Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big
Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
Speaker 1: mean for our psychology.
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
Speaker 2: the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
Speaker 2: the world, it is so great to have you here.
Speaker 2: Back for another episode as we, of course break down
Speaker 2: the psychology of our twenties. A subject I'd like to
Speaker 2: talk about a lot is agency and the fact that
Speaker 2: I think in about eighty percent of instances in our lives,
Speaker 2: we get to control our reality and what we're experiencing.
Speaker 2: I think so much about how we operate and how
Speaker 2: we function our daily lives is actually within our power.
Speaker 2: But a lot of us choose to live quite passively,
Speaker 2: and we let this thing happened to us, rather than
Speaker 2: actively choosing who we are, our outlook, our experiences, our behaviors,
Speaker 2: who we spend time with. We say it all the
Speaker 2: time on the podcast, but I think sometimes the easiest
Speaker 2: and most convenient choice is not always the best for you,
Speaker 2: And this is especially important to recognize in our twenties,
Speaker 2: when we are at such a formative juncture and in
Speaker 2: the midst of really deciding what we want long term,
Speaker 2: what we want with our careers, with our health, with
Speaker 2: our finances. I don't think that we can actually afford
Speaker 2: to be passive. It doesn't mean that we have to
Speaker 2: be constantly kind of finding for the next big thing
Speaker 2: and overworking ourselves. We don't always have to be focused
Speaker 2: on achievement. But I think more so that we need
Speaker 2: some kind of structure to how we think about our future,
Speaker 2: but also about our present and what kind of life
Speaker 2: we are creating for ourselves. And I thought who better
Speaker 2: to bring on for this episode than the wonderful hosts
Speaker 2: of Girls with Goals to have kind of a discussion
Speaker 2: and informative conversation on how not to be passive when
Speaker 2: it comes to creating a happy and fulfilling life. Sir
Speaker 2: Carolyn and Catherine, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Hi, thank you so much for having us. I'm Caroline,
Speaker 3: I mean Catherine. We are where twin sisters. We're based
Speaker 3: in Boston in the US, and we host the show
Speaker 3: Girls with Goals. We talk so much on our show
Speaker 3: about health and wellness, but mostly in the sense of
Speaker 3: how it fits into our lifestyles and ultimately building your
Speaker 3: own most confident life. However that's going to look. And
Speaker 3: you know, every topic we dive into is something that
Speaker 3: we're actively navigating at the same time. And I think
Speaker 3: figuring out how to have that right balance of control
Speaker 3: over your lives while at the same time being kind
Speaker 3: of trusting in the path and not trying to get
Speaker 3: too overwhelmed with the control is something that we're always
Speaker 3: working to figure out. So I think hopefully we'll be
Speaker 3: able to come and bring some good advice on how
Speaker 3: to stop being passive in your life and take more
Speaker 3: control without it being too overwhelming of a feat today
Speaker 3: On Yeah, I love the word control in a good
Speaker 3: way is what we're what we're getting at here controls
Speaker 3: and you're in the power of your life, which I
Speaker 3: think is really important when we're talking about whether or
Speaker 3: not you're living passively. So we love you know, like
Speaker 3: Caron said, this is a time that we're navigating actively
Speaker 3: ourselves and that's what we talk about. So you know,
Speaker 3: we're working on trying not to be passive or being
Speaker 3: aware of that and knowing how to be confident within that,
Speaker 3: and you know, actively work towards moving away from passive
Speaker 3: life and taking more control and feeling empowered in our
Speaker 3: lives is what we talk about all the time. So
Speaker 3: this is a really great episode. Thank you so much
Speaker 3: for having.
Speaker 2: Us absolutely well. I feel like that's something I really
Speaker 2: admire about you guys. Firstly, you're in your twenties, which
Speaker 2: I think is like obviously the psychology of your twenties, Like,
Speaker 2: I like talking to people who also kind of get it.
Speaker 2: But I really admire how you're both like quite intentional
Speaker 2: in how you live, right. You really like prioritize the
Speaker 2: good parts of life as much as you can, even
Speaker 2: when it's difficult. You guys are full time students, you're
Speaker 2: running your own businesses. When it comes to that, what
Speaker 2: do you think it means to be intentional, especially when
Speaker 2: we have like so many other things on our plate
Speaker 2: that can make it really difficult to focus on bringing Like,
Speaker 2: I feel like being intentional sometimes gets compared to putting
Speaker 2: in more effort, right and having to give more energy
Speaker 2: when you don't actually have it. But what does it
Speaker 2: mean for you guys?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely not just straight up putting in more energy.
