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Speaker 1: Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which

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Speaker 2: When you hear all the litany of reasons remind you

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Speaker 2: of why you're not worthy? Right, we notice it, we

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Speaker 2: pull our attention away. Doesn't mean that I'm going to

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Speaker 2: feel worthy immediately does mean though, that I can show

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Speaker 2: up and begin to show up in actions of worthiness.

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Speaker 2: How might someone who is worthy treat themselves generally or.

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Speaker 3: In this moment?

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Speaker 2: If we weaken that belief network by pulling our attention

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Speaker 2: away every time it fires, and if we're now strengthening

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Speaker 2: a new belief network, now we have the beginnings of

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Speaker 2: a new network that will over time take over where

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Speaker 2: that old network existed.

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Speaker 4: The number one health and wellness podcast.

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Speaker 1: Jay Sheety Jay sheety Hey, everyone, Welcome back to On Purpose,

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Speaker 1: the place that you come back to every single week

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Speaker 1: to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so happy

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Speaker 1: that you chose to tune in today because today's episode

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Speaker 1: is going to be one that I know each and

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Speaker 1: every one of you can deeply relate to. If you've

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Speaker 1: been talking recently with your friends about trauma bonds, this

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Speaker 1: episode is for you. If you've been struggling with the

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Speaker 1: relationship in your life, romantic or otherwise, this episode is

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Speaker 1: for you. And if you're someone who's just been trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to navigate boundaries, how to navigate

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Speaker 1: all the different roles you play in a relationship, the

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Speaker 1: challenges that come from stress responses we've developed early on

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Speaker 1: in our childhood, this episode is for you. I'm speaking

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Speaker 1: about a guest who's been on once before. You absolutely

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Speaker 1: loved our conversation. The One and Only Doctor Nicole Leaperra,

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Speaker 1: a holistic psychologist trained at Cornell University. The New School

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Speaker 1: for Social Research and the Philadelphia School of Psychoanalysis. Nicole

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Speaker 1: is the founder of the global Community Healing Membership Self

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Speaker 1: Healers Circle, and the author of the number one New

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Speaker 1: York Times bestseller How to Do the Work, How to

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Speaker 1: Meet Yourself, and today we're discussing her latest book, How

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Speaker 1: to Be the Love You Seek, Break cycles, find peace,

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Speaker 1: and Heal your Relationships. If you don't have this book already,

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Speaker 1: I want you to go and order it right now.

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Speaker 1: We're diving in. Please welcome to the show, doctor Nicole.

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Speaker 4: Nicole. It's great to have you.

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Speaker 3: Back and such an honor.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming back onto the show.

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Speaker 1: Like we were saying, we were together like three years ago,

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Speaker 1: and so much has happened. But what I've loved is

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Speaker 1: to see your influence, your impact, and your insights continue

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Speaker 1: to grow and take mainstream attention. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: so deserving and so worthy the work that you're doing.

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Speaker 1: And I'm so happy that we get to reconnect and

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Speaker 1: do this again.

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Speaker 4: So thank you.

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Speaker 3: Of course, I'm honored to be here.

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Speaker 2: And I when you pointed out that it has been

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Speaker 2: three years, I mean my head almost popped off. I mean,

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Speaker 2: talk about a lot, a lot happening, a lot of possibility.

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Speaker 2: I'm just again so honored to connect with you in

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Speaker 2: your community.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I know this is going to help the community.

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Speaker 1: So let's dive straight in. You start very emphatically in

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Speaker 1: the book and the title says you create change. And

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Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people that hear that,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of us feel we don't have

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Speaker 1: the power to change things. We don't feel we have

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Speaker 1: the ability to change things. We feel that our life

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Speaker 1: is a constant bombardment of things happening to us, of

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Speaker 1: things that other people do towards us. And you very

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Speaker 1: boldly state you create change. I know so many people

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Speaker 1: who feel like they don't know how to change, they

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Speaker 1: can't change, they're stuck. What makes you so certain and

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Speaker 1: conscious that you can create change?

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Speaker 2: I think too nowhere is this the reality of being

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Speaker 2: stuck so prevalent, but in our relationships, I think, and

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Speaker 2: that's really what inspired this new work is to understand

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Speaker 2: why is it? Because what I would hear after writing

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Speaker 2: my first book, how to do the work for many

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Speaker 2: individuals on the healing journey. Oh, I'm making traction. I'm

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Speaker 2: starting to feel good in my life. And I'm feeling

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Speaker 2: either ready to be in a relationship or I'm in

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Speaker 2: a relationship and it's in my relationship where I'm really stuck.

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Speaker 2: And similar to what I talked about in my first book,

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Speaker 2: so much of how we relate is governed by our

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Speaker 2: subconscious mind, meaning outside of our awareness. So to answer

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Speaker 2: your question really simply, I think why we don't believe

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Speaker 2: we can create change is because of everything that's happening

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Speaker 2: beneath the iceberg, if you will, or in our subconscious

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Speaker 2: mind within our relationships. Everything from beliefs about ourself as

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Speaker 2: you even shared in the intro roles and identities that

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Speaker 2: we've learned to play deep wounding, which contain these moments

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Speaker 2: of nervous system dysregulation and reactivity, and ultimately when we

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Speaker 2: have these chain of events, these meanings interpretations that our

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Speaker 2: subconscious mind is making to the happenings or not happenings

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Speaker 2: in our relationship, when that is connected then to physiological

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Speaker 2: shifts in my body, those nervous system moments of dysregulation,

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Speaker 2: and then when we tune in typically is either mid

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Speaker 2: reaction or somewhere shamefully post reaction, and until we've paid

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Speaker 2: conscious attention or simply awareness to all of the different

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Speaker 2: parts of the story that contribute it to what feels like.

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Speaker 3: An instinctive reaction. I'm compelled to do this thing.

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Speaker 2: I can't stop up behaving in this way, or the

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Speaker 2: world continues to create the same struggles, the same feelings,

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Speaker 2: the same cycles, and I think it then becomes really

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Speaker 2: natural that we don't feel like we have choice. And

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Speaker 2: I think how I convince us all that we do

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Speaker 2: have choice is as we become aware of what's going

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Speaker 2: on beneath the surface, as we become aware of the

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Speaker 2: beliefs and the physiology that is driving those changes, we

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Speaker 2: can begin to create just a little bit of space.

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Speaker 2: Because I mean, I could sit up here and explain

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Speaker 2: to many listeners why we don't feel in choice. Until

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Speaker 2: we embody the practice of being able to pause before

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Speaker 2: that habitual reaction, it's going to be really hard for

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Speaker 2: me to convince us all that we can create change.

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Speaker 2: But when we have the tools to view our internal

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Speaker 2: world in a new way, including our body and all

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Speaker 2: of the stress reaction that's housed in it, then I

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Speaker 2: think we do have that empowered shift where I can

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Speaker 2: possibly convince you that there is choice change possible in

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Speaker 2: your future.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I hear a lot from our

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Speaker 1: community and our audience when I'm talking to people is jay,

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Speaker 1: I'm just surrounded by toxic family members. I'm trying to change,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to be better, but there's someone in my

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Speaker 1: family who'll always say something at that dinner that triggers me.

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Speaker 1: There'll be someone who at the holiday party will say

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Speaker 1: something to me that will trigger me. There'll be someone

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Speaker 1: that I'm living with in the house every day who

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Speaker 1: sees me meditate, who sees me trying to work out,

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Speaker 1: but as something condescending to say, how do I navigate

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Speaker 1: this toxic person that I can't just distance myself from.

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Speaker 1: I can't run away from them. They're in my life.

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Speaker 1: What do I do?

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Speaker 2: And I think an empowering shift we can make is

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Speaker 2: to even just first ask ourselves that question, what can

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Speaker 2: we do? Because I think it's really natural to instinctively say, well,

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't have to do anything. If this toxic person

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Speaker 2: could be more supportive of this positive habit, or if

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Speaker 2: this person could be a little less whatever you know

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Speaker 2: they're bringing to the table, I.

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Speaker 3: Could then feel different.

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Speaker 2: I think the shift of empowerment happens when we say,

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Speaker 2: let's assume and even expect that this person doesn't change

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Speaker 2: that these comments continue the lack of support, whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: and especially when it's within our family. I like to

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Speaker 2: offer a bit of insight. I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: times we do struggle and will continue to struggle, especially

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Speaker 2: within our family. With these long term relationships, there have

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Speaker 2: been expectations that have been validated over time, and so

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Speaker 2: we really do fall into these kind of learned dynamics.

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Speaker 2: So as we begin even to shift into something positive

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Speaker 2: for ourselves for the relationship, it's going to challenge the

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Speaker 2: dynamics of the system because what the person on the

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Speaker 2: other end will be experiencing is something new. And I'm

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Speaker 2: very intentionally using that word because while we all can create,

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Speaker 2: I mean I just made a case for all of

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Speaker 2: the change that we can create at any time in

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Speaker 2: our life.

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Speaker 3: Our nervous system.

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Speaker 2: Prefers the habitual, and even within the roles in our relationships,

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Speaker 2: people have learned to predict that we show up in

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Speaker 2: predictable ways, and if and when we don't, it actually

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Speaker 2: activates now a threat response based on this new experience

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Speaker 2: that someone else is having of us now I went

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Speaker 2: into that description, of course, because sometimes with that awareness,

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Speaker 2: we can engage with the person sharing that comment with us.

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Speaker 2: With the person not supporting us in that way, differently,

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Speaker 2: we can have a bit of compassion, maybe understanding where

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Speaker 2: they're coming from.

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Speaker 3: We might even.

