WEBVTT - Maya Hawke and Christian Lee Hutson - Live from SXSW 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.316 --> 0:00:23.436 Mya Hawk first became known to audiences as an actress, 0:00:23.796 --> 0:00:26.796 especially through her work in Stranger Things and in film, 0:00:27.236 --> 0:00:29.556 but she's been quietly building in parallel life as a 0:00:29.596 --> 0:00:33.316 songwriter of genuine depth. Since her debut album Blush in 0:00:33.356 --> 0:00:37.556 twenty twenty, she's released four records that are ever more reflective. 0:00:38.156 --> 0:00:41.676 By Treya Corso, her fourth album arrives at a formative 0:00:41.676 --> 0:00:45.156 moment in Hawk's life, following her marriage to longtime musical 0:00:45.156 --> 0:00:49.836 collaborator Christian Lee Hudson. The album's built around a central 0:00:49.876 --> 0:00:53.316 persona named my Trea Corso, who serves as a conduit 0:00:53.356 --> 0:00:57.636 for exploring themes of ego, ambition, and creation. Recorded in 0:00:57.676 --> 0:01:00.316 Woodstock in New York City late last year, the album's 0:01:00.356 --> 0:01:04.036 co produced by Hudson and Jonathan Lowe, with album's artwork 0:01:04.076 --> 0:01:08.476 taken from watercolor paintings made by Maya herself. On today's episode, 0:01:08.516 --> 0:01:11.236 recorded live from South by Southwest, I sat down with 0:01:11.276 --> 0:01:14.036 Maya Hawk and husband and co producer Christian Lee Hudson 0:01:14.196 --> 0:01:17.676 to talk about the making of My Treo Corso. Together, 0:01:17.716 --> 0:01:20.396 they reflect on the development of their artistic lives separately, 0:01:20.756 --> 0:01:24.076 Maya and New York and Christian mostly in LA, but 0:01:24.156 --> 0:01:26.156 also what it's like to come together as partners in 0:01:26.196 --> 0:01:33.396 life as well as music. This is broken record, real musicians, 0:01:33.636 --> 0:01:42.356 real conversations. Here's my interview with Maya Hawk and Christian 0:01:42.436 --> 0:01:47.036 Lee Hudson live from south By, Southwest, Hi. 0:01:47.636 --> 0:01:55.196 All right, thanks for having. 0:01:54.996 --> 0:01:57.476 Us, No, thanks for coming, Thanks for being here. It's 0:01:57.476 --> 0:02:00.116 cool to be in Austin and south By Southwest. 0:02:00.196 --> 0:02:00.956 It certainly is. 0:02:01.156 --> 0:02:02.556 This is one of my I think I'm out on 0:02:02.596 --> 0:02:03.076 the flight here. 0:02:03.116 --> 0:02:07.156 There's like five American cities that feel like they have 0:02:07.196 --> 0:02:09.356 their own internal logic different from any other. 0:02:09.556 --> 0:02:10.396 You know, it doesn't feel like that. 0:02:10.596 --> 0:02:12.796 It's not better then, it's just very different than any 0:02:12.836 --> 0:02:16.996 other part of America. New Orleans feels that way. New 0:02:17.076 --> 0:02:20.756 York feels that way. I would throw LA in the 0:02:20.796 --> 0:02:23.556 Bay or the LA Area, the Bay Area in Austin, 0:02:23.636 --> 0:02:26.396 you know, I feel like, just completely their own unique. 0:02:27.156 --> 0:02:28.916 Chicago's kind of unique. 0:02:28.556 --> 0:02:33.636 Too, are Chicago? And would agree, Yeah, you know what 0:02:33.836 --> 0:02:36.236 that that is true? That is true, and it has 0:02:36.876 --> 0:02:37.956 it certainly has a history. 0:02:38.036 --> 0:02:39.036 All those other cities do. 0:02:39.236 --> 0:02:42.036 So I wouldn't. I wouldn't take that. How did you, guys, 0:02:42.076 --> 0:02:43.716 just musical connections start? 0:02:43.756 --> 0:02:45.836 What where? How did you guys start playing. 