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Speaker 1: Episode three sixty with Marcus Dowling, who is a great,

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Speaker 1: great writer who is really on the scene in country

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Speaker 1: music right now. He talks about the format, the genre,

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Speaker 1: where it's going, where it's been. He's worked on a

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Speaker 1: lot of different formats. It's interesting to hear his story

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Speaker 1: about being in West Virginia and being introduced to country music.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's done three thousand interviews over fifteen years,

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Speaker 1: So I always like to bring in someone in a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, she just interviewed me for when I

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Speaker 1: did Snake in the Grass. That's how I met him,

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Speaker 1: and I went in. I was like, Dange, this guy.

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Speaker 1: He's really good. But there's a lot of good people,

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Speaker 1: but there was something about him, and I think I

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Speaker 1: mentioned it. He asked me a question I've never been

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Speaker 1: asked before. And it wasn't just that, because you can

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Speaker 1: ask me a lot of questions. I've never been asked,

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Speaker 1: like what color is a dog's liver? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I've never been asked that before, but he was like

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Speaker 1: it was right on. I was like, da, that's a

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Speaker 1: great question. So he's just done so much. And I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say a whole lot here because I

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Speaker 1: think he says most of it. Mike, any takeaway from

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Speaker 1: this interview, I mean it felt like a master class

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Speaker 1: in like country music. That was really good. He is

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Speaker 1: the Nashville country music reporter for the Tennessee In, which

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Speaker 1: is part of the USA Today Network, which basically is

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Speaker 1: the biggest country music writer in America, and was the

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Speaker 1: recipient of the Rolling Stone Chat Flipball Award for Excellence

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Speaker 1: and Country music Journalism. What I want to say too

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Speaker 1: is gonna be very vague. We had to cut something

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Speaker 1: from this because there's another award dish thing happening, and

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Speaker 1: he we talked about it, but he can't talk about

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Speaker 1: it right now. But can't. Yes, but he's very decorated.

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Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this because I definitely did. Marcus

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Speaker 1: Dowling follow him Marcus K. Dowling on Instagram and Twitter,

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Speaker 1: And here we go, episode three sixty. Well, now we've

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Speaker 1: flipped roles because the last time I was in the

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Speaker 1: same room, and you're putting to be pretty good in

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Speaker 1: a good way. Yeah, No, I'm here for it. I

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Speaker 1: think before we continue on, let's so I met you.

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Speaker 1: Because I don't want to measure a position up. You're

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Speaker 1: like King Dingling a country music that's all King Dingling writer,

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Speaker 1: I am the Nashville country musical for at the Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: which actually sounds really cool and their substance there. But

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Speaker 1: it's even bigger than that in my mind, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of your stuff gets put in the USA Today

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Speaker 1: because this is the hub. Yeah, this is the Nashville.

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Speaker 1: Nashville is the Tennessee hub for the USA Today network,

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Speaker 1: which is owned by Gannett. So it's a whole, like

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Speaker 1: multi tiered system. And since Nashville is the Tennessee Hub

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Speaker 1: or since whatever, and you're running country music, that's that's

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Speaker 1: your that's your whole yes area, yes, yes, like girl,

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Speaker 1: I think on your on your cards or your your

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Speaker 1: digital card. Now I should just say King Dingling of

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Speaker 1: writers for country music, you can have that. I'd let

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Speaker 1: you have it. I wish I appreciate it, Like I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's funny because I work with Matt lan Cooler and

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Speaker 1: Dave Paulson at the Paper and they've been in the

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Speaker 1: space as well for a long long time, so it's

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Speaker 1: a funny thing. It's like I came into this and

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Speaker 1: was around a lot of bloggers and younger writers who

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Speaker 1: were like oh country music. I love it and really excited.

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Speaker 1: And then when I interviewed at the paper, I met

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Speaker 1: with Matt and Dave, and as like a journalistic in general,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, like, those guys are great, and it was

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Speaker 1: it was the first moment where it was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: so like I can actually like at my age and

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable into that and feel like this is the

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Speaker 1: level that I was supposed to be at all along.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's it's fascinating just some of the stories

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Speaker 1: that I've seen because I started following you on Instagram

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Speaker 1: after we met. We went away, and I was like, dang,

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Speaker 1: like like, I liked you, thank you. I get interviewed

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Speaker 1: by folks all the time, but I was like, day,

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Speaker 1: I like him. I don't follow anybody interviews me. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate that. And I was like, that's cool. I liked him.

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Speaker 1: So I followed you, and then I started to see

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Speaker 1: your stories because I follow your Instagram account, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, is it's just your name at Marcus with

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Speaker 1: the C K Dowling d w L. I n g Oh,

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Speaker 1: there's a kid Marcus K. Dowling. Yeah, k okay, so

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Speaker 1: Marcus K. Dowling and he puts these little things up

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Speaker 1: and it looks like a mini version of a written story.

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Speaker 1: It's a little digital deal. And I saw one and

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Speaker 1: you were with jelly Roll, yes, and so I would

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Speaker 1: like to hear your takeaway from your time with jelly Roll,

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Speaker 1: because I spent some time with jelly Roll as well.

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Speaker 1: It's funny with jelly So I worked in hip hop

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Speaker 1: for gosh over a decade, and I became aware of

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Speaker 1: jelly Roll in two thousand and tennish when he was

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Speaker 1: I think he was just he had just stopped working

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Speaker 1: with Juicy J and h working with Hypnotized Mind Records,

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Speaker 1: I think. And it was him a little white and

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Speaker 1: a couple other like you know, trap rappers were renowned

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Speaker 1: independent Southern trap rappers. And I knew who he was

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Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, this is cool, and like

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Speaker 1: you got incarcerated, went away. He came out of prison

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Speaker 1: and he popped back up on my radar like almost

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Speaker 1: like indie rock thing, and I was like, okay, it

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Speaker 1: was the same guy. And then I listened to the

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Speaker 1: songs and I was like, okay, there's there's like legitimacy

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Speaker 1: here and it's not just like okay, kind of like

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Speaker 1: throwaway blog ready trapped rock kind of thing. And then

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Speaker 1: I dug even deeper and I was like, Okay, So

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Speaker 1: at the same time that he was having his rise,

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Speaker 1: yellow Wolf was having his rise. He had a song

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Speaker 1: called Pop the Trunk that I adore. Who I knew

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Speaker 1: yellow Wolf from being interested by eminem way back in

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Speaker 1: the day. Yes, exactly right. So I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So he has legitimacy of my eyes from way prior

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Speaker 1: to this moment right now. And for me, the thing

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Speaker 1: about him that's important is that he's able to synergize

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Speaker 1: on a very street level and country rock hip hop

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Speaker 1: hasn't operated on a street level ever before. And the

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Speaker 1: Antioch thing that he's into right now, like that's his

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Speaker 1: like his reps, his community that's very much out of

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Speaker 1: hip hop, and he's doing this thing in rock and country,

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Speaker 1: like he has a number one rock song and very

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Speaker 1: soon that will be a number one country song. And

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Speaker 1: for a country to have that kind of street level legitimacy,

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Speaker 1: I think the closest that I could think of to

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Speaker 1: it is like if you talk about like William, those

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Speaker 1: guys in Austin and you know, mid seventies, like that's

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Speaker 1: the closest thing to it, but it's different because it's

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Speaker 1: got that hip hop flavor to it, So it's a

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Speaker 1: different swagger. What about some of the the Atlantic country guys though,

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Speaker 1: like a little I wouldn't say as my little well,

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Speaker 1: like like Zach Brown for example. Yeah, yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: think that's different in the sense that Zack doesn't have

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Speaker 1: like a hip hop a true like deep embedded hip

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Speaker 1: hop like legitimacy, like I know, but Willy Willie didn't

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Speaker 1: have it, right, That's what I'm saying. It was different, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was saying is there is definitely different in the

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Speaker 1: sense that that hip hop swagger has not been present

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Speaker 1: in the space probably ever in this way, right. I

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Speaker 1: guess my only thing when you're referencing Willie was people

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Speaker 1: that stay in their home, right, rep their home hard

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Speaker 1: and don't really go where everybody else's they have to go.

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Speaker 1: And and that's not even a hip hop thing. But

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Speaker 1: it's rare in country music, right, I mean it's on

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Speaker 1: some level. You see it with old be making in

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Speaker 1: the same way here. Yeah, he's got a whole record,

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Speaker 1: So what do you think of what do you think

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Speaker 1: about a jelly role? I'm a huge fan Um. I

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Speaker 1: think he's um. To me, he is Country's answer to

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Speaker 1: Biggie and what in what regard charismatic and and and

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Speaker 1: sensual and in a way that you're not expecting. Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm forty four, so I still remember when Biggie was

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Speaker 1: a breaking artist and like reading about him in a

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Speaker 1: source and like seeing on MTV for the first time,

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Speaker 1: seeing him on BT for the first time, and You're like,

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Speaker 1: there's something about this guy is an allure there, and

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Speaker 1: then there's also obvious talent and you you don't get

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Speaker 1: that mix of alluring talent in that frame of body.

