1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Amy roboc and TJ. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. Hey, everyone, 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: Elisa Donovan here back with a new episode of Killer Thriller. Today, 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: we are talking about a very familiar title, one that 5 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 2: to say I am obsessed with would be an understatement. 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: It was known as the Trial of. 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: The Century, the People versus oj Simpson American crime story. 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: But we are quickly moving beyond the courtroom and into 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: the private spaces where fear, control and violence lived long 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: before the quote Trial of the Century began. Our guest 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 2: today is Keith Slamsowitch. Keith intimately knows the people involved. 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: His new book, Stocked, tells a deeply personal account of 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: his relationship with Nicole Brown Simpson and the years he 14 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: says they were both targeted by Ojson Simpson. Keith wasn't 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: a witness in the courtroom. He was a witness in 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 2: real life, seeing behavior he now describes as stalking and intimidation, 17 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: and living with the belief that he could have been 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 2: killed himself. For more than three decades, Keith stayed quiet. 19 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: Now he's speaking publicly for the first time about what 20 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: he saw, what he felt, and what still lingers from 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: the crime, the trial, and its aftermath. 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you so much for being here. 23 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 3: Keith, Thank you for having me. 24 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: Lisa. 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: I want to acknowledge straight away that this is really 26 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 2: the first time that I'm actually speaking with someone who 27 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: was so intimately involved with and connected to the main 28 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: human beings in this devastating case. So I know it's 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: been thirty years since Nicole was murdered, but I want 30 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: to just say I'm sorry for that loss, and I'm 31 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: sorry for what I'm sure has been a painful time. 32 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 3: Thank you for that. 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: So let's just start. 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: You know, you are so close to her, Can you 35 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: just tell us the who was Nicole? And what was 36 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: your relationship like with her? 37 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 3: Well started off when I met her. I didn't know 38 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 3: who she was. I just was smitten by her instantly 39 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 3: when I met her and Aspen, Colorado, and it just 40 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 3: sort of snowballed from there. We spent some time together 41 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 3: that weekend, and I went to Los Angeles several months later, 42 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: and we picked up where we sort of left off 43 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 3: in Aspen, and we started to get to know each 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 3: other better and went through the dating process as people do, 45 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: and I started to learn more about her what a 46 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 3: incredible person that she was. She was a fantastic mother. 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: She was just so much fun to be around. What 48 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 3: people don't really know about Nicole is she really only 49 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 3: had about an eighteen month window where she wasn't totally 50 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: under OJ's control, so to speak. Right, they met when 51 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: she was eighteen. He sort of kept her under wraps 52 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 3: for those years until she separated and went through the 53 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 3: divorce process. Is when I met her, and she was 54 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: kind of experiencing becoming a woman, you know, getting things 55 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 3: that most people do in their twenties as they're growing 56 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 3: and maturing, and she was kind of doing that a 57 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 3: little later in life because she had a little freedom. 58 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 3: So I was just I was so excited to be 59 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 3: there for that portion of her life. And I'm just 60 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 3: fortunate that I got to know her during that period. 61 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: But she was just a phenomenal person. 62 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: Was she living on Bundy at the time that you 63 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: guys dated. 64 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 3: She was living on gret And Agree, Greta Agree. I 65 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: was skiing one day in Aspen, Colorado, and I had 66 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 3: numerous restaurants. I had two and Aspen and three in 67 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: Los Angeles. In Los Angeles, obviously the two Messalunas Messaluna, 68 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: brond woman worked and one in Beverly Hills. And I 69 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 3: also had the Monkey Bar, which was a pretty famous 70 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 3: place back in the nineties. Yes, we'll remember it. 71 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: I remember it well. 72 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: I had Masaluna and Aspen, Colorado. What turns out, Messaluna 73 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: was Nicole's favorite restaurant and she lived right down the 74 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: street from it. So when I saw her the first 75 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: day and Aspen on the ski deck, not knowing who 76 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 3: she was, just knowing that she was the most beautiful 77 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 3: person I had ever seen, so I approached her. I 78 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 3: just walked right up to her and sort of wedged 79 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 3: my way into their conversation. Found an inn when I 80 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 3: heard me mentioned and started to talk to her, and 81 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 3: we got to know each other a little bit. Then 82 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 3: I invited her and for dinner