1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: teen year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams. 4 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: Today we have one of the greatest receivers in NFL history, 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: two of the most reliable hands the game has ever seen, 6 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: from the Ohio State University and push off artists, the 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: incredible Chris Carter. That wasn't in my notes. I added 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,919 Speaker 1: that from personal experience, I can't believe you. How can 9 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: you sabotage that? Man? I'm in Hall of Fame like you? Man? 10 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: Can you be like push off artists? The young wide 11 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: receivers need to know how you did this, the little 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: shove that you don't get called for. We need to 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: put that out there. It's kind of like a viable 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: to biable. Man couldn't have read it because if man 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: had written, they wouldn't put their flaws in right. But 16 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this just so if we want to 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: be public, put it out there. There is no good 18 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: wide receiver, especially if he's not fast, like if you 19 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: don't have if God doesn't bless you with blazing speed, yes, 20 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,639 Speaker 1: like I'm not Sammy Watkins. I'm not Tyreek hill Tyreek 21 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: Hillker probably outrun me as a three year old. I mean, 22 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be in hand to hand combat, battling people. 23 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm not running away from people. So for me, I 24 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: had to try to perfect the things that we're gonna 25 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: be able to give me some type of advantage. And 26 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: offensive football is played a certain way. We have several 27 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: advantages on the defensive, several several from the beginning. Let 28 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: me take notes. Let me write this down. What's the 29 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: first several? Number one is I noticed snap? Can't noticed snap? 30 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: Number two is I know where I'm going, know where 31 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: you're going? And number three is some defensive coach has 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: convinced the fool that he could run backwards and keep 33 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: up with me, and I'm running forward. Goodness, gracious, let's 34 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 1: go get me some of that. Is that a backheaded compliment? No, 35 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: it's just those are the like you said, just like 36 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 1: the Bible. People ain't gonna like it. So let's just 37 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: put it out there. Now we can do something. Now, 38 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: we got we got something to ward. So we got 39 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: you noticed snap, count you know where I'm going? Where 40 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: are you going? And some defensive coach has caused disillusions. 41 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: Has called taught a food that he could do this 42 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: running backwards against a guy running forward. It's a lot 43 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: of foods over there. On defense, man, is that right? Yes? 44 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: I Q when you transition from offense to defense, i 45 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: Q go down. That's been proven too now before, not scientifically, 46 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: but proofing. No, I will beg the difference. Let me 47 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: tell you what I got my transformation Little League hundred 48 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: and ten pound team. I'm the running back up until 49 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: that time, I'm the dominant running back. All of a sudden, 50 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: I had to see Pifanin. We decided because we were 51 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: so good Chris to play against the hundred and thirty 52 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: pound team. Hm. I run the ball because I think 53 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: I'm all that. I go through the whole, the whole, 54 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: and I had to see Pifhanin. It's the first time 55 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: I heard god. His name was Troy and Scandal. He 56 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: was the middle linebacker Chris. He hit me so hard. 57 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: I was on the ground wondering if I'm gonna live 58 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: and get any more breath. That's when it's dawn on me. 59 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: Speaking about intelligence, I said to myself, it has to 60 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: be better hitting than getting hit. Now, that's segue into 61 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: the intelligence of the defensive players. Give you credit for 62 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: that one. Now, I gotta give you credit for that. 63 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: You had a bad day at work and this is 64 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: not the line of work. I like the company, but 65 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: they got to be better jobs this way. They said, 66 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: if you can't hold down the job, you might want 67 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: to change your line of work. Yes, and no need 68 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: getting hit with the ball. But let's talk about it, man, 69 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: crazy numbers. Let's first say when all when when they 70 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 1: always ask me who mimics your game today? The current players, 71 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: and I'll say some guys, but I promise you when 72 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: I see Chris Corter today, I see Larry Fitzgerald, tell 73 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: me about that. I think Larry Fitzgerald. I think Larry 74 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: is the is the easiest example. We've spent so much 75 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: time together from Minneapolis. I've been mentoring him since he 76 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: was fourteen years old. So I think that's natural skill set, 77 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:19,679 Speaker 1: body type size, all those types of things. But also 78 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: you have to slide into the conversation DeAndre Hopkins. You 79 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: know he's not a guy with blazing speed. He has 80 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: right now what I would call the best hands in 81 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: the NFL. And the reason the best hands is it 82 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: can't be a guy that can't get to a lot 83 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: of balls. And at this stage of Larry's career, sixteen 84 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: years in, he's still playing good football, but he's not 85 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: the star receiver. So there might be a few balls 86 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: that Larry five six years ago he was going to 87 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: get him. DeAndre Hopkins is in that mode, you know 88 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: right now, as far as a he's more of a 89 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: deep threat than than I was. But as far as 90 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: his route running, catching the ball in traffic, defeating the 91 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: double team, also playing off Broadway. You know, he's not 92 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: playing for the Cowboys like Michael Gutch. He's not like 93 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: Tim Brown playing with the Raiders, not like Jerry playing 94 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: with the forty niners. So a lot of times, you know, 95 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: in developing, you know, I look at other things. So 96 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: I would say Larry and DeAndre, both of them, what 97 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: they're doing, how they work on catching, how they try 98 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: to make the impossible catch, not afraid of it, and 99 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: playing at such a high and consistent level. I think 100 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: both of those guys would have to be in my conversation. 