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Speaker 1: This is Kelly Henderson and you are listening to the

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Speaker 1: Velvet Edge podcast. My guest this week is orthopedic surgeon

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Speaker 1: Dr David Hanscomb. Dr Hanscom made a name for himself

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Speaker 1: for many years as one of the top spinal surgeons

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Speaker 1: and has now completely quit surgery and is making waves

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Speaker 1: by actually talking patients out of surgery and providing alternative

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Speaker 1: methods to alleviate their chronic pain and ultimately live life

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Speaker 1: pain free. Dr Hanscomb is also a fellow COVID patient

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Speaker 1: and I was able to talk to him about my

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Speaker 1: symptoms after testing positive. He has created an entire plan

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Speaker 1: for treating COVID that involves treating things like anxiety and stress,

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Speaker 1: two of the root causes of inflammation, in order to

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Speaker 1: fight the virus. As bizarre as that sounds, it worked

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Speaker 1: for me and I believe it helped me heal much

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Speaker 1: more quickly. Dr Hanscomb broke down all of the details

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Speaker 1: of why that works. Here's our conversation. So you basically

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Speaker 1: become You've become known as the orthopedic surgeon known for

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Speaker 1: not for take patients out of surgery and providing an

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Speaker 1: alternative method UH to go to. That's for pain free.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm just I'm curious how you got there

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Speaker 1: because you practice as an orthopedic surgeon for so many

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Speaker 1: years and then in two thousand and eighteen you just

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Speaker 1: completely quit surgery. So let's go back and talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the process that got you there. Well,

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Speaker 1: I have been one of the few surgeons who has

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Speaker 1: been on both sides of this fence. I went to

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Speaker 1: a very high level spine fellership in Minneapolis, Minnesota six.

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Speaker 1: When I came in Seattle in six I was one

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Speaker 1: of the group of surgeons who did nine times the

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Speaker 1: rate of spine sturgeper capita as any place else in

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Speaker 1: the entire country. So I was a zealo. So I

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Speaker 1: thought the answer to back pain was a fusion. We

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Speaker 1: had new instrumentation, We thought we were on the forefront

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Speaker 1: of medicine doing these operations. But there's no data. And

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Speaker 1: in paper came out that the success rate of a

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Speaker 1: spine fusion for back pain it was and I just stopped.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do, but I knew I

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to keep doing this. In the meantime, running

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Speaker 1: around that period of time, I developed severe chronic pain

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Speaker 1: myself for the next thirteen years, I couldnot come out

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Speaker 1: of it, and I over seventeen physical symptoms. And it

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Speaker 1: was coming out of this process that I evolved the

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Speaker 1: process of coming out of chronic pain. But I did

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Speaker 1: know that surgery, so I didn't know. I was very

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Speaker 1: very aggressive doing the surgery and simply did not work.

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Speaker 1: So you said it was a twenty what what was

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Speaker 1: the percentage? And right? So, so I thought it was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a big operation to weld in

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Speaker 1: the spine together, it's got a significant complication rate. You

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Speaker 1: have a rate of reoperation within two years after the surgery,

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Speaker 1: and so people were expected. I thought it was success rate.

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Speaker 1: And there's not been one research paper in sixty years

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Speaker 1: the documents that a spine fusion is a good idea

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Speaker 1: for back pain, and not one, not one research paper.

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Speaker 1: Were over twenty billion dollars a year in spine serge

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Speaker 1: with a lot of it being net for that. So

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Speaker 1: why is it recommended so often if it does not

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Speaker 1: even have a high success right, I don't know, honestly.

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Speaker 1: I mean you can blame the financial issues. I mean,

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Speaker 1: usually spine survey is considered one of the number one

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Speaker 1: or two revenue producers have given a hospital and spine

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Speaker 1: fusions are a big generator of revenue, much more than

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Speaker 1: just a simple decompression. And I'm a spinal up deforming surgeon.

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Speaker 1: I'm a complex surgeons who I deal with all sorts

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Speaker 1: of redus. I've had one gentleman who had twenty nine

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Speaker 1: service in twenty years. So I'm the person who just

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Speaker 1: at the very end of the line stuff but was

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Speaker 1: just concerting. So when I look back to the original scans,

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Speaker 1: and I was quite diligent, and looking at that, probably

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Speaker 1: most of the time that first operation did not need

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Speaker 1: to be done. See, have one operation done that leads

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Speaker 1: to a cascade effect. Then you need more and more

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Speaker 1: surgeries to take care of the problem secreated by the

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Speaker 1: prior surgery. It's a nightmare. So the actual surgery is

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Speaker 1: then creating more problems than the person had to begin

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Speaker 1: with correct And the problem is what happens is that

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Speaker 1: you do a spine fusion. In other words, you weld

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Speaker 1: the two burnerby together with screws and plates and bone

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Speaker 1: graft and you're taking this beautiful mobile spine, even if degenerated,

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Speaker 1: it still moves, it has rhythm to it, and you're

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Speaker 1: put in a stiff piece of bone and scar tish

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Speaker 1: in middle of a spine. There's a stress point above

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Speaker 1: and below that fusion that with repetition, starts to break down.

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Speaker 1: There's a thirty percent chance if you spine breaking down

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Speaker 1: within ten years with the spine fusion. But finally drowing

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Speaker 1: me to quit to a spine surgery is that it

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Speaker 1: became more and more common, the more cleared the data became. Again,

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Speaker 1: every paper success rate get the volume of a spine

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Speaker 1: shut to continu used to increase. That was heaven eight, ten,

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Speaker 1: and twelve level fusions instead of one level of fusions

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Speaker 1: for back pain. There's no debtor to supporting a fortune

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Speaker 1: level of fusion for back paint that's from your neck

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Speaker 1: to your pelvis, and the complication rates. That's when I

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Speaker 1: decided I just couldn't do this anymore. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: it's so interesting because I always have this mentality about

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Speaker 1: surgeries and medicine, and I feel like a lot of

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Speaker 1: times in our culture, if you go see a doctor,

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Speaker 1: they're like, here, take this pill, and it doesn't actually

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Speaker 1: treat the root cause of what's going on. It just

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Speaker 1: treats the symptom. And so what I heard a lot

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Speaker 1: in um or read a lot in your book. Was

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Speaker 1: just that exact thing like doctors, like you said, not

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Speaker 1: having the data that backed up that's the surgery was

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Speaker 1: even going to help. But it was just like, here,

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Speaker 1: let's do this surgery that may not even actually fix

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Speaker 1: the root cause of your patient's well exactly. Well it

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Speaker 1: gets it gets much more complicated than that, but just

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Speaker 1: keep it really simple. Is that if you're gonna if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna take your card in mechanic, you want to

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Speaker 1: you want to know what the diagnosis is correct fix

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Speaker 1: that problem. So it happens with spine jury. Occasionally there's

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Speaker 1: a perfect bone spur. The pintures a given nerve, the

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Speaker 1: symptoms match exactly. Surgery works beautifully. But see, back pain

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Speaker 1: is very vague. We know that dist generation is normal

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Speaker 1: as you age, and we start doing effusion on a

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Speaker 1: given disk, there's no way of proving that it is

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Speaker 1: the source of the pain, and in fact, it's been

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Speaker 1: shown that discs are not the source of chronic pain.

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Speaker 1: Then additionally, we know that within six to two months,

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Speaker 1: the brand simply memorizes the pain. It's like riding a bicycle.

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Speaker 1: Once you have this pain memorized, it's a programming problem.

