WEBVTT - Ep 22 Belladonna will dilate your mind: Crossover w/ IDOP 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:29.440 Hi, Hi, I'm Aaron Welsh and I'm Aaron Allman. 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:38.840 Updyke, Hi, I'm Matt And this is a crossover episode 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:40.320 with this podcast. 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.240 Will Kill You and in Defensive Plants. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.280 Yes, we're very excited. But yeah, it's great because today 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.520 we're gonna be talking about another. 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.240 Poison Poison Cast part two. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.440 Yes, so if you haven't listened to part one, which 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:59.720 is called Don't tread on Me, Don't tread on My Monk's. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:04.520 Thanks guy, that was great. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.080 You're welcome to go listen to it. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:07.479 It's great. 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:11.000 It's super fun, both cannon and standalone. 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:13.200 That was super nerdy. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:20.560 Well, you know that's welcome to the show. So we 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:22.319 have a quarantine. 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:26.720 What are we drinking? We are drinking throwing deadly nightshade? 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:30.960 Cheers, cheers. 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:34.640 What is in throwing deadly nightshade? 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:40.720 So this is made with gin, blueberry puree, lemon juice 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:42.080 and elderflower liqueur. 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.360 And it's really and I don't know if it's just 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.480 the theme. I haven't seen your other quarantinies, but you 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:50.840 always make me the most beautiful. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.200 We did have a really last Yeah, no, this is 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.520 gorgeous and we wanted to make this one look a 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.000 little bit like the Deadly night Shade. The work very care, 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.440 hence the blueberry. Maybe it is. 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.560 Luckily I made them just like one big one, so 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:11.040 we'll all die. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.480 Unless someone has developed a tolerance foreshadowing. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.280 Because what are we talking about today, Matt, As you 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:19.160 take a sip, we. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.079 Are talking about Deadly Nightshade a Tropa bella Donna. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.200 Yes, I'm really excited about that, like I am. I 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.040 can't wait to talk about this and learn about it. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.440 It's all she's been talking to me about how excited 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.240 she is. It is true the whole day, like, just 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.239 hold it in, don't tell me anything. It's got to 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:37.160 be all fresh and new. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.120 I'm sorry you have to. I didn't see any of 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.880 you leading up to this for a while, so I 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.919 was just safe in my own brain. 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.320 You were just bribing with excitement over on your. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.880 Own Like, I don't know if I'm more excited for 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.280 all of the cool information I learned or the detective 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.080 work finding that information. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.840 I'm proud of this one cool can't That makes me 0:02:57.880 --> 0:02:58.320 even more? 0:02:58.760 --> 0:02:59.680 I'm intrigued. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.840 So we should we should jump right in, I guess so. 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.600 In our first crossover episode on Poisons, we talked a 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:29.200 lot about how there's this fine line between poisons and medicine, 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.760 and that these plants can be viewed as medicinal or 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:36.920 poisonous depending on who's administering the treatment, how much they know, 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.320 and most importantly, what their intentions are. 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.120 Yeah, what was your little spiel that you did? Are 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.880 you a physician or a poisoner pretender? 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:51.720 Are a magician or Yeah? It's very contraved, But but 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.480 I believed you. Yeah, that's the important thing. I'm the 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.920 magician here. But anyway, so yeah, so today we're going 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:00.760 to return to this theme a little bit with a 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.520 trope of belladonna, which is, as Matt Menton mentioned, the 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:09.400 scientific name for a plant also known as belladonna, deadly nightshade, 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:16.360 beautiful death dwall or duale duay, berry, baine wart, Devil's herb, 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:22.599 good Lord, Devil's cherries, Devil's berries, murderers berry, sorcerers berries, 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.960 Oh my god, which is berry poison, black cherry, death cherries, 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:32.520 and my absolute favorite, naughty man's cherries. 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.920 That makes two of us almost the name of our quarantine. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.160 Yes, I didn't want to drink that though. 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.520 Wow, that is a very long list of names. 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.240 I mean you know, I don't find common names to 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.560 be terribly useful, but when you see that many for 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.320 one plant, it's done some stuff over the years. 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:54.280 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:56.760 I mean, yeah, that's a really good point actually, kind 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.320 of like how the only ants with common names are 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:00.280 the ones that get into your. 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:06.680 House, right Ah yeah, God, so smart. But that is 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.320 a really good point, because, yeah, this is a serious 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:11.560 plant we're talking about, and so it makes sense that 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.360 it has all of these different names, and it was 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.680 really important to designate this plant as being distinct from 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.279 other plants that either looked like it or were in 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:24.920 the same family of poisonous plants. So okay, just listing 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.520 these names for belladonna, we can see that there might 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.680 not be as much of a divide between good and 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.520 evil and public opinion of this plant as there were 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:39.480 for Monkshood or wolf Spain. But it's kind of funny 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.080 actually to me that the name seems that the name 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.279 that seems to have stuck with this plant for the 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:48.480 longest is belladonna, which describes one of the more innocuous 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.160 uses of the plant. And I know that you're all 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.880 you might know this already, but if in case you don't, 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:57.599 you might. Everyone might be dying to know. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.200 I'm sure you're dying. I didn't notice until very recently. 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.360 Okay, so well, basically, some writer in the fifteen hundreds 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.840 described how Venetian women would put drops of Bella donna 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.160 tincture or juice or something into their eyes to make 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.600 them appear deeper and darker and sexier by dilating the pupil. 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.880 Which we'll talk a lot more about, but like what 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.640 the heck people were like, you got to have that 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:24.160 big old pupil. It's beautiful. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.279 I was missing something until you and that just. 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:33.440 It's why you haven't yet won America's next top model, 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.120 and your pupils aren't dilated enough. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.520 Yeah, and that well. Also, women would apply it directly 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:40.880 to their cheeks to give it a rosy glow, like 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:42.200 the juice from the berries. 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.640 Like the bas Yeah, we'll talk about it all right, 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.359 but so then anyway, So because it was used for 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.040 these reasons, it earned the name Bella donna, which is 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:54.440 Italian for beautiful woman. 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.520 But before it was used as a beauty enhancer, it 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:02.080 had much more sinister associations. Let's start back at the beginning. 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.200 A trope of belladonna and I'm just gonna call it 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:10.440 Belladonna great Okay, was definitely known to the ancient Greeks, Roman, Scots, 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.240 and probably many other cultures since it is pretty widely distributed. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.280 Its genus name a Tropa actually comes from a Tropos, 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.360 which is one of the three fates with a capital F. 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.520 So you may remember these fates from Disney's Hercules. 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:29.080 That's the only way I know, as. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.480 They all shared an eyeball and one of them had 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:32.560 scissors and would. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.160 Go and then you're dead, and you're dead. Yeah. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:39.240 So in Greek mythology, these three goddesses determine the fate 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.880 of every mortal and god, so even. 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.880 Zeus feared that's a powerful yeah. 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.239 Yeah. One of these goddesses would spin the thread of life, 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.840 another would measure it out and shape it, and the 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.360 third would decide when it would be cut. This third 0:07:56.400 --> 0:08:01.560 goddess was known as Atropos, the inflexible or immutable, or 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.120 she who may not be turned aside. Wow, yeah, I 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.680 love it, and it's yeah, it's it's pretty appropriate for 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.960 these these plants who are in the genus, because a 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.680 lot of them can cause you to not return to life. 