1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: today's best minds and void Zipsos poll says Trump has 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: his lowest approval rating yet at thirty three percent. We 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: have such a great show for you today, Talking Points 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: Memos own Josh Marshall stops by to talk about that 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: very poll. Then we'll talk to the Brennan Center's own 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: Michael Waldman about election security coming into the midterms. But 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: first the news. Josh Marshall is the editor of Talking 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: Points Memo. Michael Waldman is the President and CEO of 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: the Brennan Center for Justice at the NYU School of Law. 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 2: Hi, America's debt, it's getting more expensive, and you know 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: who keeps spending like no other president before him? 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 3: Mister Trump. 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, who could have seen it? Who could have seen 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: that the guy who bankrupted all the casina would now 17 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: take a hand at bankrupting the American government. By the way, 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: I remember, I'm old enough to remember earlier on in 19 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: this administration where the richest span in the world said 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: he was going to end the debt? Do you remember 21 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: that with Doge? 22 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: I just remember that this deficit is always a problem 23 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 2: when there's a d nex to the president's name. But 24 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: then once that's gone, who cares what happens here. 25 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: Here's the problem, though, is that the debt that we 26 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: are is actually getting more and more expensive. And there's 27 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: a reason for that, and it's because it's more expensive 28 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: to hold the bonds, and that is because people are 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: more and more worried about America. None of that is good. Look, 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: we are one of the things that has given us 31 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: a lot of prosperity in the last fifty years is 32 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: that we've been able to have this. The dollar has 33 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: been the world world currency, which means that we have 34 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: been able to service our day at a much cheaper 35 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: rate than other than than the developing world. And here's 36 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: what happens. As the faith, the full faith in American 37 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: credit gets lessened and lessened, we start to have more 38 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: expensive borrowing, which ultimately can lead to real problems, especially 39 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: if your country sattled with as much debt as we are. 40 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: So remember a lot of our spending is just servicing 41 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: the debt because debt is expensive, and we're getting further 42 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: and further from God's like for us, which is being 43 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: able to afford our lifestyle. 44 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 2: God's late. 45 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: That's right. I've found religion, and it's in not servicing. 46 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: The debt after six years. 47 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: By the way, everything that Trump is doing is expensive, 48 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: like these multiple foreign wars and the numerous building projects. 49 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the building projects are now as expensive 50 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: as but you know, a billion here and a billion 51 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: there starts to really add up. But also just the 52 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: way that Trump does the tariffs and then having to 53 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: repay the tariffs, and then doing the tariffs again. You know, 54 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: at every point, my man is running the federal government 55 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: like a Ponzi scheme where it's never going to come doe. 56 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: And you know who gets schemed is the American. 57 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: Taxpayers speaking of, So we have decided to let regulation 58 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: and food inspections just go. 59 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: To the wayside my diarrhea lettuce. 60 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: So one of the other side effects of this. I've 61 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: talked about this before, but you know, I go to 62 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: a restaurant where, since I have the politically minded person, 63 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: the chef seems to know to talk ap while I 64 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: sit there. He loves to tell me about the price 65 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: of beef because I've listened one time and that what 66 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: we are seeing is because of beef shortages. We're now 67 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: losing jobs as Tysons in Jocelyn, Illinois is firing twenty 68 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: five hundred union jobs because they actually don't have enough 69 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: beef to service them, and things like SCREWRB and things 70 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: like that. Well they kill off cows. 71 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: So basically what we're seeing in real time is what 72 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: happens with deregulation. Right. Basically, Donald Trump is sort of 73 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: the jungle. The Upton Sinclair. 74 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 4: Book is good reference. 75 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: It's there very I'm very smart, many people are saying. 76 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: But so basically he is. He's cutting regulation. And so 77 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: we have diarrhea lettuce, we have salmonella, we have all 78 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: of the things that the government is supposed to And again, 79 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: like I was reading an article about the diarrhea lettuce 80 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: problem and it was you know, we have like some 81 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: sixty four food inspectors. I mean, we have some crazy 82 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: number of food inspectors. It is like so low you 83 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: think it's Donald Trump's polling. And the point of this 84 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: is not that it's not that we're saving money this way. 85 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 1: In fact, it actually ultimately is more expensive because he's 86 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: missing big problems that are going right. He's missing with 87 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: the citis foreign or the government is missing problems, and 88 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: so to end up catching up it ends up being 89 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: very expensive, right. They had to send the food inspectors, 90 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: the Tyler Farms food inspectors to Mexico, and that ended 91 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: up being, you know, more expensive than it would have 92 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: been to just catch it out if the first week 93 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: as opposed to in week four, week five. 94 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I always think of Ralph Nader explaining this 95 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 2: that he would in the seventies. And since we forget 96 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: every lesson we learned in the seventies, like row versus Wait, 97 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 2: that Ralph Vader is like, I'm saving you money by 98 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: showing you your seat beltzer feeling, and these things are 99 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: filling in your cars with consumer reports and companies all went. 100 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: Who cares about the lives? We'd rather be reckless. 101 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly, And that's where we are here. And 102 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: this is one of these things in Trump world where 103 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: it's like, we know, this is a mistake. It's like 104 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: he had another problem of his own making. And that's 105 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: something Donald Trump does very well. 106 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: So ABC has filed a First Amendment lawsuit against the FC. 107 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: Brendan Carr is well Brendan Carring, and I. 108 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: Love this so much for him, like Brandon Carr. It's 109 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: like he's such So ABC files the First Amendment lawsuit 110 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: against the FCC, claiming Trump administration's retaliatory campaign. There is 111 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: no one in the world who does not believe this 112 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: to be true. In fact, if you ask Donald Trump, 113 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: if you went into the Oval and we're like, are 114 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: you doing a retaliatory campaign against ABC? What do you 115 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: think you'd say? Of course there that if you ask them, 116 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: they would say they were doing it, because that's what 117 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: they do. This is like the mobster presidente and like, 118 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: if you asked me'd be like, I just wish they 119 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: could be more like you know, CBS and Paramount. I 120 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: don't want to have like a news news station should 121 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: only be MAGA and so like, this is one of 122 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: these interesting I think it's actually interesting because it's clear 123 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: what's happening here. Everyone knows that Donald Trump is singling 124 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: out networks where they have content he doesn't like. So 125 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: the question is, and this will go undoubtedly, this will 126 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: go into the courts, and it will go from court 127 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: to court to court. Ultimately, the question will be when 128 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: this goes to the Supreme Court, which is undoubtedly well 129 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: because Trump world will try to fight this, you know, 130 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: and it looks like Disney will too. The question I'm 131 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: going to have is like the Supreme Court is getting 132 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: is being put in a worse and worse position. Right, 133 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: Trump went to them for the Egene Carol five million 134 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: dollars and they said no. Then he went to them 135 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: again for the Eugene five million dollar yet they said no. 136 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: Like at every point, he's treated this Supreme Court like 137 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: they are his personal lawyer, because why shouldn't he. He's 138 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: got Todd Blanchees the Attorney General, and this Supreme Court 139 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: is pretty hackish and partisan. But even they like to 140 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: think of themselves as not being in service to Donald Trump. 141 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean they won't act in service of 142 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. A lot of times they will. But I'll 143 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: be really curious to see how this goes, because Trump 144 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: is going to ask them for things, and like when 145 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: it comes to corporate stuff, they're happy to do it 146 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: right because it serves their other masters, which are the 147 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: surviving Koch brother Now, when it's something like this where 148 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: it's clearly so against the constitution, right so against the 149 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: First Amendment, I'll be very curious to see how they 150 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: decide because some of these decisions like are like, you know, 151 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: like stripping protective status from all of those Haitians, like 152 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: they're like dread stop Scott. They will later be used 153 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: to undermine the validity of this cord, and some of 154 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: them are not, so I'll be interested to see how 155 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: they find on this. I think this my guess, and 156 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: again this is just a guess, is that this Supreme 157 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: Court is getting pretty sick of being used like uh 158 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: in atm by Donald Trump. 159 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: All Right, Molly, now we have a fun one. So 160 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 2: one of the most confusing figures in Mecca world has 161 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 2: all been this man named Scott Presler. 162 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Now I custom your take on him for a minute. 163 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: Okay, I want to say this to listeners that I 164 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: say this as someone who loves my gay and queer friends, 165 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: so I'm not saying this in any way. But it 166 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 2: is confounding how MAGA embraces a man that is this 167 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 2: outwardly cliche gay when they are often so homophobic. But 168 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 2: what some of it is is that Scott Pressler is. 169 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: And he's not gay. Does he say he's not gay 170 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: or does he say he's good. 171 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest with you, I've let that part 172 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: be a mystery to me. To just because I don't 173 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: want to know. I don't really care what people do 174 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 2: the right it doesn't concern. But here's the thing that 175 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 2: is very fie. Scott Presler has long built this myth 176 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 2: that he is the greatest voter register that the Republican 177 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: parready ever has. Russian bab move over Scott Pressler and 178 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: his jeans that are so tight you're amazed he can 179 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: Breathe is here to register votes. Well, Scott Presler just 180 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: got I complained from public citizen that alleges that his 181 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: practices are not on the up and up. 182 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: Scott Presler is a ridiculous figure. And part of it 183 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: is he has his very long hair, he's very thin, 184 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: he dresses in a very strange way. He also just 185 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: plays to a lot of the tropes of MAGA and 186 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the worst lies of MAGA. And he 187 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 1: also goes around and does a lot of clearly he's 188 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: doing a lot of illegal stuff here and again I 189 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: want to pull back and just remind vote, remind voters, 190 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: remind listeners here that this is that a lot maga 191 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: has come with voting laws before. You'll remember the richest 192 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: man in the world, Elon Mush, who did, in fact 193 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: offer money for votes in the state of Wisconsin, which 194 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: turns out to be illegal. Right, he said, you pay, 195 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: You'll pay a million dollars to anyone who voted, and 196 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: that in that crazy Supreme Court race, which by the way, 197 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: they lost even though he poured money into it. So 198 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: this crew, I just it is every point when they 199 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: can't win, they cheat and that and this is yet 200 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: another case of it. His recent efforts to influence voters 201 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court may have run a foul 202 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: of the state's campaign finance laws. Who could have seen it? 203 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: I could? 204 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: All right, my I got I got a fact check 205 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 2: for you. 206 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 207 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 2: Scott Pressler is the founder of Gays for Trump. 208 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: Oh that's nice. Well, at least he. 209 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: Yes prodible that. 210 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 4: I'm proud of it. 211 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 5: For that. 212 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: Telling you it's for a leopard for it. 213 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: Still makes it no less confusing when Ken Paxton is 214 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: giving him one of his weird looks and embracing Yeah, yeah. 215 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: It's something. 216 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 4: Welcome. Welcome. 217 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: I feel like we get so desensitized to Trump's approval 218 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: rating falls from thirty five percent to thirty three percent, 219 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: which is the lowest of his presidency. Suicide Reuters ipsos. 220 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: It's also the lowest in modern political history coming into 221 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: a midterm, right, Oh, I think. 222 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 4: Far and away it's it's it's it's the lowest. 223 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 6: You know, the the analogs that people use, we go 224 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 6: to are Trump on January seventh of twenty twenty one, 225 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 6: or Nixon in a few weeks before he resigned from office. 226 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 6: I don't think we've ever seen it this low before midterm. Look, 227 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 6: we don't know what's going to happen in three months 228 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 6: or I guess a little less than three months right now. 229 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 6: And it is true, as a lot of people point 230 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 6: out that they're Democrats, democratic brand is taken on a 231 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 6: lot of water. But I do think the political class, 232 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 6: the political conversation in the country hasn't really grappled with 233 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 6: just how bad the environment appears to be for Republicans, 234 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 6: bad for Trump, bad for Republicans, good for Democrats. Just 235 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 6: how much is hard to say, But you know, I 236 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 6: think it's become kind of a consensus now that not 237 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 6: that the Democrats will take the Senate, but that it's 238 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 6: very possible and may even be the odds on probability, 239 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 6: And that is remarkable for the same reason that you 240 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 6: know everybody who's saying a year ago, it's basically impossible 241 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 6: because the only seats that are up are. 242 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 4: Strickly yeah yeah yeah. 243 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 6: And in a lot of cases states that Trump won 244 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 6: by big margins, right, you know, Texas, Iowa, Alaska, you 245 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 6: know they're all in contention. 