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Speaker 1: Once you have the pain memorized, you cannot learn it.

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Speaker 1: It's like right now by uscope. So you have memorized pain,

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Speaker 1: you have disc that are not the cause of pain,

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Speaker 1: you do effusion or memorized pain, and you do infusion

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Speaker 1: for a problem that has been proven not to be

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Speaker 1: the problem. Again, the success rates about of surprises that high,

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Speaker 1: So Curtainy works well when you've been matching symptoms, matching

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Speaker 1: psychology and you do the operation. And what my book

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Speaker 1: did called do you really need spoine jury to push

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Speaker 1: people into one or four quadrants with the variable as

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Speaker 1: being the structural problem? Yes or no? That we're just

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Speaker 1: surgery even possible. If you can't see it, you can't

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Speaker 1: fix it, so they call that non structural. If as

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Speaker 1: structural surgeries possible, then the state of the nervous system

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Speaker 1: is either calm or fired up or hyper vigilant. So

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Speaker 1: if you have a hyper vigilant, fired up nervous system,

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Speaker 1: any procedure can make things worse. So right now we're

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of surgery and people that have nothing

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Speaker 1: you can see on a test. That's I think spone

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Speaker 1: surgery simply should not be done at least se Wow.

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Speaker 1: So you're a big thing with patients. Um. I mean

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Speaker 1: this was maybe before you actually quit doing surgery altogether,

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Speaker 1: but you're a big thing. That you said was you

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Speaker 1: just have to get to know your patient. And so

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Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about that because

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Speaker 1: what you just said, um, is you're not actually seeing

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Speaker 1: our pinpointing the pain or where it's coming from. It's

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Speaker 1: just doing these surgeries. And so what were you seeing

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Speaker 1: and a lot of your patients that made you say,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, like why would we go directly to surgery? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, as I started through my own thirteen year

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Speaker 1: experience with or or deal with k of peanut came

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Speaker 1: out of chronic pain, I did learn it was a

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Speaker 1: neurological problem and that even with a structural problem that

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Speaker 1: you do surgery on, if you don't calm down the

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Speaker 1: nervous system first, the results are not very good. So

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Speaker 1: what I learned is that we were looked in at

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Speaker 1: me very carefully. And there's reparts is helping pain. One

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Speaker 1: is awareness, other words, you understand the diagnosis, understand the

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Speaker 1: nature pain in the nature of the solution. Then the

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Speaker 1: second aspect is pain is complicated surprected by lack of sleet,

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Speaker 1: stress medications, exercise, nutrition, All of those things affect pain

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Speaker 1: and you have to address all of those simultaneously. And

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Speaker 1: the third thing is that since pains complex and each

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Speaker 1: person who is an individual, the person has to take

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Speaker 1: charge of their own care. So what we found out

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Speaker 1: consistently we have had I saw hundreds and hundreds of

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Speaker 1: patients go through a similar process that I learned myself

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Speaker 1: the hard way as launching. It's essentially self corrected minimal

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Speaker 1: to no risk. So launch these people go to pain

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Speaker 1: free with minimal risk, minimal cost, and having horrible outcomes

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Speaker 1: with really expensive, risky procedures. So is that contrast that

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Speaker 1: made the difference. It turns to a chronic pain is

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Speaker 1: a neural logical problem. Okay, well tell us more about that,

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Speaker 1: because you keep referencing you learned this from your own experience.

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Speaker 1: So what happened to you that helped you to start

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Speaker 1: understanding that? I'm sorry, what happened with me personally? Yes,

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Speaker 1: because the other day when we were talking, didn't you

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Speaker 1: tell me that you kind of were known as a

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Speaker 1: person um that just didn't really have you know, they

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Speaker 1: have to deal with feelings you were just strong, you

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Speaker 1: were you just could do anything kind of person, and

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Speaker 1: then you had a breakdown. Right, So the problem basically

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Speaker 1: bills sound a threat versus safety, and threst could be

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Speaker 1: a bully or a virus or bacteria or a predator,

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Speaker 1: and a mental threst could be negative thoughts, emotions. But

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Speaker 1: even more importantly, as we pressed emotions and what could

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Speaker 1: me into serious troll as a spine shirt and I

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Speaker 1: want you very high. That was spin spine fellowship, spine

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Speaker 1: shergary is stressful, especially complexed by surgery. That was a

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Speaker 1: master as suppressing fear oceans and in the way I

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Speaker 1: did that was bringing on I can take anything. I

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Speaker 1: was tough. I was really really tough. And the problem

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Speaker 1: is that so good at suppressing emotions, I really the

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Speaker 1: word in psychology would be called dissociated. And I went

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Speaker 1: from literally having no anxiety to a panic attack in

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Speaker 1: one day. And after the panic attack, I could not

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Speaker 1: stop it. And as the first thing I liked, they

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Speaker 1: couldn't really control. I mean, is it sort of a

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Speaker 1: joke but not really that surgeons have control issues and

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Speaker 1: we do. We want to control the environment, we want

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Speaker 1: to control the outcomes, we want to control everything, but

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Speaker 1: which you can control is your body's chemistry. So with

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Speaker 1: the panic attacked as a master is suppressing and repressing emotions.

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Speaker 1: And when I when they exploded, it was like the

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Speaker 1: lid blowing off of a pressure cooker. So you were

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Speaker 1: having anxiety and panic attacks. Were you having any sort

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Speaker 1: of physical pain? What happened under sustained threat and over

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Speaker 1: No human being can escape through thoughts or emotions, so

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Speaker 1: we either stuff with them or or repress them. What

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Speaker 1: happens threat put the body on defensiveness, which includes the

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Speaker 1: immune system, which includes inflammatory cells. What happens with information

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Speaker 1: causes physical tissue damage. We know that we know that

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Speaker 1: chronic stress or sustained threat causes disease and the and

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Speaker 1: the question is why, So you know there's highernesses of

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Speaker 1: autoimmune disorders, higherances of cancer, heart disease, suicide, xiety and

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Speaker 1: depression is so what happens we have sustained levels of information,

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Speaker 1: it causes tissue damage is over thirty physical symptoms of

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Speaker 1: a sustained threat response. At the worst point of my ordeal,

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Speaker 1: I had seventeen of these at the same time, So

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Speaker 1: I had migraine, headaches, there was ringing in my ears,

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Speaker 1: burning in my feet, my scalputage, these all skin wrests

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Speaker 1: would pop up, a back pain, neck pain. To notice

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Speaker 1: all of these were the results of sustained threat and

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Speaker 1: sustained information. And when I learned the tools that calm

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Speaker 1: the stuff down, to calm the easy inflamatory markers down,

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Speaker 1: all the symptoms disappeared. I'm fine. Wow, So is that

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Speaker 1: when you say the chronic pain it's tied to our

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Speaker 1: nervous system? Can you kind of talk through that, because

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Speaker 1: I mean that sounds like a little bit of what

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Speaker 1: your experience looked like. And then also it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of what you've seen in your patients. Correct can tell

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Speaker 1: you just for a second? Sure, for some reason, I'm

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Speaker 1: ever really hard time understanding new Is it's a little

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Speaker 1: muffled somehow? So interesting? Let me see, I'm not quite

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Speaker 1: catching the questions. Are you able to understand me? Okay?

