Speaker 1: Trans lesbian center porn is my new kink. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: not this one that's pregnant. I want to set the
Speaker 1: scene for all of you virgins listening at home. Right now,
Speaker 1: Frand and I are in a wintry wonderland. We are
Speaker 1: both wearing huge fur coast huge, and just off in
Speaker 1: the distance is a fawn um, a shirtless fawn, a
Speaker 1: shirtless twink fawn. Well, I would say, o toddter right, Harry, Well,
Speaker 1: go off of the distances a fond and then also
Speaker 1: off in another distance as a talking beaver. Wait another
Speaker 1: getting closer together. Wait now the beaver is sucking the fond.
Speaker 1: Put down this live fan fiction you're writing. I was
Speaker 1: this was against my son. I did not know. This
Speaker 1: is where you were going. Well, where I'm going is
Speaker 1: to the magical land of Narnia. Because today we're talking
Speaker 1: all about the lion, the witch, the wardrobe, the twink,
Speaker 1: the otter, the twunk, the daddy, the bear, the fisting top,
Speaker 1: the fisting bottom, the piss, the piss queen, the pillow princess,
Speaker 1: and the wardrobe. Because this is like a virgin the
Speaker 1: show we give yesterday's pop culture, today's takes. I'm Rasdami
Speaker 1: and I'm fran Toronto. God, how did we get here?
Speaker 1: Happy Thanksgiving Virgins. We hope that you are surrounded by
Speaker 1: your family, whether they be biological or chosen. Yes, we
Speaker 1: hope that you are celebrating anti imperialism and that you
Speaker 1: understand that this is a wretched little holiday that has
Speaker 1: great food but otherwise is founded in a history of
Speaker 1: you know, colonialist violence. Do you know what? I am
Speaker 1: disciplined in those that. Like this year, I'm going to
Speaker 1: my family in Connecticut and I just go out for
Speaker 1: the day, but everyone else there, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: stays throughout the weekend because they live there. I don't
Speaker 1: usually get sent home with leftovers, And to me, that
Speaker 1: is one of the best parts of Thanksgiving is eating
Speaker 1: the leftovers for a couple of days and you know,
Speaker 1: doing like a sandwich with turkey and stuffing and cranberry
Speaker 1: sauce on it. So I'm like, where can I get
Speaker 1: one of those? Because I'm I'm not I will not
Speaker 1: be fulfilled with just having it one day. No, my
Speaker 1: favorite tradition is to make like a giant sandwich like
Speaker 1: the next day with like normal sandwich bread, but like
Speaker 1: you know, roasted turkey, cranberry sauce, cheddar cheese, like all
Speaker 1: of the things that like you want to put on
Speaker 1: a Thanksgiving meals so good. Wait, speaking of leftovers, how
Speaker 1: did you buy Chency Triangle of Sadness. I don't think
Speaker 1: you saw. I still have not seen it. I at
Speaker 1: this point probably won't see it in theaters, but we'll
Speaker 1: catch it on digital at some point. Okay, I don't
Speaker 1: want to talk about it, but I just want to
Speaker 1: quickly like just you know, assign you homework and maybe
Speaker 1: the Virgin's homework to watch it when you can, because
Speaker 1: when I saw the trailer, I was like, that seems
Speaker 1: kind of like two on the nose. The trailer makes
Speaker 1: it feel really cheap, right, It's like, this is the
Speaker 1: movie that eviscerated the upper class, amazing critique and capitalism,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't really want to watch that,
Speaker 1: And then I actually went to go see it, and
Speaker 1: it's like one of the most amazing things I've seen
Speaker 1: on screen in a very long time. Glad to hear
Speaker 1: that it was good. It needed an editor. Let's be clear,
Speaker 1: it is in suffering, we do, but but it was
Speaker 1: so and rose I'm not gonna spot anything. There's just
Speaker 1: something that happens in the midpoint that is so shocking,
Speaker 1: and it's something that you never forget, Like it's just
Speaker 1: it's something that happens in a movie where you're like,
Speaker 1: I will never forget this. Um. Anyways, that's all I'll say,
Speaker 1: so that we can actually discuss it, you know, whenever
Speaker 1: we end up watching it. Um, what have you been
Speaker 1: watching this this this past week? Um? You know, I'm
Speaker 1: neck deep in my annual Gilmore Girls re watch. You know,
Speaker 1: I have been in the middle of moving, so I
Speaker 1: really don't kind of have any patience for anything more
Speaker 1: than that. It's just been a lot of Gilmore Girls
Speaker 1: on in the background while I unpacked boxes watching too
Speaker 1: maybe I'll need to hop on and and and you
Speaker 1: should fire for the first time into it. But I
Speaker 1: did go to the movies last week and saw Wakonda Forever,
Speaker 1: and so did I and I had so much fun
Speaker 1: at it. I think the impression that I was left
Speaker 1: with most was that, oh my god, everyone that movie
Speaker 1: is really hot. So fine, fine, nay More is the
Speaker 1: mod or he's the dick. Everyone should suck everyone should eat.
Speaker 1: I literally, like, it doesn't matter how many memes I
Speaker 1: saw about him before seeing this movie. Nothing, nothing, could
Speaker 1: have prepared for me for what I felt in my
Speaker 1: body when nayme Or ascended from the sea, his his
Speaker 1: his winged little mercurial Herme's wing ass feet, fucking gay
Speaker 1: ass mermaid god little Speedo and his like indigenous Mayan
Speaker 1: ass ancestry and his accent and his thick little body.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I was alone in the theater, clutching
Speaker 1: my face and physically breathless. That's not an exaggeration. I
Speaker 1: was physically out of breath. What are the things that
Speaker 1: stuck out from you from the movie, like fave parts
Speaker 1: or things you didn't like maybe or I really like
Speaker 1: Dreary Williams. I thought she was a welcome edition, and
Speaker 1: I thought it made sense to bring her in because
Speaker 1: with Chadwick Boseman gone to the movie, you know, Leticia
Speaker 1: Right had to step into the lead role and couldn't
Speaker 1: be like the like smart wise cracking sidekick anymore. And
Speaker 1: re redefinitely filled that position while also being a very
Speaker 1: compelling character with her own story and she has she
Speaker 1: has a TV series coming, so we'll get to see
Speaker 1: more of her. And I really liked the dynamic between
Speaker 1: her and Sherry, which was like they definitely were into
Speaker 1: each other. There was a vibe. Angela Bassett really chewed
Speaker 1: every scene she was in. You know, that one scene
Speaker 1: where she is yelling at a koy a, you know,
Speaker 1: about how she's lost everyone in her life was devastating,
Speaker 1: and you know, she gave an incredible performance that I
Speaker 1: thought Letitia Right did too. I thought, you know, this
Speaker 1: movie had this tremendous weight placed on it of having
Speaker 1: to not only honor Chadwick Boseman's legacy, but like deal
Speaker 1: with it in a way that was narratively fulfilling, and
Speaker 1: so much of that was put on the shoulders of
Speaker 1: those two actresses specifically, and I thought they really you know,
Speaker 1: rose to the occasion. I mean, I agree. I thought that, like,
Speaker 1: given the circumstances, like everyone in the film really carried
Speaker 1: the responsibility of something that is kind of impossible to
Speaker 1: do from a media perspective, which is translate real life
Speaker 1: grief to franchise grief. Like that sucks. I feel bad
Speaker 1: for everyone involved, like they had to literally like three
Speaker 1: months later like hop into this and like play grief
Speaker 1: on screen, and like part of me, like I do
Speaker 1: love that that this film was about grief, and I
Speaker 1: felt like it was a resonant meditation on grief. But
Speaker 1: I also do wish that they could have just waited
Speaker 1: and and given it some space, so that like everyone
Speaker 1: involved could have, like I don't know, had more time
Speaker 1: with it, because, like I thought the burial scene was gorgeous,
Speaker 1: I did not need to see Chadwick Boseman's grave ascend
Speaker 1: into like a spaceship like that. At the end, I
Speaker 1: was like, I feel crazy watching that because it's so
Speaker 1: emotionally dissonant from what myself and probably every actor there
Speaker 1: is feeling. One of the things I really liked was
Speaker 1: the way that they brought Michael B. Jordan's back is
Speaker 1: kill Monger, because he was such a great villain in
Speaker 1: Black Panther that just watching that made me remember what
Speaker 1: an enigmatic and like compelling presence he was in that movie.