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.720 What a nice way of saying they'll kill you. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:26.040 Yeah, borrowing from the ancient name of this plant, a tropa, 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.200 and it's more recent, more innocent name, balladonna, Linaeus decided 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.760 to name the plant a trope of balladonna, so it 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:33.880 kind of has us both. 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:36.960 Yeah, it's to it, which is amazing. You know, you 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.000 look at synonyms and the amount of revisions plants have 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.600 gone through to have Linaeus give it one and stick 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.520 this whole time. Either people are really into that idea, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:48.719 like why would you want to such a name, or 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.880 it just good job. Linaeus is your taxonomic Yeah. 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:54.040 It is a good name. Though. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.120 It's a great name because it's like, okay, it tells 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.120 you everything. Not everything, but it tells you a lot 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.240 about what you need to know about this plant, right 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.400 sort of this, yeah, right up front, it'll kill you. 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:05.280 It'll make you pretty, You'll make. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:11.640 It pretty conflicted. Beauty is pain. Pain is beauty. While 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.840 belladonna was used in ancient times as a poison, such 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.400 as for poison tipped arrows, or by King Duncan of 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.800 Scotland to poison an invading army of Danes so Macbeth 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.440 and company could slaughter them in their sleep. It was 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.679 also used in rituals. One of the more infamous of 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.480 these rituals was the celebrations held by the followers of 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.800 the cult of Dionysus, who is the Greek god of 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:41.160 wine fertility. Yes, cheers to that ritual, madness, et cetera. 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.800 The followers would apparently mix belladonna into wine, so they 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.480 would have these crazy wild trips and lose some or 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.480 all of their sexual inhibitions. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:53.199 Wow. 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.640 So it was like all of these like orgies, these 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.640 like ancient Greek gorgeous is what sort of helped brought 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:06.000 to you by by belladana. A side note, like on 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:12.720 that plant identification through ancient texts is a little difficult, right, They. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.760 Were actually just eating blueberries and they were like, no, no, 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.360 I swear, I feel totally different. Let's do it. 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:24.800 Well, okay, but it is there. Just blame it on 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:25.400 the blueberries. 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:26.160 There. 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.640 There are a lot of different plants that can cause 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.720 symptoms that are similar to this or like this or whatever, 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.640 and so yes, it may have been attributed to this plant, 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.120 but it could have been hen's bane, it could have 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.240 been mandrack, it could have been something else. So we 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:44.520 don't know exactly. But definitely, Bella donna was used and 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.000 identified and known about in ancient times, so it's a 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.080 strong candidate. I just wanted to, you know, say that. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.840 But regardless of whether belladonna was used in orgies or 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.640 to poison your enemies or husband, all ancient writings about 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.959 the plant are full of dire warnings about its extremely 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:07.160 dangerous nature. Yeah, always came with this like warning warning, 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.040 don't grow it, don't eat it, don't plant it, just 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.720 get it, get rid of it. And so there doesn't 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.840 really seem to be a lot of healing done by 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.439 the plant during this time. Okay, In the Middle Ages, 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.960 belladonna started to be called deadly nightshade and its reputation 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.200 for occult rituals grew. Stories from this time say that 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:32.320 the devil himself was responsible for cultivating and tending to 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.160 the plant, and the only day he forgot to do 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:42.880 this was Walpurgis Knocked, which is also known as it's 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.960 also known as Saint Walpurgis Knight, So Saint Walpurgis Knight. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.320 I'm probably pronouncing this wrong. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:49.960 I was like, are you saying this as if we're 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.280 supposed to know what it is, we're about to tell 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:59.960 you what was your costume? 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.120 It takes place on April thirtieth every year to commemorate 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:09.720 Saint Wolpurgis. You all know, right, Yeah, well she was 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:16.040 an eighth century abbess who battled pest, rabies, whooping cough, 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:16.920 and witchcraft. 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:17.760 Oh I love her. 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.679 Oh well, she did it all time, except. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.079 The witchcraft thing, like, just let that be. 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:25.400 I know it right, well, everyone. 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.040 Both for and against me. On this night, which is 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.600 also witches Night, all the witches would gather to wait 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.000 for the arrival of spring, and some of them would 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:38.880 go to this mountain where they would wait to meet 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.080 or lay with the devil. So this is according to 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:42.839 stories from the time. 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:43.720 I want to go to this party. 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:50.640 Yeah, this one, well you might end, sorry to say. 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.680 Let me let me just finish this part here. So, 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.920 according to these stories, the plant that the devil had 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.960 forgotten to tend would turn into a beautiful but day 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.480 dangerous woman who would enchant you against your will. 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:04.199 Why is it always a woman? 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:06.200 Yeah, it is so. 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:06.920 Darn and chanting. 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.280 A trope of Bella Donna was also allegedly used by 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:16.079 witches and wizards who would So, Matt, if you're going 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:17.760 to go to this party. Just this is what you're 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:19.120 going to have to do. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:25.559 Aaron just tinted her hands in a very serious way. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.120 It was great. 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:35.640 Yes, Matt listened closely, Matt, Matthew. Witches and wizards would 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.040 rub a mix of this plant, along with a few 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:44.160 others like hemlock and crazy other ones, onto their thighs 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.319 and genitals before setting off on their broomsticks. 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:52.200 I'm out, I'm out, I'm out when the sticks come out. 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.240 Seriously, your thighs, thighs and genitals. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:13:59.840 Wait, your thighs. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.679 Yeah, that's that's what holds you up. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:08.280 I get the genitals actually, because if you're going all 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.600 in the thighs. 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.240 Maybe it'll just continually like renew. It's like an extra. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.480 Maybe it's like splinters in the wood. They're like, no, 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:20.880 we don't want Maybe it protects you. 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.800 Right, right, right, Okay, I don't know. Perhaps it tingles. 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:31.600 So the topical application of the plant might cause hallucinations, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.280 and with the sensation of flying being one of these 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.320 potential hallucinations, so that that kind of makes sense about 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.240 you know, broomsticks and flying and so on. But the 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:45.480 witch's ointment was also supposed to be sexually stimulating, and 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.200 that is what I want to say a little bit about. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.560 So let's take a minute to just take stock of 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.760 where and when we are. We're in the not right now, 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.600 but I mean in history in the history section. 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.680 Yeah, we're in my back bedroom of my house right now. 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:08.000 Okay, But if we are celebrating Saint Walpurgis night, yes, 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.000 in let's say the fourteenth through the seventeenth centuries were 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:15.560 in Western Europe, Christianity is the prevailing religion in most areas, 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.680 and so you were either a Christian on the side 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.240 of good, or you were evil considered evil yeah, or 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.960 you practiced your religion in secret under the cover of night. 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.160 So witchcraft became this sort of scapegoat term that was 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.080 used as an explanation for why something bad and unexplainable happened, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.360 and as as an other like this is not like us. 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.200 And so it also was used to put blame on 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.240 whoever was viewed as deserving of blame, often an outsider 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.120 or someone who simply did not conform. This was often women, 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:54.040 especially hence which especially women who were outspoken or fierce 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.000 didn't act subservient. That type the troublesome one. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.840 The troublesome the ones you want to poison. 