WEBVTT - Yolk with Doak 35: All Things St. Andrews 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.800 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:07.440 Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:08.680 at Zero Restriction. 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:12.360 They are a long. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.440 Time sponsor of the show, The Frida Egg Podcast, and 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:18.279 I want to thank them for being a part of 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.640 this year and a special part of this year summer. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:22.560 School in Scotland. 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:27.440 So they will be sponsoring our voyage across the Atlantic 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.920 over to Scotland for the Open Championship and some golf 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.680 as well. Really, when you go somewhere like Scotland or Abandon, 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.400 which we work with them closely on our winter trip 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.360 Tobandon to make sure we were weather proof. 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:42.839 You know, they're the fifteenth club in your bag. You 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:43.639 know you got to be. 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:47.960 Prepared for all elements and Zero Restriction will get you there. 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.720 So this year they will be over at the Old 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.880 Course as well. They'll be in the merchandise tent at 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:58.000 the Open Championship one hundred and fiftieth as well as 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.400 they will be the official outerwear provider of the twenty 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.400 twenty two President's Cup. So we trust them, you should 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.720 trust them to check out all their stuff at zero 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.640 restriction dot com and thank you to them for the 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.240 long standing support of this show. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.640 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:19.760 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.800 And when I find my ball in a brid egg 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.840 Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida, egg Frida egg 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.520 egg Frida egg bride egg lie, I'm about ready to 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:28.920 run off the golf course. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:54.400 Today's episode is with Tom Doak. It's another edition of 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.760 the Yoke with Doak and this is a special one. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.560 This one is really a table setter to get you 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.680 in the mood for the one hundred and fiftieth Open Championship, 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.480 which will be hosted at the Old Course at Saint Andrews. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.880 So this episode really just goes into detail about the 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.600 Old Course and Tom talks about a ton of stuff 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.399 and yeah, thank you to him for the time, and 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.720 we can't wait for the Open Championship. So, without further ado, 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:30.119 here is Tom dough Hey with the Open coming up 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.280 at Saint Andrews. I know that's a very special place 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.920 to a lot of people, but it's a place that 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.080 you love to talk about. I figured that'd be a 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:44.160 good first jumping off point for this and I'm going 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.520 to Saint Andrews and in the Old Course for the 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:51.080 first time in my life, and I was curious. You know, 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.080 I'm gonna be there for like a whole a whole week. 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:54.919 I'm not gonna play, but I'm gonna watch a lot 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.040 of golf. I'm gonna walk a lot. What what would 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.840 be your advice to a first timer like myself? 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.920 You know, I've never been there for the open My 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:11.560 advice for first timers generally is something you won't be 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.560 able to do, which is go out there on Sunday 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:15.320 and walk around. 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.160 I think I'll be able to do. I got the credential, so. 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.320 Okay, well maybe you can then that'd be great. I mean, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:27.080 you know, Sundays, the Old Course is famously closed and 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:32.240 it's a public park, and you don't there's more townfolk 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.040 like out on those first two or three holes going 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.200 out and coming back than there are further out as 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.080 you go. But there's people like walking their dogs and 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.080 walk you know, giving their kids a riding the stroller 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.720 and stuff pretty much all over the golf course for 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.400 most of Sunday, which is which is really fun, but 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.600 it's about the only time that you can be out 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.960 there and kind of linger and have a look at 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:01.120 the contours and the features because you know, because the 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.560 other six days of the week gets a factory and 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:07.160 you know it's just one group after another. And you 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.040 know at the old course too. Not only do you 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.920 have to be aware of the people playing behind you, 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:14.680 you have to be aware on several holes of the 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.560 people come in the other direction coming back, because you 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.320 know your fairway could be in play for the other 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.760 from the other fairway. You know, on a significant number 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.880 of holes, and so it's that you have to have 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.400 your head on a swivel if you're out there trying 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:34.320 to walk around and look at it, not actually playing golf, 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.320 and you'd hate to, you know, ruin around a golf 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.799 there by trying to look too much while you're playing. 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.960 Do you think I've heard from so many people that 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.880 they feel like they didn't get it the first time around, 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.680 and then they feel like they get it more and more. 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.919 Do you think part of it is like sensory overload 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.520 or is it more like that's the nature of golf 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.400 where you take yourself on a guided based off where 0:04:58.440 --> 0:04:58.880 you hit it. 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:05.920 Uh, it's well a, it's it's by far more complicated 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.240 than other golf courses because the hazards that are out 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.200 there aren't placed in obvious spots, and a lot of 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.560 them you can't even you can't see very well from 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.279 the tee, so you know, you don't you don't see 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.960 a hazard until you get up, buy it or past it, 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.280 and you're like, ohh, I would have played different if 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.760 I'd known that was there. So there's that part of it, uh, 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.720 you know, just the lack of visibility making it hard. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:34.760 And then you know some of the things that are 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:41.880 really that really make certain holes challenging, our little features 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.919 and contours that you're just not likely to pick up 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.480 the first time unless you're a shaper or somebody who 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.800 does this for a living. There's no way that you're 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.400 going to really get that. So to me, it's like, 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.480 you know, people are excited to be there, but it's 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.960 you know that they're having a hard time picking things 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:04.120 out visually that they can remember, especially on the first 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.960 few holes going out. I think that, you know, one 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.839 of the reasons that the incoming holes are more famous 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.760 two reasons. One because you're playing toward the town and 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.240 you have something to aim at, and two you know 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.280 you've got the out of bounds wall in play on fourteen, 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.839 or you've got the fall fence line for the railway 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:28.760 line on sixteen or the hotel on seventeen, whereas going out, 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.800 you've just got some gorse and the new course over 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.239 on the other side, and there's nothing there to really 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.920 latch onto is Oh yeah, I remember that's the third 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.000 hole because there's another gorse bush over there. 