that night, but she 83 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 3: was living. She just left oj and she told me 84 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 3: that afternoon that she had come to Aspen to get 85 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 3: away from her abusive husband. She didn't mention who he was. Wow, 86 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 3: the subject kind of came up because I'm a golfer, 87 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: and we talked about golf a little bit. She said 88 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 3: her husband was a member of Riviera Country Club, which 89 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: most people know out there it's pretty exclusive, so I 90 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: know most of the members, so I know who is he? 91 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 3: Maybe I might know him? She goes, oh, you know him. 92 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 3: I didn't mention his name till later that evening, after 93 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 3: we went out dancing and aspen and tried to get 94 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 3: to know each other a little bit and hung out, 95 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 3: and it came up through the course of the evening 96 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 3: only because a friend of mine who worked at the 97 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 3: lounge that we were in, came up to me when 98 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: Nick was on the dance floor and I'll refer to 99 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 3: her as Nick because that's what I always called her, 100 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 3: and said, that's that's OJ's wife. And I was like, oh, 101 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 3: there you go, you know, so wow. And when she 102 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: came back to the table, I just sort of asked 103 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: her about it, and she went, well, now you know, 104 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 3: cats out of the bed. But I learned more about 105 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 3: their relationship obviously as our relationship moved forward and the 106 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 3: stalking incidents started. 107 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: Right right, So she I love that you didn't know 108 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: who she was at first, and I'm sure that was 109 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: probably quite refreshing to her, you know, to have someone 110 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: that didn't that was approaching her simply because of the 111 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: you know, connection you felt to her. Rather than him. 112 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 2: Were you so, did she tell you straight away? It 113 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: sounds like she did straight away say that he was 114 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 2: abusive to her. 115 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: And did it feel to you like dangerous? 116 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 2: You know, I know this is that tragic thing of 117 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 2: people who are in these sorts of relationships. Sometimes you 118 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 2: just don't know how extreme it really could be or 119 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 2: can be. And did you feel like she was afraid 120 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: at all? 121 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 3: Initially she mentioned that he was an abusive husband, ex husband. 122 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 3: She referred to him as ex husband because they were 123 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 3: no force process, but she told me he was abusive 124 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 3: and that's why she had come to Aspen to get 125 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: away from him. She had brought the children with her. 126 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 3: She just needed kind of an escape to clear her head. 127 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,119 Speaker 3: And she was in the process of moving into the 128 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 3: Gretna Greenhouse out of Rockingham, the famous house that we 129 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 3: owned them where they lived together. But when I got 130 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 3: to Los Angeles two months later and we sort of 131 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 3: picked up the dating process, went through all the stages 132 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 3: that people go through as they're getting to know each other. 133 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 3: The stalking began instantly from oj So the second night 134 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 3: the first well, the first night I was in town, 135 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: I went to visit her at her house and She 136 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 3: started to tell me a little bit about their past, 137 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,559 Speaker 3: not too much in depth, but it was weird because 138 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: the phone kept ringing. You know. We went out and 139 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 3: got in the jikuzi and we were just talking and 140 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 3: the phone started ringing incessantly and she just sort of went, there, 141 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 3: he is right, So we kind of blew that off. 142 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 3: The second night I was in town, she came to 143 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: one of my restaurants with some lady friends. We had 144 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 3: a big event on Tuesday nights at massaloona Beverly Hills. 145 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 3: It was sort of a celebrity thing, and her girlfriends 146 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 3: had heard about it, so I invited her to bring 147 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 3: her her group down and grab a table, and we 148 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 3: were hanging out having a good time, and almost immediately 149 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 3: OJ showed up, you know, and you could tell by 150 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 3: the tone the way he zipped in the valet at 151 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: a high rate of speed and screeched on his brakes 152 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: and jumped out of the car, came directly in, right 153 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: up to our table and slammed his hands down and 154 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 3: stared me in the eyes and said, I'm O J. 155 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: Simpson and she's still my wife. So that was my 156 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 3: first face to face interaction. 