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Speaker 1: M from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl ill

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Speaker 1: two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers

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Speaker 1: to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you

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Speaker 1: were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands

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Speaker 1: of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the

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Speaker 1: backs of diamond eyed school children who grew into hymnals

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Speaker 1: recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments

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Speaker 1: out of the windows of restored Alchemedo chariots. To keep

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Speaker 1: the warmth of their blood. Be wise, be smart, being black,

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Speaker 1: Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of

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Speaker 1: jim see. King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife,

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Speaker 1: wife told her daughter, and daughter told the as this is.

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Speaker 1: And the ancestors told me that you would come to

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Speaker 1: give wisdom thousands. They said you would come Dropping Dropping

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Speaker 1: the Gym. Welcome back to another episode of The Dropping

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Speaker 1: Gym's podcast. I'm Debbie Brown. This is the show where

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Speaker 1: we like to settle into a soft place to land,

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Speaker 1: to unpack ourselves, to grab new tools for the journey,

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Speaker 1: and to really expand our consciousness for our highest good.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is gonna be so doubt oh my gosh. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So in the pandemic, I had a chance to be

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Speaker 1: connected with an absolutely brilliant, amazing, pioneering woman in a

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Speaker 1: mental health space, and we had a chance to be

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Speaker 1: on a panel together, which then led to a podcast

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Speaker 1: and led to me just really loving and enjoying so

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Speaker 1: much that she offers the world. And today we are

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Speaker 1: ready to dive deep, deep, deep in a way that

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Speaker 1: helps empower us to make better choices and to have

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Speaker 1: lives that feel really nourishing, really full, and deeply connected

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Speaker 1: to the community that we're aligned with. Today's guest is

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Speaker 1: Dr Joy Harden Bradford. Dr Joy Harder and Bradford is

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist, speaker, founder and CEO of Therapy for

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Speaker 1: Black Girls, and hosts of its widely popular mental health podcast.

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Speaker 1: Her work focuses on making mental health topics more relevant

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Speaker 1: and accessible for Black women, and she specializes in creating

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Speaker 1: spaces for them to have fuller and healthier relationships with

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Speaker 1: themselves and others. She is currently writing her first book,

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Speaker 1: Sisterhood Heels, set to release summer tree. Dr Joy exists

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Speaker 1: at the intersection of psychology and pop culture or it

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Speaker 1: is always an honor and a joy to be in

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Speaker 1: conversation with you. Please welcome to the show, Dr Joy,

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Speaker 1: Harden Bradford, Thank you so much for having me, Debbie.

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Speaker 1: Such an honor, Dr Joy. I mean, I feel like

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Speaker 1: I have yet to have the honor of breathing the

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Speaker 1: same air as you. But I feel like we've been

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Speaker 1: so connected since the top of the pandemic, you know that.

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Speaker 1: I just remember kind of that moment where I think

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Speaker 1: for many of us, it clicked on of I have

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Speaker 1: I have more tools to offer in this very scary

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Speaker 1: moment for so many How are you? Oh, I am

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Speaker 1: hanging in there, hanging in there, m M yeah, I

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Speaker 1: feel like it is, you know, really best I kind

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Speaker 1: of think about it, just kind of putting one foot

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Speaker 1: in front of the other. Um, you know, because even

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Speaker 1: though I mean, we're not out of the pandemic right

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Speaker 1: despite would you know, many would maybe I was believe, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's still a lot going on, and you know,

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Speaker 1: just on top of the pandemic, there's just so many

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Speaker 1: other things happening in the world. Um, and you know, personally,

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Speaker 1: I'm also completing my first book right now, So I

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Speaker 1: just feel like there's just been so much chaos and

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Speaker 1: everything going on, So putting one foot in front of

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Speaker 1: the other and kind of holding on is how I'm

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Speaker 1: doing right now. You know. Thank you for that transparency,

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Speaker 1: because speaking to that, I think something that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, um might easily assume, especially with someone like yourself,

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Speaker 1: that oh, you you don't feel any of this, you

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Speaker 1: know there. I think for a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: start on the path, there's this assumption that you'll get

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Speaker 1: to a point where everything will feel good all the time.

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Speaker 1: And you know, that's one of the biggest questions people

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Speaker 1: kind of aim towards me just in my regular life.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, so, what do you consider a challenge?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh no, No, every day is challenging.

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Speaker 1: Life is profoundly challenging. I think for me, it's just

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Speaker 1: the reaction or how long it feels like a personal

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Speaker 1: experience shifts and it's different. I'm able to come out

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Speaker 1: of things quicker, or I'm able to hold more neutrality,

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Speaker 1: or just have tools so that I'm able to come

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Speaker 1: back to myself sooner. Um, what does that mean for

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Speaker 1: you when you say you're hanging in there. As someone

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Speaker 1: that is a leading mental health professional, Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: appreciate that debby, because you know, I do think that

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Speaker 1: there is sometimes that um misconception right that you know,

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Speaker 1: because we are healing professionals or helping professionals, um, that

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Speaker 1: we are not impacted. But that could not be further

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Speaker 1: from the truth. Um. You know. So a lot of

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about in terms of hanging in there

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Speaker 1: is like keeping up with my own mental health, which

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Speaker 1: involves weekly sessions with my therapist. Um, you know, because

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Speaker 1: I definitely feel like there has just been so much

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Speaker 1: anxiety for me in the pandemic, um, just around you know,

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Speaker 1: keeping myself and my family safe and what does this mean?

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Speaker 1: And is it okay to travel? And you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean it just feels like there has been a lot,

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Speaker 1: and so therapy has been incredibly grounding for me during

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Speaker 1: this period of the pandeming, but also in writing the

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Speaker 1: book because I feel like, you know, this has been

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Speaker 1: a stretch for me professionally, right, Like it's my first book.

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Speaker 1: It's a new thing that I had not done, um,

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Speaker 1: And so with any new thing, there's like all these

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Speaker 1: new challenges and like, oh, I didn't know that that

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Speaker 1: was hiding in that corner, right, And so having me

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Speaker 1: having my therapist to talk about all of those things,

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Speaker 1: which has just been very, very grounding and helpful for me. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to dive into talking about this book

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Speaker 1: that comes out. But one thing I'm really curious about,

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Speaker 1: you know, as as you're speaking to especially the way

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Speaker 1: you were showing up for yourself and for millions of people,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the midst of the pandemic, did anything

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Speaker 1: shift about the way you relate to what you do

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Speaker 1: because I can imagine you're under duress as a being,

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Speaker 1: as a human, as a woman and with her own

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Speaker 1: life needs, responsibilities, and you have to show up at

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Speaker 1: such a high level for those that are coming to you.