Speaker 3: And I think we've all been there where that is
Speaker 3: our default because it's the simplest, seemingly simplest solution before
Speaker 3: you actually you know, try out some solutions. It's kind
Speaker 3: of our default, our go to just if things aren't
Speaker 3: working out or they're not working out as you want them,
Speaker 3: to just throw more effort in, like do more things
Speaker 3: work harder? Not the answer all the time, because that
Speaker 3: almost pushes you further into that, you know, passiveness. Anytime
Speaker 3: I've felt like I'm in a state of passive myths passiveness,
Speaker 3: First of all, I don't realize it until like a
Speaker 3: month or two or even more down the line, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, I've been living on autopilot,
Speaker 3: Like I couldn't even tell you what happened these past
Speaker 3: four months. But having the you know, ability to acknowledge
Speaker 3: that and pull yourselves pull yourself out of that is
Speaker 3: a really intentional thing. And it's not to say that
Speaker 3: you're never going to have times of feeling passive or
Speaker 3: you know that you have to throw yourself an autopilot,
Speaker 3: but when you do notice it, being able to, you know,
Speaker 3: pull yourself out of it. And sometimes that means not
Speaker 3: throwing more more gas on the fire, but taking a
Speaker 3: step back and going back to those foundations and so
Speaker 3: knowing that there are a bunch of different options and
Speaker 3: that maybe not putting all your effort in and losing
Speaker 3: all of your steam and absolutely burning out is the
Speaker 3: best answer. Sometimes it's taking a step back and going
Speaker 3: back to your you know, foundations, the things that you
Speaker 3: absolutely have to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. I read this article actually like
Speaker 2: today by The Atlantic called like the Status of being busy,
Speaker 2: which is that like in this day and age, being
Speaker 2: busy is seen as like as being successful, as being popular,
Speaker 2: as being like a go getter, when actually busyness really
Speaker 2: just demonstrates yes, obviously like a period of just having
Speaker 2: a lot odd and chaos, but actually it represents an
Speaker 2: inability to set personal boundaries in a way because you
Speaker 2: don't and you haven't been intentional and putting time aside. Right.
Speaker 2: I think you made a really good point. Like we
Speaker 2: talk about not being passive, not being passive doesn't mean
Speaker 2: being active, right, Like you would think that that's the opposite, right, Okay,
Speaker 2: if I don't want to be passive, I better be
Speaker 2: doing things all the time. But it's actually being intentional,
Speaker 2: it's actually being like Okay, wait is this really I
Speaker 2: think I really liked the example of you being like, okay,
Speaker 2: feeling the need to spend every single night with friends,
Speaker 2: feeling need to go out to go out to dinner.
Speaker 2: That is the easiest thing, because saying yes is the
Speaker 2: easiest thing, but saying no is the hard thing, and
Speaker 2: it's sometimes the riving. So how do you think we
Speaker 2: can shift our outlook and our behaviors to be more intentional?
Speaker 2: What do you think like kind of being in the
Speaker 2: passenger being in like the driver's state, not the passenger state,
Speaker 2: really like mains in our twenties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Ironically, some of the times that I've felt most
Speaker 3: passive in my life have also been times where I'm
Speaker 3: most busy because I am filling my plate with all
Speaker 3: of these things while I'm being avoidant to maybe more
Speaker 3: of the personal goals and the personal things that are
Speaker 3: actually going to fulfill me. Busyness does not always equal fulfillment,
Speaker 3: And sometimes I think the hardest thing is to slow down,
Speaker 3: be honest with yourself, spend time just with yourself and
Speaker 3: like doing those slower things and figuring out kind of
Speaker 3: what your next step is and deciding what step to
Speaker 3: take forward, rather than being so busy that you can't
Speaker 3: even make that choice. You're just always moving. Sometimes for
Speaker 3: me that that busyness actually is the passiveness, because I'm
Speaker 3: being avoidant to my own life, and so I think
Speaker 3: the first thing that I would do if you find
Speaker 3: yourself being passive is to try to figure out why
Speaker 3: that is happening. Is it fear of not being able
Speaker 3: to reach a goal that you have in your mind.
Speaker 3: Is it a lack of self confidence to spend time
Speaker 3: with yourself and to step up, because maybe you've never
Speaker 3: been very comfortable just being alone with yourself and being
Speaker 3: accepting of yourself and working on yourself. Or maybe it's
Speaker 3: even just being kind of overwhelmed and unsure of which
Speaker 3: direction to go, because especially in our twenties, when nobody
Speaker 3: has their lives figured out at all, and we see
Speaker 3: all of these people around us in our own lives
Speaker 3: and then also perpetuated on the internet going in all
Speaker 3: different directions all at once, it can be really overwhelming
Speaker 3: to decide which direction we even want to go in,
Speaker 3: and then how do we even take that first step
Speaker 3: forward if there's one hundred options and we don't know
Speaker 3: which one to do. So being able to take that
Speaker 3: step back first rather than filling our lives with more busyness,
Speaker 3: and see why am I being passive? Is it fear?
Speaker 3: Is it self confidence? Is it that I'm overwhelmed? And
Speaker 3: then what is that first step forward for myself that's
Speaker 3: actually going to work, not just what everyone else is doing?
Speaker 2: And I think that comes down to values, right, That
Speaker 2: is such a precious and personal thing for each of us.
Speaker 2: But when we're really caught up in comparing ourselves, that's
Speaker 2: a big one. Seeing what everyone else is doing and
Speaker 2: feeling like we're coming up short. Your motivation is not
Speaker 2: the same as theirs. You have no idea why they're
Speaker 2: doing what they're doing, why it's important to them, their stamina,
Speaker 2: their energy reserves, whether they're actually sitting back at the
Speaker 2: end of the day and being like, Wow, nothing I
Speaker 2: did today was intentional. This was all just like clutter
Speaker 2: that I felt compelled to do. So I think taking
Speaker 2: time to be like, Okay, I don't actually need to
Speaker 2: know what I want exactly, I don't need a five
Speaker 2: year plan. I don't need to have it all worked out.