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Speaker 1: I can? Yes? Is it? Is it better if I

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Speaker 1: hold my microphone like this? Yeah? That's better. I feel

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Speaker 1: like there was a slight echo with it. Oh interesting, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me know if that happens again and all? Okay,

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Speaker 1: makes sure of Um, let me think, what did I

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Speaker 1: just ask you? There's something to do something to do

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Speaker 1: about the programming chronic pain. Okay, yes, um let me

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Speaker 1: see I probably have a question written down about that. Um. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like a little bit of your experience

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Speaker 1: was tying chronic pain to the nervous system. And it's

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Speaker 1: also it's it's highly what you've experienced with your patients, right,

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Speaker 1: So can you talk us through how that works? Give

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Speaker 1: me about how chronic pain evolves, yeah, and just how

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Speaker 1: it's connected to the nervous system. So I you probably

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Speaker 1: have had that. You've heard the term holistic medicine or

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Speaker 1: mind body medicine. Yes, so those are terms that it

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Speaker 1: used pretty frequently that I really object to because the

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Speaker 1: mind embody just a unit. In other words, your body

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Speaker 1: doesn't function without a nervous system. Nervous system can't fund

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Speaker 1: your function without a body to support it. So I

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Speaker 1: trying to fly a bointet without computers. It's just a unit.

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Speaker 1: So the only place in the body that pain is

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Speaker 1: perceived is in the brain. And what your body is

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Speaker 1: is a bunch of receptors vision, field, touch, taste, sharp bill.

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Speaker 1: All these sensations are coming into your body that are

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Speaker 1: are then sent to your brain. Your brain interprets that

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Speaker 1: is safe or dangerous. So things you're safe. You're full

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Speaker 1: of anti inflammatory stided finds with these little antiflammatory proteins.

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Speaker 1: You're full of oxtosin, growth hormone, dopamine, serotonin, these great drugs,

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Speaker 1: and your body regenerates. And so it's on interpreted by

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Speaker 1: your nervous system. Your nervous system every second is interpreting

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Speaker 1: every sense of the the input. They're all competing for attention,

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Speaker 1: and the sum total is summarized every second by your brain.

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Speaker 1: It gets safe, neutral, or dangerous. What happens with ongoing

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Speaker 1: again mental By the way, the mental pain is a

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Speaker 1: bigger problem in the physical pain because thoughts create the

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Speaker 1: same physical reaction in the brain as a physical threat,

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Speaker 1: but as a stain. So then you have a process

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Speaker 1: where you have sustained impulses, just like an athlete learning

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Speaker 1: the skill. There's a programming problem, so its repetition. Your

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Speaker 1: brain first of all becomes sensitized. And we know the

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Speaker 1: analogy of water torture, which is a little challenging able

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Speaker 1: to talk about. But they drop a poor prisoner down

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Speaker 1: to a board and they drip a drop of water

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Speaker 1: on his or her forehead, it's just a drop of water.

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Speaker 1: The drop of water does not change, but within a

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Speaker 1: short period of time that becomes like a sledgehammer. Every drop,

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Speaker 1: every time, nothing changed. They've also done research amery scans.

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Speaker 1: It's so little. Over a course of time, the brain

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Speaker 1: becomes more reactive to the same impulse. People in chronopin

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Speaker 1: always gets worse even without additional injury because of the

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Speaker 1: sensitization process. The next step is with repetition against a

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Speaker 1: programming problem like a baseball picture. Learning how to throw

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Speaker 1: a baseball at a hundred miles an hour. It takes

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Speaker 1: less repetition, and so the brain gets programmed and once

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Speaker 1: he gains programs like writing a buy scull becomes memorized

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Speaker 1: in permit painting pulses coming so quickly that the memorization

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Speaker 1: occurs within six to twelve months. That's been well documented

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Speaker 1: with research m r I scans. Then the final phase

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Speaker 1: is there's factors that are affect the perception of pain prints.

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Speaker 1: His lack of sleep causes pain, which I used to

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Speaker 1: think that people in chronic pain pulin sleep because of

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Speaker 1: the pain. Not true. It's actually the lack of sleep

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Speaker 1: actually causes chronic back pain, which is counterintuitive, right, But

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Speaker 1: what happens lack of sleep causes increased information which increases

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Speaker 1: the speed of nerve conduction. So you feel the pain. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So okay, Because when in your book you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the factors just to determine the state

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Speaker 1: of your nervous system, quality of sleep was like one

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Speaker 1: of the main things, and you say it's super important

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Speaker 1: to get what seven hours of sleep at night? Correct?

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Speaker 1: And so this is for this exact reason, like if

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Speaker 1: you are not sleeping, your body will physically start to

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Speaker 1: manifest certain conditions. There's another research papers there shows if

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Speaker 1: you miss one night of sleep, one bad nights to

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Speaker 1: sleep when creature pain the next day between Oh my god? Right,

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Speaker 1: So here's the deal. So which happening in spine surgery

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Speaker 1: is that there's a paper out of Baltimore published in

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Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen that showed the only ten of neurosurgeons

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Speaker 1: and orthoptic spine surgeons were addressing these risk factors for

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Speaker 1: poor outcomes prior to surgery. Sleep is one of them.

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Speaker 1: So why would you jump to ten hours of surgery

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Speaker 1: if you haven't found out that somebody's sleeping? Right, And

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Speaker 1: that's what start of the whole doc project. Because I

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Speaker 1: was in my own chronic pain process I read about sleep.

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Speaker 1: I started to work on it with myself. But with

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Speaker 1: my patients it's very concrete. It is always solvable, and

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Speaker 1: I know it's a dramatic decrease in their pain just

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Speaker 1: with the sleep conversial. If we didn't get to sleep

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Speaker 1: under control early nothing else work. So sleep is solvable.

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Speaker 1: It's always number one. There's a bunch of ways of

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Speaker 1: getting there. In chapter fourteen in my book, back and

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Speaker 1: Control is just about sleep, and sleep is absolutely foundations

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Speaker 1: starting the whole process. M hmm. What about when your

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Speaker 1: patients came in and you know they're mentioning this back

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Speaker 1: pain or these specific symptoms, and were you getting to

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Speaker 1: the place where you would start to say, okay, like

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Speaker 1: you mentioned the sleep thing. And then are you asking

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Speaker 1: them questions about the stress levels in their life to

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Speaker 1: also determine what's going on personally. Yes, and it doesn't. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's two things I can do. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 1: treating chronic pain is actually very time efficient because most

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Speaker 1: of the material you can get off a questionnaire and

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Speaker 1: people put it down. I mean people we've had a

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Speaker 1: bonspur for five or ten years and the payment have

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Speaker 1: started a year ago. Something changed invariably is almost a

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Speaker 1: life stress. The loss of a job, loss of a

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Speaker 1: family member, domestic abuse. I mean, I can't begin to

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Speaker 1: tell you how much people suffer that come into my

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Speaker 1: office in crime pain and again that's suffering translates into

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Speaker 1: inflammatory changes in the body, which increases the pain. So

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Speaker 1: you can't treat simp I mean what medicine is doing

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Speaker 1: right now, we're throwing random, simplistic solutions at a complex problem.

