1
00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,240
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,

3
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,840
Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, but she's hiding

4
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,480
Speaker 1: behind us, and this is stuff you should know. That's right.

5
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,600
Speaker 1: I think I have already titled this episode a dispassionate

6
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 1: look at Roe v. Wade. Yeah, akin to our episode

7
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 1: on kissing or roller coasters? Right, roller coasters is pretty appropriate, Yeah,

8
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,199
Speaker 1: for sure, because it's been a heck of a ride

9
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,680
Speaker 1: since h That's right. So, uh, just so folks know,

10
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna just sort of take a look at the case,

11
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:50,080
Speaker 1: the original case itself, and this idea was hatched, um

12
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 1: quite a few weeks ago, and obviously we kind of

13
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,920
Speaker 1: sped that process along and we'll talk about that towards

14
00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,080
Speaker 1: the end. Okay, cool, that sound good. We're doing this

15
00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 1: episode apropos of nothing at all. We just decided to

16
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,320
Speaker 1: try to do it finally, right, So, um, we're talking

17
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 1: about Roe v. Wade. It's a Supreme Court case again

18
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy three. I think it was um published

19
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,679
Speaker 1: at the very beginning of nineteen seventy three, and it

20
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,680
Speaker 1: basically said, um, all you states which at the time.

21
00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,440
Speaker 1: Most of the states in the late sixties early seventies

22
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 1: had bands on abortion, some of them almost total. Uh.

23
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 1: The Supreme Court said, all those laws are unconstitutional. We

24
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,680
Speaker 1: have to re refigure this. And it was the culpination

25
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,360
Speaker 1: of like um, a whole process, a whole bunch of

26
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,360
Speaker 1: lawsuits were kind of file at the same time about

27
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,199
Speaker 1: the same thing. UM. But it was in no way

28
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 1: shape or formed less sweeping because you know, it was

29
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,880
Speaker 1: kind of in the zeitgeist. It's what people were talking about.

30
00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,160
Speaker 1: I think it took I read it took both sides

31
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 1: of the abortion issue by surprise. It was that kind

32
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,960
Speaker 1: of sweeping and that much of a complete course reversal

33
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,840
Speaker 1: for the United States as far as how we approached

34
00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,400
Speaker 1: abortion goes right. It's a good way to say it.

35
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,360
Speaker 1: Abortion is nothing, and we'll probably do I mean, but

36
00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 1: I think we've long wanted to do just a full

37
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,880
Speaker 1: episode on abortion, and so we'll probably work that one

38
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,679
Speaker 1: in at some point in the near future. But abortion

39
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,600
Speaker 1: has always been around. Uh, It's usually always been regulated

40
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,959
Speaker 1: in some form or another. UM, usually in what we'll

41
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 1: call the third trimester. But we'll get to that stuff

42
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,080
Speaker 1: later as well, or later in this episode UM. But

43
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,120
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, there were no federal

44
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,920
Speaker 1: laws on the books, and it was left to states

45
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,000
Speaker 1: to kind of come up with their own interpretations of

46
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,840
Speaker 1: UH what was kind of usually originally based on English

47
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 1: common law. And beginning in the eighteen hundreds is when

48
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,640
Speaker 1: a lot of the states started really restricting or outright

49
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,320
Speaker 1: banning abortion. And I believe in the nineteen sixties there

50
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,440
Speaker 1: were not these states left at all UH that didn't

51
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,360
Speaker 1: have bands or restrictions on abortion. Yeah, And the nineteenth

52
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,400
Speaker 1: century UM was kind of a pivotal point for UM

53
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 1: the concept of abortion in the United States for a

54
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,240
Speaker 1: couple of reasons. There's a historian named Leslie Jay Reagan

55
00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,800
Speaker 1: who wrote When Abortion was a Crime UM, And she

56
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,040
Speaker 1: wrote that in eighteen fifty seven, the American Medical Association,

57
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,079
Speaker 1: which had just been founded, basically said, Hey, we need

58
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,680
Speaker 1: to start a campaign to outlaw abortion in part, UH,

59
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 1: historians say, to help wrestle UM control of women's health

60
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,320
Speaker 1: away from midwives and to help consolidate basically all aspects

61
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,760
Speaker 1: of health, including that under doctors. That's one thing that

62
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,160
Speaker 1: people say led to the rise of abortion laws anti

63
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 1: abortion laws in the United States. And then there's there's

64
00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,760
Speaker 1: on both sides, there's allegations that some of the earliest

65
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:59,880
Speaker 1: proponents for for or against abortion UM were racially mo

66
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,920
Speaker 1: devated to on the UM. On the the proponent the

67
00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,040
Speaker 1: abortion proponent side, they say that some of these earliest

68
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:13,720
Speaker 1: UM laws were basically white Protestant Americans starting to get

69
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 1: nervous at all of the immigrants that were coming over

70
00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,359
Speaker 1: and saying, we need to step up, you know, the

71
00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 1: birthrate among white Protestant Americans, and UM, one good way

72
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,160
Speaker 1: to do that is the outlaw abortion. And then the

73
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 1: UM the anti abortion side says, no, no, that may

74
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,880
Speaker 1: or may not be true, but you guys were eugenicists,

75
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,920
Speaker 1: and you actually wanted abortion so that you could control

76
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,160
Speaker 1: UM undesirable meaning non white populations in the United States.

77
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,800
Speaker 1: So both sides are slinging mud all the way back,

78
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,000
Speaker 1: starting in the nineteenth century. It just kind of gets

79
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,479
Speaker 1: worse from there. Yeah, and of course you're using that

80
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 1: terminology because they didn't have terms like pro choice in

81
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,719
Speaker 1: pro life at that point. Yeah, but I also see

82
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,120
Speaker 1: UM it seems to be more UM academic to call

83
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,360
Speaker 1: it pro abortion an anti abortion because pro life is

84
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,320
Speaker 1: such a it's such a loaded term. It's like, oh, oh,

85
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,080
Speaker 1: you don't like life. You know, if you're if you're

86
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 1: if you're pro abortion, do you that doesn't mean that

87
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,719
Speaker 1: you're against life. So I saw a pro abortion and

88
00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:20,039
Speaker 1: anti abortion kind of settling that dispute well, and the

89
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,560
Speaker 1: both sides have also taken those terms and bent them

90
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,280
Speaker 1: to their own will uh in more recent years, by

91
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 1: saying things like we're not pro abortion, we're pro choice,

92
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 1: and other people saying we're not anti choice, we're pro life,

93
00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,120
Speaker 1: and then other people saying you're pro birth, not pro life.

94
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,840
Speaker 1: So it's uh. This sort of leads us into what

95
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,040
Speaker 1: I like to call the central mess of this, the

96
00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,480
Speaker 1: whole debate really um and this is as it relates to.

97
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 1: You know, legally speaking, there is a larger ethical and

98
00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,080
Speaker 1: moral debate which you know obviously plays a huge party.

99
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 1: You can't um remove that, but we're here to talk

100
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,520
Speaker 1: about the legal case. But legally speaking, the all caps

101
00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,200
Speaker 1: huge mess, which has always been around and always will

102
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:14,760
Speaker 1: be around, is that nobody, doctors and certainly lawyers and

103
00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 1: justices and judges have never been able to agree on

104
00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,560
Speaker 1: what life means and when that starts. And that is

105
00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,960
Speaker 1: the central crux and the central mess of it all

106
00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,080
Speaker 1: that will never get solved and has never been solved

107
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:35,159
Speaker 1: because it's unsolvable. Um, there is no definition that everyone

108
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 1: agrees on. And even the justices in the original Roe v.