Speaker 2: I think having it all worked out is actually a
Speaker 2: bad thing because you have no room for flexibility and
Speaker 2: for surprise and for exac It's mainly being like, what
Speaker 2: are the values that I want to guide my decision
Speaker 2: making by. Is it that I want to be like
Speaker 2: guided by creativity and I want to be exploring ways
Speaker 2: to be creative? And that means that no, I can't
Speaker 2: say yes to all my social plans because I do
Speaker 2: need space for rest and space for my imagination. Is
Speaker 2: it okay, I'm really motivated by growth, and I'm really
Speaker 2: motivated by intelligence, or I'm really motivated by whatever it
Speaker 2: is that is like, oh, I think independence. Maybe that's
Speaker 2: like the value that drives your kind of financial goals
Speaker 2: and how active you are and your financial goals. Right,
Speaker 2: it's like, stop trying to pursue things from a place
Speaker 2: of wanting to please others or wanting to do what
Speaker 2: others are doing. That's what makes you passive. Do it
Speaker 2: from a place of once again, when you're intentional about
Speaker 2: your motivations, your inspiration, your mission, I think everything becomes
Speaker 2: a lot easier. Have you guys kind of found that.
Speaker 3: Exactly something that has always grounded me in my own
Speaker 3: life because it can definitely be overwhelming for me to
Speaker 3: think about, like where do I want to see myself
Speaker 3: in five years? What do I want my exact career
Speaker 3: to be, because for me, that's never been something that
Speaker 3: has come naturally picking one path. But what really grounds
Speaker 3: me and helps me be more stable and be more
Speaker 3: active in my life regardless of that, is to think about, Okay,
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what the tangible thing is that
Speaker 3: I need. I don't need to know exactly the tangible
Speaker 3: path and that career and whatever the relationship in the timeline.
Speaker 3: I don't need to know that. But what really matters
Speaker 3: to me is to know, like what my values are
Speaker 3: that are always going to be there, and what the
Speaker 3: feeling that I want in life is. Because your twenties,
Speaker 3: and I say this as someone who's just basically started
Speaker 3: my twenties, I'm only twenty one, but I think it's
Speaker 3: such a good time to experiment because nobody knows exactly
Speaker 3: where they're going. And like you said, I don't think
Speaker 3: you should. I think that's kind of a bad thing
Speaker 3: because you're gonna put yourself on a path and you're
Speaker 3: not going to let yourself change your mind. You're not
Speaker 3: going to keep yourself open to other opportunities that might
Speaker 3: come up. And so when I try to focus on
Speaker 3: the feeling that I want out of my life instead
Speaker 3: of those tangible things, I can really keep myself open
Speaker 3: to opportunities that come up and all of these things
Speaker 3: that might bring those feelings for me. So, for example,
Speaker 3: if we're talking about that feeling of independence and freedom,
Speaker 3: you can find different ways to get that out of
Speaker 3: your life on big levels and on little levels throughout
Speaker 3: your day. So maybe that financial independence or just that
Speaker 3: feeling of freedom in general. On the grandest scheme you
Speaker 3: can think of is owning your own business and working
Speaker 3: for yourself. But maybe that's not a tangible, reachable thing
Speaker 3: for you in this moment, but you still want to
Speaker 3: have that feeling. So maybe a lower level of that
Speaker 3: is doing some traveling or maybe reading books and just
Speaker 3: educating yourself on things that you're interested in and taking
Speaker 3: that sense of agency and independence in your life. And
Speaker 3: maybe even on a day to day level, it's just
Speaker 3: doing activities by yourself. So when you know what those
Speaker 3: values are and what those felseelings are, I think that
Speaker 3: it helps you to be active in your life from
Speaker 3: day one, because it doesn't need to be I'm jumping
Speaker 3: right to the finish line right now, but there are
Speaker 3: things that I can find today, this week, this month
Speaker 3: that still give me that feeling, and things can really
Speaker 3: snowball from there. Sometimes it's kind of silly. Our show
Speaker 3: name is Girls with Goals, But in the recent I mean,
Speaker 3: we've been doing this for almost three years, and the
Speaker 3: reason i'd say two years or answer to the question
Speaker 3: like what are your goals or what do you want
Speaker 3: to do with your life? Are healing, we have an
Speaker 3: answer like we just want to chase improvement and chase
Speaker 3: feeling good, and that is I don't think it's the
Speaker 3: answer that we would have said three years ago when
Speaker 3: we started this show. I probably would have given you
Speaker 3: a list of like five thanks that I want to accomplish,
Speaker 3: and you know, maybe I did accomplish those five things.
Speaker 3: But doesn't stop when you accomplish them. And life also
Speaker 3: doesn't stop if you don't accomplish your goals or if
Speaker 3: you have some failures along the way. And so I
Speaker 3: think a massive, massive point that we've learned in the
Speaker 3: past couple of years that this has been something that
Speaker 3: we've you know, had to art take you over and
Speaker 3: over again, the concept of goals and in our frame
Speaker 3: of mind, what are our goals or that we don't
Speaker 3: have any or at least not tangible ones necessarily, but
Speaker 3: we do have a direction. We have a kind of
Speaker 3: quality that we expect of ourselves. And I think that
Speaker 3: is a really big point that's taken us. I mean,
Speaker 3: speaking for myself, but taking me at least into a
Speaker 3: more you know, controlled and intentional and like really self
Speaker 3: aware journey into improvement and whatever that may be literally
Speaker 3: every aspect of life. So I can't tell you I
Speaker 3: go to the gym every day. I'm not gonna sit
Speaker 3: here and tell you I have a gym goal because
Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you that. I don't want to style
Speaker 3: right like you do a continuous thing exactly. And I
Speaker 3: mean three years ago, I was like, I want to
Speaker 3: hit one hundred and fifty pounds squat. I don't know
Speaker 3: who my squad weigh is, right, and I couldn't tell
Speaker 3: you how much I squat. Right now, I would go
Speaker 3: to the gym because I want to continue showing up
Speaker 3: myself and I want to feel strong and I want
Speaker 3: to be healthy, and like that's why I do it.
