1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,559
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

2
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:12,400
Speaker 2: A bloody Valentine. A husband murders his wife because she

3
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 2: quote just didn't give a shit about his Paris themed date,

4
00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,439
Speaker 2: and Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories.

5
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us. A Valentine's Day dinner

6
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,560
Speaker 3: turns deadly and Indiana mother of three young kids is

7
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 3: murdered during a romantic dinner.

8
00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,800
Speaker 2: Does it sound that romantic to me? He goes to

9
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,760
Speaker 2: Kroger to the Fine Wine aisle, brings home a bottle

10
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 2: of wine and plays their favorite song along with the

11
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,279
Speaker 2: kids drawing of the Eiffel Tower? What is she not

12
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,239
Speaker 2: supposed to remember the affair he had? Now let me

13
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 2: understand this is this real? A husband accused of bludgeoning

14
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:05,760
Speaker 2: and stabbing his wife forty times his words, not mine,

15
00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 2: because she didn't give a shot about his Paris themed

16
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:12,240
Speaker 2: night date.

17
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,120
Speaker 1: I think I've got that right, but maybe I'm wrong. Listen.

18
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,319
Speaker 4: Jeffersonville, Indiana police get a call about a possible domestic disturbance.

19
00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,120
Speaker 4: May respond to the upscale sixty six hundred block of

20
00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,559
Speaker 4: Westwood Drive, but cannot get into the home. Officers knock

21
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,880
Speaker 4: on the front door, but did I hear a response?

22
00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,680
Speaker 4: And decide force is necessary and breach the door.

23
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get straight to the facts, but first I'm

24
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:35,760
Speaker 1: going to go to doctor.

25
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,119
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall RENOUNCEDSYCHO and was joining us out of the LA.

26
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,400
Speaker 1: Jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.

27
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 2: You can find her at doctor Bethany MARSHALLMD dot com. Wait,

28
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,960
Speaker 2: that's doctor Bethany Marshall dot com and you can see

29
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,200
Speaker 2: her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for being

30
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,520
Speaker 2: with us. Let me understand something. Hobby puts on a

31
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,800
Speaker 2: sad little song, what does he pull it up on

32
00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,880
Speaker 2: his iPhone of what used to be their favorite song?

33
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 2: Buys a sad little bottle of wine at Kroger and

34
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,840
Speaker 2: has his child draw a picture of the Eiffel Tower,

35
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 2: and he's angry that she quote his words, doesn't give

36
00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 2: a about his Paris theme night date, so he murders her.

37
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:21,160
Speaker 1: What is she was?

38
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 2: She supposed to forget about the affair he had and

39
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,240
Speaker 2: be just bowled over by a glass of red wine.

40
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,240
Speaker 5: If we look at this from a domestic violence perspective,

41
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 5: this husband probably wanted power and control over her, because

42
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,320
Speaker 5: that's the m O with DV, and so probably him

43
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,959
Speaker 5: having an affair in the past, making her feel bad

44
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,760
Speaker 5: about herself. Probably giving her very little in the marriage

45
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,440
Speaker 5: was probably getting her to a point where she wanted

46
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,200
Speaker 5: some independence, and the fact that she wanted some independence

47
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,639
Speaker 5: destabilized him. So he steps up, does this little Valentine's

48
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,120
Speaker 5: Day dinner so he can try to get control over

49
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 5: him again. He's not trying to seduce her, give a

50
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,840
Speaker 5: gift or do something nice for her. He wants her

51
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,799
Speaker 5: back in the fold. But when she leaves for twenty minutes,

52
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 5: he becomes paranoid, thinks she's out with the boyfriend, and

53
00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,600
Speaker 5: then he decompensates, and that's when the ragefulness and you know,

54
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,200
Speaker 5: he takes the power over her to a whole new level.

55
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 5: When you kill somebody, that's the ultimate power.

56
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:21,079
Speaker 1: Correct.

57
00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 2: Let me understand something, doctor Bethany, What does it mean

58
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,800
Speaker 2: having not only prosecuted violent felonies for a decade in

59
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,960
Speaker 2: intercity Atlanta, but volunteered for nine of those years at

60
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 2: the Better Women Center on the hotline? How does it

61
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,280
Speaker 2: escalate or is that even the right word? To get

62
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 2: that angry because she didn't like your iPhone playing the

63
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 2: night we met or whatever it was, and giving me

64
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:57,040
Speaker 2: a glass of wine how does that escalate into murder?

65
00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,480
Speaker 2: Because in my world, bethany years of training makes me

66
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 2: look at the world a different way, such as is

67
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 2: their premeditation? Was this planned? When did he hatch the plot?

68
00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 2: What can I prove to a Jerry? What is probative

69
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,479
Speaker 2: to me? So the term you use escalate, I don't

70
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,320
Speaker 2: know that I agree with that, because that somehow means

71
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 2: that the situation got out of control and whoops, she's dead.

72
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 2: That's not what happened.

73
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 1: He had to go get the bottle that he used

74
00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 1: to bludgeon her, stab her.

75
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,600
Speaker 2: That took time and a forethought, a technical term we

76
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:39,559
Speaker 2: use in the law.

77
00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,360
Speaker 1: It didn't just escalate and whoops, it happened.

78
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 5: Right right, He didn't. In other words, he didn't snap

79
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,280
Speaker 5: because people love that word. So I see where you're

80
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,200
Speaker 5: going with this, and you're correct. Probably what happened is

81
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 5: at the beginning of the marriage he had tight control

82
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,719
Speaker 5: over her, and she wanted to have autonomy over her

83
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 5: whole life, her own life. Maybe she took a college course,

84
00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,119
Speaker 5: or started getting friends, or went out and got a job.

