1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from dot com. 2 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Hey then, everyone, welcome to tech Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 3 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: and today I have a special guest host, Christian Saga, 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: writer and host extraordinaire. He's the guy who tells me 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: what things I should say on certain videos. Yeah, I 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: put the words in your mouth on brand stuff and yeah, 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: sometimes on lots of stuff. I don't know if you've 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: done want to know what the stuff scripts. So anytime 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: you see me on video and you think wow, Jonathan 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: seems in particularly well spoken, it's probably because Christian wrote 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: the words, Oh, I don't know about that. You add 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: the words yeah, well I you know, I just make 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: them up. So that's all it's. But when I asked 14 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: Christian if he would come on to the show, you agreed, 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: and you you know, I gave you the choice, like 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: can you want? You can pick anything you want that's 17 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: tech related, and you came back with something that was 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: really interesting. Because I know that this is an area 19 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: that you have followed quite a bit. I am sort 20 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: of only tangentially connected to this. I get a lot 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: of it through osmosis. I'm talking about digital comics, and 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: so the the the digital world. The digital um revolution 23 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: you might call it, really shook up a lot of 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: established industries, especially in areas like our own in terms 25 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: of content, yeah and everything. We've seen it so many times. Right. 26 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: We saw it first and foremost, i'd say, we saw 27 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: it with the music industry. UM iTunes was incredibly disruptive. 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: We saw lots of different companies resist that as much 29 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: as they could in various ways, often by putting terrible 30 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: DRM onto files, right yeah, which is something we'll talk about. 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: With digital comics, it's still going through those growing One 32 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: nice thing I'll say is that as far as I am, 33 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: a where no one in in digital comics has uh 34 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: installed d r M that would create a critical vulnerability 35 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: in your computer system, unlike what Sony did with their music, 36 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: right yeah, I don't think so. I have yet to 37 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: hear about anything like that. You know, I wouldn't put 38 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: it past some some publishers, right right. I would hope 39 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: they wouldn't do it on purpose at least, but uh, 40 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: you know, we've also seen it in film, We've seen 41 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: in television. We've seen it in publishing in general, with Amazon, 42 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: the Kindle and and and the Nook and all of that. 43 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: The publishing cure, but now we're seeing it also in 44 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: uh in comics. And when I think digital comics, are 45 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: two things that come to mind. Either I'm thinking about 46 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: comics that are produced digitally and then they may be 47 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: printed in hard format or they may be distributed that way, 48 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: or just strictly the distribution, and we're really going to 49 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: be talking about the disc tribution side today, right, yeah, 50 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: And so yeah, like digitally made comics started and probably 51 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: like the early nineties, I want to say, but that's 52 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: not what we're going to be talking about today. And 53 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: in fact, like almost all comics have some kind of 54 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: digitally made component nowadays. Pretty much everybody colors digitally now 55 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: um and letters digitally as well. But um no, yeah, 56 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: we'll be talking about the distribution, and I want to 57 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: clarify to that digital comics and web comics are two 58 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: different things. Digital comics are comics that you would maybe 59 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: find in a print edition, not always there are some 60 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: digital first editions, but that are distributed in digital means, 61 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: either through an app or PDF, and we'll talk about, 62 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, the different means of distribution later. But web 63 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: comics are really comics that are hosted on websites and 64 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: are meant to be read on a desktop. Yeah. We actually, 65 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: way back in the day, tech Stuff did an interview 66 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: with Chris Straub, who's a web comics artist, and we 67 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: talked about web comics then. So if you guys are 68 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: interested in the subject of web comics, check that old 69 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: episode of tech Stuff out. But we're really going to 70 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: talk about this distribution model and the consuming like how 71 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: you consume the comics, right, So it's not just how 72 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: how they are distributed, but how the the audience is 73 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: able to experience that stuff. And uh, clearly, one of 74 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: the big things that has really fueled this is the 75 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: move to the mobile platform. I mean, yeah, I know 76 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: there are people out there who still will read comics 77 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: on their laptops or desktops, but that tends to be uh, 78 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: it's not ideal. Difficult. Yeah, when I am When I 79 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: was working on my thesis in college, it was about comics, 80 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: and I had to read something like three comics for 81 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: this thesis and it was before I had a mobile device, 82 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: so I was like flipping a laptop on its side 83 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: and reading a PDF, uh, like in my lap upside, Yeah, 84 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: that's not not ideal because as as you were pointing 85 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: out right there, just but from that description, the layout 86 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: of a typical monitor is where you've got You've got 87 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: that landscape layout rather than portrait. Yeah, and portraits really 88 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: what you need to experience a comic book in the 89 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: way the format that we're used to here in the 90 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: units of print format. Yeah, and and that is something 91 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: that both web comics and digital comment comics have and 92 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: are experimenting with. Um. There are some digital comics that 93 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: are designed specifically for digital and are in landscape format 94 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: and have an interesting design and that their panel to 95 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: panel transitions. You wouldn't be able to get away with 96 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: it in print because they would be so slow, but 97 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: like be the same image and all of a sudden 98 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: a word balloon would pop up as you scrolled to 99 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: the next one. So it's almost like a cross between 100 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: very slow animation and uh and and print comics, right right, Yeah, 101 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: it's I guess the next step will be interactivity, where 102 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: it becomes there there. Yeah yeah, yeah, well yeah, Marvel 103 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: is already they're all over it. Every south by Southwest. 104 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: They announced all this interactivity stuff that they're gonna embed 105 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: into their digital comics over the next year, and then 106 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: like half of it happens. I can't I can't wait 107 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: to get my hands on it, because I would love 108 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: to have the moment where I go on and on 109 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: to everybody about how the comics I have manipulated makes 110 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: so much sense and they're so consistent internally, and then 111 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: after three issues say this is hard. Yeah right, yeah. 112 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: If if comments, if comics only had the same comments 113 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: fields that our YouTube video has had, I can only 114 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: imagine how horrible that, I mean, people would write in 115 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: their readers did kill off Jason Todd. So there's there's 116 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: some there's some uh, some precedent for that. So now 117 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: that we have these mobile devices that are often in 118 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: the layout that at least are it can be um modified, 119 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: A comic can be modified to fit it, and perhaps 120 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: in a way that is closer to the print editions 121 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: that were used to in the States. Uh. They we 122 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: really started to see the dig digital comics industry kind 123 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: of take off, and we'll talk a bit about how 124 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: popular they've become. And I love that. In the notes, 125 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: By the way, guys, we're gonna be relying heavily on 126 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: Christians notes here and and he is an exhaustive note taker. 127 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: I I didn't have to lift a finger for this episode, 128 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: So I thank you for that. Yeah, no problem, I 129 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: mean it helps that, uh I. So I used to 130 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: write about comics for CNN before I worked at How 131 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,119 Speaker 1: Stuff Works, and I did articles in interviews with people 132 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: in the digital comics world as it was sort of 133 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: starting up while I was over there, and also self 134 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: published my own comics also, and I've worked with digital publishers, 135 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: have kind of gone through the system from the back end, 136 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: and I understand how it all, the behind the scenes 137 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: of it, how it works. In fact, my graphic novel 138 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: is currently in queue at Comics Pology. I'm waiting to 139 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: try to get that up there for sale. That's fantastic. Yeah, 140 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that's really cool about the 141 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: digital approach is that it opens up distribution process for 142 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: people who otherwise wouldn't have that access. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, So, 143 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: like without getting too far into because we could spend 144 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: hours talking about it. Most prit comics in the United 145 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: States are distributed through a company called Diamond Distribution, and 146 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, Diamond made a decision that 147 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: they would not distribute books unless they could guarantee that 148 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: they would sell I think it was at least I 149 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: want to say, fift undred dollars worth of copies, which 150 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a lot, but for some small press 151 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: people really is. And so they lost the ability to 152 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: distribute their small press books two stores around the country 153 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: unless they were local. Um. So yeah, digital has sort 154 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: of replaced that for them, that they can get eyes 155 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: all around the world on their books, no matter how 156 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,239 Speaker 1: small and unknown they are, and it gives an opportunity 157 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: for discovery that wouldn't be there. Uh. And we can 158 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: talk more about the potential for discovery, I think towards 159 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: the end of this. So the first big one that 160 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: we need to talk about. The first big platform for 161 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: digital distribution is comics Ology. Uh and uh that's probably 162 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: want anyone out there who is familiar with digital comics 163 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: you probably probably have this app. Uh. It's it's one 164 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: of the most well known and uh, it's been around 165 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: for a while in various forms. The earlier ones were 166 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: more of a uh, kind of a discovery tool and 167 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: then became a digital reader further on in its existence. Yeah, 168 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: comics Oology the company, if I'm remembering this correctly, They 169 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: started off as sort of like a way to keep 170 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: track of the comics that you bought at the store 171 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: every week. And also it would allow you to know 172 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: what was on the pull drawers at various comic book shops. 173 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: So if you were if you were in the market 174 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: for a specific issue of a specific comics, you could 175 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 1: go on there check it and they would have a 176 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: database there. Essentially they would have all the comics listed 177 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: yeah right, yeah, and then giving you the addresses of 178 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: course in the stores so you can go find them. Yeah, 179 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: but it um. They released their app for digital comics 180 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: reading was called just Comics, and and no one that 181 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: I know in the comic book world, readers or creators 182 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: ever referred to it as comics. They always just called 183 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: it comics oology. And I think it was like maybe 184 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: a year year and a half ago that they finally 185 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: gave up and we're like, all right, find comics Sologna. 186 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,359 Speaker 1: We're not going to fight it anymore. Yeah. So they 187 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: facilitated more than two hundred million downloads. That's a lot. Yeah, Yeah, 188 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: And that's through desktop, tablet, phones, you name it, yea, 189 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: through all the different platforms. It does not necessarily mean 190 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: two hundred million purchases. We are talking downloads here the 191 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: same sort of thing, Like if you ever read a 192 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: press release from company that talks about how many units shipped. 193 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: Units shipped and units sold are two different things. Uh. 194 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: But and Apple says that Comics Oology is the highest 195 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: grossing iOS app that is not a game, right, So yeah, 196 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: so like stuffitely, candy Crush is obviously like bigger than 197 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:22,359 Speaker 1: Comics Oology. But in terms of content, uh, comics Ology 198 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: is killing it on iOS and has been for a 199 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: couple of years now, six billion pages of comic books 200 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: and graphic novels. I think it's a It's ranked eleventh overall, 201 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: or at least it wasn't. And we'll talk later about this, 202 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 1: but uh, comics Ology and their new owners Amazon had 203 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: a little bit of a kerfluffle with Apple earlier this year. 204 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: So I'd be curious to see at the end of 205 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: this year where they stand in those rankings. You know what, 206 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: I want to talk about that for a second. So 207 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: the kurfuffle you're talking about here is that the way 208 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: Apple's policy is is that if you have an app 209 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: and you allow in app purchases, Apple takes a cut 210 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: of those purchases of the fee. In the case of Comicsology. 211 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: I think that's it across the board for Apples, for 212 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: any in app purchase, for any app that's in the 213 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: Apple Store, Apple gets cut. And I don't know if 214 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: you guys know this out there tex stuff Land, but 215 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: Apple and Amazon are kind of competitors in many ways, 216 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: and uh, generally speaking, if you are producing something or 217 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: you're distributing something, you want to be able to get 218 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: as big a cut of that as you possibly can. 219 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: This also is tough on creators because if you look 220 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: at the slice of the pie that creators get from 221 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: print versus digital, you would think, oh, well, with print, 222 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: you take all those printing costs out, you take all 223 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: those shipping costs out, all the physical warehouse space, all 224 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: of that is gone. All you have is a file. 225 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: You must be breaking in a huge amount. Actually, no, 226 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: that's not true, right, Yeah, because you're looking at the 227 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: breakdown first between Apple and comics Oology, and then between 228 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: comics Ology and the creator. Yeah, and so by the 229 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: time you get down to it, it might be that 230 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: the creator is actually making less per issue than they 231 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: would with a print. That's a possibility, especially because usually 232 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: the cost of digital comics is less than it would 233 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: be for print. Yeah, and uh, so Apple and Amazon 234 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: are kind of butting heads in that sense. So Amazon 235 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: is looking at I think they've already done it where 236 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: they're uh, you would purchase the comics outside the app, 237 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: and then you could read them inside the app. So 238 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: they they they modified the comics Ology app. First of all, 239 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: Amazon bought Comics Oology, I want to say in March 240 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,599 Speaker 1: of the spring, and maybe a month month and a 241 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: half later, Comics Oology announced that they were no longer 242 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: allowed for in app purchases with within iOS devices. Interestingly enough, 243 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: if you're on an Android device, you can still make 244 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: an app purchases. Um. Uh, and I would suspect if 245 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: you're on a Kindle Fire you probably can as well. 246 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: I would imagine it's encourage you. Yeah. Um. But it 247 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: basically works the same way as like an Amazon Kindle 248 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: app would work on an iOS device. In that like 249 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: the same way you can't buy your e books through 250 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: the kindle L app. You have to go to Amazon 251 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: site by your book and then when you go to 252 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: the Kindle app you can download it through your account. 253 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: So it works the same way now with comics Ology, right, 254 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: So that way they bypass the in app purchase and 255 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: Apple doesn't get that cut. So yeah, it will be 256 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: really interesting to see how that plays out politically, because 257 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: Apple could say, well, we'll just make sure that this 258 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: doesn't get featured in any way, so that exactly, it's 259 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: not that we might not necessarily remove it from the store, 260 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: but we don't have to, you know, we don't have 261 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: to profile it in the store either. And there are 262 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people in the comic book world who 263 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: were up in arms about it when it happened as well, 264 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: because they felt like that the in app purchases allowed 265 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: for more sort of um, compulsive buying or impulsive rather buying. Uh, 266 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: while you were reading, like let's say you finished Holk 267 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: number twelve and you said, wow, I immediately want to 268 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: read Hulk number thirteen. All you have to do is 269 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: just hit a button and it would it would charge 270 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: your credit card. Yeah, totally, And now you have to, 271 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: you know, go to to the desktop version, pay for 272 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: it there, and then download it in. So they're worried. 