1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: Me your Girl, Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: I'm going to start off by saying, I am not 4 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: feeling well. I have been under the weather for the 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: past couple of days. It is not covid um I 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: have tested. I've just not been feeling well. I've been 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: very tired and lots of like cramping in my stomach. 8 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: So nonetheless, I am taking care of myself, but um, 9 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: taking things a little bit easy for the next couple 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: of days, just to get my strength back. Um. Nonetheless, 11 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: always wok a F and always a new show. So 12 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: I want to start off, folks by telling you about 13 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: my experience over the long holiday weekend and some things 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: that come up and when they come up for me, 15 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: when they come up for people that are close to me, 16 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: I like to share them with all of you because 17 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: I feel like, oftentimes we feel very disconnected and when 18 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: we are going through difficult times, we feel like we 19 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: are incredibly alone and alone in that experience, meaning that 20 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: no one could possibly understand how we are feeling, and 21 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: so that lends us to keep things inside, when in 22 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: fact we need support, right, And so I had the 23 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: wonderful pleasure and time of visiting one of my best 24 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: friends and her family and a couple of our other 25 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: friends for her birthday. And you know, it had been 26 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: a really long time since all of us had been together, 27 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: I mean some of us years that we've been together, 28 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, since before the pandemic. And you know, because 29 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: recognizing that everybody has different risk tolerance levels and so 30 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: some people have gathered you know, beforehand, and others had not. Nonetheless, 31 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, what came up for me is how difficult 32 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: the last two plus years have been for people, and 33 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: how all of us you know, we're all women, and 34 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, we're all queer, some of us are women 35 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: of color, some of us were white. But how we've 36 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: all been dealing with the trauma. That is the only 37 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: word that I can use of the last couple of years. 38 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,839 Speaker 1: Folks have, you know, put their energies into working out, 39 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: Folks have moved outside of the city, wanting like a 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: slower pace in life. Other people had babies. But what 41 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: was evident was that our time together was really nourishing 42 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: for all of us because it had been so long 43 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: since we'd been really in community that we just laughed 44 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: together and made food together and connected and took care 45 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: of the babies together. And you know what I always 46 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: find really interesting anytime that I get ready to write 47 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: something about America, about democracy, about these times, about the pandemic, 48 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: and you know, kind of all these different waves of 49 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: urgency that we are in, what sticks out for me 50 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: the most is how important community is, whether it is 51 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: the community that you live in, the community that you're building, 52 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: the family, community and units that you come from. What's 53 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: really hard about America is that America has consistently, over 54 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: its two hundred and forty some odd years, pushed the 55 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: idea of individualism that in this country. What is really 56 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: problematic I have found is that the individual is more 57 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: important than the collective. And you can look now at 58 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: all of these different points of our society and our 59 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: government that are failing right now and ignized that it 60 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: all comes back to that. It's not even innate, because 61 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: we weren't born with it, but we were in fact 62 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: gas lit into believing or taught that individual rugged, rugged 63 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: individualism was more important than the collective. That rugged individualism 64 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: and they and the ability to climb up that mountain 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: and say that you did so without anyone else's help, 66 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: even though you knew that that wasn't the truth, and 67 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: the people that supported you all on that journey knew 68 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: that that wasn't the truth. But somehow we've become addicted 69 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: to that narrative so much so that you look at 70 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: these you know, very wealthy, normally very white celebrities, whether 71 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: they be from Silicon Valley, whether they be from Hollywood, 72 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: whatever industry that they may be in, but you see 73 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: them on the cover of magazines like Fast Company and Fortune, 74 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: and write ups in the Wall Street Journal about how 75 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: you two can make it if you just believe in 76 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: yourself more, and you know, articles in the New York 77 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: Times going through these wealthy, super wealthy people's daily routines 78 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: as a way that if I can just figure out 79 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: the key to their success, then I too can be 80 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: a multibillionaire. And the reality, right is this, there is 81 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: not one fucking person that has ever made it on 82 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: their own, not one person. I don't care if they 83 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: had the biggest and the best ideas, right I remember, 84 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: and now he's fairly controversial, right, but Malcolm Gladwell had 85 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: written his book that kind of put him on the 86 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: map entitled outliers, and there are lots of tenants of 87 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: outliers that I still believe it right that the amount 88 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: of hours that you are able to put into something 89 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: and his number, his magic number, was ten thousand hours. 