WEBVTT - ICYMI: President ... Mark Cuban?

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Tim

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<v Speaker 2>Stenovek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, he's a billionaire with decades of experience playing a

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<v Speaker 3>rich guy in the press. He took a stick to

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<v Speaker 3>a TV network. He starred in a primetime reality show.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a fan of Ain RAN's The fountain Head. He's

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<v Speaker 3>a fixture on the Manaverse podcast circuit.

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<v Speaker 4>Is this Donald Trump?

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<v Speaker 1>He likes crypto sounds like Donald Trump?

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<v Speaker 4>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, he's been mocked for being less accomplished and than

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<v Speaker 3>his networth would suggest. And no, Carol, I'm not talking

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<v Speaker 3>about Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking about Mark Cuban.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a sports mogul, a small business influencer, a media personality,

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<v Speaker 3>a healthcare disruptor, and perhaps the ultimate Trump foil. Max

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<v Speaker 3>Chafkin and John Tazzi profile Mark Cuban and the forthcoming

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<v Speaker 3>new issue of Bloomberg Business Week. It's the July issue.

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<v Speaker 3>It's out on newsstand soon, but you can read the

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<v Speaker 3>story right now on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg dot com.

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<v Speaker 3>Max is Bloomberg Business We call him this. He's also

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<v Speaker 3>the co host of the Elining Podcast. John is Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 3>News healthcare reporter. Both join us here in the Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 3>Interactive Brokers studio.

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<v Speaker 1>Max. I want to start with you. Wait, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to know.

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<v Speaker 4>Is it up in the food car court and you

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<v Speaker 4>guys were grabbing some coffee and you're like that Mark

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<v Speaker 4>Cuban guy and you're like, yeah, we gotta do a story.

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<v Speaker 2>No. I mean the way the genesis of this is

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<v Speaker 2>that John, who's been following the healthcare industry. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>Cuban got on his radar because Cuban has been doing

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<v Speaker 2>some really interesting things there. And where I got interested

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<v Speaker 2>in it is all this buzz around Cuban as a

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<v Speaker 2>political figure, and it seemed, you know, it seemed like

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<v Speaker 2>an interesting thing because on one hand, he is this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of somewhat goofy, somewhat unseerious reality TV personality. On

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<v Speaker 2>the other hand, he's doing something serious in healthcare. And

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<v Speaker 2>we've just learned that being a little goofy, being a

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<v Speaker 2>little unserious sometimes it can work politically. It obviously works

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<v Speaker 2>politically really well for Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, let's talk about the serious stuff that he's doing

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<v Speaker 3>in healthcare, cost plus drugs. John Tazzi, Yeah, there's a

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<v Speaker 3>good portion of the piece that's dedicated to explaining the

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<v Speaker 3>intricacies of buying certain drugs in the US, and I

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<v Speaker 3>was shocked to find the price differences.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah. I mean, Mark Cuban launed this company that launched

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<v Speaker 5>in the public, you know, several years ago, started working

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<v Speaker 5>on it with an entrepreneur in twenty eighteen, initially as

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<v Speaker 5>kind of just an investment, just another kind of portfolio

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<v Speaker 5>company put some money into, but he got really involved

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<v Speaker 5>and became a co founder. And now this is sort

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<v Speaker 5>of what he's spending a lot of his time on.

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<v Speaker 5>He's going to conferences. He's going to like small wonky

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<v Speaker 5>health conferences that you don't expect, you know, a lot

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<v Speaker 5>of boldface names.

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<v Speaker 3>At But there's something that really resonates with Americans about healthcare.

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<v Speaker 3>You've written a lot about United Healthcare and the aftermath

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<v Speaker 3>of of the murder of a healthcare executive here in

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<v Speaker 3>New York in December, and the frustration that Americans had.

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<v Speaker 3>There's something that's sort of visceral when it comes to

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<v Speaker 3>tackling this problem. Yeah, and having someone like Mark Cuban

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<v Speaker 3>do it.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And what he marked, what he did is he

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<v Speaker 5>came in and looked at this market prescription drugs where

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<v Speaker 5>there are just vast inefficiencies. There are things that make

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<v Speaker 5>no sense, and we've written about them, we've talked about

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<v Speaker 5>them here. You know, drugs that cost you know, thousands

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<v Speaker 5>or tens of thousands of dollars in one place that

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<v Speaker 5>you know are cost a tiny fraction of that for

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<v Speaker 5>the person acquiring them, and you know, huge markups being

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<v Speaker 5>taken in the middle And what he's trying to do

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<v Speaker 5>is kind of go into those transactions and sort of

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<v Speaker 5>take out the middleman and make these medications available for

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<v Speaker 5>people paying cash without their insurance at a more affordable

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<v Speaker 5>price than they sometimes get when they go through the

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<v Speaker 5>traditional channels.