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Speaker 1: That's a very rare thing. And to me, he has

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Speaker 1: that in SPADs and to be able to have that

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Speaker 1: in Country, which has already been trending towards hip hop already,

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Speaker 1: there's a space that he can uniquely occupy. That is

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Speaker 1: there that I don't think necessarily a lot of people see,

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Speaker 1: but I I feel it when I see him. I'm like, this,

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Speaker 1: this guy is Biggie, like he he is, you know,

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Speaker 1: for me, coming with my background into this space, being

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Speaker 1: able to like see that and know that and reflect that.

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Speaker 1: I hope that that adds some kind of value to

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Speaker 1: his development. I liked him because he was very authentic.

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Speaker 1: And there's a difference then being authentic about the things

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Speaker 1: you want to be authentic about and then just going

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Speaker 1: what what what do you want? We'll do it all.

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Speaker 1: And I can tell us someone who gets interviewed and

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Speaker 1: does a lot of interviews, when someone is being authentic

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Speaker 1: about the things they want to be authentic about, or

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Speaker 1: they're just a for real person and I'll dance with

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Speaker 1: you wherever you want. And I like even when I

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Speaker 1: feel like the most authentic person at times will go

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd rather not talk about that because they

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Speaker 1: would rather not and they're being honest, but they'll tell

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Speaker 1: you and everything else is wide open. A lot of folks,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's almost like it's the opposite of what

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Speaker 1: it should be. I feel like the most real people,

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Speaker 1: if you get to a place that they don't want

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Speaker 1: to talk, they'll just go ahead, I don't want talk

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Speaker 1: about it, instead of like faking you out a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I think he's a person that has markedly less

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Speaker 1: to lose than anybody else in the top country space

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Speaker 1: by by a large margin. I think you and I

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Speaker 1: are similar in that we grew up on country music,

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Speaker 1: but we worked in other places for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, I grew up in Arkansas. My grandmother

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Speaker 1: shoved country music down my throat when I was a young,

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Speaker 1: young kid, and I thought what was contemporary? I thought,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a new country, and it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It was her country, right, And so then I get

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Speaker 1: tow Olver thirteen, and I'm like, all right, I still

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Speaker 1: love it. I'm a listen to it, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go do it. I'm gonna do some alternative stuff. I'm

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Speaker 1: just some hip hop stuff, you know. And I worked

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Speaker 1: in pop and alternative radio, I worked in hip hop.

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Speaker 1: So I feel blessed to have like all these tentacles

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Speaker 1: that have been exposed to other things that allow me

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Speaker 1: to see things a bit differently or or able to

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Speaker 1: see transitions. Now where we are. It's it's I think

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Speaker 1: it's why people either love you gonna hate you, because

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Speaker 1: in country there's not that acknowledgement of having a breadth

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Speaker 1: of influence. Because again I always tell people, country is

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Speaker 1: ninety five years old as a musical genre. It is

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Speaker 1: arguably the oldest pop musical genre in the space like pop,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, people say to blues whatever, but it's

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Speaker 1: like popular, like you know, mainstream music country, and so

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Speaker 1: troubling that and trying to think about that and look

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Speaker 1: at that from different perspectives frustrates people, or it makes

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Speaker 1: it incredibly excited because you know, but it's a very

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Speaker 1: much line in the sand conversation, or I feel like

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Speaker 1: they're ill educated because country music came from basically two places,

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Speaker 1: the slave ships and Europe exactly. It's two out influences

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Speaker 1: that came over to the States, and people they're like,

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Speaker 1: we don't like our outside influence. Country music is all

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Speaker 1: outside interface. But even that is a collision that is awkward,

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Speaker 1: that's troubled by you know, like American history. So it's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: So it's like you have like people who are from

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Speaker 1: a folk background in Appalachia, and you have of you know,

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Speaker 1: black people who bring their brandes over from Africa, and

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Speaker 1: that's troubled by slavery as a concept, so and in reality,

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Speaker 1: and when you combine those things together, that's obviously a

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Speaker 1: point of real tension. And it's always always been tense

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Speaker 1: um for me. It's like when I talk about, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the Black country movement, a thing that

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Speaker 1: people obviously like associate me with it a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: It's like I say, Okay, so we we've been this

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Speaker 1: tense for a very long time. UM acknowledging that we're

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Speaker 1: not gonna make this any less tense tomorrow. It's not

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Speaker 1: that the goal is to not make this less tense.

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Speaker 1: The goal is to make this more right. And that

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Speaker 1: acknowledging that and accepting that, I think is the first thing.

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Speaker 1: And and I don't know what if it's in our conversation,

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Speaker 1: but I just wanted to make sure that was said. No,

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Speaker 1: if it's in our conversation, and that that's why you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about all the time, every day, all day, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's why we try to put it along all

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Speaker 1: the time. You know, when you talk about I'm don't

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Speaker 1: say genre bending, because it's not even what it is

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Speaker 1: any more. But people that are open to outside influences

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Speaker 1: inside the genre, like Hardy. And I saw your story

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Speaker 1: with Hardy. Yeah, yeah, I went to Whiskey Jamon had too,

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Speaker 1: and so I know Hardy a little bit. What is

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Speaker 1: your takeaway from from spending time with Hardy? He's a

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Speaker 1: rock star in the most authentic sense of it. And

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Speaker 1: I think that the journey for him is has been

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Speaker 1: backwards in some ways because there's a lot of reclamation

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Speaker 1: of like early two thousand's late nineties rock tropes that

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Speaker 1: he's finally come to a point in his career where

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Speaker 1: I think success allows you to be able to have

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Speaker 1: that space, to be able to say, Okay, I want

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Speaker 1: to make like a puddle of mud kid rock like

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Speaker 1: early two thousand's pop mainstream top forty record, and when

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Speaker 1: you hear like sold out, you're like, okay, Like you

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Speaker 1: can call it whatever you want, but I know that

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Speaker 1: that's a rock record, and I know that that identifies

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Speaker 1: him as a rock star and exactly everything that that

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Speaker 1: means is exactly what it means, and for him to

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Speaker 1: be able to do that, it's important, incredibly important, And

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Speaker 1: I think that that's part of the conversation if you

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Speaker 1: could say that, like you know Brelan is doing this

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Speaker 1: or Jimmy's doing that, and you know other artists are

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Speaker 1: doing whatever. To say that hard he's willing to be

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Speaker 1: a rock star in the country space is as important

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Speaker 1: and as necessary because we don't necessarily we haven't had

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Speaker 1: people fully embrace the rock thing like it's like you've

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Speaker 1: been a rock star, which youself to wear the cowboy hat,

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Speaker 1: you know, and there's none of that in Hardy's like

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Speaker 1: you know, like presentation right now. Where he gets the

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Speaker 1: cred that people go, you don't have to wear a

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Speaker 1: cowboy hat is that he writes great country songs, and

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Speaker 1: people go, well, he's country because he writes all these

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Speaker 1: great country songs exactly, and I think that there's value

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Speaker 1: in that. Is the same thing with him and with

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Speaker 1: Ernest too, and it says that Ernest was a rapper

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Speaker 1: long before he was a country artist. And in that

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Speaker 1: sense where it's like you can make music, but as

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Speaker 1: in some in some way, if your career touches an

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Speaker 1: intrinsic part of like the country like architecture, Like if

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Speaker 1: you're a writer or a producer or ranger or session musician, whatever.

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Speaker 1: If you do something else, that's fine, but if you

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Speaker 1: have a piece of that that is like authentically country.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's where, like the Robber hits,

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Speaker 1: I think for me, what allowed me to push through

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Speaker 1: the first few years when I was constantly attacked for

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Speaker 1: not being country was that I grew up country. I'm

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Speaker 1: from a rural town that I wouldn't like go to

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Speaker 1: my home. I'd be like, go go to my home.

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Speaker 1: I'm for Washington, d C. You imagine me, I think

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Speaker 1: to your point, like eventually people are just like, all right,

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Speaker 1: we have to believe him because he's not somebody from

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Speaker 1: you know, uh Brooklyn. That's go and trust me. I'm

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Speaker 1: It's like, go listen to me talk, go to my home.

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Speaker 1: And that was only one but I had. I had that,

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Speaker 1: like I touched that. That was part of even though

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Speaker 1: I had all these other influences. Of course, of course,

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Speaker 1: you and I grew up in the napster, yes, and

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Speaker 1: I think we were the first generation two. We didn't

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Speaker 1: have to work very hard to be exposed other things.

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Speaker 1: We just had to be open to liking other things,

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Speaker 1: and that was pretty easy because it was all available.

