. How about packy cephalosaurus. 422 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the big cranial head butters right, yeah, I 423 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: think yeah, those are those are those are good good 424 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: choices that themselves to certain branding, you know, like one 425 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: is kind of like the brain milk, uh you know, 426 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: you really want to, you know, smack craniums with with 427 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: your your your coworker as well, and then you need 428 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: a you need a bone up on this stuff about 429 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: try saranogue. Try saranogue is good. Yeah, we'll come back 430 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: to it. This is what I'm going to keep my 431 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: eye on for years. I'm always going to have it 432 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: in the back of my mind, waiting for that paper 433 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: that says dinosaurs did have crop organs, they produced milk. 434 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: All right, should we take a quick break, Let's do it, 435 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank alright, we're back. We're talking about strange milk, 436 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: milk like substances produced by non mamalion creatures. Now, remember 437 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: in the episode we did about amphibians with special guest 438 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: Markman Decau, he was discussing these amazing creatures called Sicilians, 439 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: not the people from Sicily, but it is spelled c 440 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: A E C I L I A N. Sicilians are 441 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: amphibians like frogs and salam anders, but unlike frogs and salamanders, 442 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: sicilians are completely without legs. Most Sicilians live underground, so 443 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: we rarely see them, and if you do see one, 444 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: you might mistake it for a huge worm. They kind 445 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: of look like moist, greasy snakes, So they're sounding more 446 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: and more like just like an awesome candidate for milk 447 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: like substance production. Right, So can you milk a Sicilian? Uh? 448 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: Not exactly, but they do provide their young with nourishing 449 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: secretions that are sort of milk analogs. There was a 450 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 1: paper by Alexander cup For a bunch of other authors 451 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: Alexander cup for at All, published in Nature in two 452 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: thousand six called parental investment by skin feeding in a 453 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: Sicilian Amphibian. The short version of this is that after 454 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: the mother of a Sicilian species called boulanger Ulia titanus, 455 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: after she gives birth, she transforms the outer layer of 456 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: her skin into a nutrient rich meal for her young 457 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: offsp ring. And then the young developed quote a specialized 458 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: dentition which they used to peel and eat the outer 459 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: layer of their mother's modified skin. So basically, mom turns 460 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: her skin into cheese, and these juvenile worm like creatures 461 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: develop special baby teeth that are designed specifically for eating 462 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: mom's milk skin. What I love about this example is 463 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: that not only is it kind of delightfully grotesque and 464 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: again weirder than anything we could dream up for our 465 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: horror movies. Uh. It also, even though it's not milk, 466 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: it is a milk like behavior. It forces you to 467 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: re evaluate what milk is as a mammalion feature. Yeah, well, 468 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: are are you saying that even among mammals we should 469 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: think about it more like this parent is just ripping 470 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: off part of their body to give to their young. Yeah. 471 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: I think so. But you know, I I have it. 472 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: I have heard mothers, nursing mothers like speak of it 473 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 1: in this in this way, you know where they are, 474 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: and I would love to hear from from from anyone 475 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: out there has had this experience where they're where they're like, 476 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: this is so bizarre, Like I'm all, I'm basically turning 477 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: my body into this substance and feeding this little larval 478 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: human creature. You know, it's I have frequently heard mothers 479 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: speak about the weirdness of the whole scenario, but I 480 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: feel like it is a weird There's something about milk 481 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: that for the rest of the time and for many 482 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: of us, we just take it for granted. Yeah, it's amazing. 483 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: We we forget to appreciate the weirdness of reality in 484 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: so many ways. But this is another one of them. 485 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,239 Speaker 1: It's crazy, it's amazing, it's around us every day. It's 486 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: a whole aisle at the grocery store, and it's a 487 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: crucial part of human life. Uh and yeah, when you 488 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: just stop and appreciate the biological realities of it, it 489 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: is startling. Oh. But one thing I wanted to address 490 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: about the Sicilians here, so I want to already quote 491 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: from the abstract uh So quote. This new form of 492 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: parental care provides a plausible intermediate stage and the evolution 493 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: of viviparity, which is live birth in Sicilians at independence 494 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: offspring of viviparous and oviparous which means egg laying dermato trophic, 495 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: which means skin eating. Sicilians are relatively large despite being 496 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: provided with relatively little yolk. The specialized dentition of skin 497 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: feeding or dermato vegas uh. Sicilians may constitute a pre 498 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: adaptation to the fetal feeding on the oviduct lining of 499 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: viviparous sicilians. So there's a lot of Latin words, but 500 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: in other words, the eggs have the advantage of containing 501 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: a yolk that the young can feed on. And of 502 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: course this is why egg yolks are delicious, it's everything 503 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: a