85
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,799
Speaker 5: And as she became more and more independent, the escalation

86
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 5: was that he became more and more paranoid, insecure. Remember,

87
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,479
Speaker 5: he sat on her back and was scrolling through her phone.

88
00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,160
Speaker 5: He was trying to spy on her through her watch.

89
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,719
Speaker 5: So when it escalated in that moment, it wasn't just

90
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,280
Speaker 5: like a snap or a sudden escalation. It had been

91
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:34,520
Speaker 5: escalating over years. But the fact is, when she said, Okay,

92
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 5: what are you going to do?

93
00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:35,919
Speaker 1: Kill me?

94
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 5: That was one act of independence. When she left and

95
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,280
Speaker 5: got in her car and drove away, that was another

96
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,120
Speaker 5: act of independence. So I would think that homicide that

97
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,880
Speaker 5: was contemplated at an unconscious level, or hatefulness that was

98
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:56,360
Speaker 5: contemplated for months or years, finally finally finally spilled over

99
00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,560
Speaker 5: when she became her own person.

100
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,640
Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Bethany, and I accept everything that you just said.

101
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 2: For those of you just joining us, a husband who

102
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,160
Speaker 2: is presumed innocent is suspected of bludgeoning and stabbing his

103
00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,880
Speaker 2: wife dead when she quote his words, not mine when

104
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:19,040
Speaker 2: she quote didn't give a share about his Paris theme party,

105
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,040
Speaker 2: so he murders her. On Valentine's Greg Morris Joining Me Guys,

106
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,520
Speaker 2: Greg Morse joining us out of Palm Beach, Florida is

107
00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,240
Speaker 2: a veteran trial lawyer. He's a partner at King Morse.

108
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 2: Your name should be first, by the way, former West

109
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,920
Speaker 2: Palm Beach Public Defender's Office and author of the Untested

110
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,839
Speaker 2: on Amazon. Greg, you know what of the many things

111
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 2: that I hate is when people say.

112
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 1: I snapped, or she snapped, or he snapped. There is

113
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,239
Speaker 1: no snap defense under the law.

114
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 2: Okay, So given that, and don't try to convince me otherwise,

115
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 2: because that's a lie. He would have to in order

116
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 2: to murder her in this manner bludgeoning the Hey, Christina Raya,

117
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:10,960
Speaker 2: I'm coming to you. But how many children.

118
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,120
Speaker 1: Did they have? Two? Or three?

119
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,160
Speaker 6: Three children, all under the age of.

120
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:15,320
Speaker 1: Five, Greg Morse.

121
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:21,440
Speaker 2: The children are at home, by the way, asleep, he

122
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,920
Speaker 2: had to think. Under the law, premeditation does not require

123
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,240
Speaker 2: a long period of time, such as I'm going to

124
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,720
Speaker 2: poison Greg Morris over the period of the next month,

125
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 2: where the little r say, every day in his coffee

126
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 2: till he is dead, not required. In fact, the time

127
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 2: required under the law, whether we like it or not,

128
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 2: can be in an instant, the twinkling of the moment,

129
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,520
Speaker 2: the blink of an eye, the time it takes me

130
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,040
Speaker 2: to raise this gun and pull the trigger. That is

131
00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,360
Speaker 2: enough time. Under the law for premeditation. In other words,

132
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,200
Speaker 2: murder one malice, murder, murder, A forethought this guy, if

133
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,840
Speaker 2: the allegations are true, husband, how to go and get

134
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,640
Speaker 2: the wine bottle, grasp it, raise it over his head

135
00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,400
Speaker 2: and bludget her over and over and over with the

136
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 2: thick glass of a wine bottle, and then stab her.

137
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 2: The knife to just materialize in his hand. Had to

138
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 2: get a knife and use it. So long story short,

139
00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,800
Speaker 2: that is time to form intent.

140
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 1: You're right.

141
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,360
Speaker 7: Intent can come up in the moment. You're one hundred

142
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,920
Speaker 7: percent right under the law. But in these type of cases,

143
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 7: when you talk about the phrase snapped, and I've represented

144
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,200
Speaker 7: people accused of violent felonies for twenty five years, and

145
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,720
Speaker 7: one thing is when the act to commit the violence,

146
00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 7: most people don't understand that moment in time and the

147
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,320
Speaker 7: consequence and wish they can take.

148
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 6: It all back.

149
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,319
Speaker 7: But what we can't do is look at an insanity.

150
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 7: We can't look at the crime. It's violent, it's horrible,

151
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,199
Speaker 7: So therefore the person must be insane. That crime is

152
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,800
Speaker 7: the outgrowth of insanity. And what I think we have here,

153
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,760
Speaker 7: and I've dealt with this before in cases, you probably

154
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,360
Speaker 7: have a timeline of this person the husband you know

155
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,000
Speaker 7: of getting frustrated, getting more warped than his understanding of

156
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,720
Speaker 7: his wife's relationship. People think mental illness is someone in

157
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,000
Speaker 7: a white coat in a room, but mental illness can

158
00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,079
Speaker 7: develop subtly, and it can develop over time. These folks

159
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 7: were looking for help that I guess an appointment with

160
00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 7: a marriage counselor three days later. Unfortunately, that makes you.

161
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 2: You are actually plunging a dagger into my heart.

162
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,079
Speaker 1: Your misstatement of the.

163
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:39,240
Speaker 2: Law is shameless mental illness. He had no prior mental

164
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,920
Speaker 2: illness at all. He got mad because his wife, and

165
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 2: he said this, she just didn't give us about my parents'

166
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:50,160
Speaker 2: them mine.

