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Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from house Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast Don't

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Speaker 1: Josh Clark, Charles W. Chuck Bryant Old's with us again.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh, it's Morning Edition How Stuff Work. It's right.

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Speaker 1: Are the Indiana Jones chronicles he's in this article. Man,

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Speaker 1: you can't do archaeology without talking about Indiana Jones because

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Speaker 1: you can't spell it without Indiana Jones. Uh. And do

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Speaker 1: you know why? Because, as his article points out, archaeologists

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Speaker 1: are one part explorer, one part scholar, one part P. T. Barnum,

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Speaker 1: one part ps, one part scientist, and one part historian,

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Speaker 1: which is true, and that is exactly who Indiana Jones was.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Plus he knew his way around a whipping

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Speaker 1: and gun. Well, you know, if you're gonna get the

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Speaker 1: ark of the Covenant, you're gonna have to whip a

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Speaker 1: couple of dudes. That's what Steven Spielberg says. At least

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Speaker 1: I know he got that across quite plainly. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: whipp thing was a good idea. That was neat throwback,

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Speaker 1: although he never whipped a cigarette out of somebody's mouth,

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Speaker 1: which I was waiting for. Like the whole movie. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's a parlor trick. Yeah, well it's pretty cool. That's

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Speaker 1: very cool. Uh did you have an intro? Did I

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Speaker 1: spoil it? No? It was as good an intro as

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Speaker 1: any you know me in archaeology. That was the first

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Speaker 1: word I could spell. Um, was it? Really? Let me

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Speaker 1: take that back. That was the first big word I

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Speaker 1: could spell. I'm sure I had like dog and cat

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Speaker 1: and all that down first, but I remember being in

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Speaker 1: second or third grade and spelling it and the teacher

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Speaker 1: being like wow, And I was like, yeah, I'll bet

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Speaker 1: you're impressed because I'm young and I can spell archaeology correctly,

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Speaker 1: and she said, guess it in the corner. The reason

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Speaker 1: why I could spell it is because I had already

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Speaker 1: been studying it for years. I've always been fascinated by archaeology. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I could have seen you doing this for a living.

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Speaker 1: My buddy Jerry Um out in Portland's Jerry's both of

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Speaker 1: our buddy different Um Jerry in Portland mail Jerry is Uh,

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Speaker 1: Jerry purpose is a here you go. That's why we

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Speaker 1: had last night. He was a history and I think

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Speaker 1: anthropology major two and wanted to get into archaeology. So

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Speaker 1: all those disciplines. Like it's a science that is heavily

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Speaker 1: uh butted up against the humanities. It's pretty neat well,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of absorbed them, kind of like some early

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Speaker 1: bacteria absorbed um mitochondria, you know, and used it for

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Speaker 1: itself the power. Yeah, but it's it's very much in

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Speaker 1: that vein. Like archaeology started out as a very straightforward,

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Speaker 1: simplistic discipline and at one point finally the archaeologists got

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Speaker 1: bored and they said this, this could be so much

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Speaker 1: more and they expanded, which we'll talk about when we

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Speaker 1: get into the history of archaeology, but just the word itself,

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Speaker 1: it does definitely conjure Indiana Jones um and he was

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Speaker 1: one part this, one part that, And yes, archaeologists are that.

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Speaker 1: But the entire pursuit of archaeology is so unwieldy. There's

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Speaker 1: so much to it, documenting all human industry from the

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Speaker 1: very recent past to the furthest reaches into human history

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Speaker 1: that the the field is broken into a lot of

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Speaker 1: different disciplines, and even those are broken further into subdisciplines,

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Speaker 1: so much so that like if you take a forensic

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Speaker 1: archaeologist and put it up against a glacial archaeologists. It'll

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Speaker 1: be like, are these two really the same in the

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Speaker 1: same field? Are they? They are? But they definitely you

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Speaker 1: might not have a lot to talk about, you know,

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Speaker 1: like how about that ice for success is going to

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Speaker 1: how about that grave site? Like I have no idea

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about. They're also broken into geographical areas

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Speaker 1: sometimes or uh like time periods. Yeah, like you are

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Speaker 1: a Mesopotamian archaeologists, like that's your specialty, and that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: There's underwater archaeologists, which I think I I wrote a

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Speaker 1: few of these articles back then. I think I did

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Speaker 1: want to underwater archaeology too. It's so interesting that we

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Speaker 1: didn't touch on. But that's super interesting because the trick

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Speaker 1: with all archaeology is preservation. You don't just dig in

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Speaker 1: there with a shovel and like pick up the vase

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Speaker 1: like in the movie and shake it see what's inside.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot more technical than that. And with underwater archaeology,

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Speaker 1: you know that stuff is so fragile. You have to

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Speaker 1: transport it in the exact state that it was in.

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Speaker 1: So like if you find a book down there, you

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Speaker 1: have to put that book in a tank of salt

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Speaker 1: water at the right temperature a book. Well yeah, sure, okay,

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Speaker 1: Well you know I'm not saying it's been down there

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Speaker 1: a thousands years. I have this a stopwatch from the

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Speaker 1: Titanic pocket watch. You have to transport it in a

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Speaker 1: tank of saltwater at that temperature with the right amount

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Speaker 1: of sand to wherever you're going to take it to

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Speaker 1: your laboratory essentially, and then put on an expensive exhibit. Yes, exactly. Um.

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Speaker 1: And underwater archaeology isn't necessarily just stuff that that sunk,

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Speaker 1: although that part is so fascinating, Like things that are

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Speaker 1: supposed to be above water that are now submerged just

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Speaker 1: take on a whole different attitude to me. Yeah yeah, um.

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Speaker 1: But there's other other underwater archaeology too that that goes

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Speaker 1: beyond shipwrecks, Like they recently found a nine thousand year

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Speaker 1: old um hunting blind in lake here on what Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it used to be above water, and then after the

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Speaker 1: ice Age, the water levels rose and covered it up,

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Speaker 1: and they recently discovered it under a hundred ft of water.