Speaker 1: But also it worked really well for the story they
Speaker 1: were trying to tell that Sherry was like channeling her
Speaker 1: grief through anger, and so of course that is the
Speaker 1: person that she would see in that moment um. So
Speaker 1: I thought that was just like one of one of
Speaker 1: those instances where you know the constraints of the movie
Speaker 1: they had to make really worked with the movie that
Speaker 1: they also wanted to make. And a place where maybe
Speaker 1: that was not so successful was the reintroduction of Lupete
Speaker 1: Nyongo because like, I mean, I she was. I was
Speaker 1: so happy to have her back. But it's like so
Speaker 1: funny that it's just like, oh, Lupeta, where have you
Speaker 1: been in Haiti? And it's like like we all know
Speaker 1: that she like didn't do the Avengers movie because she
Speaker 1: wanted to be in an off Broadway play and like
Speaker 1: hates this Avenger ship. And like Lupeta, who's like one
Speaker 1: of the greatest actors of like our generation, like she's
Speaker 1: phoning it in, like she doesn't give a ship about
Speaker 1: this movie. She's I don't know, but I still think
Speaker 1: she's You don't really see that in her performance. I
Speaker 1: think she's very committed. Maybe I'm projecting. I felt like
Speaker 1: I think you, I think you're projecting what you what
Speaker 1: you see in the real maybe because I thought she
Speaker 1: was really dialed in, like that that scene that she
Speaker 1: has with a Koa where she's talking about why she
Speaker 1: wasn't at the funeral. Like mean, she's an incredible actress
Speaker 1: and she has to do so little to Fay so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true, and and and she and she can do
Speaker 1: a lot with a little as can like a lot
Speaker 1: of prestige actors, and like these franchises, Um, it is
Speaker 1: kind of wild though that spoiler alert, like in the
Speaker 1: post credit scene, like she's like, yeah, and Chadwick knocked
Speaker 1: me up and left me on this island and like
Speaker 1: here's my son. I was like, what the fuck? Like
Speaker 1: another yell. That also reminded me just how long it's
Speaker 1: been since the first Black Panther came out in eighteen
Speaker 1: and I don't know when what kinda forever was originally
Speaker 1: supposed to be rolled out, like because what kind of forever?
Speaker 1: Is the official end of phase four? Like this is
Speaker 1: now the end of sort of the post end game fall,
Speaker 1: and now now we're in phase five as you can
Speaker 1: see with them laying things in the ground, like the
Speaker 1: Julia Louis Driver's character, who that might have been My
Speaker 1: only like real complaint with this movie is I just
Speaker 1: every part with her and Martin Freeman. As much as
Speaker 1: I like Martin Freeman and as much as I love
Speaker 1: Julie Louis Dreyfus, really took me out of the movie
Speaker 1: and like, I mean, she's she's so funny, but she
Speaker 1: felt so out of place and even like the streak
Speaker 1: of gray in her hair, which I'm sure is like
Speaker 1: what she looks like in the comic books, and it's
Speaker 1: some sort of like nod to that stylistically, it just
Speaker 1: looked world work with her. No. Also, this movie was
Speaker 1: very badly lit and was so dark, especially the underwater
Speaker 1: scenes so dark. I just like, maybe they're going for
Speaker 1: some kind of realism, but this is comic book movie, babe,
Speaker 1: turn the lights. Yeah, realism, honey, Like, uh, these are mermaids. Um,
Speaker 1: you know what are mermaids? Let let it be said. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally agree. I mean, like I'm never unhappy to
Speaker 1: watch Julia Louis Drifus on screen. But yeah, when Marvel
Speaker 1: is Marveling, like just for the sake of like reading
Speaker 1: all of these movies together, it's like, those are things
Speaker 1: that we would cut out of if this was not
Speaker 1: a Marvel movie, it was any other movie, like these
Speaker 1: would be chop chop chop. I just wanted her to say,
Speaker 1: it's me, um wait, I have a I have another
Speaker 1: spoilery question for you. Spoiler spoiler, Did Angela Bassa have
Speaker 1: to die. I do think, so you do. I do
Speaker 1: think she had to die. But I didn't like was
Speaker 1: that her death was given kind of the same weight
Speaker 1: as Naymours, like random minion being killed, like there's things
Speaker 1: are not my sister or something. It was it was
Speaker 1: one of his relatives, but like he's a fish, so
Speaker 1: he has like seven sisters, you know what I mean? Like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: this is like only kind of tangentially related to Black Panther.
Speaker 1: But I did come up with a sort of wild
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory. Okay. So I saw this movie with a
Speaker 1: friend of the podcast him Mitchell, and we were talking
Speaker 1: about how a year or two ago, there was so
Speaker 1: much conversation about Letitia Right being an anti vaxer and
Speaker 1: it was so loud, but it really kind of disappeared,
Speaker 1: especially in the lead up to this film. I feel
Speaker 1: like I did not see a lot of big stories
Speaker 1: about it. I know that very recently she has kind
Speaker 1: of come out and like disavowed it and also disavowed
Speaker 1: a priest she was connected with who has a lot
Speaker 1: of homophobic and transphobic views. Anyway, I'm just was so
Speaker 1: shocked that there wasn't a bigger like fur around, especially
Speaker 1: the anti Baxtor of it all, and I was also
Speaker 1: thinking about how that wasn't really a big part of
Speaker 1: the conversation when Death on the Nile came out at
Speaker 1: the beginning of this year, which she was also in,
Speaker 1: and then I started thinking, you know, Disney is really
Speaker 1: evil and they knew that Sherry you know, was going
Speaker 1: to be the lead in this movie and that they
Speaker 1: had to you know, sort of protect their investment. And
Speaker 1: my conspiracy is that Disney is behind the outing of
Speaker 1: Armie Hammer as a cannibal as a way to draw
Speaker 1: fire from Letitia during the Death on the Nile pressed
Speaker 1: or to sort of set the stage for her to
Speaker 1: be able to get through that without any like journalists
Speaker 1: asking her questions during interviews, because all the heat was
Speaker 1: on Army, so that by the time Black Panther came out,
Speaker 1: we had already kind of moved on from it. That's
Speaker 1: my like Galaxy brain but also brain worms conspiracy theory.
Speaker 1: The versions can see it with my jaw is dropped. Um,
Speaker 1: you need to put that on TikTok immediately. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's that's crazy. There's it's very it's very like there's
Speaker 1: no actual real logic involved in it. Um. But at
Speaker 1: least what I think is some publicist at least brought
Speaker 1: it up as an option at some point. Oh for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean the Devil works hard, but Marvel pr works hard,
Speaker 1: Disney pr because that's what I'll back to the House
Speaker 1: of Mouse, Yes house, not the House of Mouse. Um.
Speaker 1: I was going to remark on and often heard complaint
Speaker 1: on this podcast. Can we talk about the blink and
Speaker 1: you missed it? Gay kiss in this movie that I
Speaker 1: I didn't even see. Oh I saw it. It was,
Speaker 1: but it was it was just like a head kiss.
Speaker 1: I had a forehead kiss. I'm so really kiss in foreheads.
Speaker 1: And also like for this movie, what a waste of MICHAELA. Cole,
Speaker 1: Like we could have had michaela scenes instead of like
Speaker 1: these Martin Freedman scenes, and like I was just like,
Speaker 1: where was mickay La? Yeah? But I you know, I
Speaker 1: do think at least there was enough of the things
Speaker 1: that I liked in the movie to make up for
Speaker 1: they're not being enough of the things that I wanted
Speaker 1: more of. I'm excited for what's next, though, I do.
Speaker 1: I will say I did not think that Angela Bassa
Speaker 1: needed to die. That was my primary complaint. And and
Speaker 1: that's just because selfishly I want to see her in
Speaker 1: every movie. And but she got so much to do
Speaker 1: before she died. Like I was so happy that we
Speaker 1: had so much time for her in this film. She
Speaker 1: got some action scenes, she got a lot of great
Speaker 1: you know monologue, and people are like, she's going to
Speaker 1: get an Oscar nomination, which is like a girl, that's
Speaker 1: not happening. But I mean, but not to be a
Speaker 1: bitch though, but like, there are so many other characters
Speaker 1: to kill that Angela Bassett, but they wouldn't. But it
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been narratively satisfying. You have to think about
Speaker 1: the story you're telling. I disagree. I think like a Koya,
Speaker 1: if they had killed a Koya. There there are a
Speaker 1: few people where I was like, no, no, no, Sherry
Speaker 1: had to be at her lowest. She had to be
Speaker 1: a fat, nasty and broke. She had to come on
Speaker 1: this bitch matt as hell. I loved the lesson at
Speaker 1: the end. I wish that we could have seen Shary
Speaker 1: be a little evil like obviously she was really dark
Speaker 1: the whole film. I wanted her to make a crucially
Speaker 1: dark mistake in killing someone. I guess like, wasn't it
Speaker 1: more as like little, wasn't it more kind of her fault?