0:02:45.556 --> 0:02:48.396 Together via email, so I was going to say, yeah, 0:02:48.436 --> 0:02:52.356 the Postal Service, we yeah, exactly. We have a mutual 0:02:52.396 --> 0:02:56.556 friend named Benjaminlizzard Davis who produced my second record, Moss, 0:02:56.596 --> 0:03:02.356 and played bass on my first record, and he knew 0:03:02.436 --> 0:03:04.556 Christian from working on Aquaville River. 0:03:05.116 --> 0:03:08.716 Right exactly, which which you I which? 0:03:08.716 --> 0:03:10.916 I did a tour with them and just met the 0:03:10.996 --> 0:03:15.156 band kind of and then the guy Will the songwriter 0:03:15.236 --> 0:03:17.676 and I wrote a few songs together cool. 0:03:17.636 --> 0:03:20.156 And Benjamin joined them. That's he's a member. 0:03:20.196 --> 0:03:22.076 Now he's like on again. 0:03:22.356 --> 0:03:24.916 It's like one of those bands like Bright Eyes, where 0:03:24.916 --> 0:03:26.516 it's like who is the members of it? 0:03:26.596 --> 0:03:29.156 I don't know any who? Who's who? Round right? 0:03:29.236 --> 0:03:29.356 Right? 0:03:29.436 --> 0:03:29.636 Yeah? 0:03:29.756 --> 0:03:29.956 Right? 0:03:30.036 --> 0:03:30.236 Yeah? 0:03:30.356 --> 0:03:30.876 Collective? 0:03:31.076 --> 0:03:34.196 But Will and Ben were on that tour. Will is 0:03:34.196 --> 0:03:36.676 obviously Akuaville rover, but then there's another Will will Graffe 0:03:36.716 --> 0:03:39.556 who's also been playing with me since I started who 0:03:39.716 --> 0:03:42.076 We were on that tour with Christian And then I 0:03:42.116 --> 0:03:43.996 asked Ben to work on this record with me, or 0:03:44.036 --> 0:03:46.796 really to work on an EP. And then all of 0:03:46.796 --> 0:03:49.236 a sudden, I had like nine more days off of 0:03:49.276 --> 0:03:51.396 Stranger Things than I was supposed to have and was like, 0:03:51.396 --> 0:03:53.156 what if instead of making an EP. We made a 0:03:53.236 --> 0:03:55.556 record because we've got some extra time. So then we 0:03:55.596 --> 0:03:58.836 had like two months to write six more songs. And 0:03:58.996 --> 0:04:02.396 I was sending Ben and Will like poems every single 0:04:02.476 --> 0:04:05.556 day and they were, I think, drowning in poems with 0:04:05.636 --> 0:04:07.636 which to put music to, and they were and Ben 0:04:07.716 --> 0:04:09.916 was like, can I send some of your music to 0:04:09.956 --> 0:04:11.836 Can I send one of your poems to Christian? And 0:04:11.876 --> 0:04:14.116 I never responded to the email, and then I got 0:04:14.156 --> 0:04:16.596 an email from the purpose like no, I just am 0:04:16.596 --> 0:04:20.716 bad at my email and uh, and I never responded 0:04:20.716 --> 0:04:23.156 and then I got an email from Christian mean I 0:04:23.196 --> 0:04:26.196 got your poem. And then I was so embarrassed because 0:04:26.196 --> 0:04:28.996 I was a big fan of Christians and was like, 0:04:29.316 --> 0:04:31.956 oh no, oh that poem that was just a first draft. 0:04:32.076 --> 0:04:34.276 Please let me send you an editor. Don't work on 0:04:34.436 --> 0:04:37.636 that yet. But we've gone back since and like read 0:04:38.316 --> 0:04:43.116 those early emails and they're actually very sweet and they're awesome. Yeah, 0:04:43.156 --> 0:04:43.596 they're awesome. 0:04:43.596 --> 0:04:45.756 So that's how he was a great first poem too. 0:04:46.076 --> 0:04:48.196 I wouldn't. I was like, this is awesome. 0:04:48.636 --> 0:04:52.196 Ben sends crazy emails and that was a really good one. 0:04:52.076 --> 0:04:55.516 Because good, yeah, yeah for you did it feel like 0:04:55.636 --> 0:04:58.636 this is maybe like the idea of it, like you're okay, 0:04:58.636 --> 0:05:02.716 you're going to get these poems in some form and 0:05:03.236 --> 0:05:05.196 write to them. Is that is that like a typical 0:05:06.556 --> 0:05:08.396 process for you or did that feel like were you 0:05:08.436 --> 0:05:11.796 surprised by how he's easy or natural? 