246 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 4: Now, Ohio, you know. 247 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: There are sort of I want to I'm going to 248 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: read another very annoying thing, but I think it's important. So, 249 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: so there are seven big Senate races, right, Texas, Michigan, Maine, Right, Texas, 250 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: This is not a democratic state, Michigan, Maine. Right, Michigan 251 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: is protecting a seat. Maine could be a flip, Ohio, Iowa, Alaska, 252 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: and North Carolina. I mean so, and Democrats need to 253 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: win five of seven, so they need to protect Michigan, 254 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: and then they need to win. And this seems not insane. Right, 255 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: North Carolina, they're define it unlike un less something happens, 256 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: they're going to win. 257 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: North Catia. 258 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 4: They're definitely favored there. 259 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 6: I wouldn't even say that, you know, the North Carolina 260 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 6: is only a bit behind Texas as being you know, 261 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 6: a kind of a graveyard of Democratic dreams, right, So 262 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 6: I would you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't take things 263 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 6: as a certainty. But they are certainly the favorites there, 264 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 6: there's no question. 265 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 266 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: And Alaska Potola has been ahead in almost every poll. 267 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: Iowa is this very interesting moment where they have the cancer, 268 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: the groundwater, the very good gouvenatorial rob sand like just 269 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: a perfect storm of sort of you know, we got 270 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: Obama cutting an ad for Turrek, I mean, just sort 271 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: of a perfect storm of the right kind of Democrats 272 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: being the right kind of genteel for that state. Ohio, 273 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: I think if anyone can win that at share of 274 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: brown Maine again, is I think a big question mark 275 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: Michigan and Texas. 276 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 6: You know, Texas is one of these sort of extreme well, 277 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 6: it's definitely an own goal for the Republicans, the question 278 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 6: of is it enough of an own goal to overcome 279 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 6: the fact that Texas is a pretty Republican state. I mean, 280 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 6: you know, we we It's a funny thing because I'm 281 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 6: trying to remember, I think better o' rourke what lost 282 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 6: by a couple percentage points, right, I mean came came 283 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 6: quite close. So yeah, and it's you know, one of 284 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 6: the things that I think is interesting and understandable is 285 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 6: that Democrats at this point will see a you know, 286 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 6: see a poll where their candidate is up by three 287 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 6: or four points and will say, Okay, it's not looking good, 288 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 6: but like, we're not out of this. It's still possible, 289 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 6: you know, because they are used to well, really, what 290 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 6: it comes down to is the twenty twenty four election 291 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 6: was a deeply traumatizing experience for all Democrats, both at 292 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 6: the presidential level but also at the senatorial level. Yeah, 293 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 6: and in twenty twenty there were a lot of races 294 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 6: that really, see Semed seemed like Susan Collins was toast, 295 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 6: and obviously she wasn't toast. I mean, I'm actually a 296 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 6: little more bullish about that race, I think than some 297 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 6: people are, precisely because Jackson seems like decent enough guy 298 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 6: and pretty boring. 299 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: And my theory of I have two theories I want 300 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: to flow to you. So my theory of Maine, I 301 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: have a theory for man in a theory for Texas. 302 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: So my theory of Maine is that actually Jackson is 303 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: who Graham Platina pretended to be like. 304 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 4: Terms of background, well not just like a real maner. 305 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 6: He's kind of like from what I understand, from one 306 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 6: of these towns where there's like three hundred people, and 307 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 6: like they've all been you know, their ancestors have all 308 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 6: been living there for two centuries, right, and their loggers 309 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 6: and right. 310 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 4: And he's a little different world. 311 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 312 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not like an oyster shock, an oyster farmer 313 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: who's the son of a you know, I have an 314 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: investment banker who's the grandson of a of a designer 315 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: of a high level disagn architect samous architect. So I mean, 316 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: so I think he's like the real deal. And again, 317 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,239 Speaker 1: that is part of the problem with Maine is that 318 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: Democrats have often seemed as if they were from Portland 319 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: and not from real Maine. So again, this is a 320 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: working class voter situation. But the other thing I would 321 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: add is in Texas, we never Beto never won in 322 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: any of those polls, right, There was never a poll 323 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: with Beto up. It was always like tight. Whereas here 324 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of polls where the Democratic cat 325 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: is up and packs in. Even though he worked very 326 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: hard to destroy Cornin and you know he definitely did it, 327 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: he has seems like he does not have his heart 328 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: in this thing anymore. 329 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's that that whole part is a little hard 330 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 6: for me to quite get a handle on. I have 331 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 6: not we have at TPM. We have hawkingpointsmemo dot com. 332 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 6: You should check out our amazing our amazing news website. 333 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 6: We have covered his scandals forever. But but but I 334 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 6: don't think we've ever I mean again, it's attorney general, right, 335 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 6: So it's not like it's a it's a it's a 336 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 6: top tier race with with national implications. So we have 337 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 6: never covered one of his campaigns. So he's he's a 338 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 6: kind of a weird guy. Maybe this is him being hardcore. 339 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 6: I have no idea, but but it is that. But 340 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 6: it is absolutely true in a lot of these previous cycles, 341 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 6: Democrats think, uh, you know, it's a good year if 342 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 6: we're you know, tied or a point or two behind, 343 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 6: you know, motivation is gonna is gonna carry us through. 344 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 6: But it's true they are ahead in most or possibly 345 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 6: even all of these racism I'm not sure. So again, 346 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 6: it's it's there's there's It is always good to be 347 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 6: running like you are behind, because there's no downside to 348 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 6: stacking on a few extra points, right, But there's a 349 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 6: big downside to to to it's closer than you think, 350 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 6: and there at least there at least is limited evidence 351 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 6: less in mid terms, but even a little in midterms 352 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 6: that some Republican voters are harder to get to. So 353 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 6: but it certainly looks pretty good, I would say. You know, 354 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 6: I guess my hunch is about where the sort of 355 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 6: the big prognostic the big modeling prognosticators are. And by that, right, 356 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 6: I don't mean supermodels. I mean people were actually looking 357 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 6: at numbers, not polymarket or something like that. 358 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: Right, So, yeah, it's the polling is an issue. What 359 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: But I want to go back actually to something you 360 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: said at the beginning of this, because I think it's 361 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: worth talking about for another minute, which is the political 362 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: class does not realize how unhappy normal people are and 363 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: how Trump is getting blamed for all of this. And 364 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: I think that's right, and I'm very surprised by that. 365 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: Like you look at these numbers and they are astonishing, right, 366 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: I mean, there's not any wish casting here. It's just 367 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: like astonishing. And when you see Trump get up and 368 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: do stuff, it is like exactly the opposite of the 369 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: stuff he should be doing, right, Like he's taking that 370 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: you know, the Egene Carol thing to the Supreme Court again. 