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Speaker 2: Shift our expectation of that person giving us the support

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Speaker 2: or sharing with us something positive in terms of what

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Speaker 2: it is that we're doing. If we give up that expectation,

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of us can learn to navigate

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Speaker 2: those relationships because what causes our suffering, in my opinion,

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Speaker 2: is the unmet expectation. But then, of course I want

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Speaker 2: to just touch quickly on the reality sometimes of boundary changes,

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Speaker 2: of new limits, maybe conversations topics that we don't bring

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Speaker 2: to this relationship. If we aren't going to get the

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Speaker 2: support or the feedback that we need, we can actually

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Speaker 2: modify ultimately what it is that we do or how

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Speaker 2: it is that we engage with the person.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to someone I was coaching, and they

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Speaker 1: were talking about a particular trait that they saw in

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Speaker 1: their partner, and I said, have you seen this trait before?

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Speaker 1: And they said yes, And I said how many times

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Speaker 1: have you seen it? And they thought about it for

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Speaker 1: a second, and they said every year we've been together.

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Speaker 1: And I said, how long have you been together? And

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Speaker 1: they said thirty years. And it was really interesting because

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Speaker 1: you addressed this at the start of the book, this

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Speaker 1: idea that you can't A lot of books have told

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Speaker 1: us in the past that if we change our behavior,

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Speaker 1: it will somehow change the behavior of the other person,

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Speaker 1: That if you can mold and be malleable and manipulate

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Speaker 1: your own words, thoughts, and actions, that somehow it will

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Speaker 1: create a behavioral response from someone else. But I think

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Speaker 1: what you're saying right now as well is that actually,

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Speaker 1: even if we change your behavior, our expectation that that

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Speaker 1: is somehow going to inspire this other individual to do

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Speaker 1: a U turn is actually kind of like a fool's

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Speaker 1: errand like it doesn't seem to be something that's going

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Speaker 1: to show. And I think that's kind of a hard

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Speaker 1: reality to accept. We almost feel that we can get

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Speaker 1: people to change and they will change for me and

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Speaker 1: I am important enough, if they cared enough, they would change.

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Speaker 1: So how do we let go of that expectation? How

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Speaker 1: do we build a process and a system to actually

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Speaker 1: recognize my expectation with this individual needs to shift because

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Speaker 1: I keep seeing the same pattern day after day, month

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Speaker 1: after month, or year after year, but I keep fooling

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Speaker 1: myself that this will be the year they change, this

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Speaker 1: will be the month that it all changes for me.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of times we set that expectation

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Speaker 2: or have that kind of fantasy for the future out

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Speaker 2: of a protection against the pain and suffering that being

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Speaker 2: in the alternate reality of what is happening, the fact

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Speaker 2: that this is a pattern that is lasted thirty plus years.

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Speaker 2: Just to use your client as an example, that would

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Speaker 2: cause a lot of grief, a reckoning, almost maybe even

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Speaker 2: a new choice point where this person would be at

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Speaker 2: a crossroads. Either I remove this expectation and then modify

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Speaker 2: in terms of what this relationship is or means to me,

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Speaker 2: or maybe I determine I can't do that, and now

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Speaker 2: I might need to shift or remove myself from the relationship.

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Speaker 2: And this kind of thinking, which I'm gonna call right

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Speaker 2: now immature thinking, but not as a kind of derogatory label,

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Speaker 2: more as a developmental stage. And I think it's really

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Speaker 2: emblematic of what happens in childhood for a lot of us.

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Speaker 2: A lot of us in childhood spend a lot of

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Speaker 2: time when we didn't have the physically present or the

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Speaker 2: emotionally attuned character that we need it in this kind

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Speaker 2: of fantasy world, because the pain of being rejected, of

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Speaker 2: not feeling the support and the attunement that we need

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Speaker 2: is so great, and I think a lot of us

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Speaker 2: continue that as a protective pattern into adulthood. With this

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Speaker 2: idea right that I can just imagine, create this future

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Speaker 2: in my mind that keeps me separate from the reality

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Speaker 2: of my present moment. I think a lot of times

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Speaker 2: when we hang those expectations on our partner, right, giving

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Speaker 2: them again all of our power, all of our control,

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Speaker 2: even for very well intentioned reasons. Sometimes we want to

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Speaker 2: support them, We might want to see them create change that.

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Speaker 3: We know and they know that they need in their lives.

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Speaker 2: But again, when we are putting all of our energy

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Speaker 2: on someone else in that way, not only do we

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Speaker 2: not have access to it for ourselves, it's felt by

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Speaker 2: the other person, even if it's not directly felt, it's

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Speaker 2: indirectly felt as a pressure. So again, I want to normalize.

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Speaker 2: I think the tendency to fantasize, to wish even the

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Speaker 2: very well intentioned actions that we can take sometimes seeming

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Speaker 2: in support of someone else, though I just acknowledge the

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Speaker 2: reality of the many of us who have created very

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Speaker 2: difficult change in our life. It takes a daily commitment

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Speaker 2: of having new experiences that will challenge our nervous system

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Speaker 2: and learning how to create change anyway. So with that said,

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Speaker 2: having this idea that someone else can or will change

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Speaker 2: for us is putting an unrealistic expectation on that person,

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Speaker 2: because the only person that can create change is us

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Speaker 2: and our commitment and are showing up day in, day

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Speaker 2: out in action ultimately of that change.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the other ways that our childhood

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Speaker 1: impacts our current, present and future selves. Because I think

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Speaker 1: obviously in society and culture we are talking about this

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Speaker 1: idea of what we went through as kids shows up

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Speaker 1: in who we are now, but I think we have

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Speaker 1: quite a rudimentary basic understanding of how that actually shows up,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if we're always as conscious. I

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Speaker 1: found the more I've dealt into this, the more subtle

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Speaker 1: my understanding became of myself. So, for example, at one

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Speaker 1: point I realized that one of my caregivers had always

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Speaker 1: given me a lot of love, but they also made

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Speaker 1: me feel guilty when I didn't reciprocate that love, and

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Speaker 1: I found myself replicating that in loving relationships as such

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Speaker 1: a subtle, hidden thing where I would overly give love

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Speaker 1: but then express words or behaviors that would make the

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Speaker 1: other person feel guilty if I didn't feel like they

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Speaker 1: lived up to my version of it. And it took

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Speaker 1: me a while to really recognize that, to heal that,

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Speaker 1: to remove that from my vocabulary and my behavior. But

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Speaker 1: knowing that it wasn't something that was bad about me

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Speaker 1: or that I'd created or that I could blame and

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Speaker 1: recognize was so powerful. But what are the ways in

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Speaker 1: which our early childhood experiences are affecting our current relationships

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Speaker 1: and of course future relationships.

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Speaker 2: I think this conversation into the subtlety of it is

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Speaker 2: so foundationally important because I know that there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of us, especially you know, as we kind of progress

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Speaker 2: through adulthood, that has this idea that, well, childhood is

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Speaker 2: decades ago. It's actually a space that I don't want

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Speaker 2: to go back to. Right I'm an adult now and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't impact me because I do think we look

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Speaker 2: for the kind of more obvious signs, but there are

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Speaker 2: so many kind of ways in which from what we

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Speaker 2: were made in childhood to directly or indirectly think about

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Speaker 2: ourselves ultimately becomes those deep root of beliefs that we

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Speaker 2: carry and continue to think about ourselves into adulthood. In

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Speaker 2: terms of our emotions, the way in which we were

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Speaker 2: allowed to express our emotions, the support we had in

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Speaker 2: which navigating our emotions, simply the level of attunement that

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Speaker 2: our caregivers gave us will directly impact our current relationship

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Speaker 2: in adulthood with our emotions and our ability to be

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Speaker 2: responsively present to them as opposed to reactive. And the

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Speaker 2: way those identities that you talked about earlier, the way

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Speaker 2: in which we've learned in childhood to connect or relate,

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Speaker 2: which for a lot of us meant shoving down parts

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Speaker 2: of ourselves expression right, not showing certain aspects of our thoughts,

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Speaker 2: of our emotions, of our just general self, and or

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Speaker 2: amplifying other aspects. So really, simply how at one time

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Speaker 2: we had to connect with or relate to another individual

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Speaker 2: ultimately becomes those same roles that we play in our

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Speaker 2: current relationship. So when we begin to truly understand not

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Speaker 2: only the individual impact, do I know myself? Do I

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Speaker 2: know how to navigate my emotions? Do I know how

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Speaker 2: to give and receive support in a relationship to then relationally?

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Speaker 2: Who am I so much as a remnant or an

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Speaker 2: artifact in my opinion of who we once had to be,

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Speaker 2: Which is why we have an epidemic in a sense

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Speaker 2: of adults who don't know themselves, who don't have the

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Speaker 2: emotional resilience that they need to remain responsive to their emotions,

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Speaker 2: and who are showing up in all of these you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of masks, playing all of these roles, and our

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Speaker 2: feeling deep unfulfilled, even those of us that are actively

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Speaker 2: in relationships.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like there's this contention between a lot

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Speaker 1: of us in relationships are fighting for who we were,

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Speaker 1: Like there's a defense to this is how I've been raised,

359
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Speaker 1: this is what I think is right, this is what

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Speaker 1: I've been told, these are my beliefs. And then there's

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Speaker 1: another part of us that's trying to then cater to

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Speaker 1: and sway towards Oh no, but I know I need

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Speaker 1: to take on some of yours as well, And that

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Speaker 1: kind of often creates a bit of conflict on an

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Speaker 1: identity level, because we're wondering, well, what parts of myself

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Speaker 1: do I leave behind, But then am I trading for

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Speaker 1: their values?

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Speaker 4: Then of their values? Right?

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Speaker 1: How do you kind of make sense of all of that?

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Speaker 1: Because it seems like you've got your early childhood impact.

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Speaker 1: The person you have a relationship with is their early

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Speaker 1: childhood impact. You've now become adults. Now you're interacting. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of complexity there because you may not even

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Speaker 1: be aware of your own let alone. They may not

375
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Speaker 1: be aware of theirs, and so you don't have any

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Speaker 1: context of theirs. It feels like there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: unknown unknowns in a lot of relationships. And then you're

378
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Speaker 1: fighting about the dishes or the bills, or you're fighting

379
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Speaker 1: about something that feels very current. But would you say

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Speaker 1: that actually a lot of it is based on pre

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Speaker 1: existing data.