109
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,479
Speaker 1: Wade case admit to this and say, you know, doctors

110
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 1: don't agree on this. We certainly can't decide this. So

111
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,440
Speaker 1: that created this, this quagmire and this uh many pronged

112
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,479
Speaker 1: debate um over you know, when is it okay? If

113
00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,599
Speaker 1: ever is it a crime? When is it a crime?

114
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,520
Speaker 1: How severe is that crime? What about the mother and

115
00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,359
Speaker 1: her health? What about the health of a fetus? And

116
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 1: who decides all this stuff? Yeah, we've I mean despite

117
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 1: not knowing and maybe not being able to know when

118
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 1: life actually begins. Um, there have been attempts over the

119
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,600
Speaker 1: years at abortion regulations that kind of try to take

120
00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 1: a stab at it. And one of them was quickening.

121
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,120
Speaker 1: I saw this was an early nineteenth century one. And

122
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 1: quickening is a two for right for yeah, for that

123
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,840
Speaker 1: moment when you first see Highlander two in your life

124
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 1: changes forever for the better. No, it's actually when the

125
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 1: the mother first feels the fetus moving inside of her.

126
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,840
Speaker 1: They call that quickening, and it's like a super nineteenth

127
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:49,120
Speaker 1: century a grarian FARMI um, kind of weird, almost animal term,

128
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 1: but that's that's what they called it. And that's when

129
00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 1: they defined the beginning of life. And that's when they said, okay,

130
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 1: after that, we're regulating abortion after a quickening. That's that

131
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,720
Speaker 1: was the first attempt and that kind of um that

132
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 1: kind of underscores like the the attempts since since then,

133
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 1: which are basically based on this idea of viability, Like

134
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 1: if that fetus was removed from the mom what chance

135
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 1: would it have to survive on its own? And if

136
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,560
Speaker 1: the if a doctor consensus of doctors say after about

137
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,120
Speaker 1: this time or at about this state or about this

138
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 1: stage and pregnancy of fetus could probably survive on its own. Um,

139
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,000
Speaker 1: that has helped kind of define where, uh, where abortion

140
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:37,360
Speaker 1: regulation begins and ends. That's right. So um, the Supreme

141
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,960
Speaker 1: Court back then in the nineteen seventies grappled with this

142
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,080
Speaker 1: and like I said, they they flat outside. I mean,

143
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 1: here's the quote. When those trained in the respective disciplines

144
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,160
Speaker 1: of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at

145
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,240
Speaker 1: any consensus as to when life technically begins, the judiciary

146
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 1: at this point in the development of a man's knowledge,

147
00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,640
Speaker 1: UM is not in a position to speculate, is to

148
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,839
Speaker 1: the end, sir. So they you know, at least the

149
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 1: Supreme Court has flat out said over the years like hey,

150
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,080
Speaker 1: we can't define this UM. That would have made it

151
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 1: even all the trickier if they weighed in saying, well,

152
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,160
Speaker 1: here's what we think. Right. So the upshot of all

153
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 1: this is, we don't know when life begins, but we

154
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,199
Speaker 1: do know that there are plenty of women out there

155
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,720
Speaker 1: who don't, who get pregnant and don't want to carry

156
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,720
Speaker 1: the fetus to full term. They don't want to have

157
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,920
Speaker 1: that child for one reason or another. UM. So the

158
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,680
Speaker 1: government decided that it needed to step in and figure

159
00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,520
Speaker 1: out how to balance those two things. They said that

160
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:41,560
Speaker 1: the state has an invested interest in protecting the life

161
00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:46,560
Speaker 1: of the unborn while also protecting the interests of a

162
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,319
Speaker 1: woman's right to choose whether she has a child or not.

163
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,760
Speaker 1: And they basically took a bunch of plates, they put

164
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 1: them on the end of polls, they started spinning them.

165
00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: They got on a unicycle and rode out on a

166
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,839
Speaker 1: high wire over the Green Canyon. That's right, Yeah, I

167
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,880
Speaker 1: think that's a good time for a break with that

168
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,400
Speaker 1: image in people's heads. And we will talk about the

169
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,640
Speaker 1: case itself and who Row was and who Wade was

170
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:43,560
Speaker 1: right after this, all right, So if you're gonna talk

171
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,440
Speaker 1: about Roe v. Wade, you gotta talk about Row and Wade.

172
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,320
Speaker 1: Um Row. And I think, you know, I'm not sure

173
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 1: that a lot of people have really studied this. They know,

174
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 1: may know a lot about the case, but um, I

175
00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,880
Speaker 1: had never studied it to this degree until we did that,

176
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 1: and it's just good information to have, especially these days.

177
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 1: So Row was Jane Rowe obviously a made up name

178
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,880
Speaker 1: like Jane Doe, and they usually do use Jane Doe.

179
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 1: But when there are a bunch of doughe cases on

180
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,600
Speaker 1: the docket, uh, and especially in this one, there was

181
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 1: another dough on the docket that had to do with abortion, uh,

182
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,040
Speaker 1: Doe v. Bolton, which we'll talk about as well a

183
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,320
Speaker 1: little bit. Uh, they just change it to Row. It's

184
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,360
Speaker 1: that simple. But we do know, and we've known for

185
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,719
Speaker 1: decades now, who Jane Roe really was, and that was

186
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:39,400
Speaker 1: a woman uh named Norma McCorvey and her twenties in Texas. Yeah,

187
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 1: so at the time Texas had um one of the

188
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:47,319
Speaker 1: most comprehensive band on abortion. It was basically UM. It said,

189
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:53,080
Speaker 1: if if the fetus is malformed, their words, if the mother, UM,

190
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,000
Speaker 1: if the mother's life is in danger, or I think

191
00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: if UM, if the what was the last think, if

192
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,240
Speaker 1: if it's the product of a rape. Then those are

193
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,720
Speaker 1: the three different criteria that an abortion could possibly be

194
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 1: UM carried out, under performed under and UM. That meant

195
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,840
Speaker 1: that since Norman McCorvey didn't didn't fit any of those

196
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 1: criteria but still didn't want the kid, that she was

197
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,560
Speaker 1: looking for an abortion but couldn't get one in Texas.

198
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,040
Speaker 1: She also didn't have very much money UM and so

199
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,079
Speaker 1: she couldn't travel out of state like a lot of

200
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,880
Speaker 1: more well to do women in her situation would have done.

201
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,439
Speaker 1: So she um started to get desperate because I mean,

202
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,719
Speaker 1: I didn't say this, chuck, but she had already had

203
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 1: two kids. This was her third child. She wasn't married

204
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 1: to the man who UM she had gotten pregnant by,

205
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,400
Speaker 1: and in fact was a lesbian who was in a

206
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,839
Speaker 1: committed relationship I think at the time. So yeah, she

207
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 1: really did not want to have this kid. Yeah, she

208
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,960
Speaker 1: had given the other two up for adoption just so

209
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,400
Speaker 1: everyone knows. It's not like she had two kids at home. Um,

210
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,120
Speaker 1: she had given the other two up. I think one

211
00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,880
Speaker 1: to a family member, I'm not sure about the other one.

