WEBVTT - S1: Ep 4 - The Body Keeps the Score

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<v Speaker 1>Hi all, we have some exciting news to share. Paramount

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<v Speaker 1>Plus has turned Burden of Guilt into a docuseries. You

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<v Speaker 1>will get to meet the people involved, You'll hear from

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<v Speaker 1>the people who have never spoken before, and you get

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<v Speaker 1>to see where the story took place. We are so

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<v Speaker 1>proud and excited to share it with you. You can

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<v Speaker 1>stream it right now on Paramount Plus. Nearly two decades

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<v Speaker 1>after her baby brother's death, Tracy Riquel Burns had finally

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<v Speaker 1>captured the attention of law enforcement. Her fight was now

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<v Speaker 1>their fight. And despite medical records that stated mother says

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<v Speaker 1>two year old threw baby out of crib and that's

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<v Speaker 1>what led to his death, Decab County officials did not

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<v Speaker 1>think Tercy Riquel killed the four month old baby. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>in December nineteen ninety six, they felt they had enough

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<v Speaker 1>evidence to indict Tracy Riquel's father, Jan Barry Sandlin. They

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<v Speaker 1>unearthed Matthew's tiny casket from the grave twenty six years

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<v Speaker 1>after his death. They dug into the ground, expecting dust. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>they struck gold. I'm Nancy Glass. This is Burden of Guilt.

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<v Speaker 1>Episode four, The body keeps the score. After four month

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<v Speaker 1>old Matthew's casket was exzoomed from the cemetery. It was

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<v Speaker 1>driven to the Medical Examiner's office in Birmingham, Alabama, where

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<v Speaker 1>a new autopsy would be performed. Medical Examiner doctor Burton,

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<v Speaker 1>his team, and the prosecutors were present. Former Assistant District

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney Lee and Mangone.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember doctor Burton talking about Matthew using his name,

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<v Speaker 2>and that really stuck with me that there was a

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<v Speaker 2>level of compassion about the experience and not just looking

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<v Speaker 2>at what we were doing is exhooming a body, but

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<v Speaker 2>looking at it as trying to find out the truth

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<v Speaker 2>of what happened to Matthew.

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<v Speaker 1>Former Decab County District Attorney Jay Tom Morgan.

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<v Speaker 3>Our protocol requires that when there's a death of a child,

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<v Speaker 3>a prosecutor be present for the autopsy. It helps us

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<v Speaker 3>understand what the doctor is going to testify to you later.

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<v Speaker 3>When the casket was opened, that putrid smell came out,

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<v Speaker 3>and I distinctly remember.

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<v Speaker 1>It, and everyone was surprised by that smell because it

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<v Speaker 1>indicated that human remains still existed. Because of that, there

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<v Speaker 1>was hope that the exhumation would pay off. Lead Assistant

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<v Speaker 1>District Attorney Jeff Brickman was there.

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<v Speaker 4>I remember doctor Burton carefully opening the casket and remember seeing.

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<v Speaker 5>A little boy completely intact.

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<v Speaker 1>Medical examiner doctor Stephen Duntan.

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<v Speaker 5>There was still hair on his scalp, and he was

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<v Speaker 5>dressed as an infant would be.

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<v Speaker 2>It was an unforgettable, horrible, unimaginable moment. I had to

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<v Speaker 2>step away.

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<v Speaker 3>Doctor Burton gently lift the child out of the casket,

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<v Speaker 3>took him to the hypopsy table and cut the clothes

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<v Speaker 3>off with the parisers.

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<v Speaker 1>The room was equipped to record the evidence.

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<v Speaker 3>The medical Issama has anes ray unlike the ones in

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<v Speaker 3>an emergency room because it's on an autopsy table.

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<v Speaker 1>And as much as you wanted the evidence to be

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<v Speaker 1>there and this was good news, you can only imagine

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<v Speaker 1>that for everybody in the room, it was just awful.

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<v Speaker 1>He still looked like a baby frozen in time.

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<v Speaker 3>So there's this little infant on the autopsy table with

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<v Speaker 3>a camera from the S ray machine looking down on

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<v Speaker 3>its rays are being taken. We can see on a

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<v Speaker 3>large screen while those s rays are projecting. I had

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<v Speaker 3>seen multiple skull fractures and babies before, and the first

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<v Speaker 3>thing I noticed was bilateral fractures on each side of

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<v Speaker 3>the child's skull.

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<v Speaker 5>There was one on the left and one on the right,

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<v Speaker 5>and it was a very complex fracture.

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<v Speaker 6>Part of it looked like the backwards question mark.

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<v Speaker 3>Someone may have hit this child with his fist which

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<v Speaker 3>could have caused the question mark skull fracture.