371 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: He's going to the Supreme Court for the ballroom again. 372 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 1: He's going like at every point he's gonna go, you know, 373 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: hang out with Kim Jong un. Now why because he 374 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: thinks it might help him maybe in Iran. I mean 375 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: just at every point you're like, huh, Like, if you're 376 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: Susie Wiles, like, how much peptobismo must you be taking? 377 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I think I think there's a couple 378 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 6: of things happening with Trump. One is that I think 379 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 6: he is definitely in his yolo phase and he kind of, 380 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 6: you know, he kind of cares about the investigations, but 381 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 6: kind of doesn't care, right, He's making big money. And 382 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 6: and they they dealt with the investigations in twenty nineteen 383 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 6: and twenty twenty, I think they'll be dealing with a 384 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 6: somewhat different Democratic caucus now. But in any case, I 385 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 6: also but I also think that he is just very isolated, right, 386 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 6: And that is I think the even bigger, the even 387 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 6: bigger part of the equation. There's things like you know, 388 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 6: kind of saying where you know clearly there is that 389 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 6: you have these you have these aircraft carriers that have 390 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 6: been on these extremely long deployments. Whether it is exactly 391 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 6: as bad as as as as we're here, you know, 392 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 6: who knows, but it is clearly not great. Even simply 393 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 6: being on a deployment for that long without any short 394 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 6: calls will start to we'll start to kind of weh 395 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 6: away at a at a crew. And when you say 396 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 6: things like no, it's fine, they need more time, it's 397 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 6: just people hear that, and that is it's weird. And 398 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 6: you're right, he's doing all the things you would expect 399 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 6: that you would expect him to do to make his 400 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 6: situation worse. I will say this that if you go back, 401 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 6: for those of us who have been doing this for 402 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 6: a really long time, if you go back to two 403 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 6: thousand and six, all the available evidence for a long 404 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 6: long time was that the Republicans are going to get 405 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 6: crushed because Bush is really unpopular, the Thera, the Iraq War, 406 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 6: losing track of our of our Middle Eastern wars. Uh, 407 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 6: the Iraq war is super unpopular. The polls show it's on, 408 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 6: you know, it's unpopular, and Democrats are winning all these 409 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 6: off kind of special elections or stuff like this. But 410 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 6: you got very deep into the fall until the political 411 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 6: class kind of woke up to that. It was treated 412 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 6: as can democrats really do this? It's you know, they're 413 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 6: they're gonna whiff and all this kind of stuff. And 414 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 6: in some ways they they grabbed onto this. What was 415 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 6: for people who around the time the Foley scandal to say, oh, okay, 416 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 6: we weren't wrong before this new thing happened. 417 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 4: In any case, the. 418 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 6: The political class not quite not quite waking to these 419 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 6: things is not uncommon, and I think that's very few reasons. 420 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 6: One is that they are heavily they are heavily based 421 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 6: in in in in New York and d C. 422 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 3: D C is its own. 423 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 6: Political microcosm, and it's in a lot of ways heavily 424 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 6: wired for the Republican Party. And the other thing is that, 425 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 6: in a way that I think is hard for people 426 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 6: to quite grasp, a lot of the political class lives 427 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 6: within the sort of mental anxiety world of Democrats. Yeah, 428 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 6: so they are hearing simultaneously all the angst and fear 429 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 6: and worry of Democrats and all the trash talk of Republicans. 430 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 5: Right. 431 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 6: So again it's not that it's not that strange. And frankly, 432 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 6: you're talking about a level of unpopularity here that is 433 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 6: as you say, unprecedented in modern history right before an election. 434 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting. I mean I wonder about that too, 435 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: because I have this interesting thing, which is that I've 436 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: noticed a lot of the and again this is just 437 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: real talk. This is not from what I understand see socially, 438 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: A lot of very rich Democrats have decided to become 439 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: Republicans over taxes in Israel. And they probably were that 440 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: way and not honest about it before the September the 441 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: October sixth stuff, But now they've become radicalized and are 442 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: convinced that anti Semitism is everywhere and coming for them. 443 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 4: Now. 444 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: I don't see that. I mean, I think that's nuts, 445 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: and I think Republicans are not going to be the 446 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: people who protect the Jews from the fact that like 447 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: a good fifty percent of the party is anti Semitic, 448 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: maybe more. But there definitely is a section of people 449 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: who are like that now, which is I mean, I 450 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: don't think it's statistically significant, but I think it might be. 451 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: It's certainly part of the donor clause, it's certainly part of. 452 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 4: The donor class. 453 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 6: I think where you see it, I mean, obviously the 454 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 6: people most worked up about it, anti Semitism tend to 455 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 6: be Jews by the year, just the once you're most 456 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 6: concerned about it. And I think anti Semitism in this 457 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 6: country right now is a very real issue and a 458 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,120 Speaker 6: big deal. I don't think the Republicans are going to 459 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 6: save us Jews from it. And but I but I 460 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 6: where where I do think you're right that it that 461 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 6: it comes into play is that in New York City 462 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 6: among the very wealthy in New York City, and then 463 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 6: kind of in the in the sub oligard class, especially 464 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 6: among a lot of Jews, they're sort of you know, 465 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 6: they used to be it was comfortable for them to 466 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 6: be Democrats, and now it's it's not. And a lot 467 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 6: of them have become radicalized, There's no question about that. 468 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 6: And you see that, you know, you see that, You 469 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 6: see that showing up in You see that showing up 470 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 6: in a lot of ways. 471 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 4: I but what it comes down to is you don't 472 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 4: what you don't. 473 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 6: A lot of what is inspiring the kind of Northeast 474 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 6: elite Northeast conversation where the big thing is or on Mondani, 475 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 6: various kind of you know, litigations of aspects of trans 476 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 6: politics and all all these kinds of things. In the 477 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 6: rest of the country, there is a foundly negative mood 478 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 6: that is heavily tied to the economy, heavily tied to 479 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 6: gas prices, which are the proxy for the economy, and 480 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 6: just this sense that there are no rules anymore and 481 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 6: everybody's upset and that that just runs very deep, and 482 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 6: certainly a lot of what Trump is seeing in his 483 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 6: numbers right now. 484 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 4: I mean, some of that is just the Trump sucks 485 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 4: right now and people seeing that again. But it's not 486 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 4: just that. 487 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 6: It's also that people are just really upset about the 488 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 6: state of the country and Trump is getting even more 489 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 6: of that because he seems to be fairly indifferent to 490 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 6: the things that they are upset about. 