WEBVTT - McMaster on New Book

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser from Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's get into a conversation on protecting our democracy. Just

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<v Speaker 1>eleven days away from the presidential election, Retired U. S.

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<v Speaker 1>Army Lieutenant General HR McMaster is with us. He's got

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<v Speaker 1>a book at Battlegrounds, The Fight to Defend the Free World,

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<v Speaker 1>He joins us on the phone from Stanford, California. UM,

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<v Speaker 1>it is so great to have you here with us.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to talk about the book, but I do

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<v Speaker 1>want to ask you General McMaster. First of all, how

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<v Speaker 1>are you and what's your world been like over the

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<v Speaker 1>last six to seven months amid the virus and the shutdown? Well? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>he thanks Carol. I I you know, I feel very fortunate.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we're in a good place here. We we uh,

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<v Speaker 1>we're able to draw in one of our daughters, my

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<v Speaker 1>son in law, and our twin grandsons, uh there with

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<v Speaker 1>us and and uh. And I'm one of the fortunate

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<v Speaker 1>few that can work remotely and teach remotely. I taught

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<v Speaker 1>a of course at the Graduate School Business here remotely,

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<v Speaker 1>had a had a great time doing it. Not as

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<v Speaker 1>good as in person, but but ortunately we've been able

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<v Speaker 1>to continue to interact with people at least on zoom

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<v Speaker 1>and so forth, and we feel very fortunate thanks for asking, Carol. General.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, when we think about our foreign policy, our

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<v Speaker 1>military role in the world post World War Two, it's

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<v Speaker 1>been a pretty consistent theme of internationalism too. For lack

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<v Speaker 1>of a better word, that seems to have taken aree

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<v Speaker 1>return and last four years, i e. Put America first again.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you view our kind of foreign policy and

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<v Speaker 1>our military positioning? How do you think it should be

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<v Speaker 1>in this world where there's not just where the Cold

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<v Speaker 1>War has been one, but now we have lots of

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<v Speaker 1>other issues, as you mentioned, including China, right, Paul, Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you. In Battlegrounds, I described this as a lack

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<v Speaker 1>of strategic confidence. We lack confidence in our ability to

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<v Speaker 1>implement a sustained, reasonable and sustainable foreign policy and approach

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<v Speaker 1>the national security. And I think hopefully what we've learned

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<v Speaker 1>from COVID nineteen is that threats that develop overseas are

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<v Speaker 1>belt best dealt with early. You know, once they reached

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<v Speaker 1>our shores, we could only cope with them at an

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<v Speaker 1>exorbitant price. And of course this was our experience in

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<v Speaker 1>not eleven as well. In connection with the threat from

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<v Speaker 1>Jehada terrorism. But what I'm afraid of, Paul, is that

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<v Speaker 1>we saw the ninety nineties as a period of of optimism,

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<v Speaker 1>over optimism, maybe even hubrious and complacency about threats that

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<v Speaker 1>we faced. And then in the two thousands, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we suffered a serious of strategic shocks, not eleven finanticipated

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<v Speaker 1>length and difficulty of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan,

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<v Speaker 1>the two thousand two nine financial crisis, and our confidence

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<v Speaker 1>now is shaken, and I think what we need to

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<v Speaker 1>do is restore our strategic competence as the first the

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<v Speaker 1>first step in restoring our competence, our confidence and in

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<v Speaker 1>our foreign policy and our ability to build a better

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<v Speaker 1>future for generations to come. But your book also deals with,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, us approaches to some of the challenges on

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<v Speaker 1>a global level that we have seen, and you say

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<v Speaker 1>specifically that resulted in missed opportunities that have left us

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<v Speaker 1>at a strategic disadvantage. And you get into it, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what have been our biggest missed opportunities in your view? Well, Carol,

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<v Speaker 1>these are these are missed opportunities associated with when are

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<v Speaker 1>describing the book of Strategic narcissism, our tendency to define

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<v Speaker 1>the world only in relation to us and assume that

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<v Speaker 1>what we decide to do or choose not to do

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<v Speaker 1>is decisive the favorable outcomes. And the problem with that

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<v Speaker 1>is we don't acknowledge our competition. We don't acknowledge that

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<v Speaker 1>others rivals, adversaries, enemies also have authorship over the future.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we define the world as we like it

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<v Speaker 1>to be. In connection with China, for example, we assume

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<v Speaker 1>that China, having been welcomed into the international community, would

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<v Speaker 1>play by the rules and as a prosper would liberalize

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<v Speaker 1>its economy and then and then ultimately liberalized its form

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<v Speaker 1>of governance. Well, China utter the Chinese Communist Party and