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Speaker 1: You can't treat a patient in isolation because the response

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Speaker 1: to the environment changes the body's chemistry. So somebody's going

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Speaker 1: home into an abuse relationship. Surgery is not going to

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Speaker 1: help that, and it is not psychological. That is a

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Speaker 1: flat out huge threat. Your body is on fire and

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Speaker 1: the root causes the information, not the structure, right, because

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Speaker 1: the structure is what it's all like. You're saying, there's

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Speaker 1: no reason to ever do surgery, right because I think,

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Speaker 1: like you know a lot of people, I do talk

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Speaker 1: about holistic approaches a lot because I really buy into

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Speaker 1: are the like our bodies healing themselves. I think they're

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Speaker 1: incredible the way they can do that. If you can however,

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Speaker 1: there are situations where there's a structural issue and you

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Speaker 1: do need to have surgery. So it's not always that,

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Speaker 1: But you're just saying you look at the bigger picture

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Speaker 1: such as stress, such as lack of sleep, um whatever,

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Speaker 1: other emotional mental things are happening in these people's lives

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Speaker 1: that they're not dealing with. But what I thought was

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Speaker 1: so interesting is people's resistance to this kind of mentality.

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Speaker 1: So did you bump up against that a lot? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean people have a I mean we're so programmed

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Speaker 1: to think that the structure is the problem and this

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Speaker 1: surgery is going to solve that. Okay, But again, by

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Speaker 1: the time I g do with my practice, what the

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Speaker 1: data says to do, this has been around for fifty

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Speaker 1: years again, is that you do is leap anxiety, contestrophizing, depression, exercise, medication, stabilization.

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Speaker 1: We call it prehab, and we put all of our

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Speaker 1: patients through three or four months of this before we

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Speaker 1: did any surgery. In my larger surgeries to spinal deformity surgeries,

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Speaker 1: I would do it for a year and what would

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Speaker 1: happen is they started the normalizer bodies chemistry that pain

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Speaker 1: would disappear, even with major surgical problems. They would cancel

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Speaker 1: the surgery, not because they wanted to live with the pain.

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Speaker 1: The pain would actually disappear. That was a shock. I

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Speaker 1: always said, if you have a structural problem, fix it quickly.

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Speaker 1: But it turns out that the pain gets memorized, it

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Speaker 1: does get connected with more and more life is life experiences.

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Speaker 1: And so what you're doing around pain, such of these

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Speaker 1: permanent pathways, like writing a bicycle, you're creating detours around those.

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Speaker 1: And I'm now convinced you can actually program your brain

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Speaker 1: around anything. And I just recently had a gentleman who

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Speaker 1: had twenty seven surgeries in ony years and he was

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Speaker 1: a mess opioids, alcohol, divorce, all sorts of stuff. He's fine,

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Speaker 1: he's been pain free for four years. I did not

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Speaker 1: think that was possible. People with phantom limb pain, no arm,

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Speaker 1: no legs, you still feel the pain and they can

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Speaker 1: program themselves right around it. So what you're doing is

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Speaker 1: like installing a virtual desktop in your computer with the

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Speaker 1: new desktalk not having pain. It's it's remarkables all bous

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Speaker 1: on neal plasticity, where your brain is physically changing every second.

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Speaker 1: What you're doing, you're directing traffics for your brain go

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Speaker 1: as a certain direction. So when you say our bodies

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Speaker 1: memorized pain, how does that happen? Well, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: like writing my scoll. With any skill, you focus on

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Speaker 1: it and you learn with reputation. I mean what I

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Speaker 1: use is a metaphors like learning a new language. The

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Speaker 1: way you're learning for and as you read the book,

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Speaker 1: you learn the burbs. You listen, you may immerse yourself

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Speaker 1: in the language, but listening, in five years you can

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Speaker 1: speak French. Your brain changed. You have new neurons, new dendrites,

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Speaker 1: new milin nucleo cells. I mean, your brain changes every second.

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Speaker 1: So it happens is that muscle memory is actually your

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Speaker 1: brain physically change in structure. Once those pathways or circuits

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Speaker 1: are emitted in your brain, you can't get rid of

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Speaker 1: them again. It's like riding a bicycle with repetition. It's

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Speaker 1: a programming issue. And they did a study on a

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Speaker 1: Chicago two thousand and fourteen when it showed that with

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Speaker 1: chronic bad pain that the pain shifts from the back

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Speaker 1: pain center of the brain to the emotional center in

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Speaker 1: about six or twel months. So you have the same

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Speaker 1: pain but a different driver and again, those are permanent

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Speaker 1: circuits and you can't get rid of them. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: how are you how are you, let's talk through the

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Speaker 1: direct your own care because you're how are you telling

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Speaker 1: people to reprogram? Basically, Well, that's how this whole process emerged.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I was in chronic pain for years. Nobody

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Speaker 1: could tell me what was going on. I lost all hope.

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Speaker 1: I was incredibly discouraged, of course, being a physician and

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Speaker 1: surge and I tried everything and everything to real about

430
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: my disposal. Nothing work. And of course one of the

431
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: biggest problems that people get into the doctors. Doctors tell

432
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: you what we can't say anything wrong, It must be psychological,

433
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: and that's not true. Your body is inflamed, and your

434
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: body is inflamed and on fire. That's a problem that

435
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: is not psychological. So there's a sequence of steps, with

436
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: the first step being what we call simple expressive writing.

437
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,959
Speaker 1: So remember, the mental pain is a bigger problem than

438
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: the physical pain because you can't escape your thoughts. There's

439
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: a simple exercise that has been documented in over eight thousand,

440
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: one thousand research papers to be a factor. Was called

441
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: expressive writing. Is if you're write down your thoughts and

442
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: you here, I'm up and you can't escape your thoughts,

443
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: but you can separate from them and so and so.

444
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: For some reason, it is an incredibly powerful tool. Use

445
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: the first step in my fifteen year journey and chronic

446
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: pain that actually started started to change things. It's the

447
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: only mandatory requirement of the entire healing processes is that

448
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: expressive writing. And it's not the solution, but it's the

449
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 1: starting point. Remember, the ways of chronic pain is you

450
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: create new circuits around the old circuits based on your plasticity.

451
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: Your plasticity is a process of awareness of separation to start,

452
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: and then reprogramming. And so with the writing, desigreation awareness

453
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: of negative thoughts or any thoughts. And now you're separated

454
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: with the paper on the table and that space is

455
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: connected with vision and feel, and then the reprogramming can

456
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 1: be all sort of do be mindfulness, I mean, right now,

457
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 1: just drop your shoulders for a second and just feel

458
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: where you're sitting. And so what you're doing you put

459
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: your brain on a different sensation. And so what you're

460
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: doing you learned tools are dropped down the body's chemical response.

461
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: So the expressivevting is always the first step, which by

462
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: the way also affects sleep. The second step is called

463
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: low active meditation. We just simply put your brain on

464
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: a different sensation. Um. The next one, of course is sleep,

465
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: which is its own topic but again extremely effective and

466
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: dropping out information and dropping down pain. But the other

467
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: one which has been really fascinating, and we learned this

468
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: at our workshops that we would do these three to

469
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: five day workshops in New York at the Omega Institute,

470
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: and probably a cent of people into pain for you

471
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: within those three or five days. Every time we cannot

472
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: understand what had happened, because it happened every time. It

473
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: turned out we're creating a major chemical shifted people's brains

474
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: and they're shifting back onto safe pathways as opposed to threat.

475
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: People are also talking to each other. We know social

476
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: connection is a big deal, but when the cardinal rules

477
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: of this workshop is is you could not discuss your

478
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: pain and not you could not discuss your medical here

479
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: or discuss your pain because where's your attention. So from

480
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: a neural plastic see standpoint, your brain is gonna develop

481
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: wherever you place this attention, your attentions on the pain,

482
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: on your health care, etcetera. That's where your brain is

483
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: going to develop. So it's not positive thinking, which is

484
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: a way suppressing negative thinking, but it is positive vision.

