Speaker 1: What's that at my bed? It's spooky.
Speaker 2: I'm jooky.
Speaker 1: I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming.
Speaker 3: It's way Wait a minute, I said, I runs dressed ends.
Speaker 1: P hey boo, it's me Runs. How are you me?
Speaker 3: I'll be honest, I'm exhausted. I I just completed another
Speaker 3: weekend of eight performances, and I am you know, I
Speaker 3: went from doing pretty much nothing for a year and
Speaker 3: a half to being go go, go, go go.
Speaker 1: And it's lovely.
Speaker 3: I absolutely I'm in heaven, but I'm also like exhausted.
Speaker 3: My body's not used to it. But I had a
Speaker 3: really cool celebrity that came to the show, and you know,
Speaker 3: I'm always looking out from my babies. I had to say, hey,
Speaker 3: you got a ghost story? You believe in that stuff?
Speaker 3: And this particular celebrity was like, I love that stuff,
Speaker 3: and so I'm working it out. Actually we have it
Speaker 3: on the on the calendar to record an episode, so
Speaker 3: I never like to say who, what, when, where any
Speaker 3: of that until it's been done. But I have a
Speaker 3: really fun one coming up soon, so look out for that.
Speaker 3: I also was talking to the Cavern Club Theater, where
Speaker 3: I've been performing the past few weekends. And that's also
Speaker 3: where I used to do my live shows, and I
Speaker 3: was taught talking to them about, hey, what's going on
Speaker 3: around Halloween time? Just curious, no reason in particular, just curious.
Speaker 3: And turns out, Uh, I might be able. I might
Speaker 3: be able to pull off doing maybe a live show.
Speaker 3: I don't know, would you come here in Los Angeles
Speaker 3: a live show, guests, performances, ghosts.
Speaker 1: Maybe. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's a possibility, so uh, stay tuned. I mean, if
Speaker 3: people want it, if you want it, I'll do it.
Speaker 3: How about that? Sorry, I don't know if you can
Speaker 3: hear Rocky. He is right by my side because I've
Speaker 3: been so busy that he's been locked up and away
Speaker 3: from me and he's not used to that. And we're
Speaker 3: still recording from home at this moment, so he is
Speaker 3: nestled here right beside me, and a lot of people
Speaker 3: have asked me thank you so much. He was very,
Speaker 3: very sick for a while. I think it was Kennel
Speaker 3: Koff or something but old so it was like bad
Speaker 3: and now he's much much better, so cuter than ever.
Speaker 3: That's the good news.
Speaker 1: Anyway.
Speaker 3: Now today on the episode, I have one of my
Speaker 3: absolute favorites. Someone I am in awe of Katrina Widman. Now,
Speaker 3: Katrina Widman is a paranormal investigator TV pro. Okay, you
Speaker 3: know her from the TV show Paranormal State, which she
Speaker 3: did when she was in college, and then she went
Speaker 3: on over to a little show called Paranormal Lockdown where
Speaker 3: they would stay over night at haunted places. And if
Speaker 3: you listen to the show, you've already heard her on
Speaker 3: here talking about Portals to Hell, which just did its
Speaker 3: second season on Discovery. Plus, she and Jack Osborne go
Speaker 3: to really grim dark, spooky places a lot of times
Speaker 3: of the demon variety. And if you haven't heard my
Speaker 3: conversations with her, go back and listen. This is her
Speaker 3: third time on the show, and she always has incredible insight,
Speaker 3: but this episode in particular, it gets like, especially this
Speaker 3: first part, we talked about some kind of grim dark shit,
Speaker 3: so trigger warning, we did talk about a murder site
Speaker 3: that she went to. So I thought I would read
Speaker 3: some stories that have been submitted to me from listeners
Speaker 3: like you that are more spiritual and loving type stories.
Speaker 3: And if you want the real spooky shit, don't worry
Speaker 3: that I'll be coming at you later on.
Speaker 1: In today's program.
Speaker 3: So this first story comes from Margharita. Hi Roz, new
Speaker 3: listener here and honey, I I'm obsessed.
Speaker 1: Ooh, welcome.
Speaker 3: I've never shared my personal experience before, especially since it's
Speaker 3: such a touchy subject for many, but I feel safe here.
Speaker 3: Before I start my story, I need to give a
Speaker 3: little background. My stepdad raised us as his own since
Speaker 3: I was four or five years old, and I was
Speaker 3: his little girl. I wanted to be just like him
Speaker 3: in every sense of the word. For me, he was
Speaker 3: my father. When I was sixteen, he passed away before
Speaker 3: my seventeenth birthday, as expected. I was devastated and my
Speaker 3: whole world was turned upside down. Throughout the year, several
Speaker 3: things happen that I know was his presence during his
Speaker 3: funeral services. Unexplained things happened when I was eighteen. I
Speaker 3: started working, so I would ride the bus. I would
Speaker 3: be terrified to ride alone. One morning, while it was
Speaker 3: pouring out, I looked out the window and a man
Speaker 3: that looked identical to my dad was sitting on the bench.
Speaker 3: He didn't get on the bus, and when I turned back,
Speaker 3: he was gone. Fast forward to last year, April twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: I unfortunately tested positive for COVID. I immediately got worse
Speaker 3: and worse, to the point that I had to be
Speaker 3: rushed in an ambulance because I could no longer breathe
Speaker 3: on my own. Oh my god, the pain was excruciating
Speaker 3: and nothing that I can fully explain in words. By
Speaker 3: the fourth night, I was deteriorating. Oh my god, my
Speaker 3: oxygen had suddenly dropped under eighty and they were getting
Speaker 3: ready to intubate me if my oxygen didn't get better
Speaker 3: with the oxygen tank. I tested positive with COVID at
Speaker 3: the very beginning, when the doctor still had no clue
Speaker 3: how to help us. I was slowly dying and was
Speaker 3: unable to physically eat for eight days. The nurse woke
Speaker 3: me up because I was not breathing on my own.
Speaker 3: I was taken downstairs to get more chest scans. When
Speaker 3: I came back to my hospital bed, I remember being
Speaker 3: in unbearable pain that no medicine could take away. Within
Speaker 3: a few hours, I looked up and my dad and
Speaker 3: godfather were standing at the end of my hospital bed.