157 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah. 158 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 3: And then she started to open up to me as 159 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 3: more and more events of stalking took place, started to 160 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: tell me more and more in depth about things she 161 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 3: had endured through her relationship with oj. 162 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: He I would imagine that he just was following her 163 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: all the time. 164 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 3: Well, he showed up all the time. So we deduced 165 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: one of two things. Either he was following or spying 166 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 3: on us, or somebody else doing it right, But there 167 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 3: was a third caveat to the whole thing. We were 168 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 3: convinced after a period of time that one of her 169 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 3: inner circle was divulging. Oh right, actually, and I talk 170 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 3: about this in the book, and I actually mentioned the 171 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 3: name of the person. But we were convinced after several 172 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 3: of these events, we narrowed it down to one person, 173 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 3: and we sort of set that person up really yeah, 174 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 3: that we were going, you're going. 175 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: To tell us who that is. You're not going to 176 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: tell us who that is. 177 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: I'll tell you what their initial the initials one of 178 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: her friends, one of her friends who was involved in 179 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 3: that circle but was also friends with oj. So we 180 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 3: were convinced that she was feeding Oja information about where 181 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 3: we were at on certain occasions. There were other occasions 182 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: where we know we were being basically just spied on. 183 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 3: We would be hanging out at the house watching a 184 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 3: movie for hours on end, and the minute we turned 185 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 3: off the TV, the phone would start ringing. So someone 186 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 3: was watching us at Nicoles. 187 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: That is just diabolical. 188 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 3: Well, and then there's obviously the very famous incident where 189 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 3: he spied on us having sex through the window of 190 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 3: her house. 191 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: Please tell us how I can't imagine what that would 192 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: feel like. I mean, did you guys, like, what did 193 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 2: you do when you realized. 194 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 3: Well, it was a whole sequence of events because it 195 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 3: was the first time that we had made love and 196 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 3: it was very special. So it was several weeks into 197 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 3: our relationship. We were taking things kind of slow. We 198 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 3: were dating the process. Nick was very cognizant of, you know, 199 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 3: her children and her children's feelings, and she had not 200 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 3: been with another man. She had been since she was 201 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 3: eighteen years old, so to her was it was a 202 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 3: strange feeling. She was trying to experience those emotions. Again. Sure, 203 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 3: we were taking us slow, and I was in no hurry. 204 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 3: I was madly in love from the men and I 205 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 3: met her. So probably the third or so incident of 206 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: stalking fourth maybe. We decided to go out one night 207 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 3: to a comedy club in Los Angeles and a friend 208 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 3: of hers and Ojay's was performing. Byron Allen was doing 209 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 3: at the time, and he was performing with several other comedians. 210 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 3: So Nick called Byron and said, Keith and I'd like 211 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 3: to come by. He had a table waiting for us. 212 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 3: It was awesome. We had a great time, and after 213 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: the show we decided to go to Roxbury do some dancing. 214 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 3: We were in West Hollywood, you know the routine. You're 215 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 3: from the area. We stopped by Roxbury and we weren't 216 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 3: there very long, and Nick turned to me and said, 217 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 3: he's here, and we just we had been through this 218 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 3: numerous times at restaurants and bars, and they had supposedly 219 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 3: had this agreement handshake agreement that if the two of 220 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 3: them ended up in the same place together a restaurant, bar, 221 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 3: or whatever it mean, the first person there basically had 222 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 3: the right to stay, second person to show up should 223 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 3: do the right thing and leave and not make the 224 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 3: other one uncomfortable. He never abided by that, obviously, so 225 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 3: when we realized he was at Roxbury, we sort of 226 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 3: knew that it was by design. So Nick just looked 227 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 3: at me and said, you know, sugar head and exhaled 228 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 3: like I just said, what do you want to do? 229 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 3: Let's just get out of here, and I said, I agree. 230 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 3: Let's we had a fun night, you know, I said, 231 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 3: let us go home. So we jumped in the car. 232 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 3: We had a down sunset back to the Gretona Green house. 233 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 3: We went inside, put on some music, lit a few candles, 234 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: opened a bottle of wine, and things happened, you know. 235 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: So he followed you guys from Roxbury. 236 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 3: We didn't know it at the time. So we made love 237 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 3: for the first time and it was spectacular, and I 238 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: talked about it in the book. And I stayed till 239 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: about three o'clock in the morning or so, because we 240 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 3: had this agreement that I would never stay over the children. 241 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 3: She did not want her children to wake up in 242 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: the morning and have another man in the house. That's 243 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 3: just how she looked at it, and I understood completely. 