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<v Speaker 1>Then they took a closer look at Matthew's foot.

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<v Speaker 3>Doctor Burton pointed out that there had been a burn

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<v Speaker 3>on the left foot of the child. The discoloration was

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<v Speaker 3>still there. Held us, a four and a half month

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<v Speaker 3>old in a crib get a burn inside the foot

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<v Speaker 3>unless it's put there by an adult, either by a

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<v Speaker 3>cigarette cigar or maybe even a lighter. After the autopsy,

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<v Speaker 3>we were all ready to go forward with the prosecution.

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<v Speaker 3>Not only were we one hundred percent, but this child

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<v Speaker 3>had been tortured before he had been violently killed.

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<v Speaker 4>Based on the physical evidence and the fact that really

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<v Speaker 4>this had to have been committed by an adult, and

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<v Speaker 4>Jan Berry Sandlin was the only adult that was left

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<v Speaker 4>with matt.

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<v Speaker 1>The original indictment of Chan was for the murder of

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<v Speaker 1>Matthew Golder, but after the investigation, exhumation, and autopsy, the

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<v Speaker 1>prosecution expanded the charges.

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<v Speaker 4>Jan Sandlin was charged with malice murder, felony murder, crew

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<v Speaker 4>to children and aggravated assault, and we felt really good.

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<v Speaker 1>About it, and now little Matthew would return to his

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<v Speaker 1>place of rest.

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<v Speaker 4>Matt was taken back to the cemetery and got to

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<v Speaker 4>go back to sleep, and then we went back to

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<v Speaker 4>Atlanta and got ready for trial.

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<v Speaker 1>And while the prosecutor's office went to work, Matthew's father,

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<v Speaker 1>Cathy's first husband, appeared.

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<v Speaker 6>Someone in my life at the time had sought ted

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<v Speaker 6>Golder out thinking it would be beneficial to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, ted Golder was listed on Tracy Raquel's birth certificate

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<v Speaker 1>as her father, but Kathy was having an affair with

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<v Speaker 1>Jan when Tracy Raquel was conceived, so she didn't know

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<v Speaker 1>who her biological father really was. And frankly, she didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even care that much. But she had taken ted Golder's

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<v Speaker 1>name because she didn't want to be associated with Jan

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<v Speaker 1>Barry Sandlin. So tell me about Ted Golder.

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<v Speaker 6>Ted Gulder was a very nice man. He really wanted

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<v Speaker 6>to know if I was his daughter. He asked if

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<v Speaker 6>I would do a paternity test, which I sure, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>he was in Atlanta, I was in Savannah, and we

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<v Speaker 6>did that. Now while we were waiting for the results

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<v Speaker 6>to come back and we talked daily, just about things

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<v Speaker 6>and life and people. It was a nice thing. The

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<v Speaker 6>paternity test came back and he called and he said,

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<v Speaker 6>you're not my daughter. And he said, you know what,

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<v Speaker 6>you're a really nice woman. I wish the best for you,

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<v Speaker 6>but I don't want anything else to do with you.

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<v Speaker 1>What was that like for you?

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<v Speaker 6>This is where it gets really hard to feel like

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<v Speaker 6>there's not something wrong with you. And I had his name,

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<v Speaker 6>so yeah, he said, you know, i'd appreciate it if

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<v Speaker 6>you don't. He's my name, Golder. You're not my child.

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<v Speaker 6>And that was it. I never heard from him again.

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<v Speaker 1>The situation with Ted Golder was another heartbreak, but Tracy

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<v Speaker 1>Riquel could not let this latest disappointment deter her. She

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<v Speaker 1>had to focus on getting justice for Matthew. She knew

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<v Speaker 1>even with the trial set, nothing about this would be easy.

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<v Speaker 1>There were no guarantees. The second autopsy of Matthew Golder

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<v Speaker 1>had been a revelation. What they found out amazed everyone,

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<v Speaker 1>and one of the things they learned was that there

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<v Speaker 1>had been a first autopsy. When they exhumed the body,

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<v Speaker 1>they saw the markings. So where did that report go? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>apparently in nineteen seventy one. It went home with the coroner.

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<v Speaker 1>But this was still a very old case and there

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<v Speaker 1>were no witnesses, so that created a lot of challenges

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<v Speaker 1>for the prosecution. Former Assistant District Attorney Jeff Brickman.

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<v Speaker 4>While we had prosecuted some cold cases, this was the coldest.

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<v Speaker 4>This was frigid, and we knew when I say we

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<v Speaker 4>Leanne and I and doctor Burton and j Tom Morgan,

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<v Speaker 4>our boss, knew there was going to be a hefty

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<v Speaker 4>fight in front of us at trial.

