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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and welcome to stuff on ever

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Speaker 1: told your protection of iHeartRadio, And yes, unfortunately I am

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Speaker 1: still by myself. Don't worry, Samantha will be back, but

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Speaker 1: right now, due to scheduling and illness, you just get me,

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Speaker 1: which means I feel like I can run rampant, which

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Speaker 1: is fitting for the topic we're talking about today. I

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Speaker 1: originally mentioned this a few episodes back, where I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about this idea of who deserves to die,

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Speaker 1: and it was based on I had I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: had this in the back of my head for a while,

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Speaker 1: but it was based on a recent headline i'd seen

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Speaker 1: about the very bad movie Deep Lucy that I still

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Speaker 1: enjoy but is quite bad, and the original ending for it,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that more at the end. When

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Speaker 1: I was researching this, perhaps it won't surprise you, but

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Speaker 1: not too many people are writing about the feminism of

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Speaker 1: Deep Blue Sea. But I did find some other examples

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Speaker 1: and it kind of became a bit a bit bigger

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Speaker 1: than deserves to die, almost more like deserves redemption. And

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Speaker 1: that's a whole other trope of the you get redeemed

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Speaker 1: and then you die, but you don't do anything to

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Speaker 1: fix all of the harm that you did. Star Wars

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Speaker 1: is pretty bad about that one. But I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about this, and I have been on a bit

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Speaker 1: of a disaster movie. I've been watching a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: binging a lot of them. They were big parts of

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Speaker 1: my childhood. That being said, we have discussed horror movie

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Speaker 1: tropes that would fall under I would say the sort

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Speaker 1: of and heavy quotes deserves to die, like who is

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Speaker 1: the audience like, oh yeah, they deserve to go in

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Speaker 1: horror movies as often the slutty woman, the best friend

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Speaker 1: of the final girl, or the person of color, all

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Speaker 1: of which is pretty problematic. But that's not really what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about today. We have talked about that in

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Speaker 1: several episodes, so if you want to go check those out,

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Speaker 1: you can. I wanted to talk about more specifically in

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Speaker 1: the disaster film Arena, which because I'm by myself today,

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Speaker 1: this one's going to be a bit shorter and also

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Speaker 1: not as researched as we would normally do. I would

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Speaker 1: love to come back to it and get Samantha's thoughts

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Speaker 1: on this, but I do have a lot of thoughts

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Speaker 1: about it, and I have two maybe three main exist

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Speaker 1: samples of what I'm talking about, one of them being

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Speaker 1: Deep Lucy, which we will get we'll come back to,

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Speaker 1: don't you worry. But one of the big ones I

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Speaker 1: always think of is from Jurassic World. And I know

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Speaker 1: I've brought this up before. I am going to have

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Speaker 1: some criticisms of how women are portrayed in that movie.

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Speaker 1: If you like that movie, like I enjoyed it well enough,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, just just to say, I did have a

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Speaker 1: really funny, rousing conversation with me and a bunch of

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Speaker 1: friends about they're critiques of the movie and especially how

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Speaker 1: much of the dinosaurs are going for like cost wise.

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Speaker 1: They tell me that was nowhere near enough, and I

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Speaker 1: trust them. But yeah, when I saw that movie, because

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Speaker 1: I've said I was a huge fan of Durassic Park

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Speaker 1: and still am the first one. And then we have

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Speaker 1: an episode coming out about doctor Ellie Sadler and I

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Speaker 1: have a really funny update about those cards I was

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Speaker 1: brought about. But when I saw this movie, it was

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Speaker 1: I think I had been working on the show, and

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Speaker 1: I would have I was a feminist for sure, but

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Speaker 1: immediately I was like, I don't I feel like these

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Speaker 1: are some tropes that are pretty sexists that are happening here.

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Speaker 1: But one of the big things that really when I

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Speaker 1: was watching, I was like, this is unnecessary, and I

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Speaker 1: really don't like it is when I'm assuming I don't

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Speaker 1: have to break down the pot for all of you.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a park the dinosaurs. The dinosaurs genetically altered,

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Speaker 1: and then they escape and recavoc and there's just not

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Speaker 1: a lot of good infrastructure to get people out. But

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Speaker 1: it focuses largely on Claire played by Bryce Dallas Howard,

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Speaker 1: who we're talking about in a second, who is running

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Speaker 1: the park, and then Owen who's played by Chris Pratt,

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Speaker 1: who is like a dinosaur whisper dinosaur trainer, and the

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Speaker 1: fact that Claire has looked down on because she's a businesswoman.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't want kids again, more on that in a second.