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Speaker 1: And it basically consists of some lanes of stone with

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Speaker 1: a cul de sac yeah um, that they would kind

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Speaker 1: of use to shoot caribou through, and then at the

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Speaker 1: end they're like the Cariboers like cul de Sac and

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Speaker 1: then death. Yeah, but they recognized this and then documented

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Speaker 1: it under a hundred and twenty ft of water and

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Speaker 1: Lake Huron. That sounds like it perhaps could have been

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Speaker 1: an accidental find. Do you know. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: they're looking for that. I don't I don't know. But

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Speaker 1: the idea that you could look at some rocks and

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, this is a hunting blind from

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Speaker 1: nine thousand years ago used to hunt caribou underwater. That

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Speaker 1: just seems really special to me. That is very cool.

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Speaker 1: But I mentioned accidental finds because that's one of the

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Speaker 1: neat things about archaeology. Um. If you're an archaeologist, clearly

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Speaker 1: you are going to be have be in your bonnet

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Speaker 1: to go find whatever it is ark of the Covenant.

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Speaker 1: But there's things found all the time just by people

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Speaker 1: who stumble upon them, accidental finds. Um. Because there's there's

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Speaker 1: junk everywhere, like the cave paintings at lasco. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: want to say junk. I mean that in the like

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Speaker 1: stuff way, in the academic sense, not worthless. It's all

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Speaker 1: great stuff. But the less Go Cave in France was

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Speaker 1: discovered accidentally by some local teens. Apparently there was a

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Speaker 1: storm and a tree fell over and it exposed this

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Speaker 1: cave entrance that had been covered for thousands and thousands

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Speaker 1: of years at the Dead Sea scrolls. That was an accident.

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Speaker 1: A nineteen seven a Bedouin shepherd found them and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: these these are comportant. Yeah, what else for a little

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Speaker 1: French schoolboys? Let's go? Oh is that? Let's go? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why she didn't put it in the article. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is weird. She left out that one word. Um.

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Speaker 1: All right, so let's go back a little bit and

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Speaker 1: talk about how the stuff all started because in the

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Speaker 1: you know, fourteen centuries, people really weren't too concerned about

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Speaker 1: the past. Well that's not true. They weren't looking for

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Speaker 1: artifacts the necessarily, or if they were looking for artifacts,

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Speaker 1: they were just looting it and selling it and maybe

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Speaker 1: melting it down for its gold. Like the the artifact

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Speaker 1: that self didn't necessarily have any value simply because it

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Speaker 1: was old. Yeah, that's a good way to say. That

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Speaker 1: came about as a result of, um, the rise of humanism,

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Speaker 1: which gave rise to the humanities, which basically prized art

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Speaker 1: for art's sake, and um gave birth to the concept

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Speaker 1: that antiquities have value because of their age. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: then the the Renaissance. Basically it was birth from the Renaissance.

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Speaker 1: There's a dude named Flavio beyond though that was my

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Speaker 1: clumsy at times. You want to speak, say it again,

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Speaker 1: Flavio energy into it and then your Italian. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that's my problem because I'm fairly low key, you know. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Flavio Beyondo was the first person to create a guide

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Speaker 1: to the ruins of ancient Rome in the early fifteenth century,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people say that is the first

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Speaker 1: person you can point to who gave rise to archaeology

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Speaker 1: potentially and said basically, these things that we find, uh,

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Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't just melt down, maybe we should preserve them.

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Speaker 1: This is sort of an important thing for the future,

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Speaker 1: exactly right. Um, So he was one of the first

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Speaker 1: and then from that point on the idea of um

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Speaker 1: collecting things kind of took hold and it was a

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Speaker 1: little nuts so for a while, like people would just

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Speaker 1: go into it. There was no there was no aim

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Speaker 1: to preserve the site itself. You just wanted all the

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Speaker 1: artifacts from the site, so you could fill your palace

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Speaker 1: with them. Yeah, and I get the sense that there

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Speaker 1: was definitely a boom in the Renaissance and among royalty

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Speaker 1: of wanting things from ancient Greece and Rome, and I

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Speaker 1: know the Queen of Naples wanted, you know, ancient statues

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Speaker 1: and things to fill her palace and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to find out what happened with Pompeii and Herculaneum. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's why they were excavated. In was after their stuff.

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Speaker 1: And Pompeii is really neat, by the way, but all

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Speaker 1: of the artifacts, it's totally deserted. Everything that's there is

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Speaker 1: a permanent structure. All the artifacts have been removed and

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Speaker 1: they're still in Naples where they were taken in seventy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get a little bit later on into like

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Speaker 1: who owns this stuff. That's pretty interesting. But Napoleon was

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Speaker 1: a big proponent of archaeology. And I know we talked

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Speaker 1: during the King Tut's Tomb episode about Egyptology, and he

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Speaker 1: formed the Institute of Egypt basically a think tank in

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Speaker 1: the late seventeen hundreds of a hundred and seventy five scholars,

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Speaker 1: and it was just that fascination with Egypt and Napoleon

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Speaker 1: was all over. It formed this think tank and said

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Speaker 1: go find stuff right and like collected for me. And

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Speaker 1: they published a book too that really kind of loosed

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Speaker 1: archaeology and the idea of archaeology um on the world

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Speaker 1: is called Description of Egypt that they published in eighteen

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Speaker 1: o nine. Such a bland title it was, but it

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Speaker 1: like created Egypt fever um and so that came out

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Speaker 1: in eighteen o nine. In eighteen twelve, a British guy

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Speaker 1: named Richard Colt or h. O. A. R. E. He

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Speaker 1: wrote a book called Ancient History of Wiltshire in eighteen

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Speaker 1: twelve and basically he described methods for excavating methodically. He

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Speaker 1: also um was the first to identify what are called tells,

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Speaker 1: which are mounds, ancient mounds of basically a city being

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Speaker 1: built on a city on the city in the city,

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Speaker 1: in the city that they've been continuously occupied for thousands

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Speaker 1: and thousands of years. And then you know who else

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Speaker 1: was a early archaeologist Harrison Ford earlier than him, uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Thomas Jefferson in the eighteenth century, late

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Speaker 1: eighteenth early nineteenth century. He was methodically excavating burial mounds

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Speaker 1: UM on Monticello, on his land at Monticello, in between

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Speaker 1: rewriting the Bible. Yeah, he did a lot of stuff, um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, he was one of the early ones to

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Speaker 1: methodically do it. So there's like all of this enthusiasm

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Speaker 1: as in for antiquities and basically what amounts to looting

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Speaker 1: and grave robbing. But simultaneously there's these independent gentleman scholars

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Speaker 1: who are amateurs because there is no academic field yet, um,

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Speaker 1: who are creating the UM basically the body of experimental archaeology.