244 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 3: So that's the latest I had ever stayed over there, 245 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 3: and it was because of the circumstances. So about three 246 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: issue or so, I walked out of her house. My 247 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 3: car was parked on the street in Brentwood on Bretona Green. 248 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 3: Really quiet neighbor. Yeah, and I'm going to describe the 249 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 3: sequence events to you because it correlates directly with the 250 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 3: night of the murders on Bundy. As I left the house, 251 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 3: you had to exit the door, go down a long, 252 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 3: dark sidewalk, through a courtyard, through a gate, through an 253 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 3: iron gate, around another sidewalk, down a driveway to where 254 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 3: my car was parked. And I remember it was so 255 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 3: eerie that night, maybe because of what we had just 256 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 3: been through. It was special to me, but my senses 257 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 3: were really heightened at that time, and I just remember 258 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 3: thinking to myself, it's just so silent and eerie out here. 259 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 3: But I was happy because what it just transpired. So 260 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 3: got in the car drove home, thinking not much of it. 261 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 3: Next day, I showed up at Nick's house just to 262 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 3: come over and say hi, as I usually did, and 263 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 3: the kids were swimming in the pool with the nanny 264 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 3: and Nick was out by the pool, so I came 265 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 3: around the back of the house, and you know, we 266 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: both kind of had smiles on our face. We were 267 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 3: a little giddy from the night before, knowing what it transpired. 268 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 3: And she mentioned something about her neck was kind of sore, 269 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 3: so I said, just go in the backroom right here, 270 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: and I'll give you a sort of quick massage, you know, 271 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 3: see if I can straighten it out for you. So 272 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 3: we walked into a back bedroom where there were French 273 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 3: doors and long curtains, and it was a bedroom that 274 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: was never used. It was a guest room that, oddly enough, 275 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 3: I ended up moving into months later when I lived 276 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 3: in Nicole's house as a friend after our dating relationship. 277 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: But anyway, back to the original story. So as we're 278 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 3: sitting on the bed and I'm sitting on top of 279 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 3: the coal, within seconds, right through the door walks out Ja. 280 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 3: He didn't come to the front door, didn't ring the 281 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 3: bell the back door, knocking the door. He came around 282 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 3: the side of the house through a little skinny sidewalk 283 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: around the back, and came straight in the bedroom we 284 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 3: were in, so he knew where we were at. And now, 285 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 3: my god, I look up and here's this, you know, 286 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:04,239 Speaker 3: ginormous human being. O. J. Simpson, famous football player, ex wife, jealous, 287 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: maniacal man, knowing the history of the abuse that she 288 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 3: had told me as fire stalking events that we had 289 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 3: standing right in front of us, angry, and I could 290 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 3: see his eyes were black as coal. He was the 291 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: veins were coming out of his head, and he was, Oh, 292 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 3: look at you guys, Look at you guys. Look what 293 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 3: you're doing. And he mentioned he had watched us and 294 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 3: it was so quick. 295 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: Oh he told you. 296 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 3: Well, I didn't pick up on it right away. I 297 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 3: sort of jumped up and I stood in between the cole. 298 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 3: We both sort of got up. I stood in between 299 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: the two of them, and he was, I want to 300 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 3: talk to you alone. I want to talk to you 301 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 3: alone to Nicole, and I stood my ground. I wouldn't 302 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 3: have any part of it. And I said, I'm not 303 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 3: leaving you alone with her. I don't trust you. And 304 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 3: then I saw a different side of a man that 305 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 3: I saw everything change. His face got crazy. He didn't 306 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: like that, and Nick had told me later, Keith, you 307 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 3: don't know, o Ja Simpson. There's two the one the 308 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 3: public sees and the one only I see. Don't ever 309 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 3: be left alone with that one. So all these things 310 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 3: are going through my Oh God, and it's in the 311 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 3: heat of the moment. So I refused to leave the room, 312 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 3: and that was making him angrier and angrier and angrier. 313 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 3: So eventually Nick, who was standing behind me, we were 314 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 3: holding hands. She said, Keith, he's never He's not going 315 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 3: to leave until he has a couple of minutes with 316 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 3: me alone. She said, please just stay close to the door, 317 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: but I need to be alone with him for a second. 