WEBVTT - We're Not Stopping 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:16.245 School of Humans. We've just received a call that could 0:00:16.365 --> 0:00:20.045 change everything. It's from a person who claims that he 0:00:20.125 --> 0:00:24.125 knows Casey well and says that on multiple occasions, Casey 0:00:24.245 --> 0:00:27.685 told him that he killed Rebecca. If it was kind 0:00:27.725 --> 0:00:31.045 of surreal she received his phone call. That's my dad 0:00:31.245 --> 0:00:34.485 Stan as a deputy sheriff. He knows Dennis through the 0:00:34.485 --> 0:00:39.005 police department. And you know, I couldn't believe his phone calls. 0:00:39.845 --> 0:00:42.085 I said, you know what, we need to call Dennis, 0:00:42.205 --> 0:00:45.965 right and then this was aw, what's is Saturday? Saturday? 0:00:46.525 --> 0:00:49.685 So we called him and said, Dennis, I called him. 0:00:49.885 --> 0:00:51.845 I said, look, you know, I'm very important to talk 0:00:51.885 --> 0:00:54.445 to you now regarding this case. He said, I can't 0:00:54.525 --> 0:00:56.045 talk to you for a week and a half. I'm 0:00:56.085 --> 0:01:00.445 teaching some course in little You need to know that 0:01:00.525 --> 0:01:04.285 this is extremely important. I meant. He got Kenny. You 0:01:04.285 --> 0:01:06.525 could tell he was pissed off. He said, okay, I 0:01:06.645 --> 0:01:08.845 was leading office in thirty minutes, you know, kind of 0:01:08.845 --> 0:01:12.845 like guy. So we live down there, and so so 0:01:12.925 --> 0:01:16.325 we started off and Catherine was saying, okay, Dennis, he 0:01:16.365 --> 0:01:19.285 said what you got like it was his first three words, 0:01:19.485 --> 0:01:23.285 and so she started talking about it, and it said 0:01:23.485 --> 0:01:26.205 she said that he was just that was it. He 0:01:26.285 --> 0:01:30.085 just said, there's no way. He said he has an 0:01:30.085 --> 0:01:32.085 avertie al bye and all. He went on and on 0:01:32.245 --> 0:01:35.485 he did basically from that moment he dismissed everything. I 0:01:35.485 --> 0:01:37.045 went through it and he just cut me off and 0:01:37.085 --> 0:01:39.005 he's like, do you want me You wanted to hear it, 0:01:39.045 --> 0:01:41.085 and he just dismissed it. And then he pulled out 0:01:41.125 --> 0:01:53.645 his IRAQ follow grad study, showing his pictures around. In 0:01:53.725 --> 0:01:56.765 September of two thousand and four, twenty two year old 0:01:56.805 --> 0:02:00.045 Rebecca Gould was brutally murdered in a remote area of 0:02:00.125 --> 0:02:04.925 the Arkansas Ozarks. Fourteen years later, her killer is still 0:02:04.965 --> 0:02:08.125 out there. I've come back to Mountain View with one 0:02:08.165 --> 0:02:13.605 mission to get justice for Rebecca. I'm Catherine Townsend and 0:02:13.645 --> 0:02:24.765 this is Helen Gone. People confess to murders for a 0:02:24.845 --> 0:02:30.125 variety of reasons. So far during our investigation, we've heard 0:02:30.205 --> 0:02:32.645 rumors that people have said they murdered Rebecca while they 0:02:32.685 --> 0:02:35.365 were in prison, or have bragged about killing her in 0:02:35.445 --> 0:02:38.845 order to appear tough. But this was different. This new 0:02:38.885 --> 0:02:42.485 witness said that Casey confessed while crying and that he 0:02:42.565 --> 0:02:45.445 knew things that at the time no one but Rebecca's 0:02:45.485 --> 0:02:48.965 family knew that Rebecca was ending her relationship with Casey. 0:02:49.325 --> 0:02:52.205 Details about the cleanup and the dumping of the body, 0:02:52.565 --> 0:02:56.325 and a description of the murder weapon. I know we 0:02:56.445 --> 0:02:59.205 have to share this new information with the police immediately, 0:02:59.885 --> 0:03:02.285 so I take all the information I've obtained up until 0:03:02.325 --> 0:03:06.245 this point to lead investigator Dennis Simons. I tell Dennis 0:03:06.285 --> 0:03:09.405 about the new witness who claims to have information about Casey. 0:03:10.045 --> 0:03:13.245 Dennis quickly shuts me down and tells me again that 0:03:13.325 --> 0:03:17.285 Casey has an airtight alibi. When I started this case, 0:03:17.765 --> 0:03:21.645 I had very definite ideas about good guys and bad guys. 0:03:22.565 --> 0:03:24.645 I thought that I would go to the police and 0:03:24.685 --> 0:03:27.805 that they would follow up. But this witness is scared, 0:03:28.485 --> 0:03:30.765 and I'm worried that if the police won't even take 0:03:30.805 --> 0:03:36.845 his statement, we may lose this new evidence for good. 0:03:39.005 --> 0:03:42.325 As I've mentioned before, my dad is a deputy sheriff 0:03:42.405 --> 0:03:45.605 and a notary, though he works in a neighboring county. 0:03:46.045 --> 0:03:48.485 We check with the sheriff and he confirms that we 0:03:48.565 --> 0:03:54.205 can take an official statement ourselves if you could just 0:03:54.205 --> 0:03:57.245 tell him when you told me. We recorded this interview 0:03:57.245 --> 0:04:01.165 for the police, but to protect the witnesses privacy. I'm 0:04:01.165 --> 0:04:05.245 just going to describe the conversation. His facts are consistent 0:04:05.325 --> 0:04:07.965 with the conversation that we had on the phone, but 0:04:08.045 --> 0:04:11.125 he goes into much more detail about his multiple conversations 0:04:11.165 --> 0:04:15.685 with Casey where he confessed. He pulls out a company 0:04:15.725 --> 0:04:18.045 issued phone card to help nail down the dates he 0:04:18.085 --> 0:04:22.845 worked with Casey. We talk for forty five minutes. You 0:04:22.885 --> 0:04:26.245 can tell he's scared. You can hear the shaking in 0:04:26.285 --> 0:04:30.525 his voice. After the witness finishes talking, my dad has 0:04:30.565 --> 0:04:33.405 him summarize what he said in writing this right here 0:04:34.085 --> 0:04:37.485 is what would keep you from probably having to repeat 0:04:37.485 --> 0:04:40.325 this to NERD officer. You know what I'm saying, I 0:04:40.365 --> 0:04:43.365 am a deputy, and oh this is it's just a statement, 0:04:43.405 --> 0:04:46.605 a swarm statement where you say, here's kind of what happened, 0:04:47.285 --> 0:04:50.365 and when you sign it, and I'll sign it, I'm 0:04:50.365 --> 0:04:53.245 a notably. Actually I can do that, and this is 0:04:53.285 --> 0:04:56.365 what we can use to go forward with the investigator 0:04:56.565 --> 0:05:00.445 on this case. And that would be the best thing 0:05:00.485 --> 0:05:03.005 to do is just you know, you've got it recorded, 0:05:03.045 --> 0:05:05.045 but you know, if you just make it a look quick, 0:05:05.565 --> 0:05:08.565 you know, comments here kind of what you said, then 0:05:09.085 --> 0:05:12.365 that'd be the best way to get Well, we really 0:05:12.405 --> 0:05:16.125 appreciate you coming forward because at least would you just 0:05:16.165 --> 0:05:19.485 sign your name out there? All right? Well, yeah, and 0:05:19.525 --> 0:05:21.205 if you think of anything else like, feel free to 0:05:21.205 --> 0:05:25.405 text me or call me anytime. I give the witness 0:05:25.405 --> 0:05:28.725 statement to the police. In addition to Dennis, I send 0:05:28.725 --> 0:05:32.285 the information to Mark Collingsworth, he was the original investigator 0:05:32.325 --> 0:05:35.365 on Rebecca's case. A few days later, I talked to 0:05:35.405 --> 0:05:38.805 the witness again. It seems that Dennis has received the 0:05:38.845 --> 0:05:42.005 statement because the witness tells me Dennis met with him. 0:05:42.405 --> 0:05:45.445 The witness says that when he shared his story, Dennis 0:05:45.525 --> 0:05:48.285 argued with him, shook his head, and told him that 0:05:48.365 --> 0:05:52.805 Casey had an alibie. The witness asked me whether Dennis 0:05:52.845 --> 0:05:55.565 believed him, and offers to give his statement to someone else. 0:05:56.485 --> 0:05:59.085 After a few days of silence, I start to check 0:05:59.085 --> 0:06:02.405 on progress. I send an email to the higher ups 0:06:02.405 --> 0:06:06.645 of the Arkansas State Police, and Mark Collingsworth calls me immediately. 0:06:07.645 --> 0:06:09.845 He asks if we can meet in person at his 0:06:09.925 --> 0:06:16.365 office in Little Rock. My dad drives me there. Mark 0:06:16.405 --> 0:06:19.285 tells him he can't come into the meeting, so my 0:06:19.365 --> 0:06:23.165 dad waits in the lobby for me. Once I'm in 0:06:23.245 --> 0:06:26.285 Mark's office. I offer to talk to him off the record, 0:06:26.725 --> 0:06:30.045 but he declines. He looks at me matter of factly 0:06:30.165 --> 0:06:33.645 and says, everything here is on the record, Miss Townsend. 0:06:34.245 --> 0:06:36.605 He tells me that Dennis has put many hours into 0:06:36.645 --> 0:06:39.165 the case and knows what he's doing, and that I 0:06:39.205 --> 0:06:42.645 should leave the investigating to him. We discuss some of 0:06:42.645 --> 0:06:45.085 the details of the case, and he mentions that they 0:06:45.125 --> 0:06:47.885 are open to new evidence, but he won't tell me 0:06:47.925 --> 0:06:50.725 what's become of the witness statement, and by the end 0:06:50.725 --> 0:06:53.245 of the meeting it is clear that they won't share 0:06:53.285 --> 0:06:58.125 any evidence with me. Like I said before, I understand 0:06:58.205 --> 0:07:00.845 that police need to hold back certain facts from the 0:07:00.845 --> 0:07:04.645 public in order to catch killers, but it's been fourteen 0:07:04.765 --> 0:07:07.965 years and I'm getting pretty tired of them stonewalling me. 0:07:08.925 --> 0:07:11.925 After my meeting with Mark, I start to wonder, what 0:07:12.005 --> 0:07:14.965 do the cops need? What else is out there that 0:07:14.965 --> 0:07:20.485 I could possibly uncover to help the case. While Dennis 0:07:20.485 --> 0:07:24.165 and Mark are still the investigators, fourteen years have brought 0:07:24.205 --> 0:07:27.965 some changes. There's now a new prosecutor on the case, 0:07:28.565 --> 0:07:31.285 Holly Meyer, so I reach out to her to see 0:07:31.285 --> 0:07:34.045 what she needs to prosecute a case like this. So 0:07:34.125 --> 0:07:37.245 yes and I'm wondering, is like, if you were to 0:07:37.245 --> 0:07:39.525 prosecute empathetically a case, what would you what types of 0:07:39.525 --> 0:07:44.285 stuff would you need? Proof beyond a reasonable doubt? Like, well, 0:07:44.285 --> 0:07:47.245 you can make proof beyond a reasonable doubt in a 0:07:47.325 --> 0:07:51.725 great number of ways. You can have direct evidence, evidence 0:07:51.765 --> 0:07:55.605 of the scene, eyewitnesses, and then you can have circumstantial 0:07:55.645 --> 0:08:02.285 evidence right availability, opportunity, motive. But it all has to 0:08:02.325 --> 0:08:04.845 add up to proof beyond a reasonable doubt. We meet 0:08:04.845 --> 0:08:08.605 at her office. I explained to Holly All that I've uncovered. 0:08:09.285 --> 0:08:13.565 She sits, listens and takes notes because I wasn't getting 0:08:13.565 --> 0:08:15.725 any help from LA enforcement, which is I understand's an 0:08:15.725 --> 0:08:18.445 open case. I started sort of just from the ground up. 0:08:19.925 --> 0:08:24.125 And Casey was her boyfriend at the time, who she 0:08:24.245 --> 0:08:26.805 was staying with, and it all happened at Casey's house. 0:08:27.085 --> 0:08:29.085 She was killed at Casey's house and that's the place 0:08:29.125 --> 0:08:31.885 where the crime scene cleanup was. He had the motive, 0:08:32.005 --> 0:08:33.725 he had the murder weapon. What do you see the 0:08:33.725 --> 0:08:35.805 motive beds He was obsessed with her and he didn't 0:08:35.805 --> 0:08:39.925 want her to leave him. Love and violence is powerful stuff, 0:08:40.125 --> 0:08:42.485 no doubt about it. And I wonder also, like why 0:08:42.485 --> 0:08:45.205 he was ruled out so quickly got her theories on that. 0:08:47.125 --> 0:08:49.485 She challenges many of the facts that I bring to her. 0:08:49.605 --> 0:08:51.165 I think the time I was just a little bit off. 0:08:51.365 --> 0:08:55.045 You're talking about four hours off, though, Yeah, that's a 0:08:55.045 --> 0:08:59.645 lot off. I really think I think Dennis and Mark 0:08:59.645 --> 0:09:01.045 and those guys are a little more of a drill 0:09:01.085 --> 0:09:03.845 sergeant approach. But I think Casey's like, he's like the 0:09:03.885 --> 0:09:06.965 acoustic guitar strumming guy, the soul patch mister sensitive. And 0:09:07.005 --> 0:09:08.845 so I think when he came in there and started crying, 0:09:09.445 --> 0:09:11.165 I think they just didn't think he did it. They 0:09:11.245 --> 0:09:14.805 just thought, you know, they just didn't think he was 0:09:14.845 --> 0:09:17.045 capable of doing it, because he seems like this really 0:09:17.085 --> 0:09:20.485 sweet guy. And I think, you know, only if you've 0:09:20.485 --> 0:09:22.645 seen him be kind of psycho, you understand what he's 0:09:22.685 --> 0:09:25.925 capable of. Why did Danielle call him psycho the psycho 0:09:25.965 --> 0:09:31.085 career because she said that he was. She's like because 0:09:31.085 --> 0:09:33.005 of that, because he has like this really sweet If 0:09:33.005 --> 0:09:34.525 you see a picture of him, he's got like this 0:09:34.645 --> 0:09:37.525 sweet face and he kind of gives the impression of 0:09:37.565 --> 0:09:42.725 like the guitar storming, hippie stoner sweet guy. There are 0:09:42.805 --> 0:09:47.485 lots of things about this case that are kind of 0:09:47.525 --> 0:09:50.965 anomalies that I agree with Dandalone that it's one of 0:09:51.005 --> 0:09:54.045 the things that makes this case particularly challenging. Other pieces 0:09:54.085 --> 0:09:56.765 of evidence and these other statements point in other directions, 0:09:56.765 --> 0:10:00.485 and you know, not definitively going anywhere, but just kind 0:10:00.485 --> 0:10:04.205 of you know, all these other pieces that don't quite 0:10:04.565 --> 0:10:08.005 fit into the puzz because they're not what they appear 0:10:08.045 --> 0:10:12.205 to be, or they you know, weren't sufficiently nailed down, 0:10:13.885 --> 0:10:15.885 or they came up so much later that to which 0:10:15.885 --> 0:10:18.165 time it passed. She's familiar with all the rumors and 0:10:18.245 --> 0:10:22.805 theories we talk about. The most widely mentioned theory Chris, 0:10:23.365 --> 0:10:25.725 I'd seen him in prison before. It's a charming rogue. 0:10:25.765 --> 0:10:28.685 I mean, he's he's, he's he's when you talk to him, 0:10:29.005 --> 0:10:33.845 he's actually a personable guy. Yeah, and it seems to 0:10:34.125 --> 0:10:39.165 like toying with the police. I'm sure he does. So 0:10:39.205 --> 0:10:43.605 what have you seen of the official investigation? Nothing? Sometimes 0:10:43.645 --> 0:10:46.725 a fresh set of eyes is a really good thing 0:10:46.805 --> 0:10:49.005 for an investigation. I mean, I think so, I've worked 0:10:49.005 --> 0:10:51.885 with so many you know, I've worked on so many cases, 0:10:51.885 --> 0:10:55.045 and like, yeah, it's a positive. I mean, usually when 0:10:55.085 --> 0:10:58.565 someone kind of knows what they're doing. It's a positive 0:10:58.565 --> 0:11:00.325 thing and it can really help. But it's no slight 0:11:00.365 --> 0:11:03.005 on anyone who's done. You know, it's just it's just 0:11:03.045 --> 0:11:05.645 how it is. Sometimes it's it's you know, it's a 0:11:05.685 --> 0:11:09.205 good thing. I just stayed here because I really felt 0:11:09.245 --> 0:11:11.205 like I started to feel and it was more an 0:11:11.205 --> 0:11:13.765 emotional decision. I was like, I think spending time on 0:11:13.805 --> 0:11:17.765 the ground is actually like helping build relationships because like 0:11:17.805 --> 0:11:19.325 I get it. You know, someone comes in and says 0:11:19.325 --> 0:11:20.845 we're gonna help you the case, and you don't really 0:11:20.885 --> 0:11:23.725 you know, it takes time, Like I had to write 0:11:23.765 --> 0:11:26.165 people letters and approach a friend to get me to 0:11:26.205 --> 0:11:28.125 introduce me to that person, and you know, don't want 0:11:28.125 --> 0:11:29.845 to work on this case. You've got hours in minute, 0:11:29.885 --> 0:11:34.285 so obviously, yeah, I mean, and I feel really strongly 0:11:34.325 --> 0:11:36.045 about it, like I just want to find out who 0:11:36.085 --> 0:11:38.605 did it and get the right person arrested. That's my 0:11:38.765 --> 0:11:45.965 as my single one goal. So is it impossible, Well, 0:11:46.005 --> 0:11:51.765 nothing's impossible, but we're certainly not at a point where 0:11:51.765 --> 0:11:53.965 we have beyond a reasonable doubt on any one person. 0:11:54.405 --> 0:11:56.845 And there's an interesting when you have some interesting premises here, 0:11:56.845 --> 0:12:00.765 I want to think about them. Okay, if we can, 0:12:00.885 --> 0:12:02.605 if we can shake the trees and we can get 0:12:02.605 --> 0:12:05.005 something to fall out, that'd be great. One of Holly's 0:12:05.005 --> 0:12:07.885 co workers pops his head in the door of her office. 0:12:08.165 --> 0:12:11.925 I guess we've been talking for a while. All right, 0:12:11.965 --> 0:12:16.965 you're working so very hearty and be okay. All right, Well, 0:12:16.965 --> 0:12:19.485 I'm gonna get to work. It's a pativated arrest. Tell 0:12:19.565 --> 0:12:22.445 me if you get any interesting angles you've got myself. 0:12:23.245 --> 0:12:26.765 Holly seems to appreciate my passion for this case, but 0:12:26.885 --> 0:12:30.845 she says there are still too many unanswered questions. But 0:12:30.925 --> 0:12:34.005 as I leave her office, I feel confident that her 0:12:34.125 --> 0:12:36.725 energy may be exactly what we need to shake this 0:12:36.885 --> 0:12:45.605 case up and finally get some progress. Remember Laren, he 0:12:45.765 --> 0:12:47.765 was one of the people who was with Casey on 0:12:47.845 --> 0:12:51.445 the day Rebecca died. Over the past few weeks we've 0:12:51.485 --> 0:12:54.245 become friends. He keeps me up to date with his 0:12:54.285 --> 0:12:57.005 life and on all the happenings in Arkansas. What are 0:12:57.045 --> 0:13:01.965 you up to? Nothing much. I've got a job I'm 0:13:02.005 --> 0:13:06.685 starting tomorrow. Finally, really, he calls me about a new job. 0:13:06.845 --> 0:13:10.725 But more importantly, he tells me that after almost fifteen years, 0:13:11.245 --> 0:13:14.125 Dennis has reached out to him. This is great news 0:13:14.405 --> 0:13:17.445 because it seems like the police are re examining the case. 0:13:18.205 --> 0:13:21.405 Before I even talked to him, he had already called me, 0:13:21.565 --> 0:13:23.685 that's the message, been to my house while I wasn't there, 0:13:23.845 --> 0:13:26.445 went back only to say, I'm going to send this 0:13:26.525 --> 0:13:29.365 to you. Look at it. He's talking about Laren's statement 0:13:29.405 --> 0:13:32.685 from September twenty second, two thousand and four. Rather than 0:13:32.725 --> 0:13:35.925 meeting with Laren in person, he sent his statement back 0:13:36.005 --> 0:13:39.405 to him. Yeah, he called that's the message, then come 0:13:39.445 --> 0:13:41.005 to the house, knocked on the door, then went to 0:13:41.045 --> 0:13:43.645 where I worked, asked around for me, and then I 0:13:43.725 --> 0:13:47.405 returned his call, not knowing any of that, and he said, oh, yeah, well, 0:13:47.405 --> 0:13:49.725 I you know, I've been to your housing, your work. 0:13:51.085 --> 0:13:53.485 I was like, oh, well, okay. I was like, I 0:13:53.525 --> 0:13:55.485 mean you know, and he's like, oh no, no big deal. 0:13:55.565 --> 0:13:57.445 Just reviewed this statement and let me know what you think. 0:13:57.525 --> 0:14:01.325 It's fine. I was like, oh, seems kind of anti climatic. 0:14:01.565 --> 0:14:05.125 Laren explains how he felt about his reinterview. He's approaching 0:14:05.125 --> 0:14:08.805 everybody he to with intimidation, like leading out with that. Yeah, 0:14:08.925 --> 0:14:11.165 but that's kind of the feeling I got. He probably, 0:14:11.165 --> 0:14:12.845 you know, he probably looked up saw that like I 0:14:12.885 --> 0:14:15.085 was on probation, you know, and all that, and was like, oh, 0:14:15.445 --> 0:14:17.845 you know, if this guy's got, you know, some kind 0:14:17.885 --> 0:14:21.205 of secret, I'll pressure it out of him. His exact 0:14:21.245 --> 0:14:24.605 words were case he didn't do is man, that was 0:14:24.645 --> 0:14:26.565 his exact words. I just feel like he's doing this 0:14:26.725 --> 0:14:29.245 to take a lot. That's that's kind of the you know, 0:14:29.925 --> 0:14:32.245 once I talked to him, you know, that's that's exactly 0:14:32.325 --> 0:14:34.645 the feeling I got. You know, beforehand, I was like, well, 0:14:34.685 --> 0:14:37.845 maybe he's you know, shaking some treaties and knocking some cages, 0:14:37.885 --> 0:14:39.725 you know. But you know, once I talked to him, 0:14:39.765 --> 0:14:42.285 I was like, oh, well, okay, whatever in the morning. 0:14:42.365 --> 0:14:44.965 It's weird because you know, I think about it a lot, 0:14:45.325 --> 0:14:51.685 and and and it's of course like scenarios sometimes play 0:14:51.725 --> 0:14:55.125 out like memories, and and the truth is that I 0:14:55.165 --> 0:14:59.005 just cannot remember. I wish, I wish, I wish they 0:14:59.005 --> 0:15:02.605 would have asked me down then, But I can't remember 0:15:02.925 --> 0:15:06.725 about the change of clothes things, if he went home 0:15:06.805 --> 0:15:09.165 before we left to go to the movies between that 0:15:09.205 --> 0:15:12.205 two and four, I can't tell you for certain that 0:15:12.245 --> 0:15:14.005 he would you know that he did not that I 0:15:14.485 --> 0:15:16.525 know for a fact, he stated, Son until he picked 0:15:16.565 --> 0:15:19.645 him up, because it really feels like that may have happened, 0:15:19.645 --> 0:15:22.365 like maybe he said that, but but then again, that's 0:15:22.365 --> 0:15:25.645 a scenario I've played out in so much in my mind. Yeah, 0:15:25.685 --> 0:15:27.725 I'm telling you know, so I don't know. I just 0:15:27.725 --> 0:15:31.325 don't know that, you know. Laren struggles with his memory 0:15:31.685 --> 0:15:34.605 highlight one of the biggest challenges of this case. It's 0:15:34.605 --> 0:15:38.125 impossible to forget what happened to Rebecca, but for those 0:15:38.165 --> 0:15:40.805 closest to the case, some of the details can be 0:15:40.845 --> 0:15:45.405 hard to remember. He said, I can't remember exactly the words, 0:15:45.445 --> 0:15:47.765 but along the lines of, oh, you know, some people 0:15:47.885 --> 0:15:51.005 are just in it for uh fame, fortune and book deals. 0:15:51.325 --> 0:15:53.565 At the first mention of your name, he like interrupted 0:15:53.605 --> 0:15:58.365 the whole, the whole you know, conversation, like like, no, no, no, 0:15:58.445 --> 0:16:00.325 she's not gonna mean what you know, I guess, you know, 0:16:01.205 --> 0:16:04.005 by protocol he's probably supposed to do. But yeah, he 0:16:04.085 --> 0:16:06.005 was like, just just just for the record, she's got 0:16:06.045 --> 0:16:08.485 nothing to do with this investigation of what we're doing. 0:16:08.005 --> 0:16:23.925 You know, we'll be right back. Taylor is now back 0:16:23.965 --> 0:16:28.125 in Atlanta. We're still working together, but from afar I 0:16:28.205 --> 0:16:32.605 call her from Dad's house. During another Arkansas thunderstorm. Hey man, 0:16:32.685 --> 0:16:36.445 what's up. Hey, how's it going. I've relaxed a lot more. 0:16:36.485 --> 0:16:37.925 I've just kind of accepted I'm going to be here 0:16:37.965 --> 0:16:40.845 till this is over. I'm relaxing, you know, and I 0:16:40.925 --> 0:16:43.165 just feel like, you know, it's happening. I've just got 0:16:43.205 --> 0:16:46.765 it weirdly, and I know this sounds this sounds really strange, 0:16:46.925 --> 0:16:49.325 but like the fact that I'm physically here does matter. 0:16:49.485 --> 0:16:51.565 I just have to remember that it does matter. It 0:16:51.605 --> 0:16:54.085 makes people, you know, it's the only reason it's unfolded 0:16:54.125 --> 0:16:56.765 like this, I think because they know I'm not going away. Basically, 0:16:57.045 --> 0:16:59.285 hopefully at the end of all of this, we will 0:16:59.325 --> 0:17:03.645 have justice for Rebecca and the Goold family, you know 0:17:05.725 --> 0:17:16.205 we will. A few days later, I get a call 0:17:16.245 --> 0:17:19.125 from George with some interesting updates. Okay, and I'm gonna 0:17:19.205 --> 0:17:24.045 tell you I got an incredible gin this morning that 0:17:24.405 --> 0:17:30.205 Vivian had the interview Kate again and Mark Hollingsworth get 0:17:30.245 --> 0:17:35.725 back involved in the king. Wow. It's interesting because when 0:17:35.765 --> 0:17:38.365 I went to Seymour Collingsworth he said, you know, we 0:17:38.605 --> 0:17:41.685 these cases are regularly reviewed and this and that I've 0:17:41.725 --> 0:17:46.245 just seen too much craziness now because because Laren was saying, look, 0:17:46.285 --> 0:17:49.525 he said, upon rereading this statement, right, he said, it 0:17:49.525 --> 0:17:52.005 occurs to me that there are a lot of holes. 0:17:52.285 --> 0:17:54.285 Laren was like, it's pretty vague, he said, and I'm 0:17:54.325 --> 0:17:56.365 trying to remember and everything, But he said, but I 0:17:56.405 --> 0:17:59.685 do remember that at the time I thought that, like 0:17:59.765 --> 0:18:02.005 from the time I saw Casey that afternoon around two 0:18:02.085 --> 0:18:04.725 or two thirty that I you know, I remember thinking 0:18:05.205 --> 0:18:07.085 I had eyes on him or someone had eyes on 0:18:07.165 --> 0:18:09.005 him pretty much from then till, you know, all night. 0:18:09.045 --> 0:18:10.845 And he said, but it never occurred to me that 0:18:10.885 --> 0:18:16.885 it could have already happened. That is just crazy. It 0:18:16.925 --> 0:18:19.365 just seems like to the point where one of these 0:18:19.365 --> 0:18:22.245 guys would step up to the playton and say, hey, none, 0:18:22.325 --> 0:18:25.245 that takes me sense. I just question why he was 0:18:25.325 --> 0:18:28.925 ruled out so they when they refused to like rule 0:18:28.965 --> 0:18:31.685 out anyone else or give even basic details about the case, 0:18:31.725 --> 0:18:34.245 why was he ruled out so publicly and so quickly. 0:18:34.885 --> 0:18:39.845 That's just weird to me. Yeah, and it's gonna come across. 0:18:39.885 --> 0:18:41.085 I know what they're going to try to do. They're 0:18:41.085 --> 0:18:43.045 going to try to paint me as some reporter who's like, 0:18:43.445 --> 0:18:45.645 you know, oh, she's just going out and doing all that. 0:18:45.845 --> 0:18:48.125 You know what bullshit I've tried to give them. I 0:18:48.245 --> 0:18:50.565 begged them to listen to this. I begged them to 0:18:50.685 --> 0:18:53.005 listen to the information. And they've kicked me out of 0:18:53.005 --> 0:18:56.045 their office, repeatedly told me I was stirring up shit 0:18:56.205 --> 0:18:58.485 and told me to my own business. And it's just 0:18:58.725 --> 0:19:01.405 utterly ridiculous. Oh yeah, you know what they're gonna do. 0:19:01.445 --> 0:19:03.565 They're gonna try to say, oh, she's from New York 0:19:03.725 --> 0:19:06.005 or LA or wherever she's from, to know what she's 0:19:06.045 --> 0:19:09.965 talking about. Blah blah blah. Remember, Dennis was only assigned 0:19:10.005 --> 0:19:14.045 to Rebecca's case a few months into the investigation. Mark 0:19:14.085 --> 0:19:17.925 Hollingsworth was the original investigator. He's now in charge of 0:19:17.965 --> 0:19:21.765 the Criminal Investigations Division of Arkansas State Police. I don't 0:19:21.805 --> 0:19:24.325 think until I relieved, until I started writing about it 0:19:24.325 --> 0:19:26.405 in twenty sixteen, I don't think they had done any 0:19:26.445 --> 0:19:29.725 single thing on this case since probably two thousand and six, 0:19:29.765 --> 0:19:33.885 would be my guess, because that I was trying to 0:19:33.965 --> 0:19:36.965 thank this morning of when they would and look for 0:19:37.005 --> 0:19:39.085 that piano leg over the White River, and I believe 0:19:39.085 --> 0:19:40.845 it was those six and when they got kipped off 0:19:40.845 --> 0:19:42.885 that it was thrown into the River, and I may 0:19:42.965 --> 0:19:46.285 be wrong about that. In two thousand and five, it 0:19:46.365 --> 0:19:49.245 was reported that police received a tip that led them 0:19:49.285 --> 0:19:51.925 to drag the White River. It was never reported if 0:19:51.925 --> 0:19:55.805 anything of great evidentiary value was found. Maybe like they 0:19:55.925 --> 0:19:59.285 actually went in search for d White over on a 0:19:59.325 --> 0:20:02.565 White River like early on in the investigation and then 0:20:03.005 --> 0:20:11.925 way later on years later. So guy, But anyway, I 0:20:11.965 --> 0:20:14.405 think that that was probably the last time anybody had 0:20:14.405 --> 0:20:17.125 done anything Kate pubble baking money on that. I actually 0:20:17.165 --> 0:20:19.365 think after what I've seen with these witness statements, none 0:20:19.405 --> 0:20:21.485 of those guys were interviewed. They were all interviewed on 0:20:21.485 --> 0:20:24.645 September twenty second, which is the day after she went missing. 0:20:24.845 --> 0:20:27.325 So like it wasn't a serious thing, man, you know 0:20:27.365 --> 0:20:30.325 what I mean. And I don't think they were interviewed 0:20:30.325 --> 0:20:33.365 again after the body was found. Laren wasn't. I bet 0:20:33.365 --> 0:20:36.565 none of the others were either, So like he probably 0:20:36.605 --> 0:20:42.365 never had the opportunity. Absolutely crazy, Jennifer is baking all 0:20:42.405 --> 0:20:45.245 of his Kate on interviews that happened that he probably 0:20:45.285 --> 0:20:48.405 didn't even take part in on September twenty three, because 0:20:48.485 --> 0:20:51.005 Dennis came in a little later on the case. I 0:20:51.045 --> 0:20:54.605 can't be sure if or when he conducted interviews. But 0:20:54.765 --> 0:20:58.205 Laren and another one of Casey's friends signed statements were 0:20:58.285 --> 0:21:01.805 dated September twenty second, two thousand and four. He has 0:21:01.845 --> 0:21:04.965 not interviewed any of them until like the last couple 0:21:04.965 --> 0:21:07.845 of weeks, and he's not really interviewing that, He's just 0:21:07.885 --> 0:21:10.765 sending him back their own statements. One thing that I 0:21:10.925 --> 0:21:15.045 always tell young journalists to never do again. I always 0:21:15.045 --> 0:21:18.045 tell him if they always be somewhat captible. I look 0:21:18.085 --> 0:21:26.765 at police, tell you this is Helen gone. We'll be 0:21:26.925 --> 0:21:35.285 right back. Our witness reaches back out. He tells us 0:21:35.325 --> 0:21:38.325 that the podcast has been stirring things up in Melbourne. 0:21:39.245 --> 0:21:43.005 Then he drops a bomb. He says, Casey came over 0:21:43.085 --> 0:21:46.765 to his house screaming and freaking out and asking who else? 0:21:46.805 --> 0:21:49.445 He told, Yeah, I got a call from our witness 0:21:49.605 --> 0:21:53.485 and it was very disturbing. Actually, he asked, how's the 0:21:53.525 --> 0:21:55.685 case going. If I need to give my story again 0:21:55.725 --> 0:21:58.685 to a new investigator, please let me know. Casey found 0:21:58.685 --> 0:22:01.205 out about me talking to Dennis and confronting me about it. 0:22:01.605 --> 0:22:04.485 He was freaking out and screaming at me, asking who 0:22:04.565 --> 0:22:07.445 else I told. I don't know what else to say, Taylor, 0:22:08.285 --> 0:22:11.805 how fucked up? Is that that neither Taylor nor I 0:22:11.845 --> 0:22:15.885 can believe that somehow the identity of our witness got 0:22:15.925 --> 0:22:19.285 back to Casey. If solving this case was urgent before, 0:22:19.925 --> 0:22:23.325 it's now become imperative. We go back over the facts 0:22:23.365 --> 0:22:25.685 of the case as we know them. What is it 0:22:25.805 --> 0:22:31.285 that we think gonna path on grit? I have no idea. 0:22:31.805 --> 0:22:34.845 I think it's because I think it's because, as we 0:22:35.045 --> 0:22:38.125 talked about before, both Chris and JB were in Rebecca's 0:22:38.125 --> 0:22:41.685 recent contacts. You know, he's a bad I'm saying this 0:22:41.765 --> 0:22:45.805 with air quotes, bad guy, drug dealer around town. I 0:22:45.885 --> 0:22:49.005 think that also, I think that it got complicated because 0:22:49.005 --> 0:22:52.685 I think Chris and JB both probably and you know, 0:22:52.805 --> 0:22:55.725 later on, when Jennifer and Justin got pulled in. Like 0:22:55.725 --> 0:22:57.605 I said, there's a little bit of truth to everything. 0:22:57.845 --> 0:23:00.445