0:05:11.876 --> 0:05:16.956 That process was kind of I mean I was writing. 0:05:17.556 --> 0:05:19.276 I like to write in a lot of different ways, 0:05:19.276 --> 0:05:21.076 and that was a really fun way to be. Like, 0:05:22.396 --> 0:05:24.156 you know, sometimes you'll go in a room and someone 0:05:24.236 --> 0:05:28.556 has like seventy five percent of a song and you're like, cool, 0:05:28.636 --> 0:05:31.276 I'm just gonna throw out some like ideas for the 0:05:31.316 --> 0:05:33.756 last twenty five percent and there this was a fun 0:05:33.756 --> 0:05:36.156 way to just be like this has no music and 0:05:36.276 --> 0:05:38.796 no you get to decide what the rules are because 0:05:39.236 --> 0:05:42.476 it's also COVID. Yeah, so I was just sitting in 0:05:42.516 --> 0:05:45.996 my closet like with my guitar being trying to figure 0:05:46.036 --> 0:05:47.956 out how to what made the most sense out of 0:05:47.996 --> 0:05:50.956 the things. So it was different and fun and immediately 0:05:50.956 --> 0:05:52.356 I was like, send me another poem. 0:05:52.876 --> 0:05:55.196 Yeah, And then we had really a lot of fun 0:05:55.276 --> 0:05:57.156 and we met kind of making that record. 0:05:57.756 --> 0:05:58.516 It's incredible. 0:05:59.916 --> 0:06:01.836 I want to get back to just sort of the 0:06:01.876 --> 0:06:04.516 evolution of how you guys got to the latest record. 0:06:05.036 --> 0:06:08.956 But I mean, it's interesting because you or maybe maybe 0:06:08.956 --> 0:06:11.036 I'm wrong, but I'm just gonna say this, you're not 0:06:11.116 --> 0:06:14.036 primarily like a songwriter or you were new to it 0:06:14.076 --> 0:06:15.236 at the time, right right. 0:06:15.836 --> 0:06:18.836 I would argue with that, I would, but I would say, 0:06:18.836 --> 0:06:21.636 but I don't just maybe it's let. 0:06:21.556 --> 0:06:22.036 You up here. 0:06:22.156 --> 0:06:26.516 Yeah, I would say that is constantly writing songs. 0:06:26.556 --> 0:06:28.756 She writes songs every single day. 0:06:28.836 --> 0:06:31.116 She is a naturally in the form of like in 0:06:31.156 --> 0:06:34.636 the absolutely I feel like before I like I am 0:06:34.636 --> 0:06:38.556 even awake, there's like a full, like a complete song 0:06:38.636 --> 0:06:40.836 that I'm just like, what the fuck is this? 0:06:41.236 --> 0:06:43.316 Well, okay, What I will say is that a big 0:06:43.356 --> 0:06:46.996 part of what's happened in my own musical evolution, so 0:06:47.076 --> 0:06:50.516 to speak, is that Christian, when we worked on Moss together, 0:06:50.676 --> 0:06:55.316 was so encouraging and was so like, well, actually show me, 0:06:55.396 --> 0:06:57.756 like when you wrote this poem, what music did you imagine? 0:06:58.196 --> 0:06:59.916 And I would play it for him and you'd be like, wait, 0:06:59.956 --> 0:07:00.516 that's good. 0:07:00.956 --> 0:07:01.516 What do you like? 0:07:01.596 --> 0:07:04.356 Why didn't we do that? And I was like, no, 0:07:04.396 --> 0:07:08.076 it's not, it's trash. Because I was a very fortunate 0:07:08.276 --> 0:07:10.996 young person who who was around artists my whole life. 0:07:11.036 --> 0:07:12.996 And around amazing musicians my whole life, and people that 0:07:13.036 --> 0:07:16.596 were so good at guitar and piano that it felt 0:07:16.676 --> 0:07:19.236 embarrassing to pick up an instrument in front of them, 0:07:19.356 --> 0:07:22.716 you know, and who were such extraordinary composers and instrumentalists 0:07:22.756 --> 0:07:24.916 that it didn't feel like I had anything to offer. 