101 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: So you mentioned mentor, and a lot of times people 102 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: say mentor, I'm being mentored for you. When you said, man, 103 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: I mentored Larry what's a mentor to you? To me 104 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: is UM, it's far beyond you know, a relationship, friendship 105 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: and UM. We have a lot of relationships with people, 106 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of those relationships are just 107 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: on the surface. To me, true mentoring is there's a 108 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,239 Speaker 1: sacrifice and there's a give and take on both sides. 109 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: I see a lot of people that are experienced, UM, 110 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: either in education in life. They've been very successful and 111 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: people come into their life and they're like, I'm mentoring them. 112 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: But you actually can't mentor someone unless they ask you, 113 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: because they're gonna be things. Man, in the mentor mentee relationship, 114 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: I might have to tell this person that this is 115 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: not about no friendship. It's just gonna be. This is 116 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: how you rub the rock and it becomes a diamond, 117 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: you know. And that's part of the mentors job is 118 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: not to give them the conventional, the easy way of 119 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: how things could be done. It's also that those tough 120 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: conversations and if you see things you don't agree with, 121 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: you should be speaking out or talking about them because 122 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: that's what's about. You're sharing your experiences either in business 123 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: or in life that would help this person streamline it. 124 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: Like I lived in New York for three years, and 125 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: the locals will always tell you, man, avoid that local 126 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: train man, that muther gonna hit every stop. I mean, 127 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: it's going to every stop down the train. But in life, 128 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: sometimes you can get in an express lane. And that's 129 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: what a good mentor mentee relationship is because he's gonna 130 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: share things with you that you might not like, but 131 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: it's gonna allow you in life to build getting that 132 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: express lane and miss some of that Hodge pause that 133 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: you know as people, it gets us called up in life. 134 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: So for me, you have to have someone come to 135 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: you and say, you know something, I want to be 136 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: a part of your life in a in a special 137 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: type way. And that's what I had with Larry Fitzgerald, 138 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: That's what I had with Jake Read, That's what I 139 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: had with Randy Moss. So I never felt like just 140 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: because I was older than a guy, I was gonna 141 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: be his mentor. No, there is a certain amount of 142 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: submission and humility in that person that know that they 143 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: need a mentor. Everyone needs a mentor, but most people 144 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: don't think they need one. So you can't mentor someone 145 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: that don't think that you're their mentor because they're not 146 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: going to submit to some of the things that you 147 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: need to. And based on your experience, age, or whatever 148 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: success that you've had that have brought you into this relationship, 149 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: they're going to have to be able to recognize that. 150 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: So for me, the mentor mentee that that protege relationship 151 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: is very, very different than some of the examples that 152 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: I have heard and seen. Today's player. The millennials as 153 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: they call them, seem to have the appearance of not 154 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: liking that correction. Are you got to build them up 155 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: first before you bring that level of correction? How has 156 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: that been for you with the current guys you mentioned 157 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: DeAndre are from overall standpoint of today's player, How can 158 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: older veterans legends relate to him? This is the thing, man, 159 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: and we've all been in this and and people try 160 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: to get hung up on the millennial discussion because the millennials, 161 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: because that's the thing, that's the hot thing. But when 162 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: you're in the locker room environment, you see guys come 163 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: in that are totally different than you. Different ages, different nationalities, 164 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: different upbringings, just different things, and not only the difference 165 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: in age. So now we have the conversation about the millennials. 166 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: And the truth of the matter is, man, we've been 167 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: banging on the millennials unfairly, but every new group we 168 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: thought they were totally different. We've been doing this for 169 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: a long time. Like if you went through the fifties, 170 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: the guys in the sixties they came up. It was 171 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: in the fifties like, oh man, those guys aren't tough. 