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Speaker 1: So so I was a DJ in high school and

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Speaker 1: college and part of like when I graduating college, my

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Speaker 1: first job out of college was DJing at small bars

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Speaker 1: in and around like Georgetown and George Washington University area

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Speaker 1: about d C. And I was a DJ. I was

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Speaker 1: blessed to be DJ in late nineties and early two

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Speaker 1: thousand's because you would get like the C D books

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Speaker 1: and everything was in there, you know, like and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was typically playing college bars. So you're playing everything

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Speaker 1: from like Sweet Caroline to again like Limp Biscuit, and

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Speaker 1: then you're playing like House of Pain and method Man,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's like all the same night. And

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Speaker 1: if you don't understand how to facilitate the transitions, you're

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Speaker 1: bad DJ. And that's like the last thing you want

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Speaker 1: to be. So like you start to just like intrinsically understand,

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Speaker 1: and you know, just LifeWise, I'm curious, intense curiosity. So

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Speaker 1: you know that that was just part and parcel of

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Speaker 1: it for me. Where did your love of country music

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Speaker 1: come from? Gonna win? Oh? Gosh? Okay? So I was

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Speaker 1: eight years old six um the year before for summer vacation.

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Speaker 1: My mom took myself, had a friend of mine to Florida.

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Speaker 1: We drove down from d C to Orlando to Disney World.

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Speaker 1: On the way back, our car broke down and we

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Speaker 1: had to fly back. My mother was like, I will

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Speaker 1: never incur that expense ever again to take you on vacation. Ever.

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Speaker 1: My that was the that was the that what she

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Speaker 1: got from it. No more vacations for you. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: was like, she was like because she had to immediately

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Speaker 1: buy like four plane tickets. And she was like, that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that. Like I grew up around

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Speaker 1: the quarter from Section eight housing. That was not going

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Speaker 1: to be a thing that my mother wanted to do.

335
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Speaker 1: So my aunt had won two double wise on the

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Speaker 1: prices right in, Yeah she wanted so she one like

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Speaker 1: she won. She won the pricing game and then she

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Speaker 1: did the double showcase showdown thing where you're within a

339
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Speaker 1: hundred dollars. Yeah, so she won like that you want

340
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Speaker 1: both showed out? Yeah, So yeah, so she had. So

341
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Speaker 1: there were two. There was a double ye trailer in

342
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Speaker 1: the pricing game and there was a double Ye trailer

343
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Speaker 1: in the showcase, so she had too. So she parked

344
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Speaker 1: them in Falling Waters, West Virginia, and we went up

345
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Speaker 1: there to like rent the trailers for two weeks. And

346
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Speaker 1: there was a family that lived across the path and

347
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Speaker 1: they had like the aluminum siding double ye like they

348
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Speaker 1: lived at the trailer park and they had two kids.

349
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Speaker 1: And they saw those women and her boyfriend and my

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Speaker 1: mother's boyfriend at the time, and my friend who was

351
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Speaker 1: with me lad the year Briar, Like they saw us

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Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, we have two kids, and if

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Speaker 1: you just want to hang out with your boyfriend all night,

354
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Speaker 1: like we could take your kids off your hands. And promptly,

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Speaker 1: I was sent across the path on Friday y Saturday

356
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Speaker 1: nights in Falling Waters, West Virginia. Whatever local TV you

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Speaker 1: know stations they had there, they would have he Hall,

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Speaker 1: followed by the grand Old Obry and this. I'm I'm

359
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Speaker 1: an eighties baby, so I kind of knew what country

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Speaker 1: music was. My mom watched Dallas, like I knew who

361
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Speaker 1: Kenny Rogers was by site, who Dolly Parton was by site,

362
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Speaker 1: Conway Twitty, but like you'd watch the hun Opery, and

363
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Speaker 1: these people like didn't look like countrypolitan eighties stars. They

364
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 1: looked like, you know, like the the you know, duty

365
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Speaker 1: suits and you know, like the like the square dancers

366
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Speaker 1: and with their taps and the whole get up. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like in tassels, and I'm like, these people look crazy.

368
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Speaker 1: And I'm eight years old, and I grew up where

369
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Speaker 1: I grew up, so I haven't heard a lot of

370
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Speaker 1: Southern accents in my life. So I'm like, these people

371
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Speaker 1: sound crazy, but I'm like the stories are incredible. So

372
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Speaker 1: I just became hooked and that's it's always kind of

373
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Speaker 1: trailed me in life. Like at every point in my life,

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Speaker 1: like I've always made time to like check in with

375
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Speaker 1: country music. Like so I had like a deep curiosity

376
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Speaker 1: and a passing knowledge of like whatever was pop of

377
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Speaker 1: the era. But like my my real wheelhouse was like

378
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Speaker 1: between like always say sixty and eighty three, that's my wheelhouse.

379
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Speaker 1: Those that's of stuff that like I'll always go back

380
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Speaker 1: to and listen to. Like it's like, yeah, this is

381
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Speaker 1: like if I'm like driving down the road or if

382
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Speaker 1: I'm like taking run or whatever. Like if you knocked

383
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Speaker 1: you over the head and grab my Spotify playlist, you'd

384
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Speaker 1: see a lot of that stuff. So West Virginia it

385
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Speaker 1: turns out to be kind of the birthplace a country

386
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Speaker 1: music love. Keith Whitley, like Dolly Parton, come Way Twitty,

387
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Speaker 1: like Kay Rogers. You know. Charlie Pride was like what

388
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Speaker 1: your mom think about her kid listen to country music?

389
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Speaker 1: Oh my god, mom hated it. Yeah, hated it. Oh

390
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Speaker 1: she hated it. She was like like every single trope

391
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Speaker 1: of like white redneck America. She like fostered whatever. I

392
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Speaker 1: would listen to country music for any extending period of time,

393
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Speaker 1: she'd be like, oh, well, you know they're all rednecks

394
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 1: or oh, like you know you should learn that's how

395
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Speaker 1: learn about the Civil War. Like I was like, well,

396
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you listen to this music,

397
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,919
Speaker 1: there's all these you know, their Confederates and and this

398
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 1: is how the Civil War happened. And I'm like ten

399
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 1: years old, and I'm like wow, really, but I'm like

400
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 1: look at that shirt. Oh, I'm like he look, Jesse

401
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 1: Colter looks really cool on TV. So what am I

402
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 1: supposed to do? So you listen to country music? But

403
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: probably also because that's the golden age, the birth of

404
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 1: hip hop. I mean that's when I so I did. Ah,

405
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 1: it's funny. I did a panel for UM Music bisin

406
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Speaker 1: conference and I was myself with one the duo um

407
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: The the ex girlfriend of Riz and her daughter are

408
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 1: in a country too. And when I was preparing them

409
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: for the thing, like she's you know, like obviously gotta

410
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Speaker 1: connection with New York hip hop. It's all like when

411
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Speaker 1: you think about like great storytellers, who pops in your

412
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Speaker 1: head and she goes, well, I think about She's like

413
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 1: I think about Slick Rick. And I was like, oh,

414
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: so we should get UPLI stage and do Children's Story.

415
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Speaker 1: And we did in front of like an entire room

416
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Speaker 1: of like you know, country music executives, and they look

417
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: at us, like and I was explaining the story of

418
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 1: the song and they're like, wow, it was I'm not

419
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Speaker 1: off the stage just when it comes up to me

420
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 1: and she goes, you know, I might like wrap. Now

421
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: she's like in her sixties. Clearly, I'm just like wow,

422
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: Like it took me to like explain to you, like

423
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: the first eight bars of children's story for you to

424
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: get it, okay, cool, whatever it takes right for me.

425
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: A good writer or even as a curator, they don't

426
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 1: have an agenda, but they have an agenda at the

427
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: same time to give people a different outlook or maybe

428
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: expose them in a different way. Yeah, you're you're dead

429
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: on with that. So so there's no agenda in that

430
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 1: you're going to create a story. But maybe and I'm

431
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: saying you, I'm just gonna do yeah, I'll do me.

432
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: I'll do me. No, we could do me. It's it

433
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,199
Speaker 1: doesn't matter either way. So I don't want to just

434
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 1: some bull crap and make and give you some false facts.

435
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: But I definitely have a perspective constantly and consistently about

436
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: how I feel about this genre, and I've been praise

437
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 1: and ridiculed at the highest points. I'm both and I've

438
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: always had this perspective in its mind and I own it.

439
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: Now Here are you. You're here now and you're writing.

440
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: You are writing for the biggest, the most powerful publication

441
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: that writes on country music. So you have to have

442
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 1: that not an agenda to make things happen, but an

443
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: agenda to cover it from your perspective. It's a thing

444
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 1: with like so being God is my boss at the paper.

445
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: We had to sit down conversation like first day. He's like, well,

446
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: what do you think about the job? And I'm like, well,

447
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: we just have to cover the best music. And to me,

448
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: that's like so great greatest side. Like I saw Morgan

449
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: Wallan twice at the bridge Stone Arena. This is after

450
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 1: I spent most of last year like writing like honest,

451
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 1: hard hitting, brutal, real pieces about racism. But I'm like,

452
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: he also has four billion streams on Spotify, So like, yeah,

453
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit there for two nights because I need

454
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: to understand impartially because I care more about the job

455
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: and I care more about the readership of the Tennessee

456
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: and and I care about what anybody thinks about me

457
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: because I know, at the end of the day, I

458
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: have to have an unbiased, unfettered opinion about all of this.