0:07:24.956 --> 0:07:27.476 And Christian was kind of the person that entered my 0:07:27.556 --> 0:07:30.876 life and was like, you have something to offer, because 0:07:30.916 --> 0:07:33.236 it is you that is offering it. It's not about 0:07:33.276 --> 0:07:38.156 the jazz school. It's about the nature of your heart 0:07:38.716 --> 0:07:41.116 and like the truth that you know the music and 0:07:41.156 --> 0:07:43.676 the words and how they combined. And so that sort 0:07:43.716 --> 0:07:48.956 of encouragement working on Moss kind of created Chaos Angel 0:07:48.996 --> 0:07:51.636 in a lot of ways because that was a product 0:07:51.676 --> 0:07:53.796 of me being like, oh, I can incorporate my own 0:07:53.836 --> 0:07:55.356 melodies and I can write music. 0:07:55.596 --> 0:07:57.996 And that was your third album. 0:07:58.036 --> 0:08:00.156 So by the time you did your third album, you 0:08:00.196 --> 0:08:02.676 did start to have more confidence in yourself as a 0:08:02.716 --> 0:08:05.596 person who is writing songs. 0:08:06.036 --> 0:08:09.436 Absolutely and I and like, which isn't say that I 0:08:09.436 --> 0:08:11.516 wrote them by myself. I didn't at all, but I 0:08:11.556 --> 0:08:13.476 would instead of coming to the table with just a 0:08:13.476 --> 0:08:15.116 piece of paper with words on it, I would come 0:08:15.156 --> 0:08:18.156 to the table being like, this is what I've been playing, Like, 0:08:18.276 --> 0:08:20.596 what do you think? I really like this chorus, but 0:08:20.636 --> 0:08:22.996 the verse melody sucks. Let's make it better. You know, 0:08:23.316 --> 0:08:25.396 it was a sort of more. Wouldn't you say that 0:08:25.396 --> 0:08:27.276 that's an accurate description of the vibe. 0:08:27.916 --> 0:08:31.116 Yeah, I think that's a really accurate description. I think 0:08:31.316 --> 0:08:35.276 that you like chronically underestimate what because most of the. 0:08:35.276 --> 0:08:36.916 Musical you're working on it. 0:08:37.156 --> 0:08:39.756 I know most of the musical ideas that you have. 0:08:39.796 --> 0:08:44.036 I'm like, wow, this is so fucking heady and trippy, and. 0:08:44.516 --> 0:08:47.396 There's a certain maginner's mind when you don't know, like 0:08:47.636 --> 0:08:50.196 what the rules are, you don't know that you're breaking. 0:08:49.916 --> 0:08:53.236 Them in a way very very good underc I am. 0:08:53.236 --> 0:08:55.916 Very good at turning a compliment into an insult. It's 0:08:56.196 --> 0:08:58.596 it's truly makes me wonderful to be around. 0:08:58.916 --> 0:08:59.196 That is. 0:09:00.476 --> 0:09:02.716 I'll be like, oh, so you're saying I look beautiful 0:09:02.716 --> 0:09:05.516 by what you mean, I'm dumb? You know, It's like, really, 0:09:05.716 --> 0:09:08.556 I'm you know, it's really there's a lot of fun 0:09:08.596 --> 0:09:10.076 ways to sentence. 0:09:09.956 --> 0:09:13.996 Really convoluted to go from. 0:09:12.676 --> 0:09:16.036 You I'm a pleasure you are actually? 0:09:16.116 --> 0:09:16.316 Yeah? 0:09:17.236 --> 0:09:19.236 Is the inverse true? Like if someone says you're smart. 0:09:19.236 --> 0:09:20.956 Do you feel like, well, why aren't you complimentary? 0:09:20.956 --> 0:09:21.996 Come on, aren't I beautiful? 0:09:22.076 --> 0:09:23.916 Yeah? What do you mean? 0:09:23.996 --> 0:09:24.636 I'm smart? 0:09:24.676 --> 0:09:25.476 Do you know what I think about this? 0:09:25.996 --> 0:09:26.916 So you're saying I'm ugly? 0:09:27.236 --> 0:09:28.156 I have three daughters. 0:09:28.356 --> 0:09:30.356 Yeah, well one's a baby so that she doesn't really count, 0:09:30.356 --> 0:09:32.516 but I have so two daughters are sentient in the 0:09:32.556 --> 0:09:34.196 sense of they can understand what I'm saying. 