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<v Speaker 1>Fujianping is not doing that's doing quite the opposite. So

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<v Speaker 1>we needed to shift our policy can cooperation and engagement

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<v Speaker 1>to a more competitive approach. Three administrations in a row

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<v Speaker 1>harbored this illusion of a better relationship with Vladimir Putin,

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<v Speaker 1>UH and and the and then just reaching out the

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<v Speaker 1>Vladimir Putin would would almost have the effect as if

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<v Speaker 1>you were the grinch you all on Christmas Eve? Is

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<v Speaker 1>Hartwood growth two size is larger that he would stop

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<v Speaker 1>his campaign and sustained political subversion against us, And of

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<v Speaker 1>course that's not the case. And I think the deficiency

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<v Speaker 1>that's in common from China to Russia, to Iran to

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<v Speaker 1>North Korea to the problem of Johdahs terrorism is that

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<v Speaker 1>we don't acknowledge the agency that others have, and we

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<v Speaker 1>don't think enough about the ideology, the emotions and aspirations,

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<v Speaker 1>the driving constrained the other generally, master we have about

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<v Speaker 1>fifty seconds then we're gonna do some news and come back.

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<v Speaker 1>But I just want to just quickly ask you, who

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<v Speaker 1>do you think is our biggest threat right now? Is

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<v Speaker 1>it Russia? Is it China? Is it the Middle East?

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<v Speaker 1>Who is it? It's it's the policy these in actions

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<v Speaker 1>of the Chinese Communist Party and a very sophisticated campaign

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<v Speaker 1>of what I described in the book is co option, coercion,

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<v Speaker 1>and concealment. And so we have to be much more

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<v Speaker 1>effective and much more effective at defending against this campaign,

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<v Speaker 1>but also strengthening our competitive advantages so we and the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the free world can compete more effectively. General one,

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<v Speaker 1>I I could just take a quick look at Russia.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's been an you know, how do you view

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<v Speaker 1>their view of the world, and how we should counteract

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<v Speaker 1>that to the extent we need to. Is it better

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<v Speaker 1>to go against Russia with allies or go one on

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<v Speaker 1>one or two as this administration is trying to do

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of I guess curry some favor with this

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<v Speaker 1>Russian leadership. Well, hey, thanks, Paul. What I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>important to understand what's driving Vladimir Prutinent, because Vladimir Putin

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<v Speaker 1>is Russia's policy right now, and and what Prutent is

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<v Speaker 1>driven by is this sense of honor lost at with

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<v Speaker 1>the breakup of the Soviet Union and our victory, the

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<v Speaker 1>free world's victory in the Cold War. And what Putin

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<v Speaker 1>is determined to do is to restore Russia to national greatness. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, he doesn't have a lot of material to

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<v Speaker 1>work with. Of course, he has a huge, dangerous nuclear arsenal,

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<v Speaker 1>but his economy is about the size of Texas economy

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<v Speaker 1>or Italy's economy. So his theory of victory is to

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<v Speaker 1>drag everybody else down under the theory that he can

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<v Speaker 1>be the last man standing. And the way that he's

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<v Speaker 1>doing that is to polarize our societies with cyber enabled

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<v Speaker 1>information warfare directed against us. This is a this campaign

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<v Speaker 1>of of of disruption, disinformation, and denial. He wants to

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<v Speaker 1>he wants to against each other in a way that

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<v Speaker 1>reduces our confidence in our common identity within America, within

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<v Speaker 1>countries in Europe, across the EU UM and then and

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<v Speaker 1>then reduce our confidence in our democratic principles and institutions

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<v Speaker 1>and processes. And I think what is needed is is

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<v Speaker 1>a concerted effort to expose this behavior to i'll turn

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<v Speaker 1>this behavior, but then also to restore our confidence in

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<v Speaker 1>ourselves so that so that this this campaign doesn't have

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<v Speaker 1>the effect that it has been having on us. And

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<v Speaker 1>and to answer your question, it's best done obviously with

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<v Speaker 1>partners and with allies and and really fellow victims of

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<v Speaker 1>this aggressive campaign. When I described in Battle Rouns as

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<v Speaker 1>your Russian new generation warfare, and of course I don't believe,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't believe that that any kind of an accommodation

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<v Speaker 1>with with with Putin is going to happen. I think

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<v Speaker 1>taking a conciliatory approach is going to be futile. And

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<v Speaker 1>and the story that I tell in the book is

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<v Speaker 1>how three different administrations have got approached. You remember when

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<v Speaker 1>George W. Bush said he looked into prudent soul. Remember

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<v Speaker 1>when Secretary Clinton, you brought the reset button to Geneva

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<v Speaker 1>with lab Roth and prison. Obama leaned over and said

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<v Speaker 1>Tom ad bet If, who was keeping the seat warm

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<v Speaker 1>for prutent? Hey, you offer some more flexibility after the election.