273 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: I think they're worried about the money, but I'll be 274 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see what the figures look like, 275 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: because numbers were very high. Ninety million dollars digital comics made, 276 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: which was almost a thirty percent increase over the year 277 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: before that. If you look at year over year gains, 278 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: it looks the story seems to be negative if you 279 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: were to just look at the percentages, and it's only 280 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: because you don't realize how young this industry is. So 281 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: from year one to year two it was a seven increase, 282 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: and then you have like a two hundred something percent increase, 283 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: and then a hundred something percent an increase, and now 284 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: a thirty percent increase, and you think, wait, that increase 285 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: is going down, But you have to realize that that 286 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: year one that was like a million dollars and year 287 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: two was eight million dollars. So the figures, while while 288 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: the percentages are going down, the actual figures of money 289 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: are are much higher. We're talking ninety million. Now, that's 290 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: a huge amount of money for something that's still so 291 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: young as this this particular form of distribution, and it's 292 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: still a smaller percentage than print holds in the industry, 293 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: but it is gaining. At the end of every year, 294 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: when you see interviews with comic book creators or publishers 295 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: or editors and they say, you know, they're asked what 296 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: their prediction is for the following year. They usually say 297 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: digital is going to get bigger and it and it 298 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: always does, right. And the nice thing for for the 299 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: comics industry right now is that it does not appear 300 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: to be taking a huge like it's not taking that 301 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: chunk out of the print side. I think that for 302 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: one thing, the success of comics and other forms of media. 303 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: And granted, you know we should say comics are go 304 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: well beyond superheroes. Superheroes is what we always think about 305 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: because they are the high profile ones, but comics are 306 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: all sorts of genres, not just superheroes. But I would 307 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: say that the superhero successes at the box office recently 308 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: Marvel in particular, have really helped drive more interest in 309 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: comic books. UM yeah, And and interestingly enough digital has 310 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: had a hand in that as well too, So like, 311 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: for instance, UM, Guardians of the Galaxy just I think 312 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: I read today it just hit seven hundred million dollars 313 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: for for sales in UM. Before Guardians of the Galaxy 314 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: came out, they Marvel knew that that property was fairly 315 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: unknown amongst people unless they were like hardcore comic book fans, 316 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: and so through digital they started publishing digital first only 317 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: comics about the characters about Rocket Raccoon and Groot and 318 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,959 Speaker 1: star Lord, trying to get people familiar with these characters 319 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 1: for they were either free or like super cheap likes 320 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: or something like that. So you would go, huh, I 321 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: heard this, Guardians the Galaxy thing's gonna come out later 322 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 1: this year. I'll click on that. Read that, and now 323 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 1: I sort of have an idea of who this raccoon 324 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: with machine guns is right going to the movie. Yeah, now, 325 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: and now I can understand how a raccoon can be 326 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: an action hero, right yeah? Yeah uh. And another interesting 327 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: note you have here going back to comics Ology is 328 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: the comics Ology Submit program, which allows the the independent 329 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: comics creators a chance at having their work featured and 330 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: carried by comics Ology. Yeah, so comics Oology Submit. I 331 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: think they unveiled that to two and a half years ago. 332 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: It was it was at a south By Southwest event. Um. 333 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, that's what I was talking about earlier in 334 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: terms of small press being able to find a place 335 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: to distribute their comics since Diamond h raised their premiums Um. Yeah, 336 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: so basically what you do, I've done it with one 337 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: of my books. You submit your book, you upload the files, 338 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: you um create an account through comics Ology. You have 339 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: to have a an Amazon sinked payments account of course. Uh, 340 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: it's kind so far. Yeah, it is. It's a lot 341 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: like that, and um, they will review it and determine 342 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: whether or not the content is safe for them to distribute. 343 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: So um. For instance, Uh, one of my books actually 344 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: got ding for music copyright because we had lyrics from 345 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: a song in there, and so we haven't resolved that yet. 346 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: But for instance, they wouldn't carry a book for that. 347 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: But like I have a horror book that made it through. 348 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: It's pretty it's pretty gory, and they're okay with that. Um, 349 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: they format it specifically for their devices because they have 350 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: a specialized I guess it's exclusive to comics Oology system 351 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: of reading called guided view technology, which is basically it 352 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: zooms in on the panels no matter what you're on, 353 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: if you're on a desktop or tablet or a phone 354 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: or whatever. It scales the panel to fit the screen 355 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: of the device you're reading at the time, so it's 356 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: it's readable and you can go panel by panel as 357 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: opposed to page by page exactly. Yeah, I read a 358 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: person's account of that, and they said it took some 359 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: getting used to it first. It felt a little odd, 360 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: just because you know, there's there's a certain way that 361 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: you've become accustomed to reading comics. But once you get 362 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: used to it, you really see the value in it. Yeah, 363 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: I am definitely a convert. Um. I love Guided You, Um, 364 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,479 Speaker 1: not just because comics Oology carries some of my books, 365 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: but I love Guided You because it zooms in so 366 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: close on the panels that I can really see almost 367 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: at life size, the artists renderings of how they're working 368 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: on stuff. Usually artists work at a much larger scale 369 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: than what's printed, and so you get to see it 370 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: at the scale that they were drawing it at, and 371 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: the fine details that you normally wouldn't notice. And I 372 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: really like that, um, and the it is it is interesting. 373 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: It sort of changes the language of comics if you're 374 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: talking about it in like a formalist perspective, because before, 375 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: when you're reading common because you were looking at all 376 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: the panels on a page simultaneously, but you were reading 377 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: the panels in sequential order, whereas now, depending on the 378 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: settings that you put in in in guided view, you'll 379 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: just see the first panel, and I'll scroll those second 380 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: panels so you won't necessarily see what's at the bottom 381 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: of the page that you want to. So you could, 382 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: in theory, as a creator, you could you could bank 383 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: on certain things actually being a surprise without it having 384 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: without requiring a page flip. Right, Yeah, like if you 385 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: write exactly what you used to have as page turn 386 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: cliff hangers, what you can now do within panel to 387 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: panel if you if you so choose, that's really cool 388 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: us as a storyteller, I really think that's neat to 389 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: give extra tools like that. So we've got some other 390 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: ones that you've listed here that we can kind of 391 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: mention some of the other platforms, some of which were 392 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: instrumental early on but never really stuck around someone, which 393 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: are still around today. So why don't we go through 394 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: some of those. Okay, So let's start with long Box, 395 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: which was created by a comic book creator named I 396 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: think he pronounced his name Rance Hoseley. He is most 397 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: known for being the editor of It's a book called 398 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: Comic Book Tattoo that was a compilation of comic book 399 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: stories based on Torre Amos songs, but he's done other 400 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: comics work. For a number of years now. He developed 401 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: the idea for long Box back in two thousands and seven, 402 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: and I remember being I was at the Hero's Con 403 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: convention in North Carolina pushing my books and he had 404 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: he had just done a panel about long Box, and 405 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: everybody who went to that panel came running down to 406 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: the floor and they're like, Oh my god, this is 407 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: going to be the next big thing, this is going 408 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: to be the big break for books. We've all got 409 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: to sign up with this guy. And then it completely flopped. Um, 410 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: it just I don't know if it was technology issues 411 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: or business related issues or what, but long Box didn't 412 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: come out at a pace that was competitive enough, competitive 413 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: enough with comics ology, and it was largely focused on 414 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: desktop reading rather than mobile and tablet reading. So I 415 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: think in the end that is probably what killed it. 416 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: Uh and and and it's I think he ceased running 417 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: it as a company in and in two thousand seven. 