90 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: If you ever followed the story of Thomas Edison, right, 91 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: he believed in the fact that you needed to continue 92 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: trying because he failed at creating the light bulb over 93 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: ten thousand times and it was a ten thousand and 94 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: one time, right that you needed to get it right. 95 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: So all of your failures are not what are what 96 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: creates you, but it is really your persistence. But the 97 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,679 Speaker 1: reality is is that even in the story of Thomas Edison, 98 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: that wasn't the fucking truth, right um, that he didn't create, 99 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: right the filament paper that you actually needed in order, 100 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: right um, in order to create the light bulb. And 101 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: I'm just googling real quick, because what drives me crazy 102 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: is that we don't know the name, the name of 103 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: the person as readily as we do um. But one 104 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: of the men, one of the people that was responsible 105 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: for this journey that Thomas Edison took was in fact 106 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: Lewis Howard Latimer. Right. Lewis had Lewis Howard Latimer, a 107 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: black man who was also an inventor, was part of 108 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: that journey, right, And there are people that fact check 109 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: and say, no, it's not and it's Thomas Edison a 110 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: ball blah, because we always love to discount the story 111 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: and the narrative of the white man doing so everything alone, 112 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,119 Speaker 1: right and this creation. And so there's dispute, of course, 113 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: because it is a black person that that was also 114 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: a part of this invention journey. But we don't believe 115 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: in collaboration in this country. We believe in scamming, We 116 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: believe in grifting. We believe in you know, anointing people 117 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: who have been wealthy or become celebrities as new deities, 118 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: right because we worship this. But the reality that I 119 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: witnessed with my friends and that I always, you know, 120 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: feel when I'm with my own family is the importance 121 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: of community, the importance of feeling like that you are 122 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: not doing everything alone, that there are people that are 123 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: there for you to listen to you, to hold you, 124 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: to connect with you. Right, Because you know, at the 125 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: end of the day, why do we have so much grief, 126 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: so much rage, so much you know, sadness, so much frustration, 127 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: so much anxiety, and it is because all people human 128 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: beings want is to be heard, is to be seen right, 129 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: and is to be cared for. That's it. You think 130 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: about racism and how endemic fucking racism is in America. 131 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: I just learned this past week and just again I 132 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: feel consistently robbed by this country and it makes me, 133 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: on many days over the last couple of years, not 134 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: want to fight for it anymore, because I feel like 135 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: fighting for America is fighting for the consistency of a lie. 136 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: You know. So you have the fact that racism is 137 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: so endemic in America, so part of the fabric, that 138 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: every accomplishment, every notable thing that Black people have done, 139 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: that Native American people have done, that Asian people have 140 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: done in this country, that Latin X people have done 141 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: and contributive had all been either ignored, downplayed, or completely erased. 142 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: And that without like the persistence of these communities that 143 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: have been obstructed in their journeys to being able to 144 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: attain whatever we believe the American dream to be. That 145 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 1: even still when I find out little tidbits of information 146 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: like the fact that Albert Einstein in nineteen forty six 147 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: came to the United States and was so taken aback 148 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: by the treatment of black people in this country. And 149 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: he had visited a historically black college and university that 150 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: one of my best friends attended Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, 151 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: small black, historical black university. And he sat down and 152 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: did presided over a lecture with the biggest and brightest 153 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: minds at this university. And what he said on his 154 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 1: upon his visit here, and he was also given an 155 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: honorary doctorate from Lincoln University, a historically black college and university. 156 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: And it was said that Albert Einstein didn't actually, you know, 157 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: take honorary doctorates, right, but this one he did because 158 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: he believed and he had said that America's downfall was 159 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: going to be its addiction to racism, it was going 160 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: to be its treatment of its black population. And you know, 161 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: I continue to say, and I've said it here a 162 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: million times, that where would America be as a producer, 163 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: as a world power if it had not continued to 164 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: purposefully only clear lanes for white Americans. What if everyone 165 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: actually did have the same access to opportunity. What if 166 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: your educational outcomes and your life outcomes couldn't be based 167 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: on your zip colode. What if we didn't blame poverty 168 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: on the people that are suffering in but we blamed 169 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: it on systems that didn't provide the same opportunity in 170 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: the same education that they did wealthier and white people. 