1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Thank you. Sideways is not brought to you by a 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: postal carrying primate, uh it said. It is brought to 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: you by, among other things, crime Con. That's crime Con 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: this June in Indianapolis from June ninth to the eleven, 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: and it will feature some really cool experiences. You get 6 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: to be some K nine search docks. There will be 7 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: a crime scene reconstructions, Blitz, better Analysis, all kinds of 8 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: cool stuff VI I P events also like murder Mystery 9 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: Dinner and cold case discussions and expert panels. 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So again crime con dot 17 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: com and use that promo code sideways twenty to get off. 18 00:00:51,920 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: See you there, Sideways up the I I don't know 19 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer to. 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: Hey there everybody, and welcome again to another episode of 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I am Steve as always joined by Joe, 22 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: who's about to sneeze once again. We have another mystery 23 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: this week. Uh and as per normal, this is a 24 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 1: listener suggestion. This was suggested by Shelley quite a while back. 25 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: And today what we're gonna be talking about is an 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: unsolved mystery that is mined from the show of the 27 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: very same name, Unsolved Mysteries. Yeah, an episode on these two. 28 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: They did, they did. And I've actually I've been slowly 29 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: researching this story for several months now, as you too 30 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: well know. And while I haven't gotten every answer or 31 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: I feel like we've kind of pinned down a few 32 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: things that were a little more unresolved. So that's always 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: good to know. What we're gonna talk about today is 34 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the deaths of and I really 35 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: hope I'm pronouncing this right, and I apologize if I'm 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: not for the last names here, but they are Arnold 37 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: Arschambau and Ruby Brugier. At the time of their deaths 38 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: in Arnold was twenty years old and Ruby was nineteen, 39 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: and they both lived in Lake Andy's South Dakota, which 40 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,839 Speaker 1: is inside the borders of the Yankton Sioux Reservation and 41 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: to clarify for anybody who may not quite have understood 42 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: that the state of South Dakota has nine different reservations 43 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: on it and they're obviously there's towns inside of those reservations. 44 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: This particular town, Lake Andy's, and the lake it's named 45 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: after is inside of the Yanktin Reservation. That's why that's 46 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: that way. That's kind of an interesting jurisdictional patchwork in there. Actually, 47 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: Oh buddy, we're gonna talk about the jurisdictional stuff because 48 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: it gets it gets kind of muddy. But the you know, 49 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: the reservation itself is pretty big. It's what sixty five 50 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: square miles, which is just over sevent square kilometers, takes 51 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: up like six of the county that it's in. So 52 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: it's a big place and the county is in it's 53 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: kind of large to actually, Yeah, it's Charles Mix County 54 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: on the border with what Nebraska, the south end of 55 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: the south south of state. Yeah, it doesn't run right 56 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: up to the border. Yeah. So talking about Arnold and Ruby, so, 57 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: like I said, they lived in Lake Andies as much 58 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: as I can tell, and I'll be honest in that 59 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: I do not know if they were members of the 60 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: tribe or simply residents of the town. I've never really 61 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: seen a whole lot said to that. It's sorry to 62 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: tell about their pictures and their names, but you know, 63 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of Indians have just regular, ordinary 64 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: white sounding names, and and frankly, I they look kind 65 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: of white, especially at Archie Arnold Arnold, it's Arnold, And 66 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: I made that mistake more than once. And yeah, and 67 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: it's hard to say. And I while it does make 68 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: a bit of a difference at one point in her story, 69 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't make a whole lot of difference who worried 70 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: about it. But there are a lot of white settlers 71 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: in that area, so they're probably just white folks. Yeah, 72 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: I don't know. Again, I'm not going to make a 73 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: guess because I just I can't tell, and it's not 74 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: relevant to the mystery itself so much so. The mystery 75 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: itself is that on the night of December twelve, Arnold 76 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: and Ruby and Ruby's cousin, who was seventeen at the time. 77 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: Her name was Tracy Dion, they were driving in the area. 78 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: They were just south of Lake Andy's and Arnold was driving, 79 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: and I believe that Ruby was in the passenger seat, 80 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: which puts Tracy in the and what happens is they're 81 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: they're driving in the area. Oh, it should mention that 82 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: it's late at night apparently, and they had been out 83 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: doing a little bit of drinking because they were all 84 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: under age. Um, and Tracy is the one who later 85 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: admitted that they had been they'd gone out and I 86 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: don't know how much they'd had to drink, but they've 87 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: been drinking. My understanding, there are kind of like three 88 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: things to do in that area when you're that age 89 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: and drink whiskey and what I was going to say, 90 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: it's drink smoke and have sex. Just driving around the countryside. 91 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: That's been a teenager. Yeah, so yeah, they were. They 92 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: were traveling north on Avenue, correct, correct, So so yeah, 93 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: so that's that's perfect because they're heading north on three 94 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: third Avenue. Eighty third Avenue intersects US Highway eighteen and 95 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: it's a T junction, so that means three three ends 96 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: because the highway is going east to west at that point. 97 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: And according to Tracy, it was icy out and when 98 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: they pulled up to the intersection, Arnold said there were 99 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: no cars coming and then the next thing she knew, 100 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: the car was upside down according and so this is 101 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: her statement that you see all over the internet. So 102 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and read it because it kind of 103 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: helps illustrate a little bit of what happened in the car. Says, 104 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: I was upside down on the ditch and Ruby and 105 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: I was in the car. You know, Arnold wasn't in 106 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: the car. I don't know where he was. Ruby was crying. 107 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: She was saying, oh my god, oh my god. She 108 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: just kept hitting the car. The next thing I know, 109 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: the door it was open a little ways and she 110 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: had enough room to then slide out and then so 111 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: I was going to reach over and then just like that, 112 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: the door went shut. So that's her statement of what 113 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: she remembers immediately after the crash. At this point, apparently 114 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: Tracy is the only one in the car, and I'm 115 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: guessing must not have been able to free herself from 116 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: the car based on the events that are about to happen. Eventually, 117 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: somebody does come by and sees the car and helps 118 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: her out. It's at that point that she realizes that 119 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: Arnold and Ruby are nowhere to be found. They should 120 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: have been there and they aren't. And I don't know 121 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: how much time passed between Ruby getting out of the 122 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: car and help rite. I had never found that out 123 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: of either. I never did, I would assume given that 124 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 1: she didn't say, And I was stuck in that car 125 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: for you know, what must have been hours without so 126 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like that long, because it seems like 127 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: she would have mentioned it was weird that they w 128 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: weren't coming back and helping me out. That would be 129 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: part of the lore if it seemed like it was 130 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: a significant amount of time. But that's just my own 131 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: interpretation of it. Yeah, and I and I don't know 132 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: how heavily traffic that's I should have done, Like in 133 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: looked up traffic counts on Highway eight team, which is 134 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: what they were right off the side of. But it's 135 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: it's it's really though on the south side of the lake, 136 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: So you would think they'd be a fair amount of 137 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: traffic on it. Now, depending on the time of night, 138 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: it may not be that much traffic. But that's a 139 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: good point. But yeah, obviously, no surprise. The local sheriff's 140 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: department gets in all then they come out to the 141 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: scene to figure out what's going on. The next morning, 142 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: they walk up and down the road. They're looking around 143 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: that area trying to find Arnold and Ruby. The thinking 144 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: at the time was that they in a state of 145 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: shock and probably helped with a little bit of booze. 