0:09:34.236 --> 0:09:37.516 I can kind of screw them up or or or or. 0:09:37.596 --> 0:09:39.796 Maybe set them up for some sort of you know, 0:09:40.076 --> 0:09:43.516 healthy life, you know, And I'm always like, oh, wow, 0:09:43.556 --> 0:09:44.996 you look so beautiful. I'm like, oh, yeah, but you're 0:09:45.036 --> 0:09:47.076 smart too, Like how was he like? Fuck, I shouldn't 0:09:47.076 --> 0:09:48.756 have just said that. I'll be like, oh, you're so smart, 0:09:48.756 --> 0:09:49.876 and I'm like, oh, I don't want her to think 0:09:49.876 --> 0:09:50.156 she's just. 0:09:50.156 --> 0:09:52.396 Like a nerd. Oh you're beautiful too, And I don't know. 0:09:52.556 --> 0:09:52.916 I don't know. 0:09:52.916 --> 0:09:56.436 I'm very neurotic about like balancing any compliment I make 0:09:56.476 --> 0:09:56.716 with him. 0:09:57.036 --> 0:09:59.596 Yeah, being a woman sucks, you know. I mean there's 0:09:59.676 --> 0:10:01.916 just like it's like there's just like it's all bad. 0:10:02.076 --> 0:10:05.876 Oh don't clap for that. No, it's okay, but like 0:10:05.996 --> 0:10:08.436 it's all bad. But I will. I think as long 0:10:08.476 --> 0:10:11.476 as neither one is that heavy, you know, I mean, 0:10:11.516 --> 0:10:13.356 smart can be heavy. But I think it's just all 0:10:13.396 --> 0:10:16.596 about like, Yeah, it's not about what your parents says. 0:10:17.116 --> 0:10:19.836 It's about what you think they value about you. Yeah, 0:10:19.876 --> 0:10:22.716 and like, And I think that kind of extends more broadly. 0:10:22.996 --> 0:10:25.076 You know, your partner or your friends. It's not about 0:10:25.076 --> 0:10:26.516 what they say to you. Like your best friend can 0:10:26.556 --> 0:10:28.076 be like, you're such a match, and you'll be like, 0:10:28.356 --> 0:10:30.916 I know, you know, but like that, and that's a 0:10:30.956 --> 0:10:33.836 wonderful and it's a compliment. And so it's it's never 0:10:33.876 --> 0:10:35.676 about what the words are. I think it's always about 0:10:35.676 --> 0:10:39.796 the feeling behind the words. When it comes to intimate relationships. 0:10:39.316 --> 0:10:42.116 Yes, the intents, the intent or perceived intent. 0:10:42.196 --> 0:10:45.956 At least in terms of when there's intimacy, it's about intent. Yes, 0:10:46.076 --> 0:10:48.316 when it's a stranger, it's about what you said. 0:10:48.636 --> 0:10:51.156 I think generally right, Yes, that does make sense. 0:10:51.156 --> 0:10:52.676 I mean I hadn't really thought about it or broke 0:10:52.676 --> 0:10:55.036 it down the way, but I think that's probably accurate. 0:10:55.116 --> 0:10:55.876 Yeah. 0:10:56.236 --> 0:11:00.556 I'm curious about because you both are really you know, 0:11:01.516 --> 0:11:05.396 potent artists and engaged artists who have had different paths, 0:11:05.596 --> 0:11:07.036 you know, each have had your different path and they've 0:11:07.116 --> 0:11:10.236 kind of converged in this way. But what was your 0:11:10.276 --> 0:11:12.476 experience with the arts growing up? Like, what was your 0:11:12.476 --> 0:11:15.876 relationship with it both in terms of how was it 0:11:15.916 --> 0:11:16.996 introduced to you and then how. 0:11:16.836 --> 0:11:18.796 Did it sort of evolve on your own. 0:11:18.836 --> 0:11:20.956 How did it become something that you sort of took 0:11:21.516 --> 0:11:23.556 ownership of and felt like, well, this is like for me, 0:11:24.116 --> 0:11:25.796 Like I grew up with a lot of I grew 0:11:25.876 --> 0:11:27.916 up with my grandma who was from Detroit, So I 0:11:27.956 --> 0:11:29.556 just grew up in Motown in the house, and I 0:11:29.556 --> 0:11:31.516 thought to the point I thought it was new music. 0:11:31.716 --> 0:11:33.236 But then I got to junior high, I got into 0:11:33.276 --> 0:11:35.316 skateboarding and I was like, oh, the Ramones, like that's 0:11:35.356 --> 0:11:39.076 my music, you know, and that sort of and then 0:11:39.116 --> 0:11:42.236 you circle bas circle back at some point to Motown. 