1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential and sometimes controversialist. 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 2: I'm Britney Spanos. 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 3: And I'm Rob Sheffield and we're here to shed light 5 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 3: on the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 3: them so great. This week we're talking about a gray 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 3: one m Miss Jackson by Outcast. 8 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 9 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: This is one of four Outcast songs that made the list. 10 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: Miss Jackson is at number one forty five, and then 11 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: we have hey Ya in the top ten at number ten, 12 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: Bob Bombs over Bagdad at number thirty nine, and of 13 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: course their UGK collaboration International Player's Anthem is at number 14 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: ninety one. 15 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 2: I love Miss Jackson. 16 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: I think is probably the first Outcast song I'd ever heard, 17 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: but it's I'm so excited to talk about today. 18 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 3: That's so amazing. It's such a beautiful song. 19 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was on their two thousand albums Sanconia, 20 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: and it was the second single after Bob and Bob 21 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: was ended up being you know, sort of kind of 22 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: not the biggest hit to debut from the album. It 23 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: was also banned from rap radio and it just you know, 24 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't wasn't really like the launching point that their 25 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: label intended probably for the album, but of course Miss 26 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: Jackson ended up becoming this like massive breakout hit for 27 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: Outcast and just like a giant moment for them. 28 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely really the opposite of Moms for Baghdad, just in 29 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 3: terms of the sound and approach. 30 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: And this was a song that ended up hitting number 31 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: one and it was It won the Grammy for Best 32 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: Rap Performance by a Duo or a Group. And it's 33 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: also a very personal song for the band. This is 34 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: about Andrea's relationship with Eric Abadou, which it had ended 35 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: prior to the album being released, which I kind of 36 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: loved this like little homage to his relationship with her 37 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: and her mom. 38 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, very unusual to have a song to her mom 39 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 3: at all. 40 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 41 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and very kind of like great sort of dedication 42 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: to you know, the idea of breaking someone's daughter's heart 43 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: and kind of like how you deal with that, and 44 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: this like apology to both of them at the same time, 45 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: and it just comes out so well. 46 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 3: This song is just very different from anything anybody was 47 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 3: doing at the time. 48 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and even for Outcasts it ended up being you know, 49 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: this was kind of a moment for both of them 50 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: where they were sort of shifting their sound a little bit. 51 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: I think even for Andrea specifically, like this was kind 52 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: of the beginning of him doing more search like melodic singing, 53 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: sing rapping instead of just like straightforward rapping on every 54 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: Outcast song. Of course, we would see a lot more 55 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: kind of of that sort of diversity of his own 56 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: performance style on speaker Box, Love Below and Idlewild, but 57 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: this was sort of that beginning for him of like 58 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: really honing in on that. 59 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 3: Something like Bombs over Baghdad. I mean, it was so 60 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 3: avant garde, it was so challenging, it was so hard, 61 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 3: Miss Jackson. It just comes straight from the heart. Yeah, 62 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 3: very personal story, very unusual kind of thing for to 63 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 3: be singing about real life relationship that way. 64 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Andrea talked about how the song kind of 65 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: started out as this acoustic guitar song and ended up 66 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: switching it because he felt like it was just not 67 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: really what Outcast was doing or kind of what people 68 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: would want to hear from them, So ended up switching 69 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: the song. And they have this like really great sample 70 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: of the Brothers Johnson's version of Strawberry Letter twenty three 71 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: and kind of have this like cool sort of like 72 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: reverse flip of the of the sample and the song 73 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: on it, which is like that kind of I you know, 74 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: like reverse kind of flip under it. I've always really 75 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: really loved the way that sounded under under the vocals. 76 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, a familiar seventies sound with very outcast twist on it. 77 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 78 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: Eric has talked a little bit about the song and 79 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: about sort of like her own reaction to it, and 80 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: I really love that. She kind of talked about how 81 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: it was sort of like a sore spot for her 82 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: at first, just because especially with Big Boys verse, she 83 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: kind of liked that part was sort of it was 84 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: a little tougher because they had broken up. They you know, 85 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: heard Andre Shrison that they had had over the course 86 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: of their relationship, and she said it hit kind of 87 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: a sore spot. I didn't want to hear that, especially 88 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: when I heard Big Boys verse. When I heard Andre's verse, 89 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: I felt very good because his verse was really really inspiring. 90 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: He just said how he felt and it was his 91 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: honest feelings, and I always respected that and listened to 92 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: what he felt and appreciated it. And she said that 93 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, I talked about how her mom Loves 94 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: a song and like a Miss Jackson license played and 95 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: you know, a mug and an ink pen and just 96 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: kind of course embraced kind of being the titular Miss 97 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: Jackson in the song. 98 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and Eric's legend had really grown so much over 99 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 3: the past few years. It was wild that you could 100 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 3: hear the song as most people did, not knowing who 101 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 3: it was about a specific person, but for somebody as 102 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: legendary as Erica, it was just really enhanced knowing her 103 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 3: work and how powerful that is. 104 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you remember of like hearing Outcasts for 105 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: the first time or kind of hearing kind of this 106 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: band that was just like such like an explosive moment 107 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: in hip hop and in pop music when they kind 108 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: of came on the scene and started to blow up. 109 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, hearing Outcasts for the first time was a total transformation. 110 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 3: It was the Equimini era. Yeah, I was watching MTV. 111 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 3: I saw the video for Rows of Parks and that 112 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 3: was the first time I ever heard of Outcast and 113 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 3: Rose of Parks completely blew my mind. 114 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, all the. 115 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 3: Innovation in that song, all the humor in that song, 116 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: all the brilliance in that song. And I went out 117 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: and got in the car and drove to the mall. 118 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 3: It was right before closing time so I could buy 119 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 3: that CD. So I took it home and just listened 120 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 3: to a Quemini all night. 121 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think it was like Miss Jackson 122 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: was the first one that I'd heard, especially because that 123 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: video was such like a heavy rotation and TV video 124 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: of course, you know, with all the kind of animals 125 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: bobbing their heads and just sort of, you know, ingrained 126 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: in my own kind of consciousness type of video. But 127 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: obviously you know speaker Box Love below coming out when 128 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: it did, and sort of being in middle school and 129 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: all those songs, Like, I mean, Outcast ended up becoming 130 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: just like one of the most important and biggest acts 131 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: of that time for I think a lot of people 132 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: listening to pop music to rap music at that time. 133 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 3: It was so huge and so innovative. That was absolutely incredible, 134 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 3: their band doing things on every level that was unpredictable. Nonetheless, 135 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 3: it's so much pop appeal. 136 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, even coming after Ms Jackson and Bombs 137 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: of Her Baghdad and Rosa Parks like was kind of 138 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: the later music that Outcast released. Was that like a 139 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: very big shock or was it something where you were 140 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: just kind of like anticipating to be shocked by whatever 141 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: outcast was. 142 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the way they would evolve from album 143 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 3: to album and after a Qumini a Qumini was just 144 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 3: so mind blowing, and it seemed like both of their personalities, 145 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: their artistic personalities were so pronounced at that point, and 146 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 3: their originality was so pronounced at that point. And then 147 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 3: hearing them move on to Stanconia, which is such a 148 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 3: diverse album, such a radical album in so many ways. Yeah, 149 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 3: and as so many different kinds of songs on it, 150 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 3: Miss Jackson really stood out though. 151 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like the first time I'd listened to 152 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: a full album ended up being Speakerbox Love Below, and 153 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: like then going back and listening to their previous albums 154 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: just feeling like not really knowing what to anticipate, you know, 155 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: everything they're doing, and like everything they had been already 156 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: sort of establishing as their career and as their their sound, 157 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: Like it was just so many things at once and 158 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: still felt like so uniquely outcasts in the way that 159 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: they expressed themselves their own flows, like they had such 160 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: distinct identities both Big Boy and Andre as their own 161 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: performers and it just kind of always translated really well 162 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: over no matter what genre they would do or kind 163 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: of what sound they would want to like evoke in 164 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: their songs. 165 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, they could do any genre, and that there were 166 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 3: pop songs that were mostly andre inflected and then Big 167 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,239 Speaker 3: Boys more hardcore sound that was there, and their sound 168 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 3: from the beginning, Andre had that really pronounced poetic streak, Yeah, 169 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: and that was there on Quemini. That was there, going 170 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 3: back to the earlier stuff, but it was really incredible 171 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 3: how they would evolve album to album and they would 172 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 3: get more extreme, big Boy would get more Big Boy, 173 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 3: Andrea would get more andre Intel. An album like speaker 174 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: Box Love Blow is really split between their personalities in 175 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: a way that Quemini already was. The Quemini is their 176 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: astro signs the Aquarius and the Gemini Speaker Box Love below, 177 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 3: it's gotten so extreme how different their approaches are. 178 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: I always just really really love that the way they 179 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: play off each other, with andre Bean sort of this 180 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: like lover boy and like almost kind of coming off 181 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: this like very sort of not not always but typically 182 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: pretty romantic sort of view of the world, and kind 183 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: of the way that even just on mis Jackson of course, 184 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: just like his sort of dedication and like this like 185 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: tenderness that he has towards his partner and his partner's mother, 186 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: and then Big Boy kind of being much more of 187 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: the player, like a little bit of like, you know, 188 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: just a little bit of the fuck boy character and 189 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: opposition to Andrea. 190 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: I always love the way they played against that. 191 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 3: Well, and in such a personal song. For Andre to 192 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 3: drop that verse, it was wild how Big Boy gets 193 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: so pronounced in his personality in this song drop it 194 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 3: into his song. That's very personal for Andre. 195 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you had mentioned earlier the idea that people 196 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: didn't really know about it, being like Erica a bad 197 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: inspiration kind of what was the level of like, like, 198 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: who were Andre and Erica? I guess as a couple. 199 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: Were they very public or were they kind of like 200 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: I feel like there's so much of that lore and 201 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: people sort of like having this romanticized kind of version 202 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: of this couple that existed twenty years ago. But at 203 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: the time, did people know a lot about their relationship? 204 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: Were they very private? 205 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: What was that? Like? 206 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 3: They were very private? Andre and Erica both had their 207 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 3: own legends, and Erica was so such a poet, she 208 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 3: was so inflected with that progressive R and B that 209 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 3: she perfected in the nineties, so her legend was already secure. 210 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 3: It didn't overlap that much with the kind of stuff 211 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 3: that Outcast was doing. And definitely it was more Andre 212 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 3: than Big Boy, Yeah, that sort of soul aquarian perspective. 213 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 3: But Erica was an artist who evolved album to album 214 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: as well. 215 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 216 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: I mean it's been so like fun to kind of 217 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: see over the years, especially they went on hiatus in 218 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, and they unity in twenty fourteen 219 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: for a string of festival dates, which was great to 220 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: kind of catch them at that point and be able 221 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: to finally see them live. 222 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 2: But you know, they've. 223 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: Had such appropriately divergent career of hats since two thousand 224 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: and seven. 225 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: Of course, most recently, Andrea. 226 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: Released an album that's entirely flute compositions, which is I 227 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: don't know if anyone s could have expected anything else 228 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: from Andre right now. 229 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 3: It's so hardcore. I love that, And with people waiting 230 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 3: so long for new music from Andrea, yeah, and it 231 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 3: turns out to be the flute, and people listened to 232 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 3: the flute. 233 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have I know a lot of people who 234 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: went that he just did a concert and that was 235 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: kind of a big pilgrimage for a lot of people 236 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: to go to the show and just see Andre play 237 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: the flute. Big Boy, of course, has released several solo albums. 238 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: He's done a lot of collaborations and production work with 239 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: other people, and he's very instrumental in Ghannamne's career and 240 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: you know, working with a lot of younger artists. And 241 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: also has his owls that you know, I'm a very 242 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: big fan of Big Boys three owls that he has 243 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: at the Stanconia Recording Studio and and Ben building. But 244 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: he has three great owls that I'm obsessed with that 245 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: he posts a lot about on Instagram and allegedly worked 246 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: at a song with Kate Bush as yet to be released, 247 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: but that he talked about a few years ago that 248 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm very much looking forward to. 249 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 3: I cannot wait for that collaboration and the way their 250 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 3: sensibilities overlapped. But it's about their careers since then have 251 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 3: gotten so different. They've gone to opposite extremes. But the owls, well, 252 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 3: the flute is kind of the owls. 253 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 254 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: Instruments, Yeah, I think that it definitely makes sense, Like 255 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of the unifying part of Outcast 256 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: right is like a little bit of the flute owl 257 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: kind of dynamic that they have. 258 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, for artists like them to have their own careers 259 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: after being together for so long, but there's still those 260 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 3: sort of there's still those personalities that they were in Aquimina. 261 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 262 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite track or several tracks. 263 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 3: By Outcast well Rosa Parks, Yeah, kind of goes back. 264 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,719 Speaker 3: That's the shock of the new Yeah, bombs over bag 265 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: Dad was bigger for me personally than Miss but Miss 266 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 3: Jackson is equally radical. Yeah, they're both Bob and Miss 267 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: Jackson are both really radical songs and that they're unlike 268 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: anything else that was going on at the time. 269 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, mine is Roses. I'm a big speaker Box 270 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: Love Below fan. That album was I think released at 271 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: the exact right time for me, where it was like 272 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: hay On Roses were like the first two songs I'd 273 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: ever bought on iTunes, you know, this was like finally 274 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: had like my own way of buying music, and it 275 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: was that song I always really loved just kind of 276 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: how the drama of it, the weirdness of it, the 277 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: theatricality of that in the video, like before I entered 278 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: my full theater kid era. I feel like that was 279 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: a good precursor to what was going to come for 280 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: me in a few years. 281 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 3: That's an amazing song. It was just very funny to 282 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 3: hear on the radio. Sometimes you know, the word poopoo 283 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 3: would get ansored and sometimes it wouldn't. 284 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: I think it was also probably the eleven year old 285 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: tensive humor of hearing out Cass poopoo on the radio and. 286 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 3: Definitely the first time it had been done hit that. 287 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: Mass hit and who else could have a hit other 288 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 2: than a Cast with that? 289 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 3: No, but it kind of it typifies their originality and 290 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 3: as you said, the theatricality is so important in that song. 291 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, what is it about like Outcast, 292 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: especially this era of Outcast that has had such an 293 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: impact on music or pop culture in your mind, Like, 294 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: what kind of is that legacy of miss Jackson and 295 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: this particular moment for Outcast. 296 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 3: For such a personal hip hop song, and it's at 297 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 3: a time when it was very different from the kind 298 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 3: of song that it was autobiographical. But like you said, 299 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 3: there's a lot of tenderness in the song, the emotions 300 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 3: that he expresses are very introspective and very delicate. Ye, 301 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 3: He's talking about personal weaknesses, personal failures. He's talking about 302 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 3: a relationship that, as we were saying, was very private 303 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 3: at the time, and talking about the end of it 304 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 3: but also facing the responsibilities that came with it. So 305 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: it's about their past, it's about their future, but that 306 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 3: it's such a personal song just really different. 307 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, even just in the way that the 308 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: Beak kind of does that sort of rewind kind of 309 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: record scratch thing, Like there is so much of that 310 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: kind of like evoking of that nostalgia for relationship, that sadness, 311 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: that kind of like just general kind of energy that 312 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: especially Andre is bringing to that story about you know, 313 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: of him and Erica and this relationship with her and 314 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: her mom. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, 315 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: just again them sort of playing with these two different 316 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: sides of like how to approach a very like delicate 317 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: type of relationship with. 318 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: Your partner's parent is very kind. 319 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: Of that unique outcast humor and kind of weirdness that 320 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: they bring to everything. 321 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, there are not enough songs about dealing with the 322 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: partner's parent. Yeah, and it's a topic that had not 323 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 3: been explored on this level. Definitely not in the song 324 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 3: this great. Yeah, but for him to get so introspective 325 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 3: and confessional about real life and that real relationship at 326 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 3: that time was really it was really innovative for him. 327 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 328 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 3: Outcast breaking up was not a surprise. Yeah, everybody knew 329 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 3: it was come. And they've been drifting apart artistically really, 330 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 3: even Speaker Box Love Below, where it's basically two separate albums. Yeah, 331 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 3: but even on Stanconia and even in Miss Jackson, that 332 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: divide is. 333 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: There, Yeah, definitely it. You know, there is so much 334 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: of them really wanting to establish who they are as 335 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: artists and be bigger than just the group, which is 336 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: you know, it can be such a trap for anyone 337 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: to be in a duo or in any type of group, 338 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: and so it's very clear that they want to establish 339 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: early on that they have individual identities that are outside 340 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: of Outcast and that at some point they will be 341 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: exploring those identities because they are such disparate artists, you know, 342 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: there is so much of that chemistry that they have 343 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: is because they're so different, and that makes it work 344 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: so well, is that they have you know, there are 345 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: a lot of things that bond them musically, and you know, 346 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: kind of creatively, but their personality is their own delivery, 347 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: is the own way that they approach things is very 348 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: clearly different from the beginning. And again that's that's a 349 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: lot of the appeal of how Cast works is that 350 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: they find this like really miraculous and cool way of 351 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: making that feel so seamless and kind of play off 352 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: of each other in a really fun way. 353 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, they coexisted for so long. Did you see their 354 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: amazing Saturday Night Live performance around the time that Stankonia 355 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 3: came out. 356 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: No, I don't think I did. 357 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: They did an absolutely iconic Saturday Night Live and it 358 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 3: was bombs over Baghdad and it was seeing them bring 359 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 3: that sort of that flare to the presentation of it 360 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 3: just as a live presentation, Yeah, it was something totally different. 361 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 3: It was definitely one of the most iconic Saturday Night 362 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 3: Live appearances ever. The song sounded like nothing that anybody 363 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 3: had ever heard, but just as a live thing, it 364 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 3: was such a full show. There were so many people 365 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: who are making it a full on presentation. Yea, it 366 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: seems like a very different song to do live. 367 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, And also, like while we've been talking, I've been 368 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: thinking about other sort of especially with this season of 369 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: the podcast, and like other episodes we've talked, I feel 370 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: like we've talked about we've brought up Outcast a lot, 371 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: and I feel like, even for the artists that we 372 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: both kind of like talk about a lot, like, I 373 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: feel like Outcast has come up a bunch, like and 374 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: the you know, when we talked about Kate Bush, when 375 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: we talked about Beyonce, and we talked about of course 376 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: the International Player's Anthem, where we had like the other 377 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: another Outcast song, Like, I feel like they've ended up 378 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: sort of organically coming up a lot, And it's so 379 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: fascinating how much Outcast feels like kind of like the 380 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: center of the of the pop universe in a lot 381 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: of ways. And it feels like there there's such a 382 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: long sort of tale to their musical legacy and to 383 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: their musical influence. But I also cannot think of a 384 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: single act that sounds like Outcasts since since. 385 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 3: Them absolutely very different dynamic for a duo, and even 386 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: though they've been so influential, you do hear them everywhere. 387 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 3: They kind of embody pop music because they had such 388 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 3: diverse tastes and because they were willing to try so 389 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 3: many different things. 390 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: I think, especially within the group. You know, it's like 391 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: Big Boy was already the person that he knew he 392 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: wanted to be as like a performer as a rapper, 393 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: and like we've you know, the big Boy character and 394 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: the big Boy style performing has has existed since then 395 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: and kind of you know, grown in other ways. But 396 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: you know, he he has sort of this firm and 397 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: like like you mentioned, like Andrea is such like this 398 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: like very fluid type of performer. So it's been so 399 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: fascinating to kind of see the different angles he's taken 400 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: on who he is. You know, even just like the 401 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: year's leading up to this Flute album, Like it just 402 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: was the times we saw Andrea in public was like 403 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: you know, you would see someone share a photo on 404 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: like Twitter or Instagram. That was like ran into Andrea 405 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: three thousand at the airport and he was just playing 406 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: a flute. I mean, I'm curious, like what you sort 407 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: of you know, as we kind of I think so 408 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: much of the Outcast Prime era. 409 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 2: Is still in the air. You know. 410 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: It's like it's still kind of feels like feels like, hey, 411 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: a happened yesterday, so it feels like, hey, I still 412 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: number one. 413 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 2: Somewhere. 414 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: I'm curious where you think that sort of legacy will 415 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: continue on, especially as they get further and further away 416 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: from I'm assuming was their only reunion tour the other 417 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: do I would be very very surprised if they ever 418 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: did another. One would love to be surprised, but I 419 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: very highly doubt they will do it again. I guess, like, 420 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: where do you kind of see that sort of developing 421 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: in the years going forward, and like how that will 422 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: be maintained by outcasts, by the fans and by the 423 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: artists influenced by them. 424 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 3: They're going to keep influencing everybody. Like you said, there's 425 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: little of them all over pop music. Every song that 426 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 3: we talk about seems to relate to outcasts and for 427 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 3: them to be so influential and yet not to have 428 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 3: any imitators, I mean, nobody tries to sound like them 429 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 3: because nobody can sound like them. And so I think 430 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 3: going forward, they're just going to get more influential and 431 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 3: inspire more different kinds of artists. 432 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and after the break, we have Simon Valsick Levinson 433 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,479 Speaker 1: to talk about Miss Jackson. We are joined now by 434 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone w Music editor Simon Valsik Levinson. Simon thank 435 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: you for joining. 436 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 4: Us, Hey guys to see us all. 437 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 3: Thanks Simon. 438 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: Do you remember sort of like the first time that 439 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: you heard Outcast and kind of like what they they 440 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: to music? The first time that you listened to. 441 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 5: Them, taking it back to let's say, you know, like 442 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 5: the mid to late nineties, this is probably like nineteen 443 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 5: ninety seven, nineteen ninety eight, there was just nobody doing 444 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 5: it like Outcast. Like I remember, you know, hearing probably 445 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 5: the first Outcast record that I heard that really made 446 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 5: an impression on me. It was a Quemini listening to 447 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 5: that album and listening to just you know how much 448 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 5: like personality and style both Big Boy and Andre you know, 449 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 5: we're bringing to the table, how they kind of played 450 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 5: off of each other. It just it felt like it 451 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 5: was kind of outside of genre, it was its own thing. 452 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 5: It was just like this incredibly compelling thing, and I 453 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 5: was kind of hooked from you know, that point forward. 454 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 4: I think, so we're a lot of other people. 455 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: You know, with Stantonia, like where do you kind of 456 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: see that falling within the Outcast discography and like what 457 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: it did for them. 458 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 5: It can be wild to think about how far Outcast 459 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 5: went over the course of a relatively short period of 460 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 5: time in the nineties. Right, Big Boy and Andre started 461 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 5: you know, makeing music together when they were teenagers in 462 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 5: Atlanta in the early nineties. Their first album came out 463 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 5: in nineteen ninety four. At that point, you know, that 464 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 5: was a time win for a lot of people hip 465 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 5: hop with something it happened, you know in. 466 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 4: New York or LA. 467 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 5: Right, they had to really you know, plant the flag 468 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 5: and remind people, you know, literally, Andre famously said at 469 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 5: the nineteen ninety five Source Awards, and you know, the 470 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 5: South has something to say. That was like a controversial 471 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 5: statement at that time. People were like whoa, Like wow. 472 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 5: Once they had kind of established that Southern app was 473 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 5: exciting and important, you know, all the things that we 474 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 5: know it is now, they immediately went to kind of 475 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 5: exploding and reinventing that blueprint that they had made themselves. 476 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 5: And I think, you know, from there it was like 477 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 5: every two years, Outcast would drop a new album that 478 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 5: was even more incredible than the one before it. That 479 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 5: kind of made it feel like the last thing they did, 480 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 5: which had felt kind of mind blowing and incredible, was 481 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 5: kind of yesterday's news, and they were on a whole 482 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 5: other planet. Now and they did that with at Aliens, 483 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 5: with the Quemini, and then in two thousand, I feel 484 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 5: like Stanconi was like the ultimate fruition of everything that 485 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 5: Andrea and Big Boy had been doing prior to that point. 486 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 5: It was like nothing else, you know, anyone had ever heard, 487 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 5: you know really. 488 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially Andrea like starting to explore more singing on it, 489 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: and I guess testing out sort of his own style. 490 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 2: I'm kind of reinventing himself. 491 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that's amazing about 492 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 5: Atcast to me is like you have one of the 493 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 5: greatest rappers ever, Big Boy, who's just like an incredible rapper. 494 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 5: You have Andre who's also an incredible rapper, but who 495 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 5: was almost never felt, you know, content to just be 496 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 5: a great rapper, right. He was always, even from the beginning, 497 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 5: trying to kind of, you know, get to this higher philosophical, spiritual, 498 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 5: mystical plane. And he pushed that farther and farther with 499 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 5: each album, and you know, it got to the point 500 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 5: where by the time you get to Stanconia, you press 501 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 5: play on that album and it starts with Andre like 502 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 5: metaphorically burning the American flag over, like you know, hard 503 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 5: rock guitars and a funk beat, and it's like it's 504 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 5: you know, telling you you're you're kind of you're in 505 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 5: a different realm now, and you know that that album 506 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 5: encompasses so many different exciting styles. And you know, I 507 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 5: think Miss Jackson shows you that one of the styles 508 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 5: that Andre was interested in doing and Big Boy could 509 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 5: kind of go along with him to do was pop music, 510 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 5: you know, and they could they could really do that 511 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 5: as well as they could do anything else. 512 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, the transition from a Quemini to Stanconia Our Remember 513 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: is a really kind of shocking transition because everybody would 514 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 3: have been del I did with just a Quimini part too. 515 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 3: Everybody kind of wanted more of the same. 516 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 5: Yes, That's the thing about out Kest was that I think, 517 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 5: you know, they were so committed to kind of reinventing 518 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 5: themselves with every album that they did kind of weave 519 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 5: you wanting more each time, right, So like if you 520 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 5: wanted more of that, you know, A Quemini was already 521 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 5: an album that was pushing beyond the box of straightforward 522 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 5: Southern hip hop to incorporate all kinds of funk and 523 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 5: soul and so many other things, right, But they weren't 524 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 5: you content to stop there? And I think I think 525 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 5: specifically Andrea was interested in doing even more than that. 526 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 5: Wanted to tear up the rule book like yet again 527 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 5: for like the third or fourth time in as many albums. 528 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, and what is it about Miss Jackson? 529 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: I guess, like why is it? That song kind of 530 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: broke the way it did and kind of reaches my people, 531 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: is it did? 532 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 5: It's a great song. It's only one of my favorite 533 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 5: Outcast songs. I don't know if it's my number one favorite, 534 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 5: but it is, I mean for sure, Like Miss Jackson, 535 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,239 Speaker 5: I think was their first number one hit, right, it 536 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 5: was a It was a really exciting thing to see 537 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 5: like this, you know, if you had been kind of 538 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 5: following them and listening to them album after album to 539 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 5: hear that big Boy Andrea were capable of making up 540 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 5: hit like a song that people would sing along to 541 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 5: that you could hear coming out of like you know, 542 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 5: taxis and playing on the radio all the time. That 543 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 5: was kind of like a new thing for them that 544 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 5: they and they did that like so effortlessly and without 545 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 5: kind of like losing who they were. That it was 546 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 5: really exciting to see those two guys making a number 547 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 5: one song. 548 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, what is your number one? 549 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 4: Outcast on Oh. 550 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 5: My God, my personal number one song. I mean, it's 551 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 5: it's hard to they're also, I mean, out Guests were 552 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 5: such a great albums band that it almost feels like reductive, 553 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 5: you know, sorry to uh to reduce them to one song, right, 554 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 5: but for the purposes of this podcast, I mean for me, 555 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 5: you know, Bombs over a Backdad also on the same 556 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 5: album from Sanconia. 557 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 4: That's the song that just like completely. 558 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 5: Re scrambled my brain when I heard it, but still 559 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 5: just kind of like no other group really picked up 560 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 5: that torch, Like no one else is making that kind 561 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 5: of like psychedelic you know, drum and bassed hard rap 562 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 5: like at the same time on one song the way 563 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 5: that you know Andrea and Big Boy did there. 564 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was rereading your twenty fourteen interview with Andre 565 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: and how he mentioned the label wanted kid Rock to 566 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: do with the guitar solo on it, which just like 567 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: blew my mind, just like I cannot believe this as 568 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: a concept, like imagining the version of the world where 569 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: there's like the Bombs of our Bagdad featuring kid Rock. 570 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 5: Yes, that's that's a classic moment of like, you know, 571 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 5: no offense to whichever you know A and R person 572 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 5: that was that idea. But that's like a classic moment 573 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 5: in like major label brain thinking where they're like, what 574 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 5: Outcast needs on their extract is a kid rock guitards That. 575 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 4: Made sense to someone at some time in nineteen ninety ninety. 576 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 3: But then part of the great est of Miss Jackson 577 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 3: we've been talking about is that it sounded nothing like 578 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 3: Outcast in terms of like what we already thought Outcast were. 579 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 3: I mean, we're talking about fore it. The first one 580 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 3: I ever heard was Rosa Parks, and it was so 581 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 3: different from anything anybody had done, so aggressively southern, so 582 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 3: rural as well as so urban, and just such a 583 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 3: mix of things that it just seemed like it was 584 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 3: completely insane. That it was like by you know, the 585 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 3: group that did elevators right, and that they were always 586 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 3: so committed, like you said, to just rewriting the rule 587 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 3: book every. 588 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 5: Time, right, exactly, no, And they did that so many 589 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 5: times that it was almost it became like a game. 590 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 5: Listening to them, like what are they going to do 591 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 5: next time? How is this going to completely upend my expectations? 592 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 5: And you know, right now, I think for Andre three 593 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 5: thousand and that's you know, by doing what he's doing 594 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 5: now is something it's not even on just like a 595 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 5: it's on a whole different planet from what he did 596 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 5: with Outcast, and that's you know, it's exciting to see. 597 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 2: Yeah. 598 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, even like I mean my introduction to them was 599 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: speaker Box the Love Below and kind of the bigness 600 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: of hay On and Roses and everything around the entire album, 601 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: and even that, you know, kind of going back afterwards 602 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: and hearing everything or like it just feels like such 603 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: like a different group each time. And of course like 604 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: at a wild after like that, it's just like it 605 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: feels like something completely different. Like the fact that they 606 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: were able to kind of keep it in a way 607 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: where each album is so much inventing themselves, Like it 608 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: does end up making sense that eventually, you know, Andre 609 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: kind of goes like completely left field and like try 610 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: something completely new. You know, it just felt like such 611 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: a different group every single time in a way. 612 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a great point, and I'm glad you brought 613 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 5: up with Speakerbox to love Blow. That's another like an 614 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 5: even more successful album and an incredible album, but you 615 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 5: know that's obviously famously like an album that has two halves, 616 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 5: where you know, Big Boy and Andrea were on such 617 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 5: different pages that they had to make sort of two albums. 618 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 5: They couldn't make one album that contained both of their visions. 619 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 5: In retrospect, Stanconie is kind of the last time that 620 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 5: their diverging visions could be fit on one album and 621 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 5: could kind of work together. And I think, I mean 622 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 5: Mims Jackson is an example of that, right, Like you 623 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 5: can hear on that song, Andrea is stretching to you know, 624 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 5: do these these new things and to make a love 625 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 5: song and a heartbreak song and a pop song. Big 626 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 5: Boys is still there, you know, keeping keeping outcasts grounded 627 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 5: in the kind of the traditional kind of like clever 628 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 5: slick talking, you know, rap music that he's so excellent at, 629 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 5: and you hear both of their visions kind of for 630 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 5: one of the last times still kind of working together. 631 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 632 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: I love the way that you described Big Boys kind 633 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: of keeping outcasts sort of grounded in kind of what 634 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: they've like, what they've always done, and sort of what 635 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: the core of outcasts and who they are. I mean, 636 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: tell me about sort of your own kind of relationship 637 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: with his solo music sense and like what he's sort 638 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: of I mean, he's also had like I mean, I 639 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: feel like, just like such a fascinating journey since Outcast 640 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: has broken up and then reunited and then broken up again. 641 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 5: But yeah, right, yeah, no, it's it's fascinating, like so 642 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 5: one interesting thing that happened with Outcast. You know, in 643 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 5: the nineties, I would say, there were always these debates 644 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 5: about who's the better rapper, Andre or a Big Boy, 645 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 5: And for many years people would kind of maybe would 646 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 5: would think that Andrea was the greater. And you know, 647 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 5: there's a strong case to be made there, right, He's 648 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 5: someone who has this kind of this other level to him, 649 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 5: who is constantly kind of like pushing and expanding at 650 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 5: the same time. I think you can make an argument 651 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 5: that Big Boy on his own, even you know, without 652 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 5: Andrea on his own, is an incredible, you know, top 653 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 5: category rapper. And I think he's shown that in his 654 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 5: solo career. Sir Lucius left Foot, the first Big Boy 655 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 5: album that he put out, is an example of how 656 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 5: you know, I think there was a real question for 657 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 5: him there, like can big Boy make a great album 658 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 5: without Andre pushing him to kind of you know, try 659 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 5: new things and expand and the answer. 660 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 4: Is like, yeah, he can. 661 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 5: Like that's just an incredibly fun, charismatic, kind of enjoyable 662 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 5: Southern rap album that you really shows that, you know, 663 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 5: big boy can hold his own and hold the spotlight. 664 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 5: And he's done that many times since then in his 665 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 5: solo career. 666 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot about on this podcast, and 667 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: especially with bands like this or artists like this, where 668 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: their legacy is always evolving and the way that they 669 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: sort of interact with it is complicated and you know, 670 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: unique and Okay is a perfect example of that. I mean, 671 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,239 Speaker 1: what do you sort of see as sort of the 672 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: future of Outcast legacy and influence? I mean, we were 673 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: trying to piece together artists that are more explicitly inspired 674 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: by them. It's so hard to pin down because no 675 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: one can really do what Outcast has done. So you know, 676 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: of course the influence is there and kind of looms 677 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: over everything, but there aren't any there's no one who 678 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: can do exactly what Outcasts was able to do. And 679 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: so I mean, I guess what do you kind of 680 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: see as the future of that legacy and influence over 681 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: the years. 682 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it's s right right on one level, like 683 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 5: no one is outcast, no one can be outcast. At 684 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,239 Speaker 5: the same time, I think that you can see their 685 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 5: influence in you know, almost just like the whole category 686 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 5: of music and pop music in terms of what you know, 687 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 5: a group can do, what two people can do, there 688 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 5: are so many, you know, at the time in nineteen 689 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 5: eighty eight or nineteen night nine, two thousand, it was 690 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 5: still controversial and kind of like challenging to say that, 691 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 5: you know, a rapper might want to sing on an 692 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 5: album instead of rapping, or might want to make funk 693 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 5: or rock or psychedelic music. Now that kind and we 694 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 5: kind of take that for granted and tons of artists 695 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 5: you know, do that and do great things at that. 696 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 5: It's not questioned anymore, and that's you know, that's a 697 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 5: way is something that I think Outke has kind of 698 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 5: opened the door to in a lot of ways. 699 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Thank you so much for joining us today, Simon. 700 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me, Thank you anytime. 701 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stones five hundred 702 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling 703 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: Stone and iHeartMedia. Rinnan hosted by me Britney Spanis and 704 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: Rob Sheffield executive produced by Gus Winner, Jason Fine, Alex 705 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: Dale and Christian Horde, and produced by Jesse Cannon, with 706 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: music supervision by Eric Seiler