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<v Speaker 2>I was pretty unwavering in my belief that there were

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<v Speaker 2>only two people, two adults, who could have been involved

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<v Speaker 2>in Matthew's murder, and it didn't make any logical sense

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<v Speaker 2>that it would be Kathy.

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<v Speaker 4>We were going to have to recreate history. We were

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<v Speaker 4>going to have to put that crime scene back together.

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<v Speaker 4>It was not by any stretch of slam dunk, and

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<v Speaker 4>we knew that.

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<v Speaker 1>Putting the crime scene back together started with Matthew's crib.

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<v Speaker 3>We contacted Series and Robot. They did not have that crib,

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<v Speaker 3>but they had the dimensions of the model, and we

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<v Speaker 3>hired a carpenter to rebuild a crib just like that one,

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<v Speaker 3>so the jury could see how just unlikely, not impossible

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<v Speaker 3>for a two year old to climb over in and

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<v Speaker 3>then throw a four month all out.

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<v Speaker 2>It was critically important that the crib was on the

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<v Speaker 2>second floor of their apartment, which doctor Burton told me

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<v Speaker 2>meant that there would have been some give to the

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<v Speaker 2>floor because it would have been on a wood and

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<v Speaker 2>a subfloor as opposed to being on concrete on a

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<v Speaker 2>concrete slab, and so there just was no way for

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<v Speaker 2>the amount of force that would have been required for

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<v Speaker 2>those injuries to have been generated by a fall onto

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<v Speaker 2>a floor of that type.

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<v Speaker 1>There were several witnesses that had to be prepared for

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<v Speaker 1>the trial, including Tracy Riquel's mother, Kathy Almond. She would

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<v Speaker 1>turn out to be one of the state's key witnesses.

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<v Speaker 1>Lee and Mangum was the person who prepared Kathy, and

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<v Speaker 1>she had a lot of time to observe her behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember that Kathy was quiet and passive. It was

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<v Speaker 2>clear that Kathy was still scared of jam.

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<v Speaker 1>And Kathy was sticking to her story.

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<v Speaker 2>She was very clear on the timeline of what happened

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<v Speaker 2>to the day that Matthew died.

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<v Speaker 1>She said that when she came home from running errands,

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<v Speaker 1>She took Tracy Raquel into the apartment, and then Jan

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<v Speaker 1>instructed her to get the laundry out of the car.

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<v Speaker 1>When she came back upstairs, she found Matthew on the

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<v Speaker 1>floor unresponsive.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember Kathy seemingly knowing what really had happened, but

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<v Speaker 2>not being willing to admit that to herself. But I

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<v Speaker 2>suspect on some level, Kathy always knew that that story

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<v Speaker 2>didn't make any sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff Brickman said earlier that the case wasn't a slam dunk.

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<v Speaker 1>One reason for that was Sandland's lawyer.

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<v Speaker 2>Krin Mall was Jan Barry Sandlin's defense attorney. Corin Mall

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<v Speaker 2>was an incredibly effective advocate in every trial where I faced.

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<v Speaker 4>Her, Leanne and I knew karenn we had had cases

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<v Speaker 4>against her. She was very calm, durable. In this particular courtroom,

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<v Speaker 4>she and Judge Fuller got along well. He respected her,

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<v Speaker 4>as did other judges, but that was sort of like

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<v Speaker 4>her home turf, and Karen was a bulldog.

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<v Speaker 1>The media and the public were fascinated by the case.

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<v Speaker 1>A little girl, a two year old who had been

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<v Speaker 1>framed for her brother's death, grows up and realizes it's

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<v Speaker 1>all a lie. The courthouse opened its doors on July ninth,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety seven.

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<v Speaker 7>Everybody gets your sixth place.

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<v Speaker 1>Tracy Raquel sat in the District Attorney's office waiting to

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<v Speaker 1>be sworn in.

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<v Speaker 7>All right, all.

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<v Speaker 8>Get happenning me see you please.

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<v Speaker 1>Facing the bench was Jan Barry Sandlin and a white

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<v Speaker 1>Oxford shirt and pattern tie. He rocked back and forth

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<v Speaker 1>in his chair with a wad of gum in his

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<v Speaker 1>right cheek.

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<v Speaker 9>Counsel Great proceed with his.