318 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 3: So I did. I left the bedroom shut the door, 319 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 3: stood in the kitchen, which was very close by, so 320 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: I could hear anything happened, because I was prepared to 321 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 3: go right back in, and I could hear him yelling 322 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 3: and reading her the Riot Act, but I wasn't really 323 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 3: focusing on the words. So I was concerned. I was 324 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 3: wondered about her safety. I was consumed about my own 325 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 3: safety was going to happen. After five, six, seven minutes whatever, 326 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 3: they came out of the bedroom together and he was 327 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 3: in front of her, and he walked right up to 328 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 3: me in the kitchen, and he extended his hand with 329 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 3: this sort of sarcastic. 330 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: Gesture, God, oh God, as if to. 331 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 3: Shake my hand, which I did reach out and shake 332 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 3: his hand. He said, you know, I'm I'm oj Simpson. 333 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 3: I'm a very proud man, and disappeared as fast as this. 334 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 3: And as he went out the door, Nick looked at me, 335 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: and she was white as a ghost, and she went Keith, 336 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 3: Oh my god, he watched everything we did last night. 337 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 3: He saw as he watched everything we did, and we 338 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: both just went, oh my god. So we immediately yeah, 339 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: we immediately started looking at the windows, like how, where? What? 340 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 3: How could that have even transpired? But at that moment 341 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 3: we knew things would never be the same. We knew 342 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 3: that there was there was no boundaries. Someone was willing 343 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: to do that. 344 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, it's it's truly diabolicle. 345 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 3: And getting back to what I mentioned at the beginning 346 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 3: of the story is that walk I took the night 347 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 3: before at three o'clock in the morning down that if 348 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 3: you just re examine the crime scene at Bundy YASSNDO. 349 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 3: He came through a back iron gate, walked down a 350 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 3: long dark sidewalk along the side of the house, came 351 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 3: around the corner to the front of the room window yep, 352 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 3: and was either looking in when she came out or 353 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 3: was waiting for her to come out. But so eerily similar. 354 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 3: And that's where the title of the book, that's where 355 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 3: I got it. The book is all stalked. It could 356 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 3: have been me. So when I saw what he was 357 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 3: capable of after the murders, instantly all those things went 358 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 3: through my mind. 359 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: Where were you when you heard that she was murdered? 360 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: And ron? 361 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 3: I was in Atlanta. I had left Messaluna Restaurant Group, 362 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 3: all the restaurants that I was in control of for 363 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 3: all those years. I was branching out of my own 364 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 3: to do my own thing, and I was in Atlanta 365 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 3: looking for locations. I hadn't spoke to Nicole, and we 366 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: can discuss this a little bit later as we get 367 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 3: the timeline. But yeah, both to her in six months 368 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 3: because of OJ, that famous nine one one call you 369 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 3: here in October of ninety three. Yes, kicking in the 370 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 3: door and screaming. That caused us to not speak again 371 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 3: because because. 372 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 2: She was afraid or because does she just go say. 373 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 3: The whole premise of that night was because of me, 374 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 3: and he took it out on her. He had my 375 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 3: name had been brought up by somebody else on a 376 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 3: movie set, a girl who knew me, who was trying 377 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 3: to get back at me for some crazy reason. So 378 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 3: she thought she fell OJ that I was with his wife, 379 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 3: and she knew that would get to him because she 380 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 3: was jealous of OJ. Don't even want to go into 381 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 3: that part of the story. Yeah, OJ went home and 382 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 3: took it down on Nicole. So he bust into her house, 383 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 3: threatening you can hear it. 384 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: Yes, it's a horrific. 385 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 3: Ripped up her phone book, tore up all the pictures 386 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 3: of us. I didn't know about those nine one one 387 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 3: calls until the trial, and they weren't at least they 388 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 3: weren't published. 389 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: She didn't tell you, Nicole, didn't. 390 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 3: Tell you tell me about the nine one one call. 391 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 3: Because what happened was the day that this happened. I 392 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 3: came home from doing something and asked, when I was 393 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 3: running errands, and I see my voicemail on my home 394 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 3: answering machine if you remember those, Yeah, they the button 395 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 3: nay O J. Simpson calling me from the set of 396 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 3: the movie with this unnamed girl. Hey, Keith, it's your 397 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 3: old pell OJ here, you know, on my home answering machine. 398 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 3: So my immediate reaction was, oh, Nick, Nick, because I 399 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 3: know how he felt about me, and Nick and I 400 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 3: had long conversations about it, and they were in the 401 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 3: middle of trying their reconciliation that ended up costing her 402 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: her life. So we had not been speaking very frequently 403 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 3: as we had in the past. We talked every day 404 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 3: in the past, so they. 405 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: Were trying to reconcile their marriage. 