171 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: What if we actually told the truth from the beginning, right, 172 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: how rich, how powerful? Right would this nation be because 173 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:12,239 Speaker 1: we would have provided a blueprint on how you overcome trauma, violence, tragedy, 174 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: indifference by actually fucking seeing people and giving a damn right, 175 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: instead of lying to people over and over again and 176 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: saying like, oh what, black people are just too sensitive. Well, 177 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: maybe you would be sensitive too if you were beaten 178 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: and murdered and your church is blown up and your 179 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: children killed and no one gave a damn and the 180 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: legal system looked the other way because they were complicit. 181 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: I find America exhausting. And when I was with my 182 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: friends this weekend, you know, we were saying, you know, 183 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: maybe it's time that we do the extreme thing and 184 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: just create a compound together and live off the fucking grid, 185 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: because it seems that this nation is going down, right, 186 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: and so what can you do to preserve your joy, 187 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: your happiness, your own community, right? Because the community that 188 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: you've been born into is failing you, and it's time 189 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: is up. These are the kind of conversations that I 190 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: have with my friends, and you know, when I came 191 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: back home, I you know, have just been thinking and 192 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: like looking through the headlines and really realizing that nothing 193 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: much has changed since I tapped out to have some 194 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: joy and some community and connectivity. Nothing much has changed. 195 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: Putin is fucking mad and is going to invade Ukraine. 196 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: Republicans are rabid and disgusting, and the candidates that they 197 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: are putting out are celebrating, perpetuating violence and spreading more 198 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: lies that you can get more jail time for dog fighting, 199 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: like Mike Vick did when the whole world wanted to 200 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: turn against this fucking man for doing something heinous. I'm 201 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: not saying that it isn't, but doing dog fighting it 202 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: warrants more time, more outrage from the press than killing 203 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: an unarmed black father, a young man at the beginning 204 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: of his life. Right. So it's it's hard these days, 205 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: folks to not just sit in a state of rage 206 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: to not you know, yesterday, aside from feeling like continuing 207 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: to feel kind of unwell, I took the day you know, 208 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: off right, it was President's Day. It's a fucking federal holiday. 209 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: And the guilt that I felt from laying on my couch, 210 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: from not going through all of my emails for not 211 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, do writing it and op ed and working 212 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: on my book and doing these things and just giving 213 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: myself a goddamn break. Right, Even though I say this 214 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: to you all all the time, I struggle on a 215 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: regular basis to do so. And even when I do, 216 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: I feel the guilt and the weight of not being 217 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: productive every single moment of every single day, because it 218 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: has been told to me right and fed to me 219 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: as a black woman, that that is my sole role 220 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: in this country, in this society, in this world is 221 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: to be the world's fucking you know mule. And it's exhausting. 222 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: Even the feeling of the guilt is exhausting. So coming 223 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: up next is my conversation that I have with doctor 224 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: Inger Burnett Ziegler, and she is a clinical psychologist and 225 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: associate professor at Northwestern University. And I want to read 226 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: you the title of her book that we discussed in 227 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: this interview that I think is really incredible. Nobody knows 228 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: the trouble I've seen exploring the emotional lives of black 229 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: of black women, and the book talks about trauma and 230 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: that eight and ten, so eighty percent of black women 231 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: have experienced some level of severe trauma in their lives 232 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: and are experiencing considerable post traumatic stress disorder and are 233 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: just meant to quote unquote power through. And where does 234 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: the strong black woman stereotype come from? And why aren't 235 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: we allowed to fall apart? Why aren't we allowed to 236 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: show our vulnerabilities? Right? And so this book and this 237 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: interview that we did was really important, and I hope 238 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: that you all enjoy it and get something out of it, 239 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: but also are thinking about the ways in which you 240 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: have been just powering through, right, mindlessly powering through because 241 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: you believe that if you stop, right, if you lay down, 242 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: if you rest, then everything around you was going to 243 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: fall apart. And so I think that it is really 244 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: important to listen to what she is saying, particularly for 245 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: black women because that is who the book is for, 246 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: but for all women who are not at the center 247 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: of this, but also have experienced many levels of trauma, 248 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: holding things in because if you were to express them 249 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: then they would be used against you. So coming up 250 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: next is that conversation. Please let me know in the 251 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: comment sections what you think about this interview and what 252 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: you think about the idea of community and how it 253 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: relates to American society. Folks, I am so excited to 254 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: welcome to woke f Daily for the very first time, 255 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: doctor Inger Burnett Ziggler, who's a clinical psychologist and author 256 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: of a book that I think is I'm wondering why 257 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: it took so long to be written, because it's a 258 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: conversation that we have often nobody knows the trouble I've 259 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: seen uncovering how being a strong black woman or the 260 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: idea of strong black womanhood is something that is steeped 261 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: at times in trauma and being forced to be strong. 