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:48.320 So just you know, at a very rudimentary level, you 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.880 know hazards, you know them being real hazards and almost 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.720 strategic hazards where it's pretty easy if you avoid them, 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.640 and playable if you avoid them, but if you find them, 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.400 you're in for and for a tough day. 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.520 Yes, And that's what you know when you first get 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:08.000 interested in golf course architecture. You know, especially if you're 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.320 a kid, you know, you're drawing golf holes and and 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.440 you're drawing these little bunkers and you think about them 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:18.280 as hazards like that. But the truth is most golf courses, 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.080 most of the world, those bunkers are not very hazardous 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.480 for good players anymore. And you know at Saint Andrew's, 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.119 at the courses on the Open Road to that's not true. 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.600 They are real hazards, and even the best players in 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:37.960 the world are really focused on plotting their way around 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.200 that place too, so it's hazard free. Driving it in 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.320 the bunker is a penalty, and there's not many places 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.720 they deal with them in a way. 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.600 This is kind of a bigger, open ended question that 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:51.640 spawns from that. 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.920 Obviously, the I think the construction of bunkers over there 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.440 has a lot to do with it. The pot bunkers, 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.000 you know, where you you know, you can just trickle 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.800 in and you can be dead. Why do you think 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:10.520 that in America bunkers have kind of gone the complete 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.760 opposite direction in a way where where you hear people 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:18.000 say good players especially get in the bunker and they've 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.360 become they maybe aren't as penal. 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.200 Well, there's a couple of things to go into that. 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:29.120 I mean, one is we're way too focused in America 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:33.280 on the bunkers being visual objects and making them pretty 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.680 and making them dramatic. And when you build, you know, 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:42.080 you hear you know, not just you know, not just 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.200 people that are interested in golf course architecture, even the 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.600 people in the business doing the work, they talk all 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.959 the time about the visual scale of the bunkers, and 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.880 none of that applies to Saint Andrews. You know, you know, 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.960 my guys want to build a big bunker, so you know, 0:08:56.160 --> 0:09:00.000 so it's in proportion with other features in the lane 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.760 landscape and in Scotland they're not at all. They're tiny 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.959 little things, but you don't really you know, they don't. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.600 They don't look so ticky tack as people think, because 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.760 you also don't see them very well. They sit down 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.120 in the ground, so they're in visual scale by the 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.840 time you get up there to see them, but they're 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:22.959 not in visual scale from the tee. 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:25.560 Do you think some of that has to do with 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:32.120 the contours around them, where the bunkers are small in proportion, 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.800 but they actually play really big, like the bunker you see. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.040 The sand is actually just the small part of the 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.680 overarching bunker because of the way the ball seems to 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:43.600 feed into them. 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.880 Yes, sometimes not all the time. I mean, on a 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:51.720 lot of golf courses the bunkers don't gather so much, 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:56.720 so they are just you know, randomly. You know, if 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.800 you hit one hundred drives, you're only going to wind 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.040 up in a bunker at three or four times. But 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:06.640 you know at Mirfield that's Saint Andrew's at Hoylake. At 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.840 some of these places, Yeah, the ground around you know, 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:11.880 the bunker is sort of in the face of a 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.240 little hollow, and a lot of the hollow kind of 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:19.520 gathers balls into the bunker and then sometimes two you know, 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.280 like Mirfield is probably the best example. One of the 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.800 reasons I love Mierfield so much is because they the 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.320 shaping is so good at three D, like the actual 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.120 side wall may not be you know, like the road 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.640 bunker where it's six or seven feet straight up. You know, 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.640 you may only have a little two foot wall at 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.760 the base of the bunker, but then there's another two 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:47.800 or three feet high and six or ten feet away 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.360 from you. That's mode really tight, and if you don't 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.200 get over that, it's just going to roll right back 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:57.920 in the bunker. And that's something that's you know, we're 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.280 kind of afraid to do that. In modern arch or 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.239 all of us has had drilled into us drainage, drainage, drainage, 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.160 and you don't you know, if you've got sand flared 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.280 up the face, you can't afford to have that short 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:14.120 grass rolling down from the top because every time it rains, 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.520 it's going to wash out all the sand. That's flashed up. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.120 You can only really have the ball rolling into the 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.400 bunker like that if the sand's just flat in the bottom, 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.680 and if the drainage is so good underneath there that 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.439 when water collects in the bunker, it goes away pretty fast. Now. 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.839 I when I lived in Saint Andrew's, if they had 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.480 a big rain, the bunkers would be full of water 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.560 for a few hours. And they've put in a ton 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.160 of drainage. You know, most people don't realize that place 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.240 is really low lying. It's only like, you know, ten 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.760 or fifteen feet above sea level, so you know, there 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.360 wasn't much place for the water to go before. And 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.839 they've put a lot of drainage under the thing now, 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.400 so those bunkers do pump out quicker. 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.680 Yeah, and that's a Those bunkers are a perfect example 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.040 of what you're saying. Because they're flat on the bottom, 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.560 the water goes in and then they they they obviously 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.640 have installed more drainage to drain it out where they 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.160 don't have to worry about washouts with the with the 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.319 sod stacked faces, right, No, washouts. 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:20.800 Have never been a problem there. You know. Wind erosion 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.320 is a problem sometimes I'm bunkers in the UK, but 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.199 washouts pretty much aren't. 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.600 Uh what what are some of your favorite shots to 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:34.240 hit and to watch? I assume when you were working 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:39.000 grounds out there, you watched a lot of golf, you know, anecdotally. 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:41.959 What what were some favorite spots of yours to watch 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:43.400 or play? 