Speaker 3: I know I wasn't dreaming. My father at that point
Speaker 3: had been deceased for ten years and my godfather for
Speaker 3: at least fifteen. They were both smiling at me, and
Speaker 3: there was so much peace and I had no pain.
Speaker 3: I remember closing my eyes thinking, this is it. My
Speaker 3: time has come. I woke up the next morning and
Speaker 3: my chest scans had came back clean. I was discharged
Speaker 3: within two days. I am still to this day healing
Speaker 3: from COVID so severely, but I know it was not
Speaker 3: a dream and my dad.
Speaker 1: Was with me. Wow, Margarita, that is intense.
Speaker 3: I am so glad to hear that you are, you know,
Speaker 3: doing better, but sorry you had to go through that.
Speaker 3: But wow, that is quite beautiful and powerful. Thanks for
Speaker 3: sending me that. Okay, here is another sweet one. I
Speaker 3: don't think I've ever read this one on the show.
Speaker 3: I got it a few months back. I apologize I
Speaker 3: haven't read it sooner. I mean I have read it,
Speaker 3: I just have. I don't think i've read it on
Speaker 3: the show. This is from Vicky, who emailed me at
Speaker 3: ghosted by Raz at gmail dot com, and Vicky writes,
Speaker 3: my best friend passed away four years ago of melanoma.
Speaker 3: She was in her seventies and was a fourth generation Wickan.
Speaker 3: She and I I shared an interest in cats. We
Speaker 3: are slash were both all breed judges in the cat fancy.
Speaker 3: She had not shown cats for several years and really
Speaker 3: wanted to get back on the floor, so a friend
Speaker 3: and I got together and purchased a Persian kitten for
Speaker 3: her birthday.
Speaker 1: She used to breed them. She was thrilled.
Speaker 3: She showed him as a kitten and as an altar
Speaker 3: prior to getting sick, which is where this story becomes
Speaker 3: more in line with your show. My son and his
Speaker 3: family were staying at her house as they transitioned from
Speaker 3: Maine to New Hampshire. My husband and I stayed at
Speaker 3: our camp until they found a place to live. About
Speaker 3: four days after my friend died, my daughter in law
Speaker 3: called me and asked if my house was haunted, to
Speaker 3: which I said no, why And here's what she said quote.
Speaker 3: The kids were napping and I was folding laundry upstairs
Speaker 3: when I heard someone walking up the stairs. Thinking it
Speaker 3: was one of the kids, I opened the bedroom door
Speaker 3: and there was no one there. Later in the day, Glenn,
Speaker 3: my four year old grandson at the time, was standing
Speaker 3: in the kitchen looking out the front door, laughing and
Speaker 3: waving and saying okay, I will bye bye, and he
Speaker 3: giggled and waved. Then he turned to me and said,
Speaker 3: tell Nana to go get Cooky. Well my heart skipped
Speaker 3: a beat as my friend chose an elaborate, registered formal
Speaker 3: name for her kitten and no one knew this but
Speaker 3: me and her family. The kitten's nickname was Cookie. My
Speaker 3: friend was telling me to go and get the kitten.
Speaker 3: I'm convinced of it. A year later, I went to
Speaker 3: a group medium session just north of the town I
Speaker 3: live in. When I walked in, I felt her in
Speaker 3: the building and told my friend who was with me
Speaker 3: that she was here. When the medium opened up to
Speaker 3: the room, the first person she described was my friend
Speaker 3: and I raised my hand. She walked right over to
Speaker 3: me and started to tell me what my friend was
Speaker 3: telling her. It was one hundred percent accurate. I could
Speaker 3: almost hear her voice. Wow, thank you Vicky for sending
Speaker 3: me that. Guys, today, we have got Katrina Weidman on
Speaker 3: the show. Now, if you haven't seen the TV show
Speaker 3: Portals to Hell. First of all, I highly endorse it
Speaker 3: and recommend it, so you should go watch it. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, Discovery Plus is like I think it's like
Speaker 3: five bucks a month or something, not too bad. Lots
Speaker 3: of paranormal content on there, and Portals to Hell is
Speaker 3: on there. There's two seasons. I really enjoy the star.
Speaker 3: I love it, and go watch it and then you'll
Speaker 3: know what we're talking about in this episode. But I
Speaker 3: will say this is a two part episode where we
Speaker 3: talk a lot about specifically episodes of Portals to Hell
Speaker 3: this past season. And don't worry, I don't think that
Speaker 3: you need to have seen the show ahead of time
Speaker 3: to follow along. I think we explain what we're talking about,
Speaker 3: and there's still some other interesting spooky insights that Katrina
Speaker 3: has for us as well. So I hope you enjoy
Speaker 3: it and has always good to patron dot com slash
Speaker 3: Roz dress Flees for a bonus clip, and on this
Speaker 3: bonus clip, we are talking about Katrina's relationship to her
Speaker 3: psychic abilities. That's on my second tier. Also on my
Speaker 3: second Tier, my brand new podcast that I'm doing for
Speaker 3: now with my friend Sam Pancake, the two of us
Speaker 3: just talking about all kinds of whatever we feel like
Speaker 3: talking about about. This week's episode is us talking about
Speaker 3: the two thousand's and the mid nineties. So it's a
Speaker 3: good it's a good time. Go check that out. And
Speaker 3: there's a video of me this week talking about my tattoos,
Speaker 3: which I very rarely ever do. I never show them,
Speaker 3: I never talk about them. So you can see that
Speaker 3: on patreon dot com slash Roz Jess Feles. Okay, here
Speaker 3: is my third conversation with Katrina Widman on with the show.
Speaker 1: Oh My God.
Speaker 3: We are joined for our first ever three peat guest.
Speaker 3: One of my absolute favorites, one of your favorites, the
Speaker 3: best eyeshadow in the business.
Speaker 1: Katrina is back.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, I love that intro about the best eye
Speaker 2: shadowy shadow.