Speaker 1: But it was more mine, It was more Lupida's fault
Speaker 1: because she needed to rescue Sherry. I would have liked
Speaker 1: to see just more of Sharry as the black Panther
Speaker 1: because it's like she she was doing lines of the
Speaker 1: heart shaped a herb or you know whatever the fuck.
Speaker 1: Um she micro dosed and then she like immediately not
Speaker 1: only has the powers but kind of the skill to
Speaker 1: use them. And like, I get that this movie couldn't
Speaker 1: be another origin story, but I just would have liked
Speaker 1: more time with her being superpowered and not kind of
Speaker 1: all of her like stepping into that mantle happening very
Speaker 1: quickly or kind of off screen. But the fight sequences
Speaker 1: and like action were fun and like didn't get in
Speaker 1: the way of still telling a very emotional story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally agree, speaking of emotional stories. Did you try
Speaker 1: to get Taylor Swift tickets this weekend? Um? I did
Speaker 1: not try to get Taylor Swift tickets because I just well,
Speaker 1: you know, like I don't super care about seeing live music,
Speaker 1: and I also just like didn't want to deal with
Speaker 1: what I knew was going to be the nightmare of um,
Speaker 1: you know, getting tickets for that show. Never could I
Speaker 1: even have imagined the true nightmare would become though, Oh
Speaker 1: my god. I mean the versions can read up on
Speaker 1: like all the drama that went down about how like
Speaker 1: people basically like couldn't get tickets and ticket Master had
Speaker 1: to cancel its actual on sale date because of lack
Speaker 1: of quantity. But like I I wanted to bring it
Speaker 1: up because we have a lot of swift ease on
Speaker 1: the pot on like on the pod who are listening,
Speaker 1: and I feel like pressure needs to be applied because
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift statement on this was so nothing, It was
Speaker 1: so absolutely nothing. She put all the blame on ticket
Speaker 1: Master and was like, yes, oh my god, it sucks
Speaker 1: that you couldn't get tickets for the concert. Yeah, and like,
Speaker 1: obviously she can do her part in like ad shows,
Speaker 1: but like it's not even like it's not even like
Speaker 1: I want her to take blame. It's that she is
Speaker 1: the most powerful artist on the planet to some degree.
Speaker 1: When Taylor Swift expressed her very first political opinion about
Speaker 1: that fucking you know governor in Tennessee or I don't
Speaker 1: even remember whatever, the fucktive. Yeah, representative, thank you. More
Speaker 1: people registered to vote in a single day than in
Speaker 1: any other day in the history of this country. Like
Speaker 1: that is obscene. She can move bodies to create actual,
Speaker 1: tangible change in a way that could fundamentally change things
Speaker 1: for all of these other artists in the industry. And
Speaker 1: it makes me angry that her kind of very tepid
Speaker 1: response to Ticketmaster was ultimately a display of her allegiance
Speaker 1: to capital and her relationship with Ticketmaster. If she was
Speaker 1: on her ship, she would say, Hey, this is fucked
Speaker 1: Ticketmaster and Live n should never should have merged. This
Speaker 1: is an illegal monopoly that has now created problems for artists,
Speaker 1: independent artists across the board, and now my fans. So
Speaker 1: this is personal to me. Break Ticketmaster up and change
Speaker 1: this fucking ship like Taylor is. If any artist could
Speaker 1: do that and actually have an impact, it would be Taylor. Well,
Speaker 1: now the Justice Department is investigating Ticketmaster, and yes, of
Speaker 1: course we wish that Taylor would have gotten involved herself,
Speaker 1: but like I just I'm not going to expect that
Speaker 1: of celebrities who want to make as much money as possible,
Speaker 1: and like there are no perfect celebrities like I certainly
Speaker 1: don't think Taylor is a perfect celebrity, and nor do
Speaker 1: I expect her to be one. I kind of like
Speaker 1: like her music and keep it pushing from there. But
Speaker 1: Swifties are powerful and because of them, this this could change.
Speaker 1: And I saw something that was like, Swifties, can you
Speaker 1: tackle racism and abortion next? No, Actually, swift these are
Speaker 1: smart and are great organizers, and like, come on, let's
Speaker 1: fucking change something. Um. I heard that you finally uh
Speaker 1: dove into miss Emelda Stanton. Yeah. I started season five
Speaker 1: of The Crown. Um, I'm only an episode in, um,
Speaker 1: but I am seeing kind of right off the bat
Speaker 1: a lot of what I've seen people talking about about
Speaker 1: how it's gotten very soapy in a way that it
Speaker 1: never was before. Um. But I have to say, Eliza,
Speaker 1: I do want Elizabeth Debecky to step on me. Me.
Speaker 1: Stans is incredible as always. I was so happy to
Speaker 1: see what's her face? Mrs Harris goes to Paris as
Speaker 1: Princess Margaret. That's Mrs Harris goes to Paris. What's what's
Speaker 1: her name? Oh Leslie Manfelt as Princess Margaret? Who I
Speaker 1: just you know, I loved that the season started with
Speaker 1: you know, Clara Fhoy coming back to do to do
Speaker 1: young Queen Elizabeth as she always does. But it just
Speaker 1: made me remember how incredible those first seasons of The
Speaker 1: Crown War and listen, I love The Crown. I will
Speaker 1: keep watching it until it ends. But those first seasons,
Speaker 1: you know, Claire Foy put her whole pussy into that role.
Speaker 1: Vanessa Vanessa Kirby as Princess Margaret was so incredible. I
Speaker 1: love Vanessa Kirby. I wish she wasn't just relegated to
Speaker 1: like those weird like Fast and the Furious spin off movies,
Speaker 1: although I am always happy to see her in the
Speaker 1: Mission Possible movies. She I didn't even know she was
Speaker 1: in either of those, but I didn't really know who
Speaker 1: she was, but like, she's so good in the series. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's that's my I mean, of course I also love
Speaker 1: Helena Bottom carter Um, but that's my Princess Margaret Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm enjoying it. And it just I
Speaker 1: like held off on it for so long because I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm not in the right headspace, Like
Speaker 1: it's so serious, it's so dramatic. And then as soon
Speaker 1: as they started watching I was like, I want to
Speaker 1: sit here for the next ten hours and and just
Speaker 1: watch this show. Yeah, I'm do wish like it's this
Speaker 1: This season in particular is like not as like fun
Speaker 1: like for lack of a better word, right now, um
Speaker 1: as like previous seasons like there's less like kind of
Speaker 1: sometimes like I enjoy the hijinks of the royal family
Speaker 1: and this one deals with a lot of like heavy
Speaker 1: subject matter. But yeah, I mean, Elizabeth Debecci is like
Speaker 1: eyeliner alone, like they knew what they were doing with
Speaker 1: the eyeliner, Like come on, I'm also so happy that
Speaker 1: they I mean, Netflix even tweeted something about this, that
Speaker 1: the Crown let Elizabeth Debeccy be tall, and I do appreciate.
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that they don't have everyone around her
Speaker 1: like standing on you know, like blocks and like with
Speaker 1: lifts in their shoes, and that she just is taller
Speaker 1: than everyone. If if they had c G, i'd everyone
Speaker 1: taller like like Tom like no, like Gandalf in the
Speaker 1: Hobbits like style, Oh my Godbeth Debecci should play what
Speaker 1: if they what if they actually like reconstructed the entirety
Speaker 1: of the Crown set to appear physically bigger, so that
Speaker 1: I love that. Elizabeth Debecci should be in season two
Speaker 1: Rings of Power. Um, if that happens, don't even with
Speaker 1: me that Like literally, anyone like that I recognize in
Speaker 1: Rings of Power would be great. But Elizabeth Debecci and
Speaker 1: Rings of Power, Damn, Elizabeth Debeccy should be in the
Speaker 1: House of the Dragon. She should be a targe Arian. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's actually much more worthy for for for her. Tom.