212
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,880
Speaker 1: Definitely adopted the second one. The first one was raised

213
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 1: by her parents, right, which is also adoption. But she

214
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,240
Speaker 1: is now in a position where she doesn't want to

215
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,800
Speaker 1: have this third one and was put in touch with

216
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:19,280
Speaker 1: an attorney name Linda Coffee and Coffees partner Sarah Weddington,

217
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,520
Speaker 1: two recent law school grads who were who were looking

218
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,719
Speaker 1: for a case like this. And this is where I

219
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,320
Speaker 1: don't know if you've seen the great Alexander Payne movie

220
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 1: Citizen Ruth, But it's a movie about basically the Roe v.

221
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,120
Speaker 1: Wade Um debate with Laura Dern and it's his first

222
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 1: movie and it's great and it's a great comedic satire.

223
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,600
Speaker 1: But wait what, you haven't seen it. No, it's comedic.

224
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's a it's a Alexander Payne satire. Is

225
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,000
Speaker 1: it a musical comedy? No? No, no, it's just a

226
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,480
Speaker 1: movie basically. You know, Laura Dern is the central figure

227
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,199
Speaker 1: who was a drug addict who is pregnant and gets

228
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,760
Speaker 1: co opted by both sides like they both have think

229
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,120
Speaker 1: they have found the golden case to make their case

230
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,440
Speaker 1: and and true Alexander Paine fashion like, you know, both

231
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:17,760
Speaker 1: sides are played rather satirically and there are no, um,

232
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,520
Speaker 1: no winners. Really. Uh that's great one that sounds like

233
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 1: real life for sure. Yeah, but that that basically is

234
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 1: what's happened. So she was um you know, later says

235
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,480
Speaker 1: she was kind of co opted and manipulated, which we'll

236
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:39,080
Speaker 1: get into by these two uh women who were her attorneys. Um.

237
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,360
Speaker 1: Later in life she became a born again Christian and

238
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,400
Speaker 1: this is when most of that stuff out about the

239
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,320
Speaker 1: attorney's manipulating her came out and after being pro choice

240
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 1: for her whole life, was pro life. And then uh

241
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 1: came out later almost like a deathbed confession, and said,

242
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,240
Speaker 1: you know what they paid me. The quote was it

243
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,640
Speaker 1: was a mutual thing. I took their money. And this

244
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 1: is to be clear, the uh, the pro life side

245
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,680
Speaker 1: paid her uh to reverse course is what she says.

246
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,000
Speaker 1: At least, it was a mutual thing. I took their

247
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 1: money and they put me in front of the cameras

248
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,560
Speaker 1: told me what to say, and that's what I said.

249
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 1: I did it well because I was a good actress. Yeah,

250
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,440
Speaker 1: and there's a there's a lot of people who argue

251
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,480
Speaker 1: that she wasn't ever really pro choice either. Um, that

252
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 1: that she was um and ed helped us with this one.

253
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 1: That she was basically more of a mercenary who looked

254
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,240
Speaker 1: out for herself. And I've read quotes from her that

255
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,880
Speaker 1: basically say as much that she she didn't really care

256
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: about this whole huge um case that she was the

257
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 1: center of. She just wanted an abortion, and that was

258
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,920
Speaker 1: the thing that she said that she was manipulated about.

259
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 1: That coffee in Weddington basically talked her out of getting

260
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 1: an abortion because they were worried that if she didn't um,

261
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,560
Speaker 1: if she didn't have the child by the time the

262
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court heard this case, she would no longer

263
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,200
Speaker 1: of standing because at the time, the courts used to

264
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 1: rule that if you weren't actively pregnant, if you'd already

265
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,120
Speaker 1: had the kid, your case would just get thrown out

266
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,560
Speaker 1: because you weren't pregnant anymore. So who cares. And we'll

267
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 1: talk a little more about that in a minute, But

268
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 1: that was why, Um, they they supposedly talked her out

269
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 1: of it. They say they definitely didn't talk out of it.

270
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 1: But at the same time, they didn't help her find

271
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 1: an abortion, which is what she was after when she

272
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 1: contacted them in the first place. Right. So, uh, if

273
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 1: you're wondering why this happened, she was, I believe, pregnant

274
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine, and this case wasn't rendered until

275
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,640
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. It's because a lot of stuff happened

276
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one. They were gonna begin hearings in

277
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,800
Speaker 1: December of that year when both Justices Hugo. Black and

278
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,760
Speaker 1: John Marshall Harlan the second retired from poor health. That

279
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,240
Speaker 1: was in you know, they died. They both died before

280
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 1: the end of nineteen seventy one, so they were definitely

281
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,480
Speaker 1: in poor health. Yeah, the prophecy turned out to be

282
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 1: correct well and just crazy timing. I mean, I don't

283
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,199
Speaker 1: think we've seen I we definitely haven't seen anything like

284
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 1: that since then. But for two justices to retire, you know,

285
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 1: within days of each other as pretty monumental. Um. And

286
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,639
Speaker 1: so President Nixon of course was looking at chops and

287
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,720
Speaker 1: appointed William wind Quist. Always have the trouble with that

288
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 1: wind Quist. I know, I just go pretend like the

289
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,679
Speaker 1: h is called Prince's pride in that moment. Uh and

290
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 1: Lewis F. Powell Jr. Nominated on the same day in

291
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,160
Speaker 1: October seventy one, came in and because these Supreme Court

292
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:45,160
Speaker 1: cases take so long to get through, Um, they decided basically,

293
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 1: after a lot of handwringing, that even though they had

294
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 1: begun hearing arguments on that case, that they would redo

295
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 1: it all with the nine justices instead of the seven. Yeah.

296
00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,119
Speaker 1: So this was October two when the case that was

297
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 1: eventually decided started in earnest Um. So yeah, by this time, um. Uh,

298
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 1: Norma McCorvey had already had her child, Her child was

299
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 1: two and a half years old, and already had been

300
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,719
Speaker 1: given up for adoption. Um. But they still ruled that

301
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,679
Speaker 1: she had standing. That essentially it was not moot right, No,

302
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 1: it wasn't so so that that's um, let's just talk

303
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,159
Speaker 1: about that real quick. So, like I was saying, like

304
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,439
Speaker 1: courts used to rule that if you weren't actually pregnant,

305
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 1: you couldn't have standing in a pregnancy related case, even

306
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 1: if you'd filed the initial lawsuit while you were pregnant.

307
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 1: You weren't pregnant any longer. So whatever, So the Supreme Court.