Speaker 1: What is it? A primer? What's going on? It always
Speaker 1: just looks so smooth and blended.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I do use a primer. What do
Speaker 2: I use right now? Smash box? Something by smash Box,
Speaker 2: I can't remember the doors. But I also blend a
Speaker 2: lot because I was really bad at blending, like a
Speaker 2: long time ago, and so I'm always like, blend, blend, blend.
Speaker 3: Now it's a real skill, but it's I feel like it's.
Speaker 1: Something that.
Speaker 3: Thanks to YouTube videos you can certainly like, Like when
Speaker 3: I started to make up, I could not figure out
Speaker 3: how to do it. But yeah, anyway, we're not here
Speaker 3: to talk about makeup, and I want it to be
Speaker 3: clear that you're also just one of the best paranormal
Speaker 3: professionals in the biz. You're You're so much more than
Speaker 3: just amazing eyeshadow. It's just a cherry on top.
Speaker 2: Thank you. How have you been, Oh Lordie? You know,
Speaker 2: kind of like what we were saying before we started recording,
Speaker 2: that it's been up and down a lot. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to sugarcoat it, like I don't think I'm special
Speaker 2: for this at all, but I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people probably went through the same stuff I did where
Speaker 2: it was really hard. And what's funny about it is
Speaker 2: that it was the last few months before like everything
Speaker 2: started to kind of simulate back into any kind of normalcy.
Speaker 2: So it was it really hit me hard around the
Speaker 2: holidays because I love the holidays, and there were there
Speaker 2: just sort of felt like an emptiness to them this year.
Speaker 2: And then it was like, you know, the winter. I
Speaker 2: live in the Northeast, so it can be kind of
Speaker 2: bleak sometimes, and we went on my husband and I
Speaker 2: went on vacation before everything really opened up, just to
Speaker 2: kind of get away and have some space, and I
Speaker 2: like completely broke down on vacation, like hyperventilating, crying, and
Speaker 2: it was and it was nothing that really, it was like, no,
Speaker 2: nothing to really set me off for that. It was
Speaker 2: like we were hanging out and then it just happened
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my god. And yeah, it
Speaker 2: was just one of those things, like I didn't even
Speaker 2: realize how stressed out I was until I took a
Speaker 2: moment to step away and then it sort of all
Speaker 2: came to the surface. But I, you know, definitely much
Speaker 2: better now and feeling better. But it's kind of like
Speaker 2: what you were saying, like I don't want to go
Speaker 2: back to wearing normal clothes, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like I like not having to worry about buttons, and personally,
Speaker 2: I don't mind the mask because you don't have to
Speaker 2: keep up with groomings so much.
Speaker 1: So oh yeah, okay with that.
Speaker 3: You know, absolutely I'm keeping mine for that reason. Like
Speaker 3: I'm all about like mask, hat down low with sunglasses,
Speaker 3: no one can see me, right, So I guess just
Speaker 3: getting back into that, you know, it's actually you know
Speaker 3: what's funny is that the last couple of months is
Speaker 3: when I've realized how depressed I was. Yeah, I knew, like, oh, Yeah,
Speaker 3: everything is like terrible right now throughout the past year.
Speaker 3: But I guess I didn't realize until now that I'm
Speaker 3: back like in front of audiences and performing and doing things.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, this like a huge part
Speaker 3: of me was missing. Yeah, and I was just really
Speaker 3: really not doing great.
Speaker 1: But now I am.
Speaker 3: Now I'm it's better. But wait, I heard you say husbands.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like in the past one we've talked it
Speaker 1: was fiance.
Speaker 3: So did you get married during the pandemic or well,
Speaker 3: we got married right before the pandemic and yeah, so
Speaker 3: we like got back from our honey we went on
Speaker 3: our honeymoon right after.
Speaker 2: And when we like, as we were on our honeymoon,
Speaker 2: everyone was talking about it and they were like a
Speaker 2: couple cases popping up in the US, and we were like, oh, well, gosh,
Speaker 2: this isn't good. You know, We're thousands of miles away
Speaker 2: from home, you know. And when we got back, I
Speaker 2: went back to work and as we were on the road,
Speaker 2: you know, it just kept coming back up, coming back up.
Speaker 2: And so it was probably we got married like two
Speaker 2: months before wow pandemic hit. Yeah, so our wedding we
Speaker 2: actually just saw everybody yesterday in our families to celebrate
Speaker 2: Father's Day. And that was like really the first time
Speaker 2: I had seen a lot of people since our wedding.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 3: I feel like the last time I talked to you
Speaker 3: it was definitely when I was recording in the shower
Speaker 3: because I was trying to figure out how to do
Speaker 3: sound COVID, and I think it was probably like last
Speaker 3: summer and at that point portals to Hell Discovery Blush
Speaker 3: if you haven't, you guys were like taking that kind
Speaker 3: of mid season break due to COVID situation. I think
Speaker 3: I don't think you guys had no, I don't think
Speaker 3: you would have been back yet because it was probably
Speaker 3: June or July that we were recording together.
Speaker 1: So can we talk about it?
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: Okay, So, I of course I watch every episode and
Speaker 3: so I I want to I want to go through
Speaker 3: some of these episodes and talk about them. Okay, So
Speaker 3: what was the first one that you guys did back?
Speaker 2: The first one? Man, it was heavy. We did the
Speaker 2: McCormick Farm. Yeah, that was our first one on the
Speaker 2: on the road again after COVID started, and that one,
Speaker 2: that one was hard to be a part of. I
Speaker 2: it's weird. Like I I can enjoy reading and sometimes
Speaker 2: watching things about true crime, you know, I find it
Speaker 2: interesting sometimes, but it's a very different thing to be
Speaker 2: in the location, you know, to meet the people that
Speaker 2: knew the murderers. It brings it really really close. And
Speaker 2: I had a hard time being there because there's still
Speaker 2: bodies missing. There's still people missing.