485
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: But the corollary to that is no complaining, no criticism,

486
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: now giving an ask for advice, now gossiping. Decide where

487
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: you want to put your nervous system, where you want

488
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: to put your attention, and just do it. So. One

489
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: of so almost as powerful as expressive writing, or I

490
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: think equally as powerful, has been this absolute rule that

491
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: you're in my office. I would say, look, when you

492
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: walk out of my office, you will never discuss your

493
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: pain or medical care with anybody ever again in this story. Okay, well,

494
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: I'm uh. This is very fascinating to be because I

495
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: have to thought processes. So with the writing, is that

496
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: the way that it gets you know, like if you

497
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: do a bunch of therapy, they say you have to

498
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: get it out of your body, right and so, and

499
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: these are the reasons that they say therapy works. Why,

500
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: Like support groups work because you're not um pushing the

501
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: feelings down, you're actually feeling them. You're either talking about

502
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: them or whatever it is. Um. I can see, however,

503
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: that if you continue to talk about the things over

504
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: and over and over on a loop. How it that's

505
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: the only thing you're focused on. So is that why

506
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: both the combination of both works for the reprogramming. Um,

507
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's hard to say. I mean that you

508
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: know people will for instance, will complain about the boss

509
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: or their spouse or whatever. So the people you know,

510
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: people bond on complaining, right, Yes, I called a pseudo

511
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: bond and again one of the worst prognostic factors for

512
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: card and pains. I should belonging to a card to

513
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: pain and support group and the problem is they complain

514
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: about their pain all the time. Remember the keyword is

515
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: you hoasticity. It wants to interbrain to change where you

516
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: wanted to go. And when you're complaining, et cetera. Why

517
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: that's where nervous this is going to develop. So it

518
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: turned out to be extraordinarily powerful just to I use

519
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: to some just be nice. And the other thing is

520
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: when you are complaining, it's called mirror neurals. You tend

521
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: to attract people to that are also complained because you

522
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: get this tremendous effect taking place in a positive way.

523
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: The other thing is I think maybe even a different

524
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: conversation which I would love to talk about, is that

525
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: we found out that we could do the writing relaxation

526
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: to sleep, we would come about anger and forgiveness in

527
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: a second. But what what happened is that the families

528
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: were the biggest triggers and then one of the biggest

529
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: obstacles of people healing. Because what happens anytime your anxious

530
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: are frustrated, your trigger. Your triggers are programmed in your

531
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: brain by your parents, which now play out in your

532
00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: new family. It's paradostical that human consciousness to deuiloped by

533
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: language and interaction. We have a tremendous need for social connection.

534
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: The closer the connection, the better, But the closer to

535
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: the connection, the deeper the triggers. And what happens in

536
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: families is that what disrupts families is actually a neurological trick.

537
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: And once you understand the trickery learned to de energize

538
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: these triggers, then you can live your life in a creative,

539
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: enjoyable way. But in chronic pain is particularly a problem

540
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: because people in chronic pain are trapped. They're angry and

541
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: gets who the targets are. And that's one reason that

542
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: motivates being tremendously to continue with this pain. Project, because um,

543
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: every couple triggers each other, no exceptions, and so by understanding,

544
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: by understanding the neurological nature of those triggers and how

545
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: powerful they are, then you can start working around those.

546
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: As you know, in an argument, you can never talk

547
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: to stuff out. You see the problems they've done. A

548
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: study shows when one person is anger and frustrated and triggered,

549
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: their pain goes up. And it's now psychological is called

550
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: mirror neurons, where if you're upset, the group people around

551
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: you will be upset, but also neurons that fire together,

552
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: wired together. In other words, pain causes anxoni in frustration,

553
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: but when you're anxious and frustrated for another reason, they're

554
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: just linked to the pain pathways. So they're showing a

555
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: very clear research that within a couple, if one person

556
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: starts complaining, the spouse will predictually have a hostile reaction

557
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: and guess what, the person in pain has Their pain

558
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: go up, but it doesn't stop. So we found out

559
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: the last two years of my practice that by creating

560
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: a use the word artificial structure around the family dynamics,

561
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: it was unbelievable how first of all things would calm down,

562
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: but the effect of chronic pain was dramatic. But conversely,

563
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: if we didn't address the family issues at some level,

564
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: everything else we did simply didn't work. So when the

565
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: person would come in with the chronic pain and they

566
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: would do the process the director on care, that's the DFC,

567
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: that's what you refer to you as this all the

568
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: things that we're talking about, the writing, the sleeping, all

569
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: of the other things. So when they would start that process,

570
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: would that heal their relationships in turn? A lot of

571
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: times as well, Yes, well, we put you a part

572
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: of the website. So what's happening. The book is back

573
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: in Control, a surgeon running about of chronic pain. Then

574
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: the website back in Control. Docong was the action plan.

575
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: So between the book and the websites about self self directed.

576
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: But we also put up a whole structure around the

577
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: family dynamics. So not a counselor this is not too

578
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: much time. But once we set this arch tray set

579
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: of roles and say look, just stop. If you're triggered,

580
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: do not engage with one of them. Also, commit to

581
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: making your house a safe house. O words. Create a

582
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: structure that allowed the house to I'm down to be peaceful,

583
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: which allows your nurses to come down and be peaceful.

584
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: So it's a very very self corrected process. That being said,

585
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: if we if we can get counselors from people to help,

586
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 1: that's much more desirable. Unfortunately, a lot of medicine, medical

587
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: insurances and pay for the resources we need to actually

588
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: solve the problem. But it's not that hard, right, Well,

589
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: I can only imagine I'm just thinking through this situation

590
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,959
Speaker 1: um of a family. But like when you when someone

591
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: comes into your office and you're like, oh, you're having

592
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: this chronic pain. Okay, Well I'm going to give you

593
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: this writing exercise and we're going to talk about the

594
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: amount of sleep that you get. I'm gonna talk about

595
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: your relationships and how you interact with them. I could

596
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: just imagine that some people would be like, are you serious,

597
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: Like this is what you're going to tell me as

598
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: a doctor. So were you getting a lot of those

599
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: reactions when you first started this kind of practice, Yeah, definitely,

600
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: I mean people, see I wasn't always Actually even more

601
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: in a disadvantage is I'm a big time surgeon, right

602
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: for coming to me for let's just fix that. So

603
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: first of all, I want to said look, this is

604
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: not curgical. They're incredibly disappointed in angering there was a

605
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: kingdomy for surgery. Right then they want a quick fix.

606
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: But guess what, this is actually much faster than going

607
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: through an operation. The number one factor that predicts a

608
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: successful outcome from chronic painon is wanting us to engage.

609
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: But whereas so that anger or in frustration you talked about,

610
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: people simply wouldn't do that. They would go they would

611
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: go to another surgeon, have the surgery done, often with

612
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: catastrophic outcomes. And obviously I'm not gonna say I told

613
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: you so, but it's very disheartening to watch people walk

614
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: right into a bus saw. It's also very disheartening to

615
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: me that medicine even offers operations that has about success rate. Right.

616
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: There's not responsibility. They're figuring this out. They should not.

617
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: The responsibility on the physicians, not the patients, to say, look,

618
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: this is not surgical. So I say, look, I see

619
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: like if it's let's pretend to my patient for a

620
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: second and say look here you are. I just see it.