Speaker 3: And of course things come in and out. You have
Speaker 3: different mini goals in your life, but and it's really
Speaker 3: fun to set many goals along the way, but that's
Speaker 3: not like the end all, be all goal. And sometimes
Speaker 3: when you do set those really tangible and really specific goals,
Speaker 3: that's when you feel the passive if passiveness come in,
Speaker 3: because that's all you're working towards, your kind of tunnel
Speaker 3: vision towards that, and everything else falls behind or isn't
Speaker 3: front of mind. You're not really putting intentional effort towards it,
Speaker 3: and then you get into this rut where things feel
Speaker 3: so much like clutter. I'd love that word that you
Speaker 3: said earlier, that even the goal you're working towards feels
Speaker 3: a little bit like clutter. And then you're gonna get
Speaker 3: to a point really what am I even doing? And
Speaker 3: I mean at that point you're in the passive era
Speaker 3: and you're I guess snapping out of it. But that's
Speaker 3: how you kind of in my mind, that's in my experience,
Speaker 3: how I've become passive is almost by getting too specific
Speaker 3: on what I want in an overwhelming sense.
Speaker 2: That's actually so interesting because one of my questions was
Speaker 2: was going to be how is your relationship to your
Speaker 2: goals changed as you get older?
Speaker 3: Oh? Wow?
Speaker 2: And I was like, that's like such a good answer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, dely is like a maturity thing too. I mean,
Speaker 3: I know you're so fan, I know Karen's heir so fan,
Speaker 3: but the like please please yell at me if I
Speaker 3: get the lyrics wrong. But eighteen and nothing else? How
Speaker 3: do you know everything at eighteen and nothing at twenty one? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 3: that was right. I feel like that. That that's me, Thanks, guys.
Speaker 3: I mean that's obviously something that a lot of people
Speaker 3: can relate to. You kind of feel like you have everything.
Speaker 3: And maybe those really specific goals work well when you're
Speaker 3: around eighteen because you're you don't have to act on them.
Speaker 3: I don't act them on them right away, dream and
Speaker 3: if you do act on them, like Kroen said, it's
Speaker 3: not I'm going to own my own business. It's like
Speaker 3: I go to work. I work my minium wage job
Speaker 3: in high school, and that's me with financial freedom. That
Speaker 3: satisfies that craving, I guess, whereas once, yeah, the stakes
Speaker 3: are much lower. It's kind of it's exponential, whereas a
Speaker 3: few years later you're twenty one. World of possibilities. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think how my relationship with goal setting has changed
Speaker 3: in the more recent years. Is that a lot of
Speaker 3: my goals are more of these continuous goals versus end
Speaker 3: game goals, because it in for my mind and the
Speaker 3: way that my mind works. I am very future and
Speaker 3: forward thinking, and if I tell myself that I need
Speaker 3: something and want to do something, I get so one
Speaker 3: track minded with it that it tends to lead me
Speaker 3: down this like anxious path of having to get somewhere
Speaker 3: as fast as I can and like on that track,
Speaker 3: and then I'm pretty avoidant of other things around me.
Speaker 3: And then obviously that is not good when you don't
Speaker 3: get exactly there. And I think something that really showed
Speaker 3: me that I actually like have matured in that and
Speaker 3: done that well recently is I was looking for part
Speaker 3: time internships and things to do with this next year
Speaker 3: ahead of me because I have one year of college left,
Speaker 3: but I actually only have one semester worth of classes
Speaker 3: to do, so I have a much lower schedule. And
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, well, I maybe I want to
Speaker 3: work for a startup in Boston and kind of fill
Speaker 3: more of my time. And I was really excited about
Speaker 3: this one opportunity. It was like sports marketing seemed really
Speaker 3: up my alley, you know, had some social media aspects
Speaker 3: and fitness and marketing, and I was one month, three
Speaker 3: interviews deep in this company and they turned me down,
Speaker 3: and which, yeah, sad, but honestly, I was so shocked
Speaker 3: that I got that, and I was like, huh, okay,
Speaker 3: well they must not be what I was supposed to
Speaker 3: be doing. And like myself a couple of years ago,
Speaker 3: having been rejected to something that I was, you know
Speaker 3: a little bit emotionally involved in and like starting to
Speaker 3: think forward about it, I would have been so much
Speaker 3: more destroyed by that, whereas I was able to like
Speaker 3: move on and forget about it than a day because
Speaker 3: I have my podcast going for me, and I still
Speaker 3: have school, and I know that the other opportunities are
Speaker 3: going to come and open up. And so I think
Speaker 3: that being able to have more of these continuous goals
Speaker 3: of like I just want to feel successful, I want
Speaker 3: to feel independent, I want to feel healthy, versus I
Speaker 3: want to feel successful by getting this exact position at
Speaker 3: this exact time, really keeps me moving forward because I
Speaker 3: think that in later years, if I had gotten rejected
Speaker 3: or something, then I might have just stopped installed right there,
Speaker 3: and I wouldn't have kept moving forward. And so I
Speaker 3: think specifically in your twenties when you're navigating these paths
Speaker 3: and like, what am I going to do? If you
Speaker 3: can set out to do things without the pressure of
Speaker 3: them having to be endgame, then taking that path forward
Speaker 3: is so much more exciting and you're able to learn
Speaker 3: and evolve and grow along the way rather than you know,
Speaker 3: seeing something as a hard stop. And I think that
Speaker 3: kind of the really tangible, really specific, big goals that
Speaker 3: are almost too far out of reach in the current moment,
Speaker 3: because I will never tell that nothing is too far
Speaker 3: out of reach, but in the current moment, something is
Speaker 3: probably too far out of reach if you're setting a massive,
Speaker 3: massive goal. The way that that becomes passive, I think,
Speaker 3: just listening to Caroline talk, this is my concept on it.