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.080 Oh? Well, a lot of them are just a little 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.679 short game kind of shots, you know. So so going 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.560 out the you know, to me the two most underrated 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.920 holes or the second and the fourth. The second if 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:00.680 the flag's over and the left half of the green, 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:06.960 you've got some pretty severe rolly nouns to go, you know, 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.880 kind of rumble over. If you're gonna roll the ball 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:11.920 up there, you could play it to the right of 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:16.679 them and having you know, the ball just runs onto 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.040 the green and you've got maybe a thirty forty foot 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.720 pott over there behind the mounds. But if you if 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.280 the pins and the ball behind the mounds, you know, 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:26.760 you don't want to land it just short of the 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.679 green because you might land you might land on the 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.840 upslope and it stops, and you might land on a 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.640 downslope and it goes all the way through and over 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.280 the back. You know, so you've got it. You know, 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.160 on a shot like that, you've either got to fly 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.320 it over everything, which is hard. You can't do it 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.839 downwind and stop it anywhere near or you got to 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.640 land at like thirty forty yards short and let it 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.679 roll over all that stuff if you if you land 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:56.720 it short, you know, all those roles just kind of 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.000 cancel each other out. You know, you're starting. You know, 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.320 the ball lands at you know, say, elevation zero, and 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.680 it goes up over a mound and it slows down, 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.040 but it gets to the top of the mound and 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.120 then it speeds up and it's kind of back to 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.160 where it was by the time it gets on the green. 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.560 But you know, but you can't fly and land it 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.720 on that downslope, then you've got real trouble. The fourth 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.480 hole instead of you know, kind of a big ridge 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.040 that you're rolling over, it's just a little not quite 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.520 pointy mound about four feet high that's right in front 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.320 of the right in the middle of the approach to 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:38.160 the green. And again, you know, that thing is just 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.040 going to deflect your ball any direction if you hit it. 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.720 So the one thing that you can't do is fly 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.920 the ball and hit it. You know, and then you've 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.840 only got between that there's some really devastating green side 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.640 bunkers to the left of there. You've only got about 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.040 I don't know, maybe fifteen twenty yards between the mound 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.120 and the bunkers to try to, you know, to play 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.560 through that side. So you know, you tend to miss 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.280 the green right, but if you you know, that's actually 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.160 a hold that if you could drive it way left, 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.080 it makes that opening feel a little bigger. It's you know, 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.520 it's hard to get to a pin in the back. 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.160 If you do that, you're kind of playing across the 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.400 green to the right. But you know, at least you've 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.880 got a little wider entrance. You know, you know, the 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.200 ball not going to hit them ound and get deflected 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:27.560 into the bunkers on the left. 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:33.000 I think people think of strategy in golf architecture so 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.200 much as hazards. Like we talked about avoiding hazards, and 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.040 obviously that's a huge theme to the Old course. But 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.320 something that's kind of illuminating with those those two holes 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.160 and shots that you describe there, is that all a 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.240 huge part of the old course is the ground contour. 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.200 Yeah, another one is the twelfth green. You know, it's 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.960 a short part four. It's drivable for a lot of 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:02.760 these guys. Now, you know, a lot of the commmentary 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.840 used to focus on these hidden pot bunkers in the 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.680 fairway that were really built for when you play the 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.880 course the other way around, because you can't see them 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.400 and you could drive over most of them pretty easily. 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.960 But you know to me that you know, at the 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:19.920 end of the day, that hole is about the green. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.000 You know, there's there's kind of a big hollow in front, 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.680 and then there's a little shelf where they put the 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:30.480 hole and then it slides back down pretty hard off 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.720 the back, and that shelf from front to back is 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:39.240 only like thirty five feet, so, you know, laying in 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:43.000 a wedge on it and having it stay there and 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.720 not jump off the back or spin back off the 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.000 into the front, it's really really hard to do. You 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.120 really don't want to be you know, you want to 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.240 drive it up there close enough that you can ship 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.760 or pot up the slope. You don't want to have 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:58.360 to you know, you don't want to have to play 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.160 an aerial shot to that you can possibly avoid it. 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.320 Even as good as the pros are, you know, it's 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:09.119 just it's too difficult of a shot, unless if the 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.280 wind is in your face, maybe you have a chance 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.760 to hit that shot. But it's really not the high 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.040 percentage shot ever, which again that's not something you see 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.600 pros deal with a lot. Usually they can take it 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.359 in the air pretty close to the hole if they 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:22.760 want to. 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.760 Yeah, I mean, did you you know that? 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.080 I think some of the things that you're talking about, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.440 these smaller shelves, that's something. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:38.000 That you that you've used with Memorial Park as particular. 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.480 If you said on every golf course I've ever built, 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.800 I mean high Point had the seventh fall at high 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.440 Point was a little short part four, and I had 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.880 a little narrow shelf along the back of the green 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.760 and a deep pop bunker behind it that came straight 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:52.600 out of the old course. 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:58.240 It's like the idea of being able having a wide 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:03.240 range of pigs, you know, So that tiny shelf makes 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:08.399 the golf hole excruciatingly difficult, you know, especially for somebody 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.760 that's trying to make a three. And you expect on 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.359 a short part four if you're a very if you're 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.240 a pro playing an Open championship, to make a three, 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.159 and when you put that pin, what it does is 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.760 you know whether the pro the pro can tell themselves 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.760 as much as they want that they need to play 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.760 conservatively and avoid big numbers, but they get to certain 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.160 points where they cannot resist. 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:31.919 Uh. 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:33.440 And that's really you know, the. 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.760 What golf architecture at at you know, when with the 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.000 highest level of the game is is that you've got 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.080 the most conservative players and the architect is really trying 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.040 to tempt them to do something they don't want to do. 