0:11:42.276 --> 0:11:44.516 But I did, at some point sort to forge my 0:11:44.596 --> 0:11:49.436 own identity and art outside of whatever my family thought. 0:11:49.836 --> 0:11:52.636 We we're kind of curious how you guys, What do 0:11:52.636 --> 0:11:54.636 you guys came up with and how you guys started 0:11:54.756 --> 0:11:58.756 what music and art sorted to be formative in your 0:11:58.756 --> 0:11:59.876 own sort of identity. 0:12:00.196 --> 0:12:01.956 I'm going to set you up, and I'm going to 0:12:01.996 --> 0:12:04.036 set you up by saying that I think that we 0:12:04.236 --> 0:12:08.316 know positive like you see it positive, like just one. 0:12:08.356 --> 0:12:11.236 I think the thing is cool about our friendship and 0:12:11.476 --> 0:12:16.116 collaboration is that we had really different experiences. Like I 0:12:16.276 --> 0:12:19.476 was drowned in the arts, and I think Christian really 0:12:19.516 --> 0:12:21.596 had to find it on his own. 0:12:22.396 --> 0:12:22.796 I didn't. 0:12:22.876 --> 0:12:24.996 I don't know if if somebody said the arts when 0:12:25.036 --> 0:12:26.316 I was a kid, I don't know if I would 0:12:26.396 --> 0:12:28.556 know what they were talking about. Really, there was no 0:12:28.796 --> 0:12:32.316 like art in my life there, but there was. Weirdly, 0:12:32.396 --> 0:12:34.596 there was Motown like a lot of My grandmother was 0:12:34.636 --> 0:12:37.476 a record collector, but like didn't talk about the arts. 0:12:37.556 --> 0:12:41.636 She just grew up in Chattanooga and like was loved 0:12:42.316 --> 0:12:45.676 getting Stax records and Motown records and showed me all 0:12:45.716 --> 0:12:47.596 of that and and. 0:12:47.556 --> 0:12:50.476 I did that take. Absolutely. I was obsessed with it. 0:12:50.516 --> 0:12:52.796 But I also thought it was new music, which was 0:12:52.876 --> 0:12:54.596 very funny because I would like take it to school 0:12:54.716 --> 0:12:57.676 and it was like wow, no one kind of knew 0:12:57.676 --> 0:12:59.076 what I was talking about, like, oh, yeah, it's a 0:12:59.116 --> 0:13:01.836 song from like remember the Titans or something or whatever, 0:13:02.356 --> 0:13:06.036 and yeah, so I didn't really know about it. And 0:13:06.116 --> 0:13:09.356 when I was like a teenager and there was an 0:13:09.436 --> 0:13:12.036 arts program in school. I went to like a fundamentalist 0:13:12.076 --> 0:13:14.996 Christian school where there was like art was like I 0:13:15.036 --> 0:13:18.516 don't know, it's like a poem about Jesus maybe or something. 0:13:18.596 --> 0:13:21.556 But yeah, yeah, versus. 0:13:21.556 --> 0:13:23.836 I went to a high school where, not while I 0:13:23.956 --> 0:13:26.676 was there, but in its origin, the headmaster used to 0:13:26.676 --> 0:13:28.596 take parents on school tours and say that if the 0:13:28.596 --> 0:13:30.916 students didn't have interracial sex and tried to at least 0:13:30.916 --> 0:13:33.396 three different drugs before they graduated, he would consider himself 0:13:33.396 --> 0:13:33.876 a failure. 0:13:34.516 --> 0:13:36.916 So yeah, I had a very different headmaster. 0:13:37.276 --> 0:13:40.476 It's very different priorities than you, really different priorities. 0:13:40.836 --> 0:13:43.596 You know, he had his own issues Stanley Bosworth. But 0:13:43.676 --> 0:13:46.556 what I mean to say generally is that I I 0:13:47.316 --> 0:13:51.156 really was just like the arts seemed like the main option. 