growing body needs. And live birth instead has the 504 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: young development feed inside the mother until they're viable to 505 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: move around and survive on their own. Species who is 506 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: young have this intermediate stage where eating their mother's butter 507 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: skin as a yolk substitute or a supplement could be 508 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: a could be an evolutionary stepping stone between these two 509 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: lines of birth. Yeah. So that then also this connection 510 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: between what yolk essentially is and what milk essentially is. 511 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: It's like the the offspring is spat out. It's like whoa, mom, 512 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: there wasn't enough yolk there. Uh, oh, don't worry. I 513 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: have something that is like yolk that I will now 514 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: produce for you to consume. It is very much like yolk, 515 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: and again both both are involved in egg knock. So connection. 516 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: Think about the nutritional parallels between egg yolks and milk. 517 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: They tend to be high and protein high and fat 518 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: good for growing young bodies. Guess, both useful and making 519 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: like a a frothy mixed drink like like a ramos 520 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: gin fizz or something. Wait does that egg yolk or 521 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: egg white? Uh? That is usually just the egg um 522 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: egg whitey, though you know, there are other drinks that 523 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: call for the egg yolk as well. I haven't experimented 524 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: with as many of those. And of course there are 525 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: put plenty of drinks that also call for for milk. 526 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: I mean egg knock is a great example of that, 527 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: because that is tipped that is often paired with some 528 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: sort of a liquor. What's that drink called where you 529 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: just have a beer and you crack an egg in it? Oh, 530 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, is that like they drink it on 531 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: the wire? I think I don't remember the name of 532 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: that one, like the Dockworkers Breakfast, the Champions or something. 533 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: Never tried it? All right, Robert, have you have you 534 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: got some strange milk for us? Yeah? So you know, 535 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about birds, it only, you know, makes sense 536 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: that we would also turn to the world of fish. Okay, 537 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: So in particular, we're talking about the discus fish, which 538 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: is an Amazonian chick lit species. It's a rather unique 539 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: fish because both mother and father provide sustenance for their 540 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: hatchlings via mucous secretions. And of course this isn't simply 541 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: a matter of hatchlings like nipping some mucus from their 542 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: parents and then swimming off. This can go on for 543 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: a month or so. Oh wow, so it's prolonged. Yeah, yea. 544 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: So it's worth remembering that with the with a fish 545 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: slime and mucus or or mucus that they're very important. 546 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: It's not merely the stuff that's on their scales, but 547 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: it constitutes a protective outer layer of their bodies and 548 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: it provides a number of key benefits. UM. One of 549 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: the big ones that's going to be important here is 550 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: UH osmo regulation or gas transport, and this is to 551 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: maintain the internal external osmotic balance UM also sometimes referred 552 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: to you know, dermal respiration UH. In addition to this, 553 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: the mucus or slime provides external protection. It can reduce turbulence, 554 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: and there are other varieties of fish that also use 555 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: it as a toxin rich outer coating, so it can 556 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: be protective. Even if it doesn't have toxins in it, 557 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: it can provide some level of protection. You have other 558 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: particularly slimy fish like the hag fish that use it 559 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: to their advantage. UH. It can also mucus also conserve 560 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: for water cleansing purposes. It can also form It can 561 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: also serve a purpose in the cocoon formation in the 562 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: case of the African lungfish, and some fish also eat 563 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: their own mucus. So a two thousand ten study looked 564 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: into this. It was titled Biparental mucus feeding a Unique 565 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: Example of Parent Care in an Amazonian chicklet by Buckley 566 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: at All, published in the Journal of Experimental Biology. So 567 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: basically they broke down not only the nutrient and immunity 568 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: load of the mucus, but also how it all changed 569 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: depending on the developmental level of the offspring, very much 570 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: in line with the milk production of mammals as we 571 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: discussed earlier. You know, again, remember how milk changes to 572 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: meet the growing offsprings needs. The authors pointed out that 573 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: like the peak level of mucus, antibody up provision was 574 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: seen as offspring reached the free swimming stage, and this suggested, 575 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, a role that's very much like what is 576 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: provided by mammals. Again, so that you know that there's 577 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: a winging off here. Um. You know. They pointed out 578 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: that the protein was lowest during the second and third 579 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: weeks of free swimming during a weaning period, and the 580 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: authors point out that all of this is far more 581 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: in line with mammalion and avi and parental care than 582 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: anything we see in in other fish. So it's a 583 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: it's a rather curious example of you know, it's not milk, 584 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a little more like the Sicilian example. 