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Speaker 1: Did anything start to shift or were there any observations

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Speaker 1: about that time. That's such a good question, Debby. So

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Speaker 1: I think, like you kind of alluded to in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: like in the very beginning of the pandemic, it felt

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Speaker 1: like there was a huge need for people who do

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Speaker 1: the kinds of things that we do, right like this

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Speaker 1: healing helping, Like Okay, how do we ground ourselves and

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Speaker 1: make sense at this moment? And so in the beginning

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Speaker 1: there were all these requests of course, which is how

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Speaker 1: you are not connected. Initially was a panel for somebody, right, um,

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Speaker 1: and you know there are all these requests for like

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Speaker 1: come teach our group like skills to manage this, and

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Speaker 1: come do this and that, and so initially I think

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Speaker 1: it felt like, oh, Okay, well I can do this

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Speaker 1: because I'm home, right, Like I'm not even having to

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Speaker 1: travel anywhere to do these things. But I think a

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Speaker 1: couple of months into it, I I really begin to

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Speaker 1: feel burned out because even though I'm like doing these

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Speaker 1: presentations and things from home, like, I'm still like on right,

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Speaker 1: and so so there's still a lot that I'm offering.

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Speaker 1: And so I think I had kind of fooled myself

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Speaker 1: into thinking, like, oh, this doesn't feel as strenuous as

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Speaker 1: my schedule was before when I was you know, in

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Speaker 1: a different city a couple of times a month and

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Speaker 1: you know, really kind of on the road. And so

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Speaker 1: one I think it really caused me to like re

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Speaker 1: reimagined like what busy felt like. So it didn't feel

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Speaker 1: busy in the same way, but it was still you know,

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Speaker 1: like extending myself in like holding space for people who

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Speaker 1: are all afraid, right, like we're all just trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out what's happening, And so I think it really

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Speaker 1: led me to reimagine, like, Okay, you still have to

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Speaker 1: slow down, right, Like you still can't just be going, going, going,

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Speaker 1: even if it's just in your bedroom doing these presentations.

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Speaker 1: And then I think the next thing though, is that

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Speaker 1: it also led me to having a much deeper appreciation

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Speaker 1: for the work that I do, um, because I do

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Speaker 1: think during the pandemic and I don't even think we

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Speaker 1: have reached like the peak of the mental health concerns

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Speaker 1: and issues that we're going to have to have as

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Speaker 1: people kind of settle out of like what is this

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Speaker 1: trauma we've all experienced? Right, And so I think it

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Speaker 1: has led me to also have a much deeper appreciation

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Speaker 1: for the work that I do, and a much more

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Speaker 1: um you know, like wanting to be protective of it

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Speaker 1: because it's going to be needed, right, so, so really

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Speaker 1: trying to pace myself so that when there is maybe

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Speaker 1: the greatest need, I still have something left to offer. Ah,

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Speaker 1: when I tell you, Dr Joy, the way I relate

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Speaker 1: to everything that you just said, I think myself and

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Speaker 1: and for for some others that I've spoken to. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of the people that were the healers

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Speaker 1: and the helpers um in that moment in time, we're

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Speaker 1: kind of just settling into, like I I feel with

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Speaker 1: my body, I'm just settling into what two years of

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Speaker 1: that felt like. Because when I really look back at it,

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Speaker 1: I spent the pandemic in my house, working more than

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Speaker 1: I've ever worked, and I was showing up, and you

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Speaker 1: know it, it did feel like there was ease to

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Speaker 1: it because I could, you know, have a dress top,

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Speaker 1: but have my pajama bottoms or you know, you feel

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Speaker 1: comfortable because you're with your things and I have, you know,

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Speaker 1: my favorite things in the fridge within reach, and you know,

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Speaker 1: so there was this comfort in this holding. But I

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Speaker 1: look back and I said, Wow, in the pandemic, I

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Speaker 1: facilitated all of this healing work. And I was in

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Speaker 1: the midst of a divorce, and I was raising a

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Speaker 1: child who was two years old, and and and I

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Speaker 1: was in a pandemic too, you know. And it's just

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Speaker 1: been really interesting seeing the gifts but also really seeing

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Speaker 1: the fatigue of that. And I think it's just starting

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Speaker 1: to come online for some of us as the world

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Speaker 1: quote unquote gets back to normal whatever that means. Whatever means,

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, you are in the midst of writing your

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Speaker 1: first book, Dr Joy, and when I have a chance

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Speaker 1: to kind of read up on what it was about,

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Speaker 1: I feel so excited because this conversation your book let

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Speaker 1: me start by saying, is called Sisterhood Heels and it's

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Speaker 1: set to release summer. That title, Sisterhood Heels is so powerful,

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Speaker 1: and I think we are in the midst of creating

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Speaker 1: an entirely new template for what friendship can look like,

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Speaker 1: and especially friendship among women and Black women. There seems

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Speaker 1: to be this evolution in the air, this new understanding

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Speaker 1: of emotional intelligence that people are trying to connect to.

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Speaker 1: So what is this book about? Tell me that thing? Excited?

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Speaker 1: I feel like saying, need to chat with you about

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Speaker 1: this debby, because I've also heard you talk about this,

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Speaker 1: so I know that this is something that's important to

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Speaker 1: you as well. Um you know, but when I think

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Speaker 1: about like who we have been as black women, and

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Speaker 1: like what our history and the country has been and

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Speaker 1: in the world, a lot of our surviving and thriving

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Speaker 1: is connected to one another. And I think I have

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Speaker 1: seen that even more so in the pandemic right just around,

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Speaker 1: like mutual aid exchanges and um, you know, offering what

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Speaker 1: you have to your community and to your neighbors and

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Speaker 1: all of those kinds of things. And so to me

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Speaker 1: it is crystal clear, as it always has been, that

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Speaker 1: to get through this thing called life, it has to

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Speaker 1: be together, that we need to do this thing together.

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Speaker 1: And so the book is really all about a lot

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Speaker 1: of my experience has been in facilitating group therapy, and

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Speaker 1: so the book is really about the lessons and things

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Speaker 1: that I have learned from group therapy that can also

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Speaker 1: help us in our individual sisterhoods. So how do we

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Speaker 1: pay attention to the different dyning amics that happened in

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Speaker 1: sisterhoods and the changes and if unfortunately a sisterhood has

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Speaker 1: to end, how do you navigate that in a way

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Speaker 1: that's as compassionate and kind as possible. Mm hmmm mmmm Okay,

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Speaker 1: take my money. Wow, God, this is so needed. This

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Speaker 1: is so needed, And to what you said, you know,

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Speaker 1: a moment ago, this is so important to me and

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Speaker 1: it's something especially as it relates to boundaries with people

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Speaker 1: and how we can have boundaries with kindness and compassion

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Speaker 1: that a friendship kind of gently falling off. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to be beef. We we can still think fondly

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Speaker 1: of each other and just still move forward with our lives.