172 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: They can drink water at practice. Well, it's proving over 173 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: the years and it's more far more practical. Then by 174 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: time you get to the seventies, guys in the fifties 175 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: and sixties are like, man, look at modern and these 176 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: guys are soft. By time we get to the eighties, 177 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: you come nineties. Every generation is gone through changes, So 178 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: why wouldn't we embrace the change that they have. They're 179 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: real and it starts with analyzing. Yeah, they are different, 180 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: but so what so has every other generation now? From 181 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: a technology standpoint? Are they more attached to their phones 182 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: than ever before? Yeah? So am I I'm more attached 183 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: to my phone? Uh, Nikki, I know you know this. 184 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: You and I have taught on this for a long time. 185 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: The Ministry of Jesus Christ has meet people where they 186 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: are so let's meet the millennials where they are. You know, 187 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: I have to up my technology game so that I 188 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: can conversate with them. I'm far more on social media 189 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: than I would ever be if I didn't think it 190 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: wasn't a connection between me and this other generation. I 191 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: know how old I am, but I don't want them 192 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: to look at me as an old man. So you 193 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: have to build embrace them, meet him where they are. Yes, 194 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: they are different, so was I. You know Harold Carmichael, 195 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: he's going to Hall of Fame this year. Him and 196 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: I didn't play together, but he was around the Eagles, 197 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: still working with the team when I was drafted. He 198 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: looked at me and was like, man, you're a lot 199 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: different than me. Mike Quick was there, great receiver. He's 200 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: an announcer for the Eagles to this day. He was like, man, 201 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: that guy is different. And now here I am sitting 202 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: there in their position. I'm like, that's exactly how I was. 203 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: There's nothing new under the sun. There's nothing. Well, there's 204 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: new stuff and you have to go out and discover it, 205 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: but there's nothing new as far as change. There's always 206 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: been changing human beings. There's always been changes as far 207 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: as technology, visibility, all those things access. So we have 208 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: to build to meet these people where they are. I 209 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: believe that helps the situation. But also it's that they're 210 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: not that much different. You have to know and accept, 211 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: not like except they're going to be more connected to 212 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: social media and social media. When you spend that amount 213 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: of time in front of that unit, that computer, you 214 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: develop a personality off of that. So affirmation with social 215 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: media Instagram is a lot more friendly than Twitter. You 216 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. But these guys are looking at 217 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: their phones and looking at their stuff, not for news. 218 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: They're looking for their stuff affirmation, So affirmation better be 219 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 1: a part because they're getting it. How many hours they 220 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: looking at this they're getting at If that's eight hours, 221 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: that's nine hours, ten hours they are getting that. They 222 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: are not looking at the tough film, Nikki. You know 223 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: that Bill Belichick, even after you win, he bringing them 224 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: fifteen twenty plays where you look awful and he just 225 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: rips you apart. That's not our that's not our natural instinct. Man. 226 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: We like nice, comfortable stuff. No coach showed me the 227 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: good place, don't show me the good one. Don't show 228 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: me where I missed the jam don't show me where 229 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: I dropped the ball. When I used to drop the ball. 230 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: In the film, the coach sometimes used to be talking 231 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: to him. I have to make sure I listen because 232 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: I always closed my eyes because your brain is forever 233 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: taking pictures, and I had so many millions of pictures 234 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: of me catching stuff that when that one bad shot, 235 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: I would close my coach be like Chris, you see that, Yes, sir, 236 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: you know what you did wrong there? Yes, sir. I 237 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: would know what I needed to do instantly. Didn't have 238 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: my palms together, should have had my index in my 239 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: thumb together. Thing on dB was holding me um so 240 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: I had already made the analysis on it. But I 241 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: would close my eyes because I didn't want those pictures 242 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: inside of my brain because I had so many. And 243 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: the reason why he gets so upset when I couldn't 244 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: catch a ball because I had thousands of pictures of 245 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: the ones I had never caught. I had him in 246 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: my head. I had him in my head and I 247 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: knew that I could make that catch. So for me, 248 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: these kids are taking pictures and it's a lot of 249 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: it's based off social media, and if I want to 250 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: be able to connect with them, if I still want 251 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: to be relevant. If I want to know what the 252 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: modern day athletes is thinking, I better come up with 253 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: some ways to identify with them and get down where 254 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: they are. If not, I'm gonna be lost. They're not lost. 255 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: I'm lost, And you wouldn't better relate to him? No, nope, 256 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be their fault. Eleven eleven hundred receptions, 257 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty touchdowns your own challenges, young player with 258 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: third round Philadelphia Eagles is the third round, fourth round. 