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<v Speaker 4>I got to say, you wade into something like drug

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<v Speaker 4>costs and healthcare, and all of a sudden you're you know,

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<v Speaker 4>you're tackling what has been, as we've been talking, one

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<v Speaker 4>of the biggest problems.

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<v Speaker 2>That are around.

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<v Speaker 4>And there are other billionaires who've been like tackling, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>trying to trying to look for some solutions, whether it's uh,

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<v Speaker 4>Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Jamie Diamond who teamed up. I remember,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, we were all reporting and thinking, okay, they're

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<v Speaker 4>going to be able to fix all of this. Having

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<v Speaker 4>said that, you wade into an area like drug costs

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<v Speaker 4>and all of a sudden it's a real political kind

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<v Speaker 4>of field, right, and you wonder, Okay, what else does

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<v Speaker 4>he want to do because it's a it's a big

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<v Speaker 4>beast of a problem.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I mean there's something inherently politically political about

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<v Speaker 2>talking about this stuff just because it's a thing that

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<v Speaker 2>makes people angry. Also, you know, a lot of the

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<v Speaker 2>solutions here are going to require some form of regulation

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<v Speaker 2>or government spending. And also Cuban is just politically involved.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean he was during the Harris campaign. 're in

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<v Speaker 2>the twenty twenty four election. He was like a really

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<v Speaker 2>important surrogate for Kamala Harris. He was on the campaign trail.

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<v Speaker 2>He was kind of crafting or attempting to essentially sell

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<v Speaker 2>Harris to the business community and sell Harris as a

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<v Speaker 2>moderate on economic issues. And that is sort of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if you think about different directions the Democratic Party could

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<v Speaker 2>go in twenty twenty eight, you know, one of them

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<v Speaker 2>would be some sort of moderate approach. And Cuban is

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<v Speaker 2>very attractive and there are a lot of like Democratic

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<v Speaker 2>political consultant types who are excited about this, a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of Republican political consultant types who are thinking about this already,

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<v Speaker 2>because not only does he have this kind of identity

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<v Speaker 2>as a as a moderate, as a business guy, solutions oriented,

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<v Speaker 2>but he's really good on camera and he's also good

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<v Speaker 2>at sort of sounding like a real person. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that kept coming up in my reporting how

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<v Speaker 2>important that is. And when you look at when we

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<v Speaker 2>talk to Cuban about like what went wrong with Harris,

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<v Speaker 2>that's kind of what he Keety Cayden on. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>she didn't know how to sell, that's what he said,

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<v Speaker 2>and and that she you know, she wasn't herself. It's this,

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<v Speaker 2>it's this kind of like incredibly difficult thing for a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of politicians, and I think especially for the type

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<v Speaker 2>person Mark Cuban is a business guy, somebody who hasn't

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<v Speaker 2>been in that spotlight. To be able to thread that

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<v Speaker 2>needle to sound like a normal person while also being moderate,

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<v Speaker 2>like it makes him politically potent.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I want to go back to this comparison

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<v Speaker 3>that I was talking about earlier. Then you guys laid

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<v Speaker 3>that out perfectly. I read right from your story. You

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<v Speaker 3>actually suggested Max to Mark Cuban that he's had a

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<v Speaker 3>similar career trajectory to President Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>What happened, he.

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<v Speaker 2>Did not, he did not react well he can called

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<v Speaker 2>it the meanest thing anybody's ever said to me. And

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<v Speaker 2>John and I were sitting there with him, and I

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<v Speaker 2>really did think for a second, you know, he's a

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<v Speaker 2>big dude.

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<v Speaker 1>He was gonna throw us out, I know.

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<v Speaker 2>And the thing is he was kidding to some extent anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>But he and Trump have been kind of publicly feuding

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<v Speaker 2>for almost twenty years. It goes all the way back

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<v Speaker 2>to The Apprentice, when shortly after Trump launched The Apprentice,

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<v Speaker 2>Cuban launched his own show. They sort of traded punches

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<v Speaker 2>back then, they traded verbal punches during the Obama administration.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Cuban is sort of an effective critic of

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump, partly because they are kind of similar, because

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<v Speaker 2>they are both sort of professional billionaires, guys who play

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<v Speaker 2>billionaires on TV, and Cuban is able to sort of

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<v Speaker 2>effectively point to some of the ways that Trump's you know, personality,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, sort of like the character he plays doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>really live up to the reality.