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney seated next to him. Jan's appearance was confident, cocky,

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<v Speaker 1>making direct eye contact with anyone who spoke to him

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<v Speaker 1>or about him. So how do we know all those details? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the trial was recorded. Today we're used to seeing court

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<v Speaker 1>cases on television, but back in nineteen ninety seven it

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<v Speaker 1>was still relatively new. Judge Hilton Fuller Junior felt the

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<v Speaker 1>public should be able to see the court proceedings in

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<v Speaker 1>real time. The presence of a TV camera would have

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<v Speaker 1>a major impact on the case. Because Judge Fuller gave

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<v Speaker 1>clear instructions during the trial.

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<v Speaker 9>Art the real sequestration has been in Boca. I expect

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<v Speaker 9>that the attorneys to make sure that all witnesses understand

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<v Speaker 9>that they're not to discuss the case with each other.

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<v Speaker 1>Sequestration also meant that a witness could not watch the

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<v Speaker 1>trial on television.

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<v Speaker 9>We're now ready for opening statements, mister, when you wish

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<v Speaker 9>to make an opening statement.

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<v Speaker 7>Yes, sir, thank you may perceived thank you.

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<v Speaker 5>N Stephen Golder was on death's doorstep when he arrived

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<v Speaker 5>at the Decab General Hospital on the evening of December

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<v Speaker 5>twenty seventh, nineteen hundred and seventy one.

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff Brickman opened the day by describing the injuries Matthew

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<v Speaker 1>sustained on the day of his death and the efforts

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<v Speaker 1>the medical team made to save him. He shared details

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<v Speaker 1>about Matthew's original autopsy and original death certificate that had

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<v Speaker 1>categorized the baby's death as an accident.

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:32.760
<v Speaker 5>Jan Barry Sandlin while alone and while in immediate control

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:38.240
<v Speaker 5>over Matthew Stephen Golder, a four month old child who

0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 5>literally was depended completely on an adult forcibly and intentionally

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:49.040
<v Speaker 5>killed him.

0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.760
<v Speaker 1>He credited Tracy Raquel with being the one person who

0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 1>didn't believe the story that her mother told officials when

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 1>Matthew died.

0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.920
<v Speaker 5>The evidence will show you, ladies and gentlemen, that Tracy

0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.920
<v Speaker 5>ram as she gets older, starts asking questions, trying to

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 5>find out what really happened. Trying to find out the truth.

0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 1>Brickman had to be explicit that there wasn't a witness

0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.880
<v Speaker 1>or a smoking gun in a case like this. Instead,

0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 1>he previewed the expert and family witnesses the prosecution will present,

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.360
<v Speaker 1>and then wrapped up with this, and.

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.560
<v Speaker 5>I'm confident and submit to you, ladies and gentlemen, that

0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.960
<v Speaker 5>at the conclusion of this evidence, one verdict will be

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:32.200
<v Speaker 5>consistent with the evidence. One verdict will be consistent with

0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:32.720
<v Speaker 5>the truth.

0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 1>And then he directed his attention to Jan Barry Sandlin.

0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.360
<v Speaker 5>And that is, ladies and gentlemen, that on December twenty seventh,

0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:46.960
<v Speaker 5>nineteen seventy one, Matthew Stephen Golder was killed by that man.

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:58.800
<v Speaker 1>Then Jan Sandlin's defense attorney, Carin Maul made her opening statement.

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.800
<v Speaker 7>Gentlemen, the only thing that is true that we do

0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:08.680
<v Speaker 7>know is that indeed that baby did not fall out

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.440
<v Speaker 7>of that bed, did not get pushed out of that bed,

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.840
<v Speaker 7>did not get stumbled in the night and dropped on

0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:15.360
<v Speaker 7>the floor.

0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 1>So if the defense was saying that Tracy Raquel was

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.360
<v Speaker 1>not responsible for Matthew's debt, where were they going.

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 7>Listen, ladies and gentlemen, for the story about Kathy Alman,

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.880
<v Speaker 7>who was so distressed that she told her daughter, I

0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.600
<v Speaker 7>can't go talk to the police, I can't go talk

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.320
<v Speaker 7>to the DA I can't do this all by herself.

0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:43.280
<v Speaker 7>Twenty six years of line is what you will hear

0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.440
<v Speaker 7>about in the next few days. It is the best

0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:52.560
<v Speaker 7>example of how a lie begins and how it will

0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 7>come to an end in this courtroom, missus Almond, I

0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:03.000
<v Speaker 7>believe the evidence will show this is probably her worst

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 7>nightmare come true.

0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.960
<v Speaker 5>It is going to be difficult for her to testify

0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:09.400
<v Speaker 5>it's true.

0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.919
<v Speaker 1>Kathy did tell different stories over the years to Tracy Raquel,

0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:18.840
<v Speaker 1>to social workers, to doctors, maybe even to herself. The

0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.399
<v Speaker 1>defense would use that to so doubt.