308
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 1: One of the things they did in Row was established

309
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:47,360
Speaker 1: that um, pregnancy could not be rendered moot because, as

310
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,479
Speaker 1: they put it, pregnancy provides a classic justification for a

311
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 1: conclusion of non muteness, which apparently is a real legal

312
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 1: term because it says it could truly be capable of

313
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 1: repetition yet evading of you, meaning that any time you

314
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 1: um that, like an appellate said, Hey, these guys passed

315
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,400
Speaker 1: me over for lack of standing because I'm not pregnant anymore. Um,

316
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: the following the letter of the law, the appellate court

317
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 1: would be like, well, we can't hear because they're right,

318
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,680
Speaker 1: you don't have standing anymore. So the Supreme Court finally said,

319
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 1: forget that pregnancy is a recurring thing. Um, it's a

320
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 1: it's a transitory thing, but it's actually a thing, so

321
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 1: we need to be able to review it. So they said, yes,

322
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,159
Speaker 1: if you are a woman who has been pregnant or

323
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 1: even could be pregnant, you have standing in cases like this. Yeah,

324
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,919
Speaker 1: because basically they would never hear a case because it

325
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 1: takes way longer than nine months to like get this

326
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,120
Speaker 1: thing up to the court system and review it. Yeah,

327
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 1: and I mean all the initial prosecutor have to do

328
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 1: with be like file a bunch of emotions to delay

329
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: it for nine months and then the case gets automatically

330
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 1: thrown out. And they even say, like, our law should

331
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 1: not be that rigid. So that was a big thing

332
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: that they did in in the row Um opinion. For

333
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 1: a brief side track into levity, I cannot hear the

334
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 1: word moot without thinking of that great Saturday Night Live

335
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: sketch with Jesse Jackson years ago, the question is moot?

336
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 1: Did you ever see that one? No, it was a

337
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: game show called the Question Is Moot, and Jesse Jackson

338
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 1: was the game show host, and basically he would just

339
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 1: he would laugh out a big question and anytime someone

340
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: would go to answer it, he would just interrupt him

341
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: and say, the question is moot. And like my brother

342
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 1: and I said the question is moot to each other

343
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 1: over and over for your period of years when we

344
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,120
Speaker 1: were kids. It was pretty great. No, I've never seen

345
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 1: that one. Alright, So back to Roe v. Wade funniness

346
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,719
Speaker 1: now over Um, we have to talk about a few

347
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: of these cases because you know, we tend to think

348
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: of Roe v. Wade as this sort of this vacuum

349
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 1: single case but there were many cases that went into

350
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: UM kind of shaping what ended up happening UM. The

351
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 1: first of which was probably UM United States versus v Which,

352
00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 1: which was in one when a doctor in d C,

353
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: Dr Bowich, was performing abortions and said uh, and was

354
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: prosecuted for doing so under d C law because d

355
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 1: C law said, um necessary it can only be done

356
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: if it was necessary for the preservation of the mother's

357
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: life or health. Key under the direction of a competent

358
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: licensed practitioner of medicine. And he said, this is really

359
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: unconstitutionally vague of of what that means, like what does

360
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: health of the mother even mean? And a really key

361
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: thing came out of that, right, Yeah, they they said, Nope,

362
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 1: it's actually not overly vague. It actually makes sense. But

363
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: they ruled in their opinion, so they ruled against voisch

364
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 1: Um and in favor of DC's abortion law. But they

365
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: did say, but we could see how health could include

366
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 1: something like a mother's psychological health or the impact an

367
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 1: unwinded child might have on a family that but he

368
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: knew and that was huge. So that was a precedent.

369
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: And we saw in the Freedom of the Press episode

370
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 1: that sometimes justices will like rule against the person, but

371
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: then we'll establish a foundation for a later case by

372
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: just mentioning something like that, and that's what they did

373
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 1: in that case. Another few cases that had a big

374
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: impact were the first two were Meyer versus Nebraska in

375
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty three, which was post World War One. There

376
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: was a large anti German sentiment, so they basically enacted

377
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: laws and said, you can't teach foreign languages in school anymore.

378
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: Only English is the only language you can teach. Uh.

379
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: And then Pierce versus Society of Sisters, which was based

380
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: on based on an Oregon case where the state of

381
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: Oregon said all kids have to go to public school.

382
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,479
Speaker 1: You can't go to private school because of the Oregon

383
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: Compulsory Education Act. So those two factor in and how

384
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: they affected how the Fourteenth Amendment and the Ninth Amendment

385
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 1: were framed in terms of row. And it's a little confusing,

386
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: but it's a little wonky, but the upshot of it

387
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: is that the the in nineteen twenty three and nineteen

388
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: twenty five, the Supreme Court established a precedent by saying

389
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: we're going to start in interpreting the Ninth Amendment, which

390
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: basically says, even though we've mentioned some stuff in the

391
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 1: Constitution and the Bill of Rights specifically, that doesn't mean

392
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: that other stuff isn't constitutionally protected, like there are other

393
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: rights to that we didn't mention. Figure it out, Supreme

394
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: Court basically what the framers were saying, or the Ninth

395
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: Amendment writers, and then the fourteenth Amendment UH grants equal

396
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: protection under the law with due process. It's called the

397
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: due process clause. And so they put these two things

398
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 1: together and they basically said that um, that that the

399
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: Court now has the ability to interpret whether something not

400
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 1: mentioned in the Constitution is a constitutionally protected right. That's

401
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 1: what those two cases did, and that established a longstanding

402
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: precedent that gave the Supreme Court that ability. Sure, because

403
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: the Constitution was written in the eighteenth and nineteen centuries,

404
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 1: and obviously there were not things like the Internet back

405
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: then and all kinds of things that we have to

406
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: decide upon these days. So but if you're an original list,

407
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: then that's great because that just means that you can

408
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: overturn the existence of the Internet by outlawing it if

409
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: you're a Supreme Court just that's right. What did Thomas

410
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: Jefferson think uh. Griswold versus Connecticut was the other case

411
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: in ninety five, and they used that. I don't think

412
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: we said that was the doctrine was ended up being

413
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: called substantive. Jeez, here we go, substantive due process. Can

414
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: I take a crack at it? I would say substantive

415
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: due process. Substantive. Yeah, you know why, because that's correct.

416
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: I knew I was tripping over it a very obvious thing.

417
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: They're substantive, substantive due process. Let's just call it SDP.

418
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: Uh So in sixty five with Grizzwald versus Connecticut, they

419
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 1: use that s DP doctrine to say that Americans also

420
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: have a right to privacy because that's not mentioned in

421
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: the Constitution either. But like I mean, this kind of

422
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: opened up all what we you call like the bedroom cases,

423
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: which is, hey, we can't um legislate what happens in

424
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: someone's bedroom. That's that's a right, inherent right to privacy,

425
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: and that covers and that ended up covering according to Scotus, marriage, procreation, contraception,

426
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: family relationships, child rearing, and education, which was sort of

427
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: the basis of everything in terms of row. Yeah, and

428
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: Grizzwald versus Connecticut was not really the first case that

429
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: tested that. I think Loving versus West Virginia, which UM

430
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court overruled laws that that UM kept interracial

431
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: couples from marrying UM. But but Grizzwold versus Connecticut was

432
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: short on the heels of that, and it was over

433
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: birth control rights. But also that led the that right

434
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: to privacy, that substantive due process doctrine kind of led

435
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: to the creation of UM, led to everything from the

436
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: the support for gay marriage, UM overturning laws that band

437
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: gay sex, I mean, all sorts of different stuff. It

438
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: just basically said there's really private things in people's everyday

439
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: lives that the government has no business or no saying.

440
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: So we're just gonna leave that alone. But there's a

441
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: big problem with that, Chuck, And this is a huge problem,

442
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: at least as far as law goes. The idea that

443
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: Americans have a right to privacy guaranteed by the Constitution

444
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: is technically illegal fiction. If you're an originalist and you

445
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: read the Constitution literally and you say, okay, what would

446
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: the founders think about this? What were they thinking at

447
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: the time they wrote this document? Then they would say

448
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: they didn't put right to privacy in there, and maybe

449
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: they do have a right to privacy. Americans do, but

450
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: it's not in the constitution, meaning that it could be

451
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: overturned later by a court because it's not constitutionally protected.