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Speaker 1: But things go wrong, dinosaurs get out. This character named Zara,

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Speaker 1: who is the assistant of Claire, is tasked with watching

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Speaker 1: Claire's nephews when they visit, and it was sort of

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Speaker 1: an unexpected visit. Claire's sisters getting a divorce and it's

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Speaker 1: just like no good timing, but Claire great to do

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Speaker 1: it and then was really busy and then pass them

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Speaker 1: off to Zara, who is played by Katie McGrath, and

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Speaker 1: Katie McGrath's character is definitely in the same vein that

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Speaker 1: Claire's character is seen as like not a good person

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Speaker 1: because she's always on her phone, she's always busy, she's

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Speaker 1: not really paying attention to these kids, which again were

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Speaker 1: passed off on to her, and eventually the kids like

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Speaker 1: give her the slip and escape, and there is a

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Speaker 1: scene where once the dinosaurs break out, she is brutally

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Speaker 1: killed for like a long time. And when I was

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Speaker 1: watching the movie, I was like, oh my gosh, it's

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Speaker 1: still going. Oh my gosh, it's still going. I've read

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Speaker 1: she's the first woman to die on screen in Jurassic Park.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true, but that's what I read.

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Speaker 1: And it was such a long drawn out death and

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Speaker 1: it was kind of played as like almost for laughs,

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Speaker 1: or like, see, she should have done better at her

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Speaker 1: job and taken better care of these kids, and now

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Speaker 1: she's gonna get ripped up. So she gets picked up

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Speaker 1: by Pterodactyl's terroritive terror something of the flying dinosaurs. It

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Speaker 1: has dropped into the grasp of another dinosaur, like the

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Speaker 1: sea dinosaur and then so she's like thrown back and

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Speaker 1: forth between them. The flying dinosaurs is screaming, and then

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Speaker 1: it is dropped into the mouth of this sea dinosaur

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Speaker 1: and it just feels odd. It just feels very odd.

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Speaker 1: And it was in the trailer, and in fact, it

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Speaker 1: was a big part of the trailer, and one of

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Speaker 1: the trailers was titled Jurassic World Trailer to starring Katie McGrath.

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Speaker 1: And she's not really in it, like she's barely in it.

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Speaker 1: But her death, I guess, was supposed to be some

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Speaker 1: kind of representation of, oh, how gory this could be,

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Speaker 1: or and I believe we've bryce Dallas Howard says, oh,

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Speaker 1: she gets tortured, and the director, Colin Chevro says that

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Speaker 1: it's quote one of the all time dinosaur deaths in

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Speaker 1: a movie. Wow. Yes, But it just felt unnecessary, It

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Speaker 1: didn't feel a lot of people have compared it to

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Speaker 1: the Lawyer from the first one, the blood Sucking Lawyer,

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Speaker 1: but his death, even his death, while it was sort

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Speaker 1: of like drawn out, it wasn't drawn out like that one.

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Speaker 1: But two he had been shown to be not great,

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Speaker 1: like he abandoned the children, he didn't care about the

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Speaker 1: morality of any anything to do with the park. He

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Speaker 1: was very much like, I'm just going to protect myself.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't sympathetic at all. And the difference here is

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Speaker 1: her death scene is much longer. But also she does

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Speaker 1: feel bad that these children ran away from her when

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Speaker 1: she's doing her work, and she expresses that, but that's

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Speaker 1: not seen as sympathetic. She is not painted as sympathetic.

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Speaker 1: She's painted as someone we're supposed to kind of laugh

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Speaker 1: at when she dies, and her sin is she wasn't

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Speaker 1: caring for these kids, who again were not her kids.

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Speaker 1: She was not planning to take care of who ran

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Speaker 1: away from her, and therefore she must be punished. We

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Speaker 1: will revel in her death as the audience. She isn't

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Speaker 1: like mean to them. I mean, she's not like greatly developed. Again,

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Speaker 1: she's not in the movie that long, but she's not terrible.