0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 7>You will hear State's version of events is but one

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:32.679
<v Speaker 7>of many. You'll be asked to reconcile all these different

0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:37.240
<v Speaker 7>stories and to determine which, if any, you believe.

0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 1>And then the state called their first witness, neurosurgeon doctor

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:48.080
<v Speaker 1>Ellis Keener. Jeff Brickman conducted the questioning. Doctor Keener walked

0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.720
<v Speaker 1>the jury through Matthew's injuries and the treatment he gave

0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.640
<v Speaker 1>him that winter night twenty six years earlier.

0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 9>I recommended they go right to the operating room where

0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 9>he to be prepared for surgical expiration. Though the situation

0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:05.600
<v Speaker 9>looked very bad.

0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:10.720
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Keener explained that Matthew continued to decline even after surgery.

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:16.080
<v Speaker 9>According to the notes, he had become terminal and an

0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.560
<v Speaker 9>effort was made in the intensive care to give him

0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:23.399
<v Speaker 9>artificial respiration, and there was also a note that he

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.840
<v Speaker 9>had cardiac massage, both unsuccessful.

0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Brickmann asked doctor Keener how Matthew got those injuries.

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:36.960
<v Speaker 9>I was told that the child had been I believe

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.960
<v Speaker 9>thrown out of the crib by sibling.

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.000
<v Speaker 1>But that wasn't the entire story. We did some research

0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.960
<v Speaker 1>and learned that doctor Keener didn't really believe the story

0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.720
<v Speaker 1>that he was told in the hospital. When Matthew was

0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:57.520
<v Speaker 1>brought in, missus Camilla Taylor, a social worker for Decab

0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Family and Child Services, meanted an interview with doctor Keener.

0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.560
<v Speaker 1>This conversation took place about fifteen days after Matthew died.

0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.879
<v Speaker 1>When asked if he thought that the damage could have

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.879
<v Speaker 1>been caused by a fall from a baby bed, doctor

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Keener said no.

0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:15.400
<v Speaker 6>More.

0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 1>Notably, the social worker explicitly writes in her letter. He

0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:24.680
<v Speaker 1>made the above statement after being assured that this report

0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:29.680
<v Speaker 1>is confidential. Why would a doctor require his conversation to

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.520
<v Speaker 1>be confidential? Was it for hip hop compliance? No, that

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.800
<v Speaker 1>wasn't even a thing until decades later. Was it out

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.760
<v Speaker 1>of fear for his own safety? That important detail would

0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:46.000
<v Speaker 1>never come to light? In the courtroom, Brickman continued, as.

0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.440
<v Speaker 7>Far as you know, doctor Keener, were the police notified?

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:53.119
<v Speaker 1>As far as I know, yes, the defense was up

0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:58.359
<v Speaker 1>at bat carin Mal asked doctor Keener about something else

0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:04.560
<v Speaker 1>found in the autopsy, bruising on Matthew's clavical Isn't it true?

0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:09.680
<v Speaker 7>Doctor keino that that bruising could have occurred at North

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:14.200
<v Speaker 7>Side Hospital in an effort to resuscitate the child.

0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 9>I think your statement is not correct.

0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:18.920
<v Speaker 7>Okay, correct me?

0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:19.440
<v Speaker 8>Then correct.

0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Keener explained that the placement of the bruising was

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.440
<v Speaker 1>right around the collarbone, which would not be because of

0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:34.920
<v Speaker 1>resuscitation efforts. Maul then turned to the burn on Matthew's foot.

0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:36.960
<v Speaker 5>You called it an.

0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:40.119
<v Speaker 7>Old, dry, ulcerated area, that's correct.

0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.119
<v Speaker 1>Then she asked if anyone would have noticed the burn

0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.840
<v Speaker 1>if they weren't a physician He responded that it was

0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.520
<v Speaker 1>obvious enough for him to put it in the record.

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.119
<v Speaker 7>All that you can tell us is that it was

0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.320
<v Speaker 7>old and that it could have been a burn, it

0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.600
<v Speaker 7>could have been a blister. It's not quite clear. Correct,

0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:04.040
<v Speaker 7>that's correct.

0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Maul is trying hard to minimize Matthew's injuries. The bruising,

0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.040
<v Speaker 1>the burn mark, It was all evidence that Matthew was

0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:17.679
<v Speaker 1>abused and tortured. It implied a pattern of harm, something

0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.920
<v Speaker 1>Mull wanted jurors to lose sight of. And here's a

0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:24.520
<v Speaker 1>really stunning question.

0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.399
<v Speaker 7>Now, you didn't do anything to that burn or blister.