621
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: I don't see anything. It's curtical. I'm going to ask

622
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: you to do some homework so I would give I

623
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: would give them my book. I would say, please look

624
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: at the website and we change it. Now. I just

625
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: released this this week, is called the doc Journey dot com,

626
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: which includes an app, which is a much more streamline

627
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: approach to starting the process. So I say, look, here's

628
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: the book. This is your homework. I do want you

629
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: to start to express the writing. You don't have to

630
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: believe one word that I said. In fact, embracing the

631
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: disbelieve is actually critical because I'm not in a positive thinking.

632
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: This is not about believing David. He has come what

633
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: the doc project does, by the way, which is to

634
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: direct your own care. That we're taking known, established, well

635
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: documented medical interventions and presented presenting them in an organized,

636
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: structured manner of the words. This this implement well, we

637
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: already know works. Everything we do is documented on hundreds

638
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: of research papers. But right now medicine ticket door in

639
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: the data. So I said, you don't have to believe

640
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: me to start engaging and improving practices or just go

641
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: to work, so that they're one factor if people don't

642
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: want to engage, or the angry and frustrated just what

643
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: they don't do. Well. Yeah, and I learned to say,

644
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: look here you go I can help you or not

645
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: if I try to convince people to get better, why

646
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: they're just getting angry, to get more reactive and more resistance.

647
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: It turned out that the more open I was to say, look,

648
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: here's some horrorcule. See back in a couple of weeks,

649
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: it was much more effective. It's so fascinating to me.

650
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: So we're talking about it in relation to back surgery, obviously,

651
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: because that is where you started. The books that you've

652
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: referenced twice. I mean, I'm sorry you have two books.

653
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: Back in Control was the first book. The new one

654
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: is do you Really Need Spine Surgery UM? And back

655
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: in Control dot com. You guys can find all of

656
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: these books. But I also want to talk about COVID

657
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: because I was able to speak to you a week ago,

658
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: or I guess was a week and a half ago

659
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: when I got a positive test and the things that

660
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: we're talking about right now in relation to needing surgery

661
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: and UM physically healing or healing your chronic pain by

662
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: dealing with a lot of your mental and emotional stuff.

663
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: You also sort of in put into practice with COVID treatment,

664
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 1: and I found that so fascinating. You have a new

665
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: UM new thing out called plan A. It's Thrive and Survive.

666
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: It's actually available on your website as well the back

667
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: and Control dot com. But it goes through all of

668
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: these practices. Um that to me when I first read it,

669
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: I was like, just I just wasn't what I was expecting.

670
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: You know, when you are sick, especially with something like COVID,

671
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: you think, okay, well what do I take? I'm sure

672
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: I need to sleep a lot, maybe I need to

673
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: drink a lot of water. Do I need to be

674
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: doing anything else? And a lot of it was the

675
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: same things that you're describing. The express of writing treating anxiety, um,

676
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: getting asleep as you said, but practicing for giveness was

677
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: one and I just thought these were really fascinating. So

678
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: when I was able to talk to you, we talked

679
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 1: a lot about the effects of anxiety physically on your body,

680
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: which I know anxiety is is so much more prevalent

681
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: than it used to be, or it's talked about a

682
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: lot more, but I don't feel like a lot of

683
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: people talk about the physical symptoms that come with that.

684
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: So can you kind of talk us through that? Well,

685
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: what happened. We did come up with a solution for

686
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: the COVID pandemic. By the way, So plan A is

687
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: a series of steps you can do to LORI in

688
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: flammatory markers. So if you get sick when you have

689
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: this was called Stardi kind storm or rises startic kind,

690
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: which are in flammatory proteins, your stabil stab of the

691
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: threshold that kills you. So that's plan A. It turns

692
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: out that all the interventions on the doc, so the

693
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: work group came together around chronic pain. It turns out

694
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: that the solution for COVID is the same solution for

695
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: chronic pain. You think multiple proven interventions and implement them

696
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: in an organized fashion. You can drop down your inflamatory markers.

697
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: It turns down it turns out that anxiety is an

698
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: inflammatory disorder. So parodoxically, one of the worst ways to

699
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: create anxiety is uncertainty, which right now we cannot live

700
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: in more uncertainty. And what happens the uncertainty is the threat.

701
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: The inflammatory inflammatory reaction is a response, and it is

702
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: a sensation generated by this inflammatory reaction is anxiety. No words,

703
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: Anxiety is the reaction to the threat, not the cause

704
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: of the threat. So an have uncertainty, big problem. So

705
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: anger cranks up inflammatory stidy kinds. Even more so, it

706
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: sounds psychological, no big deal, but guess what has a

707
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: direct physiological impact on your body. So if you are

708
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: anxious or obsessive, or there's lots of ways you can

709
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: manifest that when you actually get sick with the virus,

710
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: you'll have this increase inflamatory response. And what happens if

711
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: you cross this freshold than you're going to die. However,

712
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: I have to just emphasize that if you're generally healthy,

713
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: the chance of diving is actually quite low. The elephant

714
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: in the room, so to speak, is that the almost

715
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: every person that's died from COVID has risk factors. Right,

716
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: every one of those risk factors involves elevated inflammatory markers.

717
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 1: So I don't onset diabetes, ortensides, lung disease, Alzheimer's, all

718
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: those are inflammatory disorders. And anxiety, bipolar, depression, schizophrenia are

719
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: all inflammatory disorders. They're all the same thing. So what

720
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: you're doing with the steps on this thriv and surviving

721
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: and I wrote it Thrive and survives in the Survive

722
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: and Thrive, is that the data shows very clearly as

723
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: you train your body to thrive, is that your chances

724
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: of living longer going dramatically. So people that thrive live

725
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: on the average of seven years longer. You have half

726
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: the instance of heart disease, blood pressure problems, and diabetes.

727
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: And so as you use these tools salary in flaboratory markers,

728
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: your quality of life goes up, your length of life

729
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: goes up, your health goes up. And so they're very

730
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: concrete staffs. For instance, an anti inflammatory diet don't even

731
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: you don't even have to lose the weight to go

732
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: to an anti inflammatory diet. Again, drops your side of

733
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: clients right down. Your risk is lower. Is it Is

734
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: it true that inflammation is the cause of most disease,

735
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: even cancers? Yes, yeah, um yeah, that's where Actually this

736
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: work group is going in interesting and direction because I

737
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: didn't know this. I may have learned more than six months,

738
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: and I've learned in thirty years. I mean, unbelievable how

739
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: this commons beat of inflammation runs through the human body.

740
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: That makes sense, right, I mean, if you if you're

741
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: under again. See, humans have a problem that call the

742
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: cursive consciousness, is that we can't escape our thoughts. So

743
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: we all have a sustained threat. And people that are

744
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: more with a very chaotic abuse of childhood, have less

745
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: equipment to deal with life and not as resilient, so

746
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: they don't cope with stress as well. So let's starting

747
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: they're starting out in life and theeed people that have

748
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: abus childhood have much higher rates of suicide, depression, obesity,

749
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: diabetes than the average population by a lot. It's not subtle.

750
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: So that's been well documented. So this ongoing. So if

751
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: somebody comes from a very nurturing, peaceful childhood, I don't

752
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: want to use the word of resilience because that's not

753
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: quite the right word, but you have a higher capacity

754
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: to handle life stresses if you are trained that life

755
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: is basically safe versus life is basically dangerous. So the

756
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 1: metaphor like to use is that if your nervous system

757
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: would be like a Ford Pinto versus the Ferrari. Those

758
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: are two different nervous systems. And when the Pinto so

759
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: the ferrari, by the way, you can take more stress.