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.600 Yeah, exactly right. But and so those women were to 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.760 be feared and cast out, and so they were said 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.760 to have sex with the devil or with demons, and 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:18.040 the use of plants like belladonna represented this aggressive female sexuality, 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.760 which was the scariest thing of all to men during 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:28.560 this time. So of course it became it was like, oh, 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.600 she's I'm sorry, you're not acting like a woman, should 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:32.120 you know? 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:33.880 Which which she. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:35.960 Must be a witch. So but that makes it one 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:37.280 of my favorite plants too that it was. 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.000 Yeah, it makes me really have love for it. 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.440 This is going to be the centerpiece to my satan garden. 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.640 Yes, I love it. 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.359 Satan garden commemorated or something that sounds great. 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.520 Well anyway, So whether a tropa belladonna was actually used 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.440 during witchcraft pagan rituals isn't really clear, But what is 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.920 clear is that the plant is largely viewed as being 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.640 on the side of evil during this time, but during 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.000 the next couple of centuries, the superstition surrounding the plant receded. 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.840 So you've already heard about a non witchcraft or non 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.080 poisoning example of the plant's use as a beauty enhancer. 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.600 In Italy during the fifteen hundreds and in the eighteenth 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:22.440 century during the Age of Enlightenment, doctors began performing thoughtful 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.560 or at least systematic studies on the possible medicinal applications 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.879 of plants such as belladonna, and they found one, and 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.520 then another, and then another, until it seemed like they 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.240 were kind of being just pulling these applications out of 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:40.119 thin air. One of the first and actually effective uses 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.320 of belladonna was to dilate the pupils, which was helpful 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.879 in eye surgeries. But atropine, which is the extract or 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.199 which is one of the active compounds, was also a 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:56.080 common ingredient in suppositories, enemas, plasters, injections. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:18:00.639 That's actually, I mean, that's a terrible idea, just in 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.960 terms of its mechanism of action. It's not going to 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:04.119 do what you okay. 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.520 So it was used on its own as a topical painkiller, 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.240 and was also combined with other poisonous plants, including the 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.840 star of our first crossover with indefensive plants, aconite. 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:16.720 Nice. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.199 Together, belladonna and aconite were supposed to be excellent for 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.240 a severe sore throat or a tonsilitis. 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.600 I don't know if I would say that, No, it 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.800 would actually make it Worse'll talk about it supposed to be. 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:33.119 It was hailed as a great cure. And another thing 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:37.440 that I have listed under my questionable use's bullet point 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:45.080 is cigarettes with belladonna leaves soaked in opium tincture, which 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.600 were prescribed up through the nineteen thirties. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.119 I think, like the opium just worked so good it 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:51.640 didn't matter what you were slathering. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.199 I just like, why would you be prescribed that? I 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:56.720 mean it would you just carry those around like a 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:57.840 snoke break. 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.000 Like those two effects would kind of counter each other 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.000 there a little bit. Yeah, I think because because opium 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:07.480 is going to like slow your metabolism like down, and 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.639 atropine is going to kind of do the opposite of that, 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.240 So it would kind of just like counter the effects 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.520 of opium a little bit, so you would be at 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.040 less risk for like your like stopping breathing and things 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.359 like that. I guess, but it seems like a terrible 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.280 idea not advocating. Well. 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:27.600 It's funny though, because its cousin is nicotine nicotiana, so tobacco, 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.960 Oh you know, riting family, and we smoked plenty of 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:33.280 alcohoids when we're we'll get to that obviously. 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:33.800 Yeah. 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.840 I mean it's like, do you want the stuff that 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.560 will kill you slowlyer stuff that might kill you faster? 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.360 Interesting? Yeah, okay, so maybe not as maybe not as 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:46.600 crazy as I initially thought when I read it. 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.320 I mean, it still seems pretty crazy to me, Like bad, 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:50.640 bad idea for sure. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.520 Yeah, it seems seems like stick to tobacco. 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:56.199 So. 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:03.440 Another of Bella Donna's compound, scopolamine, was used alongside morphine 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.400 to induce twilight sleep for surgeries and revisiting the dark 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.600 side of the plant. It was also used as a 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.040 truth serum on occasion. 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.880 Still is really Yeah, there's a really interesting documentary about 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:20.680 scopolamine in Mexico. Yeah, it's it can make you very 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:25.479 open coercion without showing any outward symptoms that you're is 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:26.720 that vice? 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:28.760 Okay, Yeah, I did watch that a while ago. 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:29.120 Yeah. 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.000 Yeah, it's really it's intense. It's it's terrifying. 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:32.920 It is terrifying. 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:33.399 Wow. 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:35.760 Yeah, I checked that out again. 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.720 Also, before anyone gets any ideas about this plant being 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.639 an awesome new hallucinogen that grows all over the world. 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.680 Timothy Leary, who is the god of psychedelics. Basically, who's this? 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.200 You know, famous, everyone knows the name. 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.600 No, tell me who he is? I nodded as like, 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:54.840 I was like, yeah, tell me about Okay. 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.840 Timothy Leary is He was a Harvard researcher who studied 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:03.359 the effects of psychedelics on people. He basically all and 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.879 he tested them himself, like all all kinds. He was 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.320 the turn on, tune in drop out was like his things. 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.240 He was very It was the time of the cultural 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.200 Revolution in the US and the nineteen sixties and seventies. 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.000 He was a big part of that. Okay, So anyway, 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:24.160 he knew psychedelics for sure. Yeah, and he he allegedly 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.199 said about Belladonna that he had never heard of a 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:31.160 good Belladonna trip, and it was all terrifying and horrible 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:36.320 and just lefty feeling awful, not surprised, not recommended. The 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:40.680 active components of belladonna so mainly atropine and scopalamine, were 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.399 discovered in the early eighteen hundreds, which meant that the 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.919 compounds could be isolated to include in the many medications 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.760 that I mentioned, and also that it could be detected 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:57.040 in cases of suspected murder that's right. So it turns 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:00.520 out that belladonna was not an uncommon way off your 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:05.119 spouse or neighbor or patient. Some did it with a 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:08.200 plant itself, such as a woman who tossed in twenty 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:12.439 or so belladonna berries into her husband's blueberry bowl in 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.400 an attempt to sedate him as he was raging out 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.080 against the entire family. And in any case he was 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.480 more than sedated, he died. 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:21.880 He died. 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:27.160 Others used the isolated compound atropine, which was pretty much 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.520 only accessible at a certain point to physicians and nurses. 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.560 And have either of you ever heard of the serial 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.680 killer named Marie Generet or Generette? 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:38.520 No? 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.720 Maybe she was a Swiss nurse who in eighteen sixty 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.119 eight was convicted of murdering six of her patients and 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:50.240 attempting to poison two more with atropine. Turns out she 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:52.679 had been taking atropine for years and had developed a 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:54.880 tolerance for it, so she had to fake an eye 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:59.640 condition to get more, which reminds me of the Princess 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:04.879 Bride when I've developed a resistance aya camp powder. I 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.080 didn't know that you could actually do that to different poisons. 