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Speaker 1: But still it's painted as if, well, she deserved this,

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Speaker 1: she deserved this death. Being said, though, I am not

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Speaker 1: the only one who felt very jarred and disturbed by

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Speaker 1: this scene, there were a couple of quotes correlated by

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Speaker 1: culture war reporters from Reddit. Because there's a whole thread

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Speaker 1: dedicated to this scene. I guess here a few Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty horrifying. The character didn't even deserve it,

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Speaker 1: so there was zero satisfaction. It just left me feeling violated,

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Speaker 1: which I suppose it was meant to. Here's another yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess it logically works, but cinematically it was just

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Speaker 1: cruel and unnecessary. I thought maybe I was overacting to

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Speaker 1: that scene. It made me so uncomfortable. It was just

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Speaker 1: so extended. Most deaths and Jurassic Park series are quick

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Speaker 1: in adding to the thrill of the scene. This just

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Speaker 1: felt cruel. Glad to see I'm not alone in this opinion.

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Speaker 1: I asked my buddy what did she do to deserve

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Speaker 1: that death? And some people were pointing out, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the dinosaurs, that's what's going to happen. But going back

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Speaker 1: to that kind of like cinematically it doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: Comments of like, well, what message are we to take

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Speaker 1: from the fact that she's the one that gets this,

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Speaker 1: that she's sort of the inexpendable one, that we're supposed

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Speaker 1: to find some kind of joy or satisfaction in her death,

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Speaker 1: And it definitely made me uncomfortable. I remember watching the

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Speaker 1: scene and clearly it stuck with me where I was like,

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Speaker 1: why are we supposed to rejoice at her death? That's

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Speaker 1: just what it felt like to me. And I am

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Speaker 1: somebody I can admit, like, I'm not usually happy when

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Speaker 1: someone dies, even if they are not great. But it's

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Speaker 1: just the way it was so drawn out. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: she really wasn't in the movie that much to really

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Speaker 1: warrant that. That being said, I wasn't originally intending to

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Speaker 1: do this, but through this research I did find a

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Speaker 1: lot of commentary about Claire Ryce Dallas Howard's character, who

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Speaker 1: I also when I saw this movie, I was like, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: because she is such a trope. She is such like

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Speaker 1: an ice queen. She doesn't want kids, which is one

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Speaker 1: of the big points of the movie. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's meant to be a flip of Alan Grant, but

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Speaker 1: it feels super judgy where it didn't feel super judgy

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Speaker 1: with Alan Grant. It's like she's the lost sight of

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Speaker 1: what matters, like not wanting to be a mother is

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Speaker 1: inherently bad in this movie. From the Mary Sue quote,

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Speaker 1: from what we see, this woman with an entire park

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Speaker 1: to run, has multiple responsibilities across multiple divisions and gets

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Speaker 1: very little assistance, but has still agreed to take these

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Speaker 1: children as a favor for her sister during a divorce.

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Speaker 1: I would tend to agree that if you commit to

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Speaker 1: watching your sister's kids, you should put the phone down.

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Speaker 1: But it also seems like the weekend was pushed on

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Speaker 1: her rather than worked out with her schedule, and frankly,

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Speaker 1: Claire is dealing with this forced obligation as best she can. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: Claire is presented very early on as a bad person

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Speaker 1: of questionable morality because she has asked her assistant to

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Speaker 1: watch the boys while she goes to work. I certainly

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Speaker 1: didn't share Chris Pratt's look of shock and disgust when

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Speaker 1: she makes the horrific reveal that she doesn't know her

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Speaker 1: own nephew's ages. Yes, I remember that too. I was

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Speaker 1: looking around like, oh, no, that that may I'm a

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Speaker 1: terrible person, because it's very clearly portrayed that way. That's

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Speaker 1: the problem. It's like you can have these storylines of,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone who is too focused on their work

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Speaker 1: and meets someone who kind of shows them like, oh

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Speaker 1: what about this? But if she wants to do her work,

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Speaker 1: then yeah, it doesn't mean she's a horrible person because

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Speaker 1: she doesn't have kids, or doesn't know her nephew's ages.