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Speaker 1: How to do it, the methodology, the best practices. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteenth century, a guy named Charles Lyell basically

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Speaker 1: started um. They called it, you know, uniformitarian stratigraphy, and

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Speaker 1: which is actually a pretty big hornets test, is it? Well,

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Speaker 1: I looked in into the uniformitarianism period and the whole

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Speaker 1: thing is but what does that have to do with dating?

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Speaker 1: It was a dating system, Yeah, it basically Before then

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Speaker 1: there is this thing called catastrophism where basically it was

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Speaker 1: like the Earth is static and it changes only in

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Speaker 1: the face of major catastrophes like a comet strike or something.

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Speaker 1: He's the only thing that changes the Earth itself. Uniformitarian

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Speaker 1: stread geography basically says, no, that's not the case, and

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Speaker 1: it gave us what we now understand as geological processes

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Speaker 1: geological time scales. It basically said, the Earth changes constantly,

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Speaker 1: but our lifespan is so short we can't possibly witness it.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at this, the processes that take

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Speaker 1: place now are the processes that the Earth has always

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Speaker 1: been subjected to. So one of those processes is sediment,

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Speaker 1: sediment deposits, and you can date things thanks to sediment

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Speaker 1: deposits because they're actually a predictable thing. So when you're

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Speaker 1: digging in to sediment, you're digging into the past and

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Speaker 1: you can date something you find in that sediment. That's

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Speaker 1: basically what it gave our geology, digging into history. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that sounds like the idea that you can date from

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Speaker 1: layers of ground. Yeah it sounds easy now or not easy,

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Speaker 1: but it makes sense now, but back then it was

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Speaker 1: pretty ravel. That's our world view now. But this is

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Speaker 1: one of the guys who introduced it, Charles Lyle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: our hats are all to you, sir, And he didn't

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Speaker 1: come up with it, but he was a huge proponent

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Speaker 1: of it who gained a lot of traction with it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about methods in um Flinder Flinders Petrie Boy,

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Speaker 1: what a great name. In nineto four wrote a book

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Speaker 1: called Methods and Aims in Archaeology, and that was one

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Speaker 1: of the first ones to sort of break down how

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Speaker 1: it responsibly excavate the site yeah um, and not just

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Speaker 1: to go in there and loot it um. And that

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Speaker 1: was a big turning point that the twentieth century, the

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Speaker 1: turn of the century. The find I think it's what

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Speaker 1: it's called, yeah um. That was a huge turning point

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Speaker 1: in archaeology. It really represented the when methodology took hold.

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Speaker 1: Like there was a guy named Heinrich Schliemann who discovered

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Speaker 1: Troy basically um and he uh just basically went in

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Speaker 1: and started tearing through the sediment and he identified a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different layers of occupation, but he didn't really

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Speaker 1: document him like he should four definitely he had an

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Speaker 1: assistant named Wilhelm Dorpe felt yeah, and he kind of

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Speaker 1: took a different approach to it, a much more methodical approach.

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Speaker 1: And all of this took place at around the same time.

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Speaker 1: So like even on the site of troy Um. This

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Speaker 1: change from pillaging to methodology took place. Yeah, they probably

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Speaker 1: got tired of hearing their uh workers say broke, right,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, they're like, all right, well maybe we

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Speaker 1: should slow down and uh it broke be a little

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Speaker 1: more judicious with the shovel. Uh. Dating Um, old things

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Speaker 1: is a big part of archaeology. It's no good just

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Speaker 1: to find something. You want to know exactly where it

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Speaker 1: came from because well, one reason, because it has more

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Speaker 1: value if it's older. That was probably what led the

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Speaker 1: dating charge. But um, there's a bunch of different ways

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Speaker 1: they can date, and they have dated over the years. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Something can be self dated. If you find treasurer that's

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Speaker 1: stamped with a date, then it's done the work for you.

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Speaker 1: Relative dating. If you find something that's with a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other stuff that you can date, then you can

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Speaker 1: probably say, you know, this stuff from King Tut's tomb

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Speaker 1: is probably all around the same time period. Clay barbs counting,

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Speaker 1: and that is counting varves, which are little laminated sediments

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Speaker 1: that accumulate, and that can help you out for about

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Speaker 1: five thousand years back. No, it can go even further

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Speaker 1: than really, yeah, how far I mean as far as

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Speaker 1: you want to go in the sediment. That's part of

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Speaker 1: the uniformitarian stratiography. Oh, I was misreading and I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Our written chronology only goes back five thousands, right, so

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Speaker 1: you can yeah. Yeah. And then the idea we didn't

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Speaker 1: give we didn't pay proper homage to um Darwin because

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Speaker 1: his we did a whole show on him, right, But

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Speaker 1: in this one um on the Origin of species um,

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Speaker 1: the that presented the idea that mankind had a history,

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Speaker 1: you that went back way further than a few thousand years,

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Speaker 1: and that kind of inspired archaeology to look around for

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Speaker 1: it more, you know. Uh. And then some of the

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Speaker 1: more recent ones, which we could probably do shows on

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Speaker 1: a couple of these, carbon dating radioactive carbon dating, potassium

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Speaker 1: argon dating, and thermo luminescence UM that measures light energy

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Speaker 1: and the intensity of light energy. Amazing, you can calculate

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Speaker 1: the last time an object was exposed to sunlight through

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Speaker 1: through thermo luminescence dating, and with potassium argon dating you

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Speaker 1: can date things back two million years if you believe

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Speaker 1: the Earth's been around the long so um. But just

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Speaker 1: a little more about the history of archaeology, if you'll

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Speaker 1: indulge me please. So methodology took place in the early

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Speaker 1: twentieth century. It became about that time in academic discipline.