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<v Speaker 1>And and we were threw missile defenses for example from Poland.

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<v Speaker 1>None of that worked. And and and uh and this

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<v Speaker 1>is why I think, you know, President Trump should should

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<v Speaker 1>come to this conclusion. You know, he's already laid to

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<v Speaker 1>the game on this that he's not going to be

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<v Speaker 1>a friend. You know, he's just not going to be

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<v Speaker 1>a friend. Well, and I do. I don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>get political. I don't want to point figures, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>fingers and you were, you know, national Security advisor from

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen so, you know, during the Trump administration. But I

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<v Speaker 1>do wonder you know what kind of signal it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of sent said sent to the world, um General McMaster

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<v Speaker 1>to see what seemed to be an alliance between the

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<v Speaker 1>commander in chief here in the United States and putin Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't in the line. So here's here's what I

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<v Speaker 1>think we have to do. First of all, the President

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<v Speaker 1>Stevens don't help, especially when he draws into into question

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that Russia has engaged in this sustained campaign

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<v Speaker 1>of subversion against us, did in fact attack the election.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that what we have to be, first

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<v Speaker 1>of all to to counter it. He just don't be

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<v Speaker 1>our own worst enemies. I mean, I tell the story

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<v Speaker 1>of Bottle Grounds about how both political parties in compromised

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<v Speaker 1>our principles so they could gain partisan advantage over the other.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a big mistake. I think the other important aspect

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<v Speaker 1>of this is to is to at least as we

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<v Speaker 1>look back at this that period of time and we

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<v Speaker 1>defend ourselves today that we don't either deny Russia's Russ's

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<v Speaker 1>attacks on us, for the President does some times to

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<v Speaker 1>time or say they determine the outcome of the election,

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<v Speaker 1>which we can't say either, right, and and so again,

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<v Speaker 1>I wish we would just work on this together and

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<v Speaker 1>recognize that what she really wants to do is reduced

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<v Speaker 1>our confidence. I don't I don't think you know. I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think they care you know, who wins our elections.

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<v Speaker 1>I think what they care is that the significant portion

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<v Speaker 1>of Americans doubt the legitimacy of the result. What's the

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<v Speaker 1>state of our cybersecurity in this country here, it's become

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<v Speaker 1>such a huge issue, particularly from the election onward. Right. Well, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you, Paul, it's much better. It's much better.

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<v Speaker 1>And and you know, I was I was happy to

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<v Speaker 1>have a hand in this, a small role in this,

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<v Speaker 1>and work in the together with the departments and agencies

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<v Speaker 1>to ensure that we're more effective in cyberspace. We can

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<v Speaker 1>compete more effectively in the recognition that a good defense

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<v Speaker 1>requires a good offense too, so so the authorities that

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<v Speaker 1>are cyber warriors have are much more significant. There's also

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<v Speaker 1>been very significant developments in terms of securing cyber infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no organization with very capable people who have worked

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<v Speaker 1>on that. They've worked on that in connection with the

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<v Speaker 1>election in particular, and as you know, we have a

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<v Speaker 1>very decentralized system. But but there are federal standards and

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of good collaborative work going on between

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<v Speaker 1>the states and between the federal government. So I think

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<v Speaker 1>we should have confidence in our election. Now. Offensive cyber

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<v Speaker 1>against infrastructure, that's still a very significant threat. Cyber enabled

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<v Speaker 1>information warfare, significant threats cyber enabled crime such as the

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<v Speaker 1>as AS ransomware that North Korea has become uh particularly

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<v Speaker 1>adept at. It is still a huge threat. So what

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<v Speaker 1>we need is a continuous effort because this is a battle.

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<v Speaker 1>The battle is not going to go away, right as

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<v Speaker 1>soon as we get better in one area, our adversaries

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<v Speaker 1>adapt and and and take on new techniques and develop

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<v Speaker 1>the capabilities. Well, we are definitely living in interesting times

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<v Speaker 1>and your book really takes us through um the regions

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<v Speaker 1>of the world that we really need to be sitting

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<v Speaker 1>up and paying attention to. Lieutenant General H. R. McMaster,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. US Army retired general, former National

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<v Speaker 1>security advisor on the phone from Stanford. Check out his book.

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<v Speaker 1>It is called Battlegrounds, The Fight to Defend the Free World.

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<v Speaker 1>And a really timely conversation