259 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, shout out for to the Southern University, Harold 260 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: car Michael, appreciate you, Hall of Fame shout out. He's 261 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: the third one recently in Yeah you know, I'm sorry. 262 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah selected, he's been selected ceremony. Yeah, got you, My 263 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: my dad selected. But we're happy for exactly. That's the 264 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: third Southern Jaguard. Just so you know, I know how state. Wow. Okay, 265 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: shout out HBCU. Man, that's really strong. I just wanted 266 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: to put that out there now. I didn't know that, 267 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: really I didn't. I didn't. I didn't know that, right, Okay, 268 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: that makes sense, Mel Blunt, Yeah, no doubt. I'm putting 269 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: it together. Three of my all time favorites too. That's 270 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: nice because Male, I love Male to death and he 271 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: overcomes you wouldn't have gotten off the jam with him. Well, 272 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna tell you. God knows what he's doing. 273 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: He put him on the test first deals in the 274 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: seventies because he knew Male's confidence would not be able 275 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: to stand meet this. God knows what he's doing. That 276 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: I got you. I got you. We're not gonna mess 277 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: with that. We're not gonna leave him alone. Challenges at 278 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: Philadelphia early on your formative as you're growing up rebounding 279 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: from that, wouldn't you looked back at Chris at that age? 280 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: What can you share with us? He was thinking, I 281 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: would say, is from my youth. Almost every team that 282 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: I can ever remember being on, I was the best 283 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: player and the captain of the team. From your youth. 284 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: From the first time I ever, first time I ever 285 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: touched the football as a quarterback eight years old and 286 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: quarterback round eighteen bootleg and I went seventy our sport 287 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: touchdown Labor Day, eight years old, try to sign up. 288 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: When I was seven, try to doctor up my birth certificate. 289 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: Went up there to the park with my cousin and 290 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: they were like, you need your mom to come down 291 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: here with you. Boy, this don't look right. And I said, okay, 292 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: I'll go right home and get it at the way 293 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: a year because I knew that there was already doctor 294 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: that my mom would kill me if she knew I 295 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: was down there trying to sign up. So I really thought, man, 296 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: like I was focused on being great, Like I went 297 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: through the whole thing, man. I mean high school, college 298 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: All American, first team All American high school. I made 299 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: fifth or six team All American in basketball in high school, 300 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: first team All American in college. Like I really thought 301 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: like I was doing it, but I really wasn't. I 302 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: wasn't making the type of sacrifice to take to be 303 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: great like on an off the field. Like I just 304 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: took all that stuff for granted. And when I got 305 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: to Philadelphia, people people say that, um, money changes you. 306 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: And what money does is money makes you a bigger 307 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: what you already are. And when I got to Philadelphia, 308 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: being that big city, having money, it just enhanced me 309 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: to abuse my body. I got strung out on cocaine. 310 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: I was doing like an eight all of cocaine every 311 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: other day. I really thought like I was doing something 312 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: but I wasn't until my life collapse and I lost 313 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: my job that I realized that I had not given 314 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: myself the best opportunity. H m hmm. It's it's the 315 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: worst thing that I could ever talk about because it's 316 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: so m I mean, it's just like I almost threw 317 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: my life away, like my life was in the balance, 318 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: like it was just and as a kid, I was 319 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: so focused. Like when my mom heard about the things 320 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: I would do, she said, that is the least likely 321 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: of my kids I ever thought would be. She didn't 322 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: know it, no, because I just kept everything in secret. 323 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: Reggie White like he didn't know, like he was doing 324 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: everything for me like he didn't know. And then when 325 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: he cut me, Buddy coach Buddy Ryan, but Buddy knew 326 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: the Buddy no Buddy knew because the results of the 327 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: drug test, and Buddy was just it just happened that um. 328 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: And then this is this is nothing against the people 329 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: in Minnesota. Like if people ever hear this, like you 330 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 1: just have to hear me. I just wish I could 331 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: have stayed in Philly and got it right. M. Why, 332 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: it's it's really hard to overcome people giving up on you. 333 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: It's it's it's mhmm. So even to this day, it 334 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: doesn't haunt me, but it's a catalyst. Like everything I 335 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: do and everywhere I go, I try to be on time. 336 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: I try to be dependable. Because he looked at me 337 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,239 Speaker 1: and told me he couldn't trust him. Coach buddy did 338 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: and that hurt me, like like it hurt me, like 339 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: he didn't even made me a captain on the team 340 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: the year before I was twenty three, Reggie White Randall 341 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: cunning him, Mike Quit, I was captain and it was 342 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: all right, man, it was you know so for me, 343 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: like it was I opening. Not that my life and everything, 344 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: but it was I opening just how quick like you 345 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: can lose it all m and to me, like when 346 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: he cut me, he decided, Man, I don't know why. 347 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: I can only say God, but heast I want to 348 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 1: tell you a story. Coach your buddy. Yeah, And I'm like, 349 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: why ain't getting this over with? You already told me 350 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: you don't trust me, he said. Last night I was 351 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: talking to my wife and she was a Christian and 352 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: she's and he said, I gotta make one of the 353 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: hardest cuts I have to make tomorrow, and I gotta 354 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: cut Chris Carner, you know, because he's strung out on drugs. 