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<v Speaker 4>However, he didn't carry his own reality show he didn't

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<v Speaker 4>do as well as Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 5>And the other point that Cuban makes in terms of

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<v Speaker 5>their differences is that he is a self made billionaire

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<v Speaker 5>and you know, kind of worked his way up, started companies,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, started selling trash bags door to door, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>and that he has that background that the president doesn't.

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<v Speaker 4>I love the highlight quote the difference Mark Cuban says

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<v Speaker 4>is he never had to start from broke.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. You brought up the difference between Apprentice and

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<v Speaker 2>Shark Tank, and I do think that's an interesting it's

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<v Speaker 2>an interesting contrast, and again it shows you why Cuban

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<v Speaker 2>could be politically potent.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>On The Apprentice, it ends with this kind of ritual

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<v Speaker 2>humiliation Donald Trump's firing someone, which course is very entertaining.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think one of the reasons cuban show, which

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<v Speaker 2>was called The Benefactor, didn't work is that Cuban was

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<v Speaker 2>too nice.

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<v Speaker 4>He you know, nice shark. I'm gonna I'm a huge

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<v Speaker 4>fan of that show and he's always the nice shark.

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<v Speaker 2>So Cuban playing this kind of nice guy on this

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<v Speaker 2>as a supporting role that was really effective. The other

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<v Speaker 2>thing I think made him sort of beloved both on

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<v Speaker 2>Shark Tank. Well, initially on Shark Tank was just the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that he's the richest and most successful person there.

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<v Speaker 2>He's the only billionaire of those judges, and he is

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<v Speaker 2>the one who's kind of back the goofy companies. He's

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<v Speaker 2>taken not quite as seriously in the same way that

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<v Speaker 2>cubans as a sports owner. As the owner of the Mavericks.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of what made him fun as an owner is

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<v Speaker 2>that he's the billionaire, but he's also acting like a fan.

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<v Speaker 2>He's running up and down the court, he's acting like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, goofy, he's booing, he's doing all this stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that a billionaire would not normally do, and that, of

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<v Speaker 2>course can be attractive.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's the perfect segue to talk about the genesis

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<v Speaker 3>of cost plus drugs because as a shark on Shark Tank,

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<v Speaker 3>he had this inbox where he would get all these

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<v Speaker 3>emails you Max and John Wright in the piece John

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<v Speaker 3>and back in twenty twelve or a few years I

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<v Speaker 3>should say perhaps a few years after that, because it

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<v Speaker 3>was around the Martin Screlly time. Ye twenty eighteen is

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<v Speaker 3>when this guy alexsk Oshmayansky got in touch with him.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep, what happened yep.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 5>Alex Oshmyansky is a radiologist entrepreneur who is following the

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<v Speaker 5>drama around drug prices and Martin Screlly raising prices of

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<v Speaker 5>some older off patent drugs that attracted you know, a

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<v Speaker 5>lot of attention, a lot of criticism, and he said,

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<v Speaker 5>why don't we start a company where we can make

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<v Speaker 5>some of these drugs that are in short supply and

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<v Speaker 5>kind of solve some of these problems in the market

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<v Speaker 5>and kind of eliminate the window for people to take

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<v Speaker 5>advantage of shortages by raising prices. So he came to

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<v Speaker 5>you know, he cold pitched Mark Cuban through an email

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<v Speaker 5>with this idea. The I think the company was originally

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<v Speaker 5>called something like Osh's Affordable Pharmaceuticals.

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<v Speaker 1>Doesn't have the same ring to it.

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<v Speaker 5>Doesn't have the same rings, but and you know, Cuban

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<v Speaker 5>bit and he invested and kind of took an interest

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<v Speaker 5>in the business, and it became what's now known as

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<v Speaker 5>as cost Plus. A lot of people who know cost

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<v Speaker 5>Plus know kind of the mail order website primarily for

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<v Speaker 5>generic drugs, some brand drugs available and but mostly lower

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<v Speaker 5>cost generics. But there are other elements they're trying to

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<v Speaker 5>build out too. And you know what they articulate is

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<v Speaker 5>really they're trying to kind of build an alternative to

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<v Speaker 5>the existing pharmacy benefit managers the way most people get

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<v Speaker 5>prescription drugs. They're trying to build something outside of that

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<v Speaker 5>system to compete with it. It's not really there yet

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<v Speaker 5>as a full service solution. You know, there are a

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<v Speaker 5>number of drugs you can't get. You often can't use

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<v Speaker 5>your insurance through the site. It sometimes can be much

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<v Speaker 5>less expensive than going through your insurance, but it's not always.