Speaker 3: This is what my brain's doing while I'm listening to her.
Speaker 3: When you get those really really big goals, the reason
Speaker 3: I know they don't work out for me, and I
Speaker 3: know a lot of people probably have the same experience,
Speaker 3: is you're almost doubting yourself. And self doubt is something
Speaker 3: that we talked about a lot, or the inverse self confidence,
Speaker 3: because we want self confidence, of course, don't really want
Speaker 3: self doubt if it's debilitating but in the passive sense,
Speaker 3: it self doubt is debilitating. And so when you set
Speaker 3: these really really big goals, it's like you kind of
Speaker 3: self sabotage. And I'm sure you've talked about this on
Speaker 3: your show before too, but you kind of self sabotage,
Speaker 3: and that default into the passive zone is, in my
Speaker 3: mind one hundred percent that self sabotage because you're like,
Speaker 3: kind of I'm not even gonna try. I'm just gonna,
Speaker 3: in the back of my mind hope that this massive
Speaker 3: goal that I think I want for myself worked out,
Speaker 3: but I'm really not gonna put like tons of effort
Speaker 3: towards it or like intentional effort. And that's not a
Speaker 3: zone that we want.
Speaker 2: To be in because it feels like you have so
Speaker 2: much time, right because it is such a big thing,
Speaker 2: But I also think so.
Speaker 3: Much space for excuses exactly.
Speaker 2: I also think that like with big goals that are
Speaker 2: like numbers, for example, you talked about like one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty pounds squad or like I don't know, a
Speaker 2: huge milestone, a marathon that's another one something like that,
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, once you hit that, you lose steam
Speaker 2: because it's not sustainable because your goal is one point
Speaker 2: in time. It is before you reach the goal, and
Speaker 2: it is when you reach the goal, and the afterward
Speaker 2: is you don't have anything for that. And I was
Speaker 2: talking to my friend who did a marathon recently, so impressive,
Speaker 2: and she was like, yeah, I don't want to run
Speaker 2: anymore because that was so freaking exhausting. She was like,
Speaker 2: that was awful, Like I'm I was working. She basically
Speaker 2: recreated her whole lifestyle around this huge thing that she,
Speaker 2: I think thought was going to bring her a lot
Speaker 2: of other things. It was going to bring her confidence,
Speaker 2: it was going to bring her control, it was going
Speaker 2: to bring her empowerment. Yes, those things did happen, but
Speaker 2: she wasn't thinking about how running was going to promote
Speaker 2: those things as a lifestyle. She was thinking about how
Speaker 2: she was going to get to this goal. And what
Speaker 2: that meant was that once the goal had been obtained,
Speaker 2: all of the habits, all of the processes, all of
Speaker 2: the attitude adjustments that she'd had in that process were suddenly,
Speaker 2: you know, no longer useful for her. And so I
Speaker 2: think that that's like a really important part about when
Speaker 2: we think about goals and you think about being active
Speaker 2: in your life, not being a passive agent. Immediately, your
Speaker 2: mind might go to, Okay, well, I need to set
Speaker 2: like the biggest goal possible because that's going to give
Speaker 2: me focus. But really, your time kind of ends when
Speaker 2: that goal is reached and you're not thinking about how
Speaker 2: you actually want to create a good life around that
Speaker 2: thing and beyond that thing. If that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes so much sense. I love that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because you kind of shorten your life. You stop thinking
Speaker 3: about your life in terms of like I'm gonna live
Speaker 3: till forever and me running is gonna make me healthy
Speaker 3: and like get my muscles up and build my bone
Speaker 3: strength and get my heart pumping, and that's going to
Speaker 3: help me live forever, and like have so much time
Speaker 3: to enjoy life and experience so many new things, like oh,
Speaker 3: my marathons in six months, Like my life now only
Speaker 3: exists six months out in my head. And then nothing
Speaker 3: else is really important to you anymore, or nothing else
Speaker 3: is at the forefront of your your brain. It's not
Speaker 3: you know, career longevity, maintaining friendships super heavily, anything else
Speaker 3: beyond just that marathon training example falls into the passive zone. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, that's actually very interesting because I had never
Speaker 3: thought about somebody having that experience. You know, you don't
Speaker 3: see people talking about kind of the aftermath of achieving
Speaker 3: great goals like that, but you do see it so
Speaker 3: often in you know, business, where somebody it takes off
Speaker 3: and is so successful and then all of a sudden
Speaker 3: there's bankruptcy the next day, and it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: how did that happen? And it's maybe because we're not
Speaker 3: planning for longevity and sustainability and so not to say,
Speaker 3: don't go out and set the big goals of the
Speaker 3: marathon and things like that, but maybe make it a
Speaker 3: longer journey and take the baby steps to get there,
Speaker 3: or plan ahead for like, Okay, how do I want
Speaker 3: to continue to do this after the fact instead of
Speaker 3: making a kind of that end game. Maybe that taking
Speaker 3: more action in your life is thinking ahead towards how
Speaker 3: am I going to manage this afterwards and not fall
Speaker 3: back into a passive state after it.