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Speaker 2: I think you beautifully Jay described why relationships are so complicated. Why,

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Speaker 2: as I said in the beginning, so many of us

384
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Speaker 2: continue to struggle wherever we are on our healing journey

385
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Speaker 2: within our relationships, because we do have all of these influences,

386
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Speaker 2: many of which that are out of sight and knowing

387
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Speaker 2: for ourself of course, because we can only receive information

388
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Speaker 2: that partners or potential partners are sharing. But I feel

389
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Speaker 2: like the individual journey of awareness of even first reckoning

390
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Speaker 2: with the possibility that our past is impacting us right,

391
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Speaker 2: and then getting really present to what habits and patterns

392
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Speaker 2: we are carrying in to our relationship. And then once

393
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Speaker 2: I think we get really clear in terms of what

394
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Speaker 2: is on our side of the street, then we can

395
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Speaker 2: simply before we know the details of kind of what

396
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: is in the subconscious world of our potential partners or

397
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Speaker 2: our loved ones, we can at least have awareness that

398
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Speaker 2: they have that world right, that many of the fights

399
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Speaker 2: that we're having, like you're sharing many fights I have

400
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 2: had over dishes, isn't necessarily about dishes at all. For

401
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 2: me personally, I know that there was a lot of

402
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Speaker 2: reactivity that I used to have when I would get

403
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Speaker 2: home from work and I would come home and dishes

404
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 2: weren't done in the sink. And for me, again all

405
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 2: beneath the iceberg, what was happening is I went through

406
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 2: as if I was removed or brought right back in

407
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Speaker 2: time to childhood where I lacked the emotionally attuned caregiver.

408
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Speaker 2: Though I had a caregiver who is very the way

409
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Speaker 2: she expressed loved my mom was through daily self care,

410
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Speaker 2: making sure that there was dinner on the table, making

411
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Speaker 2: sure that the dishes were done. Those were not chores

412
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Speaker 2: that I had as children. So for me, I have

413
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 2: this belief that those acts of service communicate someone's consideration

414
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Speaker 2: of me, someone's love and support of me. So now

415
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Speaker 2: flash forward in time when those kind of household duties

416
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Speaker 2: aren't done regardless of how my partner is showing up.

417
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Speaker 2: And there were many moments where I was welcomed home

418
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Speaker 2: with support, with interest, with curiosity, how is my day going,

419
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 2: open for me to talk and share how my day went.

420
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Speaker 2: Yet my laser focus on the lack of the dishes

421
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Speaker 2: being done, and the fact that that brought me back

422
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Speaker 2: as if I was the child who didn't have that

423
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: level of at Tuman, even though it was available in

424
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: my adult moment. It was as if my focus deleted it.

425
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Speaker 2: I was back in time, I was wound it, and

426
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Speaker 2: I react it right from that place. So, just using

427
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Speaker 2: my example, your example, I think all of these really

428
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: beautifully give us when a moment in time elicits a

429
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Speaker 2: really big reaction.

430
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Speaker 3: And this isn't to say I want to be really

431
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Speaker 3: careful here.

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Speaker 2: The emotion that I was feeling in the moment at

433
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Speaker 2: the dishes was very real physiologically. I had tension in

434
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Speaker 2: my muscles, my heart was racing, I was having an emotion.

435
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 2: It's not to shame ourself in that moment. Going back

436
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 2: in time doesn't negate the reality of the emotional experience

437
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: that we're having, which is why a lot of us

438
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Speaker 2: feel out of control, feel like we can't choose a

439
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 2: responsive choice, feel like we are instinctually kind of compelled

440
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: to react in that one way, though we do have

441
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: that choice. If we can teach ourselves again that separation,

442
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: if we can understand that big emotions are real though

443
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 2: a lot of times do indicate something from an earlier time,

444
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: and a lot of times it explains why our reaction

445
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 2: can be on the more immature, again, just developmental side

446
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: of things.

447
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

448
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: No, I'm so glad you in there, because I think

449
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: that is such a a poignant example of how this

450
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: all works. And it's nice to take something as simple

451
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: as a visual of the dishes and then where that

452
00:23:59,200 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: comes from.

453
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 4: What do we do with that awareness? Though?

454
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: Nicole, like, what do we do with that awareness? Because

455
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people will recognize, oh, got it,

456
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: I've just heard what Nicole said, yeah, that's right. When

457
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: my partner does X, it reminds me of how my

458
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: parent did why. Or when my partner doesn't do why,

459
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: it reminds me of men my parent did X or whatever.

460
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 4: It may be.

461
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: That version that you have while you're listening right now,

462
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: and for everyone who's listening and watching, I think we

463
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: go I see that, but it's I've crossed that bridge

464
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: so many times that it's I've got so used to

465
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: feeling that it's not only is it real, but it's

466
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: true to me that if someone doesn't do the dishes,

467
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: they don't care about me. Like we've put that meaning

468
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: to it, right, We've ascribed that very deep self worth

469
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: to an act. Right because of the amount of times

470
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: that it's gone on and on and on. Let's say

471
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: we're fortunate enough to even get that awareness, because even

472
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: that requires so much work to even be able to

473
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: admit even though it's real, even though I feel it,

474
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: even though it feels true, that it necessarily isn't true.

475
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 1: It's just a belief that I've built over time. What

476
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: do I do with that awareness? Because I feel so

477
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: conditioned by it, I feel so stuck in it, And

478
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: guess what my partner still doesn't do the.

479
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 4: Dishes even when they understand this. So where do I

480
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 4: go from there? What do I do?

481
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: I think that first piece of communication can go a

482
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 2: long way as we get clear on ourselves. Of course,

483
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: when we feel safe and secure in our particular relationships,

484
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: we can gift that knowledge because that might be the

485
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 2: difference between our partner. Then this is I think what

486
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: happens within relationships when we kind of enter into conflict cycles.

487
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: We have one person right regressing back in time, becoming reactive,

488
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 2: and then typically something in their reactivity sets off the

489
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: receiving partner, who then goes back in time, and now

490
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 2: we almost have two children kind of like sparring not

491
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 2: able to though enter their wise adult or more if

492
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: you will.

493
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 3: Mind So for a.

494
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: Lot of people, that awareness is incredibly helpful. Right for

495
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: a partner in a moment to say, Okay, this isn't

496
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,959
Speaker 2: really about the dishes, even tho I'm feeling very frustrated

497
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 2: that I'm getting yelled at that the dishes aren't done

498
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: right now, I maybe can compassionately breathe through for the

499
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: person who's uncovering there's important information in these moments. Again,

500
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: it's not to throw away the emotion or to shame

501
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: ourselves for having it. Those emotions carry important information. Right,

502
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 2: So if at the bottom of this, for a lot

503
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: of us there is an unmet need, maybe it's not

504
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: Maybe the support I need in that moment isn't about

505
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: the dishes, but maybe there is support I'm needing in

506
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: a different area or a different type of support that

507
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: I could benefit from. So understanding what's driving our reactivity,

508
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: I think can give us not only the language to communicate,

509
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 2: It can give us clarity on what's really going on

510
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: with which then can give us flexibility in other ways

511
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: that we can attempt to get that need met. Because

512
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: this is where I think it gets even more complicated

513
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: what many of us are seeking.

514
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: Me.

515
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: Right, even if I came home and all of the

516
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 2: dishes were done, that wasn't gonna remove what I felt

517
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: in the kind of like pit of my heart, and

518
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: I do it feels like a visceral as long as

519
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 2: I can remember, there was like a pressure feeling on

520
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: my chest. That wouldn't remove that feeling because where that

521
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: was coming from was from a lack of emotional attunement.

522
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: So even if everyone that I surround myself with cleans

523
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: my dishes from now until the end of time. If

524
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: they're not giving me that emotional attunement that I need,

525
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: if I'm not participating in that emotional attunement that I

526
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: need because I'm not present in my own emotional body

527
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 2: and sharing them, right, you get the picture, then I

528
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: will just have a lot of clean dishes for a

529
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 2: very long time, and I'll still have that pit in

530
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: that hole. And I think this is why a lot

531
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: of us cycle through reactivity.

532
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 3: We maybe do.

533
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: Directly communicate, maybe even sometimes our partner does the dishes,

534
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: and we still don't feel satisfied. We still don't feel fulfilled,

535
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: we still don't feel that connection or that support that

536
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,239
Speaker 2: we're looking for, because I think a lot of us

537
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: are actually looking for are not the actions. We're looking for,

538
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: that deep level of attunement. We're looking for that resonance.

539
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: We're looking to just feel a little less alone, even

540
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 2: if no one is saying anything to us, because they're

541
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: just sitting in that emotional presence or that emotional space

542
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: with us.

543
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you're so right, going back to

544
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: what you said earlier, we have to sit in that

545
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: space with ourselves in order to invite someone to sit

546
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: in it with us, because they can't just find that space. Right.

547
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: It's almost like you have a basement level in your

548
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: psyche that you have the key and access to in

549
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: the elevator, and if you don't invite someone into that

550
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: because you haven't visited it before, they're just on level

551
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: one trying to figure out where you want them to go.

552
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: And I'm literally visualized Inception right now, the movie where

553
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: all of his dreams are locked in an elevator. But

554
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: I think that that feels so true to me that

555
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: I find that even with my wife. We had a

556
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: really interesting conversation recently, so her book came out this year,

557
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: and before the book was coming out, this was like

558
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: maybe a month before the book came out, and I said,

559
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: I really want to understand how you'd like us to

560
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: celebrate this occasion, because I don't think I know. Now

561
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: we've been together for eleven years, married for eight years,

562
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: and I just said, I don't think I really have

563
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: understood not just how you like to celebrate, because that

564
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: I know we've celebrated great birthdays and you've had a

565
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: great time, but I don't know how you'd like to

566
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: celebrate this occasion in your life. It's different. I don't

567
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: want to take it like anything. And I said my assumption,

568
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: which would be wrong because it's a projection of how

569
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: I'd like to be celebrated. Mine would be to throw

570
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: you a big party and buy all your friends over

571
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: and you know, have loads of great food and everything.