0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.119
<v Speaker 7>You didn't put anything on it or tend to it

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.760
<v Speaker 7>in any way, did you. There's no record that I.

0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 9>Did anything to there was?

0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.480
<v Speaker 1>She implying that the burn wasn't significant because doctor Keener

0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:45.520
<v Speaker 1>didn't put neosporin on it. Matthew's skull had multiple fractures

0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.200
<v Speaker 1>and a brain bleed. Life saving measures were being taken.

0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.119
<v Speaker 1>It went without saying the priority was to save the child.

0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:56.840
<v Speaker 1>The prosecution had to hope jurors were sensible enough to

0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 1>understand that.

0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 6>Ki next witness Stay called Tracy Rain.

0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:06.600
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety seven. Tracy Raquel Burns was going by

0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.919
<v Speaker 1>Tracy Rain. Rain was the last name of her husband

0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:11.520
<v Speaker 1>at the time.

0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:12.760
<v Speaker 5>You raise your right hand.

0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.040
<v Speaker 9>If you saw me swear from the testimony you give

0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:16.800
<v Speaker 9>the court durald dishpan, it would be the truth, the

0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:18.080
<v Speaker 9>whole truth, and nothing but truth.

0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:19.240
<v Speaker 7>Say you got yes, I did.

0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.840
<v Speaker 1>This moment was a culmination of years of heartache and

0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:29.159
<v Speaker 1>misery and pure tenacity. You're twenty seven years old, you

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 1>get called to the stand. What was it like for

0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:35.159
<v Speaker 1>you after you worked so hard.

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 5>To get to this place?

0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:41.879
<v Speaker 10>It was overwhelming and terrifying. And then, of course I

0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:46.480
<v Speaker 10>hadn't seen Jan since I was nine or ten years old,

0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:47.960
<v Speaker 10>so this was going to be the first time I

0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:50.800
<v Speaker 10>was going to see him face to face in all

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:53.639
<v Speaker 10>those years. So it was pretty intimidating.

0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:56.320
<v Speaker 1>Did you interact with Jan in any way?

0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:01.719
<v Speaker 10>I made a very conscious decision to look over at

0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.760
<v Speaker 10>him just long enough to acknowledge that he was there,

0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:09.080
<v Speaker 10>and just honestly so I didn't throw up because I

0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 10>was just so terrified.

0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Leeann Mangone questioned Tracy Riquel.

0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Tercy, why did you work so hard to have Matthew's

0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:18.719
<v Speaker 2>death reexaminer.

0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 8>Well, initially it was a search for truth, There was

0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:26.520
<v Speaker 8>so many inconsistencies in the story. And then later I

0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.800
<v Speaker 8>realized as I was older, that something bad had happened,

0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:34.000
<v Speaker 8>and it was to correct that bad thing. And then

0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:37.720
<v Speaker 8>obviously I realized just several years ago that it had

0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:39.760
<v Speaker 8>been placed on me. So that's who is part of

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:40.320
<v Speaker 8>it as well.

0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:45.240
<v Speaker 1>Lee Anne Mangone asked Tracy Riquel why she wanted to

0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:50.159
<v Speaker 1>record conversations between her and her mother, Kathy Allman, you

0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:51.040
<v Speaker 1>said that you've spoken with.

0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Your mother on a number of occasions to try to

0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:56.560
<v Speaker 2>get information about what happened to Matthew. Yes, at some

0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:00.560
<v Speaker 2>point did you record a conversation between yourself your mother?

0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:01.520
<v Speaker 6>Yes? I did?

0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.400
<v Speaker 8>And why did you take reported phone conversation between yourself.

0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:05.520
<v Speaker 6>And your mother?

0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:09.560
<v Speaker 8>Several days prior to that, Actually, the night before she

0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:13.760
<v Speaker 8>had said to me that it was easier to say

0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:18.680
<v Speaker 8>that I was responsible for excuse me for Matt's injuries

0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:22.560
<v Speaker 8>than it was to say that the man she loved

0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:24.120
<v Speaker 8>was and watch him go to jail.

0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Leanne Mangun also asked about the push and pull between

0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Terca Raquel and her mother.

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:33.600
<v Speaker 2>How old were you if you remember when you first

0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:35.360
<v Speaker 2>asked your mother what had happened.

0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:35.840
<v Speaker 7>To your baby birth.

0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.879
<v Speaker 8>My first recollection of that is age seven.

0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Did your mother give you any explanation as to why

0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:46.399
<v Speaker 2>she was initially uncooperative with trying to find out what

0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:47.240
<v Speaker 2>happened to Matthew?