146 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: They decided that the best course of action was to 147 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: just flee the scene so that they didn't get in 148 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: trouble for drinking illegally, and after which they succumbed to 149 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: the cold. Because it's December twelve, it's in South Dakota 150 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: that year. At that time, the temperatures plus or minus 151 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: were in the single digits, so it is brigging cold. 152 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: But but they didn't find any sign of a couple, 153 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: and just as a sign of how cold it was, 154 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: apparently when you read the descriptions, it's the car came 155 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: to rest in a ditch on the ice. The ice 156 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: was thick enough to support the weight of the vehicle, 157 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: so that that's just in indicator of how how fen solid. Absolutely, 158 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: although the I'm not sure which dish, because there's a 159 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: ditch and there's a swale. The ditch is very shallow 160 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: and then the swale is deeper. The swale drains into 161 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: the legs. One of the big questions this whole thing 162 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: is exactly where where it is, and we're going to 163 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: get into that when we get into a little more 164 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: of the details later on. Here. They not take pictures. 165 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: I can't find any pictures. No. The oly, Okay, this 166 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: is what's infuriating. I love that this was on Unsolved Mysteries. 167 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: I hate that this was on Unsolved Mysteries. All of 168 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: the photos are from the recreation. I think, oh, look, 169 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: that's a no, no, that's totally That might as well 170 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: be Robert Stack in the background right there, because that's 171 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: what you know that there's websites out there. They're talking 172 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: about this very one and they had those photos on 173 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: there as a real Oh yeah, those are the real photos. 174 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: So we run into that a lot with that show. Yeah, 175 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: it's it's the it's the it's the the beauty and 176 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: the pain all at the same time. Okay, their car 177 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: was supported by ice. There was no sign of them anywhere, 178 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: no sign of them at all, according to the reporting 179 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: the local law enforcement. They keep looking for them and 180 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: was there. Sorry to interrupt, but is this a stretch 181 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: of road that's pretty barren of people or their houses 182 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: or there's not a whole lot of houses r out there. 183 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: It's farms and fields. A couple of miles away is town. 184 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: They worked very far away from the town. Back to 185 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: the town was not even a couple of miles away. 186 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I think the kind of sheriff's office, 187 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: which is in Lake Andy'es is like six tenths of 188 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: a mile to the west of where they crashed. Something 189 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: like that. It's what it really easy for them to watch. 190 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: So it's not as if they could have wandered away 191 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: and not found some place to seek shelter. And that's 192 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: what everybody's thinking is that they wandered away, they sought 193 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: shelters somewhere, and now they're hiding and eventually they're gonna 194 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 1: come forward, and we're looking for or Um. But there 195 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: there was no sign of them. And when the sheriff's 196 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: department was looking around there all of the stuff that 197 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: I've read, they said they didn't see any signs of 198 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: where the ice had been broken to indicate somebody had 199 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: fallen through. None of that is is present. So it's 200 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 1: it's literally, as my wife would say, poof they disappeared. Basically, 201 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: maybe that's what happened. Yeah, but but so okay, so 202 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: let's now let's talk about the whole thing that you 203 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: were saying with the swales and the ditches. So for geography, 204 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: for anybody who isn't looking at a map, like we said, 205 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: Highway eighteen runs east west, three eighty third runs north 206 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: south and tease into the highway. That's what it looks like. 207 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: On the east side of the of three third, there's 208 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: really just not much there. It's not much of a 209 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: dip at all. On the west side, so this is 210 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,359 Speaker 1: south of eighteen. Between eighteen and three and e third 211 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: there is a swale or what did you call it. Yeah, 212 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: so it's not really a ditch. It's with a bunch 213 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: of stuff growing in it, but it looks like it 214 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: could be at its deepest point maybe four or five 215 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: ft deep, but that's way off. It hard to tell 216 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: because of all the vegetable men are growing. But then 217 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: it gets deeper as it goes north. Then it goes 218 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: underneath Highway eight team. So there there is a culvert 219 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: s it's a culvert or a mini bridge something, which 220 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: by the way, it looks like according to the I 221 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: love going through the maps and going through the history, 222 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: and you can see back in I think it was 223 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: the early two thousands they redid that culvert because it's 224 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: captured on the satellite view. But there's a culvert because 225 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: Lake Andy's is several hundred feet north of the highway. 226 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: It's right there, and when the water level gets high, 227 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: it will back up to that culvert and filled swale. 228 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: And this north of high of the highway itself is 229 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: a walking trail, which Joe has helped me understand, used 230 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: to apparently be an old railroad track, used to be 231 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: right away for railroad. And and that's got a footbridge 232 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: that crosses over that inlet that goes and swale. So 233 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: the north side, the north west side, from that junction 234 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: of the two roads is where it starts to get deep. 235 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: But I don't know if when they were looking for him, 236 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: whether they walked out onto the ice or for fear 237 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: of falling in they just did it from the bank, 238 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: but from the intersection itself, And we don't know where 239 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: the car was right, We don't know exactly where the car. 240 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: I'm going, Okay, I'm going to make a giant presumption 241 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: and say that they flipped just off of the north 242 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: side of that intersection. That's an easy thing to say. 243 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: So they were in the swale, is what we're saying. 244 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: The car was another car would have been the east 245 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: of the sale would be well, know what I'm saying, 246 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: or the ditch in between the walking trail and the 247 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: road is where I'm saying it w Yeah that's is 248 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: that what you're saying? Yeah? Okay, okay, the same thing. 249 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, and so in between to the north of eighteen. 250 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: This is getting confusing, But there is a shallow, very shallow, 251 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: shallow ditch parallel to the road, and then and then 252 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: it right angles is the swale. So again it's confusing 253 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: as to look at the area. Yeah, I mean really 254 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: and three eighty third Avenue South Dakota Lake, Andy's you'll 255 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: zoom right into it and you can't get it. Yeah, 256 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: I guess I For me, I'm just continuing to assume 257 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: that it was the swale or something deeper because there 258 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: was the prevention of being able to get out of 259 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: the car, is I guess my assumption. But if they 260 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: flipped the car, they guessing they didn't have a new car, 261 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: probably a little bit of crumpling going on. I mean, 262 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: you've been in a car accident. It's hard to open 263 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: the door sometimes and I'm guessing here, but I don't 264 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: know what I do I have to guess is that 265 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: because of the fact that the lake the water level 266 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: can rise. I'm guessing that the ice from the water 267 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: from the lake had backed up and that whole area 268 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: there was frozen at that point. So at this point 269 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: we've got to missing people, missing young people just poof 270 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: into thin air, into thin air the aliens. Yep. So 271 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: the deputies, they've they've wandered up and down this chunk 272 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: of roads several times. The sheriff at the time said 273 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: he had been up and down at multiple times and 274 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: they didn't find anything. That's the other thing I never 275 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: found in the story was they never found any footprints. 276 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: Did there nothing? No? No, I don't believe that it 277 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: was I think that it was frozen, but I don't 278 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: believe it was snowing. But there's nothing to say that 279 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: they saw footprints. But then again, if it is five 280 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: degrees and it's not snowing, that snow may likely have 281 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: frozen solid, which wouldn't leave you a whole lot of footprints. 282 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: Walking on ice doesn't leave a whole lot of footprints either. Well, 283 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: is that yeah, So maybe they were on ice the 284 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: whole time. Maybe they didn't walk on the snow or 285 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: maybe the wind just blew the snow around. I don't know, 286 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: but yeah, I really this is this is this is 287 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: the kind of story that I really dig and I 288 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: really despise because there's so many oh like it's not there. 