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<v Speaker 5>Sometimes you pay.

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<v Speaker 4>You can't get JLP one drugs there.

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<v Speaker 5>You can't get GLP ones for the most part.

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<v Speaker 3>Right now, just an anecdote to share about cost Plus.

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<v Speaker 3>I have a friend who works for a company that

0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.400
<v Speaker 3>owns one of the large PBMs. I will not say

0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.720
<v Speaker 3>which one it is. He told me a generic medication

0:11:57.800 --> 0:11:59.320
<v Speaker 3>that he was trying to get, a rubber He works

0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.400
<v Speaker 3>for one of these company. He's like, that's his insurance, right,

0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.840
<v Speaker 3>he works for one of these companies. It was like

0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.000
<v Speaker 3>an eighth of the price to get it at cost

0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.640
<v Speaker 3>plus Drugs versus going through his own company.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, so he works for one of these pbis.

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<v Speaker 4>Which is which is amazing, which is crazy, right, So

0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:15.480
<v Speaker 4>it makes me ask him just as we kind of

0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.320
<v Speaker 4>wrap up, because you know, we know Zacumen, you know,

0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.560
<v Speaker 4>in terms of a businessman, he's a billionaire sports he's

0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.640
<v Speaker 4>doing this, you know, trying to solve some of the

0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.360
<v Speaker 4>problems in the pharmaceutical industry.

0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, is this.

0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.319
<v Speaker 4>Enough for him, let me start with you Max, for

0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.480
<v Speaker 4>him to ultimately get to the White House.

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.880
<v Speaker 2>So Cuban has basically so far going to do it,

0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.920
<v Speaker 2>but he hasn't quite He isn't like one hundred percent

0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.200
<v Speaker 2>ruled it out. You know, in various interviews with us

0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 2>he said not interested, I believe. But anyway, he's he's

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.920
<v Speaker 2>he's sort of pushed this down. You know, when you

0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:54.240
<v Speaker 2>talk to people in democratic politics though, and in policies general,

0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.600
<v Speaker 2>they say, is what Cuban is doing is number one,

0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.439
<v Speaker 2>exactly what you would do if you were running for president.

0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:01.520
<v Speaker 2>You know. He he's doing a lot of interviews with

0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.320
<v Speaker 2>political journalists. He's going to in addition to healthcare events,

0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.480
<v Speaker 2>he's going to political events. He is really putting himself

0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 2>out there in a way that raises his profile, that

0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.240
<v Speaker 2>allows them to test messaging. And then the other thing

0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:18.440
<v Speaker 2>is the way the Democratic Party is now basically somebody

0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:20.599
<v Speaker 2>like Mark Cuban has to be taken seriously. There is

0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.080
<v Speaker 2>as we saw with this in New York.

0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:23.439
<v Speaker 1>City, it is wide open.

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.720
<v Speaker 2>There are a lot of potential paths for Democrats to take.

0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.800
<v Speaker 2>And you know, obviously one version of that is is

0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of the progressive populist left. But there's another that

0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.160
<v Speaker 2>is this kind of Mark Cuban style thing, and that

0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.360
<v Speaker 2>lane is definitely going to be there during the twenty

0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.640
<v Speaker 2>twenty eight primary. And it's kind of a question of

0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.600
<v Speaker 2>who occupies it. Cuban being an entrepreneurial guy, being a

0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.480
<v Speaker 2>guy who you know likes to be in the center

0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 2>of things. You would never say, never listen.

0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 4>I'll bets are off. I think I feel like when

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.200
<v Speaker 4>it comes to the political landscape, we got to unfortunately

0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.520
<v Speaker 4>leave it there. It's an incredible deep dive and a

0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.599
<v Speaker 4>great read. Max Chafkin Calmness at Bloomberg business Week, co

0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.400
<v Speaker 4>host of the elon Ink podcast here in studio along

0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.000
<v Speaker 4>with John Tazzi, healthcare reporter Bloomberg News. This is what

0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.920
<v Speaker 4>we love about Bloomberg, these types of collaborations. Check it

0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 4>out the story and the upcoming new issue of Bloomberg

0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 4>BusinessWeek Magazine. Thank you, guys

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Ch