167
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:56,559
Speaker 1: He said that that is that is anger. Yes, no,

168
00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,720
Speaker 1: it's anger defense.

169
00:09:58,800 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 5: This was a regional law.

170
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 7: Yes, no, rageful killing, one hundred percent rageful killing that

171
00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:05,560
Speaker 7: amount of.

172
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 1: Under the law. Can you answer that with a straight face, Mors.

173
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,440
Speaker 7: But if I'm living in reality where that is the

174
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:20,840
Speaker 7: appropriate response to her reaction, then yes it is again, Nancy,

175
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:21,679
Speaker 7: the crime.

176
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:29,679
Speaker 2: Is he you say, is anger the appropriate response to her.

177
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 1: Reaction for his date nine? Okay, First of all, control.

178
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:44,240
Speaker 2: Mike cut his mind right now, Shannon Henry, Right, there

179
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:54,120
Speaker 2: is the problem crime stories with Nancy Grace.

180
00:10:58,120 --> 00:10:59,480
Speaker 1: Shannon Henry is joining me.

181
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 2: She's the president and founder of sas sass Go. It

182
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:11,000
Speaker 2: is surviving assault, standing strong on a mission to eradicate

183
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 2: abuse and violence against women and girls.

184
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,440
Speaker 1: Shannon, did you hear what he just said?

185
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 8: I did, and I'm so glad you cut him off

186
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,240
Speaker 8: so that the people listening don't believe that crap. This

187
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,440
Speaker 8: was not just about power and control. This was about ownership.

188
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,319
Speaker 8: He didn't have any anymore, and so he stole it.

189
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 8: It was not about rage. It wasn't a crime of passion.

190
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 8: I don't want to hear that either. This was a

191
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,600
Speaker 8: sadistic killing where he enjoyed watching her suffer from the

192
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,400
Speaker 8: dress he made her put on, to the dance he

193
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 8: made her due to the end where she begged for

194
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,960
Speaker 8: her life and the lives of her children. It was

195
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,680
Speaker 8: the grand finale of their marriage, from start to finish,

196
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,640
Speaker 8: and he enjoyed it all. And I guarantee you this

197
00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 8: wasn't the first time she felt like her life was

198
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,800
Speaker 8: being threatened, but it was the last.

199
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 1: Would you describe Shannon Henry?

200
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:04,920
Speaker 2: And I'm going to go out to the national news

201
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,360
Speaker 2: anchor at Salem News Channel, Christine Ohio. But Shannon Henry

202
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,720
Speaker 2: joining us from surviving assault standing strong mission eradicate violence

203
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:15,200
Speaker 2: on women.

204
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 1: You said from the dress he made her wear to

205
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,440
Speaker 1: the dance he made her do. What are you talking about?

206
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:30,319
Speaker 8: I'm talking about him setting up a stage where every

207
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 8: gift quote unquote was a threat and she knew it.

208
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,920
Speaker 8: You don't go from zero to murder this fast. And

209
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,240
Speaker 8: if she could clarify it for us all today, she

210
00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 8: would beg us to listen to her final words of

211
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 8: help and what are you going to do? Murder me

212
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,840
Speaker 8: and leave our children without parents? She was not confused

213
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,080
Speaker 8: about him. There is a gap that we have in

214
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 8: the story between her working hard as a twelve hour

215
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,560
Speaker 8: shift nurse to him being promiscuous and lazy up to

216
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 8: the date of February fourteenth, twenty twenty five where he

217
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,800
Speaker 8: murdered her. But I guarantee you some of her friends

218
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,280
Speaker 8: and co workers and family could fill in this gap

219
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,080
Speaker 8: for us. But the red flags are there. This was

220
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,160
Speaker 8: about ownership. He didn't have it anymore, so he stole

221
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 8: it and bragg to everyone who he could about taking it.

222
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 3: You details emerge after an Indiana doting husband and father

223
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:31,680
Speaker 3: allegedly confesses to murder after feeling unappreciated, were warning signs missed?

224
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,080
Speaker 1: Warning signs unappreciated?

225
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,719
Speaker 2: That is not justification for murder and joining me who

226
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 2: I've got a lot of problems with him?

227
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,720
Speaker 1: Greg Morris, a veteran trial lawyer.

228
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,680
Speaker 2: He's the partner at a big law firm, King Morse,

229
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,319
Speaker 2: He's apparently the king of the courtroom down in Palm

230
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 2: Beach County, Florida.

231
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,160
Speaker 1: But to Shannon Henry.

232
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,360
Speaker 2: Joining us, you can look at Morse, but keep his

233
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 2: MinC cut for just a moment, Shannon, he joining me

234
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:05,240
Speaker 2: from sas surviving assault standing strong. We got off topic

235
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,320
Speaker 2: because what you were saying was so interesting, But I

236
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,920
Speaker 2: want to go back to what Morse said. He responded

237
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 2: and got angry to her because of her reaction to

238
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:25,240
Speaker 2: his Paris theme night, which was basically a Bible cheat

239
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 2: red wine and playing a song on his iPhone that

240
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 2: was the theme night, and then getting some sexy dress

241
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,880
Speaker 2: and making her wear it and dance with him.

242
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:36,640
Speaker 1: That was the theme night.

243
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 2: Okay, right there, Shannon Henry, I can't tell you how

244
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,400
Speaker 2: many times I heard.

245
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 1: I did it because she fill in the blank.

246
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 2: Here is my seminal example, Shannon, This is a real example.

247
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 2: This happened on the hotline at the Batter Women's Center.

248
00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 1: The man beats the wife so badly she has to

249
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:00,760
Speaker 1: go to the.