289 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, I can't tell you. But we've got 290 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: these two people. They've seemed to have just evaporated into 291 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: thin air. And that's that's basically the end of the 292 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: story for about three months. Because then if we fast 293 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: forward to March of someone driving along Highway eighteen near 294 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: that intersection of three third Avenue saw what they thought 295 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: might have been somebody in the ditch, and they called 296 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: the police. Local Sheriff's department came out and lo and behold, 297 00:16:54,920 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: they discovered Ruby's decomposing body in the ditch or swale, 298 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: whichever it was. I don't know which it was. But 299 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: the point is is that because it had been warming 300 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: up its March, she was decomposing. Her body was not 301 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: in good shape. She was about seventy five to a 302 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: hundred feet away from the scene of the accident. That 303 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: equates tots. She was on the just up off of 304 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: the edge in the so still in the water is 305 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: what I understand, figuring that you know, Arnold's got to 306 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: be close by. They start searching that area, and one 307 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: of the things that I don't quite understand is they decided, well, 308 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: he's not anywhere that we can see, so we're going 309 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: to pump the water out. And I don't know how 310 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: they could have done that if it was the the 311 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: outlet that went into the lake. That's why I still 312 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: have a question of exactly where they went in. But 313 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: they pumped water out of whether it was the swale 314 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: or the ditch they got water out? How How how 315 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: deep did we say the ditch was? We don't know 316 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: for sure because I can't tell. I'm guessing that the 317 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: one that does on the south side is maybe five 318 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: ft deep. That's a gas deep. As you get towards 319 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: the let, it gets deeper. If you go on Google 320 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: Maps or some great photos that are actually GEO tagged 321 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: to that location, they give a little more information and 322 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: the water is higher than I'm just thinking about the 323 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: weirdness about to talk about. I got you, I got you. 324 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: They pump out the water lo and behold, they find 325 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: Arnold's body. He is less than twenty feet away from her. 326 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: He is in relatively good condition, except well, his body 327 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: was in good condition other than the fact that it 328 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: was no longer alive. Thank you for that clarification. Um 329 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: And I see a lot of people call this out, 330 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: and I'm not surprised by that because if he is 331 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: and the thing you also see called that is that 332 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: he wasn't frozen to the ground. But if he was 333 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: suspended in water, that makes sense. It also makes sense 334 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: why he was so well preserved. If he's in freezing 335 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: cold water, why his body would not yet have started 336 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: to really decompose, unlike rubies at me, I'm not rolling 337 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: my eyes. I just think I kind of agree with 338 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: the whole idea of his body being perfectly suspended in 339 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: you know, what's likely less than the height of his body, 340 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: this amount of water, that he's just somehow floating in 341 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: the middle of this, not touching the ground, but not 342 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: so high that they could have found him before. And 343 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: just like that to me poses a really big problem 344 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: because they searched the area pretty well. They did. If 345 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: if he had been in there, I mean, presumably it 346 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: was frozen solid. We've been in there, they should have 347 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: been able to see. But we'll talk about that in 348 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: a minute. Now, there's all sorts of possibilities. I mean, 349 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: I think that maybe that's better for the theories. I 350 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, yeah, let's let's hold on because there's 351 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: there's a few more because we're about to go into 352 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: some weirdo Ville stuff here, which is going to be 353 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: fun times, because it seems like an open and shut 354 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: case of well, they they went into the ice, and 355 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: they went into the water, and that's why nobody could 356 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: find him. It's it seems on the outside, very very easily, 357 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: that's the answer, except that there are things that didn't 358 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: work when or didn't match up. When they were got 359 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: there and they found her body and they were then 360 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: combing the area again, they find a lock of Ruby's 361 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: hair on the side of the road, which they say 362 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: couldn't have been there that whole time. I don't understand 363 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: why it couldn't have come off of her body once 364 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: it was exposed to the elements, but I'll set that aside. 365 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: You mean that it would have like fallen off her 366 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: body and blown over there, Yes, as in her skin 367 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: is decomposing, the hair brakes free and blows away, which 368 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: is kind of gross. I know, it's no, it's true though. Yeah, 369 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that people have said, as 370 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: you say, is that why was it there? But yeah, 371 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: it could have been that. So she appeared to be 372 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: wearing the same clothes that she had the night she disappeared, 373 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: but her glasses and her shoes are missing, and the 374 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: decomposition of her body was bad enough that they had 375 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: to I d her with a tattoo, So it's not 376 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: as if they could tell by her face. If that 377 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: gives you kind of an idea, that's why I'm saying 378 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: I could see maybe something breaking frost, But I also 379 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: think that's a significant amount of decomposition for his body 380 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: to be like, but he's completely underwater and cold water, 381 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: colder water. I gotta go a tattoo, you know, so 382 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: we can identify you. Ye, you know, you should actually 383 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: get a tattoo that just says I'm Joe identified as Joe. Um. Okay. 384 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: So so let's move into the other weird other questions, 385 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: into the strange area that we're at here, which is 386 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: it appears there's some questions whether the clothes that Arnold 387 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: were was wearing when his body was recovered were the 388 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: same ones that he had been wearing on the night 389 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: that he had disappeared. The investigators, like I said, I 390 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: felt it was weird that he was in good condition. 391 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: I disagree with that. But what they also found is 392 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: they found keys in his pocket, which they say they 393 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: couldn't match up or confirm belonged to him. I'm making 394 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: a giant, giant assumption here that they say that because 395 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: it was two a car key and two house keys. 396 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: And I'm assuming what they're saying is that they took 397 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: those keys and they tried it on his house and 398 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: his car and it didn't work. But I can't say 399 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: that with any certainty. Well, the car situation, but the 400 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: house maybe. I don't know. It's hard. It's hard to 401 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: say because, like you know, I have a key right 402 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: now in my key ring that I don't know. I 403 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: have actually no idea what it goes to. Well, but 404 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: I mean, if if all the is on that ring 405 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: is three keys, right, a car key and two house keys, 406 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: it should be pretty easy to figure out where he 407 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: would go that he would have that, or at least 408 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: one of those two keys should fit his house. And 409 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: I tried to find some of that out. I ran 410 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: into a bit of a dead end, which we're going 411 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: to talk about. Okay, the other thing here before we 412 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 1: get before we get too much farther along, is that 413 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: am using air quotes here. Reportedly there was a dark 414 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: blazer style vehicle scene near where her body was found 415 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: just prior to its discovery, which you know, of course 416 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: then somebody's implying that she was dumped. It's really what 417 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: that's boiling down to. Well, I mean, or that was 418 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: the person who or who saw it and didn't call 419 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: it in or even worse, if you stick at that thing, 420 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: they probably was like a dark pickout truck with two 421 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: guys and a scene near the same scene, not you know, 422 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: not too long before or after. There was also probably 423 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: a minivans scene near the scene that was probably also 424 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: a priest senior the scene. Yeah, unless it was the 425 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: time traffic. Yeah, those exist you're talking about. Apparently they 426 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: will as we're still in Weirdoville here. The medical examiner 427 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: who looked at the bodies said that they didn't die 428 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: from drowning. They died from exposure, which totally totally drives 429 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: a nail into this whole thing we've been talking about 430 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: of them falling through the ice and drownding. We're gonna 431 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: talk some more about that in a bit, because there's 432 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff there. But it's weird that 433 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: two people found in the ditch in the water around 434 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: the ice died from exposure and not drowning, and weren't 435 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: found in the extensive searches of that area initially. Yes, yeah, 436 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: days after they looked for quite a while. The final 437 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: thing that I want to talk about here is that 438 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: there was a sighting of Arnold, because there's always a sighting, 439 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: as Elvis has proven, somebody always sees you. Arnold was 440 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: seen at a New Year's Eve party with three other people, 441 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: so that would have been about three weeks after he disappeared. 