585 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: And then we're dealing with an out a layer of 586 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: the creature's skin. Um, but but still it's it's providing 587 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: sustenance for the young, and doing so again not in 588 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,959 Speaker 1: just an off head man or like the hatchlings are 589 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: out and then they just you know, grab a bite 590 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: and run off. It seems like we're steadily progressing further 591 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: and further from mammals, Like we went to birds and dinosaurs, 592 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: and we went to amphibians, and then we went to fish, 593 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: which are still vertebrates. How much further could we get? Yeah, 594 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: because it's one of those things where if you just 595 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: came up to somebody in the street and just surprised 596 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: him and said, hey, have you ever tried bird milk? 597 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: They might be like, oh, I don't know. It might 598 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: take them just a few seconds to be like, hey, 599 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: wait a second. Only mammals produced milk. But when you 600 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: start talking about fish milk, and and you know, little 601 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: or insect milk. I think most people aren't gonna buy 602 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: it for a second. They're they're gonna say, you're a 603 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: crazy person. Stop talking about things that don't exist. Let 604 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: me talk about things that do exist. Robert, go on 605 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: a mental journey with me. Imagine you are sitting on 606 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: a park bench in a park somewhere in southern China, 607 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: and you feel a tickle on your forearm. You look down. 608 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: There's an ant crawling on you. It has a shiny, 609 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: segmented black body with antennae wiggling in the breeze. But 610 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: then you look closer, those aren't antenna They're not coming 611 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: out of the top of its head. They're coming out 612 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: of the thorax under the head, or the cephalothorax their legs, 613 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 1: which means this animal has not six, but eight legs. 614 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: This is not an ant. It is a spider. It's 615 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: a spider in disguise. This is the spider Toxas Magnus. 616 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: I've included a picture for you to look at here, Robert, 617 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: and I like the way, even in this close up, 618 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: the shiny black body is like catching a fluorescent light 619 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: on the ceiling that you can see very clearly. Yeah, 620 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: and it looks very much like an ant. At first glance, 621 00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 1: you would just assume this is an aunt. You really 622 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: have to stare at it for a second to to 623 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: make out all the legs. Yeah. So it's about a 624 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: centimeter long, Toxais magnus and it's a member of the 625 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: family selticitay the jumping spiders. Magnus is also known as 626 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: the black ant mimicking jumper which needs to catch your 627 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: name and uh. It's found mostly in Southeast Asia. Now, 628 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: there are hundreds of species of spider that are professional 629 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: ant mimics like this. They're known as the Mermaica morphs 630 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: and not. They not only look like ants, but they 631 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,879 Speaker 1: often mimic the behaviors and movement patterns of ants, even 632 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: lifting and waving their front legs around to make them 633 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: look like antennae, or walking on people, or walking in 634 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: patterns that copy the locomotion of foraging ants. And you 635 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: can imagine several recent spiders might want to look like ants. 636 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,439 Speaker 1: Uh that the main pressure actually driving this evolutionary path 637 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: seems to be the avoidance of certain egg sac parasites 638 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: like spider wasps and predators like antises and other larger 639 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,280 Speaker 1: jumping spiders which kill spiders but usually leave ants alone. 640 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: That makes sense, right, I mean, because of course, obviously 641 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 1: you know all these species that have evolved to prey 642 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: upon spiders, but associating yourself with the ants, it's kind of, ah, 643 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: that's a safer bet because the ants have strengthened numbers 644 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: and they're not the solitary prey that a spider would be, right, 645 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: or they might just not be nutritious to eat or something. 646 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: I mean, there might be all kinds of reasons that 647 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,479 Speaker 1: a predator doesn't really want to go mess with an aunt. 648 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: So just a few weeks ago, a group of researchers, 649 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,280 Speaker 1: mostly based in China, led by a researcher named John 650 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: chi Chen, published a study in the journal Science revealing 651 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: something amazing about these ant mimic spiders. It started with 652 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,399 Speaker 1: the observation that after the young Magnus spiders hatch from 653 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: their eggs, they sort of became, uh like what you 654 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: might call indoor children. Instead of leaving the nest, they 655 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: hung around for a long time time, roughly twenty days. 656 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: And then it gets weirder because not only did they 657 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: not leave the nest to forage, the mother spider didn't 658 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: leave the nest to forage either, so it couldn't have 659 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: been going out to get food to bring back to them. 660 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: Nobody left home or even went out to the grocery 661 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: store for almost three weeks, and if you know something 662 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: about spiders, you'll probably recognize that there's something odd going 663 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: on here. Like there are some social species of arachnid, 664 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: but this shouldn't be one of the Most spiders, including 665 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: generally salt aids. The jumping spiders are aggressive and even 666 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: even cannibalistic toward one another, so they don't nest together 667 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: like this except for those those small number of social species. 