459
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: If my opinion stops at Scent of country music and

460
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 1: there's point three of it that sells out sells twenty

461
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: five artists whom I think we're great, then I'm not

462
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: doing my job. So like, for me, that's the thing,

463
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: It's like, I'll do that. I'll also write about Joe Clark,

464
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 1: who's an amazing virtuo so like black lesbian guitarist who

465
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: like you know, I met at American Fest last year

466
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: and she's now playing with Alison Russell's band, All right

467
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 1: about her in the same space, Like that's what you do,

468
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: because it's like to me, I look at I have

469
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: a week, like I have a white board. It's like

470
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: the week of country music. And if I'm not covering,

471
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: to me, what are the most compelling stories that week?

472
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: Even once they pushed me and stretch me and make

473
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: me have to like step outside of myself or reconsider

474
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: things or notions that I would have outside of me

475
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: having this job. That's what I do. You know, I could,

476
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 1: like I said, I went to Whiskey Jams, like you know,

477
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: like a lot of my friends who like, you know,

478
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: look at me from DC or wherever else and they're like,

479
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: so you like went to like Whiskey jm for like

480
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: four hours and like sat there and like watch these

481
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: guys like play country music. I'm like yeah, and they're

482
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: like why, and I'm like, well, it's the culture of

483
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: the city. I'm like, if you actually go to Lower Broadway,

484
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: the music that Hardy and Earnest and Ben Burgers are

485
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,239
Speaker 1: making kind of like defines the top one per cent

486
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: what Nashville is doing on some level, and I wouldn't

487
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: be doing my job, Like yeah, is it is it

488
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: a fascinating thing to do, of course, but that's the job,

489
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: So of course I go to do the job. I

490
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: do the job. First, is your agenda to cover the

491
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: most compelling music stories, Because somebody's agenda could be to

492
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: cover the newest like breaking artists, or to cover you know,

493
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: there's there's all yeah. So but to me, it's like

494
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: if if it's a it's a rule I have with

495
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,479
Speaker 1: the new artists, right, because nobody's new a country everybody

496
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: takes like, you know, a decade to become news. It's

497
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. But to me, it's like, if you're

498
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: new and you're making the best music in my unbiased opinion,

499
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: then I'm going to have something to say about the

500
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 1: music that you were making, like unquestionably, And that's the thing.

501
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: It's like, like, for right now, I have like two

502
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: stories I'm working on about Pillbox Patty because Nicolette is

503
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: in a plus level writer and her music is expanding

504
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: the expectations of what women doing the genre in a

505
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: way that hasn't been expanded in like fifty years, and

506
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have to cover that. And and she's new.

507
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: You know, she's if I walked down the street to

508
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: to the public's one percent of the people in publics

509
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: and know who she is. But am I gonna put

510
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: her into Tennessee and absolutely, Like she's making great music

511
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: and she's on the Ashley McBride album, and you know

512
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: she's got her stuff and you know she's she's working

513
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: and relevant. So that's why I look at it. I

514
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: saw he did a story on Ronnie Done absolutely because

515
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: he has a new record out. Yeah, what's your experience

516
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: personally like with Ronnie, Like you go to a room

517
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: and you meet him, how does Ronnie come off to you? Well,

518
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: for me, Ronnie Donne is like essential to country because people,

519
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: if you don't know country music, you would really wonder

520
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: why I would give a million craps about somebody from Oklahoma,

521
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: Like to me, Oklahoma, Texas, that area, that red dirt area,

522
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: that to me is like the bread and butter of

523
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: the genre. And Ronnie understands that space better than almost anybody.

524
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: He's like, unquestionably people want to ask by Neon Moon

525
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: is one of the greatest songs of all time because

526
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: it for a large part of an enormous genre in music.

527
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: That song best defines what that look, sound, feel and

528
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: texture of a of a of a culture feels like.

529
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: And when you talk to him, it's just like, it's funny.

530
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: He's the only person I've ever met who, if you

531
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 1: put him on too high of a pedestal, will immediately

532
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: lower himself to your level by talking. Like we were

533
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: talking and he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah this, But you

534
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: have you heard Parker McCollum. He's on my record, and

535
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: he's like that guy he looks better, he looks like

536
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: he stepped out of the gym and I like, you

537
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: know his look because he's got that Texas thing going on,

538
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: and you're just like wow, because it's the funny thing

539
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,719
Speaker 1: I learned from him, was like, especially, it's the thing

540
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: that I love about country is that you could be

541
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: at the pinnacle of the space, but because you feel

542
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: competition every day, because Nashville is that kind of town.

543
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: Were like, somebody could have forty five number one hits

544
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: and somebody has fifty tw walks in the room right

545
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 1: after them. Like you're always competing, You're always working, so

546
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: you're always comparing yourself to whatever you feel is the newest, hottest, youngest,

547
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: most relevant thing because you're almost like trying to figure out, well,

548
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: where do I compare and my better or my worst

549
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: or what could I do to like meet or exceed

550
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: that level. I don't want you to stay in names,

551
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: because I wouldn't say names if you ask me this question, either,

552
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: But do you ever because you get to sit down

553
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: and get intimate with these folks usually go to a

554
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: place where they're comfortable, and when they're comfortable, they get

555
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: comfortable faster. Yeah you ever said with someone and go

556
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: all right? This person is not even really in this

557
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: They're they're putting on something that's completely false just to

558
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: make a buck, or because they couldn't they couldn't hit

559
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: it somewhere else. It's it's a funny thing with me

560
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: when it comes to interviewing, because you've you, I have

561
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: interviewed you, you've been in and you've sat across from me.

562
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:33,239
Speaker 1: My job is to pull down your barrier before we

563
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: even asked the first serious question. If I can't pull

564
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: down the barrier, then I know that, like I know

565
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: something about this person is not at all legitimate or

566
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: relevant in what they're trying to do or trying to accomplish.

567
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: And I find ways to make sure that I meet

568
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: my subject wherever they are in their creative process and

569
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: what they're doing. Like that, to me is more important

570
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 1: than anything like understanding, like, Okay, you make music because

571
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: you just want to meet cool girls. A lot of

572
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: people who make country music because they want to meet

573
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: cool girls. They want to meet a life, they want

574
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: to have three kids in a you know, four car garage,

575
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: and that's it. And if I could find that in

576
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: that person and we dive in on that, and then

577
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: I'll work back way into the music and all the

578
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: other stuff I need. Then that's an interview of value

579
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: because I've I've found something about this person where I

580
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: know that I'm going to get pure, honest, unadulterated facts

581
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: and for them, when I come at them at that

582
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: level half of the interview, sometimes I feel like they're

583
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 1: like off put because they're like, wait, how does this

584
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: guy know that about me? That is strange and weird?

585
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: And I've never really told anybody that, but and that

586
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: just comes from me from years of just like observing people.

587
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: Like music is people. You know, It's like if you

588
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: sing a song or you write a song, something of

589
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: yourself is in that song, and me, as a journalist,

590
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: my job is to like figure that thing out and

591
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: expose it to the whole world and hopefully that impacts

592
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: there development or their fan base or their economic bottom

593
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: line or whatever. I don't know if it was strategy

594
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: by you, because if it was, it was an awesome

595
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: I wonder if I just happened to be the luck

596
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: of the day. But you know, you were here and

597
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: you interviewed me, and I had done fifty five interviews

598
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: in a row, and so I came in and I

599
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: had no my bearer had me eat a way any

600
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: barrier that I even wanted a house. I was exhausted,

601
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: But it's the best place to get me because I

602
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: just don't care anymore. I don't care for the most

603
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: part anyway, For the most part, I when it comes

604
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: to you and me were the same person, were opposite

605
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: sides of the same coin. And it took me like

606
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: a day of just like looking at the YouTube channel

607
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: and going, oh, I think I know Bobby Boes pretty well,

608
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: like and then I realized you were forty two and

609
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: forty four so and now I realize you're a cultural

610
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: influenced mine, And I'm like, there's a lot of similarities here.

611
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: And I'm like, if I just talk to you point

612
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: blank straight, there's something about like the way that you

613
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: create magic when you interview people, in the way I

614
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: try to create magic where I read people, where I'm like,

615
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: something really special could occur. Well, you asked me something

616
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: no one's ever asked me before. And again, as you've

617
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,959
Speaker 1: done three thousand interviews, and I've done many myself. I've

618
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: been interviewed many times. It's rare when something new happens.

619
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: And so I'm sitting here and we're talking about a

620
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: good time. I like h word and most interviews go

621
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: look at this, you did best sellers, look at you,

622
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: you did this show you did and are like, which

623
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: one watch favorite what? And you went what do you

624
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: what do you not have? And I was like, oh,

625
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: that's refreshing, Okay, set up straighter and I want to

626
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: get I remember getting like fired up, not at you,

627
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: at the fact that I'd never get to host the

628
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: A c MRC, amazed because I live with that. I

629
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: was just with a friend of mine who is so

630
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: upset that I'm not going to attach an agenda to them,

631
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: um that they are not asked to perform at the

632
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 1: c M A or a c M and they have

633
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: a ton of number ones and they and this person

634
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: is like, I don't get it, like I've done everything,

635
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: and I'm like bro or sis same And I was

636
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: talking about my interview with you, and I said, you

637
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: know what, I'm I've complained about it internally. We've had

638
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: all the meetings, have all the credentials requirements and um.