418 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: That's the year when the iPhone came out. So, I mean, 419 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: no one was predicting the huge move to mobile at 420 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: that time because there there had not been a smartphone 421 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: to take off, at least in the United States and 422 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: the consumer marketplace. I mean, you had executives running around 423 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: with blackberries, and that was and nobody was thinking about 424 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: reading comics on their BlackBerry and so. And then of 425 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: course the iPad, Like there had been tablet computers before, 426 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: but no one had made one that really appealed to 427 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: the general consumer. That iPad wouldn't come out until two 428 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: and when the iPad came out, comics Ology was already 429 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: in business. But I remember then too, When the iPad 430 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: came out, a lot of people were like, Oh, this 431 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,479 Speaker 1: is going to kill print because everybody's going to move 432 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: to digital. They're going to prefer the tablet and not 433 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: having to have you know, actual physical lung boxes stacked 434 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: up in their basement or their closets somewhere, just having 435 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: their comics backed up on a hard drive. But that 436 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: hasn't necessarily happened yet. Most digital readers still read print. Yeah, 437 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: you can't really dismiss the like there are people who 438 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: really enjoy collecting, like they love to have the physical collection, 439 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: the physical representation of the thing they love. There's an 440 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: emotional attachment to that. Same thing is true for people 441 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: who really love books. There are people who will argue 442 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: till the end of time that a physical book is 443 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: going to be a superior experience than having something digital. 444 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: I used to be one of those people. Then I 445 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: moved into a house that has less space, and now 446 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 1: I trumpet the value of the electronic format. Yeah. I 447 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: actually moved completely digital with my comics other than uh 448 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: like hard bound ex exclusive editions that I can't download 449 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: onto my device. Uh but yeah, about two years ago, 450 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: I used to get all my comics through direct mail, 451 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: and then I did the math and it turned out 452 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: that it was going to be cheaper and faster for 453 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: me to get them digitally and I wasn't going to 454 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: have to fill up my closet anymore with all these 455 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: books on the shelf. Right. The downside being that you 456 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: can't uh one day end up selling your your collection 457 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: for something that Yeah. Yeah, even with some of the 458 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: DRM stuff that we'll talk about later, I doubt that 459 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: any of my the PDFs of my comments are going 460 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: to sell for anything. So another one that we have 461 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: here is Graphically. Yeah. Graphically is a really interesting company, 462 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: and again I had personal experience with them. They carried 463 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: a book of mine as well. Was started by a 464 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: guy named Michael Baldwin, who is largely known as the 465 00:25:54,400 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: guy who coined hashtag follow Friday on Twitter. But he um, 466 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: I've had some conversations with him, especially when I was 467 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: working with graphically and for distributing my book, and he's 468 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: he's a really cool guy, but he sees himself as 469 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: sort of like a startup mentor and helps out other startups. Graphically. Um. 470 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: They again weren't really able to compete with comics Ology 471 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: in terms of the publishers that they were getting exclusive 472 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: rights to and how the their comics were read, the 473 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: actual consumption of the product. So in April of uh, 474 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: they emailed all of their creators and I received this 475 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: email and said, Hey, we are turning into an e 476 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: book company instead, and so what we're gonna do now is, 477 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: rather than have a digital comics platform for devices, we're 478 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: going to offer distributing your comics to all of the 479 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: more popular e book platforms. So kindle, Uh, Cobo, is 480 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: Cobo even still around? I don't know that it's still around, 481 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: but I do remember it. Yeah, Cobo. They did Nook, 482 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: Google and iTunes, obviously, and so if you are already 483 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: one of their partners, they automatically did that for you. 484 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: But if you wanted to submit a new book. You 485 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: would pay a fee, you'd get an I sp N number, 486 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: and they would distribute it to those uh different systems. 487 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: That didn't work out so well for them. They tried 488 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: to sort of market it as a children's book market 489 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: rather than comics, and that didn't really work out for them, 490 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: and in May of this year they closed their doors. Uh. 491 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: The stories that I've heard are that, uh, they weren't 492 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: acquired by this company, but that six of their remaining 493 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: employees were hired by a company called Blurb that specializes 494 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: in print on demand books and then uh, sadly some 495 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: of the creators have been kind of left out. Yeah, 496 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 1: there have been uh a number of complaints that creators 497 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: who were expecting payment from Graphically never saw a check 498 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: show up in their bank account or their direct deposits 499 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: show up four books that they sold through graphic And 500 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: this this is kind of it's sort of a microcosm 501 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: of what you saw with the dot com bubble verse too. 502 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: You see like a flood of competitors and then h well, 503 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: with the dot com bubble, it was just suddenly confidence 504 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: totally was pulled away from the entire industry. Yeah, I mean, 505 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: in the same way iTunes rose to the top of 506 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: the MP three game. I would say that Comxology has 507 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: sort of carved itself out, you know, a niche for 508 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: for comic digital comics. Yeah. I like that you have 509 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: i Verse here because of course they they distribute my 510 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: favorite comic of all time, Archie. Yeah. Yeah, Archie comics 511 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: are getting to be awesome. Man, Like, there's been some 512 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: really cool stuff that's been happening in the Archie universe lately. 513 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: Like they have this horror book called Afterlife with Archie 514 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: that is just I love this stuff. But yeah, I 515 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: remember hearing about the one about like looking into the future, 516 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: and uh yeah, there's some pretty crazy stuff. Yeah, they've 517 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: been doing some really kind of progressive, interesting stuff with Archie. 518 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, because you would not have predicted. No, it's 519 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: not the past of arch comics. Yeah, but yeah, they're 520 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: exclusively distributed through I Verse and their app is called 521 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: Comics Plus and I Versus another one that had difficulty 522 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: competing with Comics Ology. They haven't closed their doors yet, 523 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: and really like they're the niche that they're trying to 524 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: make for themselves right now is that they want to 525 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: distribute comics to libraries as um the same way that 526 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 1: like Overdrive distributes e books to libraries, and so they've 527 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: made a library edition of their app and their marketing 528 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: themselves pretty heavily to the library world. So we'll see 529 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: if if that play is out or not. A lot 530 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: of it's gonna depend on licensing with their publishers. Then 531 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: you've got dark Horse where they have their own app. Yeah, 532 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: dark Horse is interesting and that unlike a lot of 533 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: other companies who all just signed on with comics Ology 534 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: or i vers or graphically, dark Horse said hold up, 535 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: we're not going to just jump into this digital comics game. 536 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: And they waited and developed their own app. So again 537 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: they're not having to split person scentage write that distributor 538 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: there because they own the huge chunk of it. Yeah. Yeah, 539 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: And the interesting thing there is that, you know, this 540 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: is one of those deals that makes it tough to 541 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: be a consumer in the sense that you can't go 542 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: to a one stop shop and get all the things 543 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: you want. You have to have multiple apps. If you 544 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: are a true connoiseur of comics and you like lots 545 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: of titles across lots of publishers, it makes it more complicated, 546 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: like with reading the comics themselves. You have to really 547 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: be aware of the landscape and the almost continuity of 548 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: of where to get digital comics, yeah, because they're kind 549 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: of all over the place right now. Then you've got 550 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: Electric Comics that was just announced this year and they 551 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: haven't actually, as far as I know, distributed or produced anything. 