250
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:05,520
Speaker 2: Hospital because he was bringing people from work home and

251
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:10,000
Speaker 2: he told her to make a Mexican dinner, so she

252
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,240
Speaker 2: makes a Mexican dinner. He comes in and finds out,

253
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,800
Speaker 2: I don't remember which one she made, tacos not Enchilada's.

254
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:27,720
Speaker 2: And he beat her to a pulp. So he actually said, well,

255
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:28,760
Speaker 2: it's because she.

256
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:30,960
Speaker 1: Made the wrong thing.

257
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 2: Here, you hear Greg Morrise defend and I know what

258
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 2: he's doing.

259
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 1: He's defending the husband here. That's his job. He is saying.

260
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:51,560
Speaker 2: He just had this response because of her reaction. She

261
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:59,280
Speaker 2: reacted badly, and he responded, it's always the woman's fault, Shannon.

262
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,760
Speaker 8: It's always theman's fault. And what's so sad is to

263
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 8: look at the stack of red flags that are against him.

264
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,040
Speaker 8: He had no remorse. He bragged about how big the

265
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 8: knife was. He sent the pictures. He made her do

266
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 8: a song and dance in front of him and act

267
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,760
Speaker 8: like she enjoyed it, and when she didn't seem to

268
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 8: appreciate it, he murdered her. And he is the only

269
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 8: one responsible for that.

270
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 2: We also learned that he was convinced his wife was

271
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 2: dating a coworker.

272
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:32,680
Speaker 1: Answer.

273
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 2: Barry Hutchinson, former law enforcement twenty six years veteran detective,

274
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 2: now owner chief operator of Barry in Associates Investigative Services,

275
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,960
Speaker 2: and you can find him on his new website, p

276
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,520
Speaker 2: I Pride Investigator Barry b A r R.

277
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,160
Speaker 1: Wife Barry, thank you for being with us.

278
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 2: Oh what a tangled web results from imagining your mate

279
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 2: having an affair with a co worker. Lucky for me,

280
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,879
Speaker 2: my husband he knew I would never have an affair

281
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,800
Speaker 2: with a defense attorney or all the other eligible men

282
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 2: that were in the courtroom, mostly convicted felons in leg

283
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:14,840
Speaker 2: irons and shackles.

284
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 1: And I have.

285
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 2: Never even considered that he would run around with a

286
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 2: client or a co worker. I just, in fact, one

287
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,200
Speaker 2: time I read his emails one time. One time they

288
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,240
Speaker 2: were so boring. He's a banker, My eyes bled. I

289
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,120
Speaker 2: just it was awful if I had to check up

290
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,439
Speaker 2: on a man to figure out if he's.

291
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 1: Cheating, why do I need him?

292
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:43,200
Speaker 6: Bye bye?

293
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,679
Speaker 2: But here this guy was convinced she's having an affair,

294
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 2: and it justified murder.

295
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,679
Speaker 9: Well, there's no justification in murder, regardless of what the

296
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 9: circumstances are. I mean, so you know that as well

297
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 9: as I do. I think what we have here is

298
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,640
Speaker 9: a classic case of when motive meets opperunity. I think

299
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 9: it was a long based talkic relationship that this young

300
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,639
Speaker 9: lady unfortunately, should have been out of long before this

301
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 9: ever happened. The only saving grace in this whole scenario

302
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,440
Speaker 9: that I can even come up with in my mind

303
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 9: is that I'm just thankful that it didn't turn out

304
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 9: to be a swat call where the kids were endangered,

305
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,680
Speaker 9: where he actually executed the children too, as the ultimate

306
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 9: showing of I'm going to hurt them in front of you,

307
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 9: just to show you what I think of you. We've

308
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 9: seen that happen on swat calls many many, many times,

309
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 9: and we're fortunate if that didn't take place.

310
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 2: You mean, and what they call now Barry a family annihilator.

311
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 2: So what I'm asking you, and it was in a

312
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 2: very roundabout way, and I apologize for.

313
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 1: That, Barry. I know that as a PI you get

314
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 1: a lot of calls.

315
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,160
Speaker 2: About I think my girlfriend, boyfriend, ex wife blah blah

316
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,440
Speaker 2: is cheating. Isn't it true that very often people get

317
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,120
Speaker 2: this in their head and it's absolutely not true at all.

318
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 9: That's very true, very true. In fact, the biggest thing

319
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 9: that we do, and we tell all of our clients

320
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 9: SYS up front, is that our mission is to vet

321
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,480
Speaker 9: your spouse that they are not cheating, and if it

322
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,679
Speaker 9: turns out that they are, then we'll address it at

323
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 9: that point. But our mission is to vet them that

324
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 9: they are not doing.

325
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: So, guys, listen to what happened.

326
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,479
Speaker 4: Deborah's friend receives a photo texted from Deborah's phone. It

327
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,560
Speaker 4: shows Deborah Meyer motionless and bloody on the floor of

328
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 4: her home with the caption your fault. Nine one one

329
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,680
Speaker 4: Dispatch gets a call from the coworker of Deborah Meyer.

330
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 4: When they arrive, Taylor Meyer is refusing to come to

331
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:36,639
Speaker 4: the door.

332
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: Almost as soon.

333
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 4: As police arrive, so does Deborah Meyer's coworkers.

334
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 2: Okay, I've got so much premeditation. It's out the ying

335
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 2: yang technical legal term. Here to Kristin Awayo joining me,

336
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,879
Speaker 2: national news anchor Salem News, explain to me that sequence

337
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,120
Speaker 2: of events, the.

338
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 1: Co worker.

339
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 2: Finds out that there's a quote domestic situation, which is,

340
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 2: you know, a euphemism for somebody's.