0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:52.560
<v Speaker 8>Well, I think that she had originally said it was

0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 8>because she didn't recall, and that it was a crazy

0:24:56.600 --> 0:24:59.440
<v Speaker 8>time and there were, you know, crazy things going on

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:02.720
<v Speaker 8>and she just didn't remember, and later it was because

0:25:02.920 --> 0:25:04.399
<v Speaker 8>she just didn't want to have to deal with it.

0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:12.439
<v Speaker 1>Teresa Raquel did well with the prosecution, and then defense

0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:15.560
<v Speaker 1>attorney Carin Malt started her cross examination.

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:19.399
<v Speaker 7>When was the first time you were told you were

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:19.960
<v Speaker 7>to blame for.

0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:22.760
<v Speaker 8>The death of the child in nineteen ninety two and

0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:23.840
<v Speaker 8>at the time.

0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:28.520
<v Speaker 7>That you were talking to police you did not realize

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:30.720
<v Speaker 7>that you were to blame at that point, No, I

0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:35.280
<v Speaker 7>did not, in fact, miss ring. The person who has

0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:38.560
<v Speaker 7>been hurt the greatest is probably you, wouldn't you say?

0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:40.960
<v Speaker 8>I think that would vary in opinion.

0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:46.800
<v Speaker 7>Okay, but basically, your mother has blamed you for the

0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:48.960
<v Speaker 7>death of this child, correct.

0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:52.159
<v Speaker 8>As I was informed by those medical records.

0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:55.600
<v Speaker 7>Yes, and your grandmother her mother, I.

0:25:55.640 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 8>Don't think that she blamed I think she was passing

0:25:57.840 --> 0:25:58.800
<v Speaker 8>on what was told to her.

0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:02.040
<v Speaker 4>Isn't it true?

0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:04.720
<v Speaker 7>You use the words when you were talking to your mother.

0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:08.960
<v Speaker 7>Your mother said, ask your grandmother, and you said, I did.

0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:10.600
<v Speaker 5>All she'll tell me.

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Is she did it, but that I did it.

0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:12.720
<v Speaker 8>Yes?

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:21.280
<v Speaker 7>Were you ever astonished that anyone felt the need to

0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:23.880
<v Speaker 7>tell you you were responsible?

0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:26.080
<v Speaker 8>I don't understand that.

0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:26.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:30.600
<v Speaker 7>Didn't you at one point in time express to your

0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:36.800
<v Speaker 7>mother that a mother who cared about her children would

0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:41.560
<v Speaker 7>seek to shield a child from playing, would not tell

0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 7>the child you're responsible.

0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:48.400
<v Speaker 8>Yes, I did, and that would be as.

0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:52.840
<v Speaker 7>True, if not true, with regards to your grandmother. Correct.

0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:55.600
<v Speaker 8>I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.

0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:56.480
<v Speaker 5>I'll rephrase that.

0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:02.960
<v Speaker 7>There was no need to tell you, as a child

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:06.880
<v Speaker 7>or as a young adult, you're responsible for the death

0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:07.560
<v Speaker 7>of this child.

0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:11.680
<v Speaker 8>Her response was justifiable. I asked her a question and

0:27:11.840 --> 0:27:12.800
<v Speaker 8>she simply answered it.

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:17.680
<v Speaker 7>But nobody said to you, Oh, when you asked what

0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:20.840
<v Speaker 7>happened to your grandmother, she said you did it. She

0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:24.560
<v Speaker 7>didn't say, oh, it was an accident I did it,

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:25.680
<v Speaker 7>or somebody else did it.

0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:29.000
<v Speaker 8>She said it was an accident. You were responsible.

0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:36.480
<v Speaker 7>Yes, who else has said to you Tracy Wayne, you

0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:42.040
<v Speaker 7>are responsible for either the accidental killing, the accidental injuring

0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:45.120
<v Speaker 7>the accidental death, the purposeful injuring.

0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:45.760
<v Speaker 5>The personal death.

0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:49.800
<v Speaker 7>Who else has laid responsibility on you has told you.

0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:57.000
<v Speaker 1>My mother, Grin Maul was anxious to question the next witness,

0:27:57.520 --> 0:28:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Tracy Riquel's mother, Kathy Allman. She wanted jurors to think

0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:03.960
<v Speaker 1>that Kathy was a liar.

0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:07.160
<v Speaker 7>He raised right hand. You saw him squear fum the test.

0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:08.200
<v Speaker 8>Wont to give the cord you will.

0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:11.800
<v Speaker 1>As Kathy Almond took the stand, she appeared shaky and nervous.