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Speaker 1: Funny enough, they didn't start applying the scientific method to

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Speaker 1: archaeology necessarily until like the fifties or sixties. But yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: but it had its own method, and the method it

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Speaker 1: among archaeologists was you find an artifact, you date it,

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Speaker 1: and you catalog it. The archaeologist job was to date

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Speaker 1: and catalog and ultimately contribute to this growing body of

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Speaker 1: knowledge that was the timeline of human history and preserve obviously,

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Speaker 1: but it was like, these tools are older than this tool,

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Speaker 1: which means that the people who made these tools where

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Speaker 1: the predecessors of the people who made these tools. That

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Speaker 1: was it. Archaeologists got bored in the fifties, and they said,

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Speaker 1: we're explaining how these um these tools have progressed, or

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Speaker 1: human industry has progressed, but not why. Right when they

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Speaker 1: decided to start answering why, archaeology became a far more

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Speaker 1: interesting field. It became a multidisciplinary field, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, they're bringing in experts in ceramics, experts in metallurgy,

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Speaker 1: and and grabbing all these people from different fields and

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Speaker 1: saying how can we answer why this changed? What led

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Speaker 1: to what change? And archaeology at that point in about

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Speaker 1: the fifties or sixties became the very far flong, widespread,

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Speaker 1: all encompassing, uh discipline that it is today. That's awesome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so with help, Yeah, with a little help from their friends,

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Speaker 1: from their expert friends. All Right, I guess we can

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Speaker 1: talk right after this message, break a little bit about um,

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Speaker 1: how things start off. If you want to go to

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Speaker 1: gick something up. Okay, buddy, we're back. Uh. Field Work

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Speaker 1: is a word that you're going to hear an archaeology

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Speaker 1: a lot, and depending on who you talked to, it

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Speaker 1: might entail the whole process or just out in the field,

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Speaker 1: like at the actual excavation. But I think most folks

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Speaker 1: nowadays consider field work the excavation and all the pre work. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of research that goes into

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Speaker 1: it beforehand, in offices and school rooms and libraries and

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Speaker 1: what have you. And I think it's either all it's

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Speaker 1: everything including excavation, or it's all the stuff that leads

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Speaker 1: up to excavation is considered field work, right, I would

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Speaker 1: call it predig activity. That's what I would go with

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Speaker 1: that's where you go with. So excavation and field work

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Speaker 1: are two different things for you. Sure, Okay, if I

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Speaker 1: was opening up my own archaeological firm, that would be

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Speaker 1: my model. Yeah, it seems to be really there's not

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Speaker 1: a big problem with it either way. UM. So when

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Speaker 1: you when you do find something, like you said, um,

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Speaker 1: there's a couple of different ways things can be found.

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Speaker 1: They can be determinedly, doggedly solid after which can be

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Speaker 1: part of the field work, going through the stacks in

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Speaker 1: the library, looking for references in ancient literature, UM, and

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Speaker 1: just kind of trying to figure out where something might be.

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Speaker 1: That's what Schlieman did with Troy. UM. He read the

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Speaker 1: Iliad I Believe, which um describes the Trojan War UM

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Speaker 1: and said look for clues. Yes, yeah, and and that's

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Speaker 1: when he was like, I'm pretty sure this is where

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Speaker 1: Troy is. Yeah, you're like a sort of a history

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Speaker 1: detective at that point exactly which is Indiana Jones. After that,

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Speaker 1: you may you have to go get some permits, vocal permits. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you're also gonna want to go get a grant

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Speaker 1: because you're probably not going to fund this out of

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Speaker 1: your own pocket unless you're somebody like James Cameron or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. No, but grants can come

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Speaker 1: from rich people who may want some of the stuff.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe a museum wants to pony up some money

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Speaker 1: if they really want a certain exhibit in their museum, right,

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Speaker 1: or your university that you work for, UM should underwrite

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Speaker 1: some of it. Yeah, but you get your you get

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Speaker 1: your funding, you've got your grad student assistants. Maybe if

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be a really big dig you UM put

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Speaker 1: a flyer up at the local senior center. See if

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Speaker 1: anybody wants to come help during the days because of

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Speaker 1: the elderly would be good diggers, No, they would be

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Speaker 1: awesome diggers. And here's why it takes a lot of

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Speaker 1: patients to excavate a site. When you excavate a site,

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Speaker 1: you're basically coordining it off. UM. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: we've left at a really important point here. There's something

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Speaker 1: called geophysical prospecting, which basically uses uh, some pretty incredible

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Speaker 1: devices that measure differences in electromagnetism or electric connectivity in

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Speaker 1: the ground and then basically gives you a pretty picture

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Speaker 1: back saying here's something that's not rock. It's like an

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Speaker 1: advanced super advanced metal detector basically UM, but it can

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Speaker 1: also detect other really nuanced stuff like paint. It's in

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Speaker 1: everything detected. Yeah, it's just good stuff. So you you're

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Speaker 1: not just you may have read a book that says

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Speaker 1: I think that this ancient site is here, but then

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Speaker 1: you don't just start cordining off and digging. You do

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Speaker 1: a survey of the site to look for stuff and

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Speaker 1: see if it's likely that it might still be right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a huge step that, if you may see, youre

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Speaker 1: a terrible archaeologist. So I'm sorry we left that part out.

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Speaker 1: Now that you've got a basically a subterranean map of

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Speaker 1: the site, UM, you coordinate off and you start digging,

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Speaker 1: usually by meter, and when you're digging by meter, you

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Speaker 1: literally remove just one thin layer of that square meter

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Speaker 1: at a time. Yeah, because we we've said earlier preservation

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Speaker 1: is key and they were breaking things early on, and uh,

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Speaker 1: one way to not break things is to go super

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Speaker 1: super slow, super slow, just a little bit at a time.