639
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: But because of whatever political things happening behind the scenes,

640
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: this person and myself in different worlds. But they're they're

641
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: they're a big star and and so you asked me that,

642
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: and I went, oh, I'd like to share this now.

643
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: Thank you for asking. I've never appreciated because it's like

644
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: because to me, it's like it's the satil page like

645
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: hit it word eight thing you know where it's like

646
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: that's what I think about all the time when I

647
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: think about those things. It's like if you because it's

648
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: like I've talked to like Quincy Joe's and I've talked

649
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: to like so I give you example. My very first

650
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: interview I ever did, like when I was like in journalism,

651
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: like I am in music journalism, this is what I do,

652
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 1: was with Tina Marie. My mother raised me on Tina Marie.

653
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: She's like, in my mind, there's at a certain age

654
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: in my life there was no more beautiful woman on

655
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: planet Earth the Tina Marie. And walk into her hotel

656
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: room to interview her, and she's done everything that I

657
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: would ever think that somebody who you know, makes R

658
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: and B should do. So I'm just like okay, and

659
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: it's like so it was funny. It's like the first

660
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: thing I asked her, like off the record, I'm like,

661
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 1: is there anything that Rick didn't do? For you, Rick James,

662
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: that you wish he would have done at a certain point,

663
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: and she just stops and she looks at me and

664
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: she goes, I don't know, and then like all of

665
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: a sudden, like the interview starts and there's like this

666
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: outpour of all of these things that she did later

667
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: in her career that she wishes that this person who

668
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: is intrinsically related to like the start of her career

669
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: would have done then so that she didn't have to

670
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: do them then. And it was this weird perspective switch,

671
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: and that's like, that's like that's like a two inside

672
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: baseball probably for people watching. Yeah, but no, it's okay,

673
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: I guess it works then. But that's the thing. It's like,

674
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: so I always go back to that, And it's like

675
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: anytime I sit in a room with somebody who I

676
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: know has done like everything, it's like I go back

677
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: to like little points like that, know, the little points

678
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: where it's like it's the thing is either that you

679
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: gloss over that you realize are bigger later in life

680
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: or the things that you literally just don't have that

681
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: are the things that create the compelling point that like

682
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: because for me, like I also try to make everybody

683
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: really human, because like I said, music is human, so

684
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: I try to make everybody human. And I'm like, okay,

685
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: so like and I know you have a giant fan

686
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: base of people who tune in, watch, subscribe, whatever. And

687
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, so like the value here and also

688
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: like for the Tennessee and subscriber based like you know,

689
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: public Occation'm gonna see and dot com one dollar for

690
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: six months. That's the whole thing. Like that's my job,

691
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: Like do it, Marcus, make it happen. And I'm like

692
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: all right, So I know, I'm like, all right, there

693
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: has to be something of like extraordinary value, and typically

694
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: that's the personal. So I'm like, okay, well I need

695
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: to find something personal about somebody. I'm like, well that

696
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: that might yield something. And then when you said what

697
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: you said, I was like, well, okay, all right, that's that.

698
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: That's the thing. I feel good about it because I

699
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 1: have no problem going anywhere personal and it's been asked.

700
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: I have offered it, it's been asked. But yes that

701
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: and I was like, I felt like it'side my ribs.

702
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: I got a little warm, and I was like all right, no,

703
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: I've never been asked this, I'm pretty passionate. I have

704
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: a reason to talk about it because I didn't just

705
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: bring it up, no, of course, like I and that's

706
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: that was the that's the fun of it. Like that's

707
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: the fun of the interview process and being a journalist

708
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: when like, like I've done like three thousands of these

709
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: things now. So it's like when you get to that

710
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: point where you know and if you make a push

711
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: it's gonna hit something like you don't really you can't

712
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: ever go into an interview knowing what you're going to hit,

713
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: Like you can have a list of questions in the

714
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: back of your head, like I want to talk about

715
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: this and this and that and that, like I'm sneaking

716
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,479
Speaker 1: the grass and I want to talk about the show

717
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: and country music. And it's like, okay, wait, so if

718
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: I ask about this, I feel I folded. I'm like, okay,

719
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: we can push here. Maybe something will come out of this.

720
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, and there's something does and I'm like, oh,

721
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: all right, here we go. You know, do you ever

722
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: have we experienced this pretty recently where someone's like, hey,

723
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: I would like to do a little pee like the

724
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: PR team riches, I would love to interview them, but

725
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, they don't want to talk about this, and

726
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: you're like, no, but if they don't talk about that,

727
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: then I can't talk with them because pits. So I

728
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 1: get that all the time actually because this country music,

729
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: so you know, And the thing with me is that

730
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: that's why I do research, because I could do an

731
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: entire interview with somebody and not mentioned the thing, but

732
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: I could talk about a whole bunch of other stuff

733
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: that's fascinating about somebody and still have it have value

734
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: even without that obvious big thing that we're not supposed

735
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: to discuss, like you know, the hidden thing. It's like,

736
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: especially if it's an artist who has like like done

737
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: something over a period of time, because typically it's like

738
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 1: legacy artists, they have those like well, don't ask about

739
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: that thing or this thing. But it's like, well, they

740
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: also did like a hundred other things. And I also understand,

741
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: like in any space that I work in, whether it's

742
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: been hip hop or ETM or whatever, like I understand

743
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 1: culturally what's going on in the space, and I'm like, okay,

744
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: so let's me fine, Like the value for this person

745
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: to this space. It's like that's why, like interviewing like

746
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties country stars right now. That's one of

747
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: that's one of the coolest parts for me about like

748
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: cm Fest, for instance, when they're like, hey, you get

749
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: to talk the ship and doa and Sarah Evans today,

750
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yo, all right, like let's go, and

751
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 1: they're like really like they're they're played first in a second,

752
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: and but I'm like no, no, no, no no. I'm like,

753
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: if you ask any artist who wants to get to

754
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: where Sarah Evans is about their interest in Sarah Evans,

755
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: they want to know, like they really need like that answer.

756
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: So like, maybe I'm not doing this interview for like

757
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: ten trillion people to be able to do it for

758
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: like five female artists who are aspiring to get to Nashville.

759
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: But if that yields a generational pop country crossover superstar

760
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: because they heard Sarah Evans say I use Mariah Carey

761
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: for vocal cues, then we we've done. We've achieved a

762
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: bigger thing, and that's stuff that matters, you know, like

763
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: on some level, like this can't all just be like

764
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, like gossiping through away journalism, Like not that

765
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,240
Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with that, because it's there's a certain

766
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: market for that too. But on some level, like you

767
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: have to do something that has some kind of now

768
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: you somewhere, you'll still take and do the interview. If

769
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: they're like, we don't wanna talk about this, You'll still

770
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: do it and just find another way. Oh yeah, you're

771
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 1: a better person. I don't like, I'm out and I

772
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,959
Speaker 1: don't even have to ask about it, man, Like it's

773
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: because a lot of this for me is like understand,

774
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: like I'll laugh at because I'm like, I like watch

775
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: Crooked Chase a lot as a kid. They're coming in

776
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: and a few weeks amazing, Like you know, so I

777
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: would watch these shows, and for me, when I get

778
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: the opportunities, it's the one thing that like, and you're

779
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: getting me back now because I'm saying that I've ever

780
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: said before. It's the one thing for me that always

781
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: gets me is like I have the moment that I

782
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: saw on TV happen in my life. That's always cool.

783
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: So it's like if it's like insert artists here, they

784
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about this, that and that, but

785
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: did I see them get interviewed in two thousand and

786
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: four on CMT, Yeah, Okay, Well, I want to interview

787
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: in two thousand and twenty two, because heck, like I

788
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: watched that interview back then, and I had questions I

789
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: would have to ask, and I obviously would have never

790
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: imagined that a time would have come in my life

791
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: for that would have been an opportunity thing to do.

792
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: Most viral interview you've ever done, Oh god, um, yeah,

793
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: I did one with Walker Hayes at um so funny

794
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: they were walking. Everybody asked Walker the same set of

795
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: questions like Applebee's TikTok dancing, and nobody had asked him

796
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: what he thought about having to get to a point

797
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: in his career where learning how to use social media

798
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: was the most important thing. Like it blew my mind.

799
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's the obvious question. Like he's been here

800
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 1: for seventeen years. When you get to a point where

801
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: you have to pick up a telephone, you can't like

802
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: go into a writer's room, Like the thing that defines

803
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: your career is I'm gonna pick up this telephone and

804
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this dance and it's gonna fit the

805
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: song and it's gonna amplify my career. Nobody asked him

806
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: that question, So I asked him a question at a

807
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: c M S and it did big numbers. And I

808
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: was very happy to see that because that's the thing

809
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about, because it's like on some level

810
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: two for me, as like a writer and creator in

811
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: the digital era, you have to be able to like

812
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: look at the trends and say, okay, so like I

813
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 1: can't do like not to throw anybody under a bus,

814
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: But I can't do like seven thirty PM TV journalism.