Speaker 3: That episode had like a disclaimer before it that was like,
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about some murder. There's gonna be
Speaker 3: some photos. Yeah, because that was I mean, so what
Speaker 3: was the story. There was a father and a son
Speaker 3: and ye murdered a bunch of people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was three generations are suspected to be involved,
Speaker 2: but only the youngest generation went to prison for everything,
Speaker 2: so they're the oldest generation. Built the house, bought the
Speaker 2: property in like late nineteen nineteens or early nineteen twenties,
Speaker 2: and started this farm on like three thousand acres. It's
Speaker 2: huge Colorado, right, Colorado, Eastern Colorado. And then his son,
Speaker 2: you know, obviously got involved in the family business. And
Speaker 2: then he had a son named Michael, who also got
Speaker 2: involved in the business. So from what we had learned
Speaker 2: from people that knew them. There's more suspicion on the
Speaker 2: middle generation and the youngest generation instead of the oldest.
Speaker 2: But you know, people are like, well, where did they
Speaker 2: learn that? How did they start that business practice if
Speaker 2: they didn't learn it from the beginning. So it's kind
Speaker 2: of hard to say who was really involved. But legally
Speaker 2: what happened was there was a murder that the youngest
Speaker 2: was involved in where he had stolen the victim's truck,
Speaker 2: and the victim had been missing for some time, but
Speaker 2: he had a very distinct truck, so when it was spotted,
Speaker 2: they obviously asked the youngest McCormick Michael McCormick, and I
Speaker 2: guess he at that point pretty much like confessed to
Speaker 2: all this stuff, including, hey, there's actually a lot of
Speaker 2: bodies on my family's farm and I can point you
Speaker 2: to them.
Speaker 3: So I actually episode you guys had like the confession video.
Speaker 2: Yes, I watched that entire thing, and it is it
Speaker 2: is really crazy to watch somebody's confession of multiple murders.
Speaker 2: And so the really awful part is, I mean, besides
Speaker 2: just the murders obviously, but these were people who were
Speaker 2: you know, they they didn't really have a lot of
Speaker 2: stable family. They didn't have stable friends or home, so
Speaker 2: they were just looking for, you know, a way to
Speaker 2: get by or a lot of times they would go
Speaker 2: to the mission to pick people up for work, so
Speaker 2: you know, possibly people who were looking for a second chance.
Speaker 2: And when the story that we got is basically when
Speaker 2: they would ask for their money or if there was
Speaker 2: some sort of conflict, that's when the McCormick or mccormicks
Speaker 2: would take care of them in that way. And Michael
Speaker 2: pointed out he was able to help them recover three bodies,
Speaker 2: but there was still multiple missing he knew of at
Speaker 2: least like I think, what was it, twelve to fifteen others,
Speaker 2: but again it's like three thousand acres, so you know,
Speaker 2: it's almost impossible to do that. And the investigation team
Speaker 2: eventually ran out of funding, so you know, their main
Speaker 2: priority was to get them in jail, so they had
Speaker 2: enough to do that. Michael did go to jail for
Speaker 2: a period of time. He got out in the mid
Speaker 2: auts and out he got out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was what was part of it. There
Speaker 4: was some really weird stuff going on where his wife
Speaker 4: knew one of the lawyers really well, or his girlfriend
Speaker 4: knew one of the lawyers really.
Speaker 2: Well, and but he did end up getting out. And
Speaker 2: what he did was he was in business with a woman.
Speaker 2: He ended up kidnapping her and eventually killing her and himself. Yeah,
Speaker 2: during that kidnapping. So uh and very sadly she had
Speaker 2: a young child that she left behind because of that.
Speaker 2: So I mean just a really I mean chilling, chilling
Speaker 2: people and story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean great way to come back to work. Yeah,
Speaker 3: world wide pandemic.
Speaker 1: Place.
Speaker 2: It's it's you know, that's kind of the downside of
Speaker 2: working in the field is that you're always dealing with
Speaker 2: heavy storylines and history and sometimes it's sometimes it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's things to be expected when he go
Speaker 2: to a prisoner or something, but like literally spent a
Speaker 2: week on a murder farm.
Speaker 1: And not the most fun I know.
Speaker 3: I would much prefer like, Oh, we've got a happy
Speaker 3: ghost that he likes to wink at people if you
Speaker 3: see him in a mirror or like whatever, Like that's
Speaker 3: my kind of ghost. So okay, So the paranormal side
Speaker 3: of this thing. This couple bought the place.
Speaker 1: And I loved it.
Speaker 3: I think their last name was Clapper, isn't it. Yeah, Clapper,
Speaker 3: which I'm like, that would have. It made me think
Speaker 3: of like that the Clapper, like the to turn your
Speaker 3: lights on. I'm like, oh my god, they the Clapper
Speaker 3: of Fortune. So this nice couple, they lived there, and
Speaker 3: they've had like tons of stuff happening paranormally.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: But what I found interesting when they were telling their
Speaker 3: story was that they didn't get told about.
Speaker 1: These murders when they purchased it, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it wasn't really the confessions hadn't happened at
Speaker 2: that point, so there was I think I think there
Speaker 2: was probably some whispers in town. You know, it's a
Speaker 2: small town. Everybody knew each other. So the current owner,
Speaker 2: he knew the mccormicks. Oh and yeah, because I mean
Speaker 2: everybody knew each other. And when he originally took over,
Speaker 2: I think originally when he took over, it was only
Speaker 2: part of the farm, and because the mccormicks had left
Speaker 2: the farm before the confessions came out, like a couple
Speaker 2: of years prior, so he was like renting or releasing
Speaker 2: part of it, and then at some point he bought it.
Speaker 2: When the confessions happened, he owned the property. And when
Speaker 2: they were taking Michael around the property so he could
Speaker 2: point out where he believed the bodies were. He was
Speaker 2: actually the owner of the farm currently was placed with
Speaker 2: him as sort of do you guys mind hanging out
Speaker 2: while we do some work, and Michael told him like
Speaker 2: all this stuff, and that was the first time that
Speaker 2: mister Clapper had like heard this. So you know, he's
Speaker 2: like having the FBI out on this property looking for
Speaker 2: bodies and then here is someone who was involved in
Speaker 2: the murders being like, yeah, this happened, and you know,
Speaker 2: confessing things to him.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So having with you having so much experience going to
Speaker 3: different haunted places where horrific things have happened. The conversation
Speaker 3: that often comes up on this show and in paranormal
Speaker 3: conversations is like this idea of telling people, you know,
Speaker 3: should you tell people that people were murdered here? And
Speaker 3: I know some different states have different laws about that.