406 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 3: They were trying to that started in on Easter of 407 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 3: ninety three, they decide. He showed up at her parents' 408 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 3: house unexpected, uninvited, because he knew she'd be there with 409 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 3: the kids. So he cornered her down at and gave 410 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 3: her the whole I've been. I've been, you know, I've 411 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 3: been to therapy, I've changed. Let me show you who 412 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 3: I am. I really want you back. Let's go away 413 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 3: for the weekend. So it basically, you know, whisked her 414 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: away to Mexico. The parents watched the kids and got 415 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 3: her alone down there. She called me as soon as 416 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 3: they got back, and it was kind of a weird 417 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 3: conversation because I had talked to her in two or 418 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 3: three days, which is very unusual, right where you've been. 419 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 3: And she's like, I went to Mexico. And I was like, wow, 420 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 3: really with who? And she's like, You're not gonna believe it. 421 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 3: And I started guessing a few names, and he was 422 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 3: last on the list. I would have guessed, but she 423 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 3: told me after I ran out of guess this, she 424 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 3: goes I went with OJ and I went, WHOA wait? 425 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 3: What she told me how that happened, how he showed 426 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: up the house and convinced her to go away, and 427 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 3: she said, honestly, Keith, it wasn't that bad. We actually 428 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 3: had a good time together. And he's told me all 429 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 3: these things. You know, he's working towards and he's changed, 430 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 3: and he wants to try a reconciliation. So that was 431 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 3: an Easter of ninety three, and at that time Nick 432 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 3: and I were just best friends. We weren't in a 433 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 3: romnic relationship anymore because of OJ. 434 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 435 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 3: So several months later, in October is when the nine 436 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 3: to one one tapes happened. So they're reconciling from Easter 437 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 3: to October. October is when the nine one one tape 438 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 3: blows up. And like I said, I didn't know about it. 439 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 3: I knew about the voicemail my machine. So I called 440 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 3: Nick right away, can't get hold her. So I'm like, oh, 441 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 3: this isn't going to be good. Knowing elog feels all. 442 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 3: So about three days later, finally I got a call 443 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 3: back from Nicole and I could hear her voice that 444 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 3: something was wrong, and I said, are you okay, babe? 445 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 3: Are you okay? And she said, no, I'm not and 446 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 3: I said, oh my god, I said, I had a voicemail. 447 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 3: I knew something wasn't going to be right. And she, 448 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 3: you know, she was like, Keith, it was it was bad. 449 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 3: It was really bad. She didn't tell me it was 450 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 3: a nine to one one call, but she said, I, 451 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 3: you know, Keith, I'm really trying to follow through with this. 452 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 3: I made the commitment to try this reconciliation. You know 453 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: that all I ever really wanted was my family unit together, 454 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 3: you know, the father of the kids, the whole thing. 455 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 3: That's my dream. And I really got to give it 456 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 3: one hundred percent. And you know how he feels about you, 457 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 3: and you know that you make him crazy. I mean, 458 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 3: these were exact words. And she said, this is the 459 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 3: hardest thing I've had to say, but we just can't 460 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 3: talk anymore. And I said, oh, oh my god. It 461 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 3: broke my heart. And we spoke another couple of seconds 462 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 3: and I said, Nick, you know, I'm so sorry about 463 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 3: what has happened, and I love you. And we hung 464 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 3: up the phone and the next time I saw her, 465 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 3: I was holding her casket at her funeral. 466 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: Ah, this is just heartbreaking, because this is the behavior. 467 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 3: When I hear something more heartbreaking at the funeral, not 468 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 3: having spoken to her in six to eight months, whatever 469 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 3: period of time that was, still loving her, always having 470 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 3: a place in my heart for thinking that they were 471 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 3: going through the reconciliation process still because I wasn't in communication. 