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Speaker 1: And I know everyone has seen the footage of archaeologists

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Speaker 1: on their hands and knees blowing things with little little brushes,

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Speaker 1: and it is that UM, meticulous. Yes, might drive some

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Speaker 1: people crazy. It certainly would. Like construction worker guy probably

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to be on an archaeological day, no, But

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Speaker 1: it's funny you bring that up because construction worker guys

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Speaker 1: often find themselves in the midst of an archaeological dig.

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Speaker 1: Construction uh yields a lot of archaeological evidence. Like, for instance,

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Speaker 1: in Miami recently, they came across a two thousand year

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Speaker 1: old Indian settlement. Yeah, the te Questa Indians Um had

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Speaker 1: a little spot in the middle of what's going to

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Speaker 1: be a downtown of Miami's, you know, like their newest development,

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Speaker 1: and the developers are like, fine, just take some pictures

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Speaker 1: and let's get on with it. And the locals are like, no,

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Speaker 1: we need to preserve this better. So they're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure it out. But it happens a lot. Remember when

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Speaker 1: we talked about the huge tunnel underwater tunnel they dug

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Speaker 1: in Turkey. During construction of that, they ran into an

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Speaker 1: ancient site, so they had to bring in archaeologists. That's

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Speaker 1: what's called a rescue excavation, where it's going to be

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Speaker 1: totally destroyed by a group of people who really could

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Speaker 1: care less one way or another what happens to these artifacts? Um,

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Speaker 1: in the name of continued industry. So the archaeologist comes

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Speaker 1: in documents everything, the placement, all that stuff dates it.

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Speaker 1: And then that what what is documented from the excavation

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Speaker 1: that becomes the primary source for everybody else to follow.

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Speaker 1: By excavating, you're destroying inherently. Yes, And each state in

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Speaker 1: the United States has their own state archaeologists. Um. If

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Speaker 1: you go to do a construction project in Rome, let's say,

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Speaker 1: get ready for patients, because when you when you're trying

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Speaker 1: to build something in Rome, I think they give out

424
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: about building permits a year, but they require an archaeological

425
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: evaluation of each one. And it's some say it can

426
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: cripple uh progress in Rome. Yeah, but if you've ever

427
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: been to Room, like, it's easy to appreciate the fact

428
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: that they're doing that. Yeah. Sure, I mean it's just

429
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: the city built up against ancient, ancient ruins. Yeah, it's

430
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: really really wonderful how they preserved everything. Yeah, it's neat.

431
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 1: That's the only place in Italy I've been but un Yeah,

432
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: it was awesome. I think, Uh someone else with was

433
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: complaining about how dirty it was, and I was like,

434
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: it's been here a long time, right, Yeah, you know, no,

435
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: it does have the funk of age over like the

436
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: whole thing. But yeah, it's still you just kind of

437
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: It's not gonna smell like Montreal. Does Montreal smell good?

438
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: I think Montreal is noted for being pretty clean for

439
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: a city. You can see that. It's a fastidious city.

440
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: That's what I've heard. You've never been to Canada, do

441
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: you haven't? I grew up near the border, so I've

442
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: been plenty of times. Yeah, and hey, early early spoiler.

443
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: We may be going out to Canada this fall, to Vancouver. Yeah, Vancouver,

444
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: r It's listen up. In the near future, we may

445
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: be coming to do some live show there this fall. Man,

446
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: they're gonna go nuts if we don't actually go through

447
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: with this, that they won't remember we're gonna go though, Okay, alright,

448
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about um, the transition

449
00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: from our from grave robbing to archaeology looting archaeologic sites

450
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: and is still a thing. It didn't go away completely.

451
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: So each country, in each state in the United States, like,

452
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: everyone has their own way to deal with this stuff.

453
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: There are a lot of archaeological acts that have been

454
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: passed throughout the world to preserve things and to make

455
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: sure there's not looting going on. But despite all their

456
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: best efforts, it still happens. And uh, trying things like

457
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: putting up a big sign this is don't dig here,

458
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: do not enter. Sometimes I'm more of a welcome invitation. Yeah,

459
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: so sometimes they get tricky in uh, in New York

460
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: they do things like environmentally sensitive do not enter, So

461
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: they'll try and trick folks into thinking that, you know,

462
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: all you who enter will die. Um. But people pay

463
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,479
Speaker 1: money for artifacts still, and there is a black market.

464
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: People pay money for artifacts, and those people are very

465
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: frequently called museums well and private collectors. Yeah a lot

466
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: of times apparently, like dinosaur bones are super hot right now,

467
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: and Nicholas Cage has one that's contested. Um. It was

468
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: it was known to have been removed illegally from a

469
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: site that was never officially recognized um by basically some

470
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: this couple that goes in and like they're really good

471
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: at finding dinosaur bones, and then they sell him on

472
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: the black market and apparently he's got a really awesome skull.

473
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: Of course he does. Um. He also has a house

474
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: in New Orleans that was this like a torture murder

475
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: house in the nineteenth century that this really priestess owned

476
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: and like that's his house in New Orleans, like the

477
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: site of just blood baths. Yeah, he's a weird guy, man.

478
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: I know. When he married Patricia Arquette, he did some

479
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: crazy list of things, or maybe she came up with

480
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: a crazy list of things that he had to do

481
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: to marry her, and uh, he did them all and

482
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: it was a lot of it was like a big

483
00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: stupid rich person treasure hunt like that was were creative

484
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: than that. Oh I can't remember, like find me a

485
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: black rose, um, all these things that are hard to

486
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: come by. Then he did it and he married her

487
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: and the divorced her. So it's a happy ending. Um.

488
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: But the black market, sorry, back to it if you're

489
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: in Peru. They estimate they have lost about eighteen million

490
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: dollars worth the artifacts and goods on the smugglers market.

491
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: And so they their Institute of Culture UM they register

492
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: that register their historic sites and they require that all

493
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: the collections are registered. UM. They've partnered with the International

494
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: Council of Museums and basically all these international museums they're

495
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: they're trying to get together to thwart the thriving underground

496
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: archaeological goods, market goods, collectible goods. Sure, all right, but

497
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: that brings us in. So that brings us to the

498
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: interesting point on who owns the stuff. That's a great question.