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Speaker 1: But it is I remember that distinctly watching this, like, wow,

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Speaker 1: she is They really want me to think she's bad

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Speaker 1: for this. And also it's a problem of writing, which

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about a bit more. But she was just

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Speaker 1: such a trope. She would she was such a superficial

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Speaker 1: especially well I don't want to say that, but in

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Speaker 1: this one, which is the one we're focusing on, she

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Speaker 1: was very like the ice cream. That was her even

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Speaker 1: in her costuming. That was what she was. A quote

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Speaker 1: from the Mary Sue continues. Beyond that, Claire not having

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Speaker 1: children and claring she doesn't want children also isn't some

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Speaker 1: sort of fatal personality flaw. But Jurassic World clearly sees

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Speaker 1: it this way, believing the natural progression of women has

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Speaker 1: them of all to mothers, and those who don't have

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Speaker 1: that desire are somehow deficient of humanity. Despite claims to

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Speaker 1: the contrary, motherhood does not equal inherent goodness, and not

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Speaker 1: wanting to be a mother does not equal an inherent

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Speaker 1: lack thereof for women? What about the many women who

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Speaker 1: are unable to have children? Most importantly to the film,

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Speaker 1: And this is where Jurassic World is really offensive. Women

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Speaker 1: who choose to put their careers first and or foremost

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Speaker 1: are not doing it as a coping mechanism for what

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Speaker 1: is really lacking in their lives. I'm sure some are

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Speaker 1: as are many men, but many have a passion for

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Speaker 1: their work, which they want to put front and center,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't make them less of a woman or

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Speaker 1: less a part of the world around her. While Ellie

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Speaker 1: and Grant were discussing where their children would be part

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Speaker 1: of their future as an option, Claire's being told she

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Speaker 1: wants kids, that there is something wrong with her for

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Speaker 1: not feeling that way herself. Claire's own sister tells her

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Speaker 1: one day she'll settle down, as if the life she

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Speaker 1: has built is temporary, which might be the clearest piece

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Speaker 1: of evidence that this movie was written by four men. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just the the pressure throughout that she

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Speaker 1: must want kids. There's a several shots where she's looking

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Speaker 1: at kids with sort of a veiled belonging, which is

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Speaker 1: a fine plot point, but if you're if you're going

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Speaker 1: to do it, where in this like moral grounds of

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Speaker 1: like she's bad because she doesn't want that or might

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Speaker 1: not want that, that's not good. That's that's the issue,

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Speaker 1: and it is very, very very heavy handed. And how

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Speaker 1: it paints that she is just missing, she is lacking something,

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Speaker 1: she's just not complete and doesn't know it. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the galling parts of it, I think, and I've

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Speaker 1: heard that as a single person too, of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you just don't realize, so you just don't know, and

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Speaker 1: it's annoying and incorrect. Here's another quote from The Mary Sue.

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Speaker 1: As Marlow Stern wrote in his rather accurate review for

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Speaker 1: The Daily Beast, the only character development we get in

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Speaker 1: this movie is quote a woman's evolution from an icy, cold,

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Speaker 1: selfish corporate shill into a considerate wife and mother, as

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Speaker 1: if to say, don't worry, guys, that shrill boss lady

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Speaker 1: really just wants to find a sexist guy that will

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Speaker 1: teach her how to behave and awaken that biological clock. Sure,

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Speaker 1: her life's work is destroyed in Hundredstead, but she got

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Speaker 1: a man who can give her that baby all women

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Speaker 1: really want. Yeah, it is. When I was researching this,

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Speaker 1: which again wasn't what I really intended when I started

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Speaker 1: this episode, but I did find a lot of articles

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Speaker 1: about that, in particular of in disaster movies, painting women

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Speaker 1: as they are this the cold business woman or the

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Speaker 1: kind woman who wants a baby, which when I was

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Speaker 1: thinking about it was like, yeah, I can think of

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Speaker 1: a lot of examples of that. And then I found

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Speaker 1: a lot of articles about how all the dinosaurs are

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Speaker 1: female and men are the only ones who can tame them.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a separate episode, but that's interesting. And

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Speaker 1: then here is a quote from Media Owen, who's Chris

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Speaker 1: Pratt's character, knows no wrong. When a fly is buzzing

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Speaker 1: around Claire, Owen can slap it right out of the air.