442 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: The person who's made this claim was subjected to a 443 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: polygraph and passed it, though I think we've talked at 444 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: nauseum about polygraphs and how unreliable they are. That and 445 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: this person saw Arnold with three other people within the 446 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: company of three other people against did this person know 447 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: any of those three people? Apparently not. That's that. That 448 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: is what that is the only other thing that I 449 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: want to talk about that is kind of strange about 450 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: the case. Uh And and then we'll put it to 451 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: bed is that in the reading, you will across the 452 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: fact that this case was initially handled by the Charles 453 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: Mixed Sheriff's depart County Sheriff's Department, and then at one 454 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: point it suddenly went over to the FBI, and then 455 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: it's deemed a closed case in and that's the end 456 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: of that. It doesn't sound like the FBI really took 457 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: a huge interest anyway. Oh yeah, yeah, And and that's 458 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that I randomly decided was 459 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: a rabbit hole to go down, and we're gonna be 460 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: talking about that. So there's a there's the whole bunch 461 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: of strange details that we know. We know that he 462 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: she shows up decomposed, wearing the same clothes but missing 463 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: a few articles. He shows up without any obvious signs 464 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: of major decomposition, and questionably whether he's wearing the same 465 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: clothes as well as having a few items or an 466 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,719 Speaker 1: item that doesn't match up, and this sighting of him 467 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: later on, and they died from exposure, not drownding. So 468 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: this is there's a whole bunch of things in here 469 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: that this is why I got into this case initially 470 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: because it just doesn't added up to me. Anyway, all right, Now, 471 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: as we've talked about here, initially, we're not exactly positive 472 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: of where the car flipped, so which side of the 473 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: ditch or the road it was on, which makes it 474 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: kind of tough to determine exactly where the bodies were 475 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: found though, Joe, So in the reading, it always says 476 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: they were found between Highway eighteen and the railroad tracks. 477 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: And I had never figured out where the railroad tracks. 478 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: But that's what you how did you figure that out? Well, 479 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: I mean there was there were no railroad tracks anywhere 480 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: near the road, right, Yeah, there weren't. But but if 481 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: you get on the street view and you look, there's 482 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: a footpath to the north of the road, and the 483 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: bridge across the swale as a freaking railroad bridge. We've 484 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: all seen railroad tracks. We know what railroad bridges look like. 485 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: Its bridge. And we live in an area around here 486 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: where at least at least several highway former excuse me, 487 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: not highways, former railway right of ways have been turned 488 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: into footpaths, bicycle path Yeah, and that's what path that 489 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: paralleled the highway? Well, that description for that must be 490 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: where the railroad tracks were. Yeah, So there you go. 491 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: So that's why I put the car on the north 492 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: side of Highway eighteen. Well that that that makes total 493 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: sense to me. I was going to call the parks Department, 494 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: and then I literally spaced it out because I figured 495 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: they were responsible for maintaining it, but then spaced out 496 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: calling them. But taking a big page from Joe's book, 497 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: this week, I actually did pick up the phone and 498 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: call at least one person who was none too happy 499 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: to talk to me. Our revenue hard at work. They 500 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: rarely are happy to talk to you. I noticed that. 501 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: So I called the Charles Mix County Sheriff's Department and 502 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: I asked somebody to talk to you about this case, 503 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: and they immediately transferred me to the sheriff himself. That 504 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: would be sheriff failure. Follower failure. Oh sorry, sir, But 505 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: the point is he he did confirm some details about 506 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: the case, though he wasn't all that excited to share 507 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: much because he didn't. He said his reasoning for not 508 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: wanting to share a whole lot was that he hadn't 509 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,479 Speaker 1: read on the file in a long time. He's been 510 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: shared for like six or seven years in this case 511 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: obviously predates him. What he did confirm for me was 512 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: obviously the intersection of where the the accident happened. One 513 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: of my initial questions was, I wanted to know if 514 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: a blood alcohol was done on the bodies, because we've 515 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: talked about that before. Is that can indicate if they 516 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: had elevated levels of alcohol when they died, or if 517 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: the body had burned that off prior to their death. 518 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: But he wouldn't. He wouldn't speak to that. That's okay. Finally, 519 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: empties in the car. By the way, I don't know 520 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: if there was any dead soldiers, have no idea. But 521 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: what he did help me figure out was he did 522 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: help me figure out some of the stuff that was 523 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: going on in regard to the discussion of the FBI 524 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: v being involved in the case. So we talked about 525 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: the FBI. That's actually where I started with this case. 526 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: And that's why, uh you I talked to you two 527 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: about this before. Is I got a wild hair one 528 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: night and deciding that, well, the FBI has been involved, 529 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: they have to know something. I filed freedom of information 530 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: acts to find out what they knew. And we looked 531 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: at you like you were an insane person. Yeah, because 532 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:30,479 Speaker 1: why did I use my real address? Stupid well, I 533 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: expected to hear nothing back, but obviously I got something 534 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: back from the FBI on both Ruby and Arnold, and 535 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: that was the letters stating that they didn't have any 536 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: information on them so they couldn't share anything and thank 537 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: you very much, and here's our appeals process of And 538 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: so I was I was rather confused, and I'm not 539 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: the law is not my forte. And if it wasn't 540 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: for the fact that I reached out to a couple 541 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: of our experts, I still wouldn't understand exactly why the 542 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: FBI didn't have anything on this case. So big thanks 543 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: to Steven and Nicholas, because they really they really helped 544 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: me out with this. And so here's why I understand 545 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: the FBI got involved. According to the federal government, there 546 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: are several distinctions about what they can and cannot do 547 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: and can and cannot get involved within Indian country. Yes, 548 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: that's what they refer to it as. And I know 549 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: that some people will say it's state of American, other 550 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,479 Speaker 1: will say it's Indian. I'm not going to weigh in 551 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: because I actually read on this subject. It was like 552 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: what is it? And it's an individual preference. So I'm 553 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: when I say it one way. That's based off of 554 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: the way it was referred to in the thing. That's 555 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: what the FBI calls it is. Yeah, and this is 556 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: this is the way I found it. So just yeah, 557 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: I went out to the acted suit tribes and they 558 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: all say Indian. They say they say Indian more than 559 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: they say Native American. So it's a little confusing. So 560 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: but but he there there have been several legal cases 561 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: that have helped put in different levels of jurisdiction for 562 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: federal involvement. Back in the eighteen hundreds, it was if 563 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: a crime was committed on the reservation, it was handled locally, 564 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: and then there was some legal disputes. At one point 565 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: what is known as the Major Crimes Act was put 566 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: into that specified certain crimes that could be involved with 567 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: the or the Feds could be involved with. And then 568 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: that's been changed over time. But but basically what that 569 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: means for the folks that are law enforcement in that 570 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: area is like they this little flow chart I have here. 571 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: I swear they must have to carry it around because 572 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: it's a if the perpetrators Native American committing a non 573 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: major crime on tribal territory and it's either a victimless crime, 574 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: or it's against another Native American, the tribe has sold jurisdiction. 