499
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: For a very long time it was museums UM because

500
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: they were the ones who sent in professional looters archaeologists

501
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: at the time UM to go in and basically rob

502
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: a developing country of its antiquities and riches and history

503
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: and culture. Basically. Uh. In a lot of cases, the

504
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 1: government in charge of the time was totally complicit, Like

505
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: for example, when um Yale sent in Hiram Bingham to

506
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: Machu Pichu and he came out with a lot of

507
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: artifacts from it. The proving government was totally in on

508
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: it at the time. I'm sure that the high officials

509
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: were getting tons of kickbacks from Yale for it. But nowadays,

510
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: a hundred years later, Yale is giving back it's Manchu

511
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: Pichu artifacts. There's been a big move towards trying to

512
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: get back things exactly because the proving government has said,

513
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: wait a minute, like, we're less corrupt than we were before,

514
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: and this is cultural heritage, and that belongs to us, Like, yeah,

515
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: you've had it for a hundred years, but like there

516
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: was ours for thousands of years, so give it back.

517
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: Not necessarily much. You teach you for thousands of years.

518
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: But there are plenty of antiquities that museums have had

519
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: for a very long time, right, but really belong to

520
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: the source country. Yeah, and that's a big sticking point

521
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: um every country. Like if if you want to know

522
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: who owns an artifact, if you find something, let's say, Uh,

523
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: it's gonna depend on where you are. Every municipality, every state,

524
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: every country has their own laws as far as finders

525
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: keepers laws they call them. Uh, if you're in New Zealand,

526
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: a lot of them are dated by time. Like if

527
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: it's newer than a certain age, go ahead and keep it.

528
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: It's older than a certain age, you've got to talk

529
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: to us about it. Uh, found not older? When it

530
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: was found? Well, it depends on what country. Some countries

531
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: have a date on how old it is, but I

532
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: think the date is when it was found. Yes, certain

533
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: countries for sure, when it's found, certain it's the age

534
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: of the object. Um. It just depends on where you are.

535
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: And but in the date of when it was found

536
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: is usually the date that that comes after whatever act

537
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: was passed. Exactly. So in New Zealand, for example, if

538
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: you found something prior to nineteen seventy six, which is

539
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: when the Antiquities Act of nineteen seventy five came into effect, UM,

540
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: you get to keep whatever you find right right. If

541
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: you found it after nineteen seventy six, then you have

542
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: to you have to alert the local authorities. If you're

543
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: in Sweden, UM, that has some pretty interesting laws. They say,

544
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: if if there's more than one object at a site,

545
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: then you have to report it to the government. If

546
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: it's just one thing that you find, you can keep

547
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: it UM. And they have a finder's reward to encourage

548
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: people to be honest about it. UM. And if it's

549
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: only the single object, you still have to report it.

550
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: If it's partially made of a precious metal or copper alloy,

551
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: but if it's If you're in Sweden you find an

552
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: old wooden bowl, right, I love this example, and that's

553
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: the only thing you find, then you get to keep it. Uh.

554
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: It's really interesting though. UM. The United States says the

555
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: National Historic Preservation Act and the Archaeological Resource Protection Act,

556
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: and they claim I think the site must be at

557
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: least a hundred years old and remains must be related

558
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 1: to past human life or activity. That means you have

559
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: to report it to the government. So it's like really

560
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: like granular depending on where you are and what the law.

561
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: That's just two countries, Like there's there's something called treasure

562
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: trove law, which is basically it's this, but it has

563
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: to do with finding a bunch of riches where that

564
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: are old enough that the owner is clearly now dead,

565
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: no one can lay claim to it, and that they

566
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: were placed in a place where, um, they shows intent

567
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: for them to be retrieved, like they were buried next

568
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: to a tree or something like that, rather than buried

569
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: in a grave, because the grave would indicate that they

570
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: were meant to stay there with the dead body. So

571
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: if you find a treasure trove, all sorts of laws

572
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: kick in, like in in uh in the u K.

573
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: In in England. You know, the Romans were all over

574
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: that place, so people find like hordes of Roman coins,

575
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: like when they're killing the ground in their farms, and

576
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: it used to be like, well that was yours. That's

577
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: not the case any longer. Yeah, sunken treasure, that's a

578
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: big controversial area too, because a lot of those are

579
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: private companies going after what they think is a lot

580
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: of dough. Do you know the gold? That's where the

581
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 1: concept of the camp thing going down with the ship

582
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: came from. How's that so? Uh? I was listening about

583
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: the fairy disaster and like the whether or not the

584
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: captain was supposed to stay on or the Costa concordia.

585
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: The tradition of the captain staying with the ship isn't

586
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: that The captains just well, the ship's going down, so

587
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to die. The captain is supposed to stay

588
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 1: on until the ship is basically totally underwater, and then

589
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: he can get off. It has nothing to do with

590
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 1: him dying. He's supposed to stay on because under maritime law,

591
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: as long as the captains on the ship, it's not

592
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: up for salvage. But the moment the captain leaves the ship,

593
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: it's anybody's anybody who wants to go salvage the thing,

594
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: like that boat has been abandoned once the captain is

595
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: off the ship. So the captain is supposed to stay

596
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: on until it's basically not salvageable anymore. Then he can

597
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: he can leave that just so if a if a

598
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: ship were just a partially sink, then then it's still

599
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: salvageable and there's no captain. Yes, then you can claim it.

600
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: Apparently that the captain is still you know, on top

601
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 1: of the front of the boat, if he's anywhere sticking

602
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: out of the water. He's like, I'm staying, so you

603
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: have to stay too, bartender, that's interesting. Hit me up

604
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: with a balini. Uh. UNESCO in nineteen seventy the UNESCO

605
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 1: Convention established tried to establish some international standards for cultural property. Um.