452
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: And that is what put Roe v. Wade on shaky

453
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: ground from the beginning, is that it was argued and

454
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: decided as a right to privacy case. And again, privacy

455
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: in this sense is not privacy like you and I

456
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: would think of like you know, nobody looking over his shoulder,

457
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: but more um, the an American's ability and freedom to

458
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 1: make decisions about what affects their own personal life without

459
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: government intervention, that term of privacy. But by basing it

460
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: on that, it's set Roe v. Wade up on rather

461
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: shaky legal foundation. Uh. And that was actually a kind

462
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: of a pet argument of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Yeah, I mean,

463
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: she was on record as saying that she thought it

464
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: was on shaky ground and for good reason, and that

465
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: it should have never been decided on those grounds. And

466
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: and uh was was certainly not saying that she was

467
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: pro life, but was on record as saying that it

468
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: tried to do too much, to sweeping too fast, and

469
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: the way it should have gone about, Uh was you

470
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: know X y Z and uh So who knows what

471
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: had happened, what would have happened had she um you know,

472
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: had to cover one of these cases. But well, what

473
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: she was at the time one of her cases was

474
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: was on its way to the Supreme Court and it

475
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: was an abortion case. It just got um decided or

476
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: or it was resolved because the Air Force changed its policy.

477
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: So she could have been the one who argued the

478
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: abortion case in front of the Supreme Court. Yeah, I'm

479
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: really curious how that would have panned out. But the well,

480
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: the way that she suggested it should have been done

481
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: is rather um basing it on the right to privacy,

482
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: it should have been based on the Equal Protection Clause

483
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: of the fourteenth Amendment, because she her her logic was

484
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,239
Speaker 1: that by forcing women to be pregnant, the government is

485
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: forcing a condition on women that men are not subject to,

486
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: and that that is by definition, gender discrimination, which is

487
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: uh protected against by the Equal Protection Clause. So that's

488
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: in the Constitution. So what Ruth Bader Ginsburg was saying,

489
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,479
Speaker 1: if you had argued and decided row on the basis

490
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: of the Equal Protection Clause, it would have been virtually

491
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: ironclad from day one, and it wasn't. It was on

492
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: shaky legal ground, and anybody who knew the law knew

493
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: that it could be challenged. He just had to chip

494
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: away a road at it, make all these different arguments,

495
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: and sooner or later a changing court would start finding

496
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: holes in it because they knew the law too. That's right, Uh, great,

497
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: time for another break, I think, So let's come back,

498
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: uh and talk a little bit more about Rob Wade. Yeah. Sure,

499
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: that's a good idea. I was thinking we changed the

500
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: Zeppelin's mid mid episode led Zeppelin. I would do that actually,

501
00:29:54,480 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: all right, So, Chuck, I think you said, um that

502
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: the Roe v. Wade was, um, just one of a

503
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: number of cases that we're making its way to the

504
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. At that time around, I think there was

505
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: something like eight teen cases. And the reason that America

506
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: went from abortion laws starting in the nineteenth century to

507
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, a bunch of them being challenged

508
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: from different states all at once, was because in the

509
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: sixties there was so much social change, and one of

510
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: the big changes is that women were getting out from

511
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: under men's thumbs. They were going into the workplace, they

512
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: were taking birth control pills, they were taking control of

513
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: their lives in ways that they never had been before.

514
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: But they saw very clearly, very early on and long

515
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: before the sixties, that one of the major paths to

516
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: self determination was their ability to choose whether to terminate

517
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: a pregnancy or not. And that's why, all at once

518
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: they were like at least eighteen cases coming to the

519
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: Supreme Court that that UM sought to overturn abortion bands.

520
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: That's right, Uh, And all of these cases sort of

521
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: played into it. Some were actually joined to ROW, some

522
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: were decided alongside Row. One of them was John and

523
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: Mary Doe. They filed a complaint because uh the wife Mary.

524
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: Of course, that probably wasn't her real name, right, I

525
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: don't think that they would have been a heck of

526
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: a coincidence. Well, I mean Mary. They couldn't use Jane

527
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: anymore either, so oh yeah, I guess not. They went

528
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: from Jane Doe to Jane Row to marry at Dough

529
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: and maybe there would have been a Mary Row eventually,

530
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: who knows. But she couldn't continue to take birth control

531
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: role uh pills for health reasons, and so they argued

532
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: that the government was infringing on their right to have

533
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: sex as a married couple without getting pregnant. Basically, Um

534
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: James Halford was a Texas doctor who was arrested for

535
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: violating the Texas abortion band that was tagged on. And

536
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: then we mentioned Doe versus Bolton earlier. This was a

537
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,479
Speaker 1: Georgia case which was really similar to Roe v. Wade.

538
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: Georgia just had a bunch of kind of hoops you

539
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: had to jump through to get a legal abortion, and

540
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: they they decided that at the same time, and we

541
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: could be talking about DOVEE. Bolton more. It just kind

542
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: of went the other way and we talked Roe v.

543
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: Wade more, but it was the same kind of deal

544
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,239
Speaker 1: equally as important. Yeah, the thing is I read that

545
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: UM Bolton went further, like way further that the the

546
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: case was. They were both published on the same day.

547
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: But then in Dovie Bolton, the Supreme Court essentially said,

548
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: like a woman should be able to get an abortion

549
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: and for basically any reason she wants that they couldn't

550
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: see any genuine reason why, um, the government should be

551
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: able to tell a woman that she she couldn't terminate

552
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: a pregnancy. That there just wasn't a good reason. And

553
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: I guess that fact or that argument didn't come up

554
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: in Roe v. Wade, but it did come up in

555
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: Dovie Bolton, and you mentioned that it was a Georgia

556
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: law and that there were some hoops that that basically

557
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: um the um. The Jane Doe in that case was saying, um,

558
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: like George is just putting up obstacles barriers just to

559
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: keep me from getting an abortion. And there were a

560
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: bunch Your doctor had to agree to it in the

561
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: first place, they had to go consult with two different

562
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 1: doctors who both had to agree that you should have

563
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: the abortion. Then your doctor had to go get permission

564
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: from a hospital review board where the abortion would be performed.

565
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: If it was um. If it was because of rape,

566
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: you had to produce proof of rape, proof of the

567
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: rape to get an abortion. So you basically had to

568
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: bring a note from the local police saying, yes, this

569
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: woman was raped and became pregnant as a result of it.

570
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: Like that's nuts in and of itself. And then also

571
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: your family or even a court attorney could block it,

572
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: could could petition to for you not to have the abortion,

573
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: and it would come before a judge to hear whether

574
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: it should proceed or not. I would say there's a

575
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: lot of obstacles mixed up in there in that Georgia law,

576
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: I would agree with you, um, And that was decided,

577
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: like I said, alongside row and in the end, uh,

578
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: well the end at the time at least, um, Supreme

579
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: Court World seven two in favor of Jane Rowe uh January.

580
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: Justice Blackman wrote the majority opinion did the same for

581
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: Doe versus Bolton, also a seven two decision, and Byron

582
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: White and William oh God, William Renquist, thank you very much. UM.