262 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: And I think you know recently, I've seen so many memes, 263 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: doctor Burnett Ziggler, so many memes that say normalize not 264 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: being strong, normal normalize rest, normalize asking for help. How 265 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: did this book come about for you? And why do 266 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: you think it's important, particularly now as your your book 267 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: will be coming out later this month. Why is it 268 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: important that we have this conversation about black woman's trauma 269 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: and emotional well being. Well, Danielle, thank you so much 270 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: for having me and giving me the space to have 271 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: this conversation with you and your audience. The inspiration for 272 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: the book was really my grandmother, who was, you know, 273 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: my first example of a strong black women. Like many people, 274 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: kind of their grandmothers play a central role in their lives. 275 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: And even as a little girl, I can remember looking 276 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: up to my grandmother having graduated from college as an adult, 277 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: having you know, purchased her own home in the midst 278 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: of you know, redlining and other racist and discrimination housing 279 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: practices that were being you know, still carried out in Chicago, 280 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 1: and you know, really supporting me in my education and 281 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: you know, helping financially with my education, and not knowing 282 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: until much later in life everything that she had been through, 283 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: had no recollection of that had no recollection of the 284 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: abuse that she had endured with my grandfather, whom she 285 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: had been separated from. Didn't really know the impact of 286 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: kind of moving from the South to the North and 287 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: living in the housing projects, and you know, you know, 288 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: working during the day and going to school at night, 289 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: not knowing about the multiple miscarriages that she had, And 290 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: you know, as I came to kind of reflect on 291 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: her experiences, what I knew as a kid, and then 292 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: how I kind of reshaped this idea of her as 293 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: I got older. I thought that, you know, she's really 294 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: reflective of so many black women's experience. You know, someone 295 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: who's doing it, you know, successful and grinding and taking 296 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: care of the things that they need to take care 297 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: of at school and for their families, but had all 298 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: of this other stuff below the surface that they're grappling 299 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: with that so many others, others even close to them, 300 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: might not know about, might not recognize. And I wanted 301 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: to give light to that because, you know, I think 302 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: that it's important that we share these stories. I think 303 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: it's important for we as black women to know that 304 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: these difficult experiences are common such that folks don't feel alone, 305 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: and it creates an opportunity for being seen, being validated, 306 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 1: creating community, and creating space for moving moving to a 307 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: space of healing. You know, I think about, you know, 308 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: listening to your recount your grandmother's experience, it almost sounds 309 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: as if she lived like multiple lives at one time, right, 310 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: which is which is often for black women because you 311 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,719 Speaker 1: have to wear so many different hats, We have to 312 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: wear so many different masks. And when I think about 313 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: the exploration of the idea of black women's strength. I 314 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: wonder if you know, I think that it is a 315 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: double edged sword. Right. I'm very proud to come from 316 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: a line of powerful matriarchs. Right, I'm very proud when 317 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: people refer to me as a strong black woman. At 318 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: the same time, I look to it as a burden, right, Like, 319 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: when when do I get to lay my head down, 320 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: When do I get to you know, unpack my own pain? 321 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: And do you think that we don't create space for 322 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: black women to be vulnerable? Right? And so because there 323 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: is a because vulnerability is very much tied to a 324 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: sense of safety, right, being being held both you know, physically, 325 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: but emotionally and mentally, that we don't create that space 326 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: that we force black women into finding pride in something 327 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: that is actually can negatively impact their emotional well being. 328 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: I think that's exactly right. And I think that that 329 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: sense of pride with the title the acknowledgement of being 330 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: a strong black woman is one that many people feel, 331 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: including myself. You know, it's an indicator that I made it, 332 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: that I've survived, that I'm still here, that all of 333 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: these difficult things that you know, I'm faced with as 334 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: a black woman on a day to day basis, like 335 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: I'm still standing head headheld high, making it as best 336 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: as I can. But on the flip side of that, 337 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: when a person is kind of wrestling with this internal 338 00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: experience of you know, hurt, sadness, anxiety, fear, shame, and 339 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: not knowing what to do with that, not having a 340 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: place to put that, a place where they feel safe 341 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: being with that, then that that kind of can create 342 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: this tension where there's a sense of you know, putting 343 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: on a facade for the outside world, and that facade 344 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: is distancing, right, It's distancing from being able to connect 345 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: to other people. And then when that happens, you know 346 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 1: a lot of people feel like, well, am I the 347 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: only one? Am I the only one that's going through this? 348 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: And you know that that dynamic is one that really 349 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: became apparent to me and my role as a therapist 350 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: because I saw so many people coming in, you know, 351 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: in the privacy of a therapist office, unloading all of 352 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: the stuff, you know, the burden, the baggage that they 353 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: were carrying and feeling like nobody else was going through. 