760
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: But again when that threshold has reached, the responses the same. So,

761
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: for instance, a person who has a Ferrario of the

762
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: nervous system might be a CEO of a company, but

763
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: when here she breaks, guess what the reaction is the

764
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: same if somebody raised from an abusive childhood is yield

765
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: that way by a clerk, and so the stress response

766
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: is the same either way. It's just if you come

767
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: from a chaotic, abusive childhood where you weren't trained to

768
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: feel safe, because guess what, it wasn't safe that your

769
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 1: activities higher, but the affection of your physical health are profound.

770
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: I just find it so fascinating because I do think

771
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: it's sort of like how you described what happened with

772
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: you where you were just suppressing, suppressing, suppressing for so long,

773
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,959
Speaker 1: and I find that to be a very common theme

774
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: in our society, especially amongst men, it seems, I think,

775
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: because as men are trained like you can't have these feelings,

776
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: like you can't have these emotions you know, from an

777
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: early age. And um, I'm just curious, like how would

778
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: you say, what would you say to some one who

779
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: you know might just not even be aware of the

780
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: amount of stress, Like how do we get in touch

781
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: with the amount of stress that we are carrying? Because

782
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,919
Speaker 1: like in your book you describe things like IBS even

783
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: being a symptom of inflammation and stress and anxiety in

784
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: your body, And I think so many people just like

785
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: take a pill for that. You know, right well, remember this,

786
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: I mean right now, I mean in all ages fifteen,

787
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: twenty thirties, May I just say my generation and m

788
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: sixties seven where it was in the late thirties of

789
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: forties people who would quote have a nervous breakdown. And

790
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 1: right now we have this epidemic of keen anxiety, millennial anxiety,

791
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: and it's horrible. Now you can talk of a lot

792
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: of the reasons for that. We have more physical comforts

793
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 1: than we've ever had, and probably these expectations are probably

794
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 1: the biggest threat that we have. We have body image disorders.

795
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 1: We also have modern marketing telling us who we should be.

796
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: And so they're telling us there's something wrong with us

797
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: because we don't look or act a certain way. But

798
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: then they can sell your solutions to fix it. So

799
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: there's this in this anxiety. Then we don't play together,

800
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: no words. In other words, we have electronic screens. But

801
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: we know the human brain develops through play. In play

802
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: is to the brain during the day, as sleep as

803
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: as dreams are at night to the brain. In other words,

804
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: you need play as an organizing principle. There's three dimensional

805
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 1: there's body language involved. But normal human development depends on play.

806
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: And guess what we're locking classrooms were being given a

807
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: lot of material to learn without the interact with other

808
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: human beings. So again, I don't only get to know

809
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: the causitive anxiety, but it's there. But again, when you

810
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: are not relaxing, interacting and regenerated, again, you're in constant threat.

811
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: Your body is on fire. And we know colitus is

812
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: through the ceiling, aut immune disorders through the ceiling. And teenagers,

813
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: the instance of chronic pain has gone up at least

814
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 1: in ten years, eight times a hundred set. So again

815
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 1: I went. I gave a lecture to the high school

816
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: in Seattle a few years ago. Now the fire students,

817
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: five of them, I'm sorry, three hundred of them were

818
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: on chrome medications that the school knows how to give

819
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: them every day. Yea, So the thing is remember in

820
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 1: that promise. How about the words stress management? And would

821
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: you agree that the word stress is usually construed as

822
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: a psychological construct out of curstainment. Okay, it's not. It's

823
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: your bodies, it's your total bodies reaction to the environment.

824
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 1: And the stress that is the most stressful is the

825
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: stress that you can't control. Remember, there's the threat and

826
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: there's their stress response, and so you can't control most

827
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: of the things in your environment that are stressful because

828
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: again the most stressful are the stressful ones to electric

829
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: can control. But what you can do, you can learn

830
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: the tools and strategy to minimize that stress. Ress dropped

831
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: down the body's chemistry, remembering star just a sensation generated

832
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 1: by your elevated stress chemicals. The way you're decreasing, sorry,

833
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: you simply decreases stress chemicals and is the unconscious brain

834
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: process is about twenty million pers of information per second

835
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: compared to forty four zero open. The conscious brain is

836
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 1: twenty million and forty ratio. You can't control it, and

837
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 1: so you learned to process it and lower this stress

838
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: chemical response. That's how you thrive. Mm hmm, I have

839
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 1: my brain is going in right now because I find

840
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: this so fastening. Just our body's reaction. It's sort of

841
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: what you're saying to about UM stressing psychological I was

842
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: just thinking, um, if you've ever done any sort of

843
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: meditation practices, the first thing that you always do is

844
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,240
Speaker 1: relax your shoulders. You do some deep breathing, and most

845
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: of the time I know for me, I do not

846
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: realize how clenched up my body is is, you know,

847
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: in response to maybe how I'm going about my day

848
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: and the stress that I'm dealing with, or even the anxiety.

849
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: And so it's just interesting to think that we're just

850
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: a little bit out of touch with our body's response

851
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: to all of these things. Well, what I find, you know,

852
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: I'm working with the ductor Stephen port Is, who has

853
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: not become a friend of mine with his poly vegal theory,

854
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: and what I just didn't realize that, For instance, when

855
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: you do a deep breathing exercise, your slow exercise, slow breathing, um,

856
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 1: what you're doing, you're directly stimulating the parasympathetic nervous system

857
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: through the veggest nerve that actually flat out drops down

858
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: the inflamatory markers. And that's one of those socitions from

859
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 1: the covert crisis. You have the sympathetic responsive inflavatory markers,

860
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 1: but the parasympathetic nervous system, where the biggest nerve actually

861
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: flat out is anti inflammatory. So resist deep breathing and

862
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: slow breathing recruits the biggest nerve. Humming vibration in the

863
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 1: back of your throat stimilize the biggest nerve if you

864
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: breathe through your nose increases the levels of oxytosa by

865
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: and what happened and actually Tellsen is strongly in templeamentory

866
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: as well as the social bonding molecule. And we always

867
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 1: think in ax tells in terms of lactation and pregnancy

868
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: is one of the oldest molecules in the body. And

869
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: Dr Portner's wife, Sue Carter is one of the international

870
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: experts in a chosen and actually Tellsen, maybe the hormone

871
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: we're looking for is why social connection is so effective

872
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: for chronic pain. And by the way, as far as

873
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 1: going back to the epidemic of anxiety, of Americans are

874
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: socially isolated, which creates the same symptoms as chronic pain.

875
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: And the highest level social isolation, by the way, are

876
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 1: people in their twenties. Yep, there's a big signal studies

877
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: that in two thousand eighteen that did a huge survey

878
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: of twenty people and percent of Americans and every city, county,

879
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: small town, village were socially isolated. But the highest problem

880
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 1: was that kids, I'm sorry, people in their twenties. They

881
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 1: felt that they felt that social isolation had the same

882
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: effect on your health as smoking about fifteen cigarettes per day. Wow. Really,

883
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: I can't get over the twenties some things. What are

884
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: they doing? Why are they so isolated? Well, I don't know.

885
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: I think the electronics permitted difference. I think that they're

886
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: so much demanded as far as homework and accomplishments, and

887
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: that I'm noticing. Also, first of all, the other thing.

888
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: Let me just step back for a second. So I

889
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: love working with people in their teens and twenties and

890
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: thirties because their brains are very neuro plastic. It changes quickly.