Speaker 2: Because goals are important, Like that's the I feel absolutely obviously,
Speaker 2: like we're sitting here being like, no, goals are super important.
Speaker 2: They are so valuable. Like even last night I was
Speaker 2: journling about it. I mean, like, this is what I
Speaker 2: want out of the next six months of my life.
Speaker 2: But the things that I wanted were not like specifics.
Speaker 2: They weren't like the I feel like there's this thing
Speaker 2: of like smart goals where they have to be like specific, measurable, actionable,
Speaker 2: something are realistic and timely. Yeah, that's great, love that,
Speaker 2: but and I get that there's like a lot of
Speaker 2: research behind that. I really actually don't agree. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: get that it's like a really nice idea, but I'm like, actually, no,
Speaker 2: those are things that once you do, you tick them
Speaker 2: off and you actually aren't invested in as a lifestyle change. Yes,
Speaker 2: whereas when you have goals that are like personal sustainable
Speaker 2: and like about attitudes and beliefs and lifestyle like, those
Speaker 2: things are so much more valuable for actually changing your life.
Speaker 2: And I was listening to this ted talk, which I love.
Speaker 2: It's the Elizabeth Gilbert one on like success, and she
Speaker 2: basically said that all her life she had been she's
Speaker 2: an author, she'd been waiting for success, and she'd been
Speaker 2: waiting for a book to be published and for a
Speaker 2: book to become a best seller. And then she wrote
Speaker 2: a pray love which everybody knows cultural phenomena. And afterwards
Speaker 2: she was like, oh, hey, that's all I ever wanted.
Speaker 2: I'm like at the top of the mountain. Now what?
Speaker 2: And she had to actually really relearn to love the process.
Speaker 2: And it's called learned industriousness, which I love. It's like
Speaker 2: a psychology term that's kind of in opposition to learned helplessness,
Speaker 2: where it's like, learned industriousness is about not being too
Speaker 2: overly invested in what Obviously you care about the outcome,
Speaker 2: but actually you care more about enjoying the process. It's
Speaker 2: kind of like the age old question of like what's
Speaker 2: better the destination or the journey? And this thing, this
Speaker 2: this idea says no, the journey one hundred percent, because
Speaker 2: how you meant to get to the destination if you
Speaker 2: hate the journey? Right, Like, how are you ever going
Speaker 2: to care about all that time where you're not going
Speaker 2: to see results if you don't actually love the thing
Speaker 2: that you're doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, talking about you know all the time that you
Speaker 3: don't see results. I think with anything we want in
Speaker 3: our life, it can seem daunting that so many of
Speaker 3: these things that we might want to achieve are not
Speaker 3: things that are going to come to us overnight. And
Speaker 3: I think that's a huge reason we might be passive
Speaker 3: in starting something, because we know that our effort tomorrow
Speaker 3: is not going to be seen tomorrow. You know it's
Speaker 3: going to take our effort tomorrow in the next day
Speaker 3: and the weeks after before we really start seeing things.
Speaker 3: And I think that that fear, or that not immediate
Speaker 3: satisfaction is a huge reason why we might be passive
Speaker 3: in things. And when it comes to anything great. You know,
Speaker 3: it's so cliche to say consistency is key, but I
Speaker 3: do think that it really is, because you know, it
Speaker 3: could take ninety nine tries at something and then the
Speaker 3: one hundredth one works, But because you showed up for
Speaker 3: those hundred days and you did that, that one hundredth
Speaker 3: one being a success makes up for everything else that
Speaker 3: you've worked for. Says you know, those hundred days, those
Speaker 3: hundred tries, whatever it is, those are going to go
Speaker 3: by anyways. And you could have those go by being
Speaker 3: passive and never trying, or you could have those go
Speaker 3: by trying and learning and learning until it works, or
Speaker 3: just being consistent over and over until your results compile
Speaker 3: enough to really see it happen. I mean, taking podcasts
Speaker 3: for example, yours and ours. I'm sure we both had
Speaker 3: many episodes or even iterations of the podcast and the
Speaker 3: content before we really felt like we had something like
Speaker 3: oh that was an episode and a topic that I
Speaker 3: was super proud of, or oh wow, that just reached
Speaker 3: a lot of people that went viral. Like it doesn't
Speaker 3: nothing that you do is going to be an immediate success.
Speaker 3: And so being able to accept that and understand that,
Speaker 3: like nothing worth having really is going to be like
Speaker 3: an immediate success or give you that immediate gratification, I
Speaker 3: think is a really big step in not being passive,
Speaker 3: because that is something you have to accept in order
Speaker 3: to step into the activity of whatever it is you
Speaker 3: want to do. It is kind of a cool thing
Speaker 3: when you think about how you perceive time, at least
Speaker 3: for me, in terms of passive versus active or you know,
Speaker 3: passive time versus a successful venture. Say something takes like
Speaker 3: a month and you choose not to do it because
Speaker 3: it's scary and it's going to take a lot of
Speaker 3: effort and you don't have the energy or whatever you
Speaker 3: don't want to commit to it. That month is going
Speaker 3: to go by, and it's going to go by pretty quickly.
Speaker 3: Compared to if you're putting the effort in, but then
Speaker 3: after the month, you're going to look back and say,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I just wasted this home it started
Speaker 3: that thing, where would I've been right? And that one
Speaker 3: month is going to feel like an eternity, whereas the opposite.
Speaker 3: You start something at the beginning of that month and
Speaker 3: it takes about a month and then it's in your
Speaker 3: eyes deemed successful and you feel really good about it
Speaker 3: and you're proud about it and things are going well.