575 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,479 Speaker 1: If the perpetrators native American committing a non major crime 576 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: on tribal territory against a non Native American, there's joint 577 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: jurisdiction between the FEDS and the tribe. And if the 578 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: crime is committed and it is a major crime murder 579 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: per se, the Feds and the tribes both have joint 580 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: jurisdiction no matter who the perpetrator is or who the 581 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: crime is against. So it's like this is just a 582 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: hodgepodge and that that sounds confusing enough. Well, yeah, I 583 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: guess worse than it does, because it's a nightmare. And 584 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: and I really I commend the men and women who 585 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: work in that that Sheriff's department for working through this 586 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: every day. Because apparently the Yankton Sioux had a dispute 587 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: about territory that was theirs and what wasn't. There's based 588 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: on a land sale in the eighteen nineties and the 589 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: Yankton Sioux had a case that went eventually up to 590 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court in Um and it was all around 591 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: that that agreement, whether it was their land or not. 592 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: It was something about a waste for disposal facility, and 593 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: whether they were going to use state or federal environmental 594 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: guidelines to to manage it, because well, it was on 595 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: it was in a white owned area because the original 596 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: reservation gifted to the Indians or whatever by the by 597 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: the Feds seated to the unions. Yeah, the Feds actually 598 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: afterwards sold off portions of it to white settlers. So 599 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: it was in a white zone. They were going to 600 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 1: put it in right until technically on the reservation, even 601 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: though not exactly on the reservation. And so and you 602 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: just use a term that I wanted to explain because 603 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 1: because this this whole thing created a shifting map based 604 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: on which so it worked its way through the courts, 605 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: that lawsuit about who owned that land, and what that 606 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: did is that change who had jurisdiction in that specific area. 607 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: And it was a shifting map. And there was a 608 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: red zone and a white zone. And I really hope 609 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,439 Speaker 1: that red zone doesn't mean redskin, but I think it does, 610 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: and it meant it meant in you know, is that 611 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: that joint Indian and federal jurisdiction. The white zone was 612 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: going to be the sheriff's department or normal county jurisdiction, right, 613 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 1: And so I think what happens here is that through 614 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: that shifting map, the crime or that the crime, the 615 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: accident itself, and this potential crime where these people of 616 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: poof evaporated suddenly falls into a possible scenario where the 617 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: Feds need to be handling it because it could be 618 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: a major crime. And so from what I can tell, 619 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: essentially the whole thing that the fence took it, figured 620 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: out it wasn't their ball and like a hot potato. 621 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: I can't tell whether they threw it back to the 622 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: sheriff's department as soon as they could, or they just 623 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: closed it. I got rid of it. Yeah, I don't. Well, 624 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: it was actually in their court. It was in their 625 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: jurisdiction from what I can tell, because the town of 626 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: Lake Andy's is in the red zone. So and but 627 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: I think they just immediately determined no crime had been committed. Essentially, 628 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: they probably opened a file on it and didn't put 629 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: anything in there. It was a blank file, which is 630 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 1: why my letters were empty. Absolutely they hadn't. They really 631 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: did have nothing because no crime was even committed. I mean, 632 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: they might not have even actually opened the file. I 633 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. But what I can tell 634 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: you is this is the reason that I now understand 635 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: the frustration in the sheriff's voice when I said, I 636 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: don't understand what you mean by that about the FEDS 637 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: getting jurisdiction and him explaining it to me, And I 638 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: just didn't have enough history on that particular bit to 639 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: not get it. But I understand why. That's that's a 640 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,439 Speaker 1: living nightmare to work through. So if nothing else, that's 641 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: why the FEDS got the case. And then of course 642 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: they absolutely nothing punted it. Yes, they totally totally punted. 643 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: Here's your sports reference, everyone, Yes, absolutely, So that that 644 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: right there, ladies, And gent's that is our story. That 645 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: is all we have on it. So before we get 646 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: into the theories, let's take a quick break. Yeah, who 647 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: get in moon encircle the world flying hive of watching 648 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: his events unfold. Each morning they take flight and it's 649 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: night they return to report what they're seeing to keep 650 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: outing informed. When they return at night, their meal is uncertain. 651 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: But with their help watching the world, Odin is able 652 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: to keep up with everything and have time to spare 653 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: to shop for all the ingredients he needs to make 654 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 1: those tasty meals for himself and the other Norse gods. 655 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,919 Speaker 1: But we're not Norse gods. Unfortunately, we don't have those 656 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: kinds of guys doing our work for us. Uh. We 657 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: most of us have to do our shopping ourselves. But 658 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: we do now have home Chef to do that for 659 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 1: us and allow us to make really tasty meals easily 660 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: every day. With home Chef, you can cook like a 661 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,800 Speaker 1: five star chef whenever you want. The meals are mouth watering. 662 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,720 Speaker 1: They have preproportioned ingredients and so they're easy to prepare. 663 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,879 Speaker 1: It takes maybe thirty minutes and give you a lot 664 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,240 Speaker 1: more time to relax afterwards. Don't have to spend forty 665 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: five minutes in the store buying that stuff. Just last 666 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: night I had the turkey wraps, easy to make, tasted 667 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: as good or better than anything I would have had 668 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: in a restaurant. And so if you want that fabulous 669 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: experience for yourself, all you gotta do is go to 670 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: home chef dot com slash sideways and you'll get thirty 671 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: bucks in free meals. But you gotta put that slash 672 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: sideways in there, so that's home chef dot com slash 673 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: sideways and you'll get thirty dollars in free meals eat well, 674 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: and we're back theory time. So there's there's really two 675 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 1: main theories within a bunch of sub theories on them. 676 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: So theory number one is main theory is that they 677 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: died at the scene, and the subset is that I've 678 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: titled it thrown from the car. According to this theory, 679 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: they simply wandered away from the car and they died 680 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: from exposure to the elements in the area. And why Well, 681 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: according to Tracy, she said Arnold wasn't in the car 682 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: after it had flipped, So it is possible that if 683 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, he could have gone through 684 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: the windshield, or the door could have opened during the 685 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: role and he could have been flung from the door itself. 686 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,240 Speaker 1: I'll admit there's nothing in the reporting about a human 687 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: sized hole in the windshield, so I don't think that 688 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: he went through the windshield. But this, then, if we 689 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: follow it, let's just say he was he was thrown 690 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: from the car and went out the door. The door 691 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: popped open and he went through it. Then that when 692 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: Ruby got out, she went to him. You know, that's 693 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: why she's saying, O God, Oh God, oh my god, 694 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,800 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god. She goes to him. Um, 695 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: and then from there, I don't know literally, I mean 696 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: they were like they were like twenty ft or less 697 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: away from the car, right, they're pretty close from the accident. 698 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: The bodies are fed, which that's really fast to die 699 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: from the elements of exposure. Excuse me, that's incredibly I mean, 700 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: it would have had to have been blizzard like conditions. 701 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: I feel that they would have gotten lost in the 702 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: white out and not been able to find their way back, 703 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,320 Speaker 1: which there's no there's nothing to say that. But I 704 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: also will say that to me, Arnold doesn't have to 705 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,919 Speaker 1: have been thrown from the car, because there there's also 706 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 1: such a thing as like going into shock or like 707 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: passing out. And Tracy, right, Tracy year old, It's totally 708 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: possible that she just blacked out from as the car 709 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 1: was flipping around, and then as she came to he 710 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: was no longer in the car. Yeah, because when they 711 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: found his body, he didn't had the sort of contusions 712 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: that you would associate with being thrown from the car. 713 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: Not in any of the reporting on this, he just Okay, 714 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 1: So I think we can put that one too, bed 715 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: because I'm not in disagreement at all with that. Um 716 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: So then that, yeah, like you said, he got out 717 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: of the car, she didn't. She didn't realize that. She 718 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: came to and he was already gone, and so this 719 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: so this next theory then is that they simply they 720 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: tried to run away, and that is, like we talked 721 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 1: about earlier, they get out of the car, they realized 722 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: that they are in a world of trouble because they 723 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: have wrecked their car and they are underage and drinking. 