0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:16.520
<v Speaker 1>I do Twenty feet away sat the man who had

0:28:16.560 --> 0:28:20.160
<v Speaker 1>betrayed her in so many ways, the love of her life,

0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:21.720
<v Speaker 1>Jan Barry Sanmon.

0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:22.920
<v Speaker 6>Did you kill Matt?

0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:24.560
<v Speaker 5>No? I didn't.

0:28:25.280 --> 0:28:27.359
<v Speaker 8>Did you cause him to have skull fractures? On December

0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 8>twenty seventh, nineteen seventy.

0:28:28.720 --> 0:28:29.840
<v Speaker 6>One, No I didn't.

0:28:30.560 --> 0:28:33.680
<v Speaker 1>Kathy described the errands she ran with Tracer Raquel in

0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:37.119
<v Speaker 1>the morning. She recalled their trip to the laundromat and

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:41.520
<v Speaker 1>visited to the pediatrician. Brickman asked about Matt's condition when

0:28:41.600 --> 0:28:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Kathy left the apartment.

0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:45.440
<v Speaker 5>It's best you could tell as a mom. Back on

0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:48.040
<v Speaker 5>December twenty seventh, nineteen seventy one. Was he content?

0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:51.280
<v Speaker 8>Yes, he laughed out elab for the first time that day.

0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:57.040
<v Speaker 1>What a devastating piece of testimony from Kathy. The day

0:28:57.120 --> 0:29:04.160
<v Speaker 1>of Matthew's death was a joyful milestone, he laughed. Before

0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Kathy took the stand. Tracy Raquel was dismissed. She now

0:29:08.480 --> 0:29:11.160
<v Speaker 1>had to think about her own children, So she caught

0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 1>the first flight home to Savannah, and she spoke to

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:17.960
<v Speaker 1>her brother Jason, who told her about threats her father

0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:19.360
<v Speaker 1>had been making against her.

0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:21.000
<v Speaker 10>I was told that he.

0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:25.160
<v Speaker 6>Threatened to set me on fire and watch me burn

0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.000
<v Speaker 6>to death, and then some of the stuff Jason wouldn't repeat.

0:29:28.640 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 6>He just said it was horrible and he stopped talking

0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:30.400
<v Speaker 6>to him.

0:29:31.600 --> 0:29:35.000
<v Speaker 1>As Tracy Raquel's crusade to get justice for her brother

0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Matthew hung in the balance, she was facing threats of

0:29:38.960 --> 0:29:43.560
<v Speaker 1>violence towards her and her family. Meanwhile, back in court

0:29:43.720 --> 0:29:47.400
<v Speaker 1>into cab County, Georgia, Kathy was going to be confronted

0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 1>with the most bizarre story she had told about Matthew's death.

0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm Nancy Glass. That's next time on Burden of Guilt.

0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Stay tuned for Burden of Guilt. The documentary coming in

0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:07.200
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four and airing only on Paramount Plus. If

0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:09.040
<v Speaker 1>you would like to reach out to the Burden of

0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Guilt team, email us at Burden of guiltpod at gmail

0:30:13.720 --> 0:30:18.240
<v Speaker 1>dot com. That's Burden of Guilt pod at gmail dot com.

0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:22.160
<v Speaker 1>If you or someone you know is worried about maltreatment

0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:25.840
<v Speaker 1>or suspect that a child is being abused or neglected,

0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:30.520
<v Speaker 1>call the Child Help National Child's Abuse Hotline. You can

0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:35.960
<v Speaker 1>call or text one eight hundred four a Child. That's

0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:39.760
<v Speaker 1>one eight hundred four two two four four five three.

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0:30:52.160 --> 0:30:55.240
<v Speaker 1>A big thank you to all of you who are listening,

0:30:55.760 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 1>and also be sure to check us out and follow

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<v Speaker 1>us on Instagram at Glass Podcasts. Burden of Guilt is

0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 1>a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,

0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:11.360
<v Speaker 1>in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is hosted and

0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:15.400
<v Speaker 1>executive produced by me Nancy Glass, written and produced by

0:31:15.560 --> 0:31:20.360
<v Speaker 1>Carrie Hartman and Ben Fetterman. Also produced by Andrea Gunning

0:31:20.680 --> 0:31:26.160
<v Speaker 1>and Associate producer Kristin Melchiori. Our iHeart team is Ali

0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:31.200
<v Speaker 1>Perry and Jessica Crinchek. Special thanks to Tracy Riquel Burns

0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 1>and her husband Bart. Audio editing by Matt Delvecchio, Sound

0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:40.520
<v Speaker 1>mixing by Dave Sayah. Burden of Guilt's theme composed by

0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Oliver Bains. Music library provided by my Music and For

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<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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<v Speaker 1>or wherever you get your podcasts