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.840 And those small shelves on short shots are a good 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.560 example of that. And but then also you could have 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:57.800 pins on that whole that are extraordinarily easy and right. 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.240 And you know, for the Open Championship, you know, the 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.480 green is really wide, So for the Open Championship they'll 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.160 put the pin along the different places along the shelf 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.879 all four days. But you know, if you and I 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.800 went there today and played the golf course, the pin's 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.280 probably down in the bowl in front, and it's not 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.480 nearly as heart as a whole, So it does That's 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:22.000 one of the ways that Saint Andrews, you know, is 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:26.720 playable for the average guy, and yet it's still a 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:31.200 challenge for great players. Is there is a tremendous variety 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.119 of things. And you know, I've had good friends. You know, 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:38.720 one of my mentors in the business or not really 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.600 in the business and golf is Bill Shehan from Chicago, 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.639 great amateur player. I met him when I was in college, 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.439 and you know, Bill won the Senior Amateur and then 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.320 he won the British Senior Amateur. So they made him 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.919 a member of the RNA. And he calls me after 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.040 he's a member and he's like, I'm going to go 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.440 play in that fall meeting and he's like, he don't. 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.320 He'd only been to Saint Andrews once or twice before. 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.480 He said, I'm gonna go play in the Fall Meeting 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.119 and I'm looking at the scores that win it and 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:08.760 I think, I, you know, I think I got a 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:13.600 pretty good chance. And I laughed. He's like what. I'm like, Wow, 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.120 they use the same whole locations for that that they 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.879 use for the Open or the Amateur. It's like the 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:25.160 course is six shots harder. He's like, oh, It's like, yeah, 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.800 get an get a really good caddy, and maybe you 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.520 can compete, but it's it's not the same golf course. 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:32.560 That's uh. 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:38.479 You know. Something that I always think about is something 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.439 that you said to me when you were playing the 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:44.760 Loop years ago, was about green shapes. And I think 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.560 about this with like the seventeenth at at Saint Andrew's 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.320 a long par four that you know, obviously it's a 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.840 par five sometimes in part four for the tournament, and 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.720 with it being a narrow green for really good players. 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.840 That narrow green on long holes versus that shallow, wide 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.080 green that you talk about with design on shorter holes. 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:12.560 I'd love to hear in a good example, the twelfth, 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.240 which we just talked about, is a wider, shallower green 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:20.280 with some shallow targets. Talk about that design feature in 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.679 terms of what it does, you know, in terms of 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:23.760 perceived difficulty. 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:30.000 Maybe it's not perceived difficulty as actual difficulty, so that 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:32.560 you know, I mean, you'll see a lot in Britain 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:37.639 that the the longest, some of the longest part fours 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:42.280 have the smallest, tightest greens, which you know, the average 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:44.440 golfer would think, well, that's unfair. You know, I'm hitting 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.080 a long shot. This should be the big target that 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:49.600 sort of evolved, you know when that you know the 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.280 road hole is is one of the holes that hasn't 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:56.000 the length hasn't changed in a very long time. So 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.680 you know back in the day that you were hitting 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:02.040 a short third shot into that green, not a long 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.959 second shot when it was first started. And since then 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.119 they really haven't been able to do anything about that. 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:12.520 So that narrow target, you know, it wasn't really built 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:14.800 for a foe iron or now they're back to hitting 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.359 eight iron at it or whatever. But you know, so 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:20.800 a lot of those holes just kind of evolved. But 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.320 that's what makes them so compelling. It's like, you know, 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:28.359 this is kind of unfair by most people's standards, but 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:31.280 guess what I got to decide what to do about that, 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:35.720 because there it is. But you know, the one thing 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:40.879 when I worked for Pete Dye was they the USGA 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.680 just came out with the slope system that Dean Nuth 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:48.960 had spent all this time. You know, they'd studied statistics. 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:51.439 You know, it was like the earliest research on like 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:57.520 where average bogie players miss it as opposed to scratch players. 0:22:57.880 --> 0:22:59.960 So they could try to come up with the data 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:03.320 to do this slope system and how to rate golf courses. 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.440 And Pete knew that, you know, I had a math 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:10.880 oriented brain, so he asked me to spend a little 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.919 time with Dean Nuth and also to study, you know, 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:18.399 their findings really carefully and tell him, you know, if 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.159 there was anything in there that we could use to 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:25.640 make the golf course harder for really good players and 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:31.240 comparatively not as hard for average players. And the one 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:33.720 thing that I did find that I picked out pretty 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:40.639 fast was on short shots. You know, the pro is 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:43.159 going to hit it in a really tight circle, obviously, 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:50.520 but he's going to miss short and long about as 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.480 much as he's going to miss left or right because 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:56.040 it's a short shot. And you know, a pro's not 0:23:56.240 --> 0:24:00.000 hitting a wedge ten yards offline or fifteen yards offline. 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:02.760 I think I think any good player would would think 0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:04.639 of this and say, if I got to take a 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.480 little off a wedge, that's when I get that little 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:11.119 over the top pole that goes five yards long and 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:14.879 a little left at or I I don't, you know, 0:24:14.920 --> 0:24:18.040 it's like the brilliance of twelve that augusta long left, 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:18.840 short right. 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:23.879 Yes for right handed play, yeah for right hand. So 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:26.480 you know, and the average guy with that short shot, 0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:28.560 you know, I could miss a wedge ten yards right 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:31.080 every day and just fan it right. I do that 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:36.000 every time. I play. It's fury, it's infuriating, But I'm 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.879 gonna get you know, I'm gonna get the distance pretty close. 