491 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 4: And certainly, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, So you. 492 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 6: Know, I think that I think that DC and New York, 493 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 6: despite all the things that they are upset about, are 494 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 6: kind of in a bubble when it comes. 495 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 4: To what the rest of the country is. And there's 496 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 4: some overlap, but not. 497 00:27:58,600 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 3: That much. 498 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: And when I think about you know, it's funny because 499 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: we were talking about Iowa before, and Trump has sent 500 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: his people out on the trail now, so he's got 501 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: RFK Junior, and he's got Pete haig Seth. He's got 502 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: all people who are not supposed to be on the. 503 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 7: Trail right, people who work for the federal government, who 504 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 7: are taxpayer dollars, who are supposed to be dealing with 505 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 7: the diarrhea lettuce or the six Wars that he's launched. 506 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 1: Those people are now campaigning. And I think about Iowa, 507 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: and here's the state where the Democrats in Iowa are 508 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: running as sort of nonpartisans, right, like Rob sand which 509 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: they have to Yeah, the brand is bad. And Rob 510 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: sand is saying, you know, I'm a you know, I'm 511 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,479 Speaker 1: not a let you know, he just is very thoughtful 512 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: about the way he's doing. He says he's a Prairie populist. 513 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: And we're seeing the same with Josh Turk. And then 514 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: you have Pete Hegseeth going to Iowa to criticize Democrats 515 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: and to be very partisan. And I'm mega and I 516 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: wonder in Iowa if that's actually not the move. 517 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, there's an argument that if you're that 518 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 6: they may be in a position that they need to 519 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 6: just need to turbot charge their people, right, even though 520 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 6: their people are in a minority at the moment, at 521 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 6: least possibly in the in the context of this of 522 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 6: this election, it's some of it is that Trump has 523 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 6: just got himself in a really, really bad situation with 524 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 6: this war he started for basically no reason at all. Yes, 525 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 6: and there aren't you know, he doesn't have a lot 526 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 6: of good options, and he is he's character logically unable 527 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 6: even in the way that politicians are sometimes able to do, 528 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 6: to kind of say like Okay, bad move, let's let's 529 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 6: let's unwind this, let's let's let's let's call this a day. 530 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 6: He's just unable to do that. So I'm not I'm 531 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 6: not totally sure they have a better card to play. 532 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 6: But you know what, I what I what I try 533 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 6: to tell people sometimes when the shoes on the other foot, 534 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 6: sometimes you just fuck right and you don't have a 535 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 6: lot of good cards to play, and and what I 536 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 6: you know another thing I always tell me, every every 537 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 6: every losing campaign looks like it's run by idiots. But 538 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 6: sometimes you just you're you're in a you're in a jam. 539 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 6: And I think they are in a jam. We just 540 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 6: don't know quite how much, quite how much they're in jam. 541 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 6: But again to the to the to the point, uh, 542 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 6: Trump seems to want to just lean into the image 543 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 6: and the reality of himself as an aging, out of 544 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 6: touch man who does not care what is bothering you. 545 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 6: You need to shut up because you should be you 546 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 6: should be loving him, and if you're not, you're the problem. 547 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 4: Correct. 548 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Thank you. 549 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 6: Josh Marshall, thanks for having me, because always I appreciate it. 550 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: Josh Marshall is the editor of Talking Points Memo. Michael 551 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: Waldman is the Predident, President and CEO of the Brennan 552 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: Center for Justice at the edmy. 553 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 7: U School of Law. 554 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Michael Waldman to. 555 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 3: Be with you. 556 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: So let's talk about elections, election security. You're the head 557 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: of the Brand Center. You guys do a lot of 558 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: election step First talk to us about election security and 559 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: AI because everything has to be about AI. 560 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's all you got to do is say AI 561 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 5: and you can add to your evaluation. 562 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 3: You know, of your stock. 563 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 5: You know, if you think about the way technology has 564 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 5: affected the country, it often has a big impact at 565 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 5: a certain point on elections and how we govern ourselves. 566 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 5: Radio in the nineteen thirties, you know, Roosevelt or Hitler 567 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 5: or masters of that. Television television had been around before 568 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 5: nineteen sixty, but you know, the debates showing sweating Richard 569 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 5: Nixon and glamorous John Kennedy certainly were enough to tip 570 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 5: the election to Kennedy given how tight it was. Twenty 571 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 5: sixteen was the election where social media had such a 572 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 5: big impact. 573 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 3: One one study showed that in the in the weeks. 574 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 5: Before the election, there were there was more stories, more 575 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 5: engagement on fake news, almost all of it helping Trump, 576 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 5: then on actual hard news about the election on Facebook 577 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 5: and platforms like that. 578 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 3: And and now we've got AI. 579 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 5: And you know, in twenty twenty four chat GPT had 580 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 5: launched already, but people really not that many. 581 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 3: People were using it. 582 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 5: Now half of all Americans use chat bots, a quarter 583 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 5: go to them every day, and increasingly people are using 584 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 5: them for election information. As we were just talking, if 585 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 5: you if you want to know about an issue or 586 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 5: candidates or something, a lot of people are going not 587 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,959 Speaker 5: just to do the research by going to Google, but 588 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 5: to these chatbots. 589 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 3: So we want to Google. 590 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 4: Technically you can't escape it. 591 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, you can't escape it if you if you don't 592 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,239 Speaker 5: want to use AI, it's really hard not to at 593 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 5: this point, and so we want it under stand in particular. 594 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 3: You know, there's all different kinds of ways. 595 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 5: First of all, has become a big issue in the 596 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 5: election with data centers and all kinds of other things. 