WEBVTT - The Most Important Relationship is With Yourself: with ALOK 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:08.119 Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever, 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.320 pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.120 and I have conversations that put a new spin on 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:20.759 pretty This is pretty smart. Can you believe I'm still 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.280 in New York? I was in New York last week. 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:29.280 I'm still here. I'm here until Sunday. And today I 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.960 was doing something that I look forward to every single year. 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.559 I was with AT and T for Tribeca Festival and 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.559 Untold Stories. So each year AT and T puts this 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:47.200 on and five talented filmmaking teams pitch their feature projects 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:53.360 to an expert panel. This year's was Derek Luke, who 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:57.840 you've seen in Captain America, the first Avenger, Kellen Smith Kenny, 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.400 the chief marketing and Growth officer at AT and tea, 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:06.840 actor and producer Moe McCrae, actress Michael Michelle, and filmmaker 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.640 and former Untold Stories winner nardeep Kermy. You can actually 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.840 see his film Land of Gold, he won two years 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.480 ago on HBO Max, which is now Max. The cool 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.000 thing is that each year's winner receives a million dollars 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.920 to make their film, so it takes their pitch idea 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.480 to a full length feature and then it debuts at 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.360 the next year's Tribeca Festival. So we saw the film 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:36.400 that won this year, and then next year it's going 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.800 to debut and premiere at the twenty twenty four Tribeca Festival. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.000 It's really cool to watch all five pitches because the 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:48.680 whole program celebrates the power of diverse storytelling, and they're 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.400 really in these writers and directors and actors' corners. I've 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:57.120 always felt like artists are orchestrators of attention. They instill 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.000 hope time and time again, and we're just so lucky 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.560 to have them, and they need our support, and so 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:07.920 Untold Stories at and t Tribeca Festival gives them that support. 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.400 It was really cool to be a part of Separately. 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:15.080 I've been trying to just give you products or podcasts 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:19.480 or anything that's been amazing in my life. And I 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.320 went to my friend Sifat's dinner a few weeks ago. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.720 Sif co founded Array with her husband. She was on 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.520 the podcast, but they did this dinner in partnership with 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.320 Tower twenty eight and she has been telling me about 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.480 this spray for months and I didn't listen to her, 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.520 and then it was in the goodie bag and I 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.359 came home and oh my god, it's incredible. It's called 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.280 the SOS Save Our Skin Spray. It's a daily rescue 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:50.560 facial spray. This is not sponsored. It's unbelievable. You never 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.080 really hear me talking about beauty products on the podcast, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:03:01.320 but this is something. Okay, let's get to the episode. 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.040 So one of my favorite finales ever is Sex in 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.320 the City. Not really because I loved the finale so much, 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.760 but because of this line, which Carrie delivers during the 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:15.800 closing montage. The most exciting, challenging and significant relationship evolved. 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.720 It's the one you have with yourself. You gain so 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.200 much by having a good relationship with yourself, but it's 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.919 so easy to say and so challenging to do. Our 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:33.760 guest today is internationally acclaimed author, poet, comedian and non 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:39.080 binary activists Aloke, who knows all about a curvy journey. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.040 If you've ever heard them speak or have read their writing, 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.960 you know they're beautifully articulate and disarmingly honest in a 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.280 way that kind of makes you question everything you've ever 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:55.760 believed about gender, self love, trauma, and well everything. And 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.960 during our conversation, there was a lot of that. We 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:00.560 talked about identities, struggles. 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.800 I say that Hatred has been the most reliable lover 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:04.520 in my life. 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:05.440 It's someone that I. 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:10.200 Could always go back to evolving. The true transition for 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:15.640 me was not on gender. It was from dissociation living 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:17.960 what other people wanted me to be. And I think 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.360 the best part about being human is that we changed 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:21.800 and why we need. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.240 To rethink the things we've just assumed. 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.200 Here's the truth tlot twist, We're souls all playing dress up. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:34.760 Alak's art is about individuality, joy, self acceptance, and the 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.719 beauty of being. My hope is that this conversation leaves 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.599 you feeling proud to be you and to have a 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.160 lot more fun because a Loak taught me that in 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:54.919 this conversation too. So the name of the podcast is 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.159 pretty Smart because there's pretty bold, pretty witty, pretty strong, 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.520 pretty smart interview people who put a new spin on 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.320 pretty And I want to know what the last pretty 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:05.720 smart idea is that. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.840 You had being alive. 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:10.440 That's a good one. 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:11.840 Yeah. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.479 So you grew up in a small conservative town in 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:19.120 Texas to immigrant parents. How do you think your first 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:25.640 generation parents experience shaped you most overtly and then covertly. 