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on that, Like, if something if
Speaker 3: something horrific happens at a location, do you how do
Speaker 3: you feel about do you have any insight on on
Speaker 3: that from your oath?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean just from a real estate standpoint,
Speaker 2: I think there should be laws where you have to
Speaker 2: tell that because that could affect resale, you know. And
Speaker 2: I think if you're making an investment, you need to know,
Speaker 2: you know, what's involved with that property you're building. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's any different from needing to know, Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: you know you need a new sump bump, or the
Speaker 2: roof was only replaced twenty years ago, so in ten
Speaker 2: years you might need a new one. I think it's
Speaker 2: the same thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like not even in a paranormal way.
Speaker 3: It's like now you could be having camera crew show
Speaker 3: up to your house one day, or people might be
Speaker 3: doing documentaries, or people might be driving by taking pictures.
Speaker 3: Like I feel like that's a thing you need to
Speaker 3: know before you move in someplace.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I totally agree. And as far as the haunting,
Speaker 2: I you know, I don't know, it's hard to say.
Speaker 2: I think should there be a law, I'm not sure,
Speaker 2: but because I think there's you have houses like Amityville
Speaker 2: right where all the owners since the lotsus have never
Speaker 2: experienced anything. So just because the place or a family
Speaker 2: is experiencing activity doesn't mean that it's always going to
Speaker 2: be that way.
Speaker 3: Right, But I know you are by purchasing this, you
Speaker 3: now have a responsibility to get asked constantly to do interviews,
Speaker 3: you know, like people are there, you're there's something, there's
Speaker 3: more than just living in a peaceful house, Like it
Speaker 3: comes with this stigma of this house, you know, like right,
Speaker 3: there is I feel like people should know that. But
Speaker 3: it's also like it's it's one of those weird things,
Speaker 3: like legally do you have to tell people if it's haunted?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: I feel like saying it's haunted is different than like
Speaker 3: there's been murders and rightf like that, But.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I feel like the conclusion I always come to is
Speaker 3: like if it's super well known as being haunted to
Speaker 3: the point where people are going to be like bothering
Speaker 3: you about the fact that it's haunted, and I feel
Speaker 3: like you should know that, but like you also run
Speaker 3: the risk of talking.
Speaker 1: To people that are like what what do you are?
Speaker 3: You crazy telling me that there's ghosts in this I
Speaker 3: don't even believe in that. I don't want to buy
Speaker 3: from you, like right, like, I don't know, it's it's
Speaker 3: a weird thing. I mean, as believers and ghosts. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I see where it's like I would want to know
Speaker 3: that I would want to tell people that or whatever.
Speaker 3: But I feel like there's so many people don't even
Speaker 3: believe in that stuff, so it would be just be
Speaker 3: weird for them to know.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I feel like if I was a real estate person,
Speaker 3: i'd be like just say, you know, people.
Speaker 2: Say yeah, yeah. And I think you bring up an
Speaker 2: excellent point about, you know, if you're going to be
Speaker 2: bothered by interviewers, camera crews, ghost hunters because there.
Speaker 3: Are Irina Widemen and Jack Osborne knocking on your door.
Speaker 2: And it's funny though, because that's happened a couple of
Speaker 2: times to me. I can think of one neighborhood where
Speaker 2: we were like screamed out of there. And this was
Speaker 2: almost ten years ago, and it's a haunting in New York.
Speaker 2: It's in Seaford, New York, and they had a haunting
Speaker 2: for six weeks. It was very intense. It was documented
Speaker 2: by police, psychologists, news reporters, and then it stopped. As
Speaker 2: mysteriously as it started, it stopped and we went to
Speaker 2: the neighborhood with a camera crew just to check it out.
Speaker 2: And I mean, and you know this, you work in
Speaker 2: the entertainment industry. Legally, you can film from a sidewalk,
Speaker 2: but neighbors of the house we were looking at were
Speaker 2: screaming at us and they were very angry that we
Speaker 2: were there. So I mean, you do you know, I
Speaker 2: think there is something to be considered there that if
Speaker 2: you're going to purchase a house that has that kind
Speaker 2: of history to it, you know, maybe you should know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's like a whole thing that you'll
Speaker 3: have to deal with just by living there. Well, I
Speaker 3: want to get back to this farm episode you I
Speaker 3: think this is the episode. Maybe I'm wrong, but one
Speaker 3: of these episodes you like started like kind of laying
Speaker 3: down and taking a nap or something, which I know
Speaker 3: you've had like so much experience with like paranormal Lockdown
Speaker 3: and all your years of experience, but like, are you
Speaker 3: the kind of person that can just take a nap
Speaker 3: any like at a haunted place? Like if I heard
Speaker 3: all those stories, I won't I won't sleep for weeks
Speaker 3: no matter where I am.
Speaker 1: But like, can you just sleep during that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think now I can. After is after Lockdown, I
Speaker 2: can pretty much sleep anywhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was another thing I was thinking about with
Speaker 3: that episode. You were doing kind of like a role
Speaker 3: playing experiment to try to get some activity to happen.
Speaker 3: And I was curious about that, like, what is your
Speaker 3: experience with that does does it tend to work to
Speaker 3: trigger activity if you kind of recreate things or yeah.
Speaker 2: There's I think I've had some experiences where there seems
Speaker 2: to be a response to it. Someone I worked with
Speaker 2: was really great at it. Her name was Debbie Constantino.
Speaker 2: Debbie has since passed away, unfortunately, but when I worked
Speaker 2: with her first off, she was like an EVP queen.
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't matter where she went.
Speaker 4: She would always get EVPs and they were always like
Speaker 4: class A, class B EVPs.
Speaker 2: And I remember one of the times I worked with her.