606
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: But here's the deal with all those international organizations. They

607
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: can't demand that countries join, but they can encourage it,

608
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: and more than a country, a hundred countries have ratified

609
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: it so far. Yeah. But the thing is is like

610
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: even if you join and ratify it, you can still

611
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: violate it. International law is so toothless, it's ridiculous. But um,

612
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: under that convention though, it's like you said, it's usually uh.

613
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: They usually side with the source country of the object

614
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: as far as ownership, which is good, and that seems

615
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: to be the prevailing wind. Now, like the the if

616
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: the source country wants to lay claim to something, you

617
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: should give it back. It's part of a cultural heritage

618
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: that got scattered to the wind in the nineteenth century

619
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: when museums were again employing basically professional grave robbers to

620
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: go get them a bunch of stuff for the museum's collections.

621
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: And now the tides being reversed in a US. That's

622
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: called repatriation. Remember we talked about that in the um

623
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: the Shrunken Heads episode, Like those shrunken heads are being

624
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: repatriated back to the source. Yeah. Part it is something

625
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: that worked for a long time up until the early

626
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: twentieth century. And that is basically, when uh, you dig

627
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: up you let's say, excavate a site and you find

628
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of great artifacts. Um, the country itself keeps

629
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: most of the stuff, but the digger can keep a

630
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: couple of things. And they don't spell out exactly how

631
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 1: many things because it was part. It wasn't like a law.

632
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: But for a long time, if you like, you know,

633
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: excavate a site, like hey, I want to keep these

634
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 1: three things, you can have the rest in the Country's

635
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: like great, that works great. It's like sharing almost, yeah,

636
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: and it's not almost, it's exactly sharing. And so we're

637
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: talking about the black market being pretty hot for antiquities

638
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: and UM artifacts. There's this um group called the International

639
00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: Council of Museums that basically created a list um it's

640
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: called the Red List that they put out I think

641
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, But then they'll put out emergency

642
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: ones too when suddenly, like a black market in a

643
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: certain area heats up, and it's pictures of specific items

644
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: and descriptions saying this item and things like it are

645
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: most likely to be smuggled and illegally sold in the

646
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: black market because there's a big market for him right now.

647
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: It's really interesting to go check out on the like

648
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: the most wanted list for artifacts. Yeah, but they'll they're like,

649
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 1: all the different artifacts that they have are really really

650
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: cool to just kind of browse through. And they have

651
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: a by region and country and stuff like that. What's

652
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: it called, uh, the International Council of Museums. You go

653
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: to their website and look for the Red lists. Those

654
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: guys party too. Have you ever been one of those conventions? Accidentally?

655
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: They are wild? Yeah. If you remember an International Council

656
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: of Museums convention, you weren't there. You didn't do it right?

657
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: All right? I think we should finish up with an

658
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: interesting little bit about the Nazi Party because Hitler in

659
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: the gang were way into archaeology because they believed if

660
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: they could find proof that Germans were the original Aryan

661
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: people's along with Thor and odin the Nordic gods, if

662
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: they could prove that we were the original people's and

663
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: we ran the earth, then that would give them the

664
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: right to go in and take your country. Right. So

665
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: they weren't just interested in things. They were interested in

666
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: trying to prove that they owned the world pretty much. Yeah,

667
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: that they were descended from the Aryan race, which was

668
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 1: the proto Indo European group. Yeah, the mythical yeah yeah, yeah,

669
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: so and that was I was not clear on that,

670
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: like our did the Aryan race definitely exist? Well, I

671
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: think the the Nordic gods, yeah, I don't know about that. Well,

672
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 1: they would be mythical, but yeah, there were the people

673
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: who worship them. They were the Arian race, right, I

674
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: don't know. That's a good question. So I think that

675
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: there was an Arian race in which we would call

676
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: the Nordic or Germanic people. So I think whether or

677
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: not what makes it mythical is the idea of whether

678
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: it was some pure white race made it some master

679
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: race in the eyes of the Nazis, so then it

680
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: may have been a mythical people. We'd love to hear

681
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: from you if you're an expert on early proto Indo

682
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: European cultures. It was there a group called the Arians

683
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: as far as the Nazis were concerned, Yes, there was,

684
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: and that the Nazis were the new version of that, right, yeah,

685
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: for sure. And UH and this started even pre war

686
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: in n Himmler actually founded um, something called the UH.

687
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: And this is German, of course, uh anina be that's

688
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna call it. A h N E N

689
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: E R b E. Don't you speak German? Yeah, but

690
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: that it doesn't look like a German word. It's weird. Yeah,

691
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: it does look a little French. UM. And it was well,

692
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: it was known as the Ancestral Heritage Research and Teaching Society.

693
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: And one of Hitler's bigs big plans was, you know,

694
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: when he took control of Germany, he took control of

695
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: the education system, everything, and he wanted to flood that

696
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: education system with Nazi propaganda. And so they formed this

697
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: you know, they call it a think tank, but what

698
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: they really did was a lot of archaeological digs all

699
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: over the world. Um, like you said, trying to prove

700
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: I mean we're talking Croatia, Greece, Russia, Iceland, North Africa.

701
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: They were going everywhere trying to find traces of what

702
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: they believe were ancient Germans in the original master race,

703
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: right and Um. One of the places they went was

704
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: Iceland because apparently that's where tool t h u l

705
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: E was, which was the seat of the Nordic gods. Right.

706
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: And they looked for um something called the Hoff, which

707
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: was a place where they were supposedly worshiped by the Arians.

708
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 1: And they said, we found it, we found this cave,

709
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: this mystical place of worship. Um. And somebody else came

710
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: along and said, no, this cave wasn't inhabited until the

711
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: eighteenth century, so not the hof. Nazis and then the

712
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: British and the Americans came in occupied Iceland and the

713
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: Nazis were not able to come back. That's just one

714
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: example of their failed expeditions. Right. Yeah, they had eighteen

715
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: archaeological expeditions total, and none of them, uh bore fruit.