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:41.800 You know, I know how far I hit. You know, 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:44.760 I know what a hundred yard shot feels like. So 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:46.199 I'm gonna get that. You know, I'm gonna get the 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:50.080 distance pretty close. But I might miss wide. So that 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:53.399 wide and shallow target, that's not so bad for me, 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:57.080 whereas that you know, that little slope in front is 0:24:57.119 --> 0:24:59.719 going to bother a tour player as much as it's 0:24:59.760 --> 0:25:02.200 going to bother me. Now you go to the other extreme, 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:05.960 you know, when when you've got a really long shot 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:08.200 into a green and hit a three iron or whatever 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:14.600 a green. Great players, tour pro level players are remarkably 0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:18.760 consistent on their distance control. You know, they don't miss 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:22.840 that ten yard short. Ever. I was talking to we 0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:25.440 were working on the you know, we've been doing some 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:27.879 work at the Renaissance Club, and I was talking Padrick 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:30.479 Harrington is consulting on it now, and I was talking 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:32.080 to him about it, and we were going through the 0:25:32.119 --> 0:25:35.919 course all by hole, actually looking at a laptop with 0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:38.800 the whole diagrams. We got to the seventeenth, which is 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:41.800 kind of a two hundred dard Part three. There's a 0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:45.439 nasty deep bunker front left and you don't see it 0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:48.679 very well from the tee and Harrington said, oh, I 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:51.639 forgot that bunker was even there. And I was like, 0:25:53.240 --> 0:25:55.040 it's one of the nastiest places to be on the 0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:57.040 golf course. How could you not think about that? And 0:25:57.040 --> 0:25:59.920 he's like, well, they can't put the pin right right 0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:02.399 behind it because there's a little slope away, so the 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:06.040 pins always eight or nine yards back of the bunker. 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:09.720 He's like, I'm never gonna miss it that short, and 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:13.760 I'm like, whoa, you know, because because because I'm going 0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:19.000 to miss twenty yards shorter long. You know, the tur 0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:21.840 pros are not going to miss shorter long, but because 0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:24.919 they're way further back, they're gonna miss wide. You know, 0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:28.200 it's just proportional for them. The farther you go back, 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:32.680 the more. You know, instead of three yards left or 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:35.120 right now, it's eight or ten yards left to right. 0:26:35.560 --> 0:26:38.439 So a skinny green is hard for them, or at 0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:42.000 least it's it's it's much harder for them than the 0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:45.159 the shallow target. The shallow target. They're never going to 0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:46.240 miss the shallow target. 0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:49.960 And you know this all came about, I think because 0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:52.560 I was I was looking at the scorecard and I 0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:55.840 was like, wait, why is the slope one twenty for 0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:59.399 this golf course. It's way harder than that, and and 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:01.880 this was you know, the response, and it makes total sense. 0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:06.400 Is like, you know, having caddied basically my entire childhood, 0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:10.639 the chances of a fifteen handicap hitting a four hundred 0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:14.280 and thirty yard part four and two are are so 0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:17.359 small to start with. By making it narrow, it doesn't 0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:21.840 really have a big impact. But transversely, a hole like 0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.840 the road hole, where you have this super narrow target, 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:29.000 you've got a hazard behind it, and you've got a 0:27:29.000 --> 0:27:31.000 bunker in front of it, and all of a sudden 0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:34.640 it puts a good player. You could wrap yourself into 0:27:34.680 --> 0:27:38.600 a pretzel worrying about where where to miss, and you've 0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:41.880 got a longer shot in where you're going to naturally 0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:44.280 miss those directions more often. 0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:47.560 Right, and you know that the road hole. The one 0:27:47.560 --> 0:27:50.119 thing about it is it's not like Augusta. It's like 0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:54.000 it's turned the other way. So so the long you 0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:56.159 know the long pole, you might get away with it, 0:27:56.200 --> 0:27:59.320 except for there's a very deep bunker there. If you don't, 0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:01.440 and you're a little less likely to go on the 0:28:01.520 --> 0:28:04.040 road because if you're going right, it stays a little short. 0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:07.879 But even so, you know, to me, that's one of 0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:10.000 the most fastest. That'll be one of the most fascinating 0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:13.080 holes to watch this year, because you know, thirty years ago, 0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:16.760 forty years ago, even the best players in the world 0:28:16.800 --> 0:28:19.520 didn't really try to hit get it back to the 0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:22.639 hole there at all. You know, it was kind of 0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:26.480 on par with the right pin at twelve at Augusta 0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:31.119 or ten at Riviera. It's like everybody knows it's stupid 0:28:31.160 --> 0:28:34.800 to try this, so nobody did. But now they're driving 0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:37.760 it so far. You know, they can be hitting eight 0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:40.000 irons or nine irons and they don't want to lay 0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:42.040 up to the front of the green if they're hitting 0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:45.160 an eight iron and nine iron approach, and that brings 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:46.600 everything else back into play. 0:28:47.480 --> 0:28:49.200 It's actually works. 0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:52.680 It's like that McDonald quote back when I think the 0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:55.200 Haskell ball came out where he talked about how certain 0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:59.200 holes get better with distance, certain holes get worse. This 0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:01.600 might be when you put a shorter and shorter club, 0:29:02.000 --> 0:29:06.240 it might force player's hand that psychological I'm going to 0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:10.440 deviate from my strategy, so to say. 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:12.040 Yeah, I mean that's that's probably the best example of 0:29:12.040 --> 0:29:14.480 it because you see how it's evolved over one hundred years. 0:29:14.560 --> 0:29:17.760 Like you know, somebody might you know, somebody might say 0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:20.120 let's restore it to be in a par five and 0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:22.880 you know everybody having a short third shot to it. 0:29:23.400 --> 0:29:27.320 But it's held up really well, whether it was whether 0:29:27.440 --> 0:29:29.480 some people are playing it like a par five or 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:31.600 people are playing it like a long per four or 0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:33.959 now it's it's kind of a short approach for the 0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:36.440 best players. It's still a compelling hole. 0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:42.240 Now for a quick break to talk about something going on. 0:29:42.400 --> 0:29:45.320 In the Frida Egg pro Shop pro shop dot thofridagg 0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:49.560 dot com, we have a wide selection of golf photography. 0:29:50.040 --> 0:29:53.280 I think we're up to fifty plus courses, maybe sixty 0:29:53.320 --> 0:29:57.280 courses that are listed in the pro shop. We now 0:29:57.320 --> 0:30:01.440 offer canvas prints as well as paper prints that are 0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:05.560 framed or unframed, and metal prints that people seem to 0:30:05.560 --> 0:30:08.400 really like. So if you go to proshop dot thefridag 0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:11.400 dot com, we're having a fourth of July sale. It'll 0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:14.959 be on all weekend long and it'll be fifteen percent 0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:17.480 automatically applied to your order at checkout. 0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:19.480 So go go. 0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:21.920 See if you if you're looking to spruce up your office, 0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:24.720 your basement, you're you know, one of the rooms in 0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:28.840 your house. This is a great opportunity the Prince in 0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:29.640 the photography. 0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:32.280 It's a great way to support us. Thank you guys, 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:35.800 and it's fifteen percent off all weekend on the Prince. 0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:37.440 Now back to Tom Dough. 0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:42.960 I'm curious with you know, we're we're talking about this 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:46.760 in distance in the Old Course. You know, obviously they've 0:30:46.760 --> 0:30:49.520 built a lot of new tea's and I'm not sure 0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:52.440 when the last time you were out there is, but 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:56.120 they it seems like the rough has been encroaching. Do 0:30:56.160 --> 0:30:58.880 you have any thoughts on on kind of the evolution 0:30:59.040 --> 0:31:01.560 of the Old Course and re years? 