Speaker 2: We were in Virginia City and she went into role
Speaker 2: playing and she got like all these crazy answers and
Speaker 2: she just pretended to be a prostitute and she was like, Hey,
Speaker 2: I really need money, I really need a job. I
Speaker 2: need to support myself. Who do I talk to? Can
Speaker 2: you help me get money? Like she would just repeat
Speaker 2: those things over and over again, and she would get
Speaker 2: these answers in an e VP form that would correlate
Speaker 2: with her question. There's other people, you know, reenactors. When
Speaker 2: you go to historical places that will claim, uh, they
Speaker 2: were doing a reenactment and then activity got crazy afterwards.
Speaker 2: So you see a lot of things like that, So
Speaker 2: you know, what's the rhyme or reason for that. I
Speaker 2: can only speculate that maybe you're triggering something, you know,
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of people too that use music,
Speaker 2: so they'll use music for that time period to see
Speaker 2: if it triggers anything. And then you can go into
Speaker 2: the hole. Well, music is vibration and does vibration have
Speaker 2: anything to do with the supernatural? And so I mean
Speaker 2: there's to answer your question more in a more concise way.
Speaker 2: I think there's there's some experiences that suggest that role
Speaker 2: playing or reenacting would lead to activity, would lead to
Speaker 2: a response, but it's definitely, you know, nothing conclusive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think it's like I guess with our
Speaker 3: theater background, you and I'm like this sounds like fun, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I want any opportunity I can just like put on
Speaker 3: a costume and pretend to do a little scene for
Speaker 3: the ghost.
Speaker 1: That owner of the I guess Missus Clapper.
Speaker 3: She she had such an interesting connection to the to
Speaker 3: the ghosts there, and it seemed you seem to come
Speaker 3: to the conclusion that she's.
Speaker 1: Probably like a little psychic, which I thought was cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Leslie is all heart, I mean, such a wonderfully
Speaker 2: warm person. You can tell she is the glue of
Speaker 2: that family, you know, she's I think she would be
Speaker 2: the glue anywhere she went. She is just very what's
Speaker 2: the word I'm looking for when you meet somebody that
Speaker 2: you're like, like, she's just light, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like you're just like attracted to her energy. And I
Speaker 2: think she is a very because she's such an empathetic person.
Speaker 2: I think part of what she was experiencing is just
Speaker 2: knowing what happened there and having a hard time accepting
Speaker 2: that there's people that their families never knew what happened
Speaker 2: to them, you know. I think that's part of it.
Speaker 2: But she'd absolutely had, you know, experiences that she couldn't explain.
Speaker 2: And what's interesting about that too, is a lot of
Speaker 2: times you meet empathetic people who are tend to have
Speaker 2: more paranormal experiences. So is that because they're more open
Speaker 2: to it some way? You know, I, you know, I
Speaker 2: would tend to say yes, And it seemed like with Leslie,
Speaker 2: she had had these experiences prior to coming to the farm,
Speaker 2: not in a way of a haunting really, but in
Speaker 2: a way of like knowing things or having dreams that
Speaker 2: would come true.
Speaker 3: Or.
Speaker 2: You know, she just kind of always had that sixth
Speaker 2: sense about her.
Speaker 1: Anyway, let's get back to episodes. Okay, So then where
Speaker 1: did you go? Was that?
Speaker 4: Then?
Speaker 1: The Hotel monte Vista?
Speaker 2: We went right after that since you were in Colorado,
Speaker 2: we ended up going to the Grant hum Freeze Mansion.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, which is the one where you really showed
Speaker 3: up your piano playing skills.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I didn't know.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. Yeah. That was its beautiful place and
Speaker 2: the only reason, I mean, funny enough, the only reason
Speaker 2: we were able to get in there is because of
Speaker 2: COVID because they normally do weddings and obviously so many
Speaker 2: things were shut down so they couldn't do them. And
Speaker 2: uh that was that was a really interesting investigation too,
Speaker 2: because people have had been having experiences there for decades,
Speaker 2: and you know, they have so many people in and
Speaker 2: out that it's some sometimes that people don't know the
Speaker 2: stories or they're having the same experiences independently of each other,
Speaker 2: and they don't know each other. So the staff are
Speaker 2: constantly hearing you know this, the repeated patterns over and
Speaker 2: over again.
Speaker 3: See, that's always That would be the fun part of
Speaker 3: working at a haunted place where you can where someone
Speaker 3: would be like, oh my god, something has happened, and
Speaker 3: then you say, was it the woman in the white dress?
Speaker 3: You know, like you have like the thing you have
Speaker 3: the line that you get to say yeah. But with
Speaker 3: that one, it was like something scary. It was like
Speaker 3: a man with like half his face hanging off or something.
Speaker 2: Wasn't that it was yeah, because the guy historically the
Speaker 2: main guy was shot in the face, and there is
Speaker 2: a lot of nobody really knows if it was suicide, murder,
Speaker 2: or accident. And there you know, just as today, when
Speaker 2: a tragedy happens, there's a lot of talk and a
Speaker 2: lot of whisper down the lane, and sometimes people make
Speaker 2: things up. And so there were stories of people seeing
Speaker 2: someone dressed in all black leaving the balcony afterwards. Uh,
Speaker 2: And you know, he was involved in some heavy legal
Speaker 2: stuff at the time, so a suicide made sense, but
Speaker 2: also a murder would make sense for that. And you know,
Speaker 2: so nobody really knew what happened to him, but they've
Speaker 2: been experiencing a lot of activity ever since it became
Speaker 2: a public or semi public location.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then you've got a psychic in there. You
Speaker 3: got Sandy Keaza, who's always really fun to watch, and
Speaker 3: she was like, oh, he didn't shoot himself, somebody shot him.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Cindy's interesting to watch too when she works, because she
Speaker 2: she'll be on like one She'll she'll be saying one
Speaker 2: thing and connected into some like one storyline, and then
Speaker 2: she'll be like, wait, nope, nope, no, nope, that's it,
Speaker 2: and then she'll turn on a dime. And that's what
Speaker 2: happened with the shooting. She was like, Okay, I'm getting
Speaker 2: something here. I need to go here. And as she's
Speaker 2: telling us something, she's like, wait a minute, somebody was shot.
Speaker 2: Somebody shot themselves.