354 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: But having one person after another after another come in 355 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: kind of share this common experience, I'm able to say, 356 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, there are a lot of people feeling what 357 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: you're feeling. And that was one thing I really hoped 358 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: to kind of communicate with the commonality and these experiences 359 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: through the book. It's so interesting because I think that 360 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: you know, I haven't I haven't seen a lot of 361 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: black women clinical psychologists. UM. And that's that's actually more 362 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: than I would have thought to be, to be HONESTUM. 363 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: And I wonder, how have you had conversations within the 364 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: black community with black people that may come out of 365 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: a place where therapy is stigmatized, right, Like in many 366 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: ways for those people that, UM are our church going 367 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: black folk. You know, you're just told to pray about things, right, UM, pray, 368 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: pray it away, and and that is it, and that 369 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: there there seems to be this sense and I think 370 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: that it's changing now. But I really want your your thoughts. 371 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: You know, about going into therapy was perceived as something 372 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: white people do, right or or you know, wealthy people do, UM, 373 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: and that in caring for you, what does that mean? 374 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: Does that mean that you have the inability to care 375 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: for yourself? Right? So then at once going into any 376 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: type of form of therapy totally pushes against the strong 377 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: black woman stereotype, right, because then are you saying you 378 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: can't carry it all? So how have you dealt with 379 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: that as a as a clinical psychologist kind of you know, 380 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: navigating these multiple narratives that have come out in our community. Yeah, 381 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, I think that that's a really important question. 382 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: That's something that is central to the work that I 383 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: do is understanding how people see themselves as being in 384 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: need of extra support or not and the things that 385 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: can potentially interfere with them getting that support. And I 386 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: think there are a lot of material, systemic factors that 387 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: it's important to name that get in the way of 388 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: people getting necessary support, some being not having enough you know, 389 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: psychologists or psychiatrists or counselors of color, and that being 390 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: a barrier to not feeling safe with a race mismatch provider, 391 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: not having mental health resources in the neighborhood, not having 392 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: insurance coverage for it, not having childcare, and not having transportation, 393 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: like all these concrete barriers. But what you're highlighting equally 394 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: as important, it's what I like to think of as 395 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: like the psychological factors. So not so this stigma absolutely, 396 00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: but additionally identifying yourself as kind of needing help. Right, 397 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: there's for a lot of people the default is I'm fine. 398 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: I don't I don't need therapy. There's nothing wrong. I'm stressed, 399 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: but stress is normal. I'm anxious, but anxious is normal. 400 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: Everybody is depressed. This load that I'm carrying, that's what 401 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: I see, all the women, all the black women, my grandmama, 402 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: Auntie's around me. This is something that this burden has 403 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: become so familiar. So this is just what I'm supposed 404 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: to do. And to your point, if if I need 405 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: extra help, then the church or prayer or spirituality is 406 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: where the plate the first line of resource to to 407 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,479 Speaker 1: get some relief from the suffering. And so you know, 408 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: I think it's absolutely right that for one to contend 409 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: with the idea that I might need something more is 410 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: a difficult thing sometimes for people to come to terms with. 411 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: Even after they may get to the therapist's office, there's 412 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: still kind of that attension of what does it mean 413 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: for me to be here? This is me and I'm weak, 414 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm crazy, I can't handle it. I'm not strong. Um. 415 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: What I like to tell people is taking care of yourself, 416 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: identifying I need some extra support, to be able to 417 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: do the things that I want to do, that I 418 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: need to do that other people are depending on me 419 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: to do. Is being strong, right. Not having that support 420 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: is wearing yourself down in a way that you may 421 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: not be able to show up how you like. You know, 422 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: my my mother is a is a is a yogi 423 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: and she ons a yoga studio at least on Long Island, 424 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: and um, and she often says, you cannot pour from 425 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: an empty cup, right. This is this is things that 426 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: she would tell her her yogis and you know it also, 427 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: it always struck me because the idea, yeah, I also 428 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: think that is attached to and is part of the 429 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: strong black woman narrative is the sense of martyrdom. Right, 430 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: and so I must do for everyone else around me 431 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: to the point of exhaustion, right, because that is what uh, 432 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: that is what success looks like. Right, that everyone else 433 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: is okay, but that if I take the time to 434 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: fill myself up, then somehow that is a selfish act. 435 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: How do you how do you help black women navigate that? 436 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: Because I you know, we we hear a lot now, 437 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: particularly um, you know, during the height of the pandemic, 438 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: right where many folks who you know, if they were 439 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: fortunate enough not to lose their lose their jobs, we're 440 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: able to kind of go internally, right. I know that 441 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: that was that was the privilege that I had, right, 442 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: was to really take this deep dive into what does 443 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: joy look like, what does happiness look like, what does 444 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: it mean to be healthy? What does balance actually feel like? 445 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: How do you help, you know, black women kind of 446 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: walk this balance beam because there's so much it's it's 447 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: not just, you know, the burdens of being a woman. 448 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: It's not just the at times frustration, even though there's 449 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: no other choice that I would make to be black. 450 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: But what you're the cuts, you know, the death by 451 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: a thousand cuts that we are dealing with on a 452 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: day to day. How do you move people from this 453 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: belief that going deep, going inside, having this self care 454 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: isn't selfish, that it's necessary. Yeah, you know, I think 455 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: you're so right when you point out the centrality of 456 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: martyrdom to what it means to be a strong black woman. 457 00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: And what I try to hack with some of the 458 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: people that I'm working with is how some pieces of 459 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: feeling relied upon, dependent upon the one that can handle it, 460 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: the one that everybody goes to it feels good to 461 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: be identified as that person. Right. It's heavy and overwhelming 462 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: and frustrating, but there can sometimes be that a little 463 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: bit of ego wrapped up in while I'm the one 464 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: that has to kind of show up for everyone else 465 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: and if not, then everything will fall apart. And so, 466 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: you know, part of it is challenging that narrative. How 467 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: you can kind of read align that system that often 468 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,239 Speaker 1: that family system where perhaps people are overreliant on you 469 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: in a way that's not healthy for you. And then secondly, 470 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: how you can insert yourself in the list of priorities 471 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: where work is a priority, family as a priority, already, 472 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: the church is a priority, community as a priority. And 473 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: the question I ask people is like, where are you? 474 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: Where do you fit into this? How are you? You know, 475 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: what does it mean for you to be sacrificing yourself 476 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: in service of everyone else? And you're you're mad about it, right, 477 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: Like you're mad that you know that people aren't there 478 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: for you in the same way that you're there for them, 479 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: that you don't get to do the things that you 480 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: want to do. So how can we together kind of 481 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: identify you know, your needs, where you fit into the 482 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: list of priorities and as you said, what brings you joy? 483 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: So often ask people what do you want? And it's 484 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: it's shocking still how hard that question can be for 485 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: some folks to answer. What does happiness look like for you? 486 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: If you have the space, if you created the space, 487 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: how would you use that space? It's so funny because 488 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: like those are the questions, Like those are to me, 489 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: Like what I have learned? Like what has come up 490 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: for me over the past uh, you know, year plus 491 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: and I share with folks, um you know my audience 492 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: all the time, you know, my journey to self care 493 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: and like deep you know, emotional health right, like centering 494 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: that uh you know, you list out all these things 495 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: that are priorities and it's like I found that I 496 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: needed to radically reorient my life right and put myself 497 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, and recognize that like how can I give 498 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: to the work? You know, working on in social justice, 499 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: whether it is podcasting, writing, you know, or what have 500 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: you is an agonizing place to be at times, right 501 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: because you're throwing all of this energy in and you 502 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: see very little progress. You see a lot more bad 503 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: headlines right of lives lost and tragedy that is and 504 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: trauma inflicted on the community. And I and I've told 505 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: people you know that if you don't take breaks, you 506 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: will have a breakdown, right, Like, if you don't if 507 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 1: you don't take an opportunity to ask yourself those fundamental questions, 508 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: what does joy look like for me? You know, we 509 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: throw these words around like happiness and you know, um 510 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: and connection and community, but what does that actually mean 511 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: for you? How does that show up? How do you 512 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: want it to show up? And I think oftentimes we 513 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: don't even ask black women those questions, right And and 