0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:06.000 Yeah, I mean it's been when did I walk it last? 0:31:06.000 --> 0:31:08.880 There's probably been. The last time I walked it was 0:31:08.880 --> 0:31:12.320 for that NBC documentary that's been on a million times 0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:15.160 in the lead up to the Open and which was 0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:17.040 really cool. We you know, we went out and walked 0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:19.680 on Sunday and talked about it a lot like we're 0:31:19.680 --> 0:31:22.560 talking now, except like point and at Features, which was 0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:29.360 which was really fun. You know, I do think you 0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:32.480 know the setup, you know this it's it's kind of 0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:35.040 like because they have the Open there every five years 0:31:35.040 --> 0:31:38.360 plus their mindus, you know, it's become like a lot 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:42.560 of US Open courses have, you know, like Shinnecock, they 0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:44.600 narrowed up and then they never mowed it back out 0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:46.600 to the same wit to the width it used to be. 0:31:47.360 --> 0:31:50.440 And Pinehurst, you know that was a big failing of 0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:53.160 Pinehurst number two for a long time. They narrowed it 0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:55.120 up for the Open and then you know they just 0:31:55.200 --> 0:31:58.520 kept it narrow and took away a lot of the strategy. 0:31:58.560 --> 0:32:01.160 And they've done that at Saint Andrew to you know 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:05.400 the for sure this you know, the sixteenth Hall, it's 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:07.840 just shockingly like you know, used to be able to 0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:10.000 hit it left of the Principal's nose and it would 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:13.720 just run forever out there in between sixteen and three 0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:17.360 and the farther it went, the worsen angle you had 0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:19.920 to the green and the harder it was. And now 0:32:20.000 --> 0:32:22.600 that's all rough and they're trying to make the rough 0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:26.640 as thick as they can. But you know you'd be 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:29.520 worse off if the ball just kept on gut. You know, 0:32:30.000 --> 0:32:32.600 a good player would be worse off. The average player 0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:34.520 would be much better off if the ball is on 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:36.680 short grass over there, because they're probably not hitting the 0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:39.280 green in two anyway. They just at least they find 0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:42.320 the ball. So there's four or five places around the 0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:47.720 golf course where they've taken away angles, you know, and 0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:50.880 sometimes they're taking away angles that are bad. You know, 0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:56.800 it's like the hard thing to you know, the hard 0:32:56.800 --> 0:32:59.480 thing for a lot of people to understand is sometimes 0:32:59.640 --> 0:33:03.600 sometimes the whole is harder if your ball keeps going 0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:07.160 off line instead of stop it. You know, the more 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:12.120 the longer it goes, the more acute the angle is 0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:16.120 going back the other way. And you know, I mean, 0:33:16.360 --> 0:33:19.000 I'm sixteen at the old course. You're playing back towards 0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:22.440 out of bounds as the further you go left, you know, 0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:24.680 if the pin's kind of on that front right part, 0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:29.040 you're playing to a very narrow thing with with a 0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:31.240 big hollow in front of it and an out of 0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:33.040 bounds fence not that far behind it. 0:33:33.560 --> 0:33:36.160 I mean, in that fairway used to be it just 0:33:36.280 --> 0:33:38.440 was short grass all the way left and now it's 0:33:38.560 --> 0:33:39.160 thick rough. 0:33:39.960 --> 0:33:43.040 Yes, there was just there was a lot of there 0:33:43.120 --> 0:33:46.960 was a lot of you know, the the third fairway 0:33:46.960 --> 0:33:50.200 in the sixteenth were pretty much mowed together, and now 0:33:50.240 --> 0:33:53.720 there's a big, you know, band of rock coming back 0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:56.640 in from the sixteen green and three T side that 0:33:56.680 --> 0:33:59.400 didn't used to be there. You know, seven is another 0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:01.880 one that like it's not a problem for the pros, 0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:06.040 but you know, I'm shocked at like, it's a long 0:34:06.240 --> 0:34:09.160 carry from the team now to get it out in 0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:13.399 the fairway, and you know, the average player isn't playing 0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:15.080 it from nearly as long as the pros, but it's 0:34:15.120 --> 0:34:17.160 a pretty you know, it's a carry to get to 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:19.440 the fairway now, and it used to be you know, 0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:22.919 the shortcrass came way back, and I just that one. 0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:25.759 I don't really understand why they changed it because it 0:34:25.800 --> 0:34:29.040 doesn't seem like, you know, it doesn't seem like it's 0:34:29.120 --> 0:34:32.400 adding any strategy, and it's it's not like the pros 0:34:32.440 --> 0:34:36.000 are gonna miss that short ever. So I haven't figured 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.960 out what, you know, why they did that with this in. 0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:42.720 Mind, I think we got questions from a couple of people. 0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:47.920 There's somebody I'm that I work with who cause really 0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:51.960 he's been bagging this take and I'm curious your your 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:55.719 thoughts on it, okay, he said. He says that that 0:34:55.800 --> 0:34:58.880 the old course just should be retired from the Open 0:34:58.960 --> 0:35:01.279 Rota and and and it should go you know, it 0:35:01.320 --> 0:35:04.319 should go the way of Prestwick and just go back 0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:06.680 to it's you know, be itself. 0:35:07.640 --> 0:35:12.320 Wow. I mean, obviously that's never going to happen because 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:14.920 the RNA runs the Open, and the RNA's based in 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:21.920 San Andrew's, so you know, I mean, I would say 0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:25.120 one of the things I like about that dynamic is 0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:29.520 that it does it puts more pressure on the RNA 0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:33.200 to do something about equipment instead of just doing something 0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:36.720 about the golf courses than it does the USGA because 0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:40.200 the RN because the RNA's home is one of those 0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:45.480 championship golf courses where all these problems show up. You know, 0:35:45.520 --> 0:35:47.640 the USCA doesn't have to worry about that. Oh that's 0:35:47.880 --> 0:35:51.800 Marian's problem, that's Oakland Hills problem. The RNA, it's our problem. 0:35:52.080 --> 0:35:54.400 So they have a little more skin in the game 0:35:54.480 --> 0:35:57.640 as far as what to do about equipment. Long term, 0:35:57.680 --> 0:35:59.960 they just they you know, they keep putting teeth back 0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:04.319 in and further and further back, but they don't have 0:36:04.440 --> 0:36:05.440 much room to do that. 0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:09.440 Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's the thing. 0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:13.719 Half the half the round seemingly is spent walking back 0:36:13.760 --> 0:36:15.360 to tease on other courses. 0:36:16.160 --> 0:36:19.799 Yes, and you know I did play. I played the 0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:24.640 golf course once in tournament conditions. After after we finished 0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:29.200 working on Sabonic. H My client Michael Pascucci, who played 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:32.239 in the dune Hill every year, and one of his 0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:34.960 founding members, Johann Ruper, who runs the you know, the 0:36:35.000 --> 0:36:38.960 chairman of Dunhill and runs the event, uh, invited me 0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:42.920 to come play in the tournament as part of you know, 0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:47.680 helping promote Sabonic a little bit. So so I played 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:57.120 three days, you know, carnousde Saint Andrews Kingsbarns and uh uh, 0:36:57.239 --> 0:36:59.160 you know, played a couple of practice rounds of the 0:36:59.160 --> 0:37:01.320 old course too and seeing it set up with the 0:37:01.400 --> 0:37:04.560 pins and really hard places, and it's the only time 0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:07.720 I've ever really gotten to do that. So I played 0:37:07.719 --> 0:37:10.800 with Andrew Ogcorn, who played on the European Tour for years, 0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:13.600 probably on the senior tour now, but you know, Andrew 0:37:13.680 --> 0:37:16.520 is not a very long hitter. We were playing into 0:37:16.719 --> 0:37:20.799 the nasty prevailing wind to come you know, into your 0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:23.520 face off the left as you're going out is a 0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:26.640 hard wind, but that's that's not uncommon in Saint Andrew's 0:37:27.719 --> 0:37:31.080 and he was playing some of those bactees for the 0:37:31.120 --> 0:37:33.520 first time because he played the golf course for twenty 0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:36.239 years and the European Tour played it every year. But 0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:38.239 you know, there was a new tea way back on 0:37:38.320 --> 0:37:42.120 two where he could barely you know, he could barely 0:37:42.200 --> 0:37:45.120 get it to the fairway and the left rough had 0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:47.560 been pulled in and it was really nasty over there. 