341
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: Getting their rear in beat, all right, that's what that means.

342
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 2: Coworker calls nine to one one and coworker says, Deborah

343
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 2: Meyer is being attacked right now, go to this address.

344
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 2: Cops get there, and then the coworker gets a text

345
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 2: describe that sequence of events for me, so I understand

346
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 2: exactly what happened.

347
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 1: That's the wildest part about all of this, right.

348
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 6: So, Deborah Meyer's husband, Taylor actually calls a contact in

349
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 6: the phone who he thinks is the boyfriend, which is

350
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 6: actually the co worker while he's sitting on Deborah Meyer's back,

351
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,159
Speaker 6: and she's screaming in the background, help me, help me,

352
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 6: help me. So her coworker hears this while her husband

353
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 6: is telling the coworker this is all your fault. So

354
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 6: of course the coworker calls the cops and says she's

355
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 6: in danger. I can hear her screaming. He hops in

356
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 6: his car high tails it over to her house, as

357
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 6: do the cops, and they're meeting in the front yard.

358
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 6: The cops are trying to get into the front door.

359
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 6: Of course, Taylor Myers not answering the door because he's

360
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 6: abusing his wife, possibly killing her. At that very moment,

361
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 6: because it was while the coworker was standing in the

362
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 6: front yard of the home, he gets the text message

363
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 6: of the picture of Deborah Meyer on the floor of

364
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 6: her own home dead. So that's when police officers decide

365
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 6: to bust down the door. They said that Taylor Meyer

366
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 6: was aggressive, resisted arrest, and they finally arrested him. But

367
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 6: it's almost safe to presume that he could have been

368
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 6: in the act of killing her while the police officers

369
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 6: and the coworker we're out on the front lawn trying

370
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,399
Speaker 6: to get into the house. I mean, it was that

371
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 6: tight of a timeline.

372
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 10: Accusing her husband of cheating on her and ignoring their

373
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 10: children via email, Deborah tries explaining her feelings by saying,

374
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 10: I'm supposed to be your wife, your partner, raising children

375
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 10: with you, co parenting. I get that you have hobbies

376
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 10: and want some time to yourself, but I also feel

377
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 10: like that should be limited to certain times of the

378
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 10: day and not just immediately get home, shower and go

379
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 10: play games and ignore your family that has missed you

380
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 10: all day.

381
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 2: That is an email that she, the murder victim, sent

382
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,719
Speaker 2: to her husband prior to her murder. Christina Owyo joining

383
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 2: me national news anchor, Salem News. So she is asking

384
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: him to help her raise the children. I quote, get

385
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 2: you have hobbies and want time to yourself, but I

386
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 2: also feel like you should spend time with the children,

387
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 2: not just get home, shower and go play games. I

388
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: would do a backflip after I work all day long

389
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 2: and make dinner. And if my husband came home and

390
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 2: immediately went to the back and got on video games.

391
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, fur would fly. Let me just tell you that.

392
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,239
Speaker 1: And she's writing in this nice email about it.

393
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 6: And this was back in twenty twenty three, and this

394
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 6: is the same email where she accused him of cheating.

395
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 6: So the story of Infhtae is going back to the

396
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 6: beginning part of their marriage. She said that he was

397
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 6: in the email accused him of having a relationship with

398
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 6: another woman which he kept in contact constant context with,

399
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 6: And she even accused him of seeing that woman who

400
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 6: she thought she was dating, directly before the family went

401
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 6: and took family Christmas pictures. So she already thought he

402
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 6: was cheating. He may have been cheating, he was ignoring

403
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 6: the family, she was reaching out, and she in that

404
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 6: email actually threatened to leave him, which she didn't want

405
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 6: to do because it was going to be hard to

406
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 6: take care.

407
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 8: Of the three kids.

408
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 2: But she was going to Yes, what did nude photos

409
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 2: and somebody's phone mean to you?

410
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: Cheatings?

411
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 2: For me? That means divorcee and doctor Bethany Marshall listened

412
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: to this.

413
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 4: Frustrated and feeling like a single mom, Deborah writes an

414
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 4: email to her husband accusing him of cheating, claiming he

415
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 4: met up with his girlfriend minutes before they took their

416
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 4: family Christmas photo together at the mall. In the explosive email,

417
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 4: Debraa said she doesn't want him sending and receiving nude

418
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 4: photos from people he was with before they were together

419
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 4: as a couple. Nebra also accuses her husband of ignoring

420
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 4: her and the couple's three children to play video games.

421
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 4: She concludes the email with quote, raising three kids is exhausting,

422
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 4: but if I have to, I'm going to do it alone.

423
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 4: Just let me know and I'll figure something else out.

424
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: Raising three children on her own. That's how she felt

425
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: nude photos he's exchanging.

426
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 2: With old girlfriends, according to her, ducking out to see

427
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 2: the girlfriend before the Christmas photo together. First of all,

428
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall, do you agree with me? That sending nude

429
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: photos is cheating.

430
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 5: I agree with you.

431
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: I'm really surprised you said, I thought you were going

432
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 2: to take the other tech.

433
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: But explain to me. I mean, I would be I

434
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: think so.

435
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: Hurt to find out my husband's exchanging nude photos. First

436
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: of all, I wouldn't believe it. I think somebody is

437
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: stolen his phone and was doing it.

438
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 1: But that said, it's cheating, Okay, Nancy.

439
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 5: Not only is this cheating, but Taylor entered this relationship,

440
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 5: this marriage with Deborah thinking he could do whatever he

441
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 5: wants to do, and Deborah was in a double mind.