583
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: They were the ones who did not join the majority

584
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: in those cases. And you know again it was it

585
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: was based on those ninth and fourteenth Amendments, and they

586
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: basically said that an unwanted child can be a serious

587
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: problem for both the physical and mental health of the

588
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: mother uh and the family and even the child. And

589
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: the government forcing families to take uh, to take this

590
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: burden on violated the right to privacy. Um, you want

591
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: to hit us with a little bit of the uh.

592
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: The majority opinion. Yeah, they were saying, like, um, you

593
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: you like it could be harmful to the woman's health,

594
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: and you could diagnose that even early in pregnancy, So

595
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: why should the government block that treatment from a doctor

596
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 1: or Um, it might force the stressful life onto a woman. Um,

597
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: she might suffer psychological harm by it, just from even

598
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: raising a kid, especially a kid that is unwanted, which

599
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: is going to have an impact on the child itself

600
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: and how the child is raised. Um. They basically said,

601
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: like there's an also, don't forget like the stigma of

602
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: unwed mothers. Like, are we going to also force the

603
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: woman to get married too because she's uh an unwed mother. No,

604
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: we're not gonna do that, but there is a social stigma.

605
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: They called out like a pretty decent handful of reasons

606
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: why the government saying no, you cannot get abortions was

607
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: unfair to women and unconstitutional as a result. And you

608
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: know a lot of that has been um uh well

609
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: basically proven in what's called the Turnaway Study, which for

610
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: some reason I was calling the Takeaway Study. Uh. The

611
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: Turnaway Study is um a longitudinal study that was performed. Uh.

612
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 1: They basically took a thousand women from three different groups,

613
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: women who sought an abortion up to three weeks over

614
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: the limit who were called and we're denied. They're called turnaways, uh,

615
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: which is where the study gets his name. Women who

616
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: sought an abortion up to two weeks under the limit

617
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 1: and did receive the abortion. And then women who received

618
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: an abortion in the first trimester, and we'll talk about

619
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: all the trimester stuff here in a bit too. But

620
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 1: what the Turnaway Study found was a lot of things. UM.

621
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: Women who were denied abortions were more likely to experience

622
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: UH complications from the indo pregnancy UM, including death, more

623
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: likely to stay tethered to abuse of partners very big one,

624
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 1: less likely to have aspirational life plans for the coming year. UM.

625
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: What else? UM, I mean, there's a lot of financial

626
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: burden to being denied an abortion. UM was linked to

627
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: a lower credit score, a higher amount of debt, and

628
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: increasing the number of negative public financial records like bankruptcies

629
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: and evictions just from being denied an abortion. And women

630
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: reported that having the abortion was the right decision over

631
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: a five year period after the procedure. That's a pretty

632
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: key finding. Yeah, And that turn Away study has been

633
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: like widely lauded as a gold standards buddy, because these

634
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: researchers figured out how to create, um, you know, an

635
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: experiment under natural conditions like the women involved in the

636
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: experiment in the study, the only essentially the only thing

637
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: that differentiated them was when if they had gone to

638
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: the abortion clinic just before the cut off or just

639
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: after the cut off. That was it like, there was

640
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: a follow up Okay, so but those the first two groups,

641
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: like that was the only difference. UM. There was a

642
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: follow up study that looked at the methodology that they

643
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: used and found that UM like analyzing the different participants

644
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: credit scores showed that they were like. They virtually had

645
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: the same credit scores. They were that similar economically education wise,

646
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: UM and that when where they diverged was when they

647
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: were either granted an abortion or turned away for an abortion.

648
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: And the turned away for abortion groups life like started

649
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: to go downhill. The UM the receiving an abortion UH

650
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: groups UH suffered a slight dip in mental health that

651
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: that recovered, they recovered from and then apparently over five years,

652
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 1: the thing that they most frequently expressed as an emotion

653
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: or thought about it was relief UM for having been

654
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: able to to get the abortion that they'd wanted. So

655
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: that's a turnaway study. Like I encourage people to go

656
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: check this out and read more about it. UH. Back

657
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: to Roe v. Wade, one of the crucial parts of

658
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: the decision was this legal term strict scrutiny. Uh, And

659
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: that means that if you have a uh, if it

660
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: is a right that you're deciding upon this guaranteed by

661
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 1: the Constitution, then any restrictions on any laws that you're

662
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: gonna put down or put forth have to be narrowly tailored, uh,

663
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: to only limit the right in that case where the

664
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: government thinks like we should get involved here. So that's why,

665
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: like the Second Amendment is in the Constitution that you

666
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: have right to keep in bear arms. So any restrictions place,

667
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: and this is why it's so hard to get anything

668
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: passed any on gun legislation. Any restrictions on that is

669
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: protected by the Second Amendment, so it has to be

670
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: narrowly tailored to serve just that case. Yeah, because the

671
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 1: the government has an inherent interest in protecting human life,

672
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: but they also have to protect the Second Amendments guarantee

673
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: to bear arms, right to have a gun, So they

674
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: have to figure out through their laws how to say,

675
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: like prevent mass shootings without infringing on people's right to

676
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: have a gun. That's why this is so hard and

677
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: so pernicious. Like you were saying, that's just gun rights.

678
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: I mean the abortion issue makes gun rights seem like

679
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: a walk in the park. Yeah, absolutely, because in in

680
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: the case of Roe v. Wade, Scotis determined that laws

681
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: restricting abortion had to be narrowly tailored um to that

682
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: state's compelling interests to protect the health of the mother. Uh.

683
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: And this is where we get back, kind of for

684
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: full circle to that central mess. With this quote, some

685
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: argue that the woman's right is absolute, that she is

686
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: entitled to terminate her pregnancy at whatever time and whatever way,

687
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason she alone chooses. We uh sorry

688
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: with this, we do not agree. Uh. And in that

689
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: quote kind of sprang up this the central mess again,

690
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: which is how do we define life and how do

691
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: we define where life starts? Again there, everyone has their

692
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: own opinions. Some people say, from the second two cells

693
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: are joined together, then that's a potential human life. Uh.

694
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: Other people say that is not the case. So they

695
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: had to come up with what ended up being a

696
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: pretty uh initially arbitrary system of deciding this. So they

697
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: invented trimesters, which is, you know, months one through three,

698
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: uh four through six, and uh seven, eight and nine

699
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: during a pregnancy. And in terms of rov Wade, the

700
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: first trimester you could get an abortion and that it

701
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: was legal, and second trimester there were restrictions if your

702
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: state wanted to have them. And in the third trimester, uh,

703
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: you could ban an abortion outright if he wanted to

704
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: in your state. And the quote here is that's the

705
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: point where a fetus is quote presumably has the capability

706
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: of meaningful life outside the mother's womb. And what I

707
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: thought when I was hearing this was I'm surprised that

708
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: hasn't been challenged, because that would be the stickiest of

709
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 1: all cases if someone really wanted to to throw a

710
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: wrench in this whole idea. Is for a woman to say,

711
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: I've just entered my seventh month and I want to

712
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: have a c section today because you're telling me that

713
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: I have a viable, uh human being growing inside of

714
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: me at this point, and if you don't agree with me,

715
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: let's take it to court and let them decide. Huh.