668 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: What's weirder During this period of family time, the young 669 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,879 Speaker 1: spiders grew a lot. If they were growing, they had 670 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: to be eating, so what were they eating If nobody 671 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: ever left the nest. You can probably guess where we're 672 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: going with this. The authors started watching more closely just 673 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: what was happening in the nest, and what they found 674 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: was strange and fascinating. During the first week after hatching, 675 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: the mother spider would secrete droplets of an unknown white 676 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: milk like fluid from a ridge on her underbelly called 677 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 1: the epigastric furrow. This is also where the spiders eggs 678 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 1: are produced. Interestingly and uh so, after she secreted this fluid, 679 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 1: she would leave droplets of it on the walls of 680 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: the nest for her offspring to eat, and after the 681 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: first week, the young spiders would just climb right up 682 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: on her and drink the secretions directly from the mother 683 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: Magnus's epigastric furrow. So this milk substance feeding took place 684 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: for the first forty days of the young spiders lives. 685 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: Even after the young spiders finally started leaving the nest 686 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: to hunt, they would come back. They would come back 687 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 1: to the nest and supplement their insect diet by getting 688 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: more spider milk from the mother. That's incredible. Yeah, So 689 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: the researchers also found that when the spiders were unable 690 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: to feed their young with this spider milk, all the 691 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: young spiders died thin less than two weeks. So it's 692 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: not just a little something extra, it's necessary for the 693 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 1: life cycle of the species. And the spider milk they 694 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: found is incredibly nutritious. They found that per mill leader 695 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: it contained two milligrams of sugar, five point two milligrams 696 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 1: of fat, and a hundred and twenty four milligrams of protein, 697 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: which is a lot that's expressed as four times the 698 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: protein content of cow's milk. And of course I envisioned 699 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 1: an awesome future whenever we finally chuck it in and 700 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: just start hawking bogus nutrition supplements to bodybuilders, We're going 701 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: to do the spider milk protein bomb stack. I love this. 702 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: I really want to incorporate this into Dungeons and Dragons 703 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: because you have various species, particularly in an under dark um, 704 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: the vast subterranean realm in the setting that depends on spiders. 705 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: The gray dwarf of the Dugard. They have these kind 706 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: of like a pack pony spiders that they use, so 707 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: it makes sense that they would be drinking some sort 708 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: of spider milk. And now there's a there's a scientific 709 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: reason to incorporate that into everyone's campaigns. Doesn't science always 710 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: end up proving the D and D monster manual correct. 711 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 1: One of the co authors on this paper, Richard T. Courtlet, says, quote, 712 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 1: our findings suggests that lactation may arise in non mammals 713 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 1: when it provides a significant advantage in offspring survival. Well, 714 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,359 Speaker 1: as we've been seeing from the other examples in this 715 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: episode that's clearly true. Uh. He also says that it's 716 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: useful in this species because of the small size of 717 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: the hatchlings. They're tiny and unable to hunt, or at 718 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: least initially unable to hunt or defend themselves from predators. 719 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: But ultimately the researchers don't know why this strange mammal 720 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,320 Speaker 1: like trade has evolved in this one species of spider. 721 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: As far as we know, at least so far, this 722 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 1: is the only spider that does this, and it's very weird. 723 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: And another thing that was pointed out that was pretty 724 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: weird is that the mother magnus didn't just offer her 725 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: milk to the young. She also displays like social parenting behaviors, 726 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: like maintaining a clean and safe nest environment for the 727 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: young to hang out in. Just kind of kind of 728 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: weird for spiders. All Right, on that note, we're going 729 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: to take another break, and when we come back, you know, 730 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: we'll we'll keep having some arachneid milk. Thank Alright, we're back, Robert. 731 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: Are you going to feed me with the milk of arachneids? Yes? Yes, 732 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: we have another another arachneid species here that's producing something 733 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: that's kind of like milk. So we're talking about the 734 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: pseudo scorpion. Nice. Now, the pseudo scorpion really sounds like 735 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 1: something that your hey, Luis Borees would have just made up. 736 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: It's a tiny arachneid that can frequently be found living 737 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: in old books, protecting them from decay by feasting on 738 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 1: book lice that munch on the starch based book binding glue. 739 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: That is that is good? Yeah, I mean it really 740 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 1: does sound like something that Borees would have made up, like, oh, well, 741 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: the the old books are home to these tiny creatures 742 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: and they eat other tiny creatures that they want to 743 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: destroy the books. I don't know it did, There's there's 744 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: something beautiful about it. Yeah, it's like something that would 745 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: have been imagined in the marginal illustrations in one of 746 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,959 Speaker 1: the scripts in the Name of the Rows. Yes, yes, 747 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: and and and they do literally live in the margins, 748 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: so it makes sense. But if you see them, they 749 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: look kind of like scorpions without tails, like they got claws. Yea. 750 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: They're sometimes called false scorpions because they are in fact 751 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: not scorpions despite having these big pinchers. They have some 752 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,399 Speaker 1: really impressive looking pinchers. And there are some thirty three 753 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: hundred species of false scorpion that live around the world, 754 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: but the most famous is callith can crow Eades, which 755 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: can reach four millimeters in length. So I was reading 756 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: about this. The author bet Crew has a wonderful post 757 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: about them on the Scientific American blog titled how book 758 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:49,320 Speaker 1: scorpions Tend to Your Dusty Tones, and she discusses, among 759 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,919 Speaker 1: other things, they're they're dancing and rubbing mating rituals, which 760 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: sound quite cute, but then it gets really kind of 761 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 1: weird and brutal. Quote he dumps a sack full of 762 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,399 Speaker 1: sperm on the round, and it gets worse because then 763 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: he pushes the female down into his sack full of 764 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,720 Speaker 1: sperm on the ground. This whole process can take anywhere 765 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 1: from ten minutes to a whole hour. The sack full 766 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: of sperm will be taken in by the female's genital 767 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: orifice and she'll end up producing twenty to forty eggs, 768 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,360 Speaker 1: which she'll carry around in her abdomen even after they've hatched. 769 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,759 Speaker 1: Well that's weird sex, yes, yeah, so everything gets a 770 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: little less borhe than a little more. I don't know, geeker, 771 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: I guess, but but here's where we get to the 772 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: sweet book scorpion milk. So the larvae will hang around 773 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: and the young, the young book scorpions will even hang 774 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: out around on her back until they're old enough to 775 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 1: go off on their own. But as larvae, they remain 776 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,319 Speaker 1: inside for a while, living in her genital orifice and 777 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 1: feeding on a milk like substance that secretes from her ovaries. 778 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: So they feast on this stuff, and eventually she's just 779 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 1: so emaciated from the consumption, uh, that the tiny book 780 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: scorpions just have to leave, like they can no longer 781 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: hang out in the orifice because there's just not enough 782 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: book scorpion milk to go around anymore. Ungrateful, Well, you know, 783 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: she does, She does a lot, She does what she can, 784 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,360 Speaker 1: and then they have to move on and eat some 785 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 1: book lice. Somebody out of whip some independence into those. 786 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: Maybe book scorpions getta eating book lice earlier. Now I 787 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: have another couple of creatures to mention here. These are insects, 788 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: but they also illustrate what's going on. So bat flies. 789 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: I was not familiar with bat flies, but they are 790 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: fascinating little creatures. They are as the name implies, parasites 791 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: that feed on bats. They do, not, however, look much 792 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 1: like a traditional fly whatever you're imagining when I say 793 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,919 Speaker 1: bat fly, it ain't that. Are we going to try 794 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: to say? The family name of the bat flies? Is 795 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: it nick ter Ribida? Yes? I think that would be 796 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 1: my guess, nick to Ribidae. Uh. They are wingless, spider 797 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,319 Speaker 1: like insects with long legs and a small head that 798 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,800 Speaker 1: folds back into a groove in the thorax when it rests. 799 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,919 Speaker 1: So earlier we had a spider that kind of looks 800 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,279 Speaker 1: like an insect. Here we have an insect that kind 801 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 1: of looks like a spider. They also have a highly 802 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: developed uterus and milk glands there, or at least they 803 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,879 Speaker 1: were referred to as milk glands milk in quotation marks here. 804 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: And these glands seem to play a key role in 805 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:21,319 Speaker 1: imparting important bacterial indo symbians to the offspring and other 806 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: insects engage in this kind of behavior as well, as 807 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,280 Speaker 1: they host bacteria in their cells that provide important boosts 808 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 1: that food alone cannot give them. These indo symbians are essential. 809 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: For example, the tetse fly hosts a bacterium that provides 810 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,879 Speaker 1: b items that are not available in uh in the 811 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: flies normal diet of blood. Isn't it amazing? How Like 812 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: we think that animals rule the world, but like almost 813 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: all animals are just so dependent on invisible microbes in 814 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 1: order to even just get the basic nutrition they need 815 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,280 Speaker 1: out of their food. Yeah, it's it's crazy, it's crazy. 