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:10.960 And somebody actually did that so come funny. But with 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:14.280 that fresh prescription, she began giving it to her patients, 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:18.119 but she was eventually caught red handed. And then there's 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:22.679 the more recent case of the scientists and lecturer of 0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:26.200 biologists I think in Scotland who in nineteen ninety four 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:30.040 attempted to poison his wife by serving her a gin 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:34.199 and tonic with a little something extra. After taking a 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:36.359 few SIPs, she started to feel really sick, so he 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.879 called the general practitioner who had gone home for the evening, 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:43.320 and he left a message he didn't bother calling emergency services, 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:46.639 even though she was feeling deathly ill. The message got 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:50.760 sent to emergency services anyway, and they showed up where 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.760 they diagnosed her as having symptoms of atropine poisoning. It 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:59.520 turned out that this dude had put atropine in a 0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:01.960 bunch of bottles of tonic at a grocery store and 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:05.240 then returned home with one. So you put them in 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.680 tonic and bottles of tonic water at the grocery store, Why, well, 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:12.919 it's a terrible plan. Seven other people around the area 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.159 had also come down with a strange case of atropine 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:19.840 poisoning after drinking tonic water from this same grocery store. 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:21.200 Huh. 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:23.879 So on first glance, it seemed like his wife was 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:24.919 just another victim. 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:29.360 Oh, it's like, I don't care if multiple people die. 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:30.680 I just don't want to get caught. 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:34.000 For Well, the thing is in the other bottles. It 0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:37.840 was a lower concentration of atropine, but in his wife's 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:40.840 tonic bottle, or like his wife's drink, it was much higher. 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:43.159 So it was he was definitely making an effort. 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:45.359 It's interesting that people can show up though and see 0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:47.880 it and go, oh, this looks like atropine poisoning. It's 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:49.000 enough of a thing. 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:56.240 Yeah, we'll talk about it. This is why I can't wait. 0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:01.600 I'm almost done. Don't worry. Yeah. So this was his 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:03.639 plan all along, just to be oh, this is a 0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:07.879 random poisoning. And he also was having an affair with 0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:11.000 this younger woman that he was trying to run off with. Anyway, 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:14.800 So he was convicted, sent to jail, served twelve years. 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:18.639 He's out, obviously, and after his release he was hired 0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:21.600 as a professor of philosophy and medical ethics. 0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:24.920 I'm sorry, why were they Why did they let him out? 0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:28.520 No, attempted murder doesn't get you very far, I guess 0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:34.800 in the court system. I So on that note, Aaron, 0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:37.520 will you tell us what it would be like to 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:39.760 be poisoned by Belladonna? 0:25:40.760 --> 0:26:22.879 Yes, okay, enthusiasm. 0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:05.280 Okay, were you ready? Yes? 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:06.160 Okay. 0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:10.360 So to tell you about the effects of Belladonna, we're 0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:12.920 going to take a step back so I can tell 0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:22.040 you about the nervous system. Oh okay, giddy's. 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:24.240 Physically okay. 0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:29.520 So your nervous system, if you're unaware, has two major 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:33.320 parts to it. The first is your somatic nervous system, 0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:35.959 which is like your muscles in your arms and your legs, 0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:38.720 like what you might think of as your nervous system. 0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:42.840 It's like your sensory nerves and you're bending your arm 0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:46.840 all that stuff. But then there's your autonomic nervous system, 0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:48.840 and that's the part that you might not think about 0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:52.520 because it mostly controls stuff that you're unaware of, like 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:55.560 your digestion and sweating. Maybe you're aware of sweating, I 0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:55.840 don't know. 0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:59.480 I'm all aware of acts, never enough to control this. 0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:04.199 So the autonomic nervous system, it controls all of that 0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:09.400 kind of stuff in your body, digestion, salivation, blah blah, 0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:14.159 blah okay, And the autonomic nervous system has two major divisions, 0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:20.320 the sympathetic and the parasympathetic. So don't like, don't fade 0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:22.520 on me, guys, it's gonna be it's gonna get really fun. 0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:24.880 Like we're gonna talk about like crazy things. 0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:27.320 Happen in an autonomic nervous systm or in the autonomic 0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:30.760 ners sympathetic and ympathetic exactly. 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:35.240 So the sympathetic nervous system basically think of it as 0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:38.560 fighter flight. Okay, So everybody knows fight or flight, right, 0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:44.280 So if you think about what happens in your body physiologically, 0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:47.159 if you were to get into a situation where you 0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:48.879 would need that fight or flight. 0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:51.560 Response, murder outside my window. 0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:56.080 Exactly, a clown in a maze, all of those things. Okay, 0:27:56.280 --> 0:27:59.640 So think about and tell me, you guys, what kinds 0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:02.080 of things are going to be happening in your body 0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:03.440 in that situation. 0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:07.520 Go Sweat, heart rate, blood, vessel dilation. 0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:09.040 All of these things are great. 0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:10.200 Pee my pants. 0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:12.760 Okay, No, you're actually not going to be your pants. 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:13.600 I'll tell you why. 0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:15.119 Maybe that's my fight. 0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:17.720 Or just you. 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:22.800 Okay, So absolutely your heart rate is going to increase right, 0:28:22.880 --> 0:28:25.560 Your heart rate is going to increase. It's gonna beat harder, 0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:28.280 and it's going to beat faster. And that's because you 0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:30.480 need to get that blood to your body, right to 0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:32.240 your arms and your legs so that you can run 0:28:32.280 --> 0:28:36.200 away your You said your blood vessels are going to dilate. Absolutely, 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:38.400 all of the blood vessels that go to your skeletal 0:28:38.440 --> 0:28:40.880 muscles are going to dilate, and all the ones that 0:28:40.920 --> 0:28:43.440 go to your internal organs are going to constrict. 0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:46.080 Is that why I get nauseous if I eat and run? 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:46.640 Yeah? 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:48.920 Probably? Yeah. 0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:50.120 I don't do that a lot, by. 0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:52.280 Way, because like your stomach is like, we don't need 0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:54.280 this right now, Right, you don't need to digest the 0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:56.360 sandwich that you just ate because you need to focus 0:28:56.400 --> 0:29:02.960 on running away from a murderer. So awesome, sweating is 0:29:02.960 --> 0:29:06.440 probably gonna happen after the fact, right, So it'll actually 0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:08.800 be probably, I mean, sweating is a complicated one, so 0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:09.560 let's ignore it. 0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:14.760 What about hearing the blood in my ears? 0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:17.920 Yeah, so that's just because your part is pumping so 0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:21.120 hard and so fast, right, so your part is like 0:29:21.280 --> 0:29:23.960 going crazy, and so you can hear the blood rushing 0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:26.280 to your ears. You're not going to pee your pants 0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:28.680 until after the threat is gone. 0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:30.640 Here's why Lenge accept it. 0:29:34.080 --> 0:29:38.880 All of your all of the smooth muscles around your 0:29:38.960 --> 0:29:42.080 GI tract and your bladder are actually going to relax 0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:46.520 because you don't need digestion right now. Right No paris, 0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:52.480 no Paracelsus. But all of your sphincters are going to contract. 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:55.520 So that's why you poop yourself. 0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:57.520 You're not gonna poop yourself. All of your poop is 0:29:57.560 --> 0:29:59.520 going to be held right in. All of your pea 0:29:59.560 --> 0:30:02.239 is going to be because the last thing that you 0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:05.280 need when you're confronted with something is to pee. It 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:09.880 could be that like immediately upon seeing something, you could 0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:14.880 like things could void before they contract, or what happens often, 0:30:19.120 --> 0:30:22.040 what happens often, and what my high school biology teacher 0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:25.160 actually told us about. He was not a great human, 0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:28.200 but he was a great biology teacher. He said that 0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:32.640 what he used to do was like at Notsberry Farm 0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:35.720 or whatever, when you have those haunted scary houses. He 0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:37.560 worked at one of those in high school or something 0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:40.040 like that, and he said that he would scare people 0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:43.760 right in front of the restroom because then they need 0:30:43.800 --> 0:30:46.760 to be really bad, and so then it would stimulate 0:30:46.760 --> 0:30:49.600 their sympathetic response really fast, but then they would quickly 0:30:49.640 --> 0:30:52.880 realize that they don't need it, and then the parasympathetics 0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:55.240 would take over, and then it would release everything and 0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:56.560 they'd beat themselves right in. 0:30:56.520 --> 0:31:02.840 Front of their Oh my, oh wow, that is power. 