552 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: But it's the claim to fame is that Alan Moore, 553 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: who you know wrote Watchmen and From Hell and Leak 554 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: of Extraordinary Gentleman, is widely regarded as one of the 555 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: best writers of comics. He is part of the team 556 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: that is putting together Electrocomics, along with his daughter Leah 557 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: Moore and her husband John Reppiano. And then we've got 558 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: this self published category here. Yeah. So some people have 559 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: decided that rather than sign on with comicsz Oology or 560 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: or any of these other distribution services, that what they'll 561 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: do is they'll put out their own comics, but they'll 562 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: do it as PDFs and uh. It's sort of like 563 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: the Radiohead model of distributing an album digitally. Uh. And 564 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: the the two guys who are really at the forefront 565 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: of this are Brian Cavan and Marcos Martine, who produce 566 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: a book called The Private Eye and their Their digital 567 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: distribution company is called Panel Syndicate. And so these are 568 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: d M free, DRM free downloads of their books. You 569 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: choose how much you pay for them, which is an 570 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: interesting model as well. And uh and basically you can 571 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: do whatever you want with the PDF. Once you've downloaded, 572 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: you can also get Sorry, there are other formats too. 573 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: I mean I primarily read PDFs, but there's CBZ, which 574 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: is a comics reader type type software. Yeah, it's it's 575 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: really interesting because it does display both sides of the 576 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: democratization of the web. Yeah. And but I would say this, 577 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: like with radio Head, the reason why these guys are 578 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: able to succeed is because they're both already big names 579 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: in the world of comics. Brian Kavon wrote for Lost 580 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: and like, uh, you know is uh it was fairly 581 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 1: successful with the books that he wrote for Marvel and 582 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,239 Speaker 1: independently and is still writing. He still he writes an 583 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: independent book for Image right now called Saga that's incredibly successful. Uh. 584 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that later. Actually Saga actually ties 585 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: into some of those digital comics uh stuff. But the 586 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: thing that's really interesting about the Private Eye this is 587 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: like maybe only a month ago, is they announced that 588 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: they had made Uh they were vague about it, but 589 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: they said six figures in terms of dollars that they've 590 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: made off of their book and a number of downloads, 591 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: which is pretty big for an independent comic book. Well, yeah, 592 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: especially if you're with such a you know, dramatic different 593 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: approach to pricing. I mean the fact that it's one 594 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: of those things that that you the cynic immediately thinks. 595 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: So everyone's just gonna go for the lowest amount of 596 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: or they'll wait till they'll they'll they'll give their friend 597 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: a nickel and then the friend downloads in since it's 598 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: CRM free, that just copy. But that's not what we're seeing, 599 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: which is great. Um. I also like that it is 600 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: a great illustration, Like you point out, you know, these 601 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: are guys who are known, so the average creator is 602 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: not necessarily going to see any kind of success on 603 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: the same level as what they saw. And also it 604 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: shows that, um, you know, you can try and go 605 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: it alone, but it is often a lot easier if 606 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: you're using an established platform. We see this across all 607 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: sorts of media as well. YouTube is a great example. Right, 608 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 1: I could create my own video web video stuff, not 609 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: use YouTube but that's where the audience is, and that's 610 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: that's where I'm going to get the most eyes. Um. 611 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: And it's also they've already done a lot of the 612 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: work for me, so sure if I have I try 613 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: to monetize it, they're going to take a cut. Yeah, 614 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: And they have a pre built in monetization system where 615 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: the Brian Cavan and Marcos Martin are having to do 616 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: their own books on this too. I would assume or 617 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: pay somebody to do it right, right, which is another 618 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: that's another expense and another another thing that you're accountable for. Yeah. 619 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: Then we've got Marvel Unlimited. Yeah, so Marvel. Both Marvel 620 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: and d c uh distribute their comics through Comics, Oology 621 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: and other platforms. But Marvel has this thing called Marvel Unlimited, 622 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: which I'm a subscriber to. I just subscribed in the 623 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 1: last couple of months and I've been enjoying it. It's 624 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: ten dollars a month and you get access to almost 625 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: their entire lie very up to six months ago of publications. 626 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: So you don't get comics that have been printed in 627 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 1: the last six months, but everything before that. Um, there's 628 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: some obscure stuff that isn't in there. If you're really 629 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: hunting down for some weird comic Marvel published in or 630 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: something like that, you might not find it, but there 631 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: is a lot of content in there. And you know, 632 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: if you factor in that, like the average print comic 633 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: cost nowadays, uh, if you just read three books on 634 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: Marvel Unlimited a month, it's worth your money, right. Yeah, 635 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: it's interesting. I've seen. One of the biggest criticisms I've 636 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: seen toward digital comics is not any sort of limitation 637 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: that is due to the technology. It's that you actually 638 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: have the the potential to have and entire backlog available 639 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: for purchase. So for those so those folks who want 640 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: the complete collection of a title, uh, you know, it 641 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: may be prohibitively expensive or impractical for them to do 642 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: that with a print edition, and they may be they 643 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: may just want to have I just want this full story, 644 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: I want this character arc, or I want this uh 645 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: incredible storyline that that went through multiple issues from beginning 646 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: to end, and I can't find it in the physical format, 647 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: or if I do, you know, one of those issues 648 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 1: is ridiculously expensive. So item type stuff. Sure, yeah, So 649 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,280 Speaker 1: this would be the opportunity for companies to actually continue 650 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: to make money off of old I p they have 651 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: in ellectual property that they have um, Because for the 652 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,800 Speaker 1: most part, if you're going out to a comic bookstore 653 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: and you see a copy of a comic that you 654 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: really wanted and it happens to be a few hundred dollars, 655 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: here's the news flash. That few hundred dollars is not 656 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: going to the company published it. So this is a 657 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: way for them to actually make money off of stuff 658 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: they've already made aid um. I imagine that the rights 659 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: issues are probably pretty complicated with that too, depending upon 660 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 1: how the contracts were formed for the various writers and artists. 661 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: That is a story all on its own. For the 662 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: comics world. That would be a whole another public podcast. Yeah, 663 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: we probably a whole another show exactly, not an episode 664 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: that would be we could do comics stuff and have 665 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: just a and and arc episodes that all talked about 666 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: the complicated contract issues that have plagued the comics industry. 