442
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 5: She's sent out to work, she's a nurse, she supports

443
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 5: the family, and all the time that she's out there working,

444
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 5: he's just brewing up a fantasy that she's cheating on him,

445
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 5: when in fact it's a projection because he's cheating on her.

446
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 5: I love what Shannon said about this is not just

447
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 5: about power. This is about ownership. He owns her and

448
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 5: he can do whatever he wants. Send her out like

449
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 5: a dog to work, the minute she gets home, go out,

450
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 5: have his own affair, or do whatever he wants to do.

451
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 5: He's highly manipulative and he's been grooming her for years,

452
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 5: that she is just an object to be used. I

453
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 5: also think, Nancy, that he is so vindictive. This is

454
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 5: a part of his personality and it comes out when

455
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 5: he's talking to the police. It's almost like he's.

456
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: Bragging about the knife.

457
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,239
Speaker 5: And I think one underlying component that we all need

458
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 5: to recognize about DV is that perpetrators everything hurts their feelings,

459
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 5: Everything makes them feel insulted, like they've been insulted by

460
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 5: the other person. So your story about the man who

461
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 5: beat his wife to a pault because she made tacos

462
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 5: rather than enchiladas, he probably.

463
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: Took that as a.

464
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 5: Personal affront, felt insulted, then felt diminished, then deflated, and

465
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 5: then went on the attack, because that is the classic pattern.

466
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 2: I want to go straight back out to Greg Morse

467
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 2: joining us please uncut his mic partner at King Morris,

468
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 2: veteran trial lawyer. I hope you've had time to think

469
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 2: about what you said, that he killed her because of

470
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 2: the way she reacted.

471
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: Would you like to clarify your opinion?

472
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 7: And with this premeditation stuff on these facts, everyone has

473
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 7: to make a lot of leaps of faith, and frankly,

474
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 7: it's just it's not there and what we know so far.

475
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 7: What I was saying is that when people have mental illness,

476
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 7: and this is a hard case. You know, you were

477
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 7: a prosecutor temporary insanity illness.

478
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 5: No, no, no, but I would.

479
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 2: Use the show, Nancy, all of your experts just made

480
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: my case for me.

481
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 7: I'd hire them in my case. Talking about how he

482
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 7: wants to control an act that would that would let

483
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 7: us believe that he made know. What I'm saying is

484
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 7: that this guy there's no domestic violence before. So if

485
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 7: he wants to control every aspect of our life, and

486
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 7: he's contrived and intentional, we're going to see police reports.

487
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 7: Generally we see this act out well before the murder.

488
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 10: In these cases, what we.

489
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 7: Have is mental illness doesn't just come with people in

490
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 7: white coats and screaming about aliens. It's very subtle. And

491
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 7: if this guy believed at the time that his wife's

492
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 7: reaction he was living in this alternate reality to him

493
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 7: that caused him to do this, well, you know, then

494
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 7: you have he wasn't thinking right and wrong in that situation.

495
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 7: There's no evidence whatsoever that this I was planning this.

496
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 7: Did he plan to buy the wine bottle before the

497
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 7: show and do I mean before the dinner so he

498
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 7: can hit her over the head with it. No, none

499
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 7: of that is there.

500
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: Did he planted under the law once again, you are

501
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: contorting the law to suit your purposes.

502
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: Again, that degree a premeditation is not required.

503
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: The only degree a premeditation can be formed in seconds,

504
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: by the time it takes him to walk in the

505
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: kitchen and get the wine bottle and come back.

506
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: That's the last time.

507
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: Plus he stabbed her forty times?

508
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,479
Speaker 1: Do I have to say, Jody Arias, do I have

509
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: to raise up that specter?

510
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: Jody Arias standing traumas Alexander twenty nine times then shot

511
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: him in the head, leaving him to decompose in the

512
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: shower's tall Just because you attacked someone multiple times does

513
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: not insanity make it makes you a killer, a cold

514
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: bloody killer.

515
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 7: That's what I started out with, that the act doesn't

516
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 7: make someone insane at all. The act is the outgrowth

517
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 7: of insanity. Sometimes when we have that killing someone, people

518
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 7: shooting up a school, that seems insane to all of

519
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 7: us because we wouldn't do it. But you know, under

520
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 7: the law, just because you did that doesn't mean you're insane.

521
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 7: You knew, right from wrong. You shouldn't have done it.

522
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 7: What my point is, Jodyarius didn't take pictures and send it.

523
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 7: Jodyarius didn't act like this was no case, and she

524
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 7: got caught. She yes, she took pictures and she.

525
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: Busted. She did take pictures.

526
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 7: No, I understand that. I completely understand that she did.

527
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 7: Look how this guy acted in this case with the police.

528
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 7: That's not how someone that intends to commit murder acts.

529
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 7: They just don't.

530
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: They don't do that fighting.

531
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: The police come in by knowing enough to barrickade the door.

532
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: More more evidence of guilt.

533
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: You know what, let me jog your memory as to

534
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: the real facts, not the facts in Greg Morrese's world,

535
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: but the actual facts from the police reports.

536
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 4: Meyer decides to try and turn things around in his

537
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 4: marriage by preparing a Valentine's Day dinner with a theme

538
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 4: bring Paris to You. Pulling out all the stops, Meyer

539
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 4: has their children draw pictures of the Eiffel Tower to

540
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 4: decorate the table, buys Deborah a beautiful new dress, and

541
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 4: orders food from their favorite Japanese steakhouse. After a lovely dinner,

542
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 4: he gives his wife a Valentine's Day card with a

543
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 4: personal message and they dance to their wedding song.

544
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 3: When the song ends and the dance is finished, Deborah

545
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 3: Meyer doesn't give her husband the reaction he wants, and

546
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: they begin to argue.