355 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: He's addicted to cocaine. He said, I don't believe people 356 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: can get better mhm. And his wife said, buddy, please 357 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: don't cut him. He's gonna do something great with his life. 358 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: And he didn't listen to her, but he told me 359 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: the story. It was just like as I started going 360 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: older and being in relationship, I started saying how important 361 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: it is for men to listen to their wives, and 362 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: they dude, still cut me. Man, And after that, I 363 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: was like, no man will ever be in control of 364 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: my life like that ever again. I mean that I 365 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: was going to put myself in the position to get 366 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: the best out of my ability. Like I have been 367 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: lying to myself, I haven't been working that hard and 368 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: I was going to do everything to learn everything to 369 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: be the best person athlete that I could be. And 370 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: I said out on the mission and I was almost 371 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: thirty years ago. It was labor and I remember, and 372 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: it's been thirty years, man, since I used cocaine. It's 373 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: been thirty years on the twenty one September since I 374 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: had a drink. And it's the catalyst to this day 375 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: for everything that I do I came down looking for 376 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: you for the podcast twenty five minutes early. I can't 377 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: tell everybody that story because but that's the reason why, 378 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: because Buddy Ryan gave up on me. But I'm telling 379 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: that story no matter where I go, no matter what 380 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: I do. I remember Buddy's wife saying he's gonna do 381 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: something great with his life one day. So for me, 382 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: it just rings true. He's gonna do something great with 383 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: his life one day. But it was really up to me. 384 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: And man, I didn't know we were gonna go here today. 385 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: Man I didn't. But you know it's my burden in life. 386 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: I could have never changed NICKI. No matter what I do, 387 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: no matter what I accomplished, no matter what, it's what 388 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: I have to live with every single day. And like 389 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: I tell my wife, there will be a day I'll 390 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: have this under control. And that's the day she buries, 391 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: not a day sooner, not a minute later. Get under control. 392 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: What do you mean, Well, it's always a twenty four 393 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: hour journey and I've been doing that for thirty years, 394 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: twenty four hour reps, just trying to make it through. 395 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: They've been on a football field, have her hit on 396 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: the shore, and trying to make good decisions, man, so 397 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: my team wins, and my team is all those associated 398 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: with me, all those who have helped me the NFL, 399 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: all my former teammates, all my family, all them, and 400 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: all of them are depending on me to make really 401 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: good decisions. A buddy's wife is always telling me every 402 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: single day that boy're gonna do something great with his life. 403 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: And I just keep telling myself that over and over 404 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: and over and over again. So to me as a 405 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,479 Speaker 1: son and as a husband, as an employer, as a friend, 406 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: I try to be dependable. I don't have a lot 407 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: of friends, but the ones i'm friends with, I'm good. 408 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: They're good to me, and I'm good to them because 409 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: of what I went through and trying to get my 410 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: life turned around. You know, buddy Ryan just exposed me 411 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: to the world for what I really was, and then 412 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: it was up for me to try to make some adjustments. Man. 413 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: As you said, Chris and those who here Chris referring 414 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: to this guy named Nikki, that's me. As you just said, 415 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: we were not headed down in this direction, but God 416 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: knew we would because this is more than life. I 417 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: wasna your way better than anybody out there doing podcast. 418 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you because they ain't gonna get this. 419 00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: Thank you, This is Chris. This has been life changing. 420 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: There's one of the reason when you think about Troy Tracy, 421 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: the team are here that does that do this podcast? Man. 422 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: We don't want to sit down and just talk about football. 423 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: You just talked about life, man, you just talked about 424 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: life and irony in life. That the guy who exposure 425 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: to the world namesake Buddy became the buddy that helped 426 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: you discovered the real you. There's no doubt, man. I'm 427 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: forever grateful. He pushed me to a place I couldn't 428 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: get to myself. Thank you, Chris, No, no, thank you, bro. 429 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: This has been outstanding. Thank you for joining the Legends podcast. 430 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: I'm in s Williams. The best is yet to come. Yeah. 431 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback 432 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: or request a topic for discussion, email us at NFL 433 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: Legends at NFL dot com. Yeah. Yeah, h