0:13:51.796 --> 0:13:55.116 Like I kind of remember meeting people with other jobs 0:13:55.156 --> 0:13:57.436 and being like what do you do and people would 0:13:57.436 --> 0:14:02.276 tell me to be like why you know, and and 0:14:02.596 --> 0:14:04.836 just like you know, a normal thing to do every 0:14:04.836 --> 0:14:07.156 weekend was go to the Metropolitan Museum r of Art 0:14:07.236 --> 0:14:09.476 and like go to the Nutcracker. Like it was just 0:14:09.516 --> 0:14:15.436 like everything was art and music and film and storytelling 0:14:15.476 --> 0:14:19.676 and so it's something really cool about getting to work 0:14:19.716 --> 0:14:24.036 with you is to kind of combine this like art 0:14:24.116 --> 0:14:27.596 as revenge and art as identity that I feel like 0:14:27.676 --> 0:14:31.356 you hold where like I couldn't rebel by being an artist. 0:14:31.836 --> 0:14:34.476 That was not a rebellion for me, true, but it 0:14:34.596 --> 0:14:37.676 was for you. And I feel like I love getting 0:14:37.676 --> 0:14:40.116 to like bring the feeling of like, no art is everywhere, 0:14:40.196 --> 0:14:42.796 art is everything, and you can bring the like art 0:14:42.876 --> 0:14:45.756 is rebellion, art is crazy, and we can kind of 0:14:45.796 --> 0:14:47.876 combine that in a way that feels really cool. 0:14:47.996 --> 0:14:50.116 Yeah, growing up in I mean, like you said, you 0:14:50.156 --> 0:14:52.316 grew up steep in the arts and in New York City, 0:14:52.716 --> 0:14:55.236 so like art probably has to go pretty far for 0:14:55.316 --> 0:14:57.916 you to feel like it's rebellious. 0:14:57.396 --> 0:15:01.596 Right, I Mean this walks us down a whole new 0:15:01.676 --> 0:15:03.476 rabbit hole that we could talk about forever, which is like, 0:15:03.516 --> 0:15:06.676 how do you make rebellious art now? How do you 0:15:06.716 --> 0:15:07.636 make protest art? 0:15:07.676 --> 0:15:07.916 Now? 0:15:09.196 --> 0:15:13.356 Don't have an answer, Like I it's very it seems 0:15:13.516 --> 0:15:18.796 very borderline impossible because of the way that the Internet 0:15:18.796 --> 0:15:22.676 works and the way that like moments happen and like 0:15:22.836 --> 0:15:25.836 niche niches happen, and how difficult it. Like I was 0:15:26.196 --> 0:15:28.556 reading something about you know, like it used to be 0:15:28.596 --> 0:15:30.476 so the way David Bowie dress used to be so 0:15:30.556 --> 0:15:35.036 transgressive and now it's like Harry Styles and Ben's and 0:15:35.076 --> 0:15:37.516 Boone and like, you know, everyone dresses like David Bowie 0:15:37.556 --> 0:15:41.436 and so how what could you possibly wear that would 0:15:41.436 --> 0:15:45.236 be transgressive? Yeah, I don't, Like, I don't have an idea. 0:15:45.436 --> 0:15:48.076 What sound could you make? That's what I don't. I 0:15:48.156 --> 0:15:48.716 don't know. 0:15:48.596 --> 0:15:52.076 I know, like the Yoko Ono is like the closest 0:15:52.196 --> 0:15:55.596 like still, I mean, yeah, like that's the most transgressive. 0:15:56.196 --> 0:15:59.036 It's just bad. It's like, oh, not that she's bad, 0:15:59.156 --> 0:16:00.716 but like what I just did is bad. 0:16:00.756 --> 0:16:04.276 Well, she's amazing. Is transgressive at all anymore? Because everything 0:16:04.356 --> 0:16:04.876 is everything? 0:16:05.116 --> 0:16:06.516 Yeah, And the only way you can pretend to be 0:16:06.516 --> 0:16:10.116 transgressive is to like be ugly or unfortunate or like 0:16:10.636 --> 0:16:13.036 like like make it or make some make a sound 0:16:13.076 --> 0:16:14.996 that like no one wants to hear, I mean, like 0:16:15.276 --> 0:16:17.316 sonically ugly. By the way, the. 0:16:17.316 --> 0:16:19.316 Biggest way it could be transgressed is just shut the 0:16:19.356 --> 0:16:19.836 fuck up. 0:16:20.036 --> 0:16:22.236 Yeah, that would be a crazy rebellion. 0:16:22.556 --> 0:16:25.316 Yeah, we all are obsessed with ourselves. 