Speaker 3: That month may have been ruling. The month itself of
Speaker 3: work may have felt like an eternity. But once you
Speaker 3: get to the you know stage where you're feeling like
Speaker 3: this is successful, this is feeling good, like I'm proud
Speaker 3: of this, the month is gonna feel like it happened overnight,
Speaker 3: like you're gonna forget about all of the immediate hard times,
Speaker 3: like how many times have you been up until way
Speaker 3: like past midnight, like you're fighting a deadline to get
Speaker 3: an episode in, or like you're you're doing work. Everyone
Speaker 3: has had times, whether it's school, whether it's work, whether
Speaker 3: it's whatever, you're overworking yourself getting work done, and then
Speaker 3: you submit the thing you're done with the thing, it
Speaker 3: feels successful. You're like, I'm proud of myself. I did that.
Speaker 3: That was Let's do it again. Like that looked good,
Speaker 3: Like this feels good. Whereas the opposite, if you were
Speaker 3: in the passive zone, sure, that's the easy choice in
Speaker 3: terms of you know, effort exertion, but that's so frustrating
Speaker 3: when you get to the end of it and you
Speaker 3: realize I didn't do much.
Speaker 2: It's like a momentum thing, right, And it's like, I
Speaker 2: think this comes back to the at the end of
Speaker 2: the day. Is everyone This is such a cliche. Everyone
Speaker 2: has twenty four hours in the day, right, passive person
Speaker 2: will I think look at those hours and be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: they're empty, and so I'll just fill them with whatever.
Speaker 2: Like I'm just going, you know, I'm gonna do it
Speaker 2: hour by hour. I'm gonna do my life week by week,
Speaker 2: month by month, year by year. And you just end
Speaker 2: up looking back and being like, Okay, but there was
Speaker 2: all these opportunities for me to actually change something. There
Speaker 2: were all these opportunities for me to make a small
Speaker 2: change one day, a bigger change than next, and see
Speaker 2: a completely different path myself. Whereas I think somebody who
Speaker 2: is like actively choosing what they want for their life
Speaker 2: sees time not a space, but as opportunity to be
Speaker 2: like great, Like, this is what I want to do.
Speaker 2: This is who I want to be. This is like
Speaker 2: what I want to work on. This is like I
Speaker 2: want to do better by my health. So like there
Speaker 2: are all these hours in which I can go and exercise,
Speaker 2: and all these hours in which I can like choose
Speaker 2: to eat better foods, in which I can go to
Speaker 2: the doctor and I can like take care of myself
Speaker 2: and I can stretch, whereas a passive person is like, well,
Speaker 2: this is empty space too. If that comes up, maybe
Speaker 2: we'll do it. So I think it is about being like, yes,
Speaker 2: it's not all about long term goals. It's not always
Speaker 2: about overworking yourself. It's not always about using every single
Speaker 2: hour to be the best version of yourself because eventually
Speaker 2: you will burn out. It's about being like, this is
Speaker 2: what I want for my life. Where does this fit
Speaker 2: into my day? And where can I make space and
Speaker 2: time for this, so that this isn't just whatever happens,
Speaker 2: This is like a day that I have created, because
Speaker 2: like how you choose to live your days is how
Speaker 2: you live your life right at the end of the
Speaker 2: like at the end of your life, at the end
Speaker 2: of your month, at the end of the week, Like
Speaker 2: all of that comes down to these small units and
Speaker 2: these small decisions that we need to make. And it's
Speaker 2: kind of like you're choosing the decision that you're going
Speaker 2: to look back on and either a not remember or regret,
Speaker 2: or you're choosing the decision that you're going to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: really glad I did that, and I'm really proud of myself,
Speaker 2: even if it was hard.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's even just like changing your narrative and how
Speaker 3: you speak to yourself. I think there is huge power
Speaker 3: in the shift from saying I want to be something
Speaker 3: versus I am something, even if it's like a fake
Speaker 3: it till you make it kind of thing. Your mindset
Speaker 3: and your self belief drives everything, and I think that's
Speaker 3: on our show, that's something that almost every topic we
Speaker 3: can find a way to drill back to your belief
Speaker 3: in yourself, your relationship with yourself, because it's the difference
Speaker 3: between like, oh, I like I want to be healthier,
Speaker 3: but that is putting it as like a future thing,
Speaker 3: like oh, that's something that I have to I have
Speaker 3: to start someday, I have to achieve, versus saying like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm healthy, I make healthy choices. Even just saying that
Speaker 3: now you're like fifty percent of the way there, because
Speaker 3: you've already gone over the hurdle of your mind just
Speaker 3: by saying that now you can do it, like saying like,
Speaker 3: I'm confident, I'm healthy, I'm a good friend, I'm hardworking. Like,
Speaker 3: think about how much more powerful it is instead of saying, oh,
Speaker 3: I need to stop procrastinating, and then you're telling yourself, oh,
Speaker 3: that's a task I have to take on in the future,
Speaker 3: is to teach myself how to stop procrastinating, And so
Speaker 3: then you just stay in that same passive zone procrastinating, procrastinating,
Speaker 3: versus being like, I'm hard working, I'm gonna get this
Speaker 3: done and make myself proud. Like just that shift of
Speaker 3: the narrative in the way that you say things is
Speaker 3: enough to take the same activity and change it from
Speaker 3: a passive thing to an active thing. So it kind
Speaker 3: of comes back to how we started this episode, whereas like,
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean I'm adding more into my life and
Speaker 3: making it as busy as possible, but It's like, how
Speaker 3: am I being present in my life and taking these
Speaker 3: same twenty four hours, these same necessary tasks, this same
Speaker 3: free time and just making it my own versus letting
Speaker 3: it happen to me.