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Speaker 1: While Claire gets nervous even being in a helicopter, Owen

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Speaker 1: rides a motorcy neck and neck with velociraptors. Nothing scares Owen,

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Speaker 1: not even violent man eating dinosaurs, because he is a

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Speaker 1: manly man. There's certainly nothing wrong with Claire's fear in

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Speaker 1: the face of a potential death via dinosaur, but her

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Speaker 1: fear is not used to create a sense of realism

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Speaker 1: or to pull the audience in. It's used to show

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Speaker 1: how heroic Owen is. Throughout the film, Claire is mostly

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Speaker 1: Owen's foil, and damn he looks good by comparison, In

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Speaker 1: one moment of the film, Owen is in need of

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Speaker 1: rescuing from a pterodactyl. Claire saves him by shooting said

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Speaker 1: flying reptile. We cheer because Claire reversed the roles and

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Speaker 1: saved him. However, this empowering moment is short lived, and

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Speaker 1: I mean very short lived. After being saved, Owen rises

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Speaker 1: to his feet and immediately kisses Claire as she's preparing

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Speaker 1: to say something. This move allows him to both assert

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Speaker 1: and regain power and control. Claire is reduced to a

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Speaker 1: blushing and embarrassed girl. Within seconds, Owen takes back his

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Speaker 1: gun and retakes his role as the alpha of the group.

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Speaker 1: So I thought that was interesting because in this very

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Speaker 1: same article they point out that again, this can be

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Speaker 1: done well, like it can be done where you have,

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Speaker 1: in one way or another kind of the the woman

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Speaker 1: who's never been in the jungle and the guy who

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Speaker 1: knows everything about the jungle. But the key to it

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Speaker 1: is that they're learning from each other, and you're not

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Speaker 1: necessarily making one more the butt of the joke than

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Speaker 1: the other. She's clear, and this is consistently the butt

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Speaker 1: of the joke. We're supposed to mock her like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's never gotten dirty before, all of these kinds of things,

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Speaker 1: And again that can be funny like that, that can be.

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Speaker 1: But if it's done in sort of this very soon

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Speaker 1: official sexist way and meant to make the male character

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Speaker 1: look way better, then that's that's the problem. As I

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Speaker 1: thought this was interesting, I hadn't really thought about this,

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Speaker 1: but I found this quote from Refinery twenty nine. The

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Speaker 1: original Jurassic Park stands out among action films largely because

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Speaker 1: its protagonists weren't regular action heroes. They were scientists, cool ones, sure,

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Speaker 1: but not the kind of people you would expect to

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Speaker 1: be running around to juggle fighting off massive and dangerous creatures.

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Speaker 1: And what's more, they didn't so much solve the problem

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Speaker 1: with violence as they deduced a creative solution and implemented it.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Goldbloom may have reached peak Internet icon status in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, but can you imagine him holding up an

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Speaker 1: action franchise a la Bruce Willis. Sam Neil has kind

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Speaker 1: of a rugged appeal, but he's not rambo. He's not macho.

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Speaker 1: If anything, he's a nerd who's just so excited to

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Speaker 1: be around his long lost monsters. And he and Ellie

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Speaker 1: were equal and professional partners above anything else. Now fast

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Speaker 1: forward to Jurassic World, and our hero looks very different,

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Speaker 1: like one hundred pounds of muscle different. Owen Grady is

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Speaker 1: a former marine turned dinosaur trainer who, as we see

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Speaker 1: in the beginning of Fallen Kingdom, enjoys building himself log

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Speaker 1: cabins and living out of his car. He's the kind

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Speaker 1: of hero who needs a love interest in order to shine,

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Speaker 1: to redeem him as a hulky man with a heart

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Speaker 1: of gold. Every shot of him is meant to emphasize

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Speaker 1: how good he looks in his very fitted pants. We're

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Speaker 1: supposed to admire his muscular arms, his ability to ride

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Speaker 1: motorcycles alongside raptors, his rough stuble, not his intellect. I

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Speaker 1: think that's a good point, because a lot of the

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Speaker 1: things that have really resonated with me when I look back,

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Speaker 1: it's not the like I do love a superhero movie.