816 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: But yeah, again, this is a great example all of 817 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: just like, it's almost like a simple model of milk. Hey, baby, 818 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,760 Speaker 1: you're just gonna only eat blood, but there are things 819 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,359 Speaker 1: you need. I will have to provide them through some 820 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,880 Speaker 1: handy secretions. Well, there's another insects secretion. I want to 821 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: talk about. What kind of yummy milk do you have 822 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 1: for us? Now? It's cockroach milk. So you're not a 823 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,320 Speaker 1: fan of cockroaches, are you? How do you know anyone 824 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: who is? Oh, I'm sure there are lots of people 825 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 1: who love cockroach. I mean, he'sing cockroaches are kind of 826 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: I think cockroaches are only interesting if they are exotic 827 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: or their pets. Nobody wants just free range cockroaches or 828 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: palmetta bugs. Is you know we regionally call the larger 829 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,759 Speaker 1: ones that invade our homes. Nobody wants those around though, 830 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: like that. We have just an inescapable around here, inescapable, 831 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: and I feel like we have instant kill instinct with them. 832 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: No matter how much you have to you have to 833 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: be pretty hardycore animal lover to say, oh, the Palmetta 834 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 1: bug is here, let me attend to its needs. And 835 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: smashing one of those Georgia cockroaches is basic, really like 836 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,520 Speaker 1: smashing like a three foot wide jellyfish, Like it leaves 837 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: this explosion of of mucus and liquid everywhere. They are 838 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 1: so big and so juicy. Yeah, and they'll they like 839 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:17,240 Speaker 1: to hang out I've noticed sometimes tauntingly on white walls. 840 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,239 Speaker 1: We're like, oh, I can't squish you there, because there 841 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,719 Speaker 1: will be a The mark will haunt me forever. You 842 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: ever walk into the bathroom in the middle of the night, 843 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,279 Speaker 1: turn the light on and there's a cockroach on your toothbrush. 844 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: No I haven't, I haven't. It's happened to me. I 845 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: have not encountered that, But now I have that that 846 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,160 Speaker 1: image of man, and now I will fear it. I 847 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: do frequently, never know, I do frequently notice how you'll 848 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,799 Speaker 1: I'll go into a room. It might be the you know, 849 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,319 Speaker 1: the kitchen or wherever, and you turn on the light 850 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 1: and it's not. You don't always necessarily see the roach 851 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 1: all at once, but suddenly something clicks in your mind, 852 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,239 Speaker 1: like there's something something is off, like you know, and 853 00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 1: then you have to look for it, and then you 854 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: find it, you know. But we we say we have 855 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,799 Speaker 1: like a high level of awareness for them. So there 856 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: is a species of cockroach found in Asia and in 857 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,239 Speaker 1: the Pacific Islands. I think it's found a lot in Hawaii, 858 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:16,280 Speaker 1: known as the Pacific beetle cockroach or diploped Tera punk tata. 859 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,440 Speaker 1: And there are several interesting things about the species of cockroach. 860 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,839 Speaker 1: First of all, they are the only known truly viviparous cockroach, 861 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 1: the only cockroach we know of that has real live 862 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,280 Speaker 1: birth instead of laying eggs. Second, this kind of interesting. 863 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,120 Speaker 1: They do chemical warfare. They produce an organic compound that's 864 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: known as quine owns from specialized tracheal glands, and this 865 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: is probably a chemical weapon they use against predators. There 866 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: are analogies for this, like quine owns are used as 867 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 1: part of the chemical defense of the Bombardier beetle. And 868 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,720 Speaker 1: then finally, researchers have discovered that this cockroach who gives 869 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: live birth to its young also secretes a type of 870 00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,479 Speaker 1: protein rich, light yellow milk like liquid from her brew sack, 871 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,200 Speaker 1: and then the young ones drink it. Okay, tell me 872 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,319 Speaker 1: more about this roach not well. One of the one 873 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,719 Speaker 1: of the researchers who first discovered this was the University 874 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,720 Speaker 1: of Iowa emeritus biologist and insects surgeon, Dr. Barbara Stay, 875 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: insects surgeon. How do you become an insect surgeon? That 876 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,440 Speaker 1: sounds like an awesome job, very delicate hands. Yes, you've 877 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,879 Speaker 1: gotta be like so many steps above, like the human neurosurgeon, 878 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,760 Speaker 1: to be an insect surgeon. So the cockroach milk begins 879 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: as a liquid at first, and it contains these milk 880 00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 1: crystals that are full of nutritious proteins and stuff. And 881 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 1: then as the young grow, the the milk begins to 882 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,120 Speaker 1: sort of like solidify into bigger solid crystals. And Dr 883 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,160 Speaker 1: Stay apparently developed a process for quote milking these cockroaches. 884 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 1: Speaking to NPR, she described the process. I guess pretty simply, 885 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,520 Speaker 1: she said, quote you substitute a filter paper in the 886 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,439 Speaker 1: brood sack for the embryos, and you leave it there. 887 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,359 Speaker 1: After a while, you take it out and you get 888 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,759 Speaker 1: the milk. Okay, it's kind of a stuff of washcloth 889 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,200 Speaker 1: into the roach and then eventually you take it out 890 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,080 Speaker 1: and ring it in, ring it out. That's yeah, that's 891 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,160 Speaker 1: about right. So you may have seen some articles about 892 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: this a couple of years ago because there was a 893 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,279 Speaker 1: new study in analyzing the contents of this cockroach milk, 894 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: and this study was done by a team led by 895 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,919 Speaker 1: the Indian biochemists Supermannion Ramaswamy, and the researchers found that 896 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 1: it was super nutritious. Quote, a single crystal is estimated 897 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 1: to contain more than three times the energy of an 898 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 1: equivalent mass of dairy milk. This unique storage form of 899 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: nourishment for developing embryos allows access to a constant supply 900 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,799 Speaker 1: of complete nutrients. And by the way, of course, the 901 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,920 Speaker 1: way this was covered in the press was there was 902 