815
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: I cannot. That is not a thing that I am

816
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: equipped to do. The many things I can do, that

817
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: is not one of them. So I'm like my take

818
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: on it is I'll do it if you force me,

819
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna try to find like the blind spot

820
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: in that whole space and make that the push of

821
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: my work. Like if you want me to do it,

822
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: I'll do it, but I'm gonna do it this way.

823
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: And every so often I hit a I, I hit

824
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: ALEG and it's it's a good look. I was talking

825
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: to Kathy like Gifford a couple of days ago. She

826
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: was talking about interview Martin Short and she was asking

827
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: about his wife and she was like, A, you guys

828
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: are such a great couple. Show ended. Uh, his wife

829
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,959
Speaker 1: had died a year ago of cancer, but she didn't

830
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: know that. She was asking him, are your wife? How

831
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 1: is she? But he didn't want embarrass her on TV,

832
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: so he waited till the show was over, and he

833
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: was like, hey, listen, I know you didn't know, but

834
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: my wife died a year ago of cancer. And she

835
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: was like, that's the biggest, like the dumbest question I

836
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: ever asked. And she's like, I'm prepared, and I guess

837
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: I just she just knew them and so she didn't

838
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: look Yeah, you're you ever getting one of those situations.

839
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: Oh god, this is so funny story. I wasn't c

840
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: m A and Lingy Wilson is an artist I have

841
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: like written a lot about as she's had her moment

842
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: so earlier that day, like the big announcement had come

843
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: out about her and Yellowstone and I'm doing this interview

844
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: and this is this has proofd the research that I do.

845
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: I had like a whole set of questions I wanted

846
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: to ask lady in my head and her prs looking

847
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: at me and going like she's like off camera like

848
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: looking at me, like you're not asking I need you

849
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: to ask the question. About Marcus, like and I'm asking

850
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: about every other thing under the sun and Jesus talking

851
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: and it's glib. It's a good conversation. And then we

852
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: get done and she goes, Marcus, I need thirty more

853
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: seconds of camera, and I'm like why, and she's like

854
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: yellow Stone, and so I like pulled up my phoot

855
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: I said, yell, oh crap, okay, sorry. Like it happened

856
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: in the period of times from like the period that

857
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: like I had stopped doing my research to like the

858
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: moment I had her own camera, this thing had been announced,

859
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: and that one tiny window about her, the biggest thing

860
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: about her in a long time, it happened, and I

861
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: was just like, so we get back on camera. It

862
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: was fine, and it's like it was edited just fine.

863
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: But for me, it's like those those are the moments

864
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: that happened where I'm like because it's like you you

865
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: work so hard, do you think you got it? And

866
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: then it's like a little, little tiny things. But I

867
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: think that that's the thing that happens to a lot

868
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: of artists that I interview, because I end up like,

869
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: because okay, so red carpets of debate in my existence, Uh,

870
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: there's no worse place to do an interview than in

871
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: three minutes on the red carpet. But we do them

872
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 1: all the time because it's a whole part of the

873
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: word show experience. So you find these like older acts

874
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: who get asked like the same six questions, like you know,

875
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: it's like so like Sarah Evans and us. Sarah's a

876
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: perfect example, Like she gets asked about SuDS and bucket

877
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: like a hundred million times, and she has like the

878
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: same ninety seconds dip it. So it's like I stopped

879
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: her and I asked her about like her like vocal quality,

880
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: and she looked at before a second like I had

881
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: invented fire. She was like, oh yeah, yeah, And then

882
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 1: I had another question. It was like not about soudn't

883
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 1: or any of her her like spade of hits that

884
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: people typically ask her about, and she gives the same

885
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: ninety second questions, and so we get to the end

886
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: of it and ninety second answer, and then at the

887
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: end of it, I asked about like you know, like yeah,

888
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I don't think these songs and

889
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: how do you feel about like, you know, people like

890
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: having these moments when you hear your music Now twenty

891
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: years later and then you get done. She's like, I

892
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: appreciate that interview, Like, well, yeah, you know, it's the

893
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: least you can do, like because a lot of times

894
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: you find with those older artists, like people will do

895
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: that kind of like short sighted research and no miss

896
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: giant things, which is not ask questions that are reflective

897
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 1: of somebody's like breath of scope of work. Next week,

898
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: I was We've had some issues here at home, so

899
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: I'm not being able to do that. But I was

900
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: going to l A to do a g T, not

901
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: to perform, but to do some Snake in the Grasp

902
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: promo and be part of the show. And I was

903
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: looking forward to seeing the girl che which I was

904
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: introduced to a couple of years ago. They had sang

905
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 1: the national anthem at an event and I was like, wow,

906
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,399
Speaker 1: there's pretty good. So Mike and I started playing them

907
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: on my Women and Country Music show, and so we've

908
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: played them pretty consistently for an inconsistent show where I

909
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 1: can't play people two weeks in a row really for

910
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: the most part, and so we started playing Chappel hard

911
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: and loading them up and people would ask questions, but

912
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: we played that song, did we played the Joliant song

913
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: though yeah fo yeah, way way before it's a hit. Yeah,

914
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: so weever in that like a hit. So they you know,

915
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: they go on a g T and they get the

916
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: gold ticket and so I was looking like, look at

917
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: you guys that this is awesome. Um, you talk to

918
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: them pretty recently. Yeah, where are they now? What what

919
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: mental space are they in? So it's funny with them,

920
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: like to give you, to give you a scope of

921
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: like my time with them. When I started at CMT

922
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: last year, they were next Woe in the country. Um.

923
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: I saw them playing Annapolis, Maryland, and I introduced them

924
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: on stage. So like I and and they're at a

925
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: place where they are over prepared for success. Um. I

926
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: put them in the same group that I put Madeline Edwards,

927
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 1: Minko Marks and artists who are like vastly Wendy Moton too,

928
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: who are vastly over prepared for the moment, Lane Wilson

929
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: and there as well, like people who like who always

930
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: show up as if their moment is about to occur,

931
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: like that that's been Chapel Hearts grind Um. They're they

932
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 1: are charismatic. They understand how to do three part harmonies

933
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: better than probably anybody else like in in the space

934
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: like they are that good. Uh, they have a stage

935
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: performance that is great because again, when you're at that

936
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 1: point of doing this for as long as they have

937
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 1: been doing it and doing it in the spaces that

938
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: they've had the opportunity to do it, and like they

939
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: tore parts of the country that are like died in

940
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: wool like country music spaces, and that's what they know.

941
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: It's not like they like came from some other genre

942
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: or they're like country artists that are you know, like

943
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 1: a lot of black country artists get pigeonholed into being

944
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: on you know, neo soul or R and B showcases

945
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 1: and you know they're like playing their guitar and trying

946
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: to fit. But no, Chapel Heart plays like country places

947
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: like they're like Louisiana, Arkansas, Alabama, like that's Oklahoma, Texas.

948
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: Like they're they're in it, and so they're just like ready,

949
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: they're overright, like they're having fun. Like I called them

950
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: the day after it happened. I call it like their

951
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: manager and got them on the phone and I'm like

952
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: how is it And they're like great, oh my god,

953
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: Like we did it. And finally it's happening, and I'm

954
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,479
Speaker 1: like yeah, and it's it's a cool thing. It's because

955
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 1: it's like the same thing with Windy mouton on the voice,

956
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: Like after Windy had her mom went on the voice,

957
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: I would call her up and be like, how are

958
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: you and she's like, yeah, it's finally happening, Oh my god.

959
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: And it's it's a cool thing to see when people

960
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: who are overprepared for success are able to just execute

961
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,439
Speaker 1: at the highest level and slay it out of the gate.

962
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see what happens after the show.

963
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: And I think I have an interesting perspective because one

964
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: I worked on American Idol for four years and I

965
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: would see these kids or young adults wind and you

966
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: only got a brief window to capitalize on that because

967
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: then nobody cares again, right, so you have it. So

968
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: I was able to watch it work there. But then

969
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: I also won Dancing with the Stars, where I had

970
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: a brief window in that world of the l a

971
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: TV world to capitalized because soon nobody cared again. And

972
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: so my advice as always to folks who go on

973
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: a show like this is you finished the show, like

974
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 1: you're not going to come away out of this and

975
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: be a big star. Well, you gotta grab on and

976
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: hold on and grind is that next step up. Don't

977
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: try to jump three steps because you can get that

978
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: next up right now. You get it's handed to you.

979
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: The best play that they made was making the direct

980
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 1: offered to the Opery as soon as they got the

981
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: golden ticket, like brilliant, and they got it. And I'm

982
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: going to be covering that when Septembar e teen they

983
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: make their like opre debut, which again they had, they

984
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: had that window. They said, let's pick our one or

985
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 1: two things that we can and they hit it. That

986
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: that was a home run moved by them to go,

987
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: we're not gonna go. We want to headline to c M.