597 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 5: But how will AI affect the thing One of the 598 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 5: things we're particularly worried about as we look at election security, 599 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 5: which is misinformation, disinformation, the kind of stuff that got 600 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 5: shared on social media to such ill effect before. And 601 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 5: so for six months we had a bunch of technology 602 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 5: experts looking at all the top chatbots, all the consumer 603 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 5: names you know, you would know Claude, chat, gbt Grock, Gemini, 604 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 5: all these others. And what they found was on this 605 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 5: issue of misinformation was interesting, somewhat surprising in some ways, 606 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 5: some good news which is always a pleasant surprise, and 607 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 5: some bad news. So the good news is these chatbots 608 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 5: are very good at pushing back against the false rumors 609 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 5: and the and the the the disinformation. 610 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: You know, dots that are thought of that are like 611 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: that are created by Elon Yes. 612 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 3: And they all of them. 613 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 5: And we thought, well, you know, they flatter you, right, 614 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 5: So if you go on and say I believe in 615 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 5: these election conspiracies, I just think there's a lot of 616 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 5: non citizens voting. 617 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 3: I've heard all about it. 618 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 5: We thought, oh, well, they'll say, oh, that's a great, 619 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 5: great point, you know, and they do say that's a 620 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 5: great point, but you know it's not true. And and 621 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 5: uniformly they pushed back, and and that that was I 622 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 5: would say a positive pleasant surprise in that you know, 623 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 5: they're relying on a lot of public data, presumably a 624 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 5: lot of the lawsuits that Trump lost, a lot of 625 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 5: coverage of how all this stuff is nonsense, So that 626 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 5: that's encouraging, and they actually push back in a way 627 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 5: that isn't isn't like telling people know you're wrong, dummy, 628 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 5: but you know right, but explaining it, but explaining it 629 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 5: in the psychologically manipulative ways that we know these these tests. 630 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 3: So that's the good news. What's the bad news? You 631 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 3: can imagine. 632 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 5: The thing we're really worried about is the creation of images, 633 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 5: photos or movies, you know, film, moving images or documents 634 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 5: or whatever that seemed to somehow prove these false theories, 635 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 5: you know, voting machines flipping votes, election workers stuffing ballot boxes, 636 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 5: non citizens voting, all that kind of stuff. And we 637 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 5: went to these chatbots for help in creating that that stuff. Well, 638 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 5: Grock in particular, I mean, it was rather complicated process. 639 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 5: We asked them for help creating the prompts to wage 640 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 5: a whole campaign, and number of them said that we 641 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 5: can't do that. 642 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 3: Grock in thinking and thinking out loud. 643 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 5: As you know, where it's sort of these there's a 644 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 5: technical term for it, where like it says doing this, 645 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 5: doing this, it says something like election, this information is 646 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 5: not prohibited. 647 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 3: It's not a prohibited activity. 648 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 5: Set it right right, very explicitly, And the result was 649 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 5: that we were able to get all of these chat 650 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 5: bots to create very realistic images of non citizens voting, 651 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 5: of people stuffing ballot boxes, even more realistic in a 652 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 5: way documents purportedly from the government that said, oh, yeah, 653 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 5: we know there's lots of non citizens voting on fake 654 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 5: DHS stationary and you and there are ways of and 655 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 5: they even helped and provided backstories and facts to validate 656 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 5: this stuff. 657 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 3: And so that was really unnerving. 658 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 5: And the other thing that was unnerving is it turns 659 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 5: out these chatbots, while pushing back against the disinformation, are 660 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 5: really not effective at identifying images that are AI generated 661 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 5: that are disinformation. In other words, if you show these 662 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 5: same images of the guy, you know, the stuffing a 663 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 5: ballot box and say I saw this online and is 664 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 5: this real? These chatbots very often will say yes it is. 665 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 5: Even if it says AI generated on it, they will say, yeah, 666 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 5: that's real. So if you think about the kinds of 667 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 5: questions people might be asking these chatbots, not just I 668 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,439 Speaker 5: have zucchini and peanut butter, what recipe can I make 669 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 5: for it? 670 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,959 Speaker 3: Or you know, what is this? I found this old 671 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 3: medicine in my cabinet. 672 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 5: What does it mean if people are going to these 673 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 5: chatbots and asking them not just whosha I vote for? 674 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 5: But what should I think about this image that I 675 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 5: saw today of someone stealing an election? 676 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 3: They're not a very good gatekeeper, so that's the. 677 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: Stuffy that must be. 678 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 3: Well, they could be, and there's actually some new laws. 679 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 5: One of the questions, of course, with all this stuff 680 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 5: is how are we going to govern ourselves as a 681 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,240 Speaker 5: society in grappling with this new technology. As you remember 682 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,439 Speaker 5: a couple of years ago, there was an attempt last 683 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 5: year by the Republicans by Trump to preempt all the 684 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 5: state laws, meaning that no state could have any law 685 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 5: dealing with AI. And Marjorie Taylor Green, of all people, 686 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 5: this was her first glimmer of apostasy from MAGA said what, 687 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 5: that's terrible, we can't do that, and actually got it 688 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 5: killed in Congress when she was still in Congress with others. 689 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,240 Speaker 5: And California just passed a law that went into effect 690 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 5: about two weeks ago that basically, to summarize it, orders 691 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 5: these AI companies to flag fake images that they've created, 692 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,760 Speaker 5: and they do it with metadata invisible, but it should 693 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 5: be readable to other robots, and it's only just now 694 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 5: come into effect. Only one of them, geminized I believe, 695 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 5: could figure out read that data, but we're encouraging the 696 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 5: companies to have to do that, you know, and the 697 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 5: law does require it, and so there are things of 698 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 5: that nature that can be done. I also think, as 699 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 5: you think about why were they chatbots good at pushing 700 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 5: back on the disinformation about you know, who won the 701 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 5: twenty twenty one election or the machines flipping votes, is 702 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 5: because there's a lot of publicly available stuff that they're 703 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:13,359 Speaker 5: training on. And so everybody, government officials, government offices, nonprofits, journalists, 704 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 5: to the extent possible really to make this stuff available 705 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 5: easily outside of paywall, because that's what's going to train 706 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 5: these chatbosts to not lie. 707 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: I would love you to talk about there's a lot 708 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: of anxiety about these elections, these midterms, and about what 709 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: Trump is going to do or not. Do you happen 710 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: to know the law when it comes to this, and 711 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: or the head of a big think tank that does 712 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: the legal work writes a lot of the tours that 713 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: go to the Supreme Court, And you guys are really 714 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,879 Speaker 1: in the forefront. First, I want you to tell us 715 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: that the elections are going to be safe and secure. 