572
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: But I was like, I think that's wrong, Like I

573
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: know that, so Howard, and she said something really beautiful.

574
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: She shows she goes we I felt like we celebrated

575
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: it last night. And I was like, what do you mean?

576
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: And she was like, well, we had our friends over.

577
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: I cooked for them from the cookbook. I made meals

578
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: for them. They all really.

579
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 4: Enjoyed the food.

580
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, but we didn't like that

581
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: it was it was just like it was just and

582
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: she was like, that's how I like to celebrate it,

583
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: because I got to cook what I love for people

584
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: I love and they appreciated it, and that was me

585
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: celebrating it.

586
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh wow, I could have just me.

587
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: And it was just this really interesting thing about this communication,

588
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: Like and I said to my wife, I said, after

589
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: I said, please inform me of things like that, because

590
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: I would have no idea like if you don't let

591
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: me in, if you don't invite me into that space

592
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: of this is how I like to be celebrated, and

593
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: she goes, you know what, I don't think I've thought

594
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: about it until you ask me right now. And so

595
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: it was a joint discovery. And I think I think

596
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: if people look at their relationship, it is not like, oh,

597
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,479
Speaker 1: you've kept me out and you haven't let me in

598
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: and you don't tell me. It's actually more like we're

599
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: actually just figuring this out, like both of us on

600
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: an awareness level of figuring this out.

601
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: I think that's such a beautiful story. I'm smiling. I

602
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: was so struck when I first met Lollie, who I've

603
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: been with her for a little over ten years now,

604
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: and she has such a curiosity one of the things

605
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: that attracted me very early on to her about everything.

606
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: She's just so interested in life, people understanding them. And

607
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: this was completely different than the experience I had in

608
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: my family. I was never necessarily asked what I thought

609
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 2: about certain things or how I was experiencing certain things

610
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 2: that more or less kind of we operated with this

611
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: kind of unified front in my family with a lot

612
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: of projection if one member felt or thought this thing,

613
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: there was the assumption that everyone thought her felt that

614
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: same way. So now flash forward decades and I'm with Lollie,

615
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: who's always curiously asking me my perspective on things, how

616
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: I'm experiencing things, what I think, and I was so

617
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: shocked and at a loss, if I'm honest, day I

618
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 2: had a hard time answering a lot of her curiosity

619
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: in the beginning because I didn't know.

620
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: I didn't stop to think.

621
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: So I'm imagining myself being asked how I would have

622
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: liked to celebrate something, and that would have been a

623
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: gift of exploration for me to have and to consider.

624
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 3: And I think what you're sharing.

625
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: I had a moment with Jenna, So my third partner

626
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: and I the other day in one of these very

627
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: similar moments that you're describing, and we were sitting in

628
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: the car and she was very quiet, and I noticed

629
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: a pattern of when we're out, typically driving in a car,

630
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: and that's a lot of the time where her and

631
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: I are out doing things together, she's very quiet. And

632
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 2: so I'm over here conditioned from my childhood to assign

633
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,479
Speaker 2: the meaning to quiet, which is danger bad silent treatment.

634
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: So you upset.

635
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,719
Speaker 2: Someone because this is the experience at time, and time

636
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: happened again in my childhood. So I'm sitting in car

637
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: and this is I mean, we've been together now for

638
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 2: over two years, Jenna and I, So for two years now,

639
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: I'm driving in silent car rides. I've not said a word,

640
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: just in my mind worried, Oh gosh, maybe we have

641
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 2: nothing to talk about, Like is in this like I

642
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: have things on my mind. I would try to engage conversation.

643
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: She would give me one word answer. So finally, just

644
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: last week, I said, I just want to bring something up.

645
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: I notice that you're quite quiet when we are out

646
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: in the car together, you know. And it opened up

647
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: a beautiful you know, self awareness opportunity or a couple

648
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: awareness where she.

649
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 3: Was like, oh, you know what, I guess I am.

650
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: I really like to just look out the window and

651
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: look at the scenery and listen to the music that

652
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: we have on. It's really as simple as that. Meanwhile,

653
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: I spent the better part of two years secretly be worried. Right,

654
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: So I think these are really beautiful examples of how

655
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: simple some of the steps that we can take are

656
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: and also how complicated humans make it because.

657
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 4: We do project totally. We do.

658
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: We are subjective creatures who are projecting all the time.

659
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: And I'm just sitting at like I have a lot

660
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: of compassion for myself, just all of this suffering that

661
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: you know, causing ourselves without just having the direct conversation

662
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 2: and communication.

663
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, we think we know what someone is thinking, which

664
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: is all based on how we think we feel affected

665
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: by that, right, like we think others are affected by

666
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: things the way we are. And therefore, if someone's quiet,

667
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: we believe they're quiet because if I was quiet, that

668
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: means I'm upset, and therefore if they're quite, they're upset.

669
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: And what's really interesting to me is when we communicate,

670
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: which I'm so glad you're raising that because it sounds basic,

671
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: but it's not because a lot of people, when we communicate,

672
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: we just say, well, I wish you'd talk more in

673
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: the car, I wish you'd just know how you want

674
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: to celebrate your birthday. I wish you'd just tell me

675
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: what you want me to do. And that's not communication.

676
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: Those are almost demand or control mechanisms or like kind

677
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: of they're kind of orders in one sense, like giving

678
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: an order to someone as opposed to saying hey, you know,

679
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: because of how I've grown up, I feel when someone

680
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: goes quiet, it means there's something wrong. What does it

681
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: mean for you?

682
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 2: Like?

683
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: Why is that important for you? And I think that's

684
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: what communication is. It's a safe space to explore and

685
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: be curious. And one of the things you brought about

686
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: earlier was this idea of how the nervous system seeks familiarity.

687
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: And what's really interesting is on the cover you talk

688
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: about finding peace. And what's really interesting is that all

689
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: of our familiarity is chaos. And so when there is

690
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: peace in a relationship, when there is quote unquote boredom

691
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: in a relationship, when there's quote unquote stillness in a relationship,

692
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: a lot of us who are familiar with chaos go,

693
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: wait a minute, what's going on? Because we're familiar with it.

694
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: And so I want to clarify what familiarity means because

695
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: I think we think familiarity means a good thing, but

696
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: we don't realize familiarity just means what you're used to.

697
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: And so talk to me about how should we respond

698
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: to peaceful scenarios when we're familiar with chaos.

699
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: I appreciate this because I think this is such a

700
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: common experience. Myself included it with a lot of stress,

701
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 2: overwhelming stress in the home. There was a sense of

702
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: home that I would receive when in stressful relationships or

703
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: when interacting with stressful individuals. So familiarity really.

704
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 3: Simply is repetition.

705
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 2: It's that which is predictable, right, It's kind of thinking

706
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: of the neural networks. Even I think that is very

707
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: common in our in our language. I can't think of

708
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: the order it, you know what I mean? Dialogue these days,

709
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: So understanding again, familiar is repeat it right. It doesn't

710
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 2: mean there is no good bad label that we.

711
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 3: Can put on it.

712
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 2: And a lot of people who have had chaotic early

713
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: experiences will exactly like you beautifully said, get to those moments,

714
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 2: even meet a person and without that rush of chemicals

715
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: will assume it's not the appropriate relationship. And one of

716
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 2: the biggest takeaways I hope that people get from reading

717
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: this book is kind of two part, first being the

718
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 2: awareness that the way we're defining and relating to other individuals,

719
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: like I said at the beginning, is more of an

720
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: imprint or an artifact of our past than an objective

721
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: reality about our present. And then once we understand that.

722
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: I think that could open the door for some of

723
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: us to become aware that what we are seeking and

724
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: recreating in terms of familiarity repetition is grounded more in stress, chaos,

725
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: maybe even trauma, unmet needs than in a grounded, secure,

726
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 2: peaceful love, because that's what we're really looking to create,

727
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: and understanding that our nervous system is playing a foundational

728
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 2: role in that meaning, if I'm not able as an

729
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 2: individual to self soothe or to find safe, secure others

730
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 2: with which I can coregulate with, if I'm not able

731
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: to create safety in myself, then chances are I'm not

732
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: going to be able to interact with another human and

733
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: find that secure grounding. So when I understand again the

734
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: role that I'm playing, the role that my nervous system

735
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: is playing, that my nervous system is playing a role,

736
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: right that I can't just wish my way into a calm,

737
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: graunded relationship. I actually have to teach my body how

738
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 2: to have one. And I also understand that that does

739
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: not mean that I won't experience conflict or disagreement or disconnection,

740
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: because I think sometimes after we unlearn and create the

741
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 2: possibility of even being safe and secure. I think sometimes

742
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 2: people then have the immediate expectation that a safe, secure

743
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: relationship is one without conflict, without disagreement, without unmet needs

744
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 2: in any given moment, because things need to be negotiated,

745
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: and that is included in a safely grounded relationship in actuality,

746
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 2: because anytimes two individuals who are uniquely different are trying

747
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 2: to relate and navigate life and make decisions for a

748
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: future of shared interest, there are going to be those

749
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: moments of disconnection. So the goal is not to remove

750
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: or expect those to not be present. How can I

751
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: always find my way back to safety and security is

752
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 2: the best question.

753
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 3: How can I repair.

754
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 2: After these moments of explosion or these moments of disconnection,

755
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: assuming that they will still be present, and how can

756
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: I always continue to expand that foundation within my relationship

757
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: of safety and security doesn't mean that there won't be

758
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: upsetting emotions or moments of dysregulation, but we can as

759
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: a system returned back to that peace and that grounded

760
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 2: state of calm.