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,680 Speaker 1: just headline after headline and CNN and everywhere saying the 903 00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: cockroach milk is the next super food. I'm I'm not 904 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,440 Speaker 1: grossed out by that. I was as grossed out as 905 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 1: I am by by roaches us. Really, um, I think 906 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,719 Speaker 1: that falls in line with a lot of what we've 907 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,040 Speaker 1: been seeing about the consumption of insects, and sects is 908 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,600 Speaker 1: the protein source. The future is going to be a 909 00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,960 Speaker 1: place where either you eat the bugs or the bugs 910 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,480 Speaker 1: eat you. Into ma Fiji is the future, and I 911 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,520 Speaker 1: think there's no doubt about that. I mean, it is 912 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,880 Speaker 1: a healthy source of protein. That's I think going to 913 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,280 Speaker 1: be an incredibly important meat substitute in in on future Earth. 914 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,640 Speaker 1: I have to give a quick shout out to the 915 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:32,800 Speaker 1: Audubon Society's UH Insectarium in New Orleans. UH wonderful museum 916 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,240 Speaker 1: with so many different live insects species and some arachnet 917 00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,240 Speaker 1: species to check out. But they also have an area 918 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,880 Speaker 1: where every time you go you get to try a 919 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 1: few different um food items that have been prepared with 920 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,279 Speaker 1: insect protein. And did you try, Oh, I do it 921 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,560 Speaker 1: every time. Did you like it? Yeah? Well, they really 922 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,799 Speaker 1: try and make sure that it's something that you will 923 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,560 Speaker 1: and candy, you know, so it's generally something sweet you 924 00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: know that kids are gonna be into, essentially, you know, 925 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,200 Speaker 1: cookies topped with meal worms, that sort of a thing. 926 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,320 Speaker 1: But it's very I think it's very instructional and insightful 927 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 1: and I'm I'm super glad that they do that and 928 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,880 Speaker 1: provide that kind of uh, you know, educational content in 929 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,560 Speaker 1: addition to just learning about these different insect interactant species. 930 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,880 Speaker 1: I didn't write down what the reference for this was, 931 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,640 Speaker 1: but I did look at a press release about a 932 00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 1: study that found that if you wanted to get people, 933 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,480 Speaker 1: I think what it was was, if you wanted to 934 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,000 Speaker 1: get people to agree to eating insects, you couldn't just 935 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 1: appeal to the idea that it was better for the 936 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,080 Speaker 1: environment or that it was nutritious. You had to convince 937 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 1: them that it was a delicious delicacy and if you 938 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:40,759 Speaker 1: could do that, they would eat the insects. Interesting. I, yeah, 939 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 1: I would love to look at this topic more and 940 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: see what what people were doing along those lines, because 941 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: we often come back to the fact that, like, what's 942 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,480 Speaker 1: the difference ultimately between eating various types of insects in 943 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,320 Speaker 1: eating shrimp or crawl dads or what happened? Yeah, lobster lobster? 944 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,520 Speaker 1: Why is that different? Yeah? So, yeah, I would love 945 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,640 Speaker 1: to talk about about insects more in the future. But 946 00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,440 Speaker 1: I've got en off topic here. Let's get back to 947 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,000 Speaker 1: that delicious roach knock Well, So I brought that up 948 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,600 Speaker 1: just to say that it's probably not true that cockroach 949 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,759 Speaker 1: milk is the next superfood. I think those were just 950 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,960 Speaker 1: some headline grabbers. Uh. Number one, we don't know that 951 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,959 Speaker 1: the milk is safe for human consumption. Humans can often 952 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,279 Speaker 1: become allergic to cockroaches. We don't have a way of 953 00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,200 Speaker 1: milking them at any kind of volume. So it is 954 00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,680 Speaker 1: really interesting research. Nonetheless though a couple of reasons, but 955 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,160 Speaker 1: generally it has to do with the idea of studying 956 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,319 Speaker 1: the proteins in these crystals in the roach milk to 957 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,200 Speaker 1: see if they can be replicated in other production scenarios, 958 00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 1: say by e coal i or by yeast, in ways 959 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,719 Speaker 1: that could deliver better technologies for medicine or nutrition. And 960 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,040 Speaker 1: I was reading an interesting blog post by a biologist 961 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:51,279 Speaker 1: or entomologist named Joe Ballinger, and in this post he 962 00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 1: pointed out that the real discovery here was that there's 963 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,920 Speaker 1: this protein structure in the in the cockroach milk that 964 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,560 Speaker 1: includes a protein that kind of serves as a delivery 965 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,320 Speaker 1: pocket that could be used in other context to shuttle 966 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,799 Speaker 1: drugs or substances around inside the body. And of course 967 00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,920 Speaker 1: that's relevant anytime you've got some kind of delivery or 968 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,560 Speaker 1: micro delivery system that's relevant to future medicines. As for taste, 969 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,959 Speaker 1: on the other hand, reportedly one of Ramaswami's colleagues tried 970 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,480 Speaker 1: the cockroach milk on a dare I think maybe because 971 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,719 Speaker 1: he lost a drinking game or something, and quote he said, 972 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,239 Speaker 1: it doesn't taste like anything special. Well, I wonder how 973 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,640 Speaker 1: much you drank though, Like essentially, if he just its 974 00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:34,400 Speaker 1: like a you know, he dabbed a tiny droplet of it, 975 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,279 Speaker 1: or if he had like a full milk glass of 976 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,359 Speaker 1: the stuff, like you drank a quart of it. Yeah, 977 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:42,920 Speaker 1: I imagine he just came from a million cockroaches, the 978 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,200 Speaker 1: milk of a million cockroaches. It does sound lovely, doesn't it. 979 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,520 Speaker 1: Well that's it for our sampling of non mammalian milks 980 00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,759 Speaker 1: to discuss here. You know, we didn't even get into 981 00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,760 Speaker 1: some of the fictional milks out there that have been consumed. 