667 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: And as we're recording this last week, the Curbya States 668 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: settled with Marvel actually, which is pretty historic. Yeah, that 669 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: was one of those big stories for a really long time. 670 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: So this is uh, you know, it's not a huge 671 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: shock to me that the entire backlog is not available. 672 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: It is the dream right to have that that access 673 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: where you can suddenly say, like I've always been scared 674 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: to ask people, but now I can finally find out 675 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: what Secret Wars really was all about. Yeah, yeah, there 676 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: you go. Well it's very timely. They just announced this 677 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: week that there's another Secret Wars. They're doing a third one. 678 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 1: It would be the third one, right, they're not going 679 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: to call it Secret Wars three. I think it's just 680 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: being called Secret Wars. But yeah, at least that's if 681 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 1: they're bringing the Beyond Her back. I'm happy. Yeah, at 682 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: any rate. Well, so we talked a bit about the pricing. 683 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: The pricing can range from around the same price as 684 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,359 Speaker 1: what you would find for the print book. Sometimes you'll 685 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: find it cheaper um. And we also talked about how 686 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 1: with the platform taking a cut and the distributor taking 687 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: a cut, and the creators getting a small cut, sometimes 688 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: a small cut, that it can sometimes be less profitable 689 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: for a creator than the print depending upon the actual 690 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: how that all falls out. Sure, And I will say 691 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: this though too, that like once you've put your book 692 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: on a platform, uh, there aren't costs involved. Actually for you, 693 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: you don't have to pay comics Ology to put your 694 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: book on their platform yet across your fingers. They just 695 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: take a cut of what you make, right exactly. Yeah, 696 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: so uh yeah, Like, for instance, my book that's on 697 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: there right now, I think I made like forty cents 698 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: off of it, like last quarter or something. I've I've 699 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: seen my dad's a writer. I've seen royalty checks about that. 700 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, so I mean I'm not living off 701 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: of it, but at least people are reading it. But 702 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: the neat thing is that, you know, while you could 703 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: say the cut for a creator is smaller, the potential 704 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: audience is larger. Like the fact that you know you're 705 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: gonna find comic book stores that aren't going to carry 706 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: certain titles just because they figure that they're the readers 707 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,879 Speaker 1: aren't that interested, or maybe they've only ordered a few 708 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: copies of them and therefore there's not a whole lot 709 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: for Yeah, that's definitely true. Um. There is some regulation 710 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,280 Speaker 1: about what kind of comics can be distributed through comics ologies, 711 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: app um, but that is mostly content graphic violence or 712 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: sexuality stuff like that. But yeah, independent small press stuff 713 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: is in there just as much as Wolverine and Secret 714 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 1: Wars or whatever big you know, Superman, uh title that 715 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 1: you can think of, and they're by and large. Yeah, 716 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: you could say that it's an equal playing field, but uh, 717 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: those companies have part you know, handshake deals with comics Ology. 718 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: They're featured in the the really like hot click areas 719 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: on the site or on the app, and uh and 720 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: they also have great sales. Every Monday, Marvel does a 721 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: sale where some Marvel series is cents a book or 722 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: something like that. And pretty much every weekend there's a 723 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: big sale from a number of publishers. And what's what's 724 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: interesting there to me? As well as that, uh, you know, 725 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,879 Speaker 1: we could we could see a lot of implementation of 726 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: especially now that Amazon has Comics Oology, seeing more implementation 727 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: of the sort of algorithms Amazon uses to suggest alternate 728 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: or additional titles, things that you would like based upon 729 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: the stuff that you already have shown an interest in. Yeah, 730 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: Comics Oology did do that and does do that. I 731 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: think it's going to get better as part of their acquisition. 732 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: And that's fantastic that that becomes a discovery tool. I mean, 733 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: discoveries like the big thing for a lot of different 734 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: apps out there, and you know, it was a real 735 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: buzzword for a while, but it's generally one of those 736 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 1: things that I rely upon, like whether it's Netflix, Amazon, whatever. 737 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: Pandora is a great example of of me discovering stuff 738 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: I did not know about. But because of my my 739 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: viewing habits or my consumption habits, I am I am 740 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,479 Speaker 1: almost guaranteed to enjoy. So. And one of the things 741 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: that's really uh unique about digital comics as well, at 742 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: least in theory, is that we know that there is 743 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: a stigma for certain readers of walking into a comic 744 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: bookstore and buying a comic book, uh, and that they, 745 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,320 Speaker 1: for whatever reason it is, they may feel uncomfortable about 746 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 1: doing that or and and and for that reason maybe 747 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: quit reading comics years ago. With digital comics, you don't 748 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: have that stigma because you're just sitting on your device. 749 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: And so in theory, we're getting back an audience A 750 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 1: large part of that, and I mean, you know, we're 751 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: we're kind of we were dancing around it right there, 752 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,319 Speaker 1: but a large part that is the female audience. Yeah, 753 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: oh definitely, yeah, um they right, you see all kinds 754 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,880 Speaker 1: of One of my favorite sites that focuses on comics 755 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: and sci fi popular culture is the Mary Sue, and 756 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,439 Speaker 1: it focuses on it from a female perspective. Uh, and yes, 757 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: they often joke about the ideas of what it's like 758 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: to be a woman going into a comic book store, Um, like, oh, 759 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 1: you're buying this for your boyfriend. Yeah, and sometimes those 760 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 1: are stereotypical, and sometimes they are. It depends on your 761 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,800 Speaker 1: local comic book store. Yeah, it depends on the culture 762 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 1: and environment that they build there. But yeah, yeah, a 763 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:06,839 Speaker 1: lot of it is based more on on kind of 764 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: the generalized idea of what a comic store is. I mean, 765 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: we've we've seen that depiction multiple times in various forms 766 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: of media. There's obviously like the comic book guy from 767 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,319 Speaker 1: the Simpsons. Yeah, exactly, that stereotype right there. Yeah, I've 768 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,759 Speaker 1: actually been in those comic stores though, so yeah, that 769 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: was back in the eighties. Maybe they're a little better 770 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: than that now that We've got a couple of comic 771 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: bookstores in Atlanta that I've seen, uh, that seemed to 772 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: be pretty cool about that sort of thing. Atlanta has 773 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: a decent comic book community, both in terms of creators 774 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,760 Speaker 1: and and uh retailers. Yeah, I wanted to talk about 775 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: this regulation issue that you've you've laid out in the notes, 776 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: because it is really interesting. It's one of those things that, uh, 777 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: when you first think about, you would think, oh, the 778 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,960 Speaker 1: digital approach would be something that would free you up 779 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: from the restrictions that you might face in a brick 780 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: and mortar store. But that's not necessarily the case, right, 781 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: especially when you're working together with big companies like Apple. 782 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: Um So, Apple is very careful about what goes into 783 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: their ecosystem. Um I think most tech stuff listeners are 784 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: probably aware of that and how controlled the environment is 785 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: in terms of what apps you can download and what 786 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: contents of And what's interesting is that they don't necessarily 787 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 1: publish what the criteria are exactly. So it's kind of 788 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: like submitting a film to the m p A. A 789 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: don't you can never be sure if you're going to 790 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 1: get that hard are if you're gonna get a PG 791 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 1: thirteen that sort of thing. In a similar way with 792 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: the Apple app store, you don't you don't necessarily know 793 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,360 Speaker 1: you know what things are going to be, uh, what 794 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: things are just gonna glide on by, or what things 795 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: are going to hit at a brick wall. It does 796 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: It really depends. And so what's interesting is that yes, Um, 797 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: comics Ology was reluctant to distribute some material for a 798 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: while and then UM back to this Brian Cavan, who 799 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: is a pretty well known guy and has a popular 800 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:13,439 Speaker 1: book called Saga. In April, Saga number twelve came out 801 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: and it had a very small scene in it you 802 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 1: would you would miss it if you blinked um of 803 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: gay sex between two characters, and it was pulled out 804 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: of the comics Oology store the day that it was released. 