Speaker 1: I still have not finished Drings of Power. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I ever will. Uh, you know what, actually like,
Speaker 1: holidays are perfect time to finish it. Holidays off holidays
Speaker 1: are when I'm going to do my annual Lord of
Speaker 1: rewatch and kind of and honestly kind of the last
Speaker 1: thing I'm gonna want to do after that is watching
Speaker 1: Watchings of Power. That's kind of that's kind of tea.
Speaker 1: You could like put it on background while you're, you know,
Speaker 1: making a pie or something. I don't make pies. I
Speaker 1: hate that, I was so The Chronicles of Narnia is
Speaker 1: a fantasy series written by C. S. Lewis. Heard of it?
Speaker 1: Heard of it? Yes? It was one of the few
Speaker 1: things I was allowed to consume growing up because it's
Speaker 1: super Christian, Because it's extremely extremely Christian, I would I
Speaker 1: would wager to say that it is uncreatively Christian. Like C. S.
Speaker 1: Lewis was lifting plot points from the Bible and just
Speaker 1: putting them on the page. He plagiarized the God, God,
Speaker 1: God herself. Yes, I also read the books as a kid.
Speaker 1: I think though, that my intro to the world of
Speaker 1: Narnia was specifically the nine animated movie as well. I
Speaker 1: think I've talked about this before that when I was
Speaker 1: a kid growing up, my dad was a librarian at
Speaker 1: a middle school, and I definitely remember him bringing home
Speaker 1: the vhs of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe,
Speaker 1: the animated movie, so I could watch it, and I
Speaker 1: think I like stole it. So he never brought it back.
Speaker 1: Love you never got fined. No, he was the librarian.
Speaker 1: What was it gonna do? Wow, I got away with it. Um.
Speaker 1: That movie is stunning, so beautiful. The White Witch in
Speaker 1: that movie is so fierce, the diva doll herself, God her.
Speaker 1: She has like this beautiful fur coat and like a
Speaker 1: skull cap kind of ye with a crown on top
Speaker 1: up of the skull cap. Yes, iconic, It's a huge knife, yeah,
Speaker 1: and very like grinch like, fluctuant facial expressions like sometimes
Speaker 1: she's soft and supple and queen, like another time she
Speaker 1: looks like a demon. Well, I think also part of
Speaker 1: that is that the animation is not great. Well, it's
Speaker 1: not great because it's from but it's actually really beautiful
Speaker 1: and how old it is I feel, and there was
Speaker 1: some very good animation made long before. Have you ever
Speaker 1: heard of Walt Disney Studios. No, I'm realizing that you're
Speaker 1: talking about the kind of frames, the pick images per frame.
Speaker 1: It's choppy, yes, it's choppy, yes, but it's beautiful. It
Speaker 1: is beautiful, and I love that version of it. And
Speaker 1: so from there I went and read the book series, um,
Speaker 1: the Chronicles of Narnia. So for for virgins out there,
Speaker 1: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is technically the
Speaker 1: second book in the series, The Chronicles of Narnia, the
Speaker 1: only book most people recognize, but it was the It
Speaker 1: was the first one that was released, and that in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty by C. S. Lewis, and then he went
Speaker 1: back and wrote the first book, The Magician's Nephew, and
Speaker 1: then all of the sequels that come after the Lion,
Speaker 1: the Witch and the Wardrobe. Did you are seven books
Speaker 1: in total? Yeah? Um, have you read all of them? No?
Speaker 1: I have read I think three of them and retained
Speaker 1: none of them. I feel like I definitely I might
Speaker 1: have reread Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe because um,
Speaker 1: as a kid, we used to listen to the audio
Speaker 1: book and stuff like audio books of them are so good.
Speaker 1: But like we because my family like this is the
Speaker 1: this is the kind of fantasy and our mainstream culture
Speaker 1: that we could like indulge in because it was so
Speaker 1: Christian like so so Christians, which I did not get
Speaker 1: at first. I thought it was just fantastical. And that's
Speaker 1: why it's a great gateway drug to Christianity. I suppose it. Really,
Speaker 1: it really is. And I let me tell you had
Speaker 1: the reverse experience of course, like for me Narnia rather Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually Narnia and Christianity were inextricable. There was no way
Speaker 1: I could consume Lyne, the Witch and the Wardrobe without
Speaker 1: thinking about God. Wow. I didn't get any of the
Speaker 1: Jesus stuff, even though it's so obvious. So when you
Speaker 1: go back and look at it all, I mean, you know, um,
Speaker 1: so my so I did read all the books at
Speaker 1: one point. The only ones that have really stuck with
Speaker 1: me are obviously in the line The Witch and the Wardrobe,
Speaker 1: because it is the best. I also love The Magician's
Speaker 1: Nephew because it gives you the origin story of both
Speaker 1: Narnia and of the White Witch Jadis. Do you remember
Speaker 1: any of it like I? I unfortunately don't remember the
Speaker 1: so so the plot of The Magician's Nephew is, there's
Speaker 1: this boy whose uncle is a magician. It is called
Speaker 1: the Magician's Nephew, and with he, he and his friend Poppy,
Speaker 1: I believe, find their way into this place called the
Speaker 1: Wood between the Worlds, which is the way you get
Speaker 1: into all these different universes, and they find their way
Speaker 1: into this world called charn which is the homeworld of Jadis,
Speaker 1: who becomes the White Witch. And the story with her
Speaker 1: is that she and her sister were in this like
Speaker 1: fierce battle for the crown um but they they said
Speaker 1: they were not going to use magic to get the crown,
Speaker 1: but then a Jadis's sister did, and they were like
Speaker 1: they were kind of like about to destroy each other.
Speaker 1: And Jadis had this um like little secret gag up
Speaker 1: sleeve which was called the deplorable word, and what the
Speaker 1: deplorable word would do already sounds christian would destroy everyone
Speaker 1: in the entire world except her. Oh my god, And
Speaker 1: so at the last moment she used it, everyone in
Speaker 1: the world is storied, so by default she becomes queen.
Speaker 1: But she's like queen of nothing. So what she decides
Speaker 1: to do is use magic to preserve herself until someone
Speaker 1: comes along and rings a bell and unleashes her. And
Speaker 1: so obviously the first thing these kids do when they
Speaker 1: go to her world is ring a bell and she
Speaker 1: comes back to life, and then she kind of um
Speaker 1: hitches a ride with them back to the Wood between
Speaker 1: the Worlds where like her powers don't really work there
Speaker 1: and she gets kind of sick, and then they take
Speaker 1: her to Earth. She kind of tries to take over Earth,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't really work out, and then finally they're
Speaker 1: able to get her back into the Wood between the Worlds.
Speaker 1: Before that, she like breaks off a lamp post in London,
Speaker 1: and then she takes that lamp post. They all make
Speaker 1: their way into Narnia as Narnia is being created by
Speaker 1: as Land, and the Itch tries to throw the lamppost
Speaker 1: at as Land and it plants on the ground and
Speaker 1: grows into the lamppost from the lion the witch on
Speaker 1: the wardrobe. Oh my god, I mean he that that's
Speaker 1: such a gag. Now that that makes me actually want
Speaker 1: to revisit the first one. It's so good and and
Speaker 1: that's you know, so that that quote that that is
Speaker 1: a meme like, do not cite the deep magic to me,
Speaker 1: which I was there when it was written, is referencing
Speaker 1: the fact that both the White Witch and as Len
Speaker 1: were there when Narnia was created, and so that's why
Speaker 1: they both know like the rules of the universe. And
Speaker 1: also that's where you see even more of the Bible,
Speaker 1: the biblical stuff coming in, because Jadis eats an apple
Speaker 1: from a tree that gives her everlasting life. Of course,
Speaker 1: of course she tries to talk the titular magician's nephew
Speaker 1: into eating the apple, but he doesn't do it, and
Speaker 1: that the magician's nephew is the boy who grows up
Speaker 1: to be the old man who owns the house with
Speaker 1: the wardrobe in it. Uh. Oh, now I understand. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm actually so delighted that you summarize that for me,
Speaker 1: because I truly retained nothing and I'm such a nerd.
Speaker 1: You really are, I'm not going to lie. But it's
Speaker 1: also impressive that you're able to retain so much about
Speaker 1: like huge world they're written eons ago, but nothing about
Speaker 1: like what we recorded one hour ago. Well one thing
Speaker 1: is important in one thing. Um. I a lot that
Speaker 1: was in conversation around C. S. Lewis um when we
Speaker 1: were reading the books as kids are, like when I
Speaker 1: was consuming the ship was like the relationship between him
Speaker 1: and Tolkien, which I feel like we talked about it.