761
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you know on that point of when

762
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: there is love? I think we always hear things like

763
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: you'll know when you know, and you know you just

764
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: feel it, like no matter what you love someone like

765
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: I find that it's so interesting because, like we said,

766
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: you're not familiar with peace, so when peace comes up,

767
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: you create chaos. We're not familiar with love, and so

768
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: how do you know love is there? Because you may

769
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: not be familiar from your childhood with what it feels

770
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: like to be loved unconditionally or wonderfully in whatever way.

771
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 4: That means, how do we then find it? How do

772
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 4: we then.

773
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: Notice it because we don't necessarily have a clear experience

774
00:39:59,520 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: of it.

775
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really it's a beautiful question even to consider,

776
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: and a painful, I think question too to come to

777
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 2: the reality that we might not have that embodied memory,

778
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: if you will, of what it actually feels like to

779
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: be in this sense of safety and security and love.

780
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: And I think maybe this it would benefit a discussion

781
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: of love, maybe really generally, because I think when people

782
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 2: think of love, and it's not to say it's not

783
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 2: a feeling. The the way I define love at least

784
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 2: is it is a feeling in connection with an action, right,

785
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: It's a sense of compassion, of consideration of let me

786
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: even bring it back scond, of awareness of another individual,

787
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: and then the ability to be considerate, compassionate, not only

788
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 2: in thought and feeling right, Like I can sit here

789
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: and feel a sense of love for you, but I

790
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 2: believe love extends beyond that into an action, right, Am

791
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: I able to then show up in this embodiment, whether

792
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: it just to support you in being present with you

793
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 2: when you're in an emotion that's upsetting or overwhelming, whether

794
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 2: it's to show up in more active or objective support

795
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 2: of you in whatever way that it is that you

796
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: might need it, So to know if we're able to

797
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: or when in which we're in that space. Again, all

798
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 2: of this goes back to the body, because unless we're

799
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: present in our body in our emotions, unless we're able

800
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 2: to feel right, to attune emotionally, to hold space and

801
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,919
Speaker 2: to sense that there is someone else that I want

802
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: to consider and to show those levels of care, we

803
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: have to be grounded in our body, to connect with

804
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: our heart, to connect with the emotion of compassion and care,

805
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 2: and then to act from that embodied place, Because again,

806
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: what we're looking for is that presence that's a loving

807
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: action in and of itself, outside of the other ways,

808
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 2: of course, that we can more objectively support someone. So

809
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 2: again I think it's if we're looking for that roller

810
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: coaster of biochemical emotions, if we're looking for us to

811
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: be like, you know, kind of hit over the head

812
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: with this like love spell, I think again we're going

813
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 2: to be looking for something that might not necessarily exist.

814
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: Because again, I think love happens in those grounded moments

815
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 2: we're able to extend space and awareness that there is

816
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: someone else that I can and want to care about.

817
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 2: Because when we're in a survival mode, when we're not

818
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 2: calm and ground it and safe and secure in our

819
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 2: own body, we can't even consider a perspective outside of

820
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: our own, let alone show up and care and compassion

821
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: of that perspective or that individual and their best interest.

822
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 2: So again, foundationally in the body, I can't make a

823
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 2: case enough for how important it is to be in

824
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: loving action. We have to be connected to our body,

825
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 2: our heart in particular, we have to be grounded and

826
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 2: safe in our nervous system and responsive in how we

827
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: choose to show up.

828
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: This point about being connected to your body is so valuable,

829
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 1: and I recently discovered I felt deeply for the first

830
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 1: time a disconnect I had with mine and it came

831
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: from my childhood. So I remember when I was young,

832
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: I would say probably preteens and maybe into my early

833
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: teenage years, there was a I used to experience my

834
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: heart beating fast, losing my breath, like feeling quite in

835
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: physically what would be considered like even like pain in

836
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: the heart region, like tight chestedness, like physically, and I

837
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: remember I would tell my mom, and my mom would

838
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: take me to the doctors, and we go to the doctors.

839
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: They'd wire me up with certain like technology or tools

840
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 1: that would measure my heart rate and things like that,

841
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: and they'd tell me to wear it for the next

842
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, sometimes the next seventy two hours, and

843
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: I'd wear it to school or whatever would be under

844
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: my shirt, I remember, And then they'd look at the

845
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: records and they'd be like, he's absolutely fine, like he's fine,

846
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, I'm pretty sure I'm not fine,

847
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: Like I definitely feel something. I don't feel it for

848
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: seventy two hours, but I do have moments where I

849
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 1: feel it. And my mom would be like, well, I'm

850
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: not I'm going to get you checked again. Because she'd

851
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: always care, and my mom's always been a very loving individual,

852
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: and so she'd introduce me to more specialists, and they'd

853
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: always come back and just say, oh, maybe he needs

854
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: inhaler because he has asthma. And then I remember testing

855
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: that for a bit and that wasn't it, and they

856
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: were like, oh no, sorry, we gave him an ala.

857
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't that, And so they wouldn't know, and I

858
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: forgot about that. I think I actually started living so

859
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: disconnected from my body because I didn't know what that meant,

860
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: and so I didn't want to feel it anymore. And

861
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 1: so I started real living quite cerebrally and mentally, and

862
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: I got fascinated with mastering the mind and everything else

863
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: that I've done in my life. And it's so interesting

864
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: that recently I was sitting with my wife and we

865
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: were talking about this and I was like, I was

866
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: experiencing anxiety, and I was experiencing nervousness and I was

867
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 1: experiencing stress. And when I was ten years old, twenty

868
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 1: six years ago, no one was talking about those things

869
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: and doctors, no one was telling me that. And where

870
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: I grew up in England, like I didn't know anyone

871
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: who had a therapist until even recently, so I didn't

872
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: have a therapist that was telling me that, and I

873
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: feel like I focused to live outside of my body

874
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: for so long because I couldn't make sense of it,

875
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 1: and because authorities and elders and experts in my life

876
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: couldn't validate an experience that I was having. It almost

877
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: made me feel stupid for having it when I was

878
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: a kid. And now I look back and I go, no,

879
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: wonder I lost touch with my body, And so getting

880
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: back in touch with my body again is looking back

881
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: at something at childhood which I lost, and now in

882
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 1: my life today I feel so much more closely connected

883
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: with it again where I'm like, ah, I can spot stress.

884
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: Oh that isn't sat Okay, I know what's going on.

885
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: I know breath work. Now, I have my meditation tools,

886
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: I have my toolkit to help me, but I can

887
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: now experience all of it in my body. If I'm

888
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: waking up earlier or I'm having disrupted sleep, I know

889
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: it's because I'm stressed about something in my daytime. So

890
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: does that make any sense? With this connected body?

891
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 2: I'm shaking my head so whole heartily, Jay, because that

892
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 2: feeling that I descripped earlier in my chest very young,

893
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,479
Speaker 2: I remember being a very little kid sitting They're usually

894
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,439
Speaker 2: laying awake at night when a lot of anxiety would

895
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 2: happen for me, I now looking back, believe was anxiety.

896
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 3: And I was emotionally.

897
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: Alone, so completely overwhelmed, and I lived then with near

898
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: constant anxiety.

899
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: Up through my twenties.

900
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 2: I had panic attack after panic attack, and so two

901
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 2: things that translated to a general disconnect from my body,

902
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 2: so much so that when I've been an athlete my

903
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 2: whole life, I played softball through college and generally lived

904
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: in cities, walked things like that, try to keep myself active.

905
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 2: Anytime I would be doing a more vigorous movement and

906
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 2: my heart rate would start to elevate and my body

907
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: would start to mimic the panic attack feelings, I would

908
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 2: start to immediately think I was gonna have a panic attack.

909
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 3: I need to avoid it.

910
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 2: So over time, gradually I start to even limit not

911
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 2: only generally how much time I spend in my body,

912
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 2: how much time I was moving, because certain movements would

913
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: mimic and bring me back. So any time I would

914
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 2: feel a discomfort, especially in my heart, oh, avoid that

915
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: exercise that's not for me. And so over time disconnected

916
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 2: from my body, avoiding anything that could help me reconnect

917
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 2: with my body because it felt too much like anxiety

918
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: living that same embodied way away from my emotions on

919
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 2: my spaceship like I call it. Yet my number one

920
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: complaint in relationship after a relationship was how emotionally disconnected

921
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: I felt, just like we've been talking about, pointed the

922
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 2: finger outside of myself. It must be the person I'm picking.

923
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 2: You're not able to meet me on my emotional level.

924
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 2: Onto the next relationship where lo and behold after a

925
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: couple months of honeymoon and those you know chemicals were

926
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: off and that I was back into were disconnected again,

927
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 2: not seeing how all of this connected back to my childhood.

928
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 2: Overwhelmed with emotion, my body and the emotions which were

929
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 2: totally normal too much for me to handle. I created

930
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 2: this disconnect that I then lived in on this spaceship.

931
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 2: And then I held everyone rep reponsible for that disconnection

932
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 2: that I was playing a part in creating. And again,

933
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: if that isn't for me, was an invitation to rebuild.

934
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 2: And I think this is the other side of the

935
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 2: coin here. All that awareness was beautiful. Now I'm still

936
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 2: tasked with the daily commitment of reconnecting and living in

937
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,439
Speaker 2: my body and there are a lot of moments where

938
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 2: I still meet whether it's physical discomfort emotional discomfort, because

939
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: now I have a lot of tension, that I carry

940
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 2: a lot of muscles and hunched posture, that I'm always

941
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 2: trying to stretch and work out of my body, and

942
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: that physical discomfort makes me want to say, you know what,

943
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this today, I'll do this tomorrow.

944
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 2: Yet staying committed to releasing that tension, same thing emotionally,

945
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 2: feeling really vulnerable and uncomfortable being emotionally vulnerable and asking

946
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 2: for the support I need, but knowing that that's what's

947
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: going to create that level of attunement that I'm looking for.

948
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 2: So all of this for me remains a daily commitment

949
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 2: because even though logically I can stay here and on

950
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 2: podcasts after podcasts how important these things are. Yet all

951
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: of this wiring and this discomfort and this vulnerability and

952
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 2: all of these beliefs are still present. That it is

953
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 2: a conscious, intentional choice every day for me to say no.