0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:50.480 He made a quick six there, and there were like 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:52.799 two or three places that he really had to like, 0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:55.879 he struggled to figure out how he needed to play 0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:59.080 the hole now, because you know, thirty yards longer, it 0:37:59.200 --> 0:38:04.319 was much differ for a short hit. And again it's like, 0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:08.480 you know, you've got all these little wrinkles and you know, 0:38:08.520 --> 0:38:12.319 not quote unquote hazards out there, but things you have 0:38:12.360 --> 0:38:15.520 to take into account in playing the hole, and you're 0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:19.520 bringing some entirely different ones into play when you go 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:25.480 further back. So, I mean, it is a golf course 0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:28.400 that changes around a lot. You know, it's kind of 0:38:28.400 --> 0:38:31.160 a shame that they don't, you know, there's they're so 0:38:31.280 --> 0:38:35.160 interested in what the winning score is that they don't 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:37.160 you know, they're just on the back tee as far 0:38:37.200 --> 0:38:39.359 back as they can go all four days on every hole. 0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:42.080 I think, you know, like I don't think they they 0:38:42.120 --> 0:38:44.680 don't think they play eight way up one day like 0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:47.960 the USGA might do be a fascinating tournament if they 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:51.080 did some of that, because guys would not know where 0:38:51.080 --> 0:38:53.640 to hit the ball or what clubs hit from the 0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:54.920 tee on some holes. 0:38:55.239 --> 0:38:57.719 Yeah, I think that's one of the things, right, is 0:38:57.760 --> 0:39:01.239 that it's a golf course. Like you know, everything that 0:39:01.320 --> 0:39:05.120 I've read and listen to and you know heard you 0:39:05.200 --> 0:39:09.640 talk about other people talk about is the effectively randomness 0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:12.160 that you feel with the bunkers. But then when the 0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:15.640 wind changes into different directions and that all of a 0:39:15.640 --> 0:39:21.200 sudden it makes sense. And in theory, as a tournament 0:39:21.320 --> 0:39:27.600 set up organization, turnam step staff could create that randomness 0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:30.000 all four days of the tournament with them with the 0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:32.840 way they set it up. And also, you know, I 0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:36.400 think one of the things that people lament about distance 0:39:36.920 --> 0:39:39.960 is the idea that certain aspects of the game aren't 0:39:40.000 --> 0:39:40.800 aren't tested. 0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:44.120 If you throw score out of the out of the. 0:39:44.080 --> 0:39:47.759 Equation, you can effectively do that with just setting up 0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:50.640 the golf course making par fours. Oh, I want to 0:39:50.680 --> 0:39:52.480 see you want to see somebody hit a long iron. 0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:54.680 Why don't we turn this par four into two hundred 0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:57.319 and fifty yard Part three for the day. You know, 0:39:57.480 --> 0:40:00.680 if you don't care about score, right right right? 0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:03.319 And then the other thing is and I don't think 0:40:03.320 --> 0:40:06.440 it's appreciated enough. I really picked up on it in 0:40:06.480 --> 0:40:10.520 Houston the last two years. Is you know, that big driver. 0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:14.440 It's not just that it enables people to hit it farther. 0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:19.239 They're so much more consistent with it. They know exactly 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:21.799 how far they're carry distance is, and it's not like, 0:40:22.280 --> 0:40:25.439 you know, when I played golf with Ben crenshawt thirty 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:28.600 years ago, there was a difference between hitting the ball 0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:31.160 and the screws and just hitting a normal drive and 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:34.359 it was like twenty yards. Yeah, but that's not a 0:40:34.400 --> 0:40:37.960 factor for tour players anymore. It's like, I can carry 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:43.600 a three h five and if the water's twine, I'm 0:40:43.640 --> 0:40:46.680 perfectly okay with that. I'm never gonna miss it six 0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:48.560 yards short from three hundred yards. 0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:50.600 That's that's the thing. 0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:53.400 And that's crazy that that that the equipment is that 0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:57.160 consistently good that they can just you know, I can 0:40:57.200 --> 0:41:00.319 play really close to something because I know I'm not 0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:01.680 going to lose distance. 0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:04.920 I did an experiment a few years ago with with 0:41:05.080 --> 0:41:09.759 modern equipment versus per Simon versus like Hickory. I never 0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:12.799 published the results, but like for me who's not a 0:41:12.840 --> 0:41:16.040 tour pro, the difference between a mishit and a good 0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:18.880 hit with a driver's like ten yards with the modern stuff. 0:41:19.320 --> 0:41:21.560 When you get the per Simon, it starts to become 0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:26.319 like thirty yards, huge, huge difference. You know, left that 0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:31.880 left miss is awful, It flies nowhere. The heel cut 0:41:32.320 --> 0:41:36.600 just just goes nowhere. And then you know with now 0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:39.560 with the current drivers, they go like effectively the same 0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:42.160 different distance. You know, like a lot of times you 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:44.120 miss it and it just runs further. It might not 0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:47.319 carry quite as far, but it runs further. And I 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:49.919 think that's like one of the obviously, I think that's 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:53.640 it seems like that's an area it's been highlighted by 0:41:53.640 --> 0:41:58.040 the USGA and this very very long, arduous process, which 0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:00.480 I think that has to be that way for because 0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:03.360 the lawsuits potentially flying. 0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:05.440 But you know, that seems to be one of the 0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:06.480 areas of interest with. 0:42:06.480 --> 0:42:10.000 The high level game is removing some of the forgiveness 0:42:10.320 --> 0:42:14.799 that you know, the forgiveness was created for the eighteen handicap, 0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:18.040 but it helps the the tour pro more so than 0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:19.160 anybody else. 0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:25.160 Definitely, because you know the tour players, it's like they're 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:30.280 pretty consistent anyway, but when you give them that equipment, 0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:35.640 their confidence level is just unbeatable. And that's the you know, 0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:38.800 that's that's what we go back to. That that we're 0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:41.839 trying to cut into a little bit an architecture is 0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:45.080 like give them some things that make them a little uncertain. 0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:48.680 But if they know exactly how far the ball goes 0:42:49.000 --> 0:42:52.000 and they know exactly how far that bunker is, they 0:42:52.040 --> 0:42:55.600 don't make any mistakes. I think, you know, actually in Britain, 0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:59.920 the mistake that they can make is the ball roll 0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:03.080 out too far into a bunker that they didn't think 0:43:03.120 --> 0:43:05.560 they could get to, like happened to Adam Scottman in 0:43:05.600 --> 0:43:08.480 the playoff for the Open. You know, adrenaline on a 0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:11.640 high down wind. He thought there's no way he's driving 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:13.479 it into that bunker from the t and he did. 0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:15.839 You know, that wouldn't happen to him on the other 0:43:15.920 --> 0:43:18.080 end though, It's like if he's trying to carry something 0:43:18.200 --> 0:43:19.800 he's gonna carry. 0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:25.200 Yeah, it's that's that's the thing, right, is that you know, 0:43:25.560 --> 0:43:28.200 and you could do that with setup. One of the 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:31.439 most famous things, one of the most famous I think 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:36.200 moments of of of great setup, and it's on a 0:43:36.239 --> 0:43:38.799 hole that I would not consider a great golf hole 0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:41.240 is the sixteenth at the Olympic Club. 0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:46.960 Furick. He didn't know what to do. He's leading the 0:43:47.040 --> 0:43:47.680 US Open. 0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:49.719 They moved the tea up and he doesn't know what 0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:52.640 to do and because of it, he hit, you know, 0:43:53.040 --> 0:43:56.200 a shot that you never see somebody that's leading a 0:43:56.239 --> 0:43:59.920 major championship hit because he was confused, uncommitted and did 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:03.000 know what to do simply by moving teas. And I 0:44:03.040 --> 0:44:07.080 think that's like something like it's just if somebody went 0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:11.040 out and shot fifty seven, then you know, the public 0:44:11.080 --> 0:44:15.560 backlash would be, you know, so crazy. But in a way, 0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:19.359 somebody shooting fifty seven, you might provide a more well 0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:22.320 rounded test doing that with a varied setup. 0:44:23.760 --> 0:44:27.720 Yeah, I mean, you know, when we started talking about Houston, 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:30.200 one of the things that brooks Kepka asked for that 0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:32.959 we couldn't really put into Memorial Park so much because 0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:35.960 there were so many trees. Was to put teas on 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:39.840 different angles and you know, make them play from different places. 