547
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

548
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 4: After hitting his wife in the head with a glass

549
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 4: wine bottle several times, Taylor Meyer says Deborah was unconscious,

550
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 4: but he wasn't sure if she was dead, so.

551
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 1: He went into the kitchen and got a quote.

552
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 4: Big knife, a long one, and came back to her

553
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 4: while she is laid out on the floor and stabs

554
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 4: her over and over again in the chest. All told,

555
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 4: the thirty six year old mother of three, Deborah Meyer

556
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 4: is stabbed forty times after being beaten in the head

557
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 4: with a wine bottle.

558
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: It is her.

559
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: Trial lawyer at a palm beach describing how the husband

560
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: in this scenario, now murder defendant. Taylor Meyer says to police,

561
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure if she was totally dead, so after

562
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: I beat her in the head with the wine bottle,

563
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: I went in the kitchen and got a quote his words,

564
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: not mine, big knife, a long one, and while she

565
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: laid on the floor, stabbed her over and over again

566
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: in the chest.

567
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: Joining me now is.

568
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: Renowned chief medical examiner from Terrance County.

569
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: That's fort Worth.

570
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,

571
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns. He's about to launch a hit podcast

572
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: called DOA Did on arrival April seven, Doctor Kendall Crowns,

573
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: could you describe what the victim endured after the first

574
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: blow with the thick end of a wine bottle?

575
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 11: Certainly so basically a bottle. When you're struck in the head,

576
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 11: the harder edge of the bottle will hit into your head,

577
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 11: causing contusions or bruises, tearing at the skin. Usually bottles

578
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 11: aren't heavy enough to break the skull, but they can

579
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 11: cause you to go unconscious or cause you to collapse.

580
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 11: You're going to have pain associated with that, headaches. But

581
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 11: if they beat you into unconsciousness, he's probably looking at

582
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 11: her still seeing she's breathing. I've seen that before where

583
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 11: they can't kill him with the wine bottle, so they

584
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 11: go switch up and find something else. He walked into

585
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 11: the kitchen, came back and then started stabbing where with

586
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 11: a knife. The fact that he stabbed her in the

587
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 11: chest over forty times, clustered all together is what we

588
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 11: call overkill. So she's obviously unconscious or subdued at that point,

589
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 11: and he just keeps stabbing her until she stops breathing.

590
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, after the first blow to the head

591
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: with a wine bottle, we have no evidence that the

592
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: wine bottle was broken, so that corroborates your theory as

593
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: to the nature of the first blow.

594
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: I believe, based on the fact the wine bottle.

595
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: Was still intact, that she was conscious and saw him

596
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 2: coming at her with a knife, lying there immobilized with

597
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: her children above her, asleep in bed, she sees her

598
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: husband approach her with a knife and the stabbing begins.

599
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: Is that scenario feasible, Doctor Kendall Crowns.

600
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 11: Yes, that is a possibility that she could still have

601
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 11: been conscious. She could have been trying to fake that

602
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 11: she was conscious. There's also a possibility that when he

603
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 11: beats her to the ground with the wine bottle, that

604
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 11: he could have jumped on her back, breaking her spinal column.

605
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 11: If the many possibilities, and that could leave her paralyzed.

606
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 11: And so she could still be conscious and see him

607
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 11: approaching with the knife and not be able to do

608
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 11: anything about it.

609
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: She was stabbed forty times for zero with a quote

610
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 2: big kitchen knife, quote eight long one. Obviously she died

611
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: from bleeding out. So explain to me if she was

612
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: not killed in the initial stabs, what would she have endured.

613
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 2: As she was stabbed repeatedly in the chest, So it's

614
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: going to.

615
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 11: Take her a few minutes to bleed out from the

616
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 11: stab wounds. So each stab wound that he is able

617
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 11: to deliver is going to cause pain from the cutting

618
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 11: of the skin and the sing of the organs with

619
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 11: the knife. And then the fact that she's being stabbed

620
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 11: in the chest and could collapse lungs making it difficult

621
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 11: for her to breathe. She could also be coughing blood

622
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 11: up and then swallowing the blood, so she's getting blood

623
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 11: in her mouth and hailing the blood, gagging while she's

624
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 11: being stabbed over and over, feeling the pain until she

625
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 11: finally bleeds out after a few minutes. Granted forty stab wounds,

626
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 11: he could probably deliver those in that entire timeframe that

627
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 11: it takes her to bleed out.

628
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 4: Officers are shocked to learn that husband Taylor Meyer took

629
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 4: pictures of his wife's lifeless body and sent it to

630
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 4: Deborah's friend and coworker, who called nine one one. Meyer

631
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 4: also texted his wife's family and friends, saying I killed

632
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 4: Debbie because she's a cheating, lying bitch. Meyer says wife

633
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 4: just didn't give a shit about the Paris themed date

634
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 4: he planned.

635
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 3: And Indiana man sent photos to an alleged lover after

636
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: a Balentine's Day dinner went sour. What's next for the

637
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 3: father of three?

638
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: Let me understand what I'm hearing that he actually tells

639
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: police that.

640
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: He murdered his wife because she quote just didn't.

641
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: Give it about his Paris theme dinner, and Christina Ohio

642
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: joining a Salem news channel. He wrote the relatives, sent

643
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: her relatives a picture of her bludgeoned, stamped body and

644
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: said I killed Debbie because.

645
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: She is a cheating line. Is that right?

646
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 6: Yes, that is correct.

647
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 3: He did that.

648
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 6: He sent it to the coworker saying it's your fault.

649
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 6: And what's interesting is while he was speaking to police,

650
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 6: all of it just revealed in the abba.