988
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: As they went, we want to play the Opery. That

989
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: is an elevation and we think we can get that

990
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: right now. And Dan Rodgers is not unaware and Jordan

991
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: Pettitt they're not unaware, and they know what the deal

992
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: is and you know, like I I I am. It's

993
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,439
Speaker 1: it's one thing with like reparational equity in Nashville right now,

994
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: like where people are showing up not because oh God,

995
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: George Floyd whatever, protests black lives matter, like you know,

996
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 1: like you know, all of all of those like few

997
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: requisite things were two years past that now now it's

998
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: just the thing where like if you put certain acts

999
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: on stage, especially black female acts, for the most part,

1000
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: these are people who show up and blow away your

1001
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 1: stage in a way that like is within the established conversation,

1002
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: is not like you know, like brilliant to like at

1003
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: the operay, like within the conversation, but also expanding it

1004
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: in a way that isn't troubling or difficult to the

1005
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: established audio. Always say like you can go to the

1006
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,439
Speaker 1: opery that is country music. Like those people like people

1007
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: to go to the operate and sit there like that's

1008
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: that's country. And if they're like standing ovation, you're okay.

1009
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: You don't get that free, absolutely not. I don't care

1010
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 1: what you look like, you don't get that for free.

1011
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you know where you talk about Nashville,

1012
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: and I have found that just giving people chances, and

1013
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,479
Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of black artists. They've been given

1014
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: chances in the last two or three years, more so

1015
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: than I've ever seen. And it's just about exposure, right

1016
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: for me, because I'm being exposed now, I'm going and honestly,

1017
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: I don't put anybody on my show just because they're

1018
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: a black artist. Sometimes I get in trouble for that,

1019
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: but I'm like, why would this is? You can tell

1020
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: me that I'm completely wrong here. I never want to

1021
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 1: take someone I don't care man woman. Because this was

1022
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: happening with the female artist as well. They're like, just

1023
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: put all artists on. I was like, but if I

1024
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: put a female artist on, that doesn't come on and crush,

1025
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: everybody's gonna go. That's why we don't put female artists on.

1026
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: And so I would get hammered, of course. And listen,

1027
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: I was touring, I was taking out female artist. I

1028
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: was doing whole concerts at a send. But I just

1029
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: couldn't allow myself to highlight someone that I felt like

1030
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: me highlighted them would hurt the cause more than a

1031
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: quick highlights would help. To me, the coolest thing right

1032
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: now is John Party taking Laney Wilson and Haley Winters

1033
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: out on the roade with him, and you already know,

1034
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: like you put them on a stage, it's like it's

1035
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 1: it's it's a done deal. It's a rap, like they're

1036
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: gonna it's Tierra. Yeah, right, exactly I mean that that

1037
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 1: to me is I watched Tierra. I don't I didn't

1038
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: know she had sent a video in a couple of

1039
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: years prior that I thought was so good. We played

1040
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 1: it on the show, but I didn't even connect him right,

1041
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: And I'm talking to her, She's like and she's so country.

1042
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: It's you remember when I sent that video in And

1043
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm no what you're talking about. And

1044
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 1: so we played it and I was like wow, and

1045
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: just to watch her and I and she opened some

1046
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: shows for me here and I'm taking her to the

1047
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 1: Today Show in a couple of weeks. But it's not

1048
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: it's not because she's a black artist. No, she's great

1049
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: because she's great. But I do appreciate the fact that

1050
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 1: people are working to expose more anything that doesn't allow

1051
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: itself to be exposed naturally and generously, right, Like I mean,

1052
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: because it's for me. It's like again, it gets back

1053
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,760
Speaker 1: to that point for me with having the best music

1054
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 1: into space, Like that's my job at the beginning, middle

1055
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: and end on the Nashville Country Reporter, So I report

1056
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: about the best music in space. So like, yeah, you know,

1057
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 1: it's like I all I tell young, especially because young

1058
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 1: Black artists always talk to me and say, well I

1059
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: think I'm ready, and I'm like, okay, well I'll send

1060
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 1: them like Old King for instance, Like I said, somebody,

1061
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: oh King recently and I said, okay, that's the standard.

1062
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: Where are you towards that? And I'm like, frankly, like, frankly,

1063
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: compare what you're doing on every scope to what she's doing,

1064
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: not because she's like because it's great, Like that's the

1065
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: standard for me right now for the thing that you're

1066
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: trying to do. And it's like, oh, so you think

1067
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: I could get there? And I'm like, well, I wouldn't

1068
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: send it to you if I didn't think you could

1069
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: get there, Like if I didn't think that that was

1070
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: a navigable jump for your artistic creativity and your presentation.

1071
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: And you're like, you know, Candor and everything, like you

1072
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: know you can that that's the thing you can you

1073
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,720
Speaker 1: can reach. So for me, this that's the next layer

1074
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: of this conversation is once you get into space, where

1075
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: is your growth in that space? And how are you

1076
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: getting resources? Like everyone else is getting to allow yourself

1077
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: to grow, right, And but the resources are there. That's

1078
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: the thing if you if you show up like if

1079
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: you show up like Madeline Edwards showed up in two

1080
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: thousand and twenty two, like your yeah, every all the

1081
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: all the resources will be in your hands, so ultimately

1082
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,479
Speaker 1: that it is up to you to to make those

1083
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: leaps because the resources are there, Like it's like, it's there.

1084
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: I always tell people this. I say, there are no

1085
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: closed wars in this city anymore. There may be closed

1086
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,800
Speaker 1: minds in those rooms, but there are no closed doors.

1087
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that has changed since the first

1088
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 1: time I came here in February one in a musical

1089
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: like capacity, you know, I wrote The Giants CMT Charlie Pride.

1090
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: And to see that change has been heartening. And to me,

1091
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: it's like when you deal with closed minds, that's just

1092
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: the level of like people that are stodgy about talent anyway.

1093
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: So there, so that's like, that's the next thing. But

1094
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 1: there's no closed doors. There's people were closed minds behind

1095
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: those doors, but the doors are certainly open. Now. What'd

1096
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: you write today? Anything good? Oh? Yeah? So? Um, what's

1097
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: the what's the guy's name who just had a hundred

1098
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: number one thing was passed? He played? I can't think

1099
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: any guy's name, but um, guitar was in A and

1100
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: R two. Yeah, but I just wrote I wrote about him.

1101
00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: I what else did I write about that was good? Um,

1102
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: A little big town. I sat down with them, Yeah,

1103
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 1: for Mr. Sun, which is a great which is a

1104
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: great record that's coming out. I interviewed them. I also

1105
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: I'm working on something about actual Me Pride record on Lindaville,

1106
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: which I'm sure you've heard it. I don't listen anything

1107
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: before it comes out. I'm not you. No one depends

1108
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: on me for what you They don't. They don't. They

1109
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: they depend on you for pre and priming them for

1110
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: what they're about to get into. People depend on me

1111
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: for reaction. Yeah, No, it's it's I I explained that

1112
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: to somebody recently. It's funny you bring that up, like,

1113
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: because somebody was like trying to like figure out why

1114
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: it looked like we had good chemistry, and I'm like, well,

1115
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: we're like freaking frack. It's like I opened the door,

1116
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: you walk through it, and Bobby's there. That's the way

1117
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: it should work. Like if I opened the door and

1118
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: you walk through, then Bobby's there. And if I opened

1119
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 1: the door and you walk through and Bobby's there and

1120
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: Bobby is only going to be there because I said

1121
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: it was good and that's the way you should work.

1122
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,439
Speaker 1: And they're like, wow, that makes sense, and I'm like, yeah,

1123
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: that's kind of what we do. Like that's that to

1124
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: me is hopefully where this heads in this town. Like

1125
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: that's one of my my great hopes next steps from

1126
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: my career at least. Well, I appreciate what you do.

1127
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,919
Speaker 1: You know, we we generally don't have a lot of

1128
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: journalists writers, I know, but I thank you. I think

1129
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: going back to when I mentioned agenda, I am in

1130
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: line with your agenda. Thank you. And I can appreciate

1131
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: how hard it is because I don't do it the

1132
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: same way you do it, and I don't take at

1133
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: times the risks that you take, nor do you take mine.