716
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: That person would be the most reviled person in America

717
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: for trying that. But yeah, that would definitely be a

718
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: messy test case for sure. But the problem with this

719
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: trimester framework, like like we said earlier, with quickening, with

720
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: the idea of viability outside of the womb, like science

721
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: doesn't know. We just don't have that information right now,

722
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: and so the the whole idea is kind of arbitrary

723
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: because science is actually advanced by leaps and bounds and

724
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: its ability to keep a baby alive way earlier than

725
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: the first trimester than the third trimester, which led abortion

726
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: anti abortion UM groups to say, well, wait a minute,

727
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: if we can do that and it's before the third trimester,

728
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: we should be banning abortion earlier than that, just the

729
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: third trimester. And that led to a bunch of challenges

730
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: UM against Roe v. Wade because again, like we said,

731
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: it's widely considered to have been based on shaky legal foundation.

732
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: So there have been challenges a plenty. But the thing

733
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: is is, up to this point, the Supreme Court has

734
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: always overruled those challenges to large decree or at the

735
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: very least in every single case upheld Roe v. Wade. Uh,

736
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: and it's it's ban on full bands on abortion, that's right,

737
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: and UH Planned Parenthood versus Casey is a shining example

738
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: of that. This was the case where the Supreme Court

739
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: upheld UM almost all of the two Pennsylvania law that

740
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 1: was kind of like the Georgia law in Dovie Bolton,

741
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: where they had a series of obstacles. Um, I believe

742
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: in this case it was spousal notice, parental consent for miners,

743
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: and uh a twenty four hour waiting period. So in

744
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: this case there was not It was decided on um plurality.

745
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: I can't believe I can say that word. Um, there

746
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: was no majority that agreed to one specific verdict in

747
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: this case. That's a plurality. And nowlet's see there, I

748
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: go jinx myself. Um, that's what that substantive plurality of

749
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 1: ring quists. Oh my gosh. Um, So in this kind

750
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: of case, you don't have like a majority opinion and

751
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: the dissenting opinion. You have a bunch of opinions, or

752
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, several opinions that are written with different parts

753
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: agreeing with different elements. Basically, yeah, and that's what happened.

754
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: Apparently four of the judges wanted to overrule Roe v.

755
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: Wad or overturn Roe v. Waight entirely in this case.

756
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: Two wanted to uphold it entirely and just throw the

757
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania law out. And then three of them, Um, Sandra

758
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: da O'Connor, David Suter and Anthony Kennedy. I think all

759
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: of them were appointed by conservative presidents. Um basically took

760
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: the middle ground and they said, you know, um, we're

761
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: we're just gonna say, the only part of that Pennsylvania

762
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: law that should be struck down his spousal uh notification,

763
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 1: because that is an owners undue burden. Um. But we're

764
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: gonna tinker with the law a little bit. And one

765
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: of the things that they did they got rid of

766
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: the trimester framework and they instead said, um, the viability

767
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: of the fetus, as determined by a doctor should be

768
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: when abortion restrictions can begin. So you take I means

769
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: as unscientific as the trimester system was chuck, at the

770
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: very least a provided objective guidance for women and abortion providers. Um.

771
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: They threw that out with with Casey and replaced it

772
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: with viability of a fetus right. And they also downgraded

773
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: that strict scrutiny that we talked about, that standard that

774
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: came along with row of undue burden. So, UM, a

775
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: law could be unconstitutional if it placed a substantial quote

776
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: substantial obstacle in the path of a woman seeking an

777
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: abortion of a non viable fetus. Uh. End quote. And

778
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: the long and short of what all of this did

779
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: was it made it easier to put more restrictions on

780
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: abortion without overturning a row. Yeah, because, um, the Supreme

781
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: Court didn't say and here's what an undue burden is.

782
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,919
Speaker 1: They they didn't at all, which means that it's open

783
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: to state legislatures to start passing more and more restrictive

784
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: abortion laws to test where that boundary is. And then

785
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: that's how we we got here. Casey opened the door

786
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: for that to basically say, let's find out what is

787
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: an undue burden. Let's see what you got state legislatures,

788
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: and they started tripping over themselves to come up with

789
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: the most restrictive abortion laws that they could um and

790
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: and fin and get them into the Supreme Court in

791
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: the hopes of eventually reaching a court that would say,

792
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: you know what, let's just let's just forget about this

793
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: whole thing. We don't think that Roe v. Wades should

794
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: stand at all. And that's exactly what happened last week.

795
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: Of course, it was leaked earlier in the year, but

796
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: officially the Dobbs case was rendered last week. Uh Supreme

797
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: Court overturned Roe v. Aid and said it's now up

798
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 1: to the states. Many states that trigger laws and effect.

799
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: Many more had laws that are soon to follow. And

800
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: this is just the beginning of what is to come,

801
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: which is a lot of uncertainty, including people like Mike

802
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: Pence saying, uh, even though we have long said it

803
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: should be states right, what I really think we should

804
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: do is make a federal ban. UM. People on the

805
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: pro choice sider obviously very upset uh for a lot

806
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: of reasons, but namely because of a few specific things. Uh,

807
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: first of which is Brett Kavanaugh. Justices Kavanaugh and Neil

808
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: Gorcichu in particular led people to believe under oath during

809
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: their confirmation hearings that this was settled law and quote

810
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: precedent upon precedent. Um. People like Alexandria Occacio Cortez have said, Um,

811
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: just in the last couple of days, like, hey, that's impeachable.

812
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: They were under oath. But when you look at their quotes, Uh,

813
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: they didn't say they would not overturn row. They use

814
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,919
Speaker 1: that very slippery confirmation language. Um, it's misleading under oath,

815
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: but that is not going to end up being an

816
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: impeachable offense. I have the quotes, but you can you

817
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: can read them. There are all kinds of articles out there. Yeah,

818
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: when you read them, you're like, Nope, they didn't And

819
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: that was a huge failure on the UM Democratic senators

820
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: who couldn't bring themselves to apparently ask them directly, would

821
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: you overturn Roe v. Wade? They wouldn't answer, though. They

822
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 1: asked Amy Coney Barrett, they asked Clarence Thomas, and they

823
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: they literally didn't answer. So the other thing that is

824
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: uh that pro choice, the pro choice that is pretty

825
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: upset about is uh the idea that five of these

826
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: justices were nominated by presidents who lost the popular vote. UM.

827
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: So we're in a situation where five of the nine

828
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: justices sitting on the Supreme Court were decided by a

829
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: minority of Americans voting UM, and people like Elizabeth Warner

830
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: calling for the end of the electoral college as a result. Man,

831
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't that be a gift? The third thing that is

832
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: upsetting to the pro choice side or how two of

833
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: these justices were confirmed with Mitch McConnell um not allowing

834
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: the Obama nomination Merritt Garland to even go before committee

835
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 1: because it was eight months before an election. In an

836
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: electioneer whereas Amy Coney Barrett was confirmed in the thirty

837
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: five days leading up to the election, the shortest gap

838
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: between the confirmation and election in US history. And the

839
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 1: third thing or is that the fourth thing four is

840
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: that Uh, people like Elizabeth Warren are rightfully bringing up

841
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: the notion that the Constitution was written in at a

842
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 1: time when women not only had no vote, but they

843
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: had no voice. And it was written entirely by men

844
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: in the eighteenth and nineteen centuries. Uh, white men who Um,

845
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: they believe that the Constitution is a living document. That

846
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: and those things need to be taken into account. Like

847
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: had women been able to have their hand in the Constitution,

848
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: things might have been written differently, differently. And we're in

849
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: a different world now where women do have a voice

850
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: and they do have a vote. Um. But this is

851
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, this is a decades long victory for conservatives. Uh.