472 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 3: Then the murder happens. The family contacts me right away. 473 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 3: They asked me to be a pallbearer. I fly out 474 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 3: from Atlanta immediately. I don't see the family immediately because 475 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 3: they're in Orange County. I fly into LA the night 476 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 3: before the funeral. It happened so quickly, so the first 477 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 3: time I had face to face interaction was at the 478 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: funeral when they got out of a limo and came 479 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 3: over to hug me and kiss me. And the first 480 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 3: thing they told me was they were talking about me 481 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 3: that night at dinner that Nick had said she was 482 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 3: going to surprise me that she was happy she was 483 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 3: finally free of OJ And I believe me, neither her 484 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 3: mother or sister said something about what about Keith? What 485 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 3: happened to Keith? And she's like, I'm going to surprise him. 486 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 3: And I didn't know if that meant I was going 487 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 3: to get a phone call. 488 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 2: Oh, you're speaking about the night at Massaluna when they 489 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 2: left the night of the. 490 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 3: Visures murdered, so she was told, and two hours later 491 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 3: she was dead at OJ's hands. So imagine my motions 492 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 3: holding the person I love and still standing next to 493 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 3: the person who killed her because I'm still a free man. 494 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 3: At the funeral. The bronco chase was the next day. 495 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 2: Oh that's right, the timelight, So sorry. The bronco chase 496 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 2: was the day after the funeral. 497 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 3: I'm holding the casket of the woman I love. Her 498 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 3: family's telling me I was on her mind the night 499 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 3: she was murdered, after not seeing or talking to me 500 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 3: for months, standing next to the guy who So if 501 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 3: you can imagine for a minute, I try to describe 502 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 3: it the best way I can, and in the book, 503 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 3: hopefully the readers grasp that. I wrote the book in 504 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 3: a first person narrative, so you really feel like you're 505 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,959 Speaker 3: going through it with me. You're walking through the steps 506 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 3: and the emotions with me. I wanted to do it 507 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 3: that way because I wanted people to understand how gut 508 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 3: wrenching that was. 509 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, to be immediate in the moment. 510 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, when you heard that she was killed, did you 511 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 2: think it was OJ? 512 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: Did you immediately think it was him. 513 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 3: The minute I heard it was a murder. You know, 514 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 3: I heard the wife of Nicole, the wife of O. J. 515 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 3: Simpson found dead initially with an I identified male. And 516 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 3: that's another tie into the title. It could have been me. 517 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 3: Everyone want it was me? About our dating history? Oh wow, 518 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 3: this was kind of pre cell phone. 519 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 2: Yes, people didn't have so much access to one another 520 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: all the time. 521 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, no instant communication. So everybody's thought process. And my 522 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 3: cousin who wrote the forward to the book, talks about 523 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 3: his instantaneous reaction was it's Keith. Oh my god, it's Keith. 524 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 3: Because Ron wasn't identified immediately. So shortly after, as the 525 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 3: news broadcast started to become a little tighter, and I 526 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 3: found out that it was indeed a murder, and that 527 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 3: Ron Goldman was one of my employees. 528 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: Yes, did you know Ron? 529 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 3: Ron was hired right after post everybody else at Meslina 530 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 3: Brent would were my employees that I had hired a 531 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 3: new stew and got it, Bellow and all those people. 532 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 3: So I just didn't have the chance to cross paths 533 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 3: with Ron. I knew instantly at that point when I 534 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 3: discovered it was a murder, it was a violent crime. 535 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 3: I knew instantly that it was either him or someone 536 00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 3: he had put up to that he was responsible. 537 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: Did her did her family think that at that point 538 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: as well? 539 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 3: Well? The funeral that discussion. We didn't talk about it at 540 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 3: the funeral. The funeral was about Nick. Obviously, there was 541 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 3: the mass and then the burial, so it was two parts, 542 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 3: so several hours at the church in Brentwood, long drive 543 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 3: down to the cemetery in Orange County, so everybody was 544 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 3: talking a little bit, but we were We didn't talk 545 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 3: much at the mass. In the cars going down there, 546 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 3: we talked to whoever we were in the cars with. 547 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 3: We got to the to the burial, same thing, it 548 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 3: was all about Nick. We went back to the Brown's house, 549 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 3: the close uh family and friends that were invited back 550 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 3: to Nick's childhood home where the Brown family lived. Then 551 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 3: you started to hear the actual discussions. Prior to that, 552 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,479 Speaker 3: I was driving my car with my best friend Ron Hardy, 553 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 3: who was also a pall bearer who worked for me 554 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 3: at the Monkey Bar, and Robin Greer, who was one 555 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 3: of Nick's best friends. So we were in a car together, 556 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 3: so we obviously talked about it the time, but we 557 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 3: were with Chris and Bruce at the burial. 558 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: Uh oh yeah. 559 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 2: I feel like they were pretty clear that they thought 560 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 2: he was guilty. 