1134
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: But I can respect yours because I know what it's

1135
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: like to have to take them. But I just think

1136
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: what you do is needed here. I like you as

1137
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: a person, and all that kind of worked down the

1138
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: ven diagram of right in the middle of boom, let's

1139
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: have him on. So I just love I told Mike,

1140
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: I was like, well, let's get Marcus on, Like that

1141
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: does awesome. Seriously, I sincerely appreciate it like, um, like,

1142
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: are one of the reasons why I'm here. That's not true. No,

1143
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: it is, It's not true. There are they are, like

1144
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: there are like five people in this house right now. Yes,

1145
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: you're the reason. I'm the reason you're in and so like. No,

1146
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: because as an outside observer, I watched you take flak

1147
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: and I feel like you take flak like in a

1148
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:24,919
Speaker 1: way that is unnecessary. And it's only because there's very

1149
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: few people that are willing to leap as much as

1150
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: you're willing to leap, because that's well, at the at

1151
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's very conservative place and

1152
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 1: maintaining a status quo. There's a certain economic bottom line

1153
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: that's you know, benefited by people maintaining status quo, and

1154
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: to take leaps in the midst of that is incredibly difficult,

1155
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: but necessary if we're going to expand the genre and

1156
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: the culture of country music as we have. So I'm like,

1157
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:53,959
Speaker 1: I know what I want to do a country music

1158
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: This is me in two thousand and twenty, in the

1159
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 1: middle of the pandemic, like, you know, trying to figure

1160
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: out like my next move as a journalist and country

1161
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: was it, Like, you know, if Bobby could survive ish

1162
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: in Nashville. Then I'm like, I could possibly be okay,

1163
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: like thinking the way that they can moving the way

1164
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 1: I want to move. So it's it's it's really hardening

1165
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 1: to hear you say that because it makes me feel

1166
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: like I'm doing something halfway right, last saying, well, a

1167
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: lot of respect from me and from this entire room,

1168
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 1: and you guys follow if anything, just for the fashion influence,

1169
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: Marcus k out, just look at the pit. I don't

1170
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: even know how you have because I bet you that

1171
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: I've given you a clothing budget at all, not at all.

1172
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: So all like this is this is a mix of

1173
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: like getting like a pandemic check and not and not

1174
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: spending it smartly. Um, this is a mix of like

1175
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: doing a lot of TV writing during the pandemic and

1176
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 1: doing a lot of like work that required me to

1177
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: like just sit around and steer it walls. Like I mean,

1178
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: I've done stuff any networks and CMT, VIACOM, DC government whatever.

1179
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: So like I wore a lot of hats and again,

1180
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: like at the beginning of the pandemic, I thought we

1181
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: would never go outside again, so I just started stockpiling

1182
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: clothes because on Instagram and on the internet, like people

1183
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: were just like selling things that like ridiculous discounts. So

1184
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: like the shirts from this place called Halls and Curtis,

1185
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: and they had this deals that were like four shirts

1186
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: for a hundred and fifty dollars. And I love Elvis,

1187
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: and I couldn't find high collar Elvis shirts anywhere on

1188
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: the internet. And then I found this one place in

1189
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: Great Britain. It had high color Elvis shirts and I'm like,

1190
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: they have an amazing deal. Wow, I'm gonna buy. And

1191
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: then they said and they sat in my closet for

1192
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: a year. And then once we started getting out into

1193
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: the world, and I'm like, wait, like going out into

1194
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: the world is not gonna be like a celebration. We're

1195
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: just gonna have to go out every day like we

1196
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: used to. And I'm looking at my closet like this

1197
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: is all I really have at this point, Like I

1198
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: knew that, like when COVID happened, I'm like, this is

1199
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: the end of the world, this is the end of times.

1200
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: This is a terrible end of you know, like or

1201
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: like capitalistic like you know, nightmare or whatever scenario we're in. No, No,

1202
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: we're just gonna kind of go back to things, and

1203
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: I'm like this whole closet, So I gotta, I gotta,

1204
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: I have to at were you not the thing before

1205
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: a pandemic? Like I was just no, not really like

1206
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: I was. Country music made it all made sense. Um,

1207
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: all the pieces were there, like anybody who knew me,

1208
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: Like all of the pieces that kind of came together

1209
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: in this space, we're all there. They just didn't have

1210
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: any commonality, Like I can't wear collared shirts in d

1211
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 1: M spaces, not when I'm like at you know, like

1212
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: underground raves in Washington, d C. At three o'clock in

1213
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: the morning, Like wearing this shirt, I'm going to ruin

1214
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 1: this shirt. So wearing a T shirt is definitely ideal,

1215
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: Like wearing like bootcut jeans in the middle of the

1216
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: North Like doing whatever I'm doing in hip hop and

1217
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: R and B, I'm going to get left out of

1218
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: the room. Like that's just gonna happen. So like you know,

1219
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: like eventually coming in the country, Like it just kind

1220
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: of like people don't understand, like this is not a

1221
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 1: professional move or not some kind of like socio political

1222
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: thing that I'm trying to do because it's the wave

1223
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: and so cool whatever whatever, it's like, no, this is

1224
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: actually just weirdly how I view the world works for

1225
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: me best in this space, Like anybody who knows me

1226
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: will tell you my my ideal form of life exists

1227
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: between there's some of the most golden eras in global history.

1228
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 1: The music sounds great, the fashion is amazing, the culture

1229
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: is incredible. Like there's freedom and social movement and the

1230
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: ability to be like, you know, a free thinker and

1231
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,439
Speaker 1: a do thing. Things differently existed then and I lived there,

1232
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: always have, always will. So like when country allows you

1233
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: to do this every day and nobody blinks an eye,

1234
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: why what is I you know, like would? And then

1235
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: it's like it falls into the thing where I can

1236
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: do it for every day for the rest of my life,

1237
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: Like okay, you don't. You don't have to ask me twice,

1238
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, like you know, well following Marcus, thank you,

1239
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 1: Kay Dowling. It's amazing. It's every day I'm like, well,

1240
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: I gotta put a comment on that it looks great.

1241
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: And it's one after the other. It's all comments and

1242
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: me going, you look wonderful, looking good, thank you sincerely,

1243
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 1: Like have you watched the rehearsal yet? On HBO? Max yes,

1244
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: yes you have Wait wait you think about it. It's good,

1245
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: isn't it. It's great? I love it, like I um.

1246
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: I started watching it last week. I mean I watched.

1247
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 1: When I watched the first episode, I was jealous of

1248
01:04:55,480 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: what nath Than had done because I went, I mean,

1249
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: you're five layers deeper than I've ever been. And it's

1250
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 1: one of those where it's just an appreciation of and

1251
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: it's for those that don't know what it is. It's

1252
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: called the Mike. You watch the rehearsal yet I haven't

1253
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: started yet. Now. I thought it was honestly thought it

1254
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 1: was a scripted show at first. Nathan Nathan for you guys,

1255
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: on the scripted show, it ain't. He gets with people

1256
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: who about to make big life decisions and he rehearses

1257
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: it with them, and it's so it's so much deep.

1258
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: It's it's crazy. As a as a person who like

1259
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: you know, like mixes psychology with everything I do. Like,

1260
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, this is this is beautiful. I

1261
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: was sitting next to my wife and I was like,

1262
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. Did that does amaze? She was

1263
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: like shut up. I was like all right, sorry, sorry.

1264
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 1: She goes just do just watch this shows that it's

1265
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: that it's that fact when people who get around us,

1266
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: who don't like approach this at the layer that we

1267
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: have to approach it at. Like I always told people that, like, yeah,

1268
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 1: you look at things milecularly, but like I live with

1269
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: the molecule. So it's like there's a layer that you

1270
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: just you could never imagine because this that exists. I

1271
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:02,479
Speaker 1: think she also wanted to shut up and stop yelling.

1272
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: I think I have been doing that on the lower

1273
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: volume level two. It's probably been Okay, you're probably not

1274
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: You're probably not wrong. Marcus, good to see it. Buckets

1275
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: of admiration, A hand them all to you now, and

1276
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 1: same to you following Marcus followers work subscribe to the

1277
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 1: Tennessee and yeah, all the things that he's sending me

1278
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: three dollars okay, and also telling me now you're not

1279
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: handing me the money. I'm kidding. Yeah, I'll tell you.

1280
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: I have. I have a podcast coming with the paper.

1281
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 1: It's called The Tradition Myself from lebron Hill. He's an

1282
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: award winning opinion writer. Is the feed up yet to

1283
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: subscribe to or were announce? It is a It is

1284
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: a pre announcement it is forthcoming. We are six episodes in.

1285
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: There's an episode with low Cast, there's an episode with

1286
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: Wendy Moten, there's one with Walker Hayes, Bluncle Brown, Lisla

1287
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 1: Fram It's awesome, It's gonna be it's good, It's it's

1288
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 1: gonna be a fun time. I have an episode where

1289
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 1: I talked about my love with Teddy Pendergrass and how

1290
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: he could have been a country star. Like it's it's

1291
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: it's it's it's really been. Uh when is that happening?

1292
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: It should be up within the month, all right, Yeah,

1293
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 1: so like why the time this is out, like it'll

1294
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: you'll you'll come back to it and it will be out.

1295
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: So well, if you ever am like we'd like to

1296
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 1: really scrape. I volunteered. I don't do a lot of

1297
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,919
Speaker 1: podcasts are on my own, but I'd be happy to come.

1298
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: Thank you if you ever, if you find a different reason,

1299
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: I'm a thousand percent having you on that just goes

1300
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: outside there he is Marcu's good to see you, buddy.

1301
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 1: Same here