Speaker 1: What happened?
Speaker 2: Something? Hold on? And so she went on this whole
Speaker 2: journey with it. She was she was very connected into
Speaker 2: that place. So that was that was particularly fascinating to
Speaker 2: watch her work.
Speaker 1: I mean, do these places I'm curious about.
Speaker 3: I don't know if we've ever talked about this together
Speaker 3: about like get the ghosts out of here kind of situation,
Speaker 3: cross them over or whatever I mean is that.
Speaker 1: What you guys do you guys go to places.
Speaker 3: That don't want that, or I know that's not really
Speaker 3: like what your show is, but like how does that
Speaker 3: come up with your location scouting and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not something I personally do, and as
Speaker 2: a team that, it's not something Jack and I do.
Speaker 2: If somebody wanted that, we would bring in someone else
Speaker 2: to do it, or if they wanted a blessing, we
Speaker 2: would bring in somebody to do that. But because I
Speaker 2: think my job more than anything, like, yes, I'm researching
Speaker 2: these odd experiences and I want to document them, and
Speaker 2: of course you always show respect for the history and
Speaker 2: the people who have passed in connection to that, but
Speaker 2: my job is more about helping the living because these
Speaker 2: experiences can be really crazy and scary and isolating, and
Speaker 2: so I always go with whatever the current owner wants
Speaker 2: to do, you know, like do you want it clear?
Speaker 2: Do you want like you know, I can, I'll tell
Speaker 2: you the ins and outs of that. I'm always really
Speaker 2: really honest with them that there's no guarantees and we
Speaker 2: don't really know what the stuff is or how it works.
Speaker 2: But if that makes you feel better, we can try it.
Speaker 2: And like with Leslie and the Clappers on the McCormick farm.
Speaker 2: We had a psychic come back to speak with them
Speaker 2: directly and to kind of I'm trying to remember if
Speaker 2: he did a blessing or if he just did a
Speaker 2: reading for them, but you know that was part of
Speaker 2: the investigation because they Leslie wanted closure that way. So
Speaker 2: it all depends on the on the people. It's really
Speaker 2: whatever they want is what we'll we'll try to do
Speaker 2: to help them.
Speaker 1: So then where did you guys go after that?
Speaker 2: I think it was back to Pennsylvania. I think maybe
Speaker 2: was it Penhurst.
Speaker 1: Or let's talk about that.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it was fun to see because you've you've
Speaker 3: been there a bunch of times and that place is
Speaker 3: an old asylum. Now having been there a lot of
Speaker 3: times and doing repead investigations at a lot of different places,
Speaker 3: do you ever have you encountered ghosts that are like, oh,
Speaker 3: Katrina's back, like.
Speaker 1: Me with you on this podcast the third time.
Speaker 2: There's been a couple times I've been places repeated and
Speaker 2: it will it's like they'll get my name on an
Speaker 2: EVP or yeah, like so weird things like that have
Speaker 2: happened in the past. Penhurst, I find well, I find
Speaker 2: more what happens is the more you go back, the
Speaker 2: more you realize that whatever is going on there isn't
Speaker 2: consistent in the way that maybe it's we think of
Speaker 2: activity to be consistent, you know, we can't. I think
Speaker 2: we just sort of had this image of like paranormal
Speaker 2: activity to be this baseline of this always happens blah
Speaker 2: blah blah, and it doesn't really work like that. You
Speaker 2: can go into someplace that you've had a really crazy experience,
Speaker 2: and the next time you go in it's completely you know,
Speaker 2: I mean a pun but dead, you know. So I
Speaker 2: think with something like Penhurst that it's been interesting because
Speaker 2: I've been they were like seven or eight times at
Speaker 2: this point, and it's different every single time.
Speaker 3: Well, especially because there's probably just so many different energies there,
Speaker 3: and then people are going in there and they're doing
Speaker 3: their rituals that are maybe stirring things up, and there's
Speaker 3: just it just seems like there's like an open door
Speaker 3: or whatever. I don't know, there's just a lot of
Speaker 3: different energies. Yeah you're going to get yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of it also has to
Speaker 2: do with the people you're with. And I was just
Speaker 2: talking about this with Rob Zaffi the other day, who
Speaker 2: was the director of photography, producer coep of Paranormal Lockdown,
Speaker 2: and we were saying, how it just sort of seems
Speaker 2: like the crazy experiences that we've had have been when
Speaker 2: we were on Lockdown, not that we haven't had other experiences,
Speaker 2: but just like the craziest of the craziest, you know,
Speaker 2: happened on that show. And we were kind of just
Speaker 2: you know, chatting, what it doesn't have anything to do
Speaker 2: with the energy that was involved from us, And I've
Speaker 2: definitely been to some places where you know, owners will
Speaker 2: speak to that, Oh, it only happens if if Bobby's here,
Speaker 2: you know, it only happens if if Jimmy is with us.
Speaker 2: So I don't know. It's it's interesting.
Speaker 3: So you know, it's it's an old asylum and it
Speaker 3: has a history that I appreciate that they acknowledge, you know,
Speaker 3: that was terrible conditions for the people that that were there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I wonder since you've been to so many of these,
Speaker 3: you know, I guess there's a lot of different terms.
Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of terms for these places
Speaker 3: are like so outdated, Like some of these like lunatic asilence.
Speaker 3: I don't even know if you would say that today,
Speaker 3: but like you know, you've been to so many of
Speaker 3: these asylums and places.
Speaker 1: Do you notice patterns with that type of haunting?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, I know, I know I'm kind of
Speaker 3: going against what you just said, but I mean, do
Speaker 3: you notice like a different type of vibe in those
Speaker 3: kinds of places that's you know, seems to repeat it.