0:16:25.396 --> 0:16:28.676 I guess getting off the internet you mentioned quitting social media. 0:16:28.916 --> 0:16:30.276 I don't know if I heard that right, But getting 0:16:30.316 --> 0:16:32.196 off the Internet, I guess is which is it's I 0:16:32.236 --> 0:16:35.036 don't want to say it's a week a week way 0:16:35.076 --> 0:16:38.036 it'll be transgressive, but it's I mean, in the grand 0:16:38.036 --> 0:16:39.516 scheme of things, is I guess it's not that it's 0:16:39.556 --> 0:16:40.876 more of a personal thing than it is. 0:16:40.876 --> 0:16:41.596 It's psych I. 0:16:41.596 --> 0:16:43.436 Don't think I even get any points for being off 0:16:43.476 --> 0:16:46.236 social media because I'm still benefiting from it and profiting 0:16:46.276 --> 0:16:48.916 from it because I have the capacity to have someone 0:16:48.996 --> 0:16:51.836 who can like run my social media for me, right, 0:16:51.956 --> 0:16:54.996 So I like, that's not not a rebellion at all 0:16:55.276 --> 0:16:58.836 because I'm entirely participating in the system of it. I'm 0:16:58.876 --> 0:17:02.476 just trying to protect my own brain and peace from it. Yeah, 0:17:02.516 --> 0:17:06.916 so that's like zero rebellion. That's like, that's just like 0:17:06.956 --> 0:17:10.756 walling yourself in, which is working for me. But like 0:17:10.796 --> 0:17:12.916 I wouldn't brag about. 0:17:13.236 --> 0:17:15.156 We'll be right back with more from Maya and Christian 0:17:15.436 --> 0:17:21.396 after the break, but we'll talk about a song like 0:17:21.516 --> 0:17:26.156 Lioness on your new album is something that seems like 0:17:26.196 --> 0:17:30.276 it's a large degree ripped out of your life, but 0:17:30.756 --> 0:17:32.516 probably that there's also some things in there that we 0:17:32.556 --> 0:17:34.516 wouldn't necessarily recognize. 0:17:34.596 --> 0:17:37.236 You know, Well, I guess I would say that I 0:17:37.276 --> 0:17:41.036 think that that song. Miley Cyrus actually talks about this, 0:17:41.116 --> 0:17:42.796 and I quote her all the time about it, which 0:17:42.796 --> 0:17:44.636 is that like every I wish I could remember her 0:17:44.676 --> 0:17:48.036 pithy way of describing it, I don't, but that every 0:17:48.236 --> 0:17:53.636 song is like a an encapsulation of a singular emotion, 0:17:54.516 --> 0:17:57.396 or like like we are we contain multitudes, right, Like 0:17:57.596 --> 0:17:59.076 sometimes you wake up in the morning You're like, I 0:17:59.116 --> 0:18:00.716 hate my life, and then an hour later like I 0:18:00.756 --> 0:18:03.076 love my life, and then like you're you know, like 0:18:03.156 --> 0:18:06.396 we are always so many people, and a lot of 0:18:06.436 --> 0:18:08.836 the time, one thing that helps write a song is 0:18:08.876 --> 0:18:12.916 to zero in on a specific feeling and to take 0:18:12.956 --> 0:18:15.196 out all the nuance and all the different ways in 0:18:15.236 --> 0:18:18.276 which you know you don't really feel that way, and 0:18:18.316 --> 0:18:21.556 to add as much breath and life and blood into 0:18:21.556 --> 0:18:25.476 this singular feeling as possible. And I think that Lioness 0:18:25.636 --> 0:18:28.156 is a song about a moment where I was really 0:18:28.236 --> 0:18:33.116 struggling with gratitude and like, you know, I had had 0:18:33.156 --> 0:18:35.636 all my dreams come true. I was doing the thing 0:18:35.676 --> 0:18:37.356 that I love most in the world, and I was 0:18:37.396 --> 0:18:39.476 doing it and was able to take care of myself 0:18:40.436 --> 0:18:44.196 and provide for myself, and that was everything I wanted, 0:18:44.196 --> 0:18:48.196 and I was really depressed and really not feeling the magic, 0:18:48.276 --> 0:18:53.476