651
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: David, he was almost trying.

652
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 6: To get them on his side, like explaining, you understand right,

653
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 6: she did this to me. This was the hardest I've

654
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 6: ever tried, he said. And if The hardest you've ever

655
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 6: tried is buying address taking your wife out to dinner.

656
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 6: It's pretty indicative of how much effort you put into

657
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 6: the relationship over the last four years.

658
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: But he was.

659
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 6: Literally explaining to the cops like they were boys, like

660
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 6: they were friends. This is why I did it. Can't

661
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 6: you understand she did this to me?

662
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: She didn't care.

663
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 6: I worked so hard on the celebration and she just

664
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 6: didn't care.

665
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong, Christina, But I understood he

666
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: did not take her out to dinner that they ordered

667
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: delivery Japanese delivery.

668
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 6: Well, according to the what I read in the AffA David,

669
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 6: it wasn't clear on if they went out or ordered in.

670
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 6: It was that he got her a dinner from their

671
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 6: favorite Japanese steakhouse.

672
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: To go with their Paris theme night. Okay, uh, Doctor

673
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall, help me out here. I killed Debbie because

674
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: she is a cheating line.

675
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:37,439
Speaker 1: You know what?

676
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: He might as well fill that in with I killed

677
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: Debbie because she made tacos, not enchiladas. There's always a

678
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: reason why the woman deserves to be murdered. Have you

679
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: noticed that talks to agree with him? She's such a hoe,

680
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: she's a liar, she's a cheater. She goes on and on,

681
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: she did this, she did that, I had.

682
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: To kill her.

683
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 2: Well, they're going to agree, and even Father of the Year.

684
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 5: You know, Nancy. Probably what was happening leading up to

685
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 5: this too, was that he was calling coworkers and family

686
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 5: members and trying to recruit everybody to be on his side.

687
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 5: Because this just spills over when he starts to talk

688
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 5: to the police. He probably feels very beleaguered by her,

689
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 5: and it's very common for these types of men to

690
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 5: invest very little into the relationship but expect everything back

691
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 5: from the house, from the spouse. So he just orders

692
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 5: up a steak dinner, he doesn't cook. Perhaps he doesn't

693
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 5: even take her to the restaurant, buys her probably a

694
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 5: horror stress, makes her dance to the music. But he

695
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 5: expects all these accolades and all this praise from her.

696
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 5: So it's almost like when you ask your child to

697
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 5: set the table for dinner and they just do something

698
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 5: really small like set a plate down, they think they

699
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 5: deserve so much a praise because that's where they are developmentally. Well,

700
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 5: these domestic abusers are caught developmentally at that same phase

701
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 5: of life where they just invest the tiniest, teensiest little

702
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 5: bit and when they don't get all the praise they

703
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 5: want all help breaks lose.

704
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: To Greg Morse, believe it or not, I'm giving you

705
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: the final argument.

706
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: Hit me, well, it is.

707
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 7: This is not all of these factors and inferences you're

708
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 7: making to show premeditation. He's controlling, he's a domestic abuser.

709
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 7: So let's suppose there is no murder and we hear

710
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 7: this guy does this. It's just a story. A Paris

711
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 7: theme night. What a romantic thing he tried to bring

712
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 7: his wife Paris. How nice. So my point is he's

713
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 7: not acting like someone who planned this. If he was

714
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 7: aggressive in an abuser the whole night, when she leaves

715
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 7: for twenty minutes, why does she come back? You would

716
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 7: have seen signs of that. My point is, insanity can

717
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 7: come up below the surface and it can be there.

718
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 7: And having the appointment in three days lends me to

719
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 7: believe that this was not planned. This was something unless

720
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 7: you believe he planned the appointment to show that he

721
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 7: really loved his wife and was trying and tried to

722
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 7: set up an insanity the defense. But it's a horrible outcome.

723
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 7: It's a difficult case to defend. Don't get me wrong,

724
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 7: it is very challenging. But I think mental illness is

725
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 7: a lot more prevalent in relationships. And I've talked about

726
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 7: this on TV and cases I've had before, and this

727
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 7: is the outgrowth of it, and it does create This

728
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 7: guy was living in his own reality, you know.

729
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: Shannon Henry joining me present, founder of SAS Surviving Assault

730
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 2: Standing Strong. If what he just said was true, they

731
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 2: would empty out every jail in the country because everybody

732
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 2: would say I had a mental illness.

733
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: I was angry, that's right.

734
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 8: And she came back because she had kids there and

735
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 8: she's a good mom. His last attempt to get help

736
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 8: was to kill her. Hers was to go to therapy.

737
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 8: And I do want to say she was a nurse

738
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 8: to Greg. She was a nurse. She knew exactly what

739
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 8: was happening to her body when it was happening, and

740
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 8: he knew that she would understand that experience too. So

741
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 8: while he may not have physically hit her before this day,

742
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 8: and there may not be police reports, he abused her

743
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 8: for years by doing his best to break her down

744
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 8: with infidelity and isolation and insecurity, and by the way.

745
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 8: You can be depressed, you can be a psychopath, you

746
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 8: can be a narcissist without being an abuser. And I

747
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 8: want you to know I would never you would never

748
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 8: be able to hire me, and if I did come,

749
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 8: I would be honored to clarify that the abused women

750
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 8: endure at the hands of unprincipled lawyers like you is awful,

751
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 8: just awful, And shame on you for trying to make

752
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 8: it clear that this person is insane when he's clearly not.

753
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 8: He knew what he was doing from start to finish,

754
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 8: from the dress to the stabbing, and then he bragged

755
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 8: about it.

756
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,