0:31:03.200 --> 0:31:05.560 It's that we probably should not have just given to 0:31:05.600 --> 0:31:05.920 the world. 0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:09.120 But if I were a high school student working at 0:31:09.120 --> 0:31:11.040 a corn scary maze or whatever. 0:31:11.880 --> 0:31:11.960 I. 0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:16.960 Hearing that story is part of what made me interested 0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:18.000 in biology. You know. 0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:22.760 It's like, whoa, oh, Nancy, I just did it for the. 0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:28.760 Okay, So anyways, all of that, all of those reactions, 0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:33.640 that's your sympathetic response. So fight or flight sympathetic. That's 0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:38.640 what's happening when you're under serious dress. Okay, fight or flight, anxiety, attack, 0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:41.280 et cetera. What about the rest of the time. The 0:31:41.320 --> 0:31:45.200 rest of the time, your parasympathetic nervous system is your friend. 0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:49.920 This system is your rest and digest. Okay, feed and breed. 0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:55.680 No one's grosser because like breed. But yes, you could 0:31:55.680 --> 0:31:59.200 say that too. So you can think of the actions 0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:03.240 of the paras sympathetic nervous system as basically almost exactly 0:32:03.320 --> 0:32:06.160 the opposite of the actions of the sympathetic nervous system. 0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:07.920 You're peeing all the time, exactly. 0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:11.680 So if your sympathetic nervous system is increasing your heart rate, 0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:14.960 your parasympathetic is slowing it down. If your sympathetic is 0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:19.240 blocking parastosis in digestion, then your parasympathetic is promoting it. 0:32:19.520 --> 0:32:23.840 If the sympathetic is constricting your sphincters, then the parasympathetic 0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:30.719 is letting them fly, right, okay, exactly Okay. So the 0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:37.160 parasympathetic nervous system's actions are mediated by two things. Basically, 0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:42.760 a neurotransmitter that's called acetylcholin, which is like a little 0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:47.720 molecule that's released at the end of a nerve, and 0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:53.280 the receptor where acetylcholine binds. Okay, and that receptor is 0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:57.760 called a muscarinic receptor. Who muscarinic like a muscle. Think 0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:00.520 of it that way, even though muscle receptor, even though 0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:01.440 it's not on muscles. 0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:03.720 These are the little jumps in between the nerves. 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:08.640 Exactly right, yeah, okay. These two divisions of your autonomic 0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:12.680 nervous system parasympathetic rest and digest sympathetic fight or flight. 0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:16.800 They work together and most of the time, in most 0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:20.960 organ systems. It's your parasympathetic that's kind of in control, right, 0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:25.160 because you're not most of the time under serious like 0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:29.000 fight or flight stimulation. 0:33:29.720 --> 0:33:30.200 I hope not. 0:33:30.600 --> 0:33:34.520 But if you were to block the sympathetic nervous system, 0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:38.120 then the parasympathetic would be even more pronounced, so your 0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:41.320 heart rate would go down even more, et cetera. Right, 0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:44.840 if you were to block the sympathetic response, and if 0:33:44.840 --> 0:33:48.160 you were to block the parasympathetic, then your sympathetic would 0:33:48.240 --> 0:33:51.400 take over. So both of these things are acting kind 0:33:51.440 --> 0:33:53.680 of all the time. It's just a matter of which 0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:58.440 one is in control and taking over makes sense? Yeah, yeah, cool. 0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:02.880 Now you're an expert on the nervous Congratulations everyone. So 0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:06.840 why did I spend so much time talking you through 0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:08.239 how the nervous system works. 0:34:08.280 --> 0:34:11.200 I have a feeling it has to do with Belladonna. 0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:13.360 You're just as smart aarin? Did you, like, do you 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:17.160 have a doctorate or something? Because you're so smart here? 0:34:17.360 --> 0:34:18.480 So glad you mentioned it. 0:34:20.400 --> 0:34:26.279 Okay, doctor, you're right. So it turns out that the 0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:31.040 compounds in belladonna that make it so dangerous directly affect 0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:38.120 your parasympathetic nervous system. Specifically, they are what's called a 0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:44.160 muscarinic receptor and antagonist, which is a fancy mouthful of 0:34:44.200 --> 0:34:48.120 a word that basically means it blocks the effects of 0:34:48.200 --> 0:34:52.520 the parasympathetic system. So it's blocking rest and digest which 0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:54.400 means what system takes over. 0:34:54.480 --> 0:34:59.800 Sympathetic exactly, it's yeah. 0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:04.320 And so those compounds which you mentioned already are atropine, scopolamine, 0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:10.600 and there's another one called hyociamine or daturine whatever. Atropine 0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:12.120 and scopolamine are the most important. 0:35:12.280 --> 0:35:13.680 Who cares about this other one? 0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:19.880 Not me? So having atropine or scopolamine in your system 0:35:20.360 --> 0:35:24.040 basically means that your sympathetic nervous system, the one that 0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:27.080 makes you freak out, have anxiety, fight or flight, is 0:35:27.200 --> 0:35:31.800 now unopposed and can take over the workings of your body. 0:35:32.000 --> 0:35:34.920 So you guys, tell me what kind of symptoms are 0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:35.520 we going to see? 0:35:36.239 --> 0:35:40.680 Dilated pupils, Yeah, lots of heavy breathing, Yeah, heart rate 0:35:40.760 --> 0:35:42.240 really going fast exactly. 0:35:42.239 --> 0:35:44.239 So your heart rate's going to increase like crazy, No 0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:47.200 more peeing, no more peeing, right, all your sphincters are 0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:48.520 going to be shut up real tight. So it can 0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:53.400 cause constipation, and it can cause urinary incontinence. Your pupils 0:35:53.400 --> 0:35:55.719 are going to dilate. And that's because if you think 0:35:55.760 --> 0:35:58.680 about in a fight or flight situation, you need to 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:01.280 be able to get as much light into your eyes 0:36:01.320 --> 0:36:05.279 as possible to like see what's going on. Yeah, but 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:07.600 if you're in arrest and digest, your eyes are like 0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:12.040 it's cool, Like we'll just be here, check right. It Also, 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:15.440 what it also affects is that your parasympathetic nervous system 0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:18.919 is what controls the near far focus of your eyes, 0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:23.440 which is called accommodation, and so blocking the parasympathetic effect 0:36:23.680 --> 0:36:26.400 doesn't allow you to accommodate, so it can actually cause 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:29.200 blurry vision in addition to this pupillary dilation. 0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:33.480 Oh so that was another thing that women who use 0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.600 it too much in their eyes would go blind or 0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:38.560 lose the ability to see absolutently. 0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:42.359 Yeah, because you lose the ability to accommodate. Yeah right, 0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:47.000 it's fun. So yeah, that's sort of the main effects 0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:52.960 of atropine. There's actually there also are central nervous system effects, 0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:56.560 which we didn't necessarily talk about the central nervous system 0:36:56.560 --> 0:37:02.480 effects of your parasympathetic or sympathetic nervous but because atropine 0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:05.360 can cross your blood brain barrier. It can also affect 0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:09.480 your brain, which is why it can cause hallucinations, confusion, 0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:13.760 all kinds of crazy things. There's actually a really funny 0:37:14.520 --> 0:37:19.480 little poem I don't know saying, can I guess what 0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:20.560 it is? Yeah? Do it? 0:37:20.600 --> 0:37:20.879 Is it? 0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:25.200 Hot as a hair, blind as a bat, dry as 0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:28.280 a bone, red as a beat, and mad as a hen. 0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:32.000 Mad as a hatter, actually as a hen, mad is 0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:35.200 a hatter because hens are not really that crazy, but hatters, 0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:36.839 people who made hats. 0:37:36.560 --> 0:37:39.520 You played, Zelda, hens are crazy. 0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:42.360 These are crazy. But also the hatter is really crazy, 0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:43.680 and I guess the maskmaker. 0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:47.959 Yeah, but yes, that's exactly the same. Yes, yeah, And 0:37:48.280 --> 0:37:50.880 what's cool is that we kind of went through already 0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:52.920 all of those specific things. 0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:53.200 Right. 0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:56.600 You're blind as a bat because your pupils are dilated 0:37:56.640 --> 0:37:59.680 and I lost, you've lost accommodation. You're red as a 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:02.319 beat because all of your blood vessels like to your 0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:05.000 skin and your muscles are now dilated, so you've got 0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:07.840 tons of blood rushing to your skin, which makes you 0:38:07.920 --> 0:38:11.399 red and also hot as a hair. And you're dry 0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:14.560 as a bone because your parasympathetic nervous system is what 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:19.080 causes salivary secretion, so now you have no saliva, which 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:21.080 is also why I don't think it would be a 0:38:21.080 --> 0:38:23.520 good treatment for sore throat because it actually can cause 0:38:23.560 --> 0:38:26.560 a very sore throat. Atropine, because you have no saliva, 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:31.000 do you want to be dryer? And mad is a 0:38:31.000 --> 0:38:33.399 hatter because it crosses the blood brain barrier and can 0:38:33.480 --> 0:38:34.799 cause hallucinations. Again. 0:38:34.800 --> 0:38:37.879 Wow, so that just opened up. That's why I love 0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:41.440 coming here because it takes all these cool things about 0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:43.720 the plants and just puts it into context. 0:38:43.800 --> 0:38:49.120 It's so cool. So atropine is the most potent of 0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:53.760 these compounds, but it actually it still today is used 0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:57.640 sometimes medically, so we use it in emergency situations to 0:38:57.719 --> 0:39:01.600 treat braidedcardia or a very very heart rate because it's 0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:04.880 going to end up stimulating your heart rate. I don't 0:39:04.920 --> 0:39:08.040 know how often it's actually used for real, but I 0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:09.719 do know that it's like, if you look at a 0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:12.320 crash cart at a hospital, they do have atropine on hand, 0:39:13.200 --> 0:39:13.960 so there you go. 0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:14.359 Wow. 0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:17.880 It also can be used in the case of organophosphate 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:22.440 insecticide poisoning. Because this is really cool and I get 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:28.440 into it because entomology, but huh, organophosphates act kind of 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:32.680 on the same on the same receptors, and they cause 0:39:32.760 --> 0:39:36.600 them to be constitually active, and so this can kind 0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:41.680 of help reverse those effects, but only on the muscarinic receptors. 0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:44.920 This is probably too much anyways. It can be used 0:39:44.960 --> 0:39:47.000 to treat organophosphate insecticide poisoning. 0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:50.600 I think it's oh, I mean rural area, right. 0:39:50.680 --> 0:39:53.280 It's a very real thing that somebody could be poisoned 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:56.359 by that. It's not gonna help like it'll basically it's 0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:58.239 just symptomatic relief for that. 0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:01.640 Just getting you to the hust that'll to get you, yeah. 0:40:02.120 --> 0:40:08.040 Right exactly. Scopolamine is actually still used as a treatment 0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:11.200 for sea sickness or motion sickness. They give it as 0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:15.040 a transder transdermal patch because it also can cross a 0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:17.359 blood brain barrier, so can help with nausea and things 0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:24.120 like that. And treatment of atropine overdose is with a 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:30.120 drug called physostigmine, which basically just helps so the neurotransmitter 0:40:30.440 --> 0:40:34.600 acetylcholine that I mentioned. The drugs that you treat atropine 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:37.640 with just increase the amount of that available so that 0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:41.279 you can kind of overcome the effects of atropine. So 0:40:41.320 --> 0:40:44.560 it doesn't reverse atropine necessarily. It just helps you sort 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:47.520 of overcome the effects so that you can then get 0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:48.240 better faster. 0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:51.400 Healing people is a bizarre sport. 0:40:51.760 --> 0:40:56.680 Yeah, dude, tell me about it. So, yeah, I have 0:40:56.760 --> 0:41:01.240 some info on how much it might take to kill you. Yeah, yeah, 0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:01.960 not much. 0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:04.319 Just for a friend, just for a friend, just for fun. 0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:09.040 So uh, Atropine specifically was the one that I found 0:41:09.040 --> 0:41:13.720 the most information about. Atropine can basically start incapacitating people 0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:17.719 at about ten to twenty milligrams dosage. And I wanted 0:41:17.719 --> 0:41:19.480 to ask you, Matt and maybe we'll talk about this, 0:41:19.520 --> 0:41:22.400 because I couldn't find probably could have if I looked harder, 0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:28.600 how many milligrams of atropine are in like a berry 0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:29.520 or a plant. 0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:31.600 Shouldn't ask me that because I do not know. 0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:32.680 I don't know either. 0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:36.560 I saw that numbers totally, that like some children could 0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:39.480 die after eating a handful like a few berries, right. 0:41:39.400 --> 0:41:42.040 I saw that like it could be between like point 0:41:42.080 --> 0:41:45.520 five and one point two percent, But I don't know 0:41:45.520 --> 0:41:47.040 how many milligrams that equates to. 0:41:47.400 --> 0:41:50.520 Let's rewind, I do know an answer to that, which 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:53.120 is the safe bet, but it's it varies from plant 0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:55.160 to plant, honestly depending on how it's growing too, so 0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:57.880 there's to give a standard would be rough, but yeah, 0:41:57.920 --> 0:41:58.200 there is. 0:41:58.560 --> 0:42:02.040 Yeah, So anyways, into twenty milligrams can incapacitate you. It 0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:04.759 could probably kill a child, but the lethal dose for 0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:07.840 an adult human is usually between ninety and one hundred 0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:11.959 and thirty milligrams of pure atropine. So again not sure 0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:14.279 exactly how many berries, but we're not advocating that you 0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:17.640 kill anybody with atropine, so let's not even get into it. 0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:20.720 Just don't don't, don't, don't do it, don't touch the planet. 0:42:20.840 --> 0:42:24.520 Yeah, if you survive, So if your dose is not lethal, 0:42:24.600 --> 0:42:29.920 which it's obviously not always lethal, symptoms generally, like the 0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:32.160 onset is pretty quick within like an hour or a 0:42:32.200 --> 0:42:36.120 couple of hours, but they do get better within like 0:42:36.160 --> 0:42:39.360 three to four days, and then there really isn't any 0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:43.840 permanent loss of function. Okay, you're doing it all the 0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:48.040 time exactly, Yeah, but yeah, there's also huge individual variation 0:42:48.120 --> 0:42:51.080 in your susceptibility to atropine, which so it totally makes 0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:54.080 sense that people could become used to it because it 0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:57.480 basically is just blocking this specific receptor. So what your 0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:02.200 body will do is just make more receptors. Okay, so 0:43:02.360 --> 0:43:04.319 if you use it all the time. It's the same 0:43:04.360 --> 0:43:08.560 thing with opiates your body. Like that's why you go 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:11.960 from like a low dose to like straight up heroin, right, 0:43:12.120 --> 0:43:15.480 is because you your body makes more receptors and then 0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:18.040 it becomes less effective and then you need a stronger dose. 0:43:18.719 --> 0:43:22.439 So yeah, amazing. That puts a lot of things into 0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:23.120 context here. 0:43:44.800 --> 0:43:47.880 But now, like we need to know, Matt, why on 0:43:48.000 --> 0:43:49.920 earth do plants make this stuff? 0:43:50.719 --> 0:43:52.520 I'm gonna have the same darn answer for you. I 0:43:52.520 --> 0:43:54.200 think every time we do one of these, but it's 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:55.160 to not get eaten. 0:43:56.600 --> 0:43:57.520 It seems reasonable. 0:43:57.600 --> 0:43:59.319 No, But this one actually took me down a really 0:43:59.320 --> 0:44:03.000 fun rabbit hole, which I always appreciate because it forces 0:44:03.040 --> 0:44:05.480 me to take a different perspective on things, to ask 0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:08.440 different questions and and and like just the kinds of 0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:10.160 questions that I had to ask to get to the 0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:14.359 answer to this. It was fun. And I didn't hoe 0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:17.600 my advisor doesn't listen to this, just put it that 0:44:17.600 --> 0:44:20.600 way a few days. No, it's fine, I didn't. I 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:24.520 don't I know how to balance my time darning, all right, 0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:29.080 So all right, So many names for this plant include 0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:32.960 the word nightshade, and did you know there's a whole 0:44:33.120 --> 0:44:39.000 night shade family. You did? Awesome. Anyone who gardens to 0:44:39.080 --> 0:44:41.719 any sort of degree probably comes across that word at 0:44:41.719 --> 0:44:44.040 some point or another. Because a lot of our favorite 0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:47.920 fruits and tubers, or I guess we call them vegetables, 0:44:47.960 --> 0:44:49.680 they're fruits and tubers. 0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:51.600 Tubers, fruits and tubers. 0:44:51.640 --> 0:44:59.239 From this family. So deadly nightshade is a cousin of tomatoes, potatoes, aubergines, 0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:06.160 and or egg plant fancy tomatillos. Yeah, it's a big family. 0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:08.880 A lot is going on, but a lot of the 0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:11.560 same toxic compounds are shared by this family, which is 0:45:11.560 --> 0:45:14.640 why you don't eat raw potatoes. You do not eat 0:45:14.760 --> 0:45:18.160 unripe or literally any other part of the tomato plant. 0:45:18.680 --> 0:45:22.960 They're they're well defended to a large degree. 0:45:23.360 --> 0:45:25.760 It really makes sense that you don't eat raw potatoes 0:45:25.800 --> 0:45:27.920 because that's the root, and the root generally has the. 0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:31.520 Most well defended because that's the thing that's getting them 0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:32.680 through to next year. 0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:37.040 And this family is solin Acea solin ace. 0:45:37.320 --> 0:45:40.200 Yes, so it's native to Europe and parts of North 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:42.040 Africa as well as Western Asia. So this is like 0:45:42.040 --> 0:45:45.520 a nice Eurasian It shares that with a lot of 0:45:45.600 --> 0:45:48.480 other plants that have been found useful just because of 0:45:48.920 --> 0:45:52.480 history of human settlement and cultivation. But it has been 0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:55.759 naturalized and introduced throughout the world. I don't think it's 0:45:55.840 --> 0:45:57.799 terribly weedy. In fact, most of what I read says 0:45:57.800 --> 0:45:59.960 it's actually kind of hard to cultivate. It can be picky, 0:46:00.480 --> 0:46:03.400 which is interesting. But it is a plant of disturbance. 0:46:03.440 --> 0:46:06.680 It likes edges, nothing too sunny, nothing too shaded, a 0:46:06.680 --> 0:46:08.719 little bit more nutrients in the soil. So this makes 0:46:08.760 --> 0:46:11.560 sense that it would be involved in human history. You 0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:15.760 think humans leave a mark on the landscape, even paleolithic humans. 0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:20.360 We're disturbing the landscape, right, and certain plants probably followed 0:46:20.400 --> 0:46:24.239 them around whenever they did that. Inevitably, you see a 0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:27.200 plant enough, you're going to experiment it with it a 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:30.120 little bit, you'd expect, right, So this probably came into 0:46:30.120 --> 0:46:33.359 play way earlier than people were even keeping records of it. Yeah, 0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:35.960 which is fascinating because I always think about all of 0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:38.560 the work that must go into playing with and experimenting 0:46:38.600 --> 0:46:40.799 with plants through the ages. Right, But if certain ones 0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:44.680 are just kind of sticking around human settlements, yeah, of 0:46:44.719 --> 0:46:46.960 course we're going to come into contact with it. It's 0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:48.880 not a very long lived plant, which I think is 0:46:48.920 --> 0:46:51.640 pretty interesting. It can live up to forty eight years 0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:53.879 in the wild, which really tells you it's at home 0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:56.520 in these transitional environments. It gets done what it needs 0:46:56.520 --> 0:46:58.839 to get done, and a short amount of time makes 0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:01.160 the best use of its time. And what better way 0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:04.640 to optimize your life, your short life on this planet 0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:09.839 than to protect yourself with some nasty, nasty chemicals. Y, Yeah, 0:47:09.840 --> 0:47:13.160 that makes sense. Yeah, plants have two options, really, chemical 0:47:13.160 --> 0:47:17.000 and physical. And physical is very costly, right. It takes 0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:21.000 a lot of energy and carbon to produce spines, thorns, needles, 0:47:21.080 --> 0:47:24.560 those sorts of things. Yeah, Chemicals, if you grow in 0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:27.560 a nutrient rich area, especially one with high D nitrogen, 0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:30.400 you can make alkaloids really easily. And so that is 0:47:30.440 --> 0:47:33.319 probably one of the main selective pressures that drove this 0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:38.560 plant to be just horrendous for you, right. And so 0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:41.120 it's also very fleshy. It's not something that guards itself 0:47:41.120 --> 0:47:44.839 with woody tissues. Again, that's costly. They don't live very long. 0:47:44.880 --> 0:47:48.400 They're perennial, they die back every year. Again, more emphasis 0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:53.120 for that selection pressure for toxic compounds cool. Yeah, it's 0:47:53.120 --> 0:47:55.319 fun to think about this because you know they can't 0:47:55.320 --> 0:47:59.000 get up and run away, so poison whatever's chewing on 0:47:59.040 --> 0:48:00.600 you. You want to make sure it either doesn't do that 0:48:00.640 --> 0:48:04.799 again or has no opportunity to do that again. So 0:48:05.040 --> 0:48:07.600 I've heard botanists call this the most one of the 0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:09.680 most toxic plants in the Western hemisphere. 