982 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,879 Speaker 1: How about those creatures in the most recent Star Wars films. Oh, 983 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,719 Speaker 1: in the Last Jedi or Skywalkers drinking? Is it green 984 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,640 Speaker 1: or is it blue? Milk? That comes? Yeah? Oh, that 985 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,040 Speaker 1: that's like the best scene. I loved that. It kind 986 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,160 Speaker 1: of made the movie for me. Yeah, I enjoyed that film. 987 00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,480 Speaker 1: I did too. Um. You know another one that comes up. 988 00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,160 Speaker 1: It's been a long time since I've seen this, but 989 00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:19,200 Speaker 1: the David Cronenberg adaptation of William Burrows Naked Lunch. I 990 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,799 Speaker 1: believe the mud wump creatures in that film UH secreted 991 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:28,200 Speaker 1: some sort of substance that was consumed by by various characters. 992 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:30,239 Speaker 1: It's been a while since I've seen it. I don't 993 00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,200 Speaker 1: exactly remember what the whole deal was there, I must 994 00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:37,040 Speaker 1: confess I've never seen it. Oh, it's it's interesting and 995 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,600 Speaker 1: the book is a classic of its generation. But off hand, 996 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,279 Speaker 1: I can't think of any other you know, key like 997 00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:49,560 Speaker 1: alien milks or monster milks and UH in cinema or fiction. Though, 998 00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,600 Speaker 1: this would be a good thing to to call out 999 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:55,000 Speaker 1: to our our listeners about what what are some of 1000 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,719 Speaker 1: your your favorite or at least notable examples of of 1001 00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,160 Speaker 1: non mammalian UH, you know, a fictional creature milks out there? 1002 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,080 Speaker 1: And indeed, I want to know what dinosaur milks other 1003 00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,920 Speaker 1: people would like to consume. Now, as I said earlier 1004 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,799 Speaker 1: in this episode, while I've really enjoyed exploring this anomalous 1005 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,000 Speaker 1: non mammalian milk, we could probably do a whole show 1006 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,120 Speaker 1: in the future just on the magic of true milk. 1007 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,600 Speaker 1: Of mammal milk. It is a fascinating subject and there's 1008 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,280 Speaker 1: a lot we didn't even have time to talk about today. Likewise, 1009 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,160 Speaker 1: I would love to do an episode that goes more 1010 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,040 Speaker 1: in death on cockroaches. I mean there there's a whole 1011 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,680 Speaker 1: lot there that we didn't even touch on here today, 1012 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:38,799 Speaker 1: or squash beneath our boot they're six legged saints? All right? Well, um, 1013 00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,439 Speaker 1: uh we thank you for listening to this episode within 1014 00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,760 Speaker 1: which we discussed the milk of the six legged Saint, 1015 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,080 Speaker 1: and uh we hope you'll tune in some more. We 1016 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,880 Speaker 1: have a couple of other holiday episodes coming up, but 1017 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,080 Speaker 1: more than I more than I expected. But I think 1018 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,520 Speaker 1: I'm I'm embracing the holidays a little more this year. 1019 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,440 Speaker 1: You've been leaning in. I have people out there. You're 1020 00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,759 Speaker 1: gonna be surprised all the stuff Bert has wanted to 1021 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,120 Speaker 1: talk about this month. I'm I think I'm giving in 1022 00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,120 Speaker 1: to the holidays this year. I finally realized that it's 1023 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,040 Speaker 1: not it's not courage to fight it, it's courage to 1024 00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:13,440 Speaker 1: to give in. Uh. To paraphrase a quote from one 1025 00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:17,240 Speaker 1: of my favorite holiday films, Ravenous. Uh, so hey, if 1026 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,560 Speaker 1: you want to uh listen to other episodes of Stuff 1027 00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:20,960 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind or keep an eye out for 1028 00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,680 Speaker 1: new ones. Head on over to the mother ships stuff 1029 00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:25,560 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. That's where we'll find 1030 00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,600 Speaker 1: all the episodes, links out to areas, see various social 1031 00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,000 Speaker 1: media accounts, and there's also a button at the top 1032 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,760 Speaker 1: of the page for our store. That's our t public store. 1033 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,360 Speaker 1: We'll find all sorts of cool shirt stickers, throw pillows, 1034 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,840 Speaker 1: tote bags, you name it, as logos for the show, 1035 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,280 Speaker 1: and also some other cool designs like Cambrian Life logo, 1036 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,240 Speaker 1: the Skug King of the Rats, all Hell, the Great Basilisk, 1037 00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,320 Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. It's a great way to 1038 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,160 Speaker 1: support the show, but if you want to support the 1039 00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,920 Speaker 1: show without spending a dime, rate and review us wherever 1040 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:57,800 Speaker 1: you have the power to do so. It really helps 1041 00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,400 Speaker 1: us out big. Thanks as always to are super awesome 1042 00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:05,680 Speaker 1: audio producers Alex Williams and Tori Harrison. If you would 1043 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:07,720 Speaker 1: like to get in touch with us with feedback about 1044 00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,480 Speaker 1: this episode or any other, or would like to suggest 1045 00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,560 Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just get in touch 1046 00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,920 Speaker 1: and say hi, you can email us at blow the 1047 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:27,480 Speaker 1: Mind at how stuff works dot com for more on 1048 00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,320 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it, how stuff works, 1049 00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:43,120 Speaker 1: dot com, gold,