514 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: so if you're if those questions aren't asked and no 515 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: one is modeling uh it for you, it's unlikely that 516 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: you'll end up asking yourself. You know. Yeah, I think 517 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And to get to that space of 518 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: self as a priority, self care as a priority, m 519 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: having the time and energy for joy. One of the 520 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: central kind of behavioral steps towards that is often creating 521 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: boundaries around what you're giving energy to other people, other tasks, 522 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: everyone else that's pulling at you. And there can be 523 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,439 Speaker 1: a really strong tension around that because it's, well, how 524 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: is the other person going to respond? As you said, 525 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: if I radically reorient myself in this way. And I 526 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: tell people, you know, when you're changing, you are disrupting 527 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: the system. You're disrupting us that's been put in place, 528 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: that is serving others and maybe not serving you as 529 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: much as it could be. And there is likely to 530 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 1: be a response to that. So how can and this 531 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: is a therapy setting I'm talking about, how can we 532 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: think about you know, you tolerating that discomfort of someone 533 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: else when you say, you know what, I can't do 534 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: that for you this time, I'm sorry. And they're mad, 535 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: and they're mad, you know they're mad, and and and 536 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: and also you know you brought up the word boundaries 537 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: because what we find too is that when black women 538 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: set up boundaries, right, then what are the things that 539 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: we hear where bitch angry? You know, people don't you know, 540 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 1: you're you're not a team play if it's in a 541 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: work setting, you're not a team player. Um, all of 542 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: these then negative stereotypes come around and it's just like 543 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: I'm just literally creating space for myself and you're negating that. 544 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,959 Speaker 1: I also think too, um, the idea of growth, right, 545 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 1: and you you said, you know, change and oftentimes there 546 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: are people around you who are very happy with you 547 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: staying exactly the way you are, And how do you 548 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: help women understand that too, that change should be evolution 549 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: is inevitable and it should be our goal and that 550 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: you know, if if if there are people that are 551 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: in your life that are uncomfortable with your with you 552 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: changing and evolving, how do you help them manage that? Yeah, 553 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: you know, I think one piece of that is identifying 554 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: the spaces or people in your life that are kind 555 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 1: of draining you and those that are filling you up. 556 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: And so, you know, often I'll talk to people about, 557 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, how is this, how is this setting? How 558 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: is this person serving you? Right? And usually there is 559 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: a there's a back and forth right in a in 560 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: a healthy relationship, like you're putting something out and you're 561 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: getting something back in return that feels good or meet 562 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: some need for you. But also, you know, people might 563 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: identify that, you know, they're the ones that are always 564 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 1: putting out and they're not getting anything back from a 565 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: particular situation. So that might be one in which you know, 566 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: you want to start to either completely separate yourself from 567 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: or put some boundaries around the way that you engage 568 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: in that and reorient yourself again to those spaces that 569 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: will be more fulfilling, nurturing, you know, producing joy. Yeah. 570 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: For the last year plus, I started a meditation practice. 571 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: I've been in therapy for four years, you know, thankfully, 572 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: as a way to understand myself and my relationships and 573 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: why I engage the way that I do, and just 574 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: wanting to be better right like I want, you know, 575 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: my goal is always to be the best version of myself. 576 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: The show is called Woke af but right, how I 577 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 1: look at it now isn't just about the political context 578 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: of it, but how to how to live consciously? Conscious 579 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 1: living right? And what does it mean to live awake? Uh? 580 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: In all in all various aspects of your life. And 581 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 1: so you know, in in thinking about that what it 582 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: means to be conscious is I'm wondering as people as 583 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: we are moving um out of this pandemic stage. We're 584 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: not done with COVID nineteen, but restrictions have been lifted, 585 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 1: and there are so many expectations once again that are 586 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: that are starting to rear their heads of people showing 587 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: up and wanting to reconnect. What advice do you have 588 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: for this re engaging that we're doing in society after 589 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: so many, many months apart for those people that may 590 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: have learned things about themselves and now they're no longer 591 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: the same person that they were pre pandemic, which I 592 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,879 Speaker 1: know is true for many people, it's certainly true for me. 593 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: And so what advice do you have for people as 594 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: they you know, seek this this new normal right that 595 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: they don't want to go back to what was um 596 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: but but there is still a lot of anxiety there 597 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: about being accepted, right, about being welcomed in the in 598 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: the new version of themselves. Yeah, first, I really want 599 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:22,240 Speaker 1: to acknowledge what you said about the role of yoga. 600 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: You mentioned yoga earlier and meditation or mindfulness and it's 601 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: um it's utility in the space of self care and wellness. 