Speaker 1: Do you think they were a second No, I think
Speaker 1: well they were, obviously because I'm going to go on
Speaker 1: if there's any fiction about that. Obviously because this is
Speaker 1: like a virgin. Of course we think that they're sucking
Speaker 1: and fucking. But if in my heart of hearts to
Speaker 1: actually think they were so so repressed, and I feel
Speaker 1: like the vibe between them. I've read a lot about
Speaker 1: their relationship, and the vibe kind of was like C. S.
Speaker 1: Lewis like takes a lot of credit for helping like
Speaker 1: be the what they called the midwife for Tolkien's worlds.
Speaker 1: Like they say that like Tolkien never would have finished
Speaker 1: his work if like C. S. Lewis didn't bring him
Speaker 1: home or like encourage him all along the way. But
Speaker 1: I was also like, girl, your work suffered because of it,
Speaker 1: because like no offense, like love Chronics Narnia, but like
Speaker 1: the Chronicles of Narnia compared to Tolkien rose like nothing
Speaker 1: like C. S. Lewis is out here being like this
Speaker 1: line talks and like this line is also Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: You get it. And Tolkien is like, how many languages
Speaker 1: have you written? But but one is for children and
Speaker 1: one is not. Okay, I mean there's violence in these
Speaker 1: books too. It's like some of the you know, it's
Speaker 1: not a children no, but these but they are children's stories.
Speaker 1: And although you know, Tolkien also wrote The Hobbit as
Speaker 1: a book for children, but then as his children grew up,
Speaker 1: you know, he wanted to advance the idea of the
Speaker 1: quote unquote fairy story into something that could be consumed
Speaker 1: by adults, because that wasn't really something that existed at
Speaker 1: that time. Um. You know, they they are so obviously contemporaries,
Speaker 1: and you know their works. I think when we think
Speaker 1: about the legacy of fantasy are the ones that are
Speaker 1: the most in conversation with each other. And they were
Speaker 1: literally and they definitely sucked each other off. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean they were working on these like literal fan fictions,
Speaker 1: like working on their own little fan fictions, like in
Speaker 1: like a fucking gay bar together. I mean it wasn't
Speaker 1: a gay bar, but it was called the Eagle in
Speaker 1: the Child, which is a ry like it's gay. I
Speaker 1: didn't get too deep into this, but apparently they had
Speaker 1: a falling out. They were because they broke up. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think they had. You heard it here first j R. O.
Speaker 1: Tolkien and C. S. Lewis, We're boyfriends, how to break up?
Speaker 1: And the rest is her story. But according to Tolkiene,
Speaker 1: like their relationship only lasted I think like twelve years
Speaker 1: or so, and then after that they had a very
Speaker 1: fierce like falling out. I think because C. S. Lewis
Speaker 1: apparently took a job at Okay, wait wait, took a lover. Yes,
Speaker 1: Lewis left Oxford and took a job as the chair
Speaker 1: of Medieval and Renaissance Literature nerd at Cambridge. And I
Speaker 1: think that they personally said they had fundamental like differing
Speaker 1: beliefs about like what should be taught in the cannon.
Speaker 1: And I believe Louis was the one that's like we
Speaker 1: should be teaching things that are like a little more
Speaker 1: not contemporary, because they didn't. Neither of them believe in
Speaker 1: contemporary literature. But I think that like Tolkien was like
Speaker 1: nothing outside of the Canterbury Hills, it's like relevant, like
Speaker 1: it is only Middle English. No, Middle English is so
Speaker 1: fucking boring and not relevant at all to like today's society.
Speaker 1: And I actually think it should be extract like completely
Speaker 1: expunged from literary canons of today. I think that we
Speaker 1: as a society should decimate anything in Middle English and
Speaker 1: it's not relevant. Where is the sad gay period drama
Speaker 1: about Tolken and Louis's love affair. It's probably on a
Speaker 1: O three. I'm gonna write it and it will be
Speaker 1: man into my policeman's style, yeah, or maybe like a
Speaker 1: BBC miniseries. Okay, So if you think they broke up,
Speaker 1: what is the true story of their break up? If
Speaker 1: this is the Wikipedia version, what's the true story? Um
Speaker 1: that they were both tops? No, they were both bottoms. No,
Speaker 1: I don't believe in those binaries. I think that Tolken
Speaker 1: was into some like real gross orcship and Lewis was
Speaker 1: very kind of pure. Yeah, like wanted to commit to
Speaker 1: the bit but couldn't really. You know. Also, Tolkien had children,
Speaker 1: so maybe he wanted he wanted, you know, he wanted
Speaker 1: to live in the straight world. Lewis was just his
Speaker 1: childless fag friends and C. S. Lewis, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, actually a C. S. Lewis had children. I
Speaker 1: would imagine he did. It seems like he would. Um,
Speaker 1: it seems like a thing he would. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: say they just had some like Drap McQueen breakup. They
Speaker 1: loved each other, but it didn't work out, And who knows,
Speaker 1: maybe if it weren't for you know, the society that
Speaker 1: you know wouldn't let them be together, maybe they would have.
Speaker 1: Or maybe they were just petty and jealous of each
Speaker 1: other's work, which is like what I think happened. I
Speaker 1: think they were both jealous of each other's work because
Speaker 1: like if Tolkien credited Lewis to helping him create this
Speaker 1: like big thing, like would that not create strain on
Speaker 1: their relationship, Like if someone was helping you through years
Speaker 1: and years and years like birth this like massive franchise
Speaker 1: level epic. Sure, but of course they would grow to
Speaker 1: hate each other but you know what, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, they were both um white men who
Speaker 1: are dead and bald and bald wigs snatch and let's
Speaker 1: talk about talk about the diva's they created. So we
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about the White Witch. Okay, there's
Speaker 1: also Aslan, who is you know, the Jesus figure. Talk
Speaker 1: about a stunt queen. I definitely wanted to fuck Aslan
Speaker 1: and pretty much every version of The Lion, the Witch
Speaker 1: and the Wardrobe that's been made. Aslan is objectively hot,
Speaker 1: but like played by Liam Neeson a little on the nose,
Speaker 1: like they knew how hot Aslan was. Yeah, the set, Yes,
Speaker 1: let's let's see if there's Aslin move face upport x
Speaker 1: x X what is it? Oh my god, oh my god,
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god, I've gone too far.
Speaker 1: If you are scandalized that anyway, that's saying something as
Speaker 1: Lands very hot. Also, okay, so let's talk about the
Speaker 1: movie franchise. Um, So, The Lion, The Witch and the
Speaker 1: Wardrobe film series the Saga. The franchise came out in
Speaker 1: two thousand five. I think that's probably how most people
Speaker 1: of our generation and younger were introduced to it. This
Speaker 1: was sort of like post Harry Potter post Lord of
Speaker 1: the Rings. I think studios realizing that there was a
Speaker 1: first for you know, fantasy, I p and um. I
Speaker 1: love the two thousand and five film. I think it's
Speaker 1: so good. It gave the world several people. It gave
Speaker 1: us James McAvoy this was his breakout? What? Yeah? This
Speaker 1: is his breakout? Yeah? Girl, what else did you think
Speaker 1: it was? I'm freaking out. I thought he was an
Speaker 1: established actor by this. No, this was his big bready.
Speaker 1: It was also Tilda Swinton's big break That's also crazy.
Speaker 1: I did not know that either. That's crazy to me. Wow,
Speaker 1: and they Winton just Winton wear with dreadlocks. I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: but can we also can we just talk about the
Speaker 1: production design in general. I rewatched this movie for the record,
Speaker 1: so it's fresh on my mind. Stunning. It's like beautiful,
Speaker 1: beautiful film. I remembered it being kind of generic, and
Speaker 1: when I watched, I was like, every single aim is
Speaker 1: actually like better than most of what I watched. And
Speaker 1: Rings of Power, my god, the moment where Lucy pulls
Speaker 1: the sheet off the wardrobe. I mean, honestly, everything the
Speaker 1: Queen wears is so stunning. Aside from the dreads, but
Speaker 1: like the fact that her icicle crown gets slowly smaller,
Speaker 1: does the world melt well? I do kind of a
Speaker 1: gag like I do get sad when the winter goes away,
Speaker 1: because I think that's the countiest part of the movie.