Speaker 2: I think in those types of places what's interesting is
Speaker 2: the activity kind of turns on a dime. When it does,
Speaker 2: it turns very quickly, so it's a thing that you
Speaker 2: could feel fine, and then all of a sudden you
Speaker 2: know that the space is different. And I know that
Speaker 2: sounds kind of woo woo, but there I cannot think
Speaker 2: of a better way to explain it. Like you just
Speaker 2: have to experience it and you'll know exactly what I'm
Speaker 2: talking about if you've had it's very Yeah, I would
Speaker 2: say asylums prisons maybe in the same way, where it's
Speaker 2: the energy can shift so dramatically and you just know
Speaker 2: that there's something off and something with you. Whatever that is,
Speaker 2: the energy is changed. It's hard to say, because I
Speaker 2: think asylums especially they're normally ginormous locations, and so many
Speaker 2: people came in and out of there, and and not
Speaker 2: just during its life, but also now that ghost cops
Speaker 2: are really popular. So I think the challenging part is
Speaker 2: keeping all those stories straight and documenting them. And I know,
Speaker 2: even the places that really pride themselves on doing that,
Speaker 2: some things kind of fall through the cracks just because
Speaker 2: it's so it's such a high volume of people experiencing things.
Speaker 3: You know, I've asked this, I've asked people before, PARALLELM
Speaker 3: investigators before. You're a good person to answer this because
Speaker 3: of you know, producing these shows and stuff. Have you
Speaker 3: encountered any abandoned hospital, asylum or jail that is not haunted?
Speaker 2: I don't know that I have, because we purposely seek
Speaker 2: out the ones that are. So we purposely seek out
Speaker 2: the one that have uh people witnesses, you know.
Speaker 3: But like there can't be one like there is there
Speaker 3: one like that would feel like you're like the youngest
Speaker 3: child that never lives up to your expectations or.
Speaker 1: Whatever like that.
Speaker 3: I feel bad for one of those buildings if they're
Speaker 3: not haunted, because it's all like the writings on the wall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know, because then you also have
Speaker 2: to we have to go into that becomes a much
Speaker 2: bigger conversation of what is a haunting? Is it because
Speaker 2: of tragedies that have happened? Is it because of the land?
Speaker 2: Is it because of our own perceptions, meaning we we
Speaker 2: know a tragedy happened there, so we think a haunting
Speaker 2: is happening. Is that all of the above? Is it
Speaker 2: not one of the above? You know? But I have
Speaker 2: to say, in my experience, I don't know of one
Speaker 2: that claims not to be so. But you know, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of there's a lot of jails and asylums
Speaker 2: in the world, so you know, I could be could
Speaker 2: be wrong about that.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Another thing about that episode that listeners of this show,
Speaker 3: I'm sure they've already seen it, but if you haven't,
Speaker 3: one of the biggest reasons you should watch it as
Speaker 3: a fan of this show is that one of our
Speaker 3: absolute favorites, Michelle Bell and Jay shows up with her
Speaker 3: leather trench coat and her blindfold and tells it like
Speaker 3: it is. And oh my god, Katrina, We've finally had
Speaker 3: her on this podcast and blew our minds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's amazing and It's funny because I remember when
Speaker 2: I started working with Jack, I was like, you know, well,
Speaker 2: I have people that I know and trust that I
Speaker 2: work with, and I want to put their names in
Speaker 2: the hat for this. And of course one of the
Speaker 2: people was Michelle. And you know, I think some of
Speaker 2: the people on Portals had come from other paranormal shows.
Speaker 2: Other people had never worked on one before. And I
Speaker 2: remember the first time we brought her out and she
Speaker 2: was doing her reading, like the one guy had tears
Speaker 2: in his eyes. He says like, I've never I've never
Speaker 2: seen anything like that before, and other people were like,
Speaker 2: how the is she doing this? She is, I mean,
Speaker 2: she's amazing the detail she gets with things and how
Speaker 2: accurate she is. It's incredible. It's incredible to watch her.
Speaker 3: I was telling her about one of the craziest stories
Speaker 3: I've ever heard on the show was somebody that had
Speaker 3: like somebody got in their dream and it was like
Speaker 3: super real and not just a dream and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, yeah, I can do that. I
Speaker 1: read a book about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. She actually did something to me. A long time ago,
Speaker 2: we were investigating in North Carolina and we had her
Speaker 2: out and I mean this is like, you know, ten
Speaker 2: years ago, and I was actually in someone's bathroom investigating
Speaker 2: and I got into their tub, right because that's what
Speaker 2: you do. And I it was the strangest sensation where
Speaker 2: it felt like somebody was pressing down on me, like
Speaker 2: pressing down on my shoulders, in my head and like
Speaker 2: bending me forward. And what I didn't know was that
Speaker 2: Michelle was in our We had a surveillance stand for
Speaker 2: that episode because the house was smaller, and she was
Speaker 2: in the van with our tech crew, like two or
Speaker 2: three guys at the time, and she was purposely attaching
Speaker 2: to me to see if she could And uh so
Speaker 2: I guess they knew what was happening. I'm not sure,
Speaker 2: but yeah, so that was that was really weird. God, yeah, crazy.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to Katrina Widman. Don't you worry.
Speaker 3: There is a whole nother part of this episode coming
Speaker 3: at you next week. We'll get into EVPs, we'll talk
Speaker 3: about some more episodes and some more places that she
Speaker 3: has been to recently that are very spooky, unhaunted.
Speaker 1: So make sure you're subscribed.
Speaker 3: Also, if you want to hear a little extra this week,
Speaker 3: I'm Patreon, I'm talking to her about her relationship with
Speaker 3: her psychic abilities. And you can also hear my new
Speaker 3: podcast with Sam Pancake on there as well. Make sure
Speaker 3: you rate the show five stars if you like it.
Speaker 3: If you don't like it, then don't rate it anything.
Speaker 3: Just don't just stay away from that. You don't have
Speaker 3: to do that. But if you do like it, rate
Speaker 3: it five stars. You could leave a ghost story in
Speaker 3: a five star review, or you could email me at
Speaker 3: ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com. Join the Facebook
Speaker 3: group it's called Ghosted by Roz dress Fales. I'm on
Speaker 3: Instagram at Roz Hernandez. I am on Cameo rozdres Fales.
Speaker 3: I love you all, both living and dead.
Speaker 1: But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't
Speaker 1: haunt me. Heay bye.
Speaker 2: Star Brands off their a podcast.
Speaker 1: A podcast network
Speaker 4: H