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Speaker 1: Like these are things that haven't been naturally kind of

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Speaker 1: shared with so many of us or role models in

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Speaker 1: any way. I would love to start by grounding this

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Speaker 1: and having, especially for everyone listening, Dr Joy, what would

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Speaker 1: be what would you consider to be a healthy dynamic,

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Speaker 1: a healthy template a friendship? What should healthy friendship feel like,

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Speaker 1: look like, be experienced as That's a big question. Um.

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Speaker 1: So the first thing that comes to mind for me

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Speaker 1: is reciprocal. Right, So it should feel like there is

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Speaker 1: space for everybody in the circle to kind of feel

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Speaker 1: like they are getting their needs met but also meeting

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Speaker 1: the needs of other people. Um. And I think when

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Speaker 1: you talk about boundaries like you just did, that is

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Speaker 1: where we often see that not happening. Right. So sometimes

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Speaker 1: there are certain friends who are kind of stepping up

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Speaker 1: a lot, and then there is no space or other

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Speaker 1: people are not really kind of doing their part. So

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Speaker 1: the first thing is reciprocal. Um. I also think that

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Speaker 1: it is a space where everybody feels celebrated. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: so when we think about a circle, like there is

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Speaker 1: no one part of a circle that is like bigger

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Speaker 1: or stronger, like we all come together to make the circle.

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Speaker 1: And so when I think about healthy friendship, I think

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Speaker 1: about a space where everybody feels so abrated and you

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Speaker 1: are able to have your moment, but it doesn't diminish

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Speaker 1: my moment or what can happen for me. Um So,

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Speaker 1: a space where everybody really feels celebrated, and also a

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Speaker 1: space where conflict can be resolved in healthy way. So

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Speaker 1: I think when people here conflict, they often want to

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Speaker 1: run in the opposite direction. But conflict is natural and normal,

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Speaker 1: like it just means we maybe disagree on some things,

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Speaker 1: and conflict actually can make your relationship stronger. But what

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Speaker 1: really deteriorates our relationships is an avoidance of the conflict,

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Speaker 1: Like we don't want to have the hard conversations, we

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Speaker 1: don't want to save a thing, we don't want to

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Speaker 1: address the elephant in the room, and it actually makes

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Speaker 1: our relationships weaker. Um So, I think healthy friendships also

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Speaker 1: involved an ability to really handle conflict. Oh okay, hold on,

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Speaker 1: because I already wrote I wrote some notes. I want

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Speaker 1: to go back the first. The first the first pillar

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Speaker 1: that you spoke to was the word reciprocal. What is

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Speaker 1: that definition? And in relationship I found and I had

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Speaker 1: this clip that that a lot of people saw last

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Speaker 1: year where I was saying I'm not available for anything

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Speaker 1: that's not mutually beneficial. And you know, I think everyone's vocabulary,

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Speaker 1: the way they relate to words is different, so so

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Speaker 1: many got it. But then some people are like, mutually beneficial,

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Speaker 1: so someone has to do something for you back, and

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, okay, so instead of mutually beneficial,

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Speaker 1: let's use the term mutually supportive, let's use the term reciprocal.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people when they hear those words,

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Speaker 1: they have this idea of more of a monetary exchange

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Speaker 1: or something that is like you did this check, now

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Speaker 1: I will do this for you. And you know, something

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Speaker 1: that I've tried to share with people is like even

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Speaker 1: gratitude as reciprocity. You know, even something like a heartfelt

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Speaker 1: gratitude and appreciation for what I'm giving feels reciprocal to

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Speaker 1: me because there is something for me in it as well.

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Speaker 1: There is some thing that fills me, you know, what

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Speaker 1: is reciprocal in in the relationship sense. M I think

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Speaker 1: of it in the simplest form, It's like a natural

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Speaker 1: kind of given, take and you're right, Like, it's not

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Speaker 1: a score card. It's not like a tally, like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I did two things, and so now next week you

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Speaker 1: have to do two things for me. I think it

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Speaker 1: is more of a feeling of being like in a

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Speaker 1: relationship where you know that they have your back and

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Speaker 1: you also have theirs, right, So it doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: mean I, you know, did five things nice for you,

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Speaker 1: and so now you gotta do seven. It is more like,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like if you called on them in

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Speaker 1: your time of need, they would be there? And I

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Speaker 1: think it's important to think about, you know, like we

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Speaker 1: all are human, right, and so there's all kinds of

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Speaker 1: things that are often happening in our own lives. So

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Speaker 1: there may not be times where we can be there

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Speaker 1: for a friend in the ways that we want to.

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Speaker 1: But I think when you look at the overall picture,

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Speaker 1: the overall history of a friendship, does it feel like

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Speaker 1: more often than not, this is somebody who you know

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Speaker 1: is in your corner, who you can call when times

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Speaker 1: are tough and vice versa. Right, Like, it should should

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Speaker 1: not feel like a one sided kind of thing where

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Speaker 1: you're the one always making the calls, always texting, always

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Speaker 1: doing the planning, like it should feel like everybody has

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Speaker 1: a part in this friendship, and everybody's part doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be the same kind of part, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think um in some friendship dynamics, it's like, well, I

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Speaker 1: threw a big party for you. I wanted a big

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Speaker 1: party too, and it's like, but are you the are

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Speaker 1: you the person that's really good at that? Does that

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Speaker 1: person know how to do that? Did you tell them

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Speaker 1: you wanted that? You know, I think it's it's as

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Speaker 1: we expand this conversation, it's so important to know that

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Speaker 1: we should be bringing our strengths to our friendship. We

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Speaker 1: should be bringing our gifts to our friendship, which means

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Speaker 1: we'll all be kind of adding to it in so

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Speaker 1: many different ways. You know, I want to touch on

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Speaker 1: something you just said that because I think this is important.