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Speaker 1: You don't get me wrong, you all know that. But

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Speaker 1: when it comes to this, I do like when it's

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Speaker 1: not your super bulky, traditional stereotypical man, uh who is

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Speaker 1: the hero. I like when it's scientists who are thrown

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Speaker 1: in this situation or whatever it is, and it did

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Speaker 1: kind of flip it where he's definitely the hero, she

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Speaker 1: is the villain. And when you talk about like we

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Speaker 1: we briefly discussed John Hammond in the original Jurassic Park,

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Speaker 1: who we sympathize with, who is humanized. There has been

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Speaker 1: some conversation about whether or not he should have been,

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Speaker 1: but he was. And Claire, who's sort of assuming that

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Speaker 1: role in this one, is very much not, very much

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Speaker 1: not and is not doesn't have a satisfying redemptive arc.

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Speaker 1: I would say she does do in the in the sequels,

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Speaker 1: she does do some things, but it's it doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: this could go back to the writing, but it just

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Speaker 1: feels like, well, why did you do that? Then? If

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Speaker 1: now we're having to solve this, that's a whole different thing.

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Speaker 1: That's a whole different podcasts. But yeah, just the different

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Speaker 1: treatments we got in the first of the Jurassic World

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Speaker 1: series versus the first of the Jurassic Park series of

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Speaker 1: John Hammond versus Claire is quite different. But yes, this

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Speaker 1: brings us to Deep Blue Sea, which I really did

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Speaker 1: not think I was going to find anything written about this,

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Speaker 1: but I did listeners. So as I discussed recently, in

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Speaker 1: a recent classic, I got this headline show up in

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Speaker 1: my feed that there was a petition for the original

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Speaker 1: ending of Deep Blue Sea to come out. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't seen it, yeah, it's not very good, but I

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Speaker 1: enjoy it. It's about a woman named Susan who is

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Speaker 1: trying to cure Alzheimer's and for some movie science reason,

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Speaker 1: that means experimenting on sharks and their brains in particular,

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Speaker 1: and of course it goes wrong, and ultimately it culminates

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Speaker 1: in a lot of people dying in their team and

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Speaker 1: then her sacrificing herself and dying. And I always thought

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Speaker 1: the ending was sort of off. I was always like, huh,

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Speaker 1: I feels a little out of left field. It turns

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Speaker 1: out I was onto something, because in the original ending,

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Speaker 1: she survives, she has to kill the shark herself, and

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Speaker 1: she does, and it's much more of a redemptive like

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Speaker 1: I realized my mistake, I will take care of it,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to her dying in this way, which was

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Speaker 1: pretty graphic, and she doesn't have like I feel, going

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Speaker 1: back to what I said at the top, when I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about like you get redemption and then you die,

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Speaker 1: it's not that because I feel like with the men

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking of when I think of that had a

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Speaker 1: long time to get that redemption, like three movies at least,

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Speaker 1: she did not have that. So it was she just

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Speaker 1: kind of died and very unceremoniously. No one seemed to care. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But the directors said the reason they changed the ending

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Speaker 1: was because the audience was like, no, that has to die,

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Speaker 1: and that's the inspiration of this whole episode. So I

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Speaker 1: do have some quotes about this. Here is one from

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Speaker 1: Girl Type. In the film, doctor Susan McAllister played by

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Speaker 1: white British actress Saffron Burrows, develops a cure for Alzheimer's

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Speaker 1: disease using the chemicals and the brains of genetically altered

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Speaker 1: giant sharks. Burrows possesses fashion model looks and seeing the

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Speaker 1: obvious candidate for romantic subplot with Carter Blake played by

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Speaker 1: white actor Thomas Jane, the shark wrangler with the cowboy

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Speaker 1: attitude and boyish good looks. However, she turns down his

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Speaker 1: friendly offer to share beer, saying primly it's all worked

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Speaker 1: for me Carter. Susan's sexual reluctance has been established, and

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Speaker 1: the film goes on to characterize her as frigid, cold

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Speaker 1: and calculating. Welcome to my parlor, she says coldly when

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Speaker 1: everyone enters her laboratory. Susan is a black widow, a

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Speaker 1: spider woman close to being Villa and I simply because

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Speaker 1: she is an ambitious scientist and isn't attracted to the

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Speaker 1: leading man. And this essay was really interesting because it

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Speaker 1: broke down a lot of a lot of the pieces

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Speaker 1: of this movie. But one of the other things was

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Speaker 1: the other woman who's in this group, because the main

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Speaker 1: group just had two women, Janis and Janice of course

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Speaker 1: blame Susan. So here's a quote Sepid she cries at Susan,

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Speaker 1: setting up their oppositional relationships within the film. These two

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Speaker 1: characters represent a dichotomy of femininity, powerful unfeeling an over

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Speaker 1: emotional weak victim, which is something we see a lot.