0:44:40.280 --> 0:44:43.239 So they had to aim at something different because you know, 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:46.840 now if if they're playing from the same tea all 0:44:46.920 --> 0:44:50.479 four days, usually you know, the old course is kind 0:44:50.520 --> 0:44:54.000 of maybe an exception to this, but usually you know 0:44:54.120 --> 0:44:59.120 they've got some landmark, a tree, a scoreboard, something that's 0:44:59.160 --> 0:45:01.799 the line and they're just going to aim at it 0:45:01.800 --> 0:45:06.319 four days in a row. And he was like, you know, no, 0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:09.040 make people think more about what the line is. And 0:45:09.320 --> 0:45:12.239 you know, just you know, if you move over fifteen yards, 0:45:12.280 --> 0:45:13.800 you can't aim at that thing anymore. 0:45:14.600 --> 0:45:19.560 Yeah, with with the old course, obviously something that'll get 0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:22.759 brought up a ton is the roots of it being 0:45:22.800 --> 0:45:27.040 reversible in the beginning you've played it in reverse? 0:45:27.680 --> 0:45:31.359 Did I played it with Eric every sing and Don 0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:34.200 plays like one time, you know, back when we were 0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:36.920 it was actually just before we were starting Old McDonald 0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:40.120 and you know, but it was one of the first 0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:42.719 years they had it reversible. And you know I had 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:46.600 walked it once reverse, you know, on a Sunday, just 0:45:46.640 --> 0:45:49.040 to try to figure out some of the things. So 0:45:49.120 --> 0:45:52.440 I was not flying blind for every you know, for 0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:54.759 the other guys, it was like where do we go? 0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:57.799 It was very hard to pick out what you were 0:45:57.800 --> 0:46:00.200 supposed to do on some of the holes. Now. One 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:04.080 of that too is you know, in the early early days, 0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:06.880 the place was grazed and all of it. You know, 0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:09.879 the grass was short pretty much everywhere. Now they've got 0:46:09.920 --> 0:46:11.960 some mowing lines like we were talking about, and the 0:46:11.960 --> 0:46:13.920 mowing lines are all based on the way that they 0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:17.480 play it now. So I'm sure it was more playable 0:46:18.239 --> 0:46:20.920 when there wasn't rough right up to the back of 0:46:20.960 --> 0:46:24.560 the fourteenth green. So when you're playing the hole and 0:46:24.680 --> 0:46:26.520 reverse you have to carry it. You have to fly 0:46:26.640 --> 0:46:29.759 it onto the putting surface, you know. But that's you know, 0:46:29.800 --> 0:46:31.880 one of the big differences right off the bat is 0:46:31.920 --> 0:46:34.960 there were three or four halls. There's you have to 0:46:35.000 --> 0:46:37.719 carry rough in front of the green when you're playing backwards, 0:46:38.040 --> 0:46:40.600 and I don't think it was that way when they 0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:42.600 played it. You can reverse one hundred years ago. 0:46:42.960 --> 0:46:45.960 I guess that it is. So it was all very patchy. 0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:48.480 You know, who knows what lie you're going to get 0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:50.440 everywhere kind of gone. 0:46:50.480 --> 0:46:52.600 Well. The weird part was, you know, when in doubt 0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:56.560 sometimes you would like, you know, drive it over to 0:46:56.600 --> 0:47:00.279 the other fairway. You know, even though you're coming from 0:47:00.280 --> 0:47:02.440 way over here, let's get over on the fairway that 0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:05.240 they're still maintaining the approach. 0:47:04.920 --> 0:47:09.359 For well, you know, maybe they'll eventually get back to 0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:13.480 that where it's just short grass everywhere with h what. 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:14.560 What holes did you think? 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:16.439 Did you Were there any holes that you thought were 0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:17.880 better holes playing reverse? 0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:23.280 No, there were no holes that were obviously better playing 0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:26.400 and reverse. And obviously there's you know, there's two or 0:47:26.440 --> 0:47:29.719 three really famous holes that you know, you're like you're 0:47:29.760 --> 0:47:31.600 at Saint Andrews and you don't get to play into 0:47:31.640 --> 0:47:34.879 the road green from from there. Actually that I mean 0:47:34.880 --> 0:47:38.279 that hole is a that is a good hole from backwards, 0:47:38.320 --> 0:47:42.520 playing down the first fairway and then into the narrow 0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:44.440 part of the green, the road bunker is kind of 0:47:44.480 --> 0:47:48.520 turned away from you just a little bit, so you 0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:50.520 don't you're not staring it in the face like you 0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:53.040 are the other way, but it's still it's a really 0:47:53.080 --> 0:47:56.440 hard little pitch shot going, you know, it's it's narrow 0:47:56.560 --> 0:48:01.719 between the road and the bunkers still, and you know, 0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:06.080 playing up the twelfth fairway where you are seeing all 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:08.320 those little pot bunkers in the way and then hitting 0:48:08.360 --> 0:48:11.040 across the big bunker to the left of the eleventh 0:48:11.040 --> 0:48:16.080 green onto that green. That was a frightening shot, even 0:48:16.120 --> 0:48:18.080 though it was it's not a very long shot again, 0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:20.719 but that was still like that was definitely a wake 0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:24.759 up call. But but other than those not really, I 0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:28.080 mean and and those holes, you know, they're great holes 0:48:28.120 --> 0:48:30.360 the other way too, I can't say they're better, you know, 0:48:31.040 --> 0:48:33.759 you know, playing the first hole backwards is not the 0:48:33.800 --> 0:48:35.080 same as playing the road hole. 0:48:36.120 --> 0:48:40.799 Yeah, you know, one final question the whole course is 0:48:41.360 --> 0:48:46.080 you know, if you were I assume I think I 0:48:46.120 --> 0:48:48.040 know the answer to this, but like if you were 0:48:48.080 --> 0:48:52.520 in Scotland, you say, this is just I know you're 0:48:52.520 --> 0:48:55.319 going to hate this question all right now, you're gonna 0:48:55.360 --> 0:49:00.960 hate it. Say you're like, say, just live you all 0:49:01.000 --> 0:49:04.480 of a sudden your life's there and you could put 0:49:04.480 --> 0:49:06.759 in all the courses are in your backyard. Is it 0:49:06.800 --> 0:49:08.840 the course you're playing the most of any course of 0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:11.080 Scotland or is there is there somewhere else. 0:49:12.040 --> 0:49:16.680 Sat Andrews in North Berrick. You know, I've played North 0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:19.799 Barrick more than Saint Andrews because of working at the 0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:23.919 Renaissance Club and them being so nice to us while 0:49:23.920 --> 0:49:25.840 we were there. Just yeah, go out and play in 0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.680 the evenings, don't worry about it. And you know, and 0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:32.040 I've been going. I've been going back there for you know, 0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:35.160 almost every year the last few years. And if I play, 0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:39.400 if I play anywhere outside there, I'm going over to 0:49:39.440 --> 0:49:41.960 North Barrick and playing it again. It's just it's, you know, 0:49:42.000 --> 0:49:44.360 it's not it's it's more flattering to my game than 0:49:44.400 --> 0:49:46.879 the old courses. And you don't it's not as hard 0:49:46.920 --> 0:49:49.480 to access, you know. The old course is just busy, 0:49:49.680 --> 0:49:53.080 is the main problem. So I haven't really played it 0:49:53.239 --> 0:49:58.040 nearly as much. You know, I've played it maybe twenty times, 0:49:58.080 --> 0:50:00.080 but I haven't played it nearly as much as I 0:50:00.120 --> 0:50:07.359 would if access were easy. But it's a fascinating golf course. 0:50:07.400 --> 0:50:09.160 You would never get tired of playing there. 0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:12.120 Yeah, it's uh, you know, the busy. 0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:15.360 I always know which resources are the busiest, because you know, 0:50:15.440 --> 0:50:18.000 people always are reaching out to me to go see 0:50:18.040 --> 0:50:21.879 their places and places that I've never gotten. A place 0:50:21.920 --> 0:50:24.560 that I've never gotten an inquiry about coming out to 0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:27.359 is the old course. I don't think they need any 0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:31.279 they don't need any help, so it should be a 0:50:31.320 --> 0:50:35.080 great Open. We're looking forward to that and and we'll 0:50:36.040 --> 0:50:38.200 thank you so much for talking about it with us 0:50:38.239 --> 0:50:41.000 this us. It should be a great table setter for 0:50:41.040 --> 0:50:44.160 everybody to get in the Open Championship. 0:50:44.200 --> 0:50:46.200 Bood have fun over there, ma'am. 0:50:56.840 --> 0:50:59.439 Thank you for listening to another edition of The Yoke 0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:03.000 with Dope. Today's episode was edited by Meg Atkins. 0:51:03.239 --> 0:51:05.160 Thank you, Meg, wonderful job. 0:51:05.200 --> 0:51:10.240 As always, as a quick reminder, we have a print sale. 0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:13.400 We are doing a big print sale in the pro Shop. 0:51:13.840 --> 0:51:18.080 It is fifteen percent off all prints through the fourth 0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:19.680 of July weekend, so go. 0:51:19.680 --> 0:51:20.640 In there check it out. 0:51:20.680 --> 0:51:22.839 If you want to spruce up your office, spruce up 0:51:22.840 --> 0:51:26.000 your basement, spruce up any room in your house, this 0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:29.560 is a great opportunity. We have over fifty courses. We 0:51:29.680 --> 0:51:35.040 have metal prints, paper prints as well as canvas prints. 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:38.720 New offering, so you get fifteen percent automatically this weekend. 0:51:38.840 --> 0:51:41.880 Go check it out and maybe dress up your walls 0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:42.720 this weekend. 0:51:43.000 --> 0:51:46.600 Thank you, and we will be back on Tuesday. We'll 0:51:46.600 --> 0:51:49.480 talk with Garrett Morrison who was on the ground at 0:51:49.680 --> 0:51:54.200 the live event in Portland, and then Friday we will 0:51:54.239 --> 0:51:59.000 have more Open Championship preview content. Really trying to you know, 0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:00.880 just get you guys in the mood for the open. 0:52:01.040 --> 0:52:03.680 Thanks again for listening to another episode, and we will 0:52:03.719 --> 0:52:25.880 be back on Tuesday.