Speaker 1: It's a really county and it's also what you remember
Speaker 1: when you think of the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe,
Speaker 1: which is why it's canonically a Christmas film. It is well,
Speaker 1: I mean, Santa is literally a character in the movie.
Speaker 1: Just so once again loser behavior from C. S. Lewis.
Speaker 1: I think like writing Santa into your story, bro and
Speaker 1: Tolkien is over here creating like worlds of like orcs
Speaker 1: and elves and author languages like you wrote Santa. But
Speaker 1: I do also think that Santa in the movie hot.
Speaker 1: I was waiting for you to say it, he's a daddy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Watching a lot of like fantasy stuff that we watched
Speaker 1: today when it whether it's like Marvel or like any
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, original they make a live
Speaker 1: action Snow White movie or all these other things they're
Speaker 1: trying to like make from original. I p it's like
Speaker 1: it feels regurgitated. A lot of it or it feels
Speaker 1: like a rushed job. And there's something about this that
Speaker 1: just feels so it felt so fresh, and I think that, well,
Speaker 1: it's also all practical, like now we live in the
Speaker 1: era of everything is c G I and this is
Speaker 1: it's even if it's all on sound stages, which I'm
Speaker 1: sure it all is. Like outside of Aslan and some
Speaker 1: of the end the other like talking animal characters, this
Speaker 1: is a world that feels tangible. Well, actually, the war
Speaker 1: is all c G I and and and at the
Speaker 1: end of the line, the Witch and the wardrobe and
Speaker 1: I actually but I actually think it's kind of fine
Speaker 1: because they gave us everything else, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like and I think a lot of that, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of like what I I just honestly was
Speaker 1: watching this and I was like, if you told I mean,
Speaker 1: the c G is like a little but like if
Speaker 1: you had told me it came out two years ago,
Speaker 1: I would believe you. But that's how stunning it was.
Speaker 1: That moment when all the Pevenses walk through the wardrobe
Speaker 1: for the first time into Narnia into the snow, like
Speaker 1: that captures something about childhood and the ability for regular
Speaker 1: things to become extraordinary, like in a way that is
Speaker 1: so profound, and you could tell that the person don't
Speaker 1: even know who made this movie, but like you could
Speaker 1: tell that there was a love for the story. And
Speaker 1: I also felt like, who ever made this movie how
Speaker 1: to love for the animated movie. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: things that imagistically replicate what the nineteen seventy nine just
Speaker 1: little hints here and there, like what the nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: nine movie did, And I love that because it was
Speaker 1: still reinterpreted. Right, Yeah, well, probably all the different adaptations
Speaker 1: are somewhat in conversation with each other. Have you ever
Speaker 1: seen the BBC mini series from that from the late eighties?
Speaker 1: Does it do all of the books? Yeah? All of them?
Speaker 1: Did you? Yeah? I watched them. I definitely watched The Lion,
Speaker 1: The Witch and the Wardrobe more than any of the
Speaker 1: other ones. But I have seen all of them. They're
Speaker 1: not my favorites. So of the film annotations that started
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, there were two sequels, Prince
Speaker 1: Caspian and The Voyage of the Dawn Treader for Flops,
Speaker 1: which were kind of flops, although they did in reduced
Speaker 1: Ben Barnes to the world that was he was in
Speaker 1: that Netflix show Shadow and Bone. He has been in
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. He's like a hunky British guy.
Speaker 1: He also is a very popular fan cast for a young,
Speaker 1: serious black Oh and I think he's super sexy. Um.
Speaker 1: There were plans for a fourth movie, The Silver Chair,
Speaker 1: which is I think one of the better books and
Speaker 1: also well, something the movies did was Tilda Swinton appeared
Speaker 1: in all of the sequels, even though even though after
Speaker 1: The White which is killed, like they make allusions to her,
Speaker 1: and um, they knew how much she carried well either
Speaker 1: even in I don't remember if it's in Prince Caspian
Speaker 1: our Voyage of the down Treader, but in one of
Speaker 1: them they attempt to resurrect her and so she comes back,
Speaker 1: and that is in the book, but it's like they
Speaker 1: talk about it, they don't actually do it. But like,
Speaker 1: if you got Tilda, you're gonna use Tilda, yeah, which
Speaker 1: is kind of like, I mean, I'm sure they just
Speaker 1: wanted to like get these kids in movies as fast
Speaker 1: as they could before they like went fully through puberty,
Speaker 1: even though they kind of did, but like they really
Speaker 1: should have just gone straight to Magician's nephew because that
Speaker 1: to me. I know, I wish there was a magician's
Speaker 1: nephew movies so badly so um. It was announced a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago that Netflix had bought their rights
Speaker 1: to UM Narnia and they were going to make either
Speaker 1: a series or films series. It's still in development. There
Speaker 1: hasn't been really any news on it. I think maybe
Speaker 1: like COVID slowed down the plans, but hopefully it happens
Speaker 1: one day. I wonder I would love to see it.
Speaker 1: I wonder how Narnia. I mean, like two five wasn't
Speaker 1: that long ago, but culturally it's kind of ago, and
Speaker 1: I wonder how receptive the world might be now to
Speaker 1: something that is so explicitly Christian, like, well, it's it's
Speaker 1: so pure, and yeah, it's so pure. And the thing
Speaker 1: about all fantasy media now is that it has to
Speaker 1: have a level of meta nous to it. It has
Speaker 1: to be commenting on what fantasy is in the modern era.
Speaker 1: And that's why, you know, we have something like The Magicians,
Speaker 1: which is a book series by Love Grossman that was
Speaker 1: turned into a TV series on sci fi that is
Speaker 1: very and I'm not using this word negatively derivative of
Speaker 1: chronicles of Narnia because it's a book that sort of
Speaker 1: remixes Narnia and Harry Potter in this way, it's a
Speaker 1: little Harry Potter too. So um, if you have never
Speaker 1: read the books or watched the TV show, it's about
Speaker 1: um this guy Quentin who's like very depress ust and
Speaker 1: gets into a magical college and the books and then
Speaker 1: grad school in the TV show, and he also had
Speaker 1: a childhood obsession with a series of novels that are
Speaker 1: a stand in for Narnia, but the world is called
Speaker 1: Phillery in the Magicians, and after he goes to magic school,
Speaker 1: he discovers that Philery is actually a real place and
Speaker 1: he and his friends go there and it's so meta,
Speaker 1: like to a crazy extent, And it's basically like the
Speaker 1: whole idea of the series is what if you were
Speaker 1: like super obsessed with fantasy and that thing that people
Speaker 1: are obsessed with fantasy, that that idea you have that like, oh,
Speaker 1: one day, I'll like walk into a wardrobe and it
Speaker 1: will take me into Narnia. Like what if that actually happened?
Speaker 1: And would that actually make you any happier than you
Speaker 1: were before or would you still just like be depressed
Speaker 1: but you would be in a magical world. Those are
Speaker 1: the themes that I like want to see if the
Speaker 1: if like it's ever made into if like Narnia has
Speaker 1: ever made into a series. Right, it feels like The
Speaker 1: Magicians was kind of like the the adultification of some
Speaker 1: of these like tropes and themes, because I think, you know,
Speaker 1: the stories are actually like they have violence in them,
Speaker 1: like or at least the ones that I read like
Speaker 1: had violence in them more like adult themes or whatever. Um.
Speaker 1: But there's room for it to go all the way
Speaker 1: if it wanted to. But you know, I'm sure they
Speaker 1: would never because they would if if Netflix or whoever
Speaker 1: ever made this again, they probably want to prioritize like
Speaker 1: a family Christmas movie. Well. Also, I'm sure that whoever
Speaker 1: controls the rights to the books, like I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: like a C. S. Lewis Foundation, they probably have very
Speaker 1: strict guidelines in place about how these novels can be adapted. Wait,
Speaker 1: we should talk about that because I feel like the morality,
Speaker 1: this is something that we spoke about when we were
Speaker 1: talking through our like Rings of Power recaps, that you know,
Speaker 1: the morality and the kind of good versus bad thing
Speaker 1: that exists in Lord of the Rings is like cranked
Speaker 1: up to the inst degree in the world of Narnia,
Speaker 1: like almost to a to a problematic level, like something
Speaker 1: um I have. Oh that some people talk about is Susan,
Speaker 1: who is one of the Pavency children. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've ever heard of this, but there's a short
Speaker 1: story that Neil Gaiman wrote called the Problem of Susan.