891
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: I can only tell you that when someone there stands

892
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: that anxiety is necessary, is powerful, You're not gonna not

893
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 1: going to control, but you learn how to work with that.

894
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: This came out. Your brain physically changes structure, but your

895
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: brains are so much more neural plastic and change so

896
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: much work quickly at that age. So we just have

897
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: studying results very very quickly, and people in that age

898
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: group is wonderful. Well, it's interesting as we kind of

899
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: we got off on a tangent of anxiety because I'm

900
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,399
Speaker 1: fascinated by this too. But um, we were talking about

901
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: the COVID stuff, and earlier you mentioned to me in

902
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: the treatment. For even the patients and I see you,

903
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: one of the main things that was probably inhibiting their

904
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: healing was the isolation. And I said to you that

905
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: during the part where I had COVID, that was the

906
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: hardest part for me, being separate from everyone, and even

907
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: people's reaction to you when you have COVID, it's kind

908
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: of like, oh god, oh gosh. You know that nobody

909
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: wants to be around it right now, I understand, but um,

910
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: that was so hard. The physical part was so much

911
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: easier to get over for me than the emotional aspect

912
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 1: of just being isolated. So that's so, what do you

913
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 1: tell um the listeners what you told me about that

914
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: that I see you patients and your recommendations. Well, I mean,

915
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: part of the poem is is that you the mask

916
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: also solid. Dutr part disappoints said, you can't see most

917
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,720
Speaker 1: people's facial expression and they're already uses it is called corregulation.

918
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: In other words, if I meet you, I'm assuming you're

919
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: a nice person. So my para sympathetic nervous system takes

920
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: in the gear to say things are safe. Is how

921
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: mammals interact with each other where reptiles don't, and so

922
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: facial expression causes corregulation, but carbonation the mask is a

923
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 1: big problem. Then in the I See You, people are isolated.

924
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: And what I don't understand, this is part of our

925
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: Plan B solution, is that look, okay, you need human

926
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:35,439
Speaker 1: contact to stumulate the para sympathy nervous system isolate people

927
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: in the I See You. So we're giving cues of

928
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: the threat, not safety. But if you're if you're in

929
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: the I c U, you're already at zero risk of

930
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: getting the virus because you already have it. You're almost

931
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: at zero risk for shading it. Other Ways, you get

932
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: a couple of negative cultures in the I s U.

933
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: Most of the times, by the time people are sick

934
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: at the point of going to I See You, they're

935
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,399
Speaker 1: ques shading the virus and not contagious anymore. So why

936
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: are we not lowing families to see patients in the

937
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: I See You? Because it's it's not just for the

938
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: families social situation, but also it's a healing factor again

939
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: not psychological. You're directly stimulating the biggest nerve with social contact.

940
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,280
Speaker 1: It's a major healing factor. I buy into that because

941
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I told you I was isolated, and then

942
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 1: we found out my boyfriend had it, and so we

943
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: were able to just be around each other and now

944
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 1: we're both fine. Like it helped so much. I mean,

945
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure there was a lot of other factors, but

946
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: it did the healing process seemed like for us, it

947
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: happened pretty quickly, and I was doing a lot of

948
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: your I did the expressive writing, I've been meditating, and

949
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: all of those things I do believe physically helped me

950
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: as well, which was just super fascinating to me. Absolutely no,

951
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: I mean, the human connection is a major factory and healing. Also.

952
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: Dr Party's point out how we we're seeing more violence

953
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: both domestically in the streets. Again, when you don't coregulate,

954
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: other words, you not interact with other people and calming

955
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: down supers our nervous system, then people get violent. They

956
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: go and see what happens when you go into this

957
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: defensive fight or flight mode. Then the blood supply to

958
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 1: the frontal lobe of your brain, which is the thinking centers,

959
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: actually goes offline. You don't even have unity, you can't

960
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: think properly because the blood supply to that party brain

961
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: is actually shut down. Wow, so you're just reacting correct

962
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: disregulated nervous system and the violence systemf is predictable. Gosh, well,

963
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: I am so happy to get this conversation. UM. I

964
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: definitely think I've bought into just the emotional connection between

965
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 1: our body's responses to life and and just what's happening inside.

966
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: But I'm so happy that it's coming from a doctor

967
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 1: and a surgeon who used to operate or used to

968
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: be known for operations, and now you're just completely changing

969
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: the way that that has written. And I just love that.

970
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: So the books that week that people can go find

971
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: details about your journey and just kind of what you

972
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: suggest maybe if you're in chronic pain or dealing with

973
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 1: back surgery issues would be back in control? Do you

974
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: really need spine surgery or the two? Um? And then

975
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: where else can people find you? Well, I just called

976
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: the doc Journey on the then d oc journey dot com.

977
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,919
Speaker 1: There's a series of emails, webinars, question and answer period,

978
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: but also an abb that takes you to Much is

979
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: designed to create these safety experiences based on our workshops, awareness, whole,

980
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: forgiveness and play and so it's been released last week.

981
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: We're excited about it. It's a much more screenline way

982
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: of getting through the evolutionary of steps that you need

983
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 1: called the doc journey dot com. And again I think

984
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm so excited about and that's why I quit my

985
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: practice is that it is so it's disturbingly simple to react.

986
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: How much you can do for yourself is very self directive.

987
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: And that's why we think from a public health standpoint

988
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: that we've got to get this diagnosis of anxiety correct

989
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: of not being psychological but a response to a threat,

990
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: because it really just effectually we treat each other both

991
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: personally as a family in society. So that's my biggest

992
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: semester said, look, you've got to get this diagnosis right.

993
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: You've got to get to the root cause of disease

994
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: otherwise we're going to continue to become more and more sick.

995
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,439
Speaker 1: And where can people find the plan A the Thrive

996
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: and Survived covid? Is that on the back and Control

997
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 1: dot com or on doc journey dot com. Yeah, some

998
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: of the website. So the website now is Dr David Hanscomb.

999
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: The word we change, so okay, the website is Dr

1000
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: David Hascom and you can access everything including the Apple

1001
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: on the website David Hascom and we are switching switching

1002
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: that over this week. That's why it's a little bit

1003
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: of a little different website. But they can access the planning.

1004
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: They can also access Plan B here shortly, and we

1005
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: think the pandemic is solvable right now as existing resources

1006
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: which plan be um. But yeah, there's surely things you

1007
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: can do to minimize your chances of mortality, you know,

1008
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: by just taking care of taking care of your own

1009
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: inflammatory markers. Yes, that was a fascinating part of that

1010
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: whole The whole thing to me is just inflammation, and

1011
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: I keep hearing that that's the root cause of all disease,

1012
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: and so being able to look at ways to actually

1013
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: target the things that are causing the inflammation in your

1014
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: body is just extremely helpful. So yeah, so I'm excited

1015
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: to be able to talk to you and sure some

1016
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: of these ideas. Obviously, I quit my practice. I felt

1017
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: so strongly about this. It's just hard to me to

1018
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: watch that we people go to pain free, you know,

1019
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: the people can injure so quickly. Um, So the difference

1020
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: became just too much for me. It's why I quit. Yes, well,

1021
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: Dr Hanskin, thank you so much for being here, and

1022
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: you guys go check out all of the websites that

1023
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: we mentioned. I'm also going to put those in the

1024
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: bio of in the description of this podcast, so you

1025
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: guys can just click through to find all of Dr

1026
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 1: Hanscom's books, all of these websites. Thank you again so

1027
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: much for being here, and thank you guys for listening.