716 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: Then I want you to tell us what Trump could 717 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: do and what he can't do when it comes to 718 00:39:59,239 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: the midterms. 719 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 5: I do think the elections will be safe and secure. 720 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 5: I think it has required a big fight to get 721 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 5: to that point and will continue to require a fight 722 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,720 Speaker 5: over the next three months. We know that the system 723 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 5: has been very strong and very resilient in recent years, 724 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,800 Speaker 5: but that for the very first time in American history, 725 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 5: the federal government, the Trump administration, has a clear and 726 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 5: concerted campaign to undermine the midterms, to undermine the elections, 727 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 5: and that just has never happened before. And it's not 728 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 5: just all the things Trump says, though he does certainly 729 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 5: say endlessly, all the things he does to try to 730 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 5: undermine confidence. It's a whole bunch of different things his 731 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 5: administration has done or tried to do. And here's the 732 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 5: good news. We've talked about this before. He has his strategy, 733 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 5: we have ours every one of his moves. We pretty 734 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 5: much now know what the counter moves are. So many 735 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 5: of them are flatly illegal. And it is in fact 736 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,919 Speaker 5: the case so far that the legal system is whole. 737 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 5: So there's actually quite a bit of success, growing evidence 738 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 5: of success and pushing back at this stuff. Trump has 739 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 5: done two executive orders trying to purporting to take personal 740 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 5: control of the election system. The one earlier this year 741 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 5: ordered the US Postal Service not deliver mail ballots legally 742 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 5: cast mail ballots unless the voter was on a list 743 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 5: that doesn't exist yet created by the Department of Home 744 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 5: Land Security, because you know what could go wrong with that. 745 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,320 Speaker 1: Right, But the goal is that things go wrong. 746 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, And just this week a lawsuit we brought with others, 747 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,959 Speaker 5: with the ACLU and others on behalf of the legal 748 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 5: women voters of Massachusetts prevailed and the Postal Service was 749 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 5: ordered not to do this. And this follows on other 750 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 5: rulings in this case and then there was an executive 751 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 5: order last year that also has been blocked by the courts. 752 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 5: So the law is clear. States run elections. Congress has 753 00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 5: a very important role setting national policy and passing and 754 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,879 Speaker 5: can supersede what the states do. Presidents have no roll 755 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 5: under the constitution, very explicitly, and. 756 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 3: So the legal system is holding. 757 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,840 Speaker 5: And people say, oh, yeah, but Trump, he doesn't follow 758 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 5: the rules, he doesn't follow the law. Well, these court 759 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 5: rulings have been so consistent and so strong they actually 760 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 5: are following them. As in general matter. There's a lot 761 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 5: of other things they're trying to do to undermine states, 762 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 5: to undermine the election officials. They're threatening prosecutions, they're demanding 763 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 5: voter lists from the states. But it's getting pretty late 764 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 5: in the year and states have refused for something like 765 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 5: fourteen federal courts have ruled that they don't have the power, 766 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 5: for example, to ask for these voter lists or to 767 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 5: get these voter lists, and it's getting much harder for 768 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 5: them to purge all the voters from the roles and 769 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 5: do a lot of these other malevolent misdeeds that might 770 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:53,720 Speaker 5: be in the works. 771 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 3: The one thing that hasn't happened. 772 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 5: Yet that we're all worried about is the use of 773 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 5: troops or ice or other things like that at the polls. 774 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 5: And in fact, Trump was asked about this the other 775 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:06,760 Speaker 5: day and duck the question. 776 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 3: And the thing to. 777 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 5: Note, Molly is that's flatly illegal to send ice or 778 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 5: troops to the polls. It's illegal under lots of different 779 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 5: federal and state laws. 780 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 3: And we now see that. I'm not I'm often skeptical 781 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 3: of litigation as a strategy. It is clear the courts 782 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 3: are stepping up here. Now. 783 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 5: You wouldn't want to have something happen where there's a 784 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 5: court ruling saying you can't do this, But it's so 785 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,879 Speaker 5: close to the election that people are still scared off. 786 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 3: Excuse me. 787 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,320 Speaker 5: So part of the answer has to be a civic 788 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 5: mobilization for voting, not for a campaign, not for party 789 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 5: or candidate, but just to make sure everybody and communities 790 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,359 Speaker 5: that are understandably terrorized by ice and others can vote. 791 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,760 Speaker 5: So people should vote early, people should vote by mail, 792 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 5: people should know that their votes will be counted. There's 793 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 5: a civil mobilization with groups like the Lead of Women 794 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 5: Voters and many others, clergy and lots of other people 795 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 5: to help people vote. 796 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:07,720 Speaker 3: Safely. 797 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,279 Speaker 5: But I do think the most important thing right now 798 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 5: is we all need to not listen to the noise. 799 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 3: And if people make. 800 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 5: A plan and vote, the election will come off and 801 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,399 Speaker 5: nothing they do can really undermine that. 802 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,760 Speaker 1: Can Trump do anything to undermine people's votes once they're placed. 803 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 5: So there is always the worry that they will try to, 804 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,480 Speaker 5: for starters, use delays in voting, in the counting of 805 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 5: votes to so doubt and claim fraud. I mean, we 806 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,760 Speaker 5: saw that in California and the mayoral election in Los Angeles, 807 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 5: for example, and there's no question that will do that again. 808 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 5: There's always been a worry that there'll be election deniers 809 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 5: in different jobs now around the country, and these in 810 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 5: these election offices who will somehow refuse to certify the 811 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 5: results of an election, and when the voters have voted 812 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 5: a certain. 813 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 3: Way, that's also illegal. 814 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 5: That stuff is really supposed to be very bread and butter, 815 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 5: almost a bureaucratic box checking thing. You're not the election 816 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 5: officials are not supposed to be deciding whether they think 817 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:14,759 Speaker 5: it was a fair election or not. 818 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,359 Speaker 3: They're supposed to just count the votes and certify it. 819 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,560 Speaker 5: There's a whole legal army ready to go on that 820 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 5: there's also worries that the craziest kinds of thing would 821 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,360 Speaker 5: be that somebody like Speaker Mike Johnson would say, oh, 822 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 5: we think there's real problems with the elections, so we're 823 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,839 Speaker 5: now going to seat these twenty people and we're going 824 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 5: to investigate the results there and say, hey, by the way, 825 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 5: what do you know that means I'm still speaker. That 826 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 5: would be unprecedented and outrageous and illegal. And the Democrats 827 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,800 Speaker 5: I know are getting ready to fight that should that occur. 