954
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:09,720
Speaker 3: Nicole.

955
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 2: Foundationally, your day begins in your body, whether it's just

956
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 2: you know, twenty to thirty minutes of gentle stretching and

957
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: silent reflection, I'm in my own vessel before I then

958
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 2: go and serve the world. And that isn't to say

959
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 2: that my email isn't distracting me. I don't have all

960
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: of these things I should be doing running through my

961
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: head every morning. But I use this as an illustration,

962
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 2: and again because I think some people think that oh,

963
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 2: awareness equals oh, I just shift and change and become

964
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: right this new person. And especially if we're talking about

965
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 2: reconnecting with our body and developing the ability to tolerate

966
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: stress and upsetting emotions, that awareness is going to take

967
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: a lot of practice to put into place the tools

968
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 2: and the resources in our bodies so that we can

969
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 2: begin to contain the discomfort.

970
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that negativity you've just sparked for me,

971
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,919
Speaker 1: This thought that recently I've been practicing more as well,

972
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: is that that negativity we feel externality when we don't

973
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 1: like someone or someone's causing us pain, we start seeing

974
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: our body in the same way. And so I found

975
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: that often, even though I consider myself to be quite

976
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: a positive, uplifting person for myself and for the people

977
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: around me, with my body, I've actually sometimes have a

978
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: very different relationship. And I found myself critiquing my body.

979
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: I found myself being negative about it if I've got

980
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: a cold or if I've developed Over Christmas, I had

981
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: a really bad parunculated tonsil, like it was really really

982
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: swollen and huge. You could see it if I just

983
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: opened my mouth, and I was just constantly like God,

984
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: just go away, like I got so much to deal with,

985
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: Like you know, I need to use my voice for

986
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: my work. And I had this negative cycle.

987
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 4: And one of my.

988
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: Friends, who's a healer and you know, a wonderful teacher

989
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: in his own right, he said to me it was

990
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: just like Jay, like, you know, you need to take

991
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: the medicine and you need and I'd been taking at

992
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: this point, I'd been taking antibiotics and everything, and nothing

993
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: was It wasn't going away. I was like, been on

994
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: a course for two weeks, like nothing's happening. And he

995
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: gave me some natural remedies, but he was saying, obviously,

996
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: you need to do the right remedy and take the

997
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 1: right practice. But he was like, you need to change

998
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: your relationship with this, Like your relationship with your body

999
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: is your body's your best friend. It's telling you, hey,

1000
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling so good right now. There's I'm trying

1001
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: to warn you of something. I'm trying to let you

1002
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: know what's going on, and you're telling your body to

1003
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: shut up and go away and get lost and just

1004
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: sort it out. And he was just like, just think

1005
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: about it differently, like the idea that your body's actually

1006
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,479
Speaker 1: trying to help you. If your body is tired because

1007
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: you haven't slept enough, guess what your body's saying, take

1008
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: some rest. If your body is panicking because you've finally

1009
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: done some exercise or done something challenging, it's your body

1010
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: saying we're not used to this.

1011
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 4: We need to get used to it.

1012
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: And so your body's actually on your side, and even

1013
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: pain is helping you recognize that there's something to shift.

1014
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: Whether it's your diet, whether it's your and you talk

1015
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: about this in the book, but whether it's your diet,

1016
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: whether it's your supplements, whether it's activity, whether it's meditation, stillness,

1017
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: but we look at it as a net negative signal

1018
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: rather than a sign of actual help.

1019
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 2: I'm really really relating to this coming from a childhood

1020
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: where there was a lot of not only chronic pain,

1021
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 2: chronic illness, and so for me, any sort of physiological

1022
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: symptom near Immediately my mind goes to the possibility of

1023
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 2: or even likelihood of it being a catastrophic even illness.

1024
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 2: And so for so long I on moment, you know,

1025
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 2: the second I sensed a shift or a possible symptom

1026
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 2: or a sickness or something coming on, I would go

1027
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 2: into kind of that fear based oh my gosh, what

1028
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: is this? A sign of kind of mentality. And at

1029
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 2: the same time, for me, physical illness was a point

1030
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 2: of connection with my mom because my mom one of

1031
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 2: the moments in time, especially with my older sister who

1032
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 2: suffered from a lot of chronic illness, my mom was

1033
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 2: able to be present when she needed to physically care

1034
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 2: for myself or my siblings. So now, right, I have

1035
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 2: this complicated nature, and I would see a kind of

1036
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 2: a remnant of this through my twenties. When I'm twenty

1037
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 2: years old, right, I have a sinus infection at this

1038
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 2: point know exactly what to take is the same thing

1039
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: I've taken for probably the decade before.

1040
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 3: For my sinus infection.

1041
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 2: Yet I have memories of being in the drug store

1042
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: in New York calling my mom and saying.

1043
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 3: Oh Mom, I'm sick again. You know what do I need?

1044
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 2: And she was saying, oh, gay Claiton, which is the

1045
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 2: thing I always get, you know, and for me I'm

1046
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 2: understanding now that was a moment where I was looking

1047
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:41,240
Speaker 2: for connection. So how complicated my relationship became with my body?

1048
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 3: Right?

1049
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 2: Where there was a certain almost desire to be sick? Yes,

1050
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 2: because now I can have the love and attention of

1051
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 2: my mom right and then there's a fear of being

1052
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 2: sick because that could mean something catastrophic. Then sometimes in

1053
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 2: my mind went upset with someone else. I go down

1054
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 2: to exactly what I heard my childhood growing up, where

1055
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 2: a statement my mom used to make is you'll miss

1056
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: me when I'm gone. So sometimes my mind now will

1057
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 2: fantasize to hurt someone that has hurt me something that

1058
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 2: happens to me typically probably guess but now where I'm sick, Oh, well,

1059
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 2: you'll be upset. Won't you be upset? If something wor

1060
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,959
Speaker 2: to really happen to me? How will that be for you?

1061
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 3: Right?

1062
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: In all of this world now, manufacturer created from this

1063
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 2: early experience complicating my relationship with my body and is

1064
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 2: still to this day, I have a lot of unlearning

1065
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: that symptoms like you beautifully said, I are just signals,

1066
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 2: not signals of a terminal illness, just a signal. Right,

1067
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: So really, for me not only learning how to connect

1068
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: with my body, how to unlearn some of these more

1069
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 2: kind of catastrophic beliefs, and how to learn how to

1070
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 2: connect with people outside of me needing someone to physically

1071
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 2: care for me, is all still kind of really a

1072
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 2: complicated mess.

1073
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, how do you start?

1074
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: What are the therapy based, healing based neurological actions and

1075
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: habits we can take to rewire that? Because you're so right, Like,

1076
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: some people will get ill and then they're they're manifesting

1077
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: like I'm going to get cancer, right, Like it's like

1078
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: a feeling of like, oh no, this is the worst.

1079
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: I was sweeing to someone else the other day who

1080
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: said to me, they've really believed that their success is

1081
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: one day just going to crumble because they don't deserve it,

1082
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: and it's something they've always believed. And so how do

1083
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: you unmanifest Like, how do you almost rewire that thought process?

1084
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: Because that again is a repetitive thought.

1085
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: A belief just going to start there the way I

1086
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 2: simply define a belief, It's a repeated thought grounded in

1087
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 2: our lived experience. So kind of breaking those two kind

1088
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: of sections the way we navigate then beliefs, right, because

1089
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 2: we can't just affirm our way out of them. We

1090
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: can't just give ourselves a new belief. It doesn't necessarily work.

1091
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: Though we can acknowledge that we have repeated certain narratives,

1092
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: certain beliefs in our mind. Right, those neurmals works have

1093
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 2: fired outside of our awareness time and time again, and

1094
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 2: we'll continue to fire outside of our awareness time and

1095
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,320
Speaker 2: time again the same every time a similar event happens

1096
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 2: that would elicit that sort of interpretation, meaning what we

1097
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 2: do in the moment, We don't anticipate that, oh, these

1098
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 2: beliefs aren't working for me, so I'm just going to shut.

1099
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 3: The volume off and they'll go away. Absolutely not.

1100
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: They will occur again the same time a similar experience

1101
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 2: warrants them. What we can do is show up as

1102
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 2: the empowered presence, right, the conscious being, and we can

1103
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 2: choose how much attention we're giving. Right, are we going

1104
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 2: to hook our full attention on and keep repeating the

1105
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 2: belief once it is kind of offered in our mind,

1106
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 2: or are we going to say, oh, right, there's that

1107
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 2: old belief again in my mind? It isn't necessarily accurate

1108
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 2: or true, or I know it's not true, and now

1109
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 2: I can choose somewhere else to put my attention. That's

1110
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 2: the first half. The second half, the more powerful half.

1111
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 2: Why we can't just affirm our way of our belief

1112
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: is because of what's happening in our body. Like we

1113
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 2: were talking about earlier, We've validated this experience.

1114
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 3: We feel this to be true.

1115
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 2: So the only way we're going to shift that embodied

1116
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 2: experience is if we begin to make new embodied choices

1117
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 2: to show up in action countering that belief.

1118
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 3: Even before I believe otherwise.

1119
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 2: So, just to use an example common belief, I think

1120
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 2: that is at the core of many of our relational

1121
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 2: habits is how we're not worthy. Right, So the next

1122
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 2: time when you hear all the litany of reasons remind

1123
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 2: you of why you're not worthy, right, we notice it,

1124
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 2: we pull our attention away. Doesn't mean that I'm going

1125
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 2: to feel worthy immediately. Does mean, though, that I can

1126
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 2: show up and begin to show up in actions of worthiness.

1127
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 2: How might someone who is worthy treat themselves generally or

1128
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: in this moment.

1129
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 3: And then consistently over time make those choices even before

1130
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 3: you believe you're worthy and knowing somewhere down the line.