602 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: Those are practices that I really embody, that I tried 603 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,919 Speaker 1: to incorporate in my therapy practice. And you know, when 604 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,320 Speaker 1: I think about um, the role that yoga has played 605 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: in my personal life in terms of starting off as 606 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: someone who was highly anxious, highly um you know, kind 607 00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: of stuck in my head, concerned about you know, self 608 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: judgment and perception and perfectionism, and you know, it showed 609 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: up physically in my body both the racing thoughts as 610 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 1: well as the physical sensations of heart racing and shaking 611 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: and all of that. And yoga really was transformative for 612 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: me in terms of really understanding how stress and trauma 613 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,439 Speaker 1: and the pressures of being a black woman can show 614 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:35,720 Speaker 1: up physically and emotionally. And then a meditation and grew 615 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: out of that. And so I just want to acknowledge that, 616 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: you know, that's something that I really that really resonates 617 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: with me as well. But to go back to the 618 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,800 Speaker 1: point about COVID, you know, I think this has been 619 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:55,399 Speaker 1: a really important moment, particularly for black women, because you know, 620 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: another what I see as core aspect of being a 621 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: strong black woman is being due earth. Being busy and 622 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: business can be a distraction. Business can be an unhealthy 623 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: coping mechanism because it's a lot it's a way for 624 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: us to not attend to, you know, the internal experience. 625 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: And in many ways this forced some people to sit 626 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: with themselves. I mean, that's you know, a piece of 627 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: what meditation and mindfulness is is to be in stillness 628 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,880 Speaker 1: and see what shows up. And that was hard for 629 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,399 Speaker 1: a lot of people. You know, I saw a lot 630 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: of people, like even in COVID even not being able 631 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,720 Speaker 1: to do do do the way they typically would, finding 632 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: something else to not be with the thoughts, not be 633 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: with themselves. But for some folks, it was an opportunity 634 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 1: to notice what's showing up, to notice that distress, to 635 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:04,799 Speaker 1: practice different ways of self care or stillness, um connection, 636 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:10,240 Speaker 1: even um that they may not have really given themselves 637 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,719 Speaker 1: space for if all of the business of the outside 638 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 1: world had still been present. And so you know, my advice, 639 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: if you will moving out of this, would be to 640 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: hold on to the slower pace, yeah, um, to hold 641 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:36,800 Speaker 1: on to um opportunities to just be rather than do um. 642 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 1: Hold on to mydful awareness and mindful connection with others, 643 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: because I mean, it's happening now in the wink of 644 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 1: an eye. It's like all the stuff. And trust me, 645 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,439 Speaker 1: I looked at I looked at my calendar this week 646 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: and I said, oh, damn, I guess I guess we're 647 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:58,799 Speaker 1: back in the shack. I was just like, oh, okay um, 648 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,280 Speaker 1: and and needing to check in with myself like, wait, 649 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: are you doing? Are you saying yes to these things 650 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 1: out of a sense of joy again asking myself that question, 651 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,919 Speaker 1: or out of a sense of obligation because I don't 652 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: want to move back into a sense where my calendar 653 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: is completely full. I have created no space for myself 654 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: because I feel obligated now that we're moving outside of 655 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: our pods back into general population, to say yes to everything. 656 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: And so that's kind of the you know, the point 657 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: that I you know that you're making, which is you know, 658 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: to continue, like if the slow pace was working for 659 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: you right then to figure out ways in which you 660 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: keep that going, and that before we say are reflexive 661 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,279 Speaker 1: yes to things, to actually check in and say is 662 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: this what I want? That's right? Yeah? I tell I 663 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: tell people all the time to practice pausing because I 664 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 1: love that into that reflexive you know, and it could 665 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: be a moment or two or three, and make intentional 666 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 1: responses to what we're doing, to what we're saying yes do, 667 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,840 Speaker 1: because it can happen so fast and before you know, 668 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,399 Speaker 1: we're back to the chaos that we started off with. One. 669 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,400 Speaker 1: I love that practice pausing. I'm going to use that. 670 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 1: I will. I will note that it's from you. I will, 671 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,160 Speaker 1: but it is from you, but I'm going to I'm 672 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: going to hold on to that because I think it's important. 673 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,719 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, doctor, Burnette Sigler for making the 674 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: time to join wokeay Fum folks. The book is Nobody 675 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 1: Knows the Trouble I've seen the emotional lives of Black women, 676 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,239 Speaker 1: and it will be available in all the places at 677 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 1: the end of this month. Thank you so very much 678 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,239 Speaker 1: for the work that you're doing and the and the 679 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 1: time that you gave us today, my pleasure. That is 680 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: it for me today. Dear friends here on wokeay f 681 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 1: As always, power to the people and to all the people. Power, 682 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.