805 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: People were furious about it, people meet being readers, I 806 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: mean m Brian Cavan himself issued a statement about it 807 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,840 Speaker 1: and and thought that it was Apple, that it was 808 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,000 Speaker 1: because of Apple's censorship. It turned out that actually what 809 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 1: was happening was that comics Ology, in anticipation of Apple's policies, 810 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:54,120 Speaker 1: were doing their own presensoring before they were submitting stuff. 811 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: And so they saw that in the issue and they 812 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: said there's no way that's going to get past Apple, 813 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: and they didn't bother submitting it. And then I think 814 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: like within two or three days this admitted to Apple 815 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: and it was up in the store and everything was forgotten. 816 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 1: But it's one of those things where because of Apple's 817 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: reputation of the way they handle things in the App store, 818 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: I mean Comics Oology. When you look at it, it's 819 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: handling titles from so many different publishers. It's I mean, 820 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 1: this is a big business thing. If this were something 821 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 1: where suddenly the Comics Oology app was was discontinued in 822 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 1: the Apple Store, that would be catastrophic. So you can 823 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: understand a year catastrophy, you can. You can understand there 824 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,960 Speaker 1: there there the way why they were being so conservative 825 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: in that sense, although certainly some communication from Comics Oology 826 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 1: might have been merited, I suspect that since then, so 827 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,360 Speaker 1: that was over a year ago, that they have developed 828 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: a much better line of communication between their publishers and 829 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: themselves regarding content like that. But that said, there is 830 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: still content that's produced by fairly big publishers like Image Comics, 831 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,480 Speaker 1: who were the publisher of Saga, that you cannot buy 832 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,920 Speaker 1: in app through you know, you can't buy anything in 833 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: app anymore through iOS, but through Android or other devices. 834 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,400 Speaker 1: Um so, like there's a book that's by Matt Fraction 835 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,880 Speaker 1: and a guy named chips at are Ski called Sex Criminals, 836 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,919 Speaker 1: has been pretty popular in the last year or two, 837 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 1: and a couple of those issues have been banned from 838 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: the the in app purchases. But if you go to 839 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 1: their actual site, comics Oologies actual site, you can purchase 840 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: them there and then download them later touch. It's just 841 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,680 Speaker 1: not one that you can get buy directly from the 842 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: mobile device anymore. Well, uh one or the other. We 843 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 1: mentioned the idea of DRM as well. How how that's 844 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: a big issue. I mean, that's a big issue with 845 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 1: any kind of media that's distributed over the Internet. U. 846 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,720 Speaker 1: There are of course outlets that are putting out files 847 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 1: d r M free so that you don't have any 848 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,879 Speaker 1: restriction there. That seems to as a consumer, you want 849 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: that because it means that you have the freedom to 850 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: enjoy the content in whatever way you choose. UM. For example, 851 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, I've got a smartphone, I've got a tablet, 852 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,480 Speaker 1: I've got a laptop, I've got a desktop, and uh, 853 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 1: I want you know, I'm not I don't have a 854 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 1: big household, i don't have other people living with me 855 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: other than my wife. So it's really just gonna be 856 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,919 Speaker 1: me looking at whatever the content is, and I want 857 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,360 Speaker 1: to be able to do it wherever. However, from a 858 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: creator standpoint, a distributor standpoint. I totally understand the reticence 859 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,160 Speaker 1: to allow someone to do whatever they want with it, 860 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,880 Speaker 1: because what if I'm the guy who I live in 861 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 1: a college dorm and I've got this thing, and now 862 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: all the buddies that I have in my dorm, not 863 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,480 Speaker 1: just my dorm room, but my entire dorm now have 864 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,279 Speaker 1: it too, because I've made copies for them. That's the fear. Um. 865 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,160 Speaker 1: As it turns out, the music industry kind of bore 866 00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,840 Speaker 1: this out. If you make something easy enough to purchase, 867 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,800 Speaker 1: and you make it easy enough to consume, people purchase 868 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,560 Speaker 1: it in the consume it and the the number of 869 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:04,879 Speaker 1: pirates who are actually illegally stealing stuff is relatively low. 870 00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,399 Speaker 1: I mean that's a small number comparatively speaking. Yeah, it's 871 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:13,000 Speaker 1: and it's shrinking too. Um. Piracy and comics was a 872 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 1: big deal before digital comics were, uh, you know, coming 873 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 1: around in two thousand and seven, because pirates comic pirates, 874 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,280 Speaker 1: that's a weird word to say, but they were scanning 875 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,840 Speaker 1: the pages in and then making their own PDF or 876 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 1: CBC files, distributing on the torrents and such. Uh but 877 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,799 Speaker 1: so and and there was concern over that and how 878 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,600 Speaker 1: that was going to affect the print industry. But you know, 879 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,640 Speaker 1: everybody's still here. Um, But yeah, I mean, I'm sure 880 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,640 Speaker 1: you could go online right now and still find a 881 00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,640 Speaker 1: bunch of piracy sites. However, Um, you're right in that 882 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 1: digital comics and the ease of purchasing it and the 883 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: better reading experience that you get through it. You don't 884 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,800 Speaker 1: have to worry about getting a virus. Yeah, which is 885 00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: another big deal that that actually is true for all 886 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,319 Speaker 1: of the media as well. Yeah. I think I think 887 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,239 Speaker 1: it's only when you see the resistance from the the 888 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,719 Speaker 1: merchants side, or the distributor or the creator side. It's 889 00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 1: only then when you start to see the rise and 890 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,280 Speaker 1: piracy because people start to feel like there's no legitimate 891 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 1: way for them to get the thing they want, but 892 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 1: they still want that thing. There's actually a really cool story, 893 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,359 Speaker 1: and I didn't put this in the notes, but I'd 894 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,399 Speaker 1: love to tell it to you. So there's a guy 895 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,840 Speaker 1: named Steve Lieber who is a comic book artust. He 896 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: lives in Portland, and he worked on an independent book 897 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,359 Speaker 1: called Underground with a writer named Jeff Parker. And when 898 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:37,560 Speaker 1: their book came out in trade format, Steve realized that 899 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,640 Speaker 1: on four Chan people were distributing links to pirated versions 900 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,839 Speaker 1: of Underground, and instead of getting upset and yelling at them, 901 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: what he did was he went over and he started 902 00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:55,439 Speaker 1: interacting with the community there and engaging with them and saying, oh, hey, like, 903 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,200 Speaker 1: you know, I just like you to know, like, the 904 00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,360 Speaker 1: way that this book works out is that this is 905 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,080 Speaker 1: how we you know, this is how I make my 906 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: money off of it. This is how I make my living. 907 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: Here's the breakdown. He talked about that traditional breakdown of 908 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,720 Speaker 1: money between publisher and distributor and creator to them, and 909 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:18,320 Speaker 1: Underground saw this huge spike in orders on Amazon that month. 910 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,960 Speaker 1: I mean it was tremendous. The people said, oh cool, 911 00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 1: we get it. This guy, you know, needs to make 912 00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,200 Speaker 1: a living off this stuff. We like his content, and 913 00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,640 Speaker 1: they went and paid money for it. Yeah. I've seen 914 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,560 Speaker 1: that kind of story repeated in various forms of media. 