1131
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 2: If we weaken that belief network by pulling our attention

1132
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 2: away every time it fires, and if we're now strengthening

1133
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 2: a new belief network by inaction embodying a new choice

1134
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 2: that will allow us to feel differently and maybe affirming

1135
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 2: a new thought, now we have the beginnings of a

1136
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 2: new network that will, over time take over where that

1137
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 2: old network existed.

1138
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, I remember kind of discovering this through

1139
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: the studies I did when I was a monk. And

1140
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: one of the practices that I developed, and this was

1141
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: to develop qualities that were recommended for people of spiritual

1142
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: culture to have and to reduce the effect of qualities

1143
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: that were not seen as aspirational. And so I remember

1144
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: writing down my top three to five most repeated thoughts

1145
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: around a particular thing, and I'd put a line down

1146
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: the middle of a piece of paper, and I would

1147
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: write down the script of what my mind currently says

1148
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: in that trigger, in that response, in that moment, and

1149
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: then for each point I would write an alternative script.

1150
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: And the key was the alternative script was not about

1151
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: being positive or not about being the opposite. I think

1152
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: that's what I've often seen. So for example, if we

1153
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: took if we took the basic premise of I'm not

1154
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 1: enough or I'm not worthy, as you just said, and

1155
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: on the other side, off you just run under best

1156
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: thing in the world Like that doesn't work. Like it

1157
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: needs to be more comprehensive and thoughtful than that. It

1158
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: needs to be more valuable than that. It may be

1159
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: I am worthy as I am, I've always been worthy.

1160
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: There's not a moment of becoming worthy. And what I

1161
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: found is the more that I researched those, the more

1162
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: that I read books like this and created paragraphs to

1163
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: support it, and the more I rehearsed it like an actor,

1164
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: like a script, you started realizing your script just changed.

1165
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 1: And all that you ever did was memorize an old

1166
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 1: script and learn a new one trade it. That's all

1167
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,919
Speaker 1: it was anyway. It was never that one was true

1168
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: and one was false. It was just that you had

1169
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: a script that you learned from your caregivers since the

1170
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: beginning and from the people that loved you first, and

1171
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you have a new script now.

1172
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting to me that we so deeply

1173
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: define ourselves by thinking we are our thoughts, and how

1174
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: much our thoughts are seen as non different from ourselves.

1175
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: But actually they're scripts. They're just scripts. And which script

1176
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: you've read the most and practiced the most and rehearsed

1177
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: the most is your reality.

1178
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think what we are missing is the

1179
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 2: foundational role that our and other people's body sensations played

1180
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 2: at the creation and repetition right of those scripts. And

1181
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 2: I've been talking a lot about a good old descartes.

1182
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 2: I think therefore, I am and a lot of us

1183
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 2: do have and embody that belief that all of the

1184
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 2: power right is in the mind, and the mind carries

1185
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 2: this reality, and that's so simply not true. All of

1186
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 2: the power actually lives in our body and our instinctual body.

1187
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:09,439
Speaker 2: And what participated in creating those scripts again was what

1188
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 2: was happening in our body and all of the other

1189
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 2: bodies that we're navigating those moments around us.

1190
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 3: And then that continues to be the case.

1191
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 2: We pay most attention to what's going on in our mind,

1192
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 2: not becoming aware that even in the current moment, what

1193
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 2: was happening in our mind was usually activated by the

1194
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 2: shifts in our body, by the fact that our nervous

1195
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 2: system outside of our awareness is always assessing and looking

1196
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 2: for possible threat based on what was once threatening to us.

1197
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 2: So all of these physiological shifts that you and I

1198
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 2: keep focusing on and talking about are initiating for a

1199
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 2: lot of us the thoughts that we then become present

1200
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 2: to in our minds. So until we understand again the

1201
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 2: foundational role that the body continues even to play in

1202
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 2: shaping our thoughts ultimately and shaping our beliefs, and then

1203
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 2: creating the opportunity to change both of those categories of

1204
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 2: thinking and believing, right, we're not going to be able

1205
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,919
Speaker 2: to create the shifts ultimately that we want, and when

1206
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 2: we do, that's when I.

1207
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 3: Think we can create incredible transformation.

1208
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 1: One of the things I love doing on the show

1209
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: is really clearly defining terms that I think are starting

1210
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: to become very mainstream or viral on TikTok or you know,

1211
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: these terms that I think often all to get thrown around,

1212
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: and so I wanted you to please define for us

1213
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: what is a trauma bond, because I feel like that's

1214
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: a term that is gaining popularity and gaining traction, but

1215
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: often we're not really sure of what it means.

1216
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 4: What is a trauma bond.

1217
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 2: I think a trauma bond is a relationship in which

1218
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 2: dysfunctional habits exist. And I'm giving a very intentionally giving

1219
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 2: a very expanded definition because I know clinically in the

1220
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 2: field for a very long time, trauma bond. I forget

1221
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 2: who it is that coined the term years ago, now Carns,

1222
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 2: I'm forgetting is exact name, but around a relationship in

1223
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 2: which there was abuse, usually active physical or sexual abuse,

1224
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 2: and kind of felt connection or commitment within that relationship.

1225
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 2: And I actually think this kind of mirrors my own

1226
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 2: expansion of definitions such as trauma include it to I

1227
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 2: think categorize the many other versions of trauma bond patterning

1228
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 2: of breaking cycles as I share in this subtitle, that

1229
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 2: exists within relationships. So again, really simply, it's the relational

1230
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 2: pattern that a lot of us learned that was adaptive

1231
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 2: in early childhood and those earlier relationships that we then

1232
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 2: rely on because it's predictable. It includes our identity, it

1233
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,959
Speaker 2: includes the predictable identities of all of those that were

1234
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 2: relating to and we rely on that kind of dynamic,

1235
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 2: the felt security in that dynamic. Let me say it

1236
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 2: that way, as our home base, So a trauma bond

1237
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 2: I think applies to a lot of us. I think

1238
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 2: there's a lot of dysfunctional habits that many of us

1239
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 2: are carrying in particularly around emotions and how we relate

1240
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 2: to and navigate emotions in relationships that many of us

1241
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 2: are still experiencing. And to answer a question that maybe

1242
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 2: listeners are having, because sometimes I do then get asked,

1243
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 2: well can you change a trauma bond?

1244
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 3: Is a trauma bond doomed?

1245
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 2: And I will be the first to say that when

1246
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 2: I began my relationship with Lally, it was absolutely had

1247
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 2: a lot of trauma bond patterning. It's what attracted us

1248
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: to each other on some level and through dedicated.

1249
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 3: Action on both of our parts.

1250
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 2: I absolutely believe and have seen obviously many other instances

1251
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 2: where trauma bond just like attachment patterns, I think this

1252
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 2: is another very common language in my opinion, at least,

1253
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 2: they are not be all end all categories that are

1254
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 2: you know, kind of for a lifetime or a terminal

1255
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 2: sentence if you will. So, trauma bond again, dysfunctional habits

1256
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 2: that exist in our relationships, typically habits that were once

1257
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 2: adaptive or protective at one time that get repeated that

1258
01:04:58,520 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 2: can absolutely be changed.

1259
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: That's so interesting though what you said that they were

1260
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 1: once protective, and what's really interesting that you said was

1261
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: that now.

1262
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 4: They become.

1263
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: In the relationship, Oh, that you're even attracted to each

1264
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: other because of those like it can even be the

1265
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: foundation of why you get together with someone, which is

1266
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 1: even harder to lose because that was what brought together.

1267
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: So you almost feel like there's so much value to it.

1268
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: So how do you break that cycle?

1269
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 2: Then?

1270
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 1: When it's almost like I'm attracted to you because of

1271
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: this trauma bond and we're starting to have that dependence

1272
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: on each other, how does one then break that apart

1273
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 1: when it feels like that's the reason you came together.

1274
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 2: This is kind of I think, going down another rabbit

1275
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 2: hole in a sense of attraction, because I think attraction

1276
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 2: is another word, you know, like we were talking about

1277
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 2: earlier in terms of familiarity and habitual right, a lot

1278
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 2: of times that which we think were attracted to is

1279
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 2: really that which is familiar to us, Like it's kind

1280
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 2: of an attraction based on the familiarity principle, if you will.

1281
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 2: So I think when we're considering that aspect, what yes

1282
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 2: does feel familiar and therefore attracts quote unquote us to

1283
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 2: many of the partners that we choose are the habits

1284
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 2: that we are used to, right, not necessarily what we

1285
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 2: want to consciously choose to create. So when we again

1286
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 2: become aware of what we're carrying in, what those early

1287
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 2: dynamics are, then I think we could get a bit

1288
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 2: clearer in terms of whether or not we're attracted to familiarity,

1289
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 2: or whether or not this is someone that we want

1290
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 2: to pursue a future with, and regardless again, because like

1291
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 2: I said, we can become attracted to familiar and then

1292
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 2: create a future that's not familiar at all for the

1293
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 2: two of us, you know, walking in a direction that

1294
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 2: we are intentionally choosing. What empowers that shift is intentionality,

1295
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: in my opinion, conscious awareness, each separately or together as partner,

1296
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 2: showing up and saying I'm understand standing, right, these dynamics

1297
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 2: about myself.

1298
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 3: These are the changes that I want.

1299
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 2: To make, right, This is how I see us going

1300
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 2: together in the future. So I think when we have

1301
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 2: the awareness and then have the communication, we can create

1302
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 2: the opportunity right to not only get clearer in terms

1303
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 2: of even if we were attracted to something that was

1304
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 2: familiar doesn't mean that it's not workable for us to

1305
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 2: keep both of our best interests in mind and create

1306
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 2: a future that works for both of us.

1307
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 4: What is what is real?

1308
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: An another term or another practice that I think has

1309
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,920
Speaker 1: also gained again mass attention more recently is in a

1310
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 1: Child work, and I feel like it's it's really interesting

1311
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: because we are starting to gain this language around how

1312
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: we have an in a child at all times and

1313
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: a lot of our inner child's needs unmet. You talk

1314
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: about authentic needs in the book, and now we spend

1315
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: our adult life in some way trying to fulfill those

1316
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: unmet in a child needs, But often in our adult

1317
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 1: life it can take us in so many different directions

1318
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 1: and keep us lost. What are some of the mistakes

1319
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: we make in trying to meet and in a child's needs?