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Speaker 1: So the idea that I threw you a big party

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Speaker 1: and so then I expected that you would also throw

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Speaker 1: me a party, was that expectation actually voiced. So that

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Speaker 1: is one of those things that I think also gets

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Speaker 1: in the way of us having really healthy, full of

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Speaker 1: relationships is that we feel like friendships should be natural, right,

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Speaker 1: Like it kind of feels like, oh, we go to

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Speaker 1: school together, you know, in our childhood, that is how

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Speaker 1: we become friends. Right when you are grown up, you

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Speaker 1: have to work a little harder at that. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: what what is often missing is that we don't learn

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Speaker 1: that we have to actually voice those expectations and the

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Speaker 1: same way we would do in romantic relationships, it's important

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Speaker 1: to do that in in platonic friendships as well in

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Speaker 1: other relationships. So I think that unvoiced expectation and the

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Speaker 1: idea that they should just know that you wanted that

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Speaker 1: to happen, Well, how would they know if you didn't

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Speaker 1: tell them? And it doesn't make them a bad friend

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Speaker 1: because they didn't do it, because you didn't let them

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Speaker 1: know that that was actually an expectation. Wow, wow, Wow,

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Speaker 1: everybody listening, and I want you to sit in the

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Speaker 1: first second, take a friend, See how that feels, See

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Speaker 1: where you land and that equation. Just notice it. Wow

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Speaker 1: for for those listening, because I think, you know, especially

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Speaker 1: for for generations that came before. Right now, we've done

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Speaker 1: an immense amount of unpacking major major consciousness blocks and

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Speaker 1: concepts over just the last handful of years. Right we

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00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 1: have doven into women, um, you know, sexuality. We have

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Speaker 1: dived into race deeper than we've ever gone. Multiple cultures

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Speaker 1: and that experience, especially within America, there have been so

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Speaker 1: many unpackings in a short time. We're all kind of

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Speaker 1: processing that. And I think you know something that many

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Speaker 1: are coming to notice is a lot of us grew

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Speaker 1: up in communities and households where the adults were emotionally

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Speaker 1: immature and there was just not a role modeling of

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Speaker 1: behavior that can lead you in a life where you

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Speaker 1: feel like a healthy, functioning adult that can meet your

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Speaker 1: own needs. Um. So, I think you know a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that are even in friendships and communities that

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Speaker 1: they do love, they don't know anything different. It may

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Speaker 1: not be in the plan for them to uproot and

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Speaker 1: find a new tribe. Are there ways to kind of

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Speaker 1: bring some healing and to upgrade the way we are

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Speaker 1: in friendships with each other without having to find new friends?

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, I mean yeah, that's basically the premise of

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Speaker 1: the book is is this idea that you know, and

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Speaker 1: you're right, like a lot of us have not come

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Speaker 1: from homes where that was role model for us. And

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Speaker 1: you know, generations and the generation before them, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of what they had to do was really survival based, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: so there were decisions that they made that unfortunately impacted

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Speaker 1: us in some ways that you know, didn't really foster

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Speaker 1: our emotions, but in a lot of ways, it was

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Speaker 1: what they felt like they had to do. But I

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Speaker 1: do think because we are having these kinds of conversations

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Speaker 1: right now, it provides an excellent operace munity for us

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Speaker 1: to be able to do that healing work with one another. Right,

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Speaker 1: So can I say to you, as my sister, out

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Speaker 1: that hurt and that doesn't mean that the friendship ends.

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Speaker 1: It just means that this is now an opportunity for

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Speaker 1: us to talk about it and how can I hold

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Speaker 1: you accountable? How can you learn from that situation? And

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Speaker 1: did not mean that you're a bad person? Right, I

395
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Speaker 1: think we have to really look at our defensiveness and

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Speaker 1: how that often comes up when we've heard someone. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you're bad. It just means out

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Speaker 1: that hurt me and I want to talk about how

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Speaker 1: we can continue to be in relationship and you not

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Speaker 1: do that thing, or you not hurt me in that

401
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: same way in the future. So I think our sister

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Speaker 1: circle really provide an important opportunity for us to actually

403
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Speaker 1: do that healing work with one another. Wow. Wow, I'm

404
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: so excited for all of us this this time of

405
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Speaker 1: they're just being more space for vulnerability, and they're being

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Speaker 1: like space for being in practice with the things that

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Speaker 1: you just didn't know, you know. I feel like there

408
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: was and as much grace for those processes or they're

409
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: just weren't as many people trying to do it at

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Speaker 1: the same time previously. Yeah, and you you use a

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Speaker 1: very important word there, Davy, practice right, Like we are

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Speaker 1: all really just practicing being human, like there is no perfection.

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Speaker 1: And as many you know, workshops that we go to

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Speaker 1: and books we read and podcasts we listen to, like,

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Speaker 1: we're all just practicing. And so I think it is

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Speaker 1: really important for us to be grace gracious with one another. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I think it it had there has to be

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Speaker 1: some limits to that, right, So you don't want to be, um,

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00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: extending so much grace that you're actually betraying yourself, right

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Speaker 1: you know. So I think that there's sometimes work that

421
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: we need to do individually, um, that that needs to

422
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: happen before we're really able to kind of be in

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Speaker 1: circles in full ways. Um. So I think that again,

424
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Speaker 1: back to our earlier conversation around boundaries, like you can't

425
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Speaker 1: continue to let somebody kind of overstep your boundaries and

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Speaker 1: and not kind of redraw them and say, Okay, I

427
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 1: would like to still being reallyationship with you, but this

428
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: is what it looks like. So maybe that looks like

429
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 1: less access, Maybe that looks like, you know, just more

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00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: spread out you know when we get together. But I

431
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: don't think that you want to offer so much grace

432
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 1: that you are then betraying yourself. Thank you for saying that,

433
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: because the boundaried grace is what we're after. That passion

434
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: extended to self first then others is what we're after.

435
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: M Yeah, and I think you know giving you know, again,

436
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,479
Speaker 1: back to our earlier conversation about just how training and

437
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: how much has happened in the past couple of years.

438
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: I think that that is also something that impacts our relationships,

439
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: is that we are trying to like offer with not

440
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: from the overflow. Right, So the idea is that you

441
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,959
Speaker 1: re feel yourself so that you are able to be

442
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: in relationship with others from your overflow. But if you

443
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: are all tapped out, that maybe why you're a little

444
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: cranky with your friends. Or where you're feeling like, oh,

445
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to answer this call right, So it

446
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: does really have it. It goes back to really making

447
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: sure that we're taking care of ourselves and doing the

448
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: kinds of things that we need to do so that

449
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: we can actually be in healthy relationship to other people.

450
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: Drop One of the things, UM, I was finding that

451
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: I was getting a certain kind of comment back in

452
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: relation to anytime I put up content around friendships, and

453
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: there was, UM, I'll give you a scenario, and I

454
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: would love to know if you would walk us through

455
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: what this process is. So some people that are in

456
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: friendship for for many, friendship is your created family. You

457
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 1: know that that is maybe your safe splace, safe space

458
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: for the first time, but it also sometimes become becomes

459
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,959
Speaker 1: the space where you project everything that happened to you

460
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: prior to the friendship, and it becomes a space where

461
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: you kind of have toddler childlike Brady behavior that maybe

462
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: you weren't allowed to have with your parents. And so

463
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: I think, you know, something that people were saying to

464
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: me is, well, you know, I tried to talk to

465
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: this friend about this, but you know they don't even

466
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: treat the X that dog them out the way they

467
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: go off on me, or they treat the guy they

468
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: only dated for a month with more grace or more understanding.