724 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: And one of the things to keep in mind is 725 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: that the couple had a daughter at She was maybe 726 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: a year old at the most at the time, so 727 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 1: there may have been oh, this is gonna be bad, 728 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: whole bunch of negative repercussions from it. We need to 729 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: just beat feet and get out of here. So let's 730 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: go oh yeah, so again, but yeah, but it's weird 731 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,799 Speaker 1: that they would leave Tray Well, yeah, like, why didn't 732 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: you just take everybody with you? I'm starting to formulate 733 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 1: some more theory here, right, So again, Tracy, let's say 734 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: she blacks out, passes out, we don't know for how long. 735 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 1: Maybe she was also not wearing a seatbelt. She's getting 736 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: thrown around a little bit, they settle, and in situations 737 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: like that often your sense of time elongates. Right. So 738 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: Arnold is the most awake of all of them somehow, 739 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, Tracy, everybody okay, and girlfriend Ruby 740 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: you know, says I'm okay, and Tracy says nothing, and 741 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 1: he goes, Oh, crap, I've killed Tracy. You have to 742 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: get out of here. Because Tracy also doesn't mention that 743 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: she said anything to Ruby when she gained consciousness, So 744 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,959 Speaker 1: it's totally possible in my mind that he's like, oh crap. 745 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,839 Speaker 1: He gets out, She's like, oh my god, we killed her. 746 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: She gets out and they leave her thinking she's dead. 747 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: Tracy is there, she's eyes, but she's not really saying 748 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,839 Speaker 1: anything because she's in that state of shock. I can 749 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: run with that that that is a better explanation, because 750 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,919 Speaker 1: I couldn't understand why you would abandoned the other person. 751 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,839 Speaker 1: But then if you think that person is dead, then 752 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 1: you're definitely going to get the hell out of it. Yeah, 753 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: there's that. There's you know. Another thing is they didn't 754 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 1: do any toxicology in the bodies, right, I have no idea. Joe. Again, 755 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: I tried to ask about that stuff. I couldn't get 756 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 1: an answer on it. Haven't seen any reporting to confirm 757 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: or deny that they did. I would presume that they 758 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: did so wandering away like that, you know, from an 759 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: accident and forgetting about your cousinants in the back seat. 760 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: It's the sort of thing I associated with, like LSD 761 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: or head injuries, you know, being in a car that 762 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 1: flipped over a couple of times. Or the other thing 763 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:47,840 Speaker 1: I was going to say is that it sounds like 764 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: Ruby's body was probably too far gone to even do 765 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: a toxicolity report, but I would guess it was wasn't 766 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: really conclusive if they did it. But but I don't know. 767 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: But the whole thing is is that again I want 768 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,720 Speaker 1: to come back to if they died there at that time, 769 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: Let's come back to the fact that they didn't die 770 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: because they drowned. They died from exposure and again no 771 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,240 Speaker 1: whole obvious holes in the ice. And let's just okay, 772 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: let's let's just run down hypothetical scenario of one of 773 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,320 Speaker 1: them goes in, the other one goes in trying to 774 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: rescue them, and now they are both treading water in 775 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: freezing cold water. The reading that I've done says that 776 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: you can you know, most people can survive for at 777 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: least a half hour. Bear with me. Bear with me. 778 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: How many times have you stepped off and found a 779 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: deep spot when you were walking into the water. And 780 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: also and you're like, whoa, Now, imagine you don't know 781 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: where the ledge that you just came off of was. 782 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 1: So they're they're treading water, they're trying to get back 783 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: out by climbing out of the ice. It could have 784 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: lasted for a while until they finally succumbed to hypothermia, 785 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 1: which I would I'm guessing balls under the umbrella of 786 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: death by exposure, so that they don't they're not listed 787 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 1: as having being grounding victims. But I but again, why 788 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,359 Speaker 1: wouldn't I mean, that kind of hole in the ice 789 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,040 Speaker 1: should be really obvious to the people who were looking 790 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 1: for them. Of course, it might depend on how far 791 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,359 Speaker 1: out they went towards the lake to look. I mean, 792 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: they could have wanted out quite a ways on that 793 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 1: water that water way out to the lake, Okay, go ahead, 794 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, yeah, So they would have expected then 795 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 1: to be with thinking that there's no rational reason that 796 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: they would walk way far out towards the lake. They 797 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 1: didn't go out that far to look probably, But the 798 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,480 Speaker 1: difficulty with that is that means that if they walked 799 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,759 Speaker 1: due north in some fashion, they and then they go 800 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,879 Speaker 1: in the water, and then they die and they go underwater. 801 00:45:55,560 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 1: Their bodies then had to go back south towards the bridge, 802 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: which is an outlet, meaning the water is flowing northward already, 803 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,280 Speaker 1: so now they're flowing their their bodies traveling against the current. 804 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,279 Speaker 1: It can depend on this is like suddenly I've I've 805 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 1: redeemed myself for ray Greek cars, stupid hard drive and 806 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 1: understanding how would dynamics works? Absolutely? Yeah, what are we 807 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,800 Speaker 1: talking about? dB Cooper? But you see my point, Joel, Like, 808 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: I get that. I thought the same thing. I was like, well, 809 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: maybe you know, the water just shoved him in. And 810 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 1: then I started thinking about, well, if it's march and 811 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: it's run off and it's melt, everything's going out into 812 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 1: the lake. So how do you explain that. I know, 813 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: that's a tricky thing. I mean he could have actually, 814 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what they did to actually 815 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: damn off the inlet. When they started draining it and 816 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 1: pumping the water out of it. He might have been 817 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: further out and make that by sucked his body, sucked 818 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 1: his body further further south, you know, possible, But they 819 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 1: did find her body. Her body was she wasn't on 820 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 1: the edge. It was actually out of the water. Yeah, 821 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: she apparently, I get the if I were to use 822 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: the images from Unsolved Mysteries, is any kind of metric, 823 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: which I'm not going to, I think that she was 824 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 1: in several feet of water, but floating and you know, 825 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,520 Speaker 1: on the top of several feet of water. That's all 826 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 1: I got on on that. So, yeah, you're right, Joe. 827 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:33,279 Speaker 1: They may have inadvertently pulled him in farther into the 828 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:38,359 Speaker 1: area than he initially was. I don't know. So that though, 829 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,560 Speaker 1: that is the end of they died at that site, 830 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: or died there at that time, I should clarify they 831 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,919 Speaker 1: died there at that time, is what both of these 832 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 1: are are falling under. So that takes us to our 833 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: next theory, which is, I know, the look on your face, Devan, 834 00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:00,279 Speaker 1: it is not aliens, but it should be possibly. I mean, 835 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: it's a pretty good theory for this one that the 836 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,839 Speaker 1: aliens abducted them, they subjected them to experiments, and then 837 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,359 Speaker 1: dumped them back kind of where they thought they would 838 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 1: be in sort of the same condition, because aliens don't know, well, 839 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 1: you know, things happen. Okay, no, not really. My next 840 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 1: theory here is they ran away from the scene, as 841 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: we've just discussed, and then somehow they came back to 842 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 1: the scene like weeks later and then died. Then after 843 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,239 Speaker 1: weeks after died, I guess, yes, And it doesn't make 844 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: a lot of sense for month after yeah, some month. 845 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 1: So this, this whole thing, this whole theory, which I 846 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 1: don't put a whole lot of stock in, is that 847 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:48,560 Speaker 1: basically they beat feet, somebody gave them shelter. Arnold couldn't 848 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 1: take being camped up in the little spot they were 849 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: hiding at. Any morning, he went to a New Year's 850 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 1: Eve party to blow some steam off, and then they 851 00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,879 Speaker 1: went back to that site because they thought their car 852 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:06,640 Speaker 1: was still there. I don't know, and then they died there. 853 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,160 Speaker 1: I mean this, I will admit right now this, I've 854 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,560 Speaker 1: seen this before, and it's the hokeyest theory in the world, 855 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 1: because there's no logical reason for them to go back 856 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,160 Speaker 1: days or weeks later. Well, you don't know, I mean 857 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,439 Speaker 1: that might have actually been a hangout spot, a place 858 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,520 Speaker 1: where everybody wants to smoke pot. I mean, who knows. 859 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,080 Speaker 1: You know, you park your car, you wander, you want, 860 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, the footpath that's along the railroad tracks there 861 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: actually just just barely to the east of where they 862 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,080 Speaker 1: where they ran their car through, it turns south and 863 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: an intersects Highway eighteen where that's what you can get 864 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,400 Speaker 1: onto it. So I mean that might have been a 865 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,040 Speaker 1: place people who come, like, you know, hang out and 866 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,520 Speaker 1: hang out on the footpath Danglar Lakes off the bridge 867 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: and look at the lake. I mean, of course, in January. 868 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,719 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I was gonna say like that. Okay, 869 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 1: that that sounds great and high summer, but not in 870 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 1: January for any any stretch of the imagination. Yeah, that's 871 00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,440 Speaker 1: why this theory is kind of hard to believe. I 872 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,040 Speaker 1: think they did return to the just not alone alive. Okay, 873 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,200 Speaker 1: So you're you then sort of want to go into 874 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,759 Speaker 1: the next theory. That's that's what I can tell you're 875 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,080 Speaker 1: gunning four, which is they did indeed return to the 876 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 1: scene of the accident, but they had died somewhere entirely different. 