Speaker 1: Because so the ending of the books is really fucked up.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're if you know. So in
Speaker 1: the last book you find out that all the Peavency
Speaker 1: children died in a train accident and they all go
Speaker 1: to basically like heaven in Narnia, and and it's supposed
Speaker 1: to be like a good thing that they're all dead,
Speaker 1: but they're together in heaven, except Susan doesn't get to go.
Speaker 1: And the reasoning that as Land gives them is because
Speaker 1: she had become obsessed with like makeup and boys and
Speaker 1: stuff and had become like super jaded, and so she
Speaker 1: didn't get to go to heaven with her dead family.
Speaker 1: And oh, my god, now I need to read you
Speaker 1: have to so this. In this short story, it's about
Speaker 1: a student who's interviewing a professor of like children's literature,
Speaker 1: and the professor actually is Susan all grown up, and
Speaker 1: there's like some really great scenes of um, you know,
Speaker 1: there's like this part where she talks about as Land
Speaker 1: fucking the White Witch, and it's just like it's super
Speaker 1: fucked up, and it's just like really great commentary on
Speaker 1: you know, the like very kind of pucked up morality
Speaker 1: of C. S. Lewis and and the way that he
Speaker 1: did not treat especially the female character as well. You know,
Speaker 1: they were either very pure children or evil witches and
Speaker 1: they're kind of was no in between for women, kind
Speaker 1: of the same way that for Tolkien it was either
Speaker 1: like Galadriel or nothing. And it must be said that
Speaker 1: they had this C. S. Lewis Untilkien had like a
Speaker 1: writing group called like the Inklings or something faggy like that,
Speaker 1: and they would not allow women in this writers They
Speaker 1: were all fucking and I mean it was also like
Speaker 1: I think that like Oxford didn't like allow like a
Speaker 1: woman to like study their until like ny or something
Speaker 1: like that. But like it's still just like it's stupid.
Speaker 1: It's so clear what their worlds were. I'm actually shook
Speaker 1: that there are even like women characters in like Narnia,
Speaker 1: but like, let's I want to talk about the morality
Speaker 1: like a little bit more because Aslan is as Jesus
Speaker 1: is so ham fisted, and I think it's really interesting
Speaker 1: that Aslan is kind of like one of those characters,
Speaker 1: one of those like all seeing, all powerful characters that
Speaker 1: has tons of information that would be helpful to the
Speaker 1: rest of the characters, but withholds it for no reason,
Speaker 1: like a Dumbledore or a Gandalf or you know, but
Speaker 1: like no one it's never explained why Aslin disappeared for
Speaker 1: ages and let like Narnia become always winter, never Christmas,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I'm sure that's explained, like
Speaker 1: in the actual mythology of it, but like it's so funny.
Speaker 1: It's like and also um, like when Aslan sacrifices, well,
Speaker 1: when he's crucified, like literally crucified like Jesus, like he
Speaker 1: never explains to anyone why it's happening. I mean he well,
Speaker 1: he doesn't explain it only after happening. He explains it
Speaker 1: all after. It's like at any point he could tell
Speaker 1: anybody in this story like hey, don't worry, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get die. But I'm gonna come back in like twenty
Speaker 1: four hours. Like it's chill. But like the crucifixion scene,
Speaker 1: like we have to say, like chriscifixion is hot. Well,
Speaker 1: he doesn't get a crucified, he gets stabbed, he gets
Speaker 1: on the stone table. Yes, but he's crucified. He's he's crucified, period,
Speaker 1: Like that's crucifixion. Crucifixion is like a communal killing of
Speaker 1: someone on the basis of like sin Pennant. So does
Speaker 1: that not have to actually be on a cross? Um No,
Speaker 1: I mean like it's crucial. I mean it is, yeah,
Speaker 1: on a cross, but it is a crucifix like it's
Speaker 1: a crucifixion, like it's it's literally nothing else like the
Speaker 1: ritual sacrifice. Yes, and but instead of across is a
Speaker 1: stone table, which is again another ham fisted metaphor for
Speaker 1: like whatever the cross was. But like it's I love
Speaker 1: that they shaved him. They shaved as lab again, they
Speaker 1: gave him a makeover before they killed him. And then
Speaker 1: in the movie, um, the White Witch like wears his
Speaker 1: fur as part of her look when she charges it
Speaker 1: when she charges into battle at the end, which is
Speaker 1: so petty and also fierce it's a serve and she
Speaker 1: was like, hey, you goblin over here, take this hair
Speaker 1: and make me something aware tomorrow. Oh my god, that's
Speaker 1: such I didn't even realize that when it happened on screen.
Speaker 1: Did you know that not only are there film adaptations
Speaker 1: and TV adaptations, there's also a musical adaptation of The Lion,
Speaker 1: the Witch and the Wardrobe. And do you want to
Speaker 1: know who might have appeared in a production of the
Speaker 1: Land of the Witch of the Wardrobe the musical when
Speaker 1: they were in medical school? Medical school, when they were
Speaker 1: in middle school? Oh my god, you yes. Do you
Speaker 1: want to know what role I played? Have I heard
Speaker 1: this word? Were you the narrator? No? I was. I
Speaker 1: was the professor who owns the house. No, that's it.
Speaker 1: And you know what made it worse is that the professor.
Speaker 1: So the way that the show is written is that
Speaker 1: the professor and as Land are supposed to be played
Speaker 1: by this same actor, but they only cast me as
Speaker 1: the professor. But I have this song. I think it's
Speaker 1: maybe like the second song in the show, and it's
Speaker 1: called doors and Windows, and I do still remember it.
Speaker 1: No doors and windows open and close to high door exposed.
Speaker 1: One just waiting for you. That's just a little intrigue. Um,
Speaker 1: wasn't good? Was a musical good? No? No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Admit is such a little ship like I mean, just
Speaker 1: the name Edmund. I mean, but yet another much like Susan,
Speaker 1: Yet another kid that is like literally a child, literally
Speaker 1: a child making a child's mistake, and like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: he like sells his whole family little Judas, Yes he
Speaker 1: is that. He is definitely the Judas for candy candy.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had Turkish delight? Yes, that's not that good. No, No,
Speaker 1: when it's good, it's good to you. It's like it's
Speaker 1: like gelatine covered in powdered sugar. Honey. Literally all Turkish
Speaker 1: delight is honey. Yes that's true. But the thing is,
Speaker 1: it's about the flavoring. It's about the consistency. It's about
Speaker 1: how much gelatin you use right, because if you use
Speaker 1: too much gelatin, it gets really chilly, really gummy, really nasty.
Speaker 1: But if you do it really light, it's soft and
Speaker 1: melts in your mouth. If you're using like the right
Speaker 1: ingredients and the right execution. Let me tell you, we
Speaker 1: need to go get something good Turkish. I do remember
Speaker 1: that when we did that production of The Lion, the
Speaker 1: Witch and the Wardrobe. At rehearsal, one day, someone's mom
Speaker 1: brought us Turkish delight to eat, and we were all
Speaker 1: expecting some kind of like we were expecting to have
Speaker 1: our minds blown. We're expecting to have our pussies rocks.
Speaker 1: And then someone opens his tin of like powdered gelatine
Speaker 1: and we're like the fuck. It's an extremely British delicacy.
Speaker 1: Like Brits love like the taste of like some sort
Speaker 1: of like gummy thing that is flavored like perfume, like rose.
Speaker 1: Turkish light is disgusting, Like that sounds kind of good. Actually, oh,
Speaker 1: I hate the taste of rose, especially in gelatine. But
Speaker 1: Turkish light comes in so many different flavors. I don't
Speaker 1: funk with Turkish light that has nuts in it, or
Speaker 1: like pistachios. That's not like I don't like nuts and
Speaker 1: gelatine combined. But um in the Borough Market in London
Speaker 1: Town ever heard of it? They, you know, there are
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's like this anymore, but when I,
Speaker 1: you know, was there, they were like huge like lanes
Speaker 1: and swaths that were just Turkish to live. So many ridles.
Speaker 1: I do love the way that she takes off her
Speaker 1: little potion and drops it onto the snow, and then
Speaker 1: the Turkish light just appears. Stunning, stunning, Tilda, stunning. This
Speaker 1: is Tilda's best work. No, that's not true. This is
Speaker 1: a role that so actually I was about to say
Speaker 1: this is a role that only Tilda could do, but
Speaker 1: it's actually not true. A lot of action. No, I
Speaker 1: actually think it's specific to Tilda. No, I don't think
Speaker 1: that's I don't think that would you cast instead literally
Speaker 1: any fierce white woman to play the white wing. But
Speaker 1: I think Tilda has this like this alien quality to her.