Speaker 2: It's such a I can't play game honestly. Yeah, get
Speaker 2: as you said, it's mental more than it is material
Speaker 2: in many ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jemmy, you said the word momentum earlier,
Speaker 3: and that I think is really huge, because there's so
Speaker 3: much to be said about the momentum of doing one
Speaker 3: active thing in your life and how much that can
Speaker 3: completely shift to your presence and change everything else you do.
Speaker 3: I think for everyone listening who wants kind of that
Speaker 3: first step forward of being more active, It's like, what's
Speaker 3: one thing that you can do first thing in the
Speaker 3: morning to make yourself feel more active? Maybe do you
Speaker 3: roll out of bed and immediately look on your phone
Speaker 3: and get sucked into everyone else's life and everyone else's world.
Speaker 3: Maybe the first thing you can do is like put
Speaker 3: your own literally, like put your own feet on the
Speaker 3: ground and like drink a glass of water, or just
Speaker 3: stand up and turn your own light on, like some
Speaker 3: action that just makes you feel like you're doing something
Speaker 3: in control, or maybe you have like an hour before
Speaker 3: the day and you can take a shower, or you
Speaker 3: can make yourself a good breakfast, you can get out
Speaker 3: for a walk. I think if you can do one
Speaker 3: thing in the beginning of the day that makes you
Speaker 3: feel active, then the rest of your day you're gonna
Speaker 3: feel so much more confident and you're gonna feel so
Speaker 3: much more present in it that Like, I even think
Speaker 3: about the difference between a day where because you know,
Speaker 3: every day is a little bit different for me. Sometimes
Speaker 3: I'm up and I'm Adam and i have a super
Speaker 3: productive day. Sometimes I'm sleeping in and I'm feel kind
Speaker 3: of lazy. If I'm having a day where I like
Speaker 3: sleep in, I'm lazy in the morning, don't really get out,
Speaker 3: then I feel like when I do get out, I'm
Speaker 3: just kind of like trudging through my day checking the boxes.
Speaker 3: Versus if I have a day where, like, you know,
Speaker 3: the first thing I do is, you know, get some
Speaker 3: fresh air outside or do something good for me. Then
Speaker 3: suddenly I'm like, you know, I'm walking down the street
Speaker 3: feeling like I'm literally running the city. Even if I'm
Speaker 3: doing the exact same things that I'm doing in the
Speaker 3: other day. If you can build a little bit of
Speaker 3: momentum with taking control of one small aspect of your
Speaker 3: life in the beginning, it really just gives you this
Speaker 3: sense of authority over your life. Even if you have
Speaker 3: boxes you have to check for work or for school
Speaker 3: or for anything else. It just makes you feel like
Speaker 3: you know you're doing it. You're not just getting through.
Speaker 2: It, And that's the thing you're doing it. This is you, right,
Speaker 2: Like that's the thing that we keep coming back to.
Speaker 2: And I feel like as we kind of like wrap
Speaker 2: things up, like that's the center of all of this
Speaker 2: is your choices, your time, your decisions, your values. That's like,
Speaker 2: that's that's what it is at its core. It's about
Speaker 2: not doing things for anybody else but yourself, Not doing
Speaker 2: things for anybody else's expectations, not doing things from the
Speaker 2: place of kind of your worst self or the self
Speaker 2: that you don't really like, doing it from the best
Speaker 2: version of you and your like ideal self. So I
Speaker 2: want to say big thank you to both of you
Speaker 2: for coming. I'm going to say back on the show.
Speaker 2: This is the first episode people will be hearing, thank
Speaker 2: you for joining me again and for kind of talking
Speaker 2: through this. I feel like this is such like a
Speaker 2: very liberating and like inspiring, motivating topic to cover. Where
Speaker 2: can the listeners find you if they want to hear more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, they can check out our show Girls with
Speaker 3: Gals on Spotify, Apple, wherever you listen to podcasts. We
Speaker 3: also have an Instagram page at Girls with Gals Pard,
Speaker 3: but our personal accounts are going to be Caroline Kenneyan
Speaker 3: and Katherine Kennee and that's both Instagram, TikTok. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much for having us on again. There's been we
Speaker 3: recorded back and forth a few times, and this every
Speaker 3: single time has been great. So this is awesome and
Speaker 3: we really appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, I love the way
Speaker 3: that you approach your episodes and you always have so
Speaker 3: much great tangible advice. But it's also very like comforting
Speaker 3: and approachable for everyone who listens, and so I'm glad
Speaker 3: that we were able to come on and share this
Speaker 3: topic with you. I think it was a great conversation
Speaker 3: from both ends.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm a big fan of it.
Speaker 2: So I will leave all of the links in the
Speaker 2: description of this episode so you can go and follow
Speaker 2: along with what Girls with Goals are doing. It's an
Speaker 2: amazing show. I personally really enjoy it and if you
Speaker 2: like what we talked about today, you'll find so much
Speaker 2: more of it there. So thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2: Make sure that you are following along on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
Speaker 2: whatever you're listening, and if you enjoyed this episode, share
Speaker 2: it with the friend or leave a five star review.
Speaker 2: It really does help the show to go and reach
Speaker 2: new people. As always, we will be back next week.
Speaker 2: Until then, stay safe, be kind, and we'll talk soon