877 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,440 Speaker 1: They reanimated water over there. No, that's actually not it. No, no, no, no, 878 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: not not the zombie theory. There's no zombie theory in 879 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,239 Speaker 1: this one. I know people really like the idea that 880 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: they died somewhere else, and that is because one of 881 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,680 Speaker 1: the primary reasons is because of the amount of decomposition 882 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:38,400 Speaker 1: that Ruby's body experienced. It's it's a bit of a stretch. 883 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 1: It seems like it's too much for her to her 884 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,280 Speaker 1: body to have gone through having sat in the water 885 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:50,000 Speaker 1: at that site, plus especially compared to his, especially compared 886 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,279 Speaker 1: to his And then there's that whole possible sighting. But 887 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 1: I'm really going to discount the sighting and probably not 888 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,479 Speaker 1: talk about it again. I probably shouldn't be talking about 889 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:02,799 Speaker 1: as much as I am. Yes, that's exactly especially at 890 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 1: a crowded party. Exactly my point. But if we follow 891 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,560 Speaker 1: this idea, it could explain a couple of things. And 892 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:17,600 Speaker 1: the idea here is essentially that these two were abducted 893 00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: from the scene of the accident aliens by a mean person. Okay, 894 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 1: if we think about what Tracy said, she said Ruby 895 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: got out of the car, and why would she just 896 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,360 Speaker 1: shut the door behind her, Well, maybe she saw somebody 897 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,440 Speaker 1: she didn't know. What's going On, she kind of wanted 898 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:40,399 Speaker 1: to hide her and protect her. Maybe there's the whole 899 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,319 Speaker 1: set of keys that are in Arnold's pocket that they 900 00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,400 Speaker 1: can't quite figure out where those belong. If indeed that 901 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,279 Speaker 1: is true, maybe he picked those up from where they 902 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,800 Speaker 1: were being held. That would also explain why her shoes 903 00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,160 Speaker 1: and her glasses could be missing, and he might be 904 00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:01,000 Speaker 1: wearing different clothes. And it could explain the tuft of 905 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,640 Speaker 1: hair on the side of the road, because if somebody 906 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,080 Speaker 1: that told that dark suburban vehicle that we we talked 907 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,400 Speaker 1: about could be that was the person who did the 908 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,120 Speaker 1: dumping of said bodies, so they dumped the bodies, hair 909 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:19,840 Speaker 1: gets pulled off through that process. It's reaching, but it 910 00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,359 Speaker 1: kind of it ties a few things up kind of nicely. Yeah, 911 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,400 Speaker 1: I don't know that it's reaching as much as you 912 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,440 Speaker 1: wanted to be reaching. Well, I think I think. Okay, 913 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,320 Speaker 1: So here's why I feel like it's a real reach, Devon, 914 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:38,319 Speaker 1: is that to abduct people in this scenario is such 915 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:45,320 Speaker 1: an amazing crime of luck and opportunity at such a 916 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:51,080 Speaker 1: random location. Now, Okay, if indeed the accident was an accident, 917 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,400 Speaker 1: was it was Arnold's fault, I mean we could go 918 00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,839 Speaker 1: down the alley of Okay, well, what if what if 919 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,200 Speaker 1: this guy actually was sitting in the intersection with his 920 00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,960 Speaker 1: lights off and Arnold didn't see him, and as soon 921 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,560 Speaker 1: as Arnold started pulling forward, the guy hits the gas 922 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,080 Speaker 1: and pushes him off the road. Okay, well, then then 923 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,880 Speaker 1: there's a that's a little more the fairy is but 924 00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,959 Speaker 1: a skin that's a weird place. We've argued this before 925 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,879 Speaker 1: with the asia degree disappearance in that you know, right place, 926 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,279 Speaker 1: right time. It doesn't necessarily mean they were kidnapped. It 927 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,520 Speaker 1: could mean they were picked up by the wrong person. 928 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,160 Speaker 1: They thought they had a passed out seventeen year old 929 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:28,799 Speaker 1: girl in the back of their car that they were 930 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,520 Speaker 1: responsible for. You were maybe even dead right. They get 931 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,359 Speaker 1: out there like we gotta get help, and a car 932 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,800 Speaker 1: comes by and they flag it down and say, we 933 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:39,719 Speaker 1: just slipped our car. Can you give us a ride? 934 00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:41,960 Speaker 1: We need help. We need to get somewhere where we 935 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: can call someone, and the guy says or girl says, yeah, 936 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: no problem, and then oops, it turns out that person 937 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,080 Speaker 1: is an insane person and take him to a bar. 938 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,320 Speaker 1: I mean told me argued this before they saw the body. 939 00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,799 Speaker 1: I mean, we've argued this before. And I'm not saying 940 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,880 Speaker 1: that it's a great theory, but I am saying that 941 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,920 Speaker 1: them going somewhere else and then their bodies being returned 942 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 1: is a pretty good theory. Well, yeah, of course, the 943 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,120 Speaker 1: going somewhere else and being having their bodies dumped back 944 00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,920 Speaker 1: there by the killer. Yeah, And that's the problem I 945 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,840 Speaker 1: have with that is is it's better or safer and 946 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,439 Speaker 1: easier just to bury them wherever, you know, somewhere else 947 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,400 Speaker 1: or dumped the bodies somewhere else. And also, there were 948 00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:29,400 Speaker 1: no signs of murder right exposure. They died of exposure. 949 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,319 Speaker 1: So I was going to ask, and Joe, I think 950 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,239 Speaker 1: is leading in the right direction for me in terms 951 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,400 Speaker 1: of questions here is that. Okay, so they died of exposure. 952 00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,239 Speaker 1: So if this person is holding them, then how did 953 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,560 Speaker 1: they die of exposure? I mean that that could maybe 954 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:48,480 Speaker 1: explain why Let's say Ruby died a month earlier and 955 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,759 Speaker 1: then Arnold dies and so oh well, let's let's put 956 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,960 Speaker 1: them back where we got them, catch and release. Okay, 957 00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:01,040 Speaker 1: so what if somebody accidentally hit them with their car. 958 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that the EMMY would be able to 959 00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,600 Speaker 1: distinguish a person getting hit by a car versus a 960 00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,520 Speaker 1: person being in a car accident of that magnitude. Yes, 961 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,160 Speaker 1: bones bones break well, bones break in accidents like that too. 962 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:17,560 Speaker 1: But but the thing is, I've actually looked into accidents 963 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,759 Speaker 1: where people have been hit by a vehicle, and the 964 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:26,160 Speaker 1: sad fact is that your femur tended to shadow very 965 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:32,480 Speaker 1: very dramatical. I was thinking as possible that they just 966 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,680 Speaker 1: wandered off, got disoriented from hypothermia, maybe had injuries whatever, 967 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,640 Speaker 1: and one or both of them, you know, it's entirely possible, 968 00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,280 Speaker 1: giving the different positions of the bodies, that Arnold actually 969 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,000 Speaker 1: actually did fall through the ice, drowned and remained there 970 00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:49,239 Speaker 1: undetected the entire time, whereas Ruby wandered off somewhere and 971 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,879 Speaker 1: died of exposures somewhere else, or both of them maybe did. 972 00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I know that I had read 973 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,279 Speaker 1: an interview with the former sheriff, not the one that 974 00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,560 Speaker 1: you talked to, the former sheriff, and for his name 975 00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,520 Speaker 1: it's escaped, but his retirement. There was an article written 976 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:09,120 Speaker 1: about and this was the case that really really nagged 977 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,279 Speaker 1: in his mind a bit. And because one of the 978 00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,760 Speaker 1: reasons is, of course they searched the area they found 979 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,040 Speaker 1: no sign that they've gone through the as no bodies, 980 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,719 Speaker 1: no nothing. And he said he knew somebody who rode 981 00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,399 Speaker 1: his horse across that that land like in January, saw 982 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:27,240 Speaker 1: no signs. Yeah, and actually and and saw no signs 983 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,920 Speaker 1: of anybody's at all. And yet hear in Mark's, uh, 984 00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,279 Speaker 1: you know, Ruby's body shows up. Kind of interesting. But 985 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, the one thing that strikes me about this 986 00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,719 Speaker 1: area and then the reasons to move a body is 987 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,920 Speaker 1: the jurisdictional thing, and that is that they were just 988 00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,520 Speaker 1: inside the city limits of the town, and also by 989 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,920 Speaker 1: the wreck or where the wreck was. It might have 990 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,400 Speaker 1: just been pure coincidence, actually, but they were just inside 991 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,600 Speaker 1: the city limits of the lake, the town of Lake Andy's, 992 00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,240 Speaker 1: which is in the red zone. And so if somebody 993 00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,080 Speaker 1: from a white zone had this body of Rubies or 994 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,560 Speaker 1: maybe both of them that showed up and inconveniently died 995 00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:10,480 Speaker 1: of exposure, they find them along about march Um and 996 00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,359 Speaker 1: then figure out who they've got on their hands. Well, 997 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,239 Speaker 1: he might not have even they might not have even 998 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,200 Speaker 1: known who they were, although they might have figured out 999 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:18,880 Speaker 1: who they were and thought, hey, let's jump them back 1000 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,760 Speaker 1: to the scene of the accident or It could just 1001 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,040 Speaker 1: be that, hey, this is just over right there in 1002 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:25,800 Speaker 1: the red zone, let's just take the bodies over there, 1003 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,320 Speaker 1: dump them in that swell. It could have been a 1004 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,880 Speaker 1: remarkable coincidence that they dumped the bodies back into the 1005 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:36,480 Speaker 1: red zone under its different jurisdiction with more limited resources. Probably, 1006 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,520 Speaker 1: and again just share speculation on my part. But that's 1007 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,600 Speaker 1: one of the interesting things about this case is that 1008 00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,680 Speaker 1: the previous sheriff was sure the bodies were dumped there. 