Speaker 1: But also a lot of those women have played witches
Speaker 1: who are kind of derivative of the way, which like
Speaker 1: Charlie's and The Huntsman, like Julianne Moore. There was some
Speaker 1: like weird fantasy movie that she played a witch in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in Snow White as well another Snow White, um Angelina
Speaker 1: Jolie as Maleficent. Like Tilda's so good as a witch.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you you know that Suspiria is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite films and she plays a witch, and
Speaker 1: that I just think when I rewatched it, she's fear.
Speaker 1: She's amazing, She's sublime. She does have the alien quality.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I think it's
Speaker 1: a role that's easy to make fierce, like I, you know, like,
Speaker 1: and the production design does so much, not to de
Speaker 1: great her work, but it does so much work in
Speaker 1: addition to what she's doing. I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: she elevates the movie, and like, yes I can, it
Speaker 1: is elevated. Yes I can. I can look back and
Speaker 1: and say that some of that is my bias of
Speaker 1: just knowing who Tilda is, because I, you know, didn't
Speaker 1: obviously when I saw this for the first time. But
Speaker 1: I do think she has this quality to her where
Speaker 1: she can do so much with just one look. Um.
Speaker 1: There's this one moment where after she has been plotting
Speaker 1: with Edmund and she sends him on his way to
Speaker 1: go like lure his family back to Narnia, she does
Speaker 1: this thing where she looks at him she goes, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna miss you so much, and it's just like it's
Speaker 1: so good I forgotten. She has lots of little lines
Speaker 1: like that, like um, when she sends her wolf to
Speaker 1: go find the heaven ses, she goes, you know what
Speaker 1: to do? You know what to do. Um she every
Speaker 1: single second of that and the fight scenes Steva sher
Speaker 1: swords double swords. It's so fucking fierce a sigh being
Speaker 1: driven by polar bears. I don't know why I'm like
Speaker 1: shitting on Rings of Powers so much, but literally, like
Speaker 1: her with two swords is cooler than anything that happened
Speaker 1: the entirety of like Rings of Power. You can't compete
Speaker 1: where you can't compare. Yeah, I'm sorry, Like, I'm just
Speaker 1: it made me. I is watching it, and I actually
Speaker 1: I turned it on to be a background watch, like
Speaker 1: I thought I was going to look at my phone
Speaker 1: or like clean the house or something, and I sat
Speaker 1: down because I was like, damn, I forgot how good
Speaker 1: this movie is. You know who I would love to
Speaker 1: see as the White Witch if um the like a
Speaker 1: new adaptation does end up happening. I think Michelleos the
Speaker 1: White Witch would be incredible. I want to see her
Speaker 1: play a villain. Okay. Something that's like not really talked
Speaker 1: about is the fact that Mr Tumnus is like pretty
Speaker 1: rapey in that he is a full grown satyr who
Speaker 1: has brought this child into his home multiple and then
Speaker 1: like does love her to sleep essentially date rape. But
Speaker 1: the only thing so I guess what happens in that
Speaker 1: scene is he kind of thinks he's going to give
Speaker 1: her over to the witch and then has a kind
Speaker 1: of change of heart and decides he can't do it.
Speaker 1: He can't. You gets turned to stone and that's why
Speaker 1: he gets turned to stone, which like, would you which
Speaker 1: God to the girl? You would you have turned her in? Yeah?
Speaker 1: For sure, because the White Witches kind of like fear,
Speaker 1: Like I would have been on her side totally. If
Speaker 1: I would have been team I would have been her.
Speaker 1: I would have been Yeah, I would have been team Asland.
Speaker 1: But if Asland has been gone for years, that sucks,
Speaker 1: like your leader to desert you like God, and he's God.
Speaker 1: God has deserted you and then comes back. It's like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm in charge again. By the way, Edmund, you are
Speaker 1: going to be crucified. J K, I'm going to crucify
Speaker 1: myself and take all the credit, like all the glory
Speaker 1: for that for sure. And the Witch's crew, I have
Speaker 1: to say, is so much cooler than the good side.
Speaker 1: Like you know when when they sacrifice as Land and
Speaker 1: they show up and all those like goblins and ghouls
Speaker 1: and stuff for like partying. That's like I've been to
Speaker 1: parties that looked pretty much exactly like that. Yeah, Veil
Speaker 1: of Kashmir, Yeah, that was spectrum totally. It was giving
Speaker 1: berlin um and you know the like, Yeah, I like
Speaker 1: the centaurs and stuff like, they're kind of hot. Would
Speaker 1: you fuck a centaur or get sucked by a centaur? Well,
Speaker 1: if you're getting sucked my center, that's like sad some
Speaker 1: permanent damn it. Yeah, it's a lot of dick. We
Speaker 1: talked about this in our porn episode. But like the
Speaker 1: idea of wrecking my whole as I don't want to
Speaker 1: yuck anybody's not my tea. I don't want to permanently
Speaker 1: alter my whole, and I think that with a center
Speaker 1: that is the case. Let me look up some center born. Well,
Speaker 1: if you ever watched the video to death to death,
Speaker 1: he died God, oh wow, oh my god, look at that.
Speaker 1: I forgot they died. That's so sad. He died following
Speaker 1: he died doing what he loved. To death my horn.
Speaker 1: What a way to go. Let me answer your question. Actually, realistically, no,
Speaker 1: in my fantasy world, getting funed by a center is
Speaker 1: extremely hot. Humanoids very hot to me, centaurs and and
Speaker 1: and satyr's extremely hot to me. Giant horse cock. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but some which magical creature are you are you most
Speaker 1: interested in having sex with? I think it would be
Speaker 1: a center, if not an elf, but I feel like
Speaker 1: that's kind of cheating, But yeah, I think it would
Speaker 1: kind of be a humans. I think there's something. I
Speaker 1: think there's something really erotic about horses. This is why
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with equis as a kid. I actually
Speaker 1: I'm a horse girl, not as a kid. As a
Speaker 1: college student, but I did you know that I took
Speaker 1: this is actually horse cock shop. This is a gag. Actually,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever told you this. When
Speaker 1: I was in college, I enrolled and took a full
Speaker 1: course on horses throughout literature, and I wrote my term yes,
Speaker 1: and I wrote my turn this is a horse girl podcast. Yes.
Speaker 1: And I wrote my paper on the kind of thematic
Speaker 1: um importance of horses in the Lord of the Rings
Speaker 1: franchise and followed like several yes, and I followed a
Speaker 1: few different horses through the franchise about like and what
Speaker 1: their meanings were whatever. And my horse teacher, I thought
Speaker 1: it was so good that she submitted my essay for
Speaker 1: a contest that I won contest Shadow Facts King of
Speaker 1: the Horses. Oh my god, I have so many virgins.
Speaker 1: This has just evolved into us looking at Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I love that we can find a way to turn
Speaker 1: children's fantasy literature into the conversation about fantasy horse cock
Speaker 1: slide into our d M s at Like a Virgin
Speaker 1: tell us, um, are you a lion, a witch, or
Speaker 1: a wardrobe? Which one do you identify? A wardrobe? For sure?
Speaker 1: I'm a witch and if Phoebe is a lion, yeah,
Speaker 1: you are a lion? Okay, and um next week we
Speaker 1: will be back with a discussion about everyone's favorite lesbian
Speaker 1: Christmas film, Carol. Thank god, finally it's it's time to
Speaker 1: talk about The Girls, the most important Christmas movie ever
Speaker 1: made ever. So until then, you know, leave us a
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us out so much.
Speaker 1: I'm your co host, Rose Damn You. You can find
Speaker 1: me anywhere online at Rose Damn You, and I'm Franterata.
Speaker 1: You can find me at Friends, Squish, go anywhere you like.
Speaker 1: Subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcast
Speaker 1: to leave us a rating, on Spotify for a review
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcast, we appreciate it so much like a
Speaker 1: Virgin is an I Heart radio production. Our producer is
Speaker 1: Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Just
Speaker 1: Crane Chitch and Nikki Etre Until next week goodbye for now.
Speaker 1: The center is pussy looks like an egg bag. Literally
Speaker 1: loves the way she's holding her boob because it's it's
Speaker 1: so big. It's so happy that she has just it's
Speaker 1: just to suspend. Yes, yes, I love just to stand
Speaker 1: on a bucket to fund this center, because the center
Speaker 1: is so big.