469
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: But there's all this expectation on me. What is that

470
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: dynamic when we are projecting on other people some of

471
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: that original wounding? What is that? Damny? I feel like

472
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: you have like an early copy of this book, and

473
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: you clearly do not, because there is no early copy

474
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: of the book, yet I would like one and are connected.

475
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: So so what you're talking about, and again why I

476
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: think group therapy can be very powerful. What you're which

477
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: you're basically talking about. There is a term in group

478
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: therapy called the recapitulation of the family unit. And so

479
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 1: what often happens in a group of strangers of if

480
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: we're talking about group therapy, is that there will be

481
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 1: members of the group who will pull things from you

482
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: that remind you of your original family unit. So you

483
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: find yourself acting out towards a group member as though

484
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: they are your mother, and clearly it's not about them.

485
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: It is what they have arisen and awoken in you,

486
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: and in our sister circles, in our friendship circles, the

487
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: same kind of thing happens, like it is still a

488
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: group dynamic. And so when you find yourself acting out

489
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: or um, maybe wanting to be brady so to speak,

490
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: or you know, being super selfish, it is very likely

491
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: that what's happening is that some of those childhood wounds

492
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: or childhood areas that have not been addressed are present

493
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: and you actually don't even know it. And that's something

494
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: that often is playing out on the subconscious, So we

495
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: don't always know this is what's happened. And so I

496
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: think being able to have some of this language like hey,

497
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: they aren't actually reacting to me, They are reacting to

498
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: the thing that my presence has now awoken in them

499
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: that they have not dealt with. And so I think

500
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 1: being able to again have honest conversations, you know. And

501
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: the more we know about our friends and the more

502
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: we know about their history, it is sometimes easier to

503
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: kind of see that. Um. But but I don't want

504
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: us to kind of try to play therapists with our friends, right.

505
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: It's not about us trying to do the work of,

506
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: you know, therapizing and psychoanalyzing our friends. But I do

507
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: think it can be helpful to be able to call

508
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: call attention to like, hey, I wonder what's going on here, Like,

509
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm noticing this dynamic where it feels like you're able

510
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: to extend grace to other people and it doesn't feel

511
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: like you're able to do that with me. I wonder

512
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: if you've noticed that, right, And so really just kind

513
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: of calling attention to these things, because of course they

514
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: have been like we are with these people, like you said,

515
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: they are our creative family, and what that means is

516
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: that we then create some of those same dynamics that

517
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: we had in our families origin who who Uh this book,

518
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is gonna be so powerful again.

519
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this title and I hopefully by the

520
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: time this airs you can get that pre order on

521
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: Sisterhood Heels. It will be out this summer three. Dr

522
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: joy Hard and Bradford. God, this book is so needed

523
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: right now, and I'm so excited for everyone that picks

524
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: it up, because understanding this changes your life. Understanding this

525
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: brings the ease that everyone is talking about. Ease isn't

526
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: just you know, like this is a moment where so

527
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: many of us are reclaiming ease rest but what that

528
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: means is like really doing the work to clean up

529
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: your life to pack in the empty places more love.

530
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: So that eases is really the natural state, not the avoidance. UM.

531
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: And this book we we need to clean up our lives.

532
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: We need to edit the intimate facets of our lives,

533
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: our friendships, our households, how we show up in the world,

534
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: and our work. Ah. So, Debby, I want to I

535
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: want to turn the table a little bit because I

536
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: would love to have this conversation with you. So one

537
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: of the things in doing the research for the book,

538
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: but one of the things that kept coming up was

539
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: how friendship dynamics changed after somebody got engaged, are married,

540
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: and so you know, it didn't always. I think the

541
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: common thing people think is like, oh, somebody was jealous,

542
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: and so you know, they I got I got married first,

543
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: and so then they got jealous and in the friendship ended. UM.

544
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering in some of the posts that you have,

545
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, put up around friendship, has this conversation come

546
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: up for you or do you have personal experience or

547
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: thoughts about like why that dynamic changes when there has

548
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: been like the presence of an engagement or a wedding. Oh,

549
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: this is spicy, Dr Joydan And this is It's so

550
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: funny because just this past weekend, I was hanging out

551
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: with some friends and I was talking about my experience

552
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: with some of my bridesmaids when I got married, and

553
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: it was so interesting because there was one person who

554
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: is no longer in my life. It was it was

555
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: it was shocking yet not you know, um, but it was.

556
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: It was fascinating to watch and confusing. Where I remember

557
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: I got engaged and all of a sudden I found

558
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: out way after the wedding all the ways they were

559
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: trying to sabotage the wedding, like not spending out invites

560
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: to things like not inviting people to things that I

561
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: asked because they had a personal issue with them, which

562
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: created a rift for me and that person. UM. And

563
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: I've even heard from people, you know, situations where someone

564
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: decided to get pregnant just because they wanted to have

565
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,239
Speaker 1: something going on to talk about while their friend was

566
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: in their new marriage, and it's it's fascinating. It's absolutely

567
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: fascinating what comes up. And I was getting a ton

568
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,479
Speaker 1: of those responses of the main way that people were

569
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: um responding with this dynamic doctor joy was around just

570
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: feeling like they had lost something more than anything like

571
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: it was more of a feeling of I've been abandoned

572
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: or I won't have my needs met anymore. Um. And

573
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: you know, to my ear, that also sounds like some

574
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: of those deeper woundings, those projections, those kind of throwing

575
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: your needs and worth on someone else. Um. But that

576
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: was the leading thing. People just feeling sad, feeling like

577
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: now they'd have less m Yeah, I completely agree with that.

578
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: That is my assessment as well, is that oftentimes what

579
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: happens in those situations is that grief is triggered, right,

580
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: and we don't think about it as grief, because one

581
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: we often think about grief only is like the death

582
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: of a loved one, right, But there's all these other

583
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: ways that we experience grief. And I think changing changes

584
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: in a relationship that is super important to us. Even

585
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: though it's a happy time maybe for our friend, I

586
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: think we have real trouble, like Jex supposing that to

587
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: like out, I feel like now I'm going to lose them, right,

588
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: and so I feel like we need to do a

589
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: better job of having conversations around like, I'm really happy

590
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: for you, but I'm also a little worried about what

591
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: this changes for us and like sad about the fact

592
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: that our dynamic won't of course be able to be

593
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: the same as it was, you know. So I think

594
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: all of this acting out that we sometimes see is

595
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: really a grief response that people just don't recognize and

596
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: don't have the language for. Yeah, and then sometimes for

597
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: some people that that thing kicks in where you say, well,

598
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: let me just think this ship because then at least

599
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: it's my choice. Yep, you know you're gonna get in

600
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: front of it, you know. So, so that is it

601
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: was my decision. What what do you think of the

602
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: story I told about the Bridesmaid? Yeah, I mean I

603
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: definitely think, you know, there was clearly something going on there,

604
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: and I wonder if you saw signs, like looking back,

605
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: were there are things that you recognize even before you

606
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: got engaged that indicated like something maybe a little off

607
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,919
Speaker 1: or something kind of feels unsettled about this person, you know? Yes,

608
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: And and that was a lot of my work, um,

609
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: and in listening to my intuition, Like I have a

610
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: very particular style of integrity that I moved in the

611
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: world with and I really believe in spiritual hygiene, and

612
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: I think that good choice making compassionate choice making. It's

613
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: incredibly important to my life. So I used to get

614
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: those kind of worlds blurred where I felt like I

615
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: had to. When I saw people that weren't in integrity,

616
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: it was because they just didn't know and I needed

617
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: to show or I needed to help. So I am

618
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: a super super reformed um vixer and people pleaser. I'm

619
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: the person that you still want to do everyone's work

620
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: for them and just no, no, no, but look read

621
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: this book and didn't it and I was taking it

622
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: all on and gratefully that is no longer my life. Um,

623
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, when I look back at that friendship,

624
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: absolutely and we had been childhood friends, and I saw

625
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: those traits in that person. I remember clearly having making

626
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: mental notes way back at ten, noticing how they were

627
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of treating people or making things about them, and

628
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: I just let it go on for way too long,

629
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: and then I saw the biggest you know, because when

630
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: things aren't super affecting you, when they're more like kind

631
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: of tiny irritations, it's just kind of like, yeah, that's

632
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: them being them. But when you keep that dynamic in

633
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: in your life, when they have the opportunity to do

634
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: it at a higher stake, they will, and so you

635
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: need a curb it when you first notice it. It

636
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: is so important. M Yeah, and who knows, you know

637
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: what kind of abandonment kinds of you know, his three

638
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: there me have been you know, I don't know of

639
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: course this person um or what got activated, but cluely

640
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: something got activated with your engagement, which then led to

641
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 1: all of this behavior, kind of really stepping up a match. Yeah,

642
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: lasting piece, lasting piece to all evolved. Um I have

643
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: a very specific question for you. This is I'm so curious.

644
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: You know, Dr Joy therapy for Black girls has been

645
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: such a leader in the mental health space. One of

646
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: the one of the you know, data points around therapy

647
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: for black women is that only five percent of us

648
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: therapists are black. Can you speak to the importance of

649
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: speaking with therapists that have the deeper understanding of your

650
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: cultural needs, but specifically some of the personality traits, um experiences,

651
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: and trauma that seemed to happen within particular communities. Um,

652
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 1: Is it isn't in portant to find someone that looks

653
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: like you or understands your experience to unpack yourself with. Yeah,

654
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: So I would say it is important if it feels

655
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: important to you, um, you know, because that won't necessarily

656
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: be like a qualifier for a lot of people, right,

657
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: But I do think, um, at least my experience has

658
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: been there for a lot of black women, that does

659
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: feel very very important because there are some things that

660
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: you just assume that another black woman will understand, right,

661
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: Like so when I think about like going through the

662
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: pandemic and then you know all of the continued racial injustice,

663
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, George Floyd being killed, Brianna Taylor being killed.

664
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: You know, there are ways that I think black women

665
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: took in those stories and experience those things that you know,

666
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: you just get right. And so if I came to

667
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 1: the session the week after finding out about Brianna Taylor,

668
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have to go into too much backstory

669
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: with my therapist because my therapist is also a black woman, um,

670
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: because there's some things that I know that she understands

671
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: because she's also a black woman in this country. So

672
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: I think for people who that is important, it is

673
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 1: absolutely okay to kind of change that, to to look

674
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: out that look for that in your search. But as

675
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: you mentioned, there are not that many of us, right,

676
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: and so what that means is that, you know, either

677
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: people end up on waiting lists or people will see

678
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: therapists who aren't necessarily black women. So that means me um,

679
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: that you see a black man or somebody else another

680
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 1: person of color. But what that means for other therapists

681
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: who are not black is that there are some work

682
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: that they need to do so that they are creating

683
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: conditions that are safe for black women to come into

684
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: therapy to unpack these kinds of things. So, you know,

685
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: there are lots of microaggressions and ruptures that happened with

686
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: non black therapists because there's this questioning of reality, right, like,

687
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: didn't that really happen in the way that you are

688
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: saying it? Or you know, now, tell me why you

689
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: would be so impacted by, you know, this thing that

690
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with you, right, Other therapists really

691
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: need to make sure that they are doing their own

692
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: work so that they're not perpetrating those kinds of things

693
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: that then make it difficult for people to even continue

694
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: to believe in therapy. You know. So because a lot

695
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: of our families, there's not a lot of history of

696
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, parents and grandparents and aunties and uncle's going

697
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: to therapy. A lot of times we are the first

698
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: ones who may be having that experience, and so if

699
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: we don't have a good experience, then that sometimes leaves

700
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: us feeling like, oh, this isn't actually helpful, This made

701
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: me feel worse. So why would I pay, you know,

702
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: somebody to go and do this thing. So I do

703
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: think it is if it feels important to you to

704
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: find a therapist who matches you in some way, it

705
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: is absolutely okay to do that. But I do think

706
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: that there are also a lot of therapists who may

707
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: not match you, right, And so I typically encourage people

708
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: to just be open to surprises, right, but not to

709
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, betray yourself again by like continuing in weeks

710
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: and weeks of therapy with somebody who's like perpetuating racism

711
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: against you. Absolutely not. There are some therapys who have

712
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: done their work. They have done um, you know, incredible

713
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: work working with other black women, and so they actually

714
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: may be a good match for you, but you might

715
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: not know that if you are not open to seeing

716
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: if somebody else might be a good match. Word dropping.

717
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: As people are looking for therapists, especially now because very gratefully,

718
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: for the first time ever there's this mass movement to

719
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: love yourself, to heal yourself, to get the tools that

720
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: you don't naturally have, and it is gorgeous. It's so exciting.

721
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,479
Speaker 1: And also for those that are coming to healing work

722
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: for the first time, something I speak to a lot

723
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: on this show. On this show, Dr Joy is taking

724
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: your time to research and um date a little bit

725
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: in this space, for lack of a better word, because

726
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: as with any other field, as within the other anything,

727
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: even with therapists, you have your extraordinary, you have your good,

728
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: you have your solid, you have your mediocre, and there

729
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: are therapists that are not good at what they do.

730
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: It is every This exists in every field and every

731
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: walk of life, high and low. So you can't just

732
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: think because someone has that title that that will be

733
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: your perfect fit easily or that will be enough. Um So,

734
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: any insight that you can share with everyone about really

735
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: how to gain deeper insight on if the therapist is

736
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: a good therapist quote unquote right, yeah, And I want

737
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: to take that a stuff further mean, because somebody can

738
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: be a good therapist, but not a good therapist for you, right,

739
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: you know, because again, therapy is such a human relationship

740
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: so much of what actually is doing the work and

741
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 1: healing is the relationship that you have with your therapist.

742
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: And so somebody might be great, but they might just

743
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: not be a great fit for you. And it doesn't

744
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: mean that they're a bad therapist or that you're a

745
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: bad client. It just says something about the dynamic that

746
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: maybe it's just not what you need maybe in that

747
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: moment um. So I also use a lot of that

748
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: kind of dating language. Um, although of course their boundaries

749
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: in your therapeutic relationship, but it is usist like that's

750
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: not approgram we don't want to go there, but but

751
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: it is a series of kind of like getting to

752
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: know these people. So the great thing is that a

753
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: lot of therapists have a lot of information about themselves

754
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: out available to the public now. So um, many of

755
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: us have websites where you can learn more about our practice. Um,

756
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: a lot of therapists create content or you might find

757
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: YouTube videos or Instagram videos or ticktok's or you know,

758
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: Twitter posts that will give you a little bit of

759
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: an insight around how they speak. You know, because sometimes

760
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: therapists have a particular way of relating that you absolutely

761
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: know like, oh, this probably wouldn't work for me, and

762
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: you can probably get a sense of that from a

763
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: tick talk or from a YouTube video. Um, so doing

764
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: your research is really important. And then the other thing

765
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: is that a lot of therapists will give you like

766
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: a free ten to fifteen minute consultation to ask any

767
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: additional questions you have after you've done your research. Um,

768
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: but as therapists were also listening for whether we feel

769
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: like we would be a good therapist for you, right,

770
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: um you know. So the other thing that you want

771
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 1: to pay attention to is whether they actually have training

772
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: and expertise in the thing that you're coming for. Um.

773
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: You know, so you might find somebody's YouTube videos and think,

774
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 1: oh they are great, I would love to work with them,

775
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: But then they actually are not trained in the thing

776
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: or have additional expertise and the thing that you need,

777
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: and then that probably is not going to be a

778
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 1: helpful relationship because they may not know enough, um to

779
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: you know, to really help you through whatever your concern is.

780
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 1: So hopefully the therapist would tell you that right like, oh,

781
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, I love to work with you, but I

782
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: actually don't think that this is my area of expertise.

783
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: But let me give you some referral. So that's the

784
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: other thing about these consultations is that if we hear

785
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: you talking about something that we, you know, feel like, okay,

786
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: this is not my bag. Then I also have, you know,

787
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: a referral network of other colleagues who I think could

788
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: maybe do some great work for you, So then I

789
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: can maybe refer you to somebody else who could be

790
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: a better fit. And I typically tell people, you know,

791
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: sometimes you know pretty early on, like Okay, I really

792
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: feel like I'm going to be able to do some

793
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: good work with this person. But sometimes it takes a

794
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: little longer, right because you're trying to feel it out,

795
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: and like, Okay, who is this stranger? And I'm telling

796
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: them all of my business and they're not saying anything

797
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: about themselves. Um, but but I don't want people to

798
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 1: get like four months into therapy still questioning, right, So

799
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: even I think early on, even if you're not ready

800
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: to maybe share you know, some difficult things, or you're

801
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 1: not quite ready to to kind of take yourself there,

802
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: you can get a sense of whether this person is

803
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: going to help you to create an environment that will

804
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: allow you to get there. So there's nothing wrong with

805
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: like warming up and like, Okay, let me feel this

806
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,919
Speaker 1: out before I really dive in. But I think there's

807
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: should be some indications pretty early on that you feel

808
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: safe in the space. You feel comfortable, you don't feel

809
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: judged by this person, you don't feel like the need

810
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: to to withhold you know, like that it is often

811
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 1: a place that you look forward to. Now, Now, therapy

812
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: isn't always easy. I don't want you to hear that, like,

813
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: there will be some weeks that you absolutely like, oh,

814
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this, But but it should

815
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: feel more of a like, Okay, I'm afraid to do

816
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: the work, not I feel uncomfortable in this space. Yeah,

817
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: oh who who? You gave us so many tools, you know. Yes,

818
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: And because the thing that you don't want to do

819
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: is have now therapy be another container for the behavior

820
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: that you have done at other points in your life.

821
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 1: So don't go in there and perform. You don't need

822
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: to win them over, You don't need to get them

823
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: to like you. You don't you know, like, ah, this

824
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: is the space to try out your new self. Okay.

825
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: My last question, and this is this is actually more

826
00:45:55,239 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: of a personal question. So for choosing a therapist, Um,

827
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: if you are someone who is highly self aware, that

828
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: has done years and years of work and all different

829
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 1: kinds of therapy. What is the best way to court

830
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: a new therapist where you can say I don't need

831
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: to like start from scratch or is there a way

832
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: to kind of show up if you're someone that has

833
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: done therapy in the past, when looking for a new therapist,

834
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: to create some baseline of these are the themes I've

835
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: worked through. This is where I am now, this is

836
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 1: what I'd like to work towards. How you know, for

837
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: those that have kind of been in the therapy world

838
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: myself included for a while, and you're looking for something more,

839
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: but you don't want to have to start from the

840
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: getting to know you phase? What do you do? So

841
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: unfortunately having I don't know that there's a way to

842
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: get around the getting to know you do through it,

843
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 1: You're you're trying to skip the steps there. So every

844
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: new therapist is gonna want to have their own relationship

845
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: with you, right And and I hear this a lot,

846
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: you know, not necessarily just in the like, I've done

847
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 1: a lot of therapy and so I'm looking for something different.

848
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: But um, you know, people who maybe have worked with

849
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: the therapist for a while and feel like, Okay, I

850
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: don't I don't think I'm getting what I need anymore.

851
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: I need something different. They just don't want to have

852
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: to like explain all of that bad story anymore. And

853
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: I totally get that you don't necessarily need to do that. Um.

854
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: So one way around that, if you are interested, is

855
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: that you can sign a release with your old therapist

856
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: that allows them to give the new therapist records and

857
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: you know they can kind of look through and whatever. Um.

858
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: But the other thing to to keep in mind is

859
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: that you're not necessarily starting with a new therapist in

860
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: the same place that you did with the previous therapist. Right,

861
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 1: So if you now are wanting to work on more things,

862
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: you know, related to like advancing in your career and

863
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: you know whatever comes up there, you won't necessarily have

864
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: to talk about the same like issues related to your

865
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: childhood with this new therapist because that is not as pressing.

866
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: So any therapist that you are talking to is gonna

867
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: do what we call an enta where they're getting to

868
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: know a little bit more about you and what's bringing

869
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: you in. And of course, if you have had therapy before,

870
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: you're gonna they're probably gonna ask you, like, okay, tell

871
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: me a little bit about your previous experiences, what did

872
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: you like, maybe what didn't work. But they're not gonna

873
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,959
Speaker 1: necessarily take you digging back through all of those things

874
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: that you had to do before, because that's not what

875
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,919
Speaker 1: brings you in now. And maybe some of that will

876
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: come up, you know, as needed, but it's not where

877
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 1: you're gonna start. So it's not like you're gonna duplicate

878
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: what you've done with therapy um in the past. Um so,

879
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: But for people who are pretty therapy savvy and like

880
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: who have you know, done a lot of different kinds

881
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: of work, I think it could be helpful to find

882
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: therapists who practice in different kinds of ways. Um so.

883
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 1: As therapists, you know, we all kind of go through

884
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: general training, but a lot of us do additional training

885
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: and course work on top of like our graduate degree

886
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: to specialize in things. So you know, you will hear

887
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: a lot of therapist talk about um CBT kindnitive behavioral

888
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: therapy um E M d R, which is a therapy

889
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: kind of specifically helpful for or um traumatic experiences, but

890
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: but a lot there are also some therapists who practice

891
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: like psychoanalysis, UM more insight kind of work, and I

892
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: tend to think, UM that that kind of works, Like

893
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 1: the more insight driven work is maybe a good place

894
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 1: to kind of look for people who have done a

895
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: lot of therapy. So maybe you're not necessarily looking for

896
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: symptom reduction, you're looking more like, Okay, help me understand

897
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: these patterns, and you know, I don't quite feel like

898
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm relating to people in the way I want. Insight

899
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: driven work may be a better UM option there. And

900
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: group therapy so that is also something that a lot

901
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: of people have not tried that I think can be

902
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: incredible because there are insights and breakthroughs that you can

903
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: make in group therapy that it would take like months

904
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: to get to with your individual therapist, just because there

905
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: are more people, right like, there are more people for

906
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: you to interact with, and more people kind of you know,

907
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: awaken things in you. UM. So group therapy I think,

908
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: if you can find it is also another option for

909
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: people who maybe have done a lot of therapy. This

910
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: could be a different experience for you to kind of

911
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: gain some greater in sight. M I love that. And

912
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: it's also so powerful to watch someone being facilitated as

913
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 1: they're as they're working through something. You know, it gives

914
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: you kind of procedure for yourself for changes how you

915
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 1: relate in your in your relationships. Wow mm hmm, Dr Joy,

916
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: thank you. I am just I love being in conversation

917
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: with you. I had the pleasure of being on your

918
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: show Therapy for Black Girl podcast and I did a

919
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 1: meditation there. So anyone that is really loving this episode, um,

920
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 1: please check out that episode two and all the others

921
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: that Dr Joy does. Your new book, Sisterhood Heels is

922
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: set to release this coming summer. We need this, We

923
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: need this week. Thank you, Thank you so much. Always

924
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 1: a pleasure. Thank you so much. M M. Thank you

925
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: once again Dr Joy, Hard and Bradford for joining us

926
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 1: on this really really expansive episode. And just take a second,

927
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: you know, let's let's do a little soul work. Take

928
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: a second after this episode clicks off, before you kind

929
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: of jump into the rest of whatever you're doing. And

930
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: I want you to jest for your soul work this week.

931
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 1: I want you to start to notice, how do you

932
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: define the word friendship? How do you define the word

933
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 1: sisterhood or brotherhood? How do you uniquely define an experience

934
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: the word community and just allow that to kind of

935
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: go back and forth in your mind for the rest

936
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 1: of today, for tomorrow. You have a notebook nearby, maybe

937
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: drop those downs the words friendship, brotherhood, sisterhood, community, And

938
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: as you think of those words, I want you to

939
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: really challenge yourself to not just give it maybe the

940
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: top of mind definition and well, sisterhood it's a grouping

941
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: of women or community, you know, various people coming together.

942
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: Really think of what those words have looked like or

943
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: not in your life over the course of your entire life. So,

944
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: how did you experience friendship as a child, How did

945
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: you experience friendship as a teen, a young adult, someone

946
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 1: in your twenties and your thirties and your forties. How

947
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: did that word evolve? How did that experience evolve? How

948
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: was it felt by you? Get a little surgical with

949
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: the way that you're investigating these words, and do the

950
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: same thing with sisterhood. What are thoughts or noticings about

951
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: sisterhood at various stages of your life from childhood through now?

952
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: And then after you spent a few days letting that

953
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: kind of roll through your mind, let's take it to

954
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 1: another step. And I want you to think of what

955
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: all of those words terms mean to you now and

956
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: how you'd like to feel them or relate to them. So,

957
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: for instance, that words sisterhood, if that actually brings up

958
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 1: some charge, some disappointment, some pain from earlier stages in

959
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: your life, what is the way you'd like to know

960
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: that word now? What could that look like? Now? Opening

961
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: yourself to wider friendship and do that with each of

962
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: those words. What would you like to be your relationship

963
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: with friendship, sisterhood, their community. There's no right or wrong,

964
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: It is just your experience and your intention. Investigation is

965
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: how we get free. Thank you for listening. If you

966
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: have extra time today, take a second go to the

967
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: Apple app for podcasts and add a five star rating,

968
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: and if you have the time, write a little review.

969
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: I appreciated and big love to everyone that has shared.

970
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 1: They're already nomas day. Hey find me on social Let's

971
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: connect at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go

972
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're

973
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: listening to the show on Apple podcasts, please please please

974
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: don't forget to rate, review and subscribe and send this

975
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: episode to a friend. Dropping Jim's is the production of

976
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,720
Speaker 1: I heart Radio and the Black Effect Network. It's produced

977
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: by Jackie's and me, Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from

978
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

979
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Yeah,