1009 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,600 Speaker 1: But there's but they died of exposure, no signs of violence. 1010 00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,600 Speaker 1: Why would you dump the bodies there? The only reason 1011 00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,920 Speaker 1: I can really think of it is just to avoid 1012 00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:59,240 Speaker 1: rather inconvenient investigation that's a little too close to home 1013 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,080 Speaker 1: for you, given that, you know, maybe maybe you're doing 1014 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,000 Speaker 1: something you shouldn't be doing on your land. Doesn't mean 1015 00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,360 Speaker 1: you kill these people. It's just sheer accident that they 1016 00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,200 Speaker 1: wandered onto your land die of exposure. But they kind 1017 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,560 Speaker 1: of pose a problem for you. So you get rid 1018 00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,800 Speaker 1: of the bodies, You take them across jurisdictional lines, and bam, 1019 00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,520 Speaker 1: you're golden. Assume you get okay, caught the bodies of course, 1020 00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,480 Speaker 1: well and and okay, so you've you've stitched. You've stitched 1021 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,120 Speaker 1: the whole jurisdictional bit back in in a way that 1022 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:33,400 Speaker 1: I hadn't considered it. But taking them to the same spot, 1023 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,280 Speaker 1: it's just that's that that's the sticking point for me. 1024 00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,440 Speaker 1: If you know what the red zone is, why the 1025 00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,800 Speaker 1: hell not drive them two miles up to the other 1026 00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,360 Speaker 1: edge of the lake and dump them there because it's 1027 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,880 Speaker 1: a red zone. And then everybody was saying, oh, well, 1028 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:55,760 Speaker 1: obviously those ding dong's walked across the lake and died there, 1029 00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,160 Speaker 1: and we didn't see them like you do. You see 1030 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,280 Speaker 1: where I'm coming. I see what you're saying, And it's 1031 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,200 Speaker 1: it's too convenient to take them back to the starting 1032 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:09,040 Speaker 1: point for that for me. But it just seems to 1033 00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,120 Speaker 1: me that that's the swell. It was a nice little 1034 00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,240 Speaker 1: place to dump the bodies because there's a lot of 1035 00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:17,240 Speaker 1: vegetation there, especially if the ice has melted and everything. 1036 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,360 Speaker 1: You know, they're not going to be readily. It's it's 1037 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,280 Speaker 1: a good easy place, right next to the road and 1038 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,360 Speaker 1: the road and the path just to the north of 1039 00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,080 Speaker 1: the road. Uh. And it could have been that they, 1040 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,040 Speaker 1: like I said, a coincidence. It could have been they 1041 00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,840 Speaker 1: recognized Arnold at least and just thought, hey, there, the 1042 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,680 Speaker 1: wrecked car was found in this spot. Let's just dump 1043 00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,200 Speaker 1: the bodies there and not worried about it. Now, you're 1044 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,360 Speaker 1: you're not saying so, I'm just gonna make sure that 1045 00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,200 Speaker 1: I understand this. You're not You're not implying that this 1046 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:43,840 Speaker 1: is a typical dumping ground. This is just a one 1047 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:49,080 Speaker 1: off thing. Yeah, just the one off. Just making sure. Yeah, Devin, 1048 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:53,920 Speaker 1: you had you have your own theory aliens. I like 1049 00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:59,920 Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, I thought you had a real theory. No, no, alien, 1050 01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,400 Speaker 1: I mean aliens is a real theory for this one 1051 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,760 Speaker 1: is interesting, I guess to like wrap it up. I 1052 01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:11,240 Speaker 1: do agree that it seems there's something to steal a 1053 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:16,160 Speaker 1: term hinky going on here. There's I just I have 1054 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,240 Speaker 1: a really hard time believing that their bodies were there 1055 01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,880 Speaker 1: the entire time. I have a really really hard time 1056 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,960 Speaker 1: that the believing that the search just conveniently missed them. 1057 01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: But I also have a hard time believing that, you know, 1058 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,720 Speaker 1: it was a crime of opportunity, then they got dumped 1059 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,160 Speaker 1: again or what happened. I don't know. How do you 1060 01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,480 Speaker 1: murder somebody through exposure? The only way I can think 1061 01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:38,480 Speaker 1: of it is you lock them in a barn, but 1062 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,920 Speaker 1: then they should be decomposing at the same rate they 1063 01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,160 Speaker 1: should be. Yeah, they should also have like all sorts 1064 01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,280 Speaker 1: of like like marks on their hands and where they 1065 01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,560 Speaker 1: were trying to clod out of their enclosure and stuff. 1066 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:49,760 Speaker 1: I mean, there should be. I just don't see any 1067 01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:51,720 Speaker 1: way to murder. You can tie them up and just 1068 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,760 Speaker 1: leave them outside, but then there's gonna be there's gonna be, yeah, 1069 01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:57,960 Speaker 1: Like that's how do you do how do you make 1070 01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,120 Speaker 1: that somebody just stay out in the cold with out 1071 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:02,360 Speaker 1: you know, I can't think of a way to do 1072 01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,160 Speaker 1: it short of locking somebody into one of those low 1073 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,840 Speaker 1: deep freeze freezers. I don't know, because somebody's gonna die 1074 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,000 Speaker 1: in a deep freeze like that very quickly. But they're 1075 01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,280 Speaker 1: gonna fight to the I mean there will still be 1076 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,040 Speaker 1: signs of them, but not nearly as much as locking 1077 01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,960 Speaker 1: them in a bar and tied up. I don't know. 1078 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,160 Speaker 1: So I'm out of theories. I really This is why 1079 01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,200 Speaker 1: I like this this case so much, because it's a 1080 01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:29,200 Speaker 1: kind of a toughie. If you have any thoughts about 1081 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,440 Speaker 1: this particular case or any of the other cases that 1082 01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:35,600 Speaker 1: we've ever talked about or you want to share story 1083 01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,560 Speaker 1: ideas or anything else you want to chat with us about, 1084 01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,120 Speaker 1: You're more than welcome to share that with us. You 1085 01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:44,960 Speaker 1: can email that to us our email addresses Thinking Sideways 1086 01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:49,640 Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. We are on social media obviously, 1087 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,480 Speaker 1: you can share things there as well, So we're on 1088 01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,680 Speaker 1: We've got the Facebook page and the Facebook group. We're 1089 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,640 Speaker 1: on Twitter, We've got the subreddit, so those are all 1090 01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,120 Speaker 1: avenues as well. Now for listening to the show, there's 1091 01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,240 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of ways to do that. You could 1092 01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,800 Speaker 1: do it through our website, Thinking sideways podcast dot com, 1093 01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,200 Speaker 1: which on the website, by the way, we will put 1094 01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,920 Speaker 1: some of the links for this particular episodes research. But 1095 01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,560 Speaker 1: you can always stream and download from the website. You 1096 01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,000 Speaker 1: can stream and download from iTunes, and if you're on iTunes, 1097 01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,600 Speaker 1: take the time to leave a comment and a rating. 1098 01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:27,400 Speaker 1: We do appreciate that. And if you're using a streaming service, 1099 01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,640 Speaker 1: whether it be Stitcher or Google Play or any of 1100 01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,280 Speaker 1: the other streaming apps that are out there, if they 1101 01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:38,000 Speaker 1: allow you to subscribe and rate, please do so. That 1102 01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,240 Speaker 1: is fantastic because that's, like I said, how people find us. 1103 01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,520 Speaker 1: We have a couple of different other things that are 1104 01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,640 Speaker 1: on or actually, I guess it's just one other thing 1105 01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,480 Speaker 1: that's on our website, which is merchandise. So we have 1106 01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,280 Speaker 1: through Zazzle and Red Bubble, we have a couple of 1107 01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:57,040 Speaker 1: different types of merchandise. We've got shirts, T shirts, mugs, 1108 01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,680 Speaker 1: had a pull bunch of shirts going out recently, haven't 1109 01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,840 Speaker 1: at least and you hear the T shirt, that's cool. 1110 01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:03,919 Speaker 1: You know. Actually, I hate to admit it, I don't 1111 01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,320 Speaker 1: have one yet myself. I probably had to get one. Well, 1112 01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,160 Speaker 1: I thought about buying you one for Christmas, and then 1113 01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,600 Speaker 1: I decided I didn't want to and I got to that. 1114 01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:16,080 Speaker 1: I know, yeah, no, I know they're actually expensive. But 1115 01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,439 Speaker 1: so there's a whole bunch of different kind of merch there. 1116 01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,320 Speaker 1: Go to the website on the right hand side. You 1117 01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:25,800 Speaker 1: will see the links for that. That's all I've got 1118 01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,200 Speaker 1: to share today. You guys, got any other final parting 1119 01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,040 Speaker 1: thoughts or shots. Just if you're the person or persons 1120 01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,840 Speaker 1: who put those bodies back, we'd like to hear from 1121 01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,040 Speaker 1: you because I'm pretty sure the statute of limitations has expired, 1122 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,960 Speaker 1: and so I think you really don't need to worry 1123 01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:44,440 Speaker 1: about getting arrested. So just you know, send us an email. 1124 01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,960 Speaker 1: We'd like to know what happened. I just want to 1125 01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,320 Speaker 1: say we'll talk to you next week. And by the way, 1126 01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,880 Speaker 1: thanks to the sheriff for actually talking to me. I 1127 01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,360 Speaker 1: know that's nice. I'm sure it was aliens. Guys,