852
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: That started long long ago, Uma far farmalaxy, far far away.

853
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: Like you know when when Trump had his list, you know,

854
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: he he doesn't come up with a list, He gets

855
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: handed a list. Uh. And this list of justices, potential

856
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: justices were hand picked by the Federalist Society, an organization

857
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: of conservative lawyers run by or at least the list

858
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: was basically tailored by men and Leonard Leo. And you know,

859
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: I think there are people on the left that say

860
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: these justices were hand picked because they absolutely knew that

861
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: they would overturn Row and that was always a part

862
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: of the plan, and that they were coached to be

863
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: as vague as possible in the confirmation hearings too. What

864
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: people on the left side would fool, people like uh,

865
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: Susan Collins and uh and uh, what's his name? Mansion Mansion, Yeah,

866
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: mansion qui. So, uh, that's what has really upset people

867
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: on the pro choice side, those specific things, and that

868
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 1: just that has nothing even to do with the the

869
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: ethics and morals of abortion even well. Plus also there's

870
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: there's some other things that people are really really concerned about.

871
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 1: One is that the Supreme Court just basically said that

872
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade was based on that right privacy, which

873
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: is a they decided was um a legal fiction created

874
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 1: by activist justices back in the sixties, UM, and that

875
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: they overturned that. And since um not just Roe v. Wade,

876
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: but also gay marriage, the ability for a married couple

877
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: to access birth control, UM, gay sex a whole bunch

878
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: of different privacy issues are based on that same legal fiction.

879
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 1: Then all those things are up for grabs too. So

880
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: a lot of people are worried that this Supreme Court

881
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 1: will overturn gay marriage and all of a sudden, your

882
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,399
Speaker 1: marriage will be null and void if you're a gay,

883
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: if if you're a gay couple who was married in

884
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: the United States, that's incredibly scary as well. Piled on

885
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: top of you know, the um a ban on abortion

886
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: essentially is what what's happening now or at least in

887
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: some states. And then, like you said, Mike Pence was

888
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: calling for a federal band and uh, that's another thing

889
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,959
Speaker 1: that are making people on the pro choice side really

890
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: worried that essential personhood will be granted to fetuses. That

891
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: some state somewhere, I would guess probably in the Midwest

892
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: or the South, would come up with an abortion ban

893
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: or even a resolution that they adopt as a law

894
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: that says life begins at conception in the state of Oklahoma, right,

895
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: and that somebody would sue them and it would go

896
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would say,

897
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: you know what, Oklahoma's right, Fetuses are people and they

898
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 1: deserve all the constitutional protections under the law, if so

899
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: facto you could not abort any fetus anywhere at any time.

900
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: There is now a federal ban on abortion entirely. That's

901
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 1: something that's scaring um uh, proponents of choice as well. Yeah,

902
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: and you know just the kind of worms that's been

903
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: opened up now as far as enforcement and are you

904
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: going to send police after people? Are you going to

905
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: send police across state lines if people are able to

906
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: get the funds to travel across state lines to a

907
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: state still allows abortion. Uh, it's just the beginning of

908
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: of a lot of uncertainty for a lot of people. Well. Plus, also,

909
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: if you are pro life or your anti abortion, and

910
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 1: you have um a problem with the with the the

911
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: decision of Row and say that it was judicial activism,

912
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: you have to admit that what just happened in Dobbs

913
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 1: was judicial activism. It just went the opposite way. And

914
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: there's a lesson in there. Judicial activism is bad on

915
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: either way. We're supposed to leave it to Congress to

916
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: create laws that say this is the law, not the

917
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 1: Supreme Court to come up with laws on its own

918
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: and then overturn those same very controversial laws. Fifty years later,

919
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: that's not what's supposed to happen. It completely erodes any

920
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 1: trust in the Supreme Court and its ability to be

921
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: like the final arbiters of what's right and what's wrong

922
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: in the United States. And that's what's going on right now.

923
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: But you know, that's that's just because the shoe is

924
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 1: and the other foot to the other foot. There were

925
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: plenty of people who lived from nineteen seventy three onward

926
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: with that same view of that Supreme Court and are

927
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: perfectly happy with this Supreme Court. And that's the that's

928
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 1: the big problem, not just with this issue, but with America.

929
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: I feel like today is it's just all tipped for tat.

930
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, maybe there should never be lifetime appointments. Oh,

931
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: definitely not. That's definitely not. That is I mean, if

932
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: there's one thing that's just a no brainer as far

933
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: as American law is concerned, lifetime appointments to the panel

934
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: that decides ultimately what's law and what's not in the

935
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 1: United States is just a bad idea. Yeah, let's have

936
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: term limits to pour at it. It's too much power.

937
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: Man's people are supposed to have that much power for

938
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: that long. It creates a really screwed up system. Yeah,

939
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 1: it definitely does, all right, since I said screwed up system,

940
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Wait a minute, that's my part. I'm

941
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: always want to say it though. Anyway, since Chuck's had

942
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: screwed up system, it's time for listener mail chime. I'm

943
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: gonna end this on a lighter note. Uh, that might

944
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: bring a smile to people's faces. Hey guys, a few

945
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: years ago, on one of your numerous and wonderful tangents,

946
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: used the phrase don't yuck someone's yum. I love how

947
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: simple this was and summed up in ethos of being

948
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: kind of people no matter their beliefs and opinions. Fast

949
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 1: forward and now, and I've used this simple saying when

950
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: bringing up my two daughters, who have just turned five

951
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: and three, as a way of teaching them manners and kindness.

952
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: Yesterday I had a message from my three year old

953
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: childminder saying that my daughter had told another child not

954
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: to yuck someone's young and how great that was. She

955
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: liked it so much, she's going to make it a

956
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 1: saying that she used when teaching the children that she

957
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: looks after going forward. Uh. It was then passed on

958
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: to the parents of the other kids who all reported

959
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: back that they would also be using it in passing

960
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: on nice Uh. And by the way, Matt, we didn't

961
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: invent that. I believe that could from a listener, right, yep, definitely,

962
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: So hats off to the anonymous listener who that's right. Uh.

963
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: Some people might wish you stay on topic for but

964
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you that even you're off the cuff,

965
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: comments can educate others, and you can be safe in

966
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: the knowledge that you've helped in still good manners and

967
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: a growing number of children in Berkshire, England. Oh wow,

968
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting that Barkshire even give me a pronunciation.

969
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: Keep night, so you said sheer right, sheer, Like I

970
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: said Burke, not bark Barkshire. So it's Barkshire, but it's

971
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: spelled Berkshire. Okay, you get my drift. Yeah. Yeah, that's

972
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: why I'm gonna start calling up state in New York. Now,

973
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 1: barks here, let's go weekend in the bark shears there,

974
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:50,919
Speaker 1: let's do it. Uh. That's from Matt Walford. Thank you, Matt.

975
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: That was very kind of you to let us know

976
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: we're glad that we're enacting really positive change. In your

977
00:58:56,120 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: kids schools and uh that was kind, so thanks. Uh

978
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:02,919
Speaker 1: keep it up. If you want to be like Matt

979
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: and get in touch with us and tell us something

980
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: kind that we helped to you. We love to hear

981
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: that stuff. You can send us an email to stuff

982
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: podcast did i heart radio dot com. Stuff you Should

983
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: Know is a production of I heart Radio. For more

984
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 1: podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

985
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.