915 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,200 Speaker 1: And now where these days, like in other kinds of media, 916 00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:40,400 Speaker 1: you're seeing patron Patreon, and patrons and Patreon are supporting 917 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,480 Speaker 1: directly supporting the folks who are making the stuff that 918 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,120 Speaker 1: they love. And I'm a Patreon supporter of a couple 919 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,719 Speaker 1: of different things. Yeah, I am too. Yeah, yeah, and 920 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,279 Speaker 1: so we're starting to see that there really is this 921 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,399 Speaker 1: this model there. The thing that needed to be there 922 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,759 Speaker 1: was the support system for it to happen exactly, and 923 00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,760 Speaker 1: once it was there, it did. So it's interesting because 924 00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:05,800 Speaker 1: you had the companies vilifying consumers and the consumers vilifying 925 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,000 Speaker 1: the companies, and then once the structure was there, everyone said, oh, 926 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: now we can work together, we can actually do exactly 927 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,279 Speaker 1: and it turns out that it's ninety million dollars a 928 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,000 Speaker 1: year worth of business. Yes. Now, to conclude this great, 929 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 1: great conversation, we have to bring up something that kind 930 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:26,719 Speaker 1: of shows the the vulnerability of the comics ology approach. 931 00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 1: I'm specifically talking about an event that happened back in 932 00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 1: March two thousand thirteen, the beginning of South By Southwest, 933 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 1: when Marvel decided to do a big event by giving 934 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:43,480 Speaker 1: away seven hundred first issues. Uh, and it turned out 935 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,279 Speaker 1: some people wanted them. Yeah, a lot of people like 936 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,919 Speaker 1: those Marvel comics, and everybody tried to download all seven 937 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,279 Speaker 1: hundred of them all at the same time. Christian, let 938 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,560 Speaker 1: me ask you something. When a huge number of people 939 00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:01,480 Speaker 1: try to access a limited amount of information on a 940 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:07,240 Speaker 1: limited number of servers, what typically happens. Well, it crashed. Yeah. Um, 941 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,839 Speaker 1: and it was not just the Marvel comics that were 942 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,600 Speaker 1: for free that crashed, but all of the comics available 943 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:19,040 Speaker 1: on comics Ology in total, which included the Comics Oology 944 00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,040 Speaker 1: Submit books that had launched also to by Southwest. So 945 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,200 Speaker 1: there are a lot of independent creators who were like 946 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,160 Speaker 1: I already have a hard enough time competing with Wolverine 947 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:33,680 Speaker 1: and spider Man for dollars, but now because they did 948 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,920 Speaker 1: this big giveaway, I think Comics Oology was shut down 949 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 1: for like three days, I want to say, and this 950 00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,439 Speaker 1: is this really goes to show the vulnerability of having 951 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,440 Speaker 1: a cloud based kind of approach to anything. So people 952 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,520 Speaker 1: even who had purchased stuff already, we're having trouble accessing things. 953 00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:51,600 Speaker 1: I couldn't access things. Yeah, and that's part of the 954 00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,759 Speaker 1: DRM thing too. That's been big with comic Xology this 955 00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,520 Speaker 1: year is that a lot of people argued against digital 956 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,160 Speaker 1: comics for a while because, as they said, well, at 957 00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,600 Speaker 1: the end of the day, you're just renting your comics, 958 00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,920 Speaker 1: You're not you don't own them. You don't own a 959 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:07,920 Speaker 1: file that you can turn to. It's off in the 960 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 1: clouds somewhere, and in the last year, Comics Oology is 961 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,279 Speaker 1: twice i think, made announcements that a number of publishers 962 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,960 Speaker 1: have gone DRM free, so you can actually download the 963 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,080 Speaker 1: file as opposed to just accessing the po Yeah. I 964 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,239 Speaker 1: mean I'm in the process of back downloading my entire 965 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,480 Speaker 1: archive onto like one terabyte hard drive at my house 966 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,319 Speaker 1: right now. Um. Yeah, I mean. The the beauty of 967 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,520 Speaker 1: the cloud is that it allows you to to access 968 00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,000 Speaker 1: your content on whatever device you know that has been 969 00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: authorized for it, wherever you are. That's the beauty. The 970 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,680 Speaker 1: downside is that if the cloud service goes down, you 971 00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,000 Speaker 1: don't have access to that material. And uh, in fact, 972 00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,440 Speaker 1: a very similar thing we can mention. Uh, there was 973 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,000 Speaker 1: a day, I think it was Tuesday, um, where Google 974 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,760 Speaker 1: Docs had some issues earlier in the day and suddenly 975 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,960 Speaker 1: we couldn't access Google Docs. And a lot of us 976 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,840 Speaker 1: are using Google Docs now to help create show notes 977 00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,640 Speaker 1: like what we're doing right, and then suddenly you don't 978 00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,719 Speaker 1: have access to that and you realize this is a 979 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 1: brilliant tool until it doesn't work. Yeah. And and I 980 00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,160 Speaker 1: think we all have this kind of magical idea that 981 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,600 Speaker 1: a company as big as Google could ever possibly crash, 982 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,160 Speaker 1: but it happens, It does happen. It's it's again, you know, 983 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,040 Speaker 1: not to put too much of a negative on cloud computing, 984 00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,440 Speaker 1: because obviously the same sort of problems can happen on 985 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,400 Speaker 1: a single machine. If I had if I had all 986 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,080 Speaker 1: these notes just stored on my computer and my computer crash, 987 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,440 Speaker 1: I'd be just as you know, out of luck. Or 988 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,640 Speaker 1: also like if a brick and mortar store said we're 989 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,600 Speaker 1: gonna give away seven marble issues every person who walks 990 00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,520 Speaker 1: in the door, you know, like there'd be so many 991 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,680 Speaker 1: people inside the store if it might fall over, the 992 00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,279 Speaker 1: same sort of thing, with the same sort of thing, 993 00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,880 Speaker 1: with a brick and mortar store saying we're not going 994 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,040 Speaker 1: to carry this title because we object to the content exactly. 995 00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:55,840 Speaker 1: It's it's the sort of thing that does happen. So 996 00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,600 Speaker 1: when it happens digitally, we tend to react in a 997 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,200 Speaker 1: very specific way. But if you think of it like, well, 998 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,680 Speaker 1: what if we just had, you know, translate this into 999 00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,080 Speaker 1: an actual physical location, would we be as surprised if 1000 00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,879 Speaker 1: it happened there? And often the answer is no, it's 1001 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:12,960 Speaker 1: just that we see that they think there's a different 1002 00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,920 Speaker 1: set of criteria to judge the digital experience from the 1003 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:20,680 Speaker 1: physical it is that I want it now sort of 1004 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,640 Speaker 1: mentality that we've become accustomed to with our content is 1005 00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,319 Speaker 1: the fact that the fact that digital can allow you 1006 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,799 Speaker 1: to have it now is you know, it'sn't like we 1007 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,319 Speaker 1: said and enabling. If I'm trying to watch Netflix and 1008 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,920 Speaker 1: the rings starts spinning ten minutes into a movie that 1009 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,920 Speaker 1: I'm watching, I get frustrated. At the same time, I 1010 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,719 Speaker 1: have to acknowledge, you know what, like there's how many 1011 00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,680 Speaker 1: customers as Netflix have out there, and maybe my bandwidth 1012 00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,840 Speaker 1: isn't so great or something. Yeah, I usually I just 1013 00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,080 Speaker 1: get mad at my internet service provider. Yeah, that's a 1014 00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,839 Speaker 1: common thing at my house. Well, Christian, thank you so 1015 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,719 Speaker 1: much for coming on the show and for suggesting this 1016 00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:57,880 Speaker 1: this topic. It was really cool to get into this. 1017 00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,920 Speaker 1: And uh, for people who are interested in learning more 1018 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,799 Speaker 1: about your work, why don't you tell them where to 1019 00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,640 Speaker 1: find it? Yeah, the best place to find me is 1020 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,080 Speaker 1: at Christian Sager dot tumbler dot com. That's where my 1021 00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,520 Speaker 1: personal work is posted, um, the comics stuff that I 1022 00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,040 Speaker 1: work on, and also I have links to the content 1023 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,680 Speaker 1: that I work on here at how Stuff Works. Um, 1024 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,360 Speaker 1: but you can find me here at how Stuff Works. UM, 1025 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,920 Speaker 1: I write for and sometimes host brain Stuff. I'm currently 1026 00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,920 Speaker 1: writing for our newest show, What the Stuff, which I 1027 00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:34,160 Speaker 1: think your first episode debut was while I was on vacation. Yeah, 1028 00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,320 Speaker 1: and I used to write for Stuff of Genius and 1029 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,240 Speaker 1: host new episodes of Bad, but that shows on hiatus 1030 00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,440 Speaker 1: while we're working on new content. Yeah, but keep your 1031 00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,400 Speaker 1: eyes up and never know when something that we put 1032 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,040 Speaker 1: on the back shelf comes back up. Well, Christian, thank 1033 00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,560 Speaker 1: you again, and guys, if you have any suggestions for 1034 00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,240 Speaker 1: future episodes of tech Stuff, please get intepted me let 1035 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,200 Speaker 1: me know what you think. Send me an email. The 1036 00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,560 Speaker 1: address is tech stuff at how stuff works dot com, 1037 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,440 Speaker 1: or brought me a line on Twitter, Facebook or Tumbler. 1038 00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,800 Speaker 1: The handle it all three of those is tech Stuff 1039 00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,680 Speaker 1: hs W and we'll talk to you again really soon 1040 00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,600 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics because 1041 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:26,560 Speaker 1: it has Stuff works dot com