0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:10.080 Wow. 0:48:10.160 --> 0:48:11.759 I've also heard botanis say it's one of the most 0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:13.600 toxic plants in the Eastern hemisphere. 0:48:13.640 --> 0:48:17.680 So go figure one plus one, whatever hemisphere you find 0:48:17.719 --> 0:48:21.960 yourself on, avoid it. But again, thinking about all of 0:48:22.000 --> 0:48:24.359 the plants in the night shade family, it's a lot 0:48:24.360 --> 0:48:27.480 of these chemicals are not unique to deadly night shade. 0:48:27.480 --> 0:48:29.600 It's just really good at it and happens to hang 0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:31.319 around people very often. 0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:34.520 Like sort of these calcareous rocks. So it does really 0:48:34.560 --> 0:48:36.479 well in Europe, which might explain some of the more 0:48:37.200 --> 0:48:43.600 you know, Mediterranean European themed anecdotes being kind of predominant there. 0:48:43.680 --> 0:48:43.839 Right. 0:48:43.960 --> 0:48:46.440 Yeah, just does well. And like I said, it's kind 0:48:46.480 --> 0:48:48.720 of fleshy, which is kind of cool. It's a beautiful plant. 0:48:48.719 --> 0:48:51.319 I wish I didn't have a picture all the ones 0:48:51.320 --> 0:48:53.760 in my book. They they don't recommend growing it very often, 0:48:53.880 --> 0:48:55.680 so it doesn't show up in a lot of the 0:48:55.960 --> 0:49:00.320 beautiful gardening illustrations, but it is a beautiful plant. People 0:49:00.400 --> 0:49:03.200 here it. So the issue with common names is sometimes 0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:05.479 they can apply to a lot of different plants, and 0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:07.120 you want to make sure that if someone serves you 0:49:07.280 --> 0:49:10.000 a night shade, if it happens to share one with 0:49:10.040 --> 0:49:12.080 a less toxic one. The good news is most of 0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:14.640 them that are called night shade don't mess with them, 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:17.520 but people confuse it with another one. Bittersweet night shade, 0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:20.000 which is a vine, has tiny little purple flowers and 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:23.400 it looks like a yellow traffic cone coming down from 0:49:23.400 --> 0:49:26.680 the bottom, very reminiscent of a tomato flower. Right, Okay, 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:30.160 bella downa looks nothing like that. It's actually very different 0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:32.560 for this family. It's not buzz pollinated, which is what 0:49:32.680 --> 0:49:37.080 tomatoes and aubergines I keep seeing bee. Yes, well, be 0:49:37.840 --> 0:49:39.759 so buzz pollination is really cool. With the bees coming, 0:49:39.800 --> 0:49:41.480 they land on the cone and they have to vibrate 0:49:41.520 --> 0:49:44.239 at a specific frequency to release the pollen. They're in 0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:46.520 these little chambers. And so there's plants that are at 0:49:46.520 --> 0:49:48.120 like a c sharp. There's plants that are eating like 0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:50.080 an e minor that sort of thing. I don't know 0:49:50.080 --> 0:49:51.759 what tomatoes are. They might be like in a sea, 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:54.680 but there it's really fun to watch because if you sit, 0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:58.640 you'll watch and you'll see it like spray down onto them. 0:49:58.800 --> 0:50:01.960 Bella Dona does not do that. It's got these beautiful 0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:05.279 sort of burgundy maroon bell shaped flowers that come down 0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:09.760 freely pollinated by a variety of larger insects. Very pretty 0:50:09.760 --> 0:50:13.960 plant though, I mean, if it's something that you're aware of, 0:50:14.480 --> 0:50:18.400 cautious around, respectful of, it would make an actual, very 0:50:18.440 --> 0:50:20.279 interesting addition to any garden, like. 0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:22.200 A beautiful center piece to your satan. 0:50:25.800 --> 0:50:29.080 They can get pretty impressive and height six point six 0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:32.560 feet is the tallest part, which is really impressive for 0:50:32.600 --> 0:50:36.840 an herbacious plant, and that probably, you know, packs some potency. 0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:38.360 Yeah, you imagine. 0:50:38.840 --> 0:50:41.160 And the fruits themselves, the ones that probably get the 0:50:41.160 --> 0:50:44.000 most attention despite the whole plant being pretty awful for you. 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:47.000 Is a berry. It's an actual berry, just like tomatoes. 0:50:47.040 --> 0:50:49.960 Tomatoes are berries, eggplants are berries, right. It's a fleshy, 0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:52.640 pulpy fruit with lots and lots of seeds in there, 0:50:53.120 --> 0:50:55.880 so the berries start green and ripe into black, and 0:50:55.920 --> 0:50:58.600 they do have are said to have a sweet taste 0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:01.239 to them. So a lot of children make very bad 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:04.360 mistakes because they don't it's not like you're eating something bitter. 0:51:04.440 --> 0:51:08.200 They eat a few, then they're dead. 0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:10.759 And would it numb your tongue or anything even to 0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:13.400 give you an indication of like, you know how you that's. 0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:17.920 No, so because it doesn't. So the muscarinic receptors are 0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:23.280 only in the parasympathetic nervous system, not the somatic nervous system, 0:51:23.360 --> 0:51:24.839 which is your sensory and. 0:51:25.080 --> 0:51:27.360 So it would muscle once you ingest it, and it 0:51:27.400 --> 0:51:29.760 would be started to digest before it took effect. 0:51:30.000 --> 0:51:33.320 Well, yeah, and it wouldn't affect any sensory nerves or 0:51:33.320 --> 0:51:35.040 anything like that. So you wouldn't have any numbness, you 0:51:35.040 --> 0:51:37.640 wouldn't have any tingling, you wouldn't have any muscle spasms 0:51:37.680 --> 0:51:40.080 because it's not affecting any of that stuff. So the 0:51:40.120 --> 0:51:42.759 first symptoms that you'd probably have would be things like 0:51:42.840 --> 0:51:47.680 dry mouth. Yeah, like that flushing fever. That's one of 0:51:47.719 --> 0:51:48.279 the first ones. 0:51:48.360 --> 0:51:48.680 Yeah. 0:51:48.760 --> 0:51:51.360 So, as we discussed, not all parts of the plant 0:51:51.440 --> 0:51:54.480 are equally toxic. Plants are going to prioritize certain organs 0:51:54.520 --> 0:51:58.279 over others, mainly their roots and their reproductive structures, and 0:51:58.360 --> 0:52:02.360 there's kind of a descending level of toxicity. Accordingly, the 0:52:02.440 --> 0:52:05.719 roots have the most, upwards of one point three percent 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:09.759 of them is made up of toxic compounds. There's a 0:52:09.760 --> 0:52:12.000 whole suite which I'll get to. Leaves is one point 0:52:12.040 --> 0:52:15.640 two percent, stalks, so stems point sixty five percent, flowers 0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:19.680 point six percent, and berries, oddly enough, point seven percent, 0:52:19.920 --> 0:52:22.960 and the seeds are only point four percent. That also 0:52:23.000 --> 0:52:26.840 makes sense, So berries, you don't want anything that shouldn't 0:52:26.840 --> 0:52:29.560 be eating them to eat them. But you also need 0:52:29.600 --> 0:52:31.759 to eventually get your seeds out into the environment, right, 0:52:31.800 --> 0:52:34.399 so don't load them with toxic things. I also found out, 0:52:34.680 --> 0:52:38.399 interestingly enough, that these toxins are expressed in everything from 0:52:38.400 --> 0:52:40.840 the nectar to the pollen as well. And they're not 0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:43.000 alone in that a lot of plants have toxic nectar. 0:52:43.440 --> 0:52:47.280 I have heard about people becoming sick or maybe dying 0:52:47.800 --> 0:52:48.840 after eating honey. 0:52:49.120 --> 0:52:53.399 Mad honey, you are from Appalachia, I am you would 0:52:53.400 --> 0:52:56.240 deal with that. Actually, So anytime they say don't honey 0:52:56.360 --> 0:52:59.520 your honey bees next to rhododendrons, because rhododendrons have a 0:52:59.560 --> 0:53:01.880 pretty nasty toxin that builds up the honey, and you 0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:03.920 had mentioned feeding it to soldiers to knock them out. 0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:07.279 I think it was the Romans. Don't quote me on 0:53:07.320 --> 0:53:10.319 this would leave infect hives with mad honey. They would 0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:13.040 feed these bees on rhododendron and leave them on the 0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:17.240 routes of the other soldiers, wait till they gorged themselves 0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:19.680 on it, and then just come in and slay them 0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:21.680 as they were on the ground, all nerved out. 0:53:22.120 --> 0:53:24.360 We're gonna quote you on that, quote me on that. 0:53:24.600 --> 0:53:26.080 Yeah, that's true. I don't know if it is the 0:53:26.120 --> 0:53:28.759 Greeks of the Romans, like it's one of those two 0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:31.880 were doing I probably both, I believe it, right. But 0:53:31.920 --> 0:53:35.040 the interesting thing is a lot of organisms can get 0:53:35.080 --> 0:53:38.680 away with eating these plants, right. It's very confusing to 0:53:38.800 --> 0:53:42.000 have something so terribly toxic to something like you and I, 0:53:42.719 --> 0:53:47.000 but seeing a little bird go up and go no problems, right. Yeah, 0:53:47.040 --> 0:53:49.200 So that really set me down this rabbit hole, because 0:53:49.280 --> 0:53:53.600 I know nothing about any sort of metabolic process that 0:53:53.600 --> 0:53:54.960 would be able to cope with this. You brought it 0:53:55.040 --> 0:53:56.960 up last time we talked. I think it was on 0:53:57.000 --> 0:53:59.560 my podcast about how insects kind of overcome this with 0:53:59.600 --> 0:54:03.400 some chanmation and stuff. But it's fascinating because these are small, 0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:08.880 brightly colored berries. Birds birds are number one the seed 0:54:08.880 --> 0:54:11.520 disperser of this plant. So I went, huh, what's going 0:54:11.560 --> 0:54:14.080 on there? And it's not just atropine that they're producing, right, 0:54:14.080 --> 0:54:19.759 they're also producing compounds like hyoscyamine, scopolamine, and solanine, which 0:54:19.800 --> 0:54:21.440 a lot of them other So there's a lot of 0:54:21.440 --> 0:54:23.640 stuff to deal with there, which tells me there's a 0:54:23.680 --> 0:54:25.680 lot of things that it doesn't want eating it. But 0:54:25.760 --> 0:54:28.000 whatever has to deal with that has to cope with that. 0:54:28.080 --> 0:54:30.640 So I went about trying to figure out what it 0:54:30.680 --> 0:54:34.360 is about birds that lets them deal with this on 0:54:34.400 --> 0:54:37.080 any great degree. And there's a lot of really fascinating 0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:40.759 ecology here. Interest in how animals cope with toxic plants 0:54:40.800 --> 0:54:43.040 actually comes up way more than I realized, and it 0:54:43.080 --> 0:54:46.000 comes up from the food industry, right, because if an 0:54:46.000 --> 0:54:48.560 animal can eat a lot of something, or eat something 0:54:48.640 --> 0:54:51.440 and doesn't immediately die from it, can it build up 0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:54.759 in that animal? And then when we consume the byproducts 0:54:54.760 --> 0:54:58.920 of that animal, can that hurt us? So famously, fish, yeah, 0:54:59.040 --> 0:55:02.520 mercury and fish Lincoln's mother was said to be killed 0:55:02.520 --> 0:55:05.120 by milk sickness, which is actually from drinking the milk 0:55:05.160 --> 0:55:06.839 of cows that have been feeding on a certain type 0:55:06.840 --> 0:55:09.800 of plant that grows like crazy around here. Oh, white 0:55:09.800 --> 0:55:10.319 snake root. 0:55:10.360 --> 0:55:10.480 Oh. 0:55:10.640 --> 0:55:13.399 Yes, So this is a big concern that we've known 0:55:13.400 --> 0:55:15.680 about for a very long time, and it comes up 0:55:15.800 --> 0:55:19.239 quite a bit. So there's a lot of unfortunate experiments 0:55:19.280 --> 0:55:21.520 where they just feed toxic things to animals and see 0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:22.040 what happens. 