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Speaker 1: I often think of alien when I think of this psychotomy.

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Speaker 1: But it also goes back to what I was saying

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Speaker 1: earlier that that seems to be maybe not quite the same.

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Speaker 1: But your business woman ice cream and your loving mother,

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Speaker 1: like those are your two options? Which one so the

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Speaker 1: quote goes on. The next to go is Janice, who

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Speaker 1: by this time is a total basket case. She falls

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Speaker 1: off a ladder and into the water, thinks to weak

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Speaker 1: arm muscles, and splashes around, screaming for Carter to save her.

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Speaker 1: She is suddenly jerked under the water by a shark,

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Speaker 1: and the rest of the gang momentarily mourns her loss.

427
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: Then she rises up again, arms outstretched in a weirdly

428
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: graceful pose like a single nchronized swimmer. Her legs are

429
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: wrapped in an equally posed way around the shark's vertical snout,

430
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: but its jaws are locked over her crotch. Janis screams

431
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: and bleeds and gouts, but stays carefully positioned like a

432
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: ballet dancer as the shark attacks her between the legs. Amazingly,

433
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: the shot of her emerging from the water like this

434
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: is shown twice, but once from the side so we

435
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: can see where she has been bitten, and again from

436
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: above so it can see her anguished face, slow mow

437
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: bobbing breasts, and the shark's teeth locked over her pelvic area.

438
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: Needless to say, I was astounded and disturbed by this image.

439
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: Not only are the women's helplessness, weakness, and hysteria treated

440
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: as normal feminine characteristics, but she dies as a prettily

441
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: posed sex object. The shark gruesomely attacks her vagina, her

442
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: biological difference from men, and the film glories in the

443
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: image with elaborate camera work, slow motion and repeated shots.

444
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: In a later scene the gang's floors, janisis quarters looking

445
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: for batteries for their flashlight. Jan was a healthy girl.

446
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: Something in here has to run on batteries, says secondary

447
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: white male Scoggins, the goofy member of the gang. Where

448
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: would a girl keep her vibrator noise thing? I was

449
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: outraged that even in death, Janie got reduced to a

450
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: dirty joke, reduced to nothing but her vagina, yep, yep.

451
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: And I did want to come one day when Samantha's better,

452
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: I'd want to come back to this of the history

453
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: of in disaster movies, movies and horror movies in general,

454
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: of women getting consumed by monsters while naked or somehow

455
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: skimply cloud or are sexy or something like that, and

456
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: what that says. But in the meantime, the quote continues,

457
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: Susan is also degraded sexually. She gets trapped by a

458
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: shark and has to electrocute it. With a nearby car

459
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: of wires. She strips to her underwear and stands on

460
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: her wet suit to insulate herself from the electrical charge.

461
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: Shivering and pissed off, she cowers in her tiny white

462
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: bra and panties as a flailing shark, flames and sparks

463
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: go everywhere. The scene may be a homage to Sigourney

464
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: Weaver's stripped teas at the end of Alien, but in

465
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: this case I was especially angered. Susan is forced to

466
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: strip to survive. It says if the movie is punishing

467
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: her for her earlier denial of Carter and gloating while

468
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: she suffers wet and miserable, and that I will admit,

469
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: as much as I have had my questions of this movie,

470
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: which I don't know how to feel about, I always thought,

471
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, oh, they feel like they have to put

472
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: in this scene, very degraded scene of the woman stripping down.

473
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: But that is a good point that she turned down

474
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: and this offer from your hot action hero guy, and

475
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: now here she is almost says punishment and then going

476
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: to the ending. So at this point we've got three

477
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: survivors from the main group. We've got ll cool j

478
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: the action hero Guy and Susan, and the shark is

479
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: trying to get free, and they're like, we cannot let

480
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: this shark free, and action hero Guy jumps in the water,

481
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: but the shark is coming for him. He jumps in

482
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: the water to like, I don't know stuff the shark,

483
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 1: and Susan decides she is going to draw the shark's attention,

484
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,479
Speaker 1: so she cuts her hand and says come to mama

485
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: and jumps in the water. And here is our final

486
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: quote about that. The shark approaches her, regards her blankly

487
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: for a long moment, and then gobbles her up in

488
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: three very separate floody bites. The film pauses deliberately before

489
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: picking off Susan, and the subsequent destruction of the shark

490
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: is like an anticlimactic afterthought. When Preach Hell, Cool Jay's

491
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: character fires a lethal explosive charge, he whispers, this is

492
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: for Scoggins. Scoggins, Susan is the one who sacrificed her

493
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: life to help kill the shark. Scoggins was comic relief

494
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. Yet Susan doesn't even get a hero's memorial.

495
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: She's nothing but fish food to the sharks and her companions.

496
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: I felt cheated by Susan's death and saddened by how

497
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: little the surviving characters cared about her. So yeah, I

498
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: think that speaks to what we've been talking about, is

499
00:33:53,840 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: she wasn't very fleshed out, she wasn't given and a

500
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: lot of moments for sympathy or redemption, where as a

501
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: lot of male characters like John Hammond were are. But

502
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: it also is a very very fair point that the

503
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: shark's death is seemingly lesser than her death, Like she

504
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: deserved to die more than that shark. And you can

505
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: make your arguments about that, because she was, you know,

506
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: ethically doing these experiments on sharks that caused this whole thing,

507
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: but she did want to make amends and she was

508
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: trying to And the fact that we're more supposed to

509
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: be more jubilant that she died rather than this shark

510
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: is not the most It's not the most fun thought

511
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 1: I and I do again. I say this as someone

512
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: who really doesn't get joy out of death and a

513
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: lot of media, but uh, this is always always stuck

514
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: out to me. And when I read that headline, like

515
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: I said in that classic where I first mentioned this,

516
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: I was like I knew it. I knew it just

517
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: fell off, and I, uh, yeah, I had forgotten that

518
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: they that they sort of just immediately forget she died,

519
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, this is Fris Coggins. So her death

520
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 1: felt kind of meaningless. All it was was like, yeah,

521
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: she deserved to die, Let's move on. And I do

522
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: think there is a conversation to be had about, you know,

523
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: responsibility and her taking responsibility for what she did. But

524
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: I just feel very strongly this was punishing an ambitious

525
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 1: woman who wasn't into the lead man, and so we

526
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: were supposed to level in it as opposed to all

527
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: of the redemptive arcs we grant men who are more

528
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: fleshed out in terms of character. But yeah, it's also

529
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: I know some of you are probably scratching your red

530
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: and like why are we talking so much about this

531
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: bad shark movie? But it matters. The stuff we consume matters,

532
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: And I was curious, So I was pretty sure I

533
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: knew why, but I was curious why they changed the

534
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: ending go when I read it, and I was like, oh, yep,

535
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: that makes total sense that the audience were like, yeah,

536
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 1: just kill her, we don't want to have to deal

537
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: with her, and you ought to like her. I get

538
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: a lot of parts she wasn't very likable, but that's

539
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,479
Speaker 1: part of the issue. I don't know, maybe I'm talking

540
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: to myself in circles. I do have other episodes coming

541
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: up about Jurassic Park and some other disaster things disaster movies.

542
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, please let me know if you

543
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: have any thoughts on this. I don't know if I'm

544
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: the only one out there, clearly not. I can't believe

545
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: I've held some great essays about it, but I would

546
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: love to hear from all of you. Hopefully, Samantha, we

547
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: miss you. I don't know if y'all ever listen to this.

548
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: I feel again. I feel like I'm a child who's

549
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: gotten free and can do whatever I want. But we

550
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: hope you feel better soon, and yes, listeners. In the meantime,

551
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: you can contact us. Our email is Stephanidia Momsteff at

552
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at

553
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast and on Instagram and TikTok at Stefan

554
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: never told you. We have a tea public store. You

555
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: can get merchandise there. We have a book you can

556
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: get it at stuff You should Read Books dot com.

557
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: Thanks is Alwis to our super producer Christina, our executive

558
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: producer Maya, and our contributor Joey, And thanks to you

559
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: for listening. Stuff I'll Never Told You is production of

560
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,

561
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: you can check out the Heart Radio Apple podcast or

562
00:37:52,160 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: if you listen to your favorite shows