561 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 3: They were with Fay. Faye was in the limo with them. 562 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 3: So they turned to me at the funeral at the 563 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 3: burial and said, let's stop, you know, at a burger 564 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 3: joint or something to get something on the way back 565 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 3: to Nick's house. It had been a long day. We 566 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 3: were going back there, like I said, with the close 567 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 3: family and friends, but we just stopped at a Jack 568 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 3: in the Box of all places. So Fay was with them, 569 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 3: and it was myself correct, Chris, Chris, and Bruce correct. 570 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 3: As we were sitting in Jack in the Box, the 571 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 3: subject was obviously starting to come up, and we were 572 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: all looking at each other and we were saying the 573 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 3: things you say, like you think he did it, yeah, 574 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 3: and everybody was in agreement at that point. I got 575 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 3: back to the Browns house after the Jack in the Box, 576 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 3: I had to pull. I pulled Judita and one of 577 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 3: the sisters I believed, many aside to a bedroom. At 578 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 3: some point we were drinking tequila in honor of Nick. 579 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 3: That was her thing, and everybody was trying to tell stories. 580 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 3: You know, fun stuff, just to you know, try to 581 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 3: break the awkwardness of it. But I felt so compelled 582 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 3: because I knew what I knew. I knew the information 583 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 3: and all the stuff we'd gone through, and a lot 584 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 3: of stuff Nicole had told me that I don't think 585 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 3: she might have even mentioned to her parents, certainly not 586 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 3: her friends. She wasn't proud of the beatings. She wasn't 587 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 3: proud of the way she let Oh Jay do some 588 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 3: of that stuff. She told me, because we lived it, 589 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:38,959 Speaker 3: it was a shared experience. 590 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 2: And also probably with the family, you know, there's a 591 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 2: certain amount of they you have to try to hide things, 592 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: right because they would probably immediately be saying you've got 593 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: to go, You've got to leave, and she's trying to 594 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: keep the family unit together. Is such a complex. It's 595 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: just heartbreaking because this is so typical female of yeah, 596 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 2: abusive behavior. It's just it's just devastating, and I feel like, 597 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 2: I mean, we we're going to get into talking about 598 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 2: the series as well, but one of the things that 599 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you about that is do you 600 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 2: feel like they you know, there's so much about the 601 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 2: perpetrator in this series of people versus OJ and I 602 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 2: do you feel like they really even give a sense 603 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: of Nicole in this show. It feels like she's sort 604 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 2: of secondary to the entire thing. 605 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 3: They barely mention her name, right, and certainly Ron's I mean, yes, well, 606 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 3: poor Ron. I mean I think Ron, in my book, 607 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 3: I thank him for standing up for Nicole, for he's 608 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 3: sacrificing his life, Yeah, to try to protect her. It's 609 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 3: obvious to me anyway. I looked at the evidence. I 610 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 3: looked at what happened that Ron did his best and 611 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 3: came into a you know, a crazy situation but tried 612 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 3: to protect Nick and lost is life because of it. 613 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 3: Nobody really gives him credit for that, But yeah, you're 614 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 3: one hundred percent right. They really didn't. They didn't cover 615 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 3: it was all about oj you know, yes. 616 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 2: Which I mean I understand from a certain you know perspective, 617 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:21,239 Speaker 2: that is the trial itself. But I feel like this 618 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 2: is this is a problem with a lot of these 619 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 2: stories when they are when they become TV series and movies, 620 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 2: that it's all about the perpetrator and the bad guys, 621 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: and like the victims themselves, which are usually women, are 622 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 2: not We just don't get a full picture of who 623 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 2: they are. And I'm I'm so grateful to you for 624 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 2: sharing that with us, but for writing this book to 625 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: really give people a sense of who she is and 626 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 2: who she was. 627 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 3: I really wanted people to see Sidonnicle. I didn't just 628 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 3: write it to sensationalize the stalking and the behavior of OJ, 629 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 3: because a lot of that stuff's well documented. Like I said, 630 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 3: I wrote it because I wanted the people to feel 631 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 3: like we had a relationship and that Nick was a 632 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 3: human being. Yes, she was a loving, caring, wonderful mother 633 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 3: and person, and she doesn't get credit for that. She's 634 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 3: a victim. To most people, she's not even a human being, 635 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 3: and that's sad. Right to the book to humanize her. 636 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been such a fascinating conversation and we 637 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 2: are just getting started. There is a lot more to 638 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 2: unpack about OJ Simpson and Keith's relationship with him and 639 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 2: Nicole and the trial. So we are going to pick 640 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 2: it right back up on our next episode.