1320
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: And what are some of the healthier ways we could

1321
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: choose to meet our in a child's needs and even

1322
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: if they're needed?

1323
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, understanding, I think even just this concept of in

1324
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 2: our child, I think this is another one of them

1325
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 2: that we could.

1326
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 3: Upon hearing it inner child.

1327
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 2: I'm an adult, that's right, this doesn't apply to me,

1328
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 2: And I think what kind of an inner child. How

1329
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 2: we can define that is the subconscious space of our

1330
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 2: mind as I've been describing throughout that houses a lot

1331
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 2: of this patterned way of being that was created at

1332
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 2: that time. Right, that was the adaptation in terms of

1333
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 2: how we had to shift and change and what needs

1334
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 2: were getting met or not getting met, and what emotions

1335
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,559
Speaker 2: that we had to or aspects of our self expression

1336
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 2: like I described earlier that weren't appropriate or that we

1337
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 2: were shamed right for having. So that ultimately all of

1338
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 2: this now is beneath the surface. It's still for a

1339
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 2: lot of of driving a lot of our reactivity. Even

1340
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 2: those moments that I've been sharing with the dishes, right,

1341
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 2: I'm becoming emotional. Right, that was a moment where my

1342
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 2: owner child was very alive. Right, I was feeling the

1343
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 2: feelings back in time of that unmet need of not

1344
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 2: having that attunement. So when we I think the first

1345
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,640
Speaker 2: shift is understanding that that exists inside of us, that

1346
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 2: we are kind of compelled and wired and we do

1347
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 2: have needs, and beginning then to explore how we are

1348
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,839
Speaker 2: showing up in service of our needs. Is there space

1349
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 2: in our general day, is there space in our relational

1350
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 2: day to make sure that I'm caring for my physical self.

1351
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 2: Is there room and space for my emotions? Am I

1352
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 2: giving and receiving the support that relationships allow for? And

1353
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 2: do I feel safe to be who I am?

1354
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 3: Right?

1355
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 2: And chances are if you're not kind of overwhelmingly saying yeah,

1356
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 2: I'm feeling pretty calm, grounded. I can take care of

1357
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:58,720
Speaker 2: my needs, I can share my emotions, we can negotiate

1358
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 2: for future. I'm able to be myself. Then a lot

1359
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 2: of what probably is happening are the habits of our

1360
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:09,720
Speaker 2: inner child, So becoming then clear how it is and

1361
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 2: creating space to break those patterns first, right, kind of

1362
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:16,599
Speaker 2: shifting out of those habitual ways of being and creating

1363
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 2: an opportunity to show up newly and for a lot

1364
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 2: of us, that means even bringing a full circle, learning

1365
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 2: a new relationship with our body, really simplifying it, looking

1366
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 2: into our sleep habits, looking into our nutritional habits, looking

1367
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 2: at how we navigate stress and the impact that it

1368
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 2: has on us, and then creating new habits that can

1369
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 2: better care for our nervous systems that ultimately we can

1370
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 2: be more attuned to our emotions and more able to

1371
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 2: share those with somebody else.

1372
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the things you talk about in the book,

1373
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 1: which I really resonated with was the seven conditions selves caretaker, overachiever, underachiever, rescue,

1374
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: a protector, life of the party, yes person, and hero worshiper.

1375
01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about this a lot because I've

1376
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: that a lot of people. Naturally, the way we see it,

1377
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: they're still playing that role, that role that allowed them

1378
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 1: to feel safe, protected, in control when they were younger.

1379
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 1: They're still demonstrating that role, and often that role today

1380
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 1: can actually lead them to becoming extremely successful, extremely accomplished,

1381
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 1: extremely adored, famous, rich, what everything else? Like, it can

1382
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: do so much, but then they almost get exhausted a

1383
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 1: playing that role. Or you recognize it's a role, and

1384
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 1: it was a role that you took on, but it

1385
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: was never you. It wasn't the you you wanted to be.

1386
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 1: It was the you you had to be. How do

1387
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: you reconcile that? How does someone reconcile whether they're externally

1388
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 1: quote unquote successful or not, just they've recognized now they're like,

1389
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 1: I've been playing this role. Maybe I was the peacekeeper,

1390
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: maybe I was the comedian, maybe I was the mediator

1391
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 1: since I was young, But actually I don't like that role.

1392
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to be that role, but now not

1393
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 1: only as that role been protective of me for so long,

1394
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 1: how do I give it up? Who would I be

1395
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,759
Speaker 1: without it? And can I construct another self?

1396
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1397
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 2: I mean you're beautifully giving language to not only the questions,

1398
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 2: though to the process of I think reconciliation. So once

1399
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 2: we've become aware that there is a role we're playing,

1400
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 2: which for a lot of us is very shame relieving,

1401
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,440
Speaker 2: because I know for me very much identifying with the overachiever,

1402
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 2: very much being validated by society that celebrated many of

1403
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 2: my achievements, I carried a ton of shame as I

1404
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 2: started to feel really disconnected and unfulfilled with this life

1405
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:44,720
Speaker 2: that was supposedly create it to make me feel validated

1406
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 2: and happy and fulfilled. And so when I didn't immediately

1407
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 2: feel that way, I started to worry and wonder what

1408
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,800
Speaker 2: was wrong with me? Right, So, without the language to

1409
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 2: have kind of zoomed back and say, oh, well, it's

1410
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 2: understandable you don't feel disconnected to your life, Nicole, because

1411
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 2: you're not authentically living it.

1412
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 3: Right.

1413
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 2: You achieved all of these things in service of seeking

1414
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 2: your mom's attention, seeking your mom's love seeking the sense

1415
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 2: of worthiness in action and in reality. It doesn't represent

1416
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 2: who you authentically are, because in many moments you're not

1417
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 2: even sharing who you authentically are with anyone. So that

1418
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 2: awareness piece, I think, for a lot of us, can

1419
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 2: be hugely shame relieving, though it doesn't shift us into

1420
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:31,799
Speaker 2: maybe the embodied self or the self expression or authentic

1421
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 2: expression that we want and need to create. Right, we

1422
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 2: have to break the habit of being this person, of

1423
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 2: playing this role, of wearing this mask, and create a

1424
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 2: new habit of showing up in our authenticity, which for

1425
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 2: a lot of us is very destabilizing. We've wrapped these identities.

1426
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 2: Some of us even prided ourself. Some of us, like myself,

1427
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 2: created a whole life around this identity that now we're questioning.

1428
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,680
Speaker 2: Could feel shameful because we're older now we should know

1429
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 2: who we are and what we want, so that.

1430
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 3: Could feel overwhelming.

1431
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,920
Speaker 2: We might need to shed right some of the actual

1432
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,920
Speaker 2: identity in service like how we are showing up now,

1433
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:17,480
Speaker 2: we are making like strategically new choices, so we're shedding identity.

1434
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 2: For a lot of us, it means mourning and grieving

1435
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 2: the circumstances that create it. The need for me to

1436
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 2: play that role right, the unmet needs, the aspects of

1437
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 2: myself that I was taught was too unworthy to be expressed.

1438
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 2: So for a lot of us, it's getting curious, it's questioning,

1439
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 2: it's creating the space to grieve and be with our

1440
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 2: pain and the resilience to begin to make new choices,

1441
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:45,200
Speaker 2: because again, all of that is still governed by our body.

1442
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 2: Because now we're going to show up against the expectation

1443
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,480
Speaker 2: of a lot of people. We're going to be challenging

1444
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people, other people's perception of us. We're

1445
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:56,719
Speaker 2: going to be challenging the dynamic like we talked about earlier,

1446
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 2: that was repeated and validated over time, and now we're

1447
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 2: showing going up not playing this role that we've already played.

1448
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 2: And so the stress that we're going to create in

1449
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,800
Speaker 2: all of the systems outside of us is going to

1450
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 2: create the scenario where we feel now overwhelmed and before

1451
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 2: we know what, we're right back in those old habits

1452
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 2: so forever.

1453
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: On the book, it's called how to Be the Love

1454
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: You Seek, break cycles, find peace and heal your relationships.

1455
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 1: Doctor Nicole Lepera the holistic Psychologist on Instagram if you

1456
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 1: don't follow already doctor Nicole. And Nicole, thank you so

1457
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:34,559
Speaker 1: much for giving us a masterclass on this and like

1458
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:38,599
Speaker 1: I said, we've dived into one percent of what's inside

1459
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: the book. There is so much more insights this book.

1460
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: I highly recommend it, and I was very grateful that

1461
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 1: you included my testimonial on the back, which I very

1462
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 1: deeply felt, very deeply in my heart to share with you.

1463
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: But I'm so grateful for everything you've shared today, all

1464
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 1: the insights, and thank you for going there with me

1465
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,680
Speaker 1: on so many different pathways. I wanted to make sure

1466
01:15:57,720 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 1: and a call. Is there anything that I didn't ask

1467
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 1: you that you'd love to share, or anything that's on

1468
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:03,599
Speaker 1: your heart right now that you feel compelled to share

1469
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 1: with the community.

1470
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:05,599
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate you asking.

1471
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:08,639
Speaker 2: I appreciate it as always shot your support. I did

1472
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 2: appreciate the opportunity to kind of go into a lot

1473
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 2: of aspects of my own journey in this conversation. So

1474
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 2: I'm hoping it was of service of course everyone out

1475
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 2: there listening, and I thank you all for tuning in.

1476
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Thank you, doctor Nika.

1477
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with

1478
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 1: doctor Gable Matte on understanding your trauma and how to

1479
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 1: heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

1480
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 2: Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a

1481
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 2: tree doesn't go where it's hard and thick, does it.

1482
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 4: It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable