1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:16,245 Speaker 1: School of Humans. We've just received a call that could 2 00:00:16,365 --> 00:00:20,045 Speaker 1: change everything. It's from a person who claims that he 3 00:00:20,125 --> 00:00:24,125 Speaker 1: knows Casey well and says that on multiple occasions, Casey 4 00:00:24,245 --> 00:00:27,685 Speaker 1: told him that he killed Rebecca. If it was kind 5 00:00:27,725 --> 00:00:31,045 Speaker 1: of surreal she received his phone call. That's my dad 6 00:00:31,245 --> 00:00:34,485 Speaker 1: Stan as a deputy sheriff. He knows Dennis through the 7 00:00:34,485 --> 00:00:39,005 Speaker 1: police department. And you know, I couldn't believe his phone calls. 8 00:00:39,845 --> 00:00:42,085 Speaker 1: I said, you know what, we need to call Dennis, 9 00:00:42,205 --> 00:00:45,965 Speaker 1: right and then this was aw, what's is Saturday? Saturday? 10 00:00:46,525 --> 00:00:49,685 Speaker 1: So we called him and said, Dennis, I called him. 11 00:00:49,885 --> 00:00:51,845 Speaker 1: I said, look, you know, I'm very important to talk 12 00:00:51,885 --> 00:00:54,445 Speaker 1: to you now regarding this case. He said, I can't 13 00:00:54,525 --> 00:00:56,045 Speaker 1: talk to you for a week and a half. I'm 14 00:00:56,085 --> 00:01:00,445 Speaker 1: teaching some course in little You need to know that 15 00:01:00,525 --> 00:01:04,285 Speaker 1: this is extremely important. I meant. He got Kenny. You 16 00:01:04,285 --> 00:01:06,525 Speaker 1: could tell he was pissed off. He said, okay, I 17 00:01:06,645 --> 00:01:08,845 Speaker 1: was leading office in thirty minutes, you know, kind of 18 00:01:08,845 --> 00:01:12,845 Speaker 1: like guy. So we live down there, and so so 19 00:01:12,925 --> 00:01:16,325 Speaker 1: we started off and Catherine was saying, okay, Dennis, he 20 00:01:16,365 --> 00:01:19,285 Speaker 1: said what you got like it was his first three words, 21 00:01:19,485 --> 00:01:23,285 Speaker 1: and so she started talking about it, and it said 22 00:01:23,485 --> 00:01:26,205 Speaker 1: she said that he was just that was it. He 23 00:01:26,285 --> 00:01:30,085 Speaker 1: just said, there's no way. He said he has an 24 00:01:30,085 --> 00:01:32,085 Speaker 1: avertie al bye and all. He went on and on 25 00:01:32,245 --> 00:01:35,485 Speaker 1: he did basically from that moment he dismissed everything. I 26 00:01:35,485 --> 00:01:37,045 Speaker 1: went through it and he just cut me off and 27 00:01:37,085 --> 00:01:39,005 Speaker 1: he's like, do you want me You wanted to hear it, 28 00:01:39,045 --> 00:01:41,085 Speaker 1: and he just dismissed it. And then he pulled out 29 00:01:41,125 --> 00:01:53,645 Speaker 1: his IRAQ follow grad study, showing his pictures around. In 30 00:01:53,725 --> 00:01:56,765 Speaker 1: September of two thousand and four, twenty two year old 31 00:01:56,805 --> 00:02:00,045 Speaker 1: Rebecca Gould was brutally murdered in a remote area of 32 00:02:00,125 --> 00:02:04,925 Speaker 1: the Arkansas Ozarks. Fourteen years later, her killer is still 33 00:02:04,965 --> 00:02:08,125 Speaker 1: out there. I've come back to Mountain View with one 34 00:02:08,165 --> 00:02:13,605 Speaker 1: mission to get justice for Rebecca. I'm Catherine Townsend and 35 00:02:13,645 --> 00:02:24,765 Speaker 1: this is Helen Gone. People confess to murders for a 36 00:02:24,845 --> 00:02:30,125 Speaker 1: variety of reasons. So far during our investigation, we've heard 37 00:02:30,205 --> 00:02:32,645 Speaker 1: rumors that people have said they murdered Rebecca while they 38 00:02:32,685 --> 00:02:35,365 Speaker 1: were in prison, or have bragged about killing her in 39 00:02:35,445 --> 00:02:38,845 Speaker 1: order to appear tough. But this was different. This new 40 00:02:38,885 --> 00:02:42,485 Speaker 1: witness said that Casey confessed while crying and that he 41 00:02:42,565 --> 00:02:45,445 Speaker 1: knew things that at the time no one but Rebecca's 42 00:02:45,485 --> 00:02:48,965 Speaker 1: family knew that Rebecca was ending her relationship with Casey. 43 00:02:49,325 --> 00:02:52,205 Speaker 1: Details about the cleanup and the dumping of the body, 44 00:02:52,565 --> 00:02:56,325 Speaker 1: and a description of the murder weapon. I know we 45 00:02:56,445 --> 00:02:59,205 Speaker 1: have to share this new information with the police immediately, 46 00:02:59,885 --> 00:03:02,285 Speaker 1: so I take all the information I've obtained up until 47 00:03:02,325 --> 00:03:06,245 Speaker 1: this point to lead investigator Dennis Simons. I tell Dennis 48 00:03:06,285 --> 00:03:09,405 Speaker 1: about the new witness who claims to have information about Casey. 49 00:03:10,045 --> 00:03:13,245 Speaker 1: Dennis quickly shuts me down and tells me again that 50 00:03:13,325 --> 00:03:17,285 Speaker 1: Casey has an airtight alibi. When I started this case, 51 00:03:17,765 --> 00:03:21,645 Speaker 1: I had very definite ideas about good guys and bad guys. 52 00:03:22,565 --> 00:03:24,645 Speaker 1: I thought that I would go to the police and 53 00:03:24,685 --> 00:03:27,805 Speaker 1: that they would follow up. But this witness is scared, 54 00:03:28,485 --> 00:03:30,765 Speaker 1: and I'm worried that if the police won't even take 55 00:03:30,805 --> 00:03:36,845 Speaker 1: his statement, we may lose this new evidence for good. 56 00:03:39,005 --> 00:03:42,325 Speaker 1: As I've mentioned before, my dad is a deputy sheriff 57 00:03:42,405 --> 00:03:45,605 Speaker 1: and a notary, though he works in a neighboring county. 58 00:03:46,045 --> 00:03:48,485 Speaker 1: We check with the sheriff and he confirms that we 59 00:03:48,565 --> 00:03:54,205 Speaker 1: can take an official statement ourselves if you could just 60 00:03:54,205 --> 00:03:57,245 Speaker 1: tell him when you told me. We recorded this interview 61 00:03:57,245 --> 00:04:01,165 Speaker 1: for the police, but to protect the witnesses privacy. I'm 62 00:04:01,165 --> 00:04:05,245 Speaker 1: just going to describe the conversation. His facts are consistent 63 00:04:05,325 --> 00:04:07,965 Speaker 1: with the conversation that we had on the phone, but 64 00:04:08,045 --> 00:04:11,125 Speaker 1: he goes into much more detail about his multiple conversations 65 00:04:11,165 --> 00:04:15,685 Speaker 1: with Casey where he confessed. He pulls out a company 66 00:04:15,725 --> 00:04:18,045 Speaker 1: issued phone card to help nail down the dates he 67 00:04:18,085 --> 00:04:22,845 Speaker 1: worked with Casey. We talk for forty five minutes. You 68 00:04:22,885 --> 00:04:26,245 Speaker 1: can tell he's scared. You can hear the shaking in 69 00:04:26,285 --> 00:04:30,525 Speaker 1: his voice. After the witness finishes talking, my dad has 70 00:04:30,565 --> 00:04:33,405 Speaker 1: him summarize what he said in writing this right here 71 00:04:34,085 --> 00:04:37,485 Speaker 1: is what would keep you from probably having to repeat 72 00:04:37,485 --> 00:04:40,325 Speaker 1: this to NERD officer. You know what I'm saying, I 73 00:04:40,365 --> 00:04:43,365 Speaker 1: am a deputy, and oh this is it's just a statement, 74 00:04:43,405 --> 00:04:46,605 Speaker 1: a swarm statement where you say, here's kind of what happened, 75 00:04:47,285 --> 00:04:50,365 Speaker 1: and when you sign it, and I'll sign it, I'm 76 00:04:50,365 --> 00:04:53,245 Speaker 1: a notably. Actually I can do that, and this is 77 00:04:53,285 --> 00:04:56,365 Speaker 1: what we can use to go forward with the investigator 78 00:04:56,565 --> 00:05:00,445 Speaker 1: on this case. And that would be the best thing 79 00:05:00,485 --> 00:05:03,005 Speaker 1: to do is just you know, you've got it recorded, 80 00:05:03,045 --> 00:05:05,045 Speaker 1: but you know, if you just make it a look quick, 81 00:05:05,565 --> 00:05:08,565 Speaker 1: you know, comments here kind of what you said, then 82 00:05:09,085 --> 00:05:12,365 Speaker 1: that'd be the best way to get Well, we really 83 00:05:12,405 --> 00:05:16,125 Speaker 1: appreciate you coming forward because at least would you just 84 00:05:16,165 --> 00:05:19,485 Speaker 1: sign your name out there? All right? Well, yeah, and 85 00:05:19,525 --> 00:05:21,205 Speaker 1: if you think of anything else like, feel free to 86 00:05:21,205 --> 00:05:25,405 Speaker 1: text me or call me anytime. I give the witness 87 00:05:25,405 --> 00:05:28,725 Speaker 1: statement to the police. In addition to Dennis, I send 88 00:05:28,725 --> 00:05:32,285 Speaker 1: the information to Mark Collingsworth, he was the original investigator 89 00:05:32,325 --> 00:05:35,365 Speaker 1: on Rebecca's case. A few days later, I talked to 90 00:05:35,405 --> 00:05:38,805 Speaker 1: the witness again. It seems that Dennis has received the 91 00:05:38,845 --> 00:05:42,005 Speaker 1: statement because the witness tells me Dennis met with him. 92 00:05:42,405 --> 00:05:45,445 Speaker 1: The witness says that when he shared his story, Dennis 93 00:05:45,525 --> 00:05:48,285 Speaker 1: argued with him, shook his head, and told him that 94 00:05:48,365 --> 00:05:52,805 Speaker 1: Casey had an alibie. The witness asked me whether Dennis 95 00:05:52,845 --> 00:05:55,565 Speaker 1: believed him, and offers to give his statement to someone else. 96 00:05:56,485 --> 00:05:59,085 Speaker 1: After a few days of silence, I start to check 97 00:05:59,085 --> 00:06:02,405 Speaker 1: on progress. I send an email to the higher ups 98 00:06:02,405 --> 00:06:06,645 Speaker 1: of the Arkansas State Police, and Mark Collingsworth calls me immediately. 99 00:06:07,645 --> 00:06:09,845 Speaker 1: He asks if we can meet in person at his 100 00:06:09,925 --> 00:06:16,365 Speaker 1: office in Little Rock. My dad drives me there. Mark 101 00:06:16,405 --> 00:06:19,285 Speaker 1: tells him he can't come into the meeting, so my 102 00:06:19,365 --> 00:06:23,165 Speaker 1: dad waits in the lobby for me. Once I'm in 103 00:06:23,245 --> 00:06:26,285 Speaker 1: Mark's office. I offer to talk to him off the record, 104 00:06:26,725 --> 00:06:30,045 Speaker 1: but he declines. He looks at me matter of factly 105 00:06:30,165 --> 00:06:33,645 Speaker 1: and says, everything here is on the record, Miss Townsend. 106 00:06:34,245 --> 00:06:36,605 Speaker 1: He tells me that Dennis has put many hours into 107 00:06:36,645 --> 00:06:39,165 Speaker 1: the case and knows what he's doing, and that I 108 00:06:39,205 --> 00:06:42,645 Speaker 1: should leave the investigating to him. We discuss some of 109 00:06:42,645 --> 00:06:45,085 Speaker 1: the details of the case, and he mentions that they 110 00:06:45,125 --> 00:06:47,885 Speaker 1: are open to new evidence, but he won't tell me 111 00:06:47,925 --> 00:06:50,725 Speaker 1: what's become of the witness statement, and by the end 112 00:06:50,725 --> 00:06:53,245 Speaker 1: of the meeting it is clear that they won't share 113 00:06:53,285 --> 00:06:58,125 Speaker 1: any evidence with me. Like I said before, I understand 114 00:06:58,205 --> 00:07:00,845 Speaker 1: that police need to hold back certain facts from the 115 00:07:00,845 --> 00:07:04,645 Speaker 1: public in order to catch killers, but it's been fourteen 116 00:07:04,765 --> 00:07:07,965 Speaker 1: years and I'm getting pretty tired of them stonewalling me. 117 00:07:08,925 --> 00:07:11,925 Speaker 1: After my meeting with Mark, I start to wonder, what 118 00:07:12,005 --> 00:07:14,965 Speaker 1: do the cops need? What else is out there that 119 00:07:14,965 --> 00:07:20,485 Speaker 1: I could possibly uncover to help the case. While Dennis 120 00:07:20,485 --> 00:07:24,165 Speaker 1: and Mark are still the investigators, fourteen years have brought 121 00:07:24,205 --> 00:07:27,965 Speaker 1: some changes. There's now a new prosecutor on the case, 122 00:07:28,565 --> 00:07:31,285 Speaker 1: Holly Meyer, so I reach out to her to see 123 00:07:31,285 --> 00:07:34,045 Speaker 1: what she needs to prosecute a case like this. So 124 00:07:34,125 --> 00:07:37,245 Speaker 1: yes and I'm wondering, is like, if you were to 125 00:07:37,245 --> 00:07:39,525 Speaker 1: prosecute empathetically a case, what would you what types of 126 00:07:39,525 --> 00:07:44,285 Speaker 1: stuff would you need? Proof beyond a reasonable doubt? Like, well, 127 00:07:44,285 --> 00:07:47,245 Speaker 1: you can make proof beyond a reasonable doubt in a 128 00:07:47,325 --> 00:07:51,725 Speaker 1: great number of ways. You can have direct evidence, evidence 129 00:07:51,765 --> 00:07:55,605 Speaker 1: of the scene, eyewitnesses, and then you can have circumstantial 130 00:07:55,645 --> 00:08:02,285 Speaker 1: evidence right availability, opportunity, motive. But it all has to 131 00:08:02,325 --> 00:08:04,845 Speaker 1: add up to proof beyond a reasonable doubt. We meet 132 00:08:04,845 --> 00:08:08,605 Speaker 1: at her office. I explained to Holly All that I've uncovered. 133 00:08:09,285 --> 00:08:13,565 Speaker 1: She sits, listens and takes notes because I wasn't getting 134 00:08:13,565 --> 00:08:15,725 Speaker 1: any help from LA enforcement, which is I understand's an 135 00:08:15,725 --> 00:08:18,445 Speaker 1: open case. I started sort of just from the ground up. 136 00:08:19,925 --> 00:08:24,125 Speaker 1: And Casey was her boyfriend at the time, who she 137 00:08:24,245 --> 00:08:26,805 Speaker 1: was staying with, and it all happened at Casey's house. 138 00:08:27,085 --> 00:08:29,085 Speaker 1: She was killed at Casey's house and that's the place 139 00:08:29,125 --> 00:08:31,885 Speaker 1: where the crime scene cleanup was. He had the motive, 140 00:08:32,005 --> 00:08:33,725 Speaker 1: he had the murder weapon. What do you see the 141 00:08:33,725 --> 00:08:35,805 Speaker 1: motive beds He was obsessed with her and he didn't 142 00:08:35,805 --> 00:08:39,925 Speaker 1: want her to leave him. Love and violence is powerful stuff, 143 00:08:40,125 --> 00:08:42,485 Speaker 1: no doubt about it. And I wonder also, like why 144 00:08:42,485 --> 00:08:45,205 Speaker 1: he was ruled out so quickly got her theories on that. 145 00:08:47,125 --> 00:08:49,485 Speaker 1: She challenges many of the facts that I bring to her. 146 00:08:49,605 --> 00:08:51,165 Speaker 1: I think the time I was just a little bit off. 147 00:08:51,365 --> 00:08:55,045 Speaker 1: You're talking about four hours off, though, Yeah, that's a 148 00:08:55,045 --> 00:08:59,645 Speaker 1: lot off. I really think I think Dennis and Mark 149 00:08:59,645 --> 00:09:01,045 Speaker 1: and those guys are a little more of a drill 150 00:09:01,085 --> 00:09:03,845 Speaker 1: sergeant approach. But I think Casey's like, he's like the 151 00:09:03,885 --> 00:09:06,965 Speaker 1: acoustic guitar strumming guy, the soul patch mister sensitive. And 152 00:09:07,005 --> 00:09:08,845 Speaker 1: so I think when he came in there and started crying, 153 00:09:09,445 --> 00:09:11,165 Speaker 1: I think they just didn't think he did it. They 154 00:09:11,245 --> 00:09:14,805 Speaker 1: just thought, you know, they just didn't think he was 155 00:09:14,845 --> 00:09:17,045 Speaker 1: capable of doing it, because he seems like this really 156 00:09:17,085 --> 00:09:20,485 Speaker 1: sweet guy. And I think, you know, only if you've 157 00:09:20,485 --> 00:09:22,645 Speaker 1: seen him be kind of psycho, you understand what he's 158 00:09:22,685 --> 00:09:25,925 Speaker 1: capable of. Why did Danielle call him psycho the psycho 159 00:09:25,965 --> 00:09:31,085 Speaker 1: career because she said that he was. She's like because 160 00:09:31,085 --> 00:09:33,005 Speaker 1: of that, because he has like this really sweet If 161 00:09:33,005 --> 00:09:34,525 Speaker 1: you see a picture of him, he's got like this 162 00:09:34,645 --> 00:09:37,525 Speaker 1: sweet face and he kind of gives the impression of 163 00:09:37,565 --> 00:09:42,725 Speaker 1: like the guitar storming, hippie stoner sweet guy. There are 164 00:09:42,805 --> 00:09:47,485 Speaker 1: lots of things about this case that are kind of 165 00:09:47,525 --> 00:09:50,965 Speaker 1: anomalies that I agree with Dandalone that it's one of 166 00:09:51,005 --> 00:09:54,045 Speaker 1: the things that makes this case particularly challenging. Other pieces 167 00:09:54,085 --> 00:09:56,765 Speaker 1: of evidence and these other statements point in other directions, 168 00:09:56,765 --> 00:10:00,485 Speaker 1: and you know, not definitively going anywhere, but just kind 169 00:10:00,485 --> 00:10:04,205 Speaker 1: of you know, all these other pieces that don't quite 170 00:10:04,565 --> 00:10:08,005 Speaker 1: fit into the puzz because they're not what they appear 171 00:10:08,045 --> 00:10:12,205 Speaker 1: to be, or they you know, weren't sufficiently nailed down, 172 00:10:13,885 --> 00:10:15,885 Speaker 1: or they came up so much later that to which 173 00:10:15,885 --> 00:10:18,165 Speaker 1: time it passed. She's familiar with all the rumors and 174 00:10:18,245 --> 00:10:22,805 Speaker 1: theories we talk about. The most widely mentioned theory Chris, 175 00:10:23,365 --> 00:10:25,725 Speaker 1: I'd seen him in prison before. It's a charming rogue. 176 00:10:25,765 --> 00:10:28,685 Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's, he's he's when you talk to him, 177 00:10:29,005 --> 00:10:33,845 Speaker 1: he's actually a personable guy. Yeah, and it seems to 178 00:10:34,125 --> 00:10:39,165 Speaker 1: like toying with the police. I'm sure he does. So 179 00:10:39,205 --> 00:10:43,605 Speaker 1: what have you seen of the official investigation? Nothing? Sometimes 180 00:10:43,645 --> 00:10:46,725 Speaker 1: a fresh set of eyes is a really good thing 181 00:10:46,805 --> 00:10:49,005 Speaker 1: for an investigation. I mean, I think so, I've worked 182 00:10:49,005 --> 00:10:51,885 Speaker 1: with so many you know, I've worked on so many cases, 183 00:10:51,885 --> 00:10:55,045 Speaker 1: and like, yeah, it's a positive. I mean, usually when 184 00:10:55,085 --> 00:10:58,565 Speaker 1: someone kind of knows what they're doing. It's a positive 185 00:10:58,565 --> 00:11:00,325 Speaker 1: thing and it can really help. But it's no slight 186 00:11:00,365 --> 00:11:03,005 Speaker 1: on anyone who's done. You know, it's just it's just 187 00:11:03,045 --> 00:11:05,645 Speaker 1: how it is. Sometimes it's it's you know, it's a 188 00:11:05,685 --> 00:11:09,205 Speaker 1: good thing. I just stayed here because I really felt 189 00:11:09,245 --> 00:11:11,205 Speaker 1: like I started to feel and it was more an 190 00:11:11,205 --> 00:11:13,765 Speaker 1: emotional decision. I was like, I think spending time on 191 00:11:13,805 --> 00:11:17,765 Speaker 1: the ground is actually like helping build relationships because like 192 00:11:17,805 --> 00:11:19,325 Speaker 1: I get it. You know, someone comes in and says 193 00:11:19,325 --> 00:11:20,845 Speaker 1: we're gonna help you the case, and you don't really 194 00:11:20,885 --> 00:11:23,725 Speaker 1: you know, it takes time, Like I had to write 195 00:11:23,765 --> 00:11:26,165 Speaker 1: people letters and approach a friend to get me to 196 00:11:26,205 --> 00:11:28,125 Speaker 1: introduce me to that person, and you know, don't want 197 00:11:28,125 --> 00:11:29,845 Speaker 1: to work on this case. You've got hours in minute, 198 00:11:29,885 --> 00:11:34,285 Speaker 1: so obviously, yeah, I mean, and I feel really strongly 199 00:11:34,325 --> 00:11:36,045 Speaker 1: about it, like I just want to find out who 200 00:11:36,085 --> 00:11:38,605 Speaker 1: did it and get the right person arrested. That's my 201 00:11:38,765 --> 00:11:45,965 Speaker 1: as my single one goal. So is it impossible, Well, 202 00:11:46,005 --> 00:11:51,765 Speaker 1: nothing's impossible, but we're certainly not at a point where 203 00:11:51,765 --> 00:11:53,965 Speaker 1: we have beyond a reasonable doubt on any one person. 204 00:11:54,405 --> 00:11:56,845 Speaker 1: And there's an interesting when you have some interesting premises here, 205 00:11:56,845 --> 00:12:00,765 Speaker 1: I want to think about them. Okay, if we can, 206 00:12:00,885 --> 00:12:02,605 Speaker 1: if we can shake the trees and we can get 207 00:12:02,605 --> 00:12:05,005 Speaker 1: something to fall out, that'd be great. One of Holly's 208 00:12:05,005 --> 00:12:07,885 Speaker 1: co workers pops his head in the door of her office. 209 00:12:08,165 --> 00:12:11,925 Speaker 1: I guess we've been talking for a while. All right, 210 00:12:11,965 --> 00:12:16,965 Speaker 1: you're working so very hearty and be okay. All right, Well, 211 00:12:16,965 --> 00:12:19,485 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to work. It's a pativated arrest. Tell 212 00:12:19,565 --> 00:12:22,445 Speaker 1: me if you get any interesting angles you've got myself. 213 00:12:23,245 --> 00:12:26,765 Speaker 1: Holly seems to appreciate my passion for this case, but 214 00:12:26,885 --> 00:12:30,845 Speaker 1: she says there are still too many unanswered questions. But 215 00:12:30,925 --> 00:12:34,005 Speaker 1: as I leave her office, I feel confident that her 216 00:12:34,125 --> 00:12:36,725 Speaker 1: energy may be exactly what we need to shake this 217 00:12:36,885 --> 00:12:45,605 Speaker 1: case up and finally get some progress. Remember Laren, he 218 00:12:45,765 --> 00:12:47,765 Speaker 1: was one of the people who was with Casey on 219 00:12:47,845 --> 00:12:51,445 Speaker 1: the day Rebecca died. Over the past few weeks we've 220 00:12:51,485 --> 00:12:54,245 Speaker 1: become friends. He keeps me up to date with his 221 00:12:54,285 --> 00:12:57,005 Speaker 1: life and on all the happenings in Arkansas. What are 222 00:12:57,045 --> 00:13:01,965 Speaker 1: you up to? Nothing much. I've got a job I'm 223 00:13:02,005 --> 00:13:06,685 Speaker 1: starting tomorrow. Finally, really, he calls me about a new job. 224 00:13:06,845 --> 00:13:10,725 Speaker 1: But more importantly, he tells me that after almost fifteen years, 225 00:13:11,245 --> 00:13:14,125 Speaker 1: Dennis has reached out to him. This is great news 226 00:13:14,405 --> 00:13:17,445 Speaker 1: because it seems like the police are re examining the case. 227 00:13:18,205 --> 00:13:21,405 Speaker 1: Before I even talked to him, he had already called me, 228 00:13:21,565 --> 00:13:23,685 Speaker 1: that's the message, been to my house while I wasn't there, 229 00:13:23,845 --> 00:13:26,445 Speaker 1: went back only to say, I'm going to send this 230 00:13:26,525 --> 00:13:29,365 Speaker 1: to you. Look at it. He's talking about Laren's statement 231 00:13:29,405 --> 00:13:32,685 Speaker 1: from September twenty second, two thousand and four. Rather than 232 00:13:32,725 --> 00:13:35,925 Speaker 1: meeting with Laren in person, he sent his statement back 233 00:13:36,005 --> 00:13:39,405 Speaker 1: to him. Yeah, he called that's the message, then come 234 00:13:39,445 --> 00:13:41,005 Speaker 1: to the house, knocked on the door, then went to 235 00:13:41,045 --> 00:13:43,645 Speaker 1: where I worked, asked around for me, and then I 236 00:13:43,725 --> 00:13:47,405 Speaker 1: returned his call, not knowing any of that, and he said, oh, yeah, well, 237 00:13:47,405 --> 00:13:49,725 Speaker 1: I you know, I've been to your housing, your work. 238 00:13:51,085 --> 00:13:53,485 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, well, okay. I was like, I 239 00:13:53,525 --> 00:13:55,485 Speaker 1: mean you know, and he's like, oh no, no big deal. 240 00:13:55,565 --> 00:13:57,445 Speaker 1: Just reviewed this statement and let me know what you think. 241 00:13:57,525 --> 00:14:01,325 Speaker 1: It's fine. I was like, oh, seems kind of anti climatic. 242 00:14:01,565 --> 00:14:05,125 Speaker 1: Laren explains how he felt about his reinterview. He's approaching 243 00:14:05,125 --> 00:14:08,805 Speaker 1: everybody he to with intimidation, like leading out with that. Yeah, 244 00:14:08,925 --> 00:14:11,165 Speaker 1: but that's kind of the feeling I got. He probably, 245 00:14:11,165 --> 00:14:12,845 Speaker 1: you know, he probably looked up saw that like I 246 00:14:12,885 --> 00:14:15,085 Speaker 1: was on probation, you know, and all that, and was like, oh, 247 00:14:15,445 --> 00:14:17,845 Speaker 1: you know, if this guy's got, you know, some kind 248 00:14:17,885 --> 00:14:21,205 Speaker 1: of secret, I'll pressure it out of him. His exact 249 00:14:21,245 --> 00:14:24,605 Speaker 1: words were case he didn't do is man, that was 250 00:14:24,645 --> 00:14:26,565 Speaker 1: his exact words. I just feel like he's doing this 251 00:14:26,725 --> 00:14:29,245 Speaker 1: to take a lot. That's that's kind of the you know, 252 00:14:29,925 --> 00:14:32,245 Speaker 1: once I talked to him, you know, that's that's exactly 253 00:14:32,325 --> 00:14:34,645 Speaker 1: the feeling I got. You know, beforehand, I was like, well, 254 00:14:34,685 --> 00:14:37,845 Speaker 1: maybe he's you know, shaking some treaties and knocking some cages, 255 00:14:37,885 --> 00:14:39,725 Speaker 1: you know. But you know, once I talked to him, 256 00:14:39,765 --> 00:14:42,285 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, well, okay, whatever in the morning. 257 00:14:42,365 --> 00:14:44,965 Speaker 1: It's weird because you know, I think about it a lot, 258 00:14:45,325 --> 00:14:51,685 Speaker 1: and and and it's of course like scenarios sometimes play 259 00:14:51,725 --> 00:14:55,125 Speaker 1: out like memories, and and the truth is that I 260 00:14:55,165 --> 00:14:59,005 Speaker 1: just cannot remember. I wish, I wish, I wish they 261 00:14:59,005 --> 00:15:02,605 Speaker 1: would have asked me down then, But I can't remember 262 00:15:02,925 --> 00:15:06,725 Speaker 1: about the change of clothes things, if he went home 263 00:15:06,805 --> 00:15:09,165 Speaker 1: before we left to go to the movies between that 264 00:15:09,205 --> 00:15:12,205 Speaker 1: two and four, I can't tell you for certain that 265 00:15:12,245 --> 00:15:14,005 Speaker 1: he would you know that he did not that I 266 00:15:14,485 --> 00:15:16,525 Speaker 1: know for a fact, he stated, Son until he picked 267 00:15:16,565 --> 00:15:19,645 Speaker 1: him up, because it really feels like that may have happened, 268 00:15:19,645 --> 00:15:22,365 Speaker 1: like maybe he said that, but but then again, that's 269 00:15:22,365 --> 00:15:25,645 Speaker 1: a scenario I've played out in so much in my mind. Yeah, 270 00:15:25,685 --> 00:15:27,725 Speaker 1: I'm telling you know, so I don't know. I just 271 00:15:27,725 --> 00:15:31,325 Speaker 1: don't know that, you know. Laren struggles with his memory 272 00:15:31,685 --> 00:15:34,605 Speaker 1: highlight one of the biggest challenges of this case. It's 273 00:15:34,605 --> 00:15:38,125 Speaker 1: impossible to forget what happened to Rebecca, but for those 274 00:15:38,165 --> 00:15:40,805 Speaker 1: closest to the case, some of the details can be 275 00:15:40,845 --> 00:15:45,405 Speaker 1: hard to remember. He said, I can't remember exactly the words, 276 00:15:45,445 --> 00:15:47,765 Speaker 1: but along the lines of, oh, you know, some people 277 00:15:47,885 --> 00:15:51,005 Speaker 1: are just in it for uh fame, fortune and book deals. 278 00:15:51,325 --> 00:15:53,565 Speaker 1: At the first mention of your name, he like interrupted 279 00:15:53,605 --> 00:15:58,365 Speaker 1: the whole, the whole you know, conversation, like like, no, no, no, 280 00:15:58,445 --> 00:16:00,325 Speaker 1: she's not gonna mean what you know, I guess, you know, 281 00:16:01,205 --> 00:16:04,005 Speaker 1: by protocol he's probably supposed to do. But yeah, he 282 00:16:04,085 --> 00:16:06,005 Speaker 1: was like, just just just for the record, she's got 283 00:16:06,045 --> 00:16:08,485 Speaker 1: nothing to do with this investigation of what we're doing. 284 00:16:08,005 --> 00:16:23,925 Speaker 1: You know, we'll be right back. Taylor is now back 285 00:16:23,965 --> 00:16:28,125 Speaker 1: in Atlanta. We're still working together, but from afar I 286 00:16:28,205 --> 00:16:32,605 Speaker 1: call her from Dad's house. During another Arkansas thunderstorm. Hey man, 287 00:16:32,685 --> 00:16:36,445 Speaker 1: what's up. Hey, how's it going. I've relaxed a lot more. 288 00:16:36,485 --> 00:16:37,925 Speaker 1: I've just kind of accepted I'm going to be here 289 00:16:37,965 --> 00:16:40,845 Speaker 1: till this is over. I'm relaxing, you know, and I 290 00:16:40,925 --> 00:16:43,165 Speaker 1: just feel like, you know, it's happening. I've just got 291 00:16:43,205 --> 00:16:46,765 Speaker 1: it weirdly, and I know this sounds this sounds really strange, 292 00:16:46,925 --> 00:16:49,325 Speaker 1: but like the fact that I'm physically here does matter. 293 00:16:49,485 --> 00:16:51,565 Speaker 1: I just have to remember that it does matter. It 294 00:16:51,605 --> 00:16:54,085 Speaker 1: makes people, you know, it's the only reason it's unfolded 295 00:16:54,125 --> 00:16:56,765 Speaker 1: like this, I think because they know I'm not going away. Basically, 296 00:16:57,045 --> 00:16:59,285 Speaker 1: hopefully at the end of all of this, we will 297 00:16:59,325 --> 00:17:03,645 Speaker 1: have justice for Rebecca and the Goold family, you know 298 00:17:05,725 --> 00:17:16,205 Speaker 1: we will. A few days later, I get a call 299 00:17:16,245 --> 00:17:19,125 Speaker 1: from George with some interesting updates. Okay, and I'm gonna 300 00:17:19,205 --> 00:17:24,045 Speaker 1: tell you I got an incredible gin this morning that 301 00:17:24,405 --> 00:17:30,205 Speaker 1: Vivian had the interview Kate again and Mark Hollingsworth get 302 00:17:30,245 --> 00:17:35,725 Speaker 1: back involved in the king. Wow. It's interesting because when 303 00:17:35,765 --> 00:17:38,365 Speaker 1: I went to Seymour Collingsworth he said, you know, we 304 00:17:38,605 --> 00:17:41,685 Speaker 1: these cases are regularly reviewed and this and that I've 305 00:17:41,725 --> 00:17:46,245 Speaker 1: just seen too much craziness now because because Laren was saying, look, 306 00:17:46,285 --> 00:17:49,525 Speaker 1: he said, upon rereading this statement, right, he said, it 307 00:17:49,525 --> 00:17:52,005 Speaker 1: occurs to me that there are a lot of holes. 308 00:17:52,285 --> 00:17:54,285 Speaker 1: Laren was like, it's pretty vague, he said, and I'm 309 00:17:54,325 --> 00:17:56,365 Speaker 1: trying to remember and everything, But he said, but I 310 00:17:56,405 --> 00:17:59,685 Speaker 1: do remember that at the time I thought that, like 311 00:17:59,765 --> 00:18:02,005 Speaker 1: from the time I saw Casey that afternoon around two 312 00:18:02,085 --> 00:18:04,725 Speaker 1: or two thirty that I you know, I remember thinking 313 00:18:05,205 --> 00:18:07,085 Speaker 1: I had eyes on him or someone had eyes on 314 00:18:07,165 --> 00:18:09,005 Speaker 1: him pretty much from then till, you know, all night. 315 00:18:09,045 --> 00:18:10,845 Speaker 1: And he said, but it never occurred to me that 316 00:18:10,885 --> 00:18:16,885 Speaker 1: it could have already happened. That is just crazy. It 317 00:18:16,925 --> 00:18:19,365 Speaker 1: just seems like to the point where one of these 318 00:18:19,365 --> 00:18:22,245 Speaker 1: guys would step up to the playton and say, hey, none, 319 00:18:22,325 --> 00:18:25,245 Speaker 1: that takes me sense. I just question why he was 320 00:18:25,325 --> 00:18:28,925 Speaker 1: ruled out so they when they refused to like rule 321 00:18:28,965 --> 00:18:31,685 Speaker 1: out anyone else or give even basic details about the case, 322 00:18:31,725 --> 00:18:34,245 Speaker 1: why was he ruled out so publicly and so quickly. 323 00:18:34,885 --> 00:18:39,845 Speaker 1: That's just weird to me. Yeah, and it's gonna come across. 324 00:18:39,885 --> 00:18:41,085 Speaker 1: I know what they're going to try to do. They're 325 00:18:41,085 --> 00:18:43,045 Speaker 1: going to try to paint me as some reporter who's like, 326 00:18:43,445 --> 00:18:45,645 Speaker 1: you know, oh, she's just going out and doing all that. 327 00:18:45,845 --> 00:18:48,125 Speaker 1: You know what bullshit I've tried to give them. I 328 00:18:48,245 --> 00:18:50,565 Speaker 1: begged them to listen to this. I begged them to 329 00:18:50,685 --> 00:18:53,005 Speaker 1: listen to the information. And they've kicked me out of 330 00:18:53,005 --> 00:18:56,045 Speaker 1: their office, repeatedly told me I was stirring up shit 331 00:18:56,205 --> 00:18:58,485 Speaker 1: and told me to my own business. And it's just 332 00:18:58,725 --> 00:19:01,405 Speaker 1: utterly ridiculous. Oh yeah, you know what they're gonna do. 333 00:19:01,445 --> 00:19:03,565 Speaker 1: They're gonna try to say, oh, she's from New York 334 00:19:03,725 --> 00:19:06,005 Speaker 1: or LA or wherever she's from, to know what she's 335 00:19:06,045 --> 00:19:09,965 Speaker 1: talking about. Blah blah blah. Remember, Dennis was only assigned 336 00:19:10,005 --> 00:19:14,045 Speaker 1: to Rebecca's case a few months into the investigation. Mark 337 00:19:14,085 --> 00:19:17,925 Speaker 1: Hollingsworth was the original investigator. He's now in charge of 338 00:19:17,965 --> 00:19:21,765 Speaker 1: the Criminal Investigations Division of Arkansas State Police. I don't 339 00:19:21,805 --> 00:19:24,325 Speaker 1: think until I relieved, until I started writing about it 340 00:19:24,325 --> 00:19:26,405 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, I don't think they had done any 341 00:19:26,445 --> 00:19:29,725 Speaker 1: single thing on this case since probably two thousand and six, 342 00:19:29,765 --> 00:19:33,885 Speaker 1: would be my guess, because that I was trying to 343 00:19:33,965 --> 00:19:36,965 Speaker 1: thank this morning of when they would and look for 344 00:19:37,005 --> 00:19:39,085 Speaker 1: that piano leg over the White River, and I believe 345 00:19:39,085 --> 00:19:40,845 Speaker 1: it was those six and when they got kipped off 346 00:19:40,845 --> 00:19:42,885 Speaker 1: that it was thrown into the River, and I may 347 00:19:42,965 --> 00:19:46,285 Speaker 1: be wrong about that. In two thousand and five, it 348 00:19:46,365 --> 00:19:49,245 Speaker 1: was reported that police received a tip that led them 349 00:19:49,285 --> 00:19:51,925 Speaker 1: to drag the White River. It was never reported if 350 00:19:51,925 --> 00:19:55,805 Speaker 1: anything of great evidentiary value was found. Maybe like they 351 00:19:55,925 --> 00:19:59,285 Speaker 1: actually went in search for d White over on a 352 00:19:59,325 --> 00:20:02,565 Speaker 1: White River like early on in the investigation and then 353 00:20:03,005 --> 00:20:11,925 Speaker 1: way later on years later. So guy, But anyway, I 354 00:20:11,965 --> 00:20:14,405 Speaker 1: think that that was probably the last time anybody had 355 00:20:14,405 --> 00:20:17,125 Speaker 1: done anything Kate pubble baking money on that. I actually 356 00:20:17,165 --> 00:20:19,365 Speaker 1: think after what I've seen with these witness statements, none 357 00:20:19,405 --> 00:20:21,485 Speaker 1: of those guys were interviewed. They were all interviewed on 358 00:20:21,485 --> 00:20:24,645 Speaker 1: September twenty second, which is the day after she went missing. 359 00:20:24,845 --> 00:20:27,325 Speaker 1: So like it wasn't a serious thing, man, you know 360 00:20:27,365 --> 00:20:30,325 Speaker 1: what I mean. And I don't think they were interviewed 361 00:20:30,325 --> 00:20:33,365 Speaker 1: again after the body was found. Laren wasn't. I bet 362 00:20:33,365 --> 00:20:36,565 Speaker 1: none of the others were either, So like he probably 363 00:20:36,605 --> 00:20:42,365 Speaker 1: never had the opportunity. Absolutely crazy, Jennifer is baking all 364 00:20:42,405 --> 00:20:45,245 Speaker 1: of his Kate on interviews that happened that he probably 365 00:20:45,285 --> 00:20:48,405 Speaker 1: didn't even take part in on September twenty three, because 366 00:20:48,485 --> 00:20:51,005 Speaker 1: Dennis came in a little later on the case. I 367 00:20:51,045 --> 00:20:54,605 Speaker 1: can't be sure if or when he conducted interviews. But 368 00:20:54,765 --> 00:20:58,205 Speaker 1: Laren and another one of Casey's friends signed statements were 369 00:20:58,285 --> 00:21:01,805 Speaker 1: dated September twenty second, two thousand and four. He has 370 00:21:01,845 --> 00:21:04,965 Speaker 1: not interviewed any of them until like the last couple 371 00:21:04,965 --> 00:21:07,845 Speaker 1: of weeks, and he's not really interviewing that, He's just 372 00:21:07,885 --> 00:21:10,765 Speaker 1: sending him back their own statements. One thing that I 373 00:21:10,925 --> 00:21:15,045 Speaker 1: always tell young journalists to never do again. I always 374 00:21:15,045 --> 00:21:18,045 Speaker 1: tell him if they always be somewhat captible. I look 375 00:21:18,085 --> 00:21:26,765 Speaker 1: at police, tell you this is Helen gone. We'll be 376 00:21:26,925 --> 00:21:35,285 Speaker 1: right back. Our witness reaches back out. He tells us 377 00:21:35,325 --> 00:21:38,325 Speaker 1: that the podcast has been stirring things up in Melbourne. 378 00:21:39,245 --> 00:21:43,005 Speaker 1: Then he drops a bomb. He says, Casey came over 379 00:21:43,085 --> 00:21:46,765 Speaker 1: to his house screaming and freaking out and asking who else? 380 00:21:46,805 --> 00:21:49,445 Speaker 1: He told, Yeah, I got a call from our witness 381 00:21:49,605 --> 00:21:53,485 Speaker 1: and it was very disturbing. Actually, he asked, how's the 382 00:21:53,525 --> 00:21:55,685 Speaker 1: case going. If I need to give my story again 383 00:21:55,725 --> 00:21:58,685 Speaker 1: to a new investigator, please let me know. Casey found 384 00:21:58,685 --> 00:22:01,205 Speaker 1: out about me talking to Dennis and confronting me about it. 385 00:22:01,605 --> 00:22:04,485 Speaker 1: He was freaking out and screaming at me, asking who 386 00:22:04,565 --> 00:22:07,445 Speaker 1: else I told. I don't know what else to say, Taylor, 387 00:22:08,285 --> 00:22:11,805 Speaker 1: how fucked up? Is that that neither Taylor nor I 388 00:22:11,845 --> 00:22:15,885 Speaker 1: can believe that somehow the identity of our witness got 389 00:22:15,925 --> 00:22:19,285 Speaker 1: back to Casey. If solving this case was urgent before, 390 00:22:19,925 --> 00:22:23,325 Speaker 1: it's now become imperative. We go back over the facts 391 00:22:23,365 --> 00:22:25,685 Speaker 1: of the case as we know them. What is it 392 00:22:25,805 --> 00:22:31,285 Speaker 1: that we think gonna path on grit? I have no idea. 393 00:22:31,805 --> 00:22:34,845 Speaker 1: I think it's because I think it's because, as we 394 00:22:35,045 --> 00:22:38,125 Speaker 1: talked about before, both Chris and JB were in Rebecca's 395 00:22:38,125 --> 00:22:41,685 Speaker 1: recent contacts. You know, he's a bad I'm saying this 396 00:22:41,765 --> 00:22:45,805 Speaker 1: with air quotes, bad guy, drug dealer around town. I 397 00:22:45,885 --> 00:22:49,005 Speaker 1: think that also, I think that it got complicated because 398 00:22:49,005 --> 00:22:52,685 Speaker 1: I think Chris and JB both probably and you know, 399 00:22:52,805 --> 00:22:55,725 Speaker 1: later on, when Jennifer and Justin got pulled in. Like 400 00:22:55,725 --> 00:22:57,605 Speaker 1: I said, there's a little bit of truth to everything. 401 00:22:57,845 --> 00:23:00,445 Speaker 1: Justin was still probably in love with Rebecca, and you know, 402 00:23:00,845 --> 00:23:03,525 Speaker 1: Jennifer probably had some kind of beef weather, although it 403 00:23:03,525 --> 00:23:05,965 Speaker 1: looked like that had largely been kind of gotten over 404 00:23:06,005 --> 00:23:08,885 Speaker 1: by the time of the murder. And you know, JB 405 00:23:09,005 --> 00:23:11,845 Speaker 1: had sold her some weed, and Chris did deal drugs, 406 00:23:11,845 --> 00:23:13,565 Speaker 1: and all these things have a little bit of truth 407 00:23:13,565 --> 00:23:15,565 Speaker 1: to them. But at the end of the day, someone 408 00:23:15,645 --> 00:23:17,565 Speaker 1: crying and saying they did it and how they did 409 00:23:17,605 --> 00:23:21,805 Speaker 1: it and why, and describing the murder weapon. I can't 410 00:23:21,845 --> 00:23:25,165 Speaker 1: get Casey's alleged words out of my head. Not why 411 00:23:25,165 --> 00:23:28,005 Speaker 1: are you saying this about me? But who else did 412 00:23:28,045 --> 00:23:33,525 Speaker 1: you tell? A week later, Larry fills an official complaint 413 00:23:33,725 --> 00:23:35,765 Speaker 1: in the hopes that a new investigator will be put 414 00:23:35,805 --> 00:23:39,445 Speaker 1: on the case. It should have been solved. It was 415 00:23:39,485 --> 00:23:42,565 Speaker 1: an easy case to solve. It should have been solved 416 00:23:42,605 --> 00:23:48,405 Speaker 1: within the first two weeks. Everything was there. Had had 417 00:23:48,405 --> 00:23:54,405 Speaker 1: the right people come in to play almost immediately, I 418 00:23:54,405 --> 00:23:58,285 Speaker 1: don't think we'd be where we are today now. The 419 00:23:58,325 --> 00:24:00,325 Speaker 1: other thing is if you look at cases that or 420 00:24:00,325 --> 00:24:07,845 Speaker 1: cold cases, you know, you get some pretty aggressive people 421 00:24:07,925 --> 00:24:10,885 Speaker 1: searching those and in some cases you don't and the 422 00:24:10,885 --> 00:24:14,445 Speaker 1: ones where there's a sense of aggression and we're going 423 00:24:14,525 --> 00:24:18,125 Speaker 1: to solve this just like you guys. They dig up 424 00:24:18,205 --> 00:24:21,645 Speaker 1: things that are that are buried and that may have 425 00:24:21,685 --> 00:24:25,445 Speaker 1: been obvious. So over the years, as I've talked to 426 00:24:25,565 --> 00:24:31,725 Speaker 1: law enforcement, I've just since this complacency that we did 427 00:24:31,725 --> 00:24:34,925 Speaker 1: our work, this is what we have. You know, we'll 428 00:24:35,005 --> 00:24:38,205 Speaker 1: go we'll still work on it. But I think they 429 00:24:38,325 --> 00:24:41,645 Speaker 1: formed their opinions early, and I don't think they're the 430 00:24:41,725 --> 00:24:44,565 Speaker 1: least bit open minded to the fact that they could 431 00:24:44,765 --> 00:24:51,485 Speaker 1: absolutely be completely wrong. Now, the position I hold today 432 00:24:51,965 --> 00:24:56,125 Speaker 1: is the longer it is, the more complex it becomes. 433 00:24:56,885 --> 00:25:00,245 Speaker 1: So you actually have people that you can't find anymore. 434 00:25:00,285 --> 00:25:02,965 Speaker 1: You have certain witnesses that may have died, or certain 435 00:25:02,965 --> 00:25:07,925 Speaker 1: people move on, the stories may change. In this case, 436 00:25:08,365 --> 00:25:12,885 Speaker 1: you hope that maybe maybe people that were very young 437 00:25:12,925 --> 00:25:17,525 Speaker 1: at the time have matured and have a sense of 438 00:25:17,565 --> 00:25:20,565 Speaker 1: a conscience. You know, there may not have been a 439 00:25:20,605 --> 00:25:25,005 Speaker 1: conscience with some of these people, which is as you know, 440 00:25:25,605 --> 00:25:27,485 Speaker 1: the truth of a lot of people that do heinous 441 00:25:27,525 --> 00:25:33,285 Speaker 1: crimes is they just don't have a conscience. So I 442 00:25:33,285 --> 00:25:37,645 Speaker 1: would have to categorize the case now is complex, and 443 00:25:37,965 --> 00:25:42,325 Speaker 1: it's been made more complex by law enforcement. We think that, 444 00:25:43,285 --> 00:25:47,725 Speaker 1: you know, they're so highly trained and that they have integrity, 445 00:25:48,045 --> 00:25:52,965 Speaker 1: and a lot of them do. And I honestly at 446 00:25:52,965 --> 00:25:58,605 Speaker 1: this point don't know in Rebecca's case, if there's anybody 447 00:25:58,605 --> 00:26:07,645 Speaker 1: that I can trust anymore. It is a cold case, 448 00:26:08,245 --> 00:26:11,965 Speaker 1: and I'm sick of of these people hiding under the 449 00:26:11,965 --> 00:26:15,885 Speaker 1: guise of this is an active investigation and all they 450 00:26:15,925 --> 00:26:18,045 Speaker 1: have to do is say, well, we just interviewed somebody 451 00:26:18,085 --> 00:26:21,005 Speaker 1: last week, Therefore it's an active investigation. And then nobody 452 00:26:21,005 --> 00:26:24,525 Speaker 1: can see the file. They won't let me have her 453 00:26:25,045 --> 00:26:27,645 Speaker 1: any of her forensics, They wouldn't let me have any 454 00:26:27,685 --> 00:26:34,845 Speaker 1: of her of the medical, the anatomical findings. And you 455 00:26:34,965 --> 00:26:37,005 Speaker 1: just want other people to be able to look at this. 456 00:26:38,085 --> 00:26:43,685 Speaker 1: And so in a small town where when maybe one 457 00:26:43,725 --> 00:26:46,765 Speaker 1: person is hovering over this, there are lots of ways 458 00:26:46,765 --> 00:26:49,765 Speaker 1: that that person can kind of cover up this the file. 459 00:26:51,165 --> 00:26:53,325 Speaker 1: And I certainly don't want to imply that's being done here, 460 00:26:53,365 --> 00:26:57,365 Speaker 1: but that's what that's the appearance that you give if 461 00:26:57,405 --> 00:27:01,445 Speaker 1: you don't open up. So when I say this is 462 00:27:01,485 --> 00:27:05,925 Speaker 1: a complex case, it's been made complex because of longement 463 00:27:06,485 --> 00:27:11,845 Speaker 1: and their complete unwillingness to allow people that I could 464 00:27:12,685 --> 00:27:15,445 Speaker 1: employ to come in and take a look at the 465 00:27:15,485 --> 00:27:19,285 Speaker 1: case itself and maybe make some suggestions or get a 466 00:27:19,325 --> 00:27:22,645 Speaker 1: different sense of direction, or as they say, another pair 467 00:27:22,685 --> 00:27:25,685 Speaker 1: of eyes. So even though I turn these things over 468 00:27:25,725 --> 00:27:30,405 Speaker 1: to law enforcement, there was never any follow up that 469 00:27:30,485 --> 00:27:33,365 Speaker 1: I'm aware of. There may have been some, but I 470 00:27:33,405 --> 00:27:36,925 Speaker 1: almost feel like it was just filed in the in 471 00:27:36,965 --> 00:27:39,885 Speaker 1: that one drawer that kind of stays there and just 472 00:27:39,925 --> 00:27:43,805 Speaker 1: put out of the way and done so, maybe because 473 00:27:44,165 --> 00:27:46,685 Speaker 1: this feeling is we know who did it, we don't 474 00:27:46,725 --> 00:27:49,405 Speaker 1: need any more. This is who this is, who it is. 475 00:27:49,605 --> 00:27:52,285 Speaker 1: We just need to come up with enough evidence, and 476 00:27:52,325 --> 00:27:56,885 Speaker 1: they never seem to have enough evidence. So as a 477 00:27:57,445 --> 00:28:03,005 Speaker 1: as a dad, it gets incredibly frustrating because you feel 478 00:28:03,045 --> 00:28:05,045 Speaker 1: like if somebody had put the time in it, it's 479 00:28:05,245 --> 00:28:08,445 Speaker 1: it is still to this day of solvable case. It 480 00:28:08,565 --> 00:28:12,725 Speaker 1: just takes some cooperation. There's people that have written on it, 481 00:28:13,085 --> 00:28:15,645 Speaker 1: and obviously you guys are going to go public with it. 482 00:28:15,685 --> 00:28:18,125 Speaker 1: I think that's amazing, and I just think it would 483 00:28:18,285 --> 00:28:22,525 Speaker 1: I think, honestly if people that have a chance to 484 00:28:22,645 --> 00:28:25,205 Speaker 1: kind of pay attention to some of the things that 485 00:28:25,805 --> 00:28:29,285 Speaker 1: either go on or don't go on in cases, would 486 00:28:29,325 --> 00:28:35,365 Speaker 1: be incredibly offended and disappointed, because if this became your daughter, 487 00:28:35,525 --> 00:28:39,405 Speaker 1: your son, you would certainly want everything in the world 488 00:28:39,445 --> 00:28:44,605 Speaker 1: done to actively pursue an investigation to lead to some 489 00:28:44,725 --> 00:28:48,525 Speaker 1: kind of an arrest. Larry is petitioning the Arkansas state 490 00:28:48,605 --> 00:28:51,845 Speaker 1: legislature for the creation of Rebecca's Law, which would allow 491 00:28:51,925 --> 00:28:55,325 Speaker 1: more open access to cold case files. I don't anybody 492 00:28:55,365 --> 00:29:00,525 Speaker 1: try that's not guilty, and I understand the prosecutors when 493 00:29:00,565 --> 00:29:04,645 Speaker 1: they say I need more information. I think the only 494 00:29:04,725 --> 00:29:08,205 Speaker 1: the thing that's kept the Cammas is the fact that 495 00:29:09,005 --> 00:29:14,925 Speaker 1: I know where Rebecca is and that I have faith 496 00:29:17,045 --> 00:29:22,525 Speaker 1: that she's in heaven, and that's comforting. And if I 497 00:29:22,525 --> 00:29:26,845 Speaker 1: didn't have that faith, then I probably couldn't stay composed 498 00:29:27,685 --> 00:29:30,445 Speaker 1: and still continue to try to let the system work. 499 00:29:31,965 --> 00:29:35,525 Speaker 1: I think the system is capable of working. I think 500 00:29:35,525 --> 00:29:39,125 Speaker 1: the system is hard to get to work sometimes it's 501 00:29:39,565 --> 00:29:44,805 Speaker 1: it is not infallible. It has lots of flaws, but 502 00:29:45,205 --> 00:29:47,525 Speaker 1: as people say, it's the best system in the world. 503 00:29:48,245 --> 00:29:53,285 Speaker 1: And my comment to that was, you know, there's always 504 00:29:53,325 --> 00:29:56,285 Speaker 1: room for improvement. And that's the reason for Rebecca Law, 505 00:29:56,725 --> 00:29:59,605 Speaker 1: that's the reason for things that help bring these cases 506 00:29:59,645 --> 00:30:14,805 Speaker 1: to fruition and get them solved. It's been around five 507 00:30:14,885 --> 00:30:18,325 Speaker 1: months since the events in this episode occurred. According to 508 00:30:18,365 --> 00:30:22,605 Speaker 1: the Arkansas State Police, the investigation into Rebecca's murder is 509 00:30:22,645 --> 00:30:26,525 Speaker 1: still open and active. We have reached out to the 510 00:30:26,565 --> 00:30:29,885 Speaker 1: third man our witness mentioned. We wrote him a letter 511 00:30:29,885 --> 00:30:33,845 Speaker 1: in prison. He wrote us back, and nothing that he 512 00:30:33,925 --> 00:30:38,485 Speaker 1: said in his letter contradicted our witness's account. The police 513 00:30:38,485 --> 00:30:40,925 Speaker 1: have supposedly talked to him as well. But as far 514 00:30:40,965 --> 00:30:43,205 Speaker 1: as we know, they have not yet been able to 515 00:30:43,205 --> 00:30:47,445 Speaker 1: independently corroborate our witness's story. Chris is back in jail. 516 00:30:47,925 --> 00:30:50,765 Speaker 1: He's in the custody of the Arkansas State Police, and 517 00:30:50,845 --> 00:30:52,725 Speaker 1: it looks like he may be there for a while. 518 00:30:53,405 --> 00:30:56,805 Speaker 1: We have confirmed that a new investigator, Kim Warren, has 519 00:30:56,845 --> 00:31:00,285 Speaker 1: been assigned to the case. Hopefully the case will be 520 00:31:00,285 --> 00:31:04,205 Speaker 1: looked at with fresh eyes, because otherwise the search for 521 00:31:04,245 --> 00:31:06,925 Speaker 1: Rebecca's killer could continue to be dead in the water. 522 00:31:07,885 --> 00:31:10,405 Speaker 1: From this point forward, I'm going to change the format 523 00:31:10,445 --> 00:31:13,005 Speaker 1: for a little while. I'll be posting updates and more 524 00:31:13,085 --> 00:31:17,165 Speaker 1: of an on the spot manner, sometimes longer, sometimes quick bites, 525 00:31:17,805 --> 00:31:20,845 Speaker 1: new interviews as I talk to new people, new facts, 526 00:31:21,165 --> 00:31:25,125 Speaker 1: new leads, so check the feed often. We're now in 527 00:31:25,165 --> 00:31:28,565 Speaker 1: this together. There are some people listening to this podcast, 528 00:31:29,245 --> 00:31:32,245 Speaker 1: many who may be relieved that, at least for now, 529 00:31:32,885 --> 00:31:37,845 Speaker 1: we've come to an end. But I want them to 530 00:31:37,885 --> 00:31:40,765 Speaker 1: know that this is just the beginning, because, like I 531 00:31:40,805 --> 00:31:45,245 Speaker 1: said before, We're not stopping until we catch Rebecca's killer. 532 00:31:46,645 --> 00:32:08,165 Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend and this is Helen Gone. Helen Gone 533 00:32:08,245 --> 00:32:11,685 Speaker 1: is a joint production between How Stuffworks and School of Humans. 534 00:32:12,405 --> 00:32:15,965 Speaker 1: It is written and recorded by me. Catherine Townsend. Taylor 535 00:32:16,045 --> 00:32:19,485 Speaker 1: Church is our producer and story editor. Audio editing and 536 00:32:19,525 --> 00:32:24,765 Speaker 1: designed by Jonathan Sleep, mix engineer Glenn Mattulo audio mixing 537 00:32:24,805 --> 00:32:29,165 Speaker 1: and Love by Tunewelders. Executive producers Brandon Barr and Else 538 00:32:29,325 --> 00:32:32,525 Speaker 1: Crowley for School of Humans and Connell Byrne and Chuck 539 00:32:32,565 --> 00:32:36,845 Speaker 1: Bryant for How Stuff Works. Our field producer is James Morrison. 540 00:32:37,325 --> 00:32:42,045 Speaker 1: Our researcher is Sandy Klosterman. Themon original score by Ben 541 00:32:42,085 --> 00:32:48,125 Speaker 1: Solee available wherever you get your music. To dig into 542 00:32:48,165 --> 00:32:52,805 Speaker 1: the investigation, please visit Helen goonepodcast dot com or follow 543 00:32:52,885 --> 00:33:05,685 Speaker 1: us on social media. School of Humans z