0:55:22.239 --> 0:55:22.839 Wow. 0:55:23.200 --> 0:55:26.240 So in searching for how birds are able to cope 0:55:26.239 --> 0:55:30.520 with eating these berries, I found a thing about tropain 0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:34.320 alkaloids and birds, which that's the sweet of compounds that 0:55:35.520 --> 0:55:38.719 night shades are producing. They're called tropain alkaloids, and alkaloids 0:55:38.719 --> 0:55:43.400 are across the board, very bioactive molecules, very rich in nitrogen. 0:55:44.440 --> 0:55:46.440 And so they wanted to know what was going to 0:55:46.440 --> 0:55:48.680 happen because obviously, again they've observed that a lot of 0:55:48.680 --> 0:55:51.040 animals can eat this stuff. Large animals, of course, just 0:55:51.080 --> 0:55:52.759 because it takes a lot to bring down a cow 0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:56.439 versus a medium sized human. But birds are pretty small, 0:55:56.480 --> 0:55:59.399 even if it's a hen. And so they noticed birds 0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:02.440 were eating these They're dispersed by birds. What's going on here? Well, 0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:06.239 they took a bunch of different kinds of hens, which 0:56:06.280 --> 0:56:08.680 I realized that there are mostly hens that are like 0:56:08.719 --> 0:56:11.120 egg producers and ones that are meat producers. And they 0:56:11.200 --> 0:56:16.840 just fed them varying levels of plant materials containing that 0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:19.479 class of compounds which I think they use detera, which 0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:21.839 deteramine was one of the ones you mentioned. They're named 0:56:21.840 --> 0:56:25.279 after these plants, which is great, but they fed them regardless. 0:56:25.280 --> 0:56:27.560 It's the same compound. They're just trying to see what 0:56:27.600 --> 0:56:31.200 concentrations does it effect. And it turns out that poultry, 0:56:31.239 --> 0:56:35.719 specifically so chickens, these gulliforms appear to possess an atropine 0:56:35.760 --> 0:56:41.799 hydroxylase like enzyme that inactivates tropaine alkaloids. What yeah, that's 0:56:41.880 --> 0:56:46.640 so cool, blew my mind. So, yes, they're bringing them in. 0:56:47.520 --> 0:56:50.879 They do affect them at increasing doses, but they can 0:56:50.880 --> 0:56:55.319 eat a lot more than you would expect for an 0:56:55.320 --> 0:56:56.400 animal that size. 0:56:56.520 --> 0:56:57.920 Aaron's mine is blown. 0:56:58.080 --> 0:57:02.720 My mine is fully blow because I mean that must 0:57:03.160 --> 0:57:06.600 like that has to mean that birds, at least poultry, 0:57:06.920 --> 0:57:11.040 that they have evolved with exposure to these compounds, like 0:57:11.440 --> 0:57:13.840 from the beginning, right. 0:57:13.880 --> 0:57:16.080 So I'm going to test you, what are chickens as 0:57:16.120 --> 0:57:19.439 like a type of class of birds. No, I don't 0:57:19.920 --> 0:57:21.120 chickens fall. 0:57:20.960 --> 0:57:23.800 Under They're not pesseriformis. 0:57:23.920 --> 0:57:26.800 No, They're which is the small, little perchy birds. 0:57:27.240 --> 0:57:29.920 But it's like the most SCIOs. It's the only one 0:57:29.920 --> 0:57:33.680 I can think of right now. They're galliformis right, which 0:57:33.720 --> 0:57:36.320 is peasants. Job, I have no idea. 0:57:38.640 --> 0:57:41.040 I'm across the room. Just double that noise up. Yeah, 0:57:41.080 --> 0:57:44.080 there we go. So they are in the same group 0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:48.640 as pheasants, and in the wild, pheasants are said to 0:57:48.640 --> 0:57:53.640 be the most numerous birds scene feeding on this plant. 0:57:54.160 --> 0:57:57.320 So at some point in the lineage of the pheasants 0:57:57.360 --> 0:58:02.960 they realized that there's a delicious berries out there. Evolutionarily speaking, 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:07.000 they have a history dealing with this. 0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:10.680 Yeah right, Oh my god, that is cool. 0:58:10.480 --> 0:58:13.120 That I never expected to track down that kind of 0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:17.800 connection out of a medical agro Yeah, journal, that was 0:58:17.880 --> 0:58:18.680 really cool to find it. 0:58:18.680 --> 0:58:19.520 Oh my god. 0:58:19.640 --> 0:58:22.600 But it gets even better, Oh my god. Right, So again, 0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:25.520 it still affects them. It's not going to kill them outright, right, 0:58:26.200 --> 0:58:28.320 the more they're eating, the worse it's gonna get. 0:58:28.400 --> 0:58:32.080 They're just able to basically break down the atropine or 0:58:32.320 --> 0:58:33.320 the alkalol. 0:58:33.600 --> 0:58:37.520 To some extent. Right, So feeding on higher amounts or 0:58:37.560 --> 0:58:42.200 feeding for longer increased the chances of mild diarrhea, which 0:58:42.240 --> 0:58:43.920 is interesting, going back to what you said about it 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:46.760 actually shutting it down. But it may not be atropine. 0:58:46.800 --> 0:58:49.040 It might be one of the other classic compounds. Yeah, 0:58:49.040 --> 0:58:51.400 but it actually gave the birds mild diarrhea. 0:58:51.560 --> 0:58:52.760 Just a little bit. 0:58:52.840 --> 0:58:56.120 From a plant's perspective, do you want seeds sitting in 0:58:56.160 --> 0:58:57.680 a gut for a very long time or do you 0:58:57.720 --> 0:59:00.680 want them to get removed from their thing, move the. 0:59:00.680 --> 0:59:03.960 Distance and stop it right now. 0:59:05.880 --> 0:59:07.840 So not only do you have birds that can eat 0:59:07.840 --> 0:59:10.960 your berries, give them the poops, and you've pretty much 0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:14.240 ensured that they get just far enough away to make 0:59:14.280 --> 0:59:17.280 your seeds find a new spot full of nitrogen rich 0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:17.960 poop to growing. 0:59:18.080 --> 0:59:20.520 You guys, are you hearing this because I want to 0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:21.400 do another PhD? 0:59:22.800 --> 0:59:25.840 Don't do it, But. 0:59:26.040 --> 0:59:30.080 Like, what the heck. 0:59:30.960 --> 0:59:34.280 That is that plants are fascinating? 0:59:34.800 --> 0:59:37.520 Are fascinating? I feel so sad for my life that 0:59:37.560 --> 0:59:40.280 I lived with a plant blindness for so long. 0:59:40.600 --> 0:59:41.200 We're carrying it. 0:59:41.360 --> 0:59:42.080 God for you. 0:59:42.160 --> 0:59:48.240 Matt with belladonna, which is kind of ironic, but it's 0:59:48.480 --> 0:59:53.240 so we're dilating our eyes and our minds and our minds. 0:59:54.120 --> 0:59:57.920 So long term exposure, elevated exposure gives the birds the 0:59:57.920 --> 1:00:02.200 case of the diarrheas, but breeding frequency was not affected, 1:00:02.720 --> 1:00:06.000 and the effects tended to be transient only for the 1:00:06.080 --> 1:00:08.360 duration of the study and did not appear to affect 1:00:08.400 --> 1:00:11.160 their health in the long run whatsoever. And to be 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:13.920 honest with you, this plant is not numerous enough on 1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:17.080 the landscape to ever become an issue for any wild 1:00:17.120 --> 1:00:22.400 bird to begin with. So being relatively uncommon is actually beneficial. 1:00:22.600 --> 1:00:23.120 Wow. 1:00:23.400 --> 1:00:26.040 They find some food. It's a quick, easy meal. They 1:00:26.040 --> 1:00:28.240 eat it, gives them a little diarrhea, they poop the 1:00:28.240 --> 1:00:30.640 seeds out. The plant's happy, the bird's happy. No one's 1:00:30.680 --> 1:00:32.240 worse for the wear. If this plant were to become 1:00:32.320 --> 1:00:34.960 common and birds were to gorge themselves on it, you 1:00:35.080 --> 1:00:37.120 might be hearing a different evolutionary story. 1:00:37.400 --> 1:00:38.080 Wow. 1:00:39.000 --> 1:00:42.040 So a tropa like I mentioned also has the toxic 1:00:42.120 --> 1:00:44.480 pollen and the toxic nectar, which brings up a lot 1:00:44.480 --> 1:00:47.880 of questions about pollination. So what they found was that 1:00:47.960 --> 1:00:50.479 the alkaloid content in both the nectar and the pollen 1:00:50.640 --> 1:00:54.000 is significantly higher than it is in other species. Investigated, 1:00:54.000 --> 1:00:56.920 which is interesting. So tropa is really expressing a lot 1:00:56.920 --> 1:01:02.800 of these in weird tissues, but the selective selection hypothesis 1:01:02.920 --> 1:01:06.600 is only part of the alkaloid spectrum is being produced, 1:01:06.640 --> 1:01:09.480 so they don't think it's getting the full complement of 1:01:09.520 --> 1:01:13.440 that chemical cocktail. But on some level that the plant 1:01:13.480 --> 1:01:15.160 just can't help produce it. But it could also help, 1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:20.120 you know, protect from potential you know, pollen thieves, nectar thieves, 1:01:20.480 --> 1:01:22.480 things that want to eat their pollen. So it's this 1:01:22.600 --> 1:01:25.200 trade off, right, there's no like one size fits all solution. 1:01:25.280 --> 1:01:28.160 You can't be the most beneficial thing across the board. 1:01:28.280 --> 1:01:31.080 So you know, okay, you heard a few pollinators here 1:01:31.080 --> 1:01:35.360 and there, you hurt your seed dispersus temporarily, but it's working. Yeah, 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:38.320 it's working. So yeah, it's this idea that not everything 1:01:38.320 --> 1:01:41.120 an evolution should be thought of as hierarchical or being 1:01:41.160 --> 1:01:44.040 better than the other. It's just if it works, it works, right. 1:01:44.120 --> 1:01:46.960 It just can't be less beneficial than it is beneficial. 1:01:47.960 --> 1:01:49.920 I think the most important thing to remember here is, 1:01:49.920 --> 1:01:51.640 at the end of the day, it's a matter of 1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:55.800 variation within a species when it comes to toxicity. And 1:01:56.560 --> 1:01:59.320 you had mentioned someone had said there has been no 1:01:59.520 --> 1:02:02.440 case of a good trip on belladonna, but plenty of 1:02:02.480 --> 1:02:04.880 other members of this family are toyed around with and 1:02:05.000 --> 1:02:08.600 used to one degree or another for recreational purposes. And 1:02:09.120 --> 1:02:11.960 plants are very plastic organisms again because they can't get 1:02:12.000 --> 1:02:14.760 up and move. So keep in mind that across the board, 1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:17.640 the dose is going to depend on where it's growing, 1:02:17.680 --> 1:02:20.480 how it's growing, what conditions the soil are, like how 1:02:20.560 --> 1:02:23.400 much light it was getting all of those things. And 1:02:23.920 --> 1:02:26.479 to pick up one berry and give it to someone 1:02:26.520 --> 1:02:29.120 and say, oh that was fine. You could pick up 1:02:29.160 --> 1:02:30.919 the next berry and that would be the last berry 1:02:31.000 --> 1:02:34.360 anyone ever ate. So in recreating with any of these 1:02:35.320 --> 1:02:38.000 in any way, yeah, don't eat it. But it is 1:02:38.160 --> 1:02:40.360 interesting to mention that even if you're trying to grow 1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:43.080 these plants, there's nothing saying you can't try to grow 1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:46.640 these in your garden. You know, be cautious, right, right right, 1:02:47.200 --> 1:02:50.200 And there's a reason you don't see it being sold 1:02:50.280 --> 1:02:50.680 very often. 1:02:51.360 --> 1:02:52.440 Grow at your own risks. 1:02:52.640 --> 1:02:54.040 Yeah. 1:02:54.080 --> 1:02:56.120 It's a fascinating plant though, And I'm really happy this 1:02:56.240 --> 1:02:57.720 was the one we jumped on. 1:02:57.880 --> 1:02:59.720 Oh my gosh, me too. I feel like we picked 1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:03.919 our first two poison casts like two of the coolest there. 1:03:04.320 --> 1:03:06.320 I mean, that's the thing though, every time I feel 1:03:06.360 --> 1:03:09.240 like you go digging, I know, it becomes this amazing 1:03:09.320 --> 1:03:10.120 fun story. 1:03:10.280 --> 1:03:16.480 Yeah, so thank you so cool it is. Oh my gosh, 1:03:16.480 --> 1:03:19.360 that was the most fun Matt. Thank you so much. 1:03:19.520 --> 1:03:21.800 Yes, thank you both so much for having. 1:03:21.600 --> 1:03:24.960 Me, and thanks everybody for listening. Hopefully you guys enjoyed 1:03:24.960 --> 1:03:25.800 it as much as we did. 1:03:25.960 --> 1:03:28.760 Please follow us on all the social media's. 1:03:28.480 --> 1:03:31.640 Yep where this podcast will Kill You on Facebook and Instagram, 1:03:31.680 --> 1:03:34.880 and TPWKY on Twitter, and. 1:03:35.080 --> 1:03:37.440 Check us out on our website This podcast will kill 1:03:37.480 --> 1:03:38.800 You dot com. 1:03:38.840 --> 1:03:42.560 On our website you'll find all of these sources that 1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:46.360 we use for each episode, the books and the articles 1:03:46.440 --> 1:03:50.360 that we use for research if you'd like to read. 1:03:50.840 --> 1:03:53.280 And what about them drink mixes also. 1:03:53.080 --> 1:03:57.880 Those those those will be on our TV, Instagram, our Facebook, 1:03:57.920 --> 1:04:00.320 our Twitter, etc. Like If you follow us, you'll see 1:04:00.320 --> 1:04:02.040 our recipes. 1:04:01.760 --> 1:04:05.360 And thank you to Bloodmobile, who provided the music for 1:04:05.400 --> 1:04:10.840 this episode in all of our episodes. And finally, wash 1:04:10.880 --> 1:04:12.040 your hands. 1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:14.440 And don't eat strange berries. 1:04:16.840 --> 1:04:18.680 This is just a plug for plant Idea. It can 1:04:18.720 --> 1:04:24.080 help save your life. A