716
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: They were fruitless. They were fruitless. They didn't provide any

717
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: information that the Nazis were the original master race because

718
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:42,479
Speaker 1: they were not. That's right. They were just a bunch

719
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: of terrible people, all right. I think you can say

720
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 1: that I'm taking a stand on Nazis. I dare someone

721
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: to write in and to defend the Nazis. Yeah, I

722
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: dare you anything else. Oh you beat me to the punch. No,

723
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: I don't, man um and uh. If you want to

724
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: learn more about archaeology, how stuff Works is a veritable

725
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: library of articles on archaeology, everything you could possibly need

726
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: to know. Basically, you probably would get a degree if

727
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: you read everything on archaeology. Not true, you could, okay possibly?

728
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: Uh and um, just type archaeology into the search part

729
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: how stuff works. Allow me to spell that for you

730
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: A R C H A E O, L O G Y.

731
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: Is that one of those you have to sound out

732
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: in your head? No? Remember that was the first I

733
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: was able to spell that word earlier. I remember, but

734
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: I just know I see it in my head. Okay,

735
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: I see the letters. I think everyone has those words

736
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 1: still though as adults, you sound out that were difficult.

737
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 1: One of mine, for some reason is because I always

738
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: in my head at A B C, A U S

739
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: C and I still do that in my head. Mine

740
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: is uh pretty much anything with the C E I yeah,

741
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: spread oh man, are not just words, and it's even

742
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 1: got that accompanying rhyme I before you accept after see.

743
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: But any time I see a C and there's eyes

744
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: and he's involved, I have to go back and correct myself.

745
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: Basically that's called putting learning into practice. That's a dumb

746
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: I'm a dummy now okay, Oh speaking of speaking of dumb,

747
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: I haven't yet, which means I can still go on forever.

748
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: Go ahead. There are new T shirts available for people

749
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: who like Don't Be Dumb. Yes, Josh's uh Tony Award

750
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: winning web series, Uh would you have me confused? With

751
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: Neil Patrick Harris? Again, I think it's great. I think

752
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: any time if you're getting feedback where people are saying

753
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: this is the best thing I've ever seen and other

754
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: people are saying I don't get it at all, or

755
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: I hate you for making this, that means you're doing

756
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: something genius. Um. So, if you aren't familiar with Don't

757
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: Be Dumb, you can check it out on our website

758
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: or on our YouTube channel. If you are familiar and

759
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: you want a T shirt, you can go to our store. Um,

760
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: if you go to stuff you should know dot com

761
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: you can get to our store in the top navigation

762
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: and there are Josh sent me t shirt. Yeah that's great. Thanks,

763
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: that's a good one. But anyway, since I said all that,

764
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: I imagine chuck. Finally, it's a time at long last

765
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: for listener and mail. I'm gonna call this um thieving mailman.

766
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: I think this is sorry thieving garbage man. Um you're like,

767
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: oh yeah, hey, guys, listen to how tipping works and

768
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: have a funny story. Um. A couple of years ago

769
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: at Christmas, my mom wanted to leave our garbage man

770
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: a nice tip. She says, garbage man. By the way,

771
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: we're not saying that because I know sanitation workers proper term.

772
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: These are Emily Crawford's words. I should preface this by

773
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: saying that our garbage man isn't like the typical city

774
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: pickup guys. He has a small business and he comes

775
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: to collect people's trash at their garages with his pickup truck.

776
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: They must live in the sticks. My parents have a

777
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: long driveway and don't want to drag the trash can

778
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: to the end of the driveway, so they hired this guy.

779
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: My mom put some money and a card and a

780
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: white envelope um as the tip, and she didn't want

781
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: to tape the envelope to the trash bags for fear

782
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: of it being thrown away by accident. And it was wendy,

783
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: so she decided to take it to this iron horsehead

784
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: that we have sitting by a planter next to our

785
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: garage doors. She attached an image, but I don't have it.

786
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: Just imagine, you know, it's a little ring to his nose.

787
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: Later that day, when my mom was, no, this horseheads

788
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: because they have it like on the side. Yeah, they do.

789
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: It's on the side like from their bridle. I'm talking

790
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: about this picture I saw, trust me, I had a

791
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 1: ring through its nose. Yeah. It was like a knocker show. Okay,

792
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: I see that kind of thing. Uh So, later that day,

793
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: when my mom was I love that I looked at

794
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: this picture. You're like, no, it didn't look later that

795
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: are or you're lying eyes. Later that day, when my

796
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: mom was coming back home from running errands, she saw

797
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: that the trash had been picked up and the horsehead

798
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: was gone. The garbage man must have assumed it was

799
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: a gift for him. Well, and he took the envelope

800
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: in the horsehead. It wasn't valuable, but we also didn't

801
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 1: want to give it away. We never got it back

802
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: and never brought it up to the garbage man. But

803
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: I laugh when I think about his reaction was probably

804
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: what the heck? They gave me this envelope and a horsehead? Uh.

805
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: And I just hope you put it in his house somewhere,

806
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: So I hope you get a little laugh out of this.

807
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: We did from Emily Crawford. Nice, thanks a lot, Emily Crawford.

808
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: That's good stuff. And somewhere there that sanitation worker has

809
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: your your family heirloom. Um, that's a good story. You

810
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: know what. It reminded me of what the greatest movie

811
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: starring Emilia Westeves and Charlie Sheen ever made, Men at Work.

812
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: I never saw that. What I did not see it.

813
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: That is a good movie. You need to see that.

814
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: I know they're sanitation guys and they find something valuable,

815
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 1: probably that someone else wants and so they're in trouble

816
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: for it. But you just wrote the script. Yeah, no,

817
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: it's but all the hijinks set ensue in the meantime

818
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: are hilarious. Great supporting cats too, including Chainsaw from Summer

819
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: school Boy. Man. I love your taste of movies. It

820
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: runs the gamut, So uh? Is that it? That's it?

821
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: If you want to tell us a cute story about

822
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: your family, we love to hear those. You can tweet

823
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: to us at s y SK podcast. You can join

824
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff you Should Know.

825
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at

826
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: Discovery dot com and join us at our home on

827
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: the web, our place for great t shirts. Stuff you

828
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: Should Know dot com for more on this and thousands

829
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works dot com