828 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: But there are a lot of I just want you 829 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: to there are a lot of people gaming out of eventualities. 830 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: I think people need to hear this. There are a 831 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: lot of organizations and people in a nonpartisan way gaming 832 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: out ways to combat MAGA extremism. Say more about that. 833 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of what are called tabletop exercises 834 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,240 Speaker 5: where people really go through scenarios and almost play roles 835 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 5: and they you know, it's been publicly reported that this 836 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 5: includes top elected officials, county election officials, you know, attorneys 837 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 5: general and others. 838 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 3: And you know, I'll. 839 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 5: Tell you something that we're involved with, for example, is 840 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 5: a group called the Committee for Safe and Secure Elections. 841 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 5: It's created by us, by the conservative group R Street 842 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,879 Speaker 5: and others, and it's half election officials and half law 843 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,360 Speaker 5: enforcement because they really need the protection of law enforcement 844 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 5: from these violent threats. And they're doing dozens and dozens 845 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 5: of briefings and trainings of election administrators and state and 846 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 5: local government officials of how to protect the elections beat cups. 847 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,759 Speaker 5: Police officers will have pocket of how to protect elections 848 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,760 Speaker 5: at the polling places on election day in every state, 849 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 5: hundreds of thousands of copies. 850 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 3: And there's a new organization. 851 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:15,000 Speaker 5: Of the lawyers who represent county and state election offices 852 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,000 Speaker 5: because often these are they don't have full time legal departments, 853 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 5: because they're regular people doing their jobs. But the lawyers 854 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,839 Speaker 5: who represent them have now formed a group that we're 855 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 5: helping to organize and all these other there's just a 856 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,840 Speaker 5: large infrastructure being put in place because the federal government 857 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,720 Speaker 5: used to do a lot of this stuff and Trump 858 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 5: shut down the cybersecurity operations, shut down, basically purged the 859 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 5: election security operation last year, and so a lot of 860 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 5: the people who had worked on that kind of stuff 861 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:50,279 Speaker 5: before are continuing to work on it outside, continuing to 862 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,360 Speaker 5: help states, help counties. It shouldn't be necessary but that's 863 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:54,880 Speaker 5: the way it. 864 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,799 Speaker 1: Is where we are right now. So the cavalry is 865 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:03,360 Speaker 1: here and people should not worry. They're going out safe midterms. 866 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,320 Speaker 1: And yes they'll be Trump and Republicans will try to 867 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: do crazy stuff, but the good news is there are 868 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people gaming out scenarios. So our jobs 869 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,319 Speaker 1: as people who believe in democracy is to go out 870 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: there and vote and make sure that we have a 871 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: plan to vote and that we vote absolutely. 872 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 5: And I'll give you an example of the kind of 873 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 5: civic courage we need. One of the things they are 874 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,879 Speaker 5: doing is using the weaponized Justice Department now under Todd 875 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 5: Blanche Trump, who you know may as you know, a 876 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,240 Speaker 5: gaff is when a politician accidentally says the truth. 877 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:39,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, they're not supposed to. 878 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,760 Speaker 5: And if you remember Todd Blanche at his confirmation hearing, 879 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,920 Speaker 5: was asked by some unctuous Republican senator, what is your 880 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 5: relationship with President Trump? 881 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,920 Speaker 4: And said John Kennedy, Yeah. 882 00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,000 Speaker 3: Well I'm his lawyer. Oops, I mean that was his lawyer. 883 00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 5: But so now that's the Justice Department and they're doing 884 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:04,600 Speaker 5: outrageous things. The FBI launched a massive raid on the 885 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,360 Speaker 5: Ohio Organizing Collaborative This is the number one voter registration 886 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,800 Speaker 5: group in Ohio. We have worked with them a lot. 887 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 5: They're top notch. They register poor people, they do all 888 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,239 Speaker 5: kinds of other things. They're very well regarded. They had 889 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,160 Speaker 5: one hundred FBI agents seizing documents, seizing phones, going to 890 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 5: people's homes. 891 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,280 Speaker 3: Why did they do it. They did it to chill 892 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:24,759 Speaker 3: voter registration. 893 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 5: And the Ohio Organizing Collaborative said, you know what, we're 894 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 5: not basing a beat. We're going to keep doing what 895 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,279 Speaker 5: we do and that's the kind of thing we all 896 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 5: need to do, and we'll come out. 897 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,799 Speaker 1: Okay, Michael, thank you, thank you. 898 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,280 Speaker 3: Thank you. No moment. 899 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 2: Jesse Kanon by John fast So, the Justice Department has 900 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,360 Speaker 2: asked the court to reinstate criminal charges against Kilmar Abrego 901 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,800 Speaker 2: Garcia because one of our top priorities is to waste 902 00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 2: our tax dollars on making this man's life this reple. 903 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So a few things here. One, this is 904 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,800 Speaker 1: not this. These guys fucking suck. I mean, they just suck. 905 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:15,800 Speaker 1: They are using the Justice Department to basically do whatever 906 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:21,759 Speaker 1: Trump feels like, just vibes based prosecution of Americans, and 907 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,279 Speaker 1: it sucks. By the end. This guy has been through 908 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: so much. Remember he was a Salvadorian man. He was 909 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,120 Speaker 1: deported by the Trump administration. He was put in the 910 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:39,399 Speaker 1: scariest prison, the prison so scary that Christy Nome went 911 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:44,759 Speaker 1: there with a giant eighty thousand dollars watch to do 912 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,840 Speaker 1: an advertisement. You'll remember that. But no, a really scary 913 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,280 Speaker 1: prison where people get brutalized and god knows what happens there. 914 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,480 Speaker 1: And then it was he was not meant to be there. 915 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,239 Speaker 1: He then was brought back. I mean, this guy, it's 916 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: just been through it. And the point of the story 917 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:08,319 Speaker 1: here is that not only is this fucking sketchy and 918 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: just sleazy and shitty and not how it's supposed to go, 919 00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,560 Speaker 1: but another part of it is just wildly expensive. Like 920 00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,600 Speaker 1: we were talking about the debt, like this will cost 921 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,560 Speaker 1: millions of dollars again, right, because these trials are really expensive, 922 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,400 Speaker 1: and so the Trump administration is just wasting our money 923 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:34,440 Speaker 1: on cruelty, right, Like all this stuff is expensive, from 924 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:40,520 Speaker 1: the you know, the the deportation squads, to the concentration 925 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:45,480 Speaker 1: camps this administration is doing, you know, to the remember 926 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:50,200 Speaker 1: the buildings they they bought all those warehouses. I mean, 927 00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: these fucking guys are wasting our money doing terrible things, 928 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: and it definitely deserves to be our moment of fuck. 929 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:03,239 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 930 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:09,000 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best 931 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,399 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 932 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 933 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,120 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.