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:28.160 Most overtly. 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:34.080 I grew up with so much fear, Fear of what 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:39.039 other people would think, fear of what the future would hold, 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:47.400 fear of who we were. And it was both overt 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:53.719 and covert. It resembled things that didn't announce themselves to 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.200 be fear. But then when you actually would push beneath 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.280 the surface, you'd be like, this is fear. Like one 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.200 of the narratives I grew up with was that you 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.719 need the three basics in life, rice, roti, and rita. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:08.400 And I'd be like, what does that mean? And they'd 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:13.680 be like a private education, marriage, and property. And I'd 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.279 be like why and they'd be like, well, we come 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.039 from refugees. So when you keep on asking why, you 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.240 begin to realize that actually people are so afraid of 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:29.200 losing things, and so they were hiding through external signifiers 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:34.680 a degree that stability came from some external validation. And 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:36.159 I think it's taken me a long time in my 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:38.240 life to be able to identify that so many of 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.840 the truisms that I thought were us, my family, our 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:43.760 culture was just fear. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.599 Wow, I feel like I'm getting to meet a very 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.760 realized version of a look. But I can't imagine that 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.960 in Texas as a kid, you were as realized as 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.560 you are now, and I was reading that you were 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.599 bullied a lot. So I think bullying is a broad term. 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.320 If you can take me back to little Eloke, what 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:07.159 did that look like and feel like? For you? 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:14.200 My deepest and youngest memories that I still have access 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.160 to were the sense that I was wrong and could 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:23.120 do no good, that I had to continually prove and 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:30.360 justify why I deserve to be alive, and so bullying. 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.600 I think often the focus is always on what people 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.440 are saying like a slur, but I actually think the 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.400 real psychic dimensions of bullying or how it lives inside 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.360 of you after the fact. I think you'll maybe get 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.960 attention when you say people were yelling at me in 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.360 the hallway, but I think the real traumatizing story is 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.800 and then I started to yell at myself, and what 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.200 yelling at myself looked like was and then I stopped 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.560 wearing what I wanted to wear, I stopped allowing myself 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:05.640 to feel, I stopped allowing myself to be honest. That 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.760 is the real devastating toll that I have to take 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.000 inventory of on the other side, and I think that's 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:13.880 the work that I'm doing right now, is to actually 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:18.360 realize that like hatred was implanted in me, and I 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.520 chose to keep it there because I thought that I 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.440 deserved it. I thought that there was no other way 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.240 for someone like me to exist without having to apologize 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.960 for being alive. And so I think that it's difficult 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.880 because so much of what the pain of bullying is 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.560 happens internally, not externally, but it feels like people only 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.000 want to notice with the external, not the internal. 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.600 In your book, Beyond the gender Binary, you dedicate it 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.400 to everyone who has been made to feel like they 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.079 were too much or never enough, And I was like, okay, 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:56.000 so everyone, as you sit here today, do either of 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:56.840 those come up for you. 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.920 I think I have a daily relationship with both of those. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:09.240 I feel like every time I've achieved a new stratosphere 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:14.720 of self acceptance, then something else happens and I'm like, oops, 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.640 starting from square one. And it's kind of frustrating because 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.600 I thought healing would be like you put in the time, 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:22.240 you put in the work, and then you're there. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.280 But what I've learned actually is that you have to 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:26.120 continue to. 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.120 Meet the task of saying, am I going to prioritize 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.079 a healed version of me? Am I going to operate 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:39.440 from a higher frequency? And I think what I'm starting 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.320 to actually realize now is that it's more about developing 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.800 a discipline and a practice than it is about having 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:49.880 a destination. And that's why I've been saying authenticity is 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:54.360 an orientation, not a destination, because every day, how cool 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:58.920 it is that we get the opportunity to recommit ourselves 0:09:59.000 --> 0:09:59.880 to our highest self. 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.720 As I was reading your bio, you have a lot 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:09.800 of titles, right, and I mean your author, activist, performer. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.360 I see you as an artist because I always think 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:18.560 that artists are orchestrators of our attention, and to me, 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.560 that is one of your deep gifts. And then I 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.040 read that you used art as a way to sort 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:26.760 of heal when you were a kid. What did that 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:27.160 look like? 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.319 Yeah, thank you for saying that, because I feel like 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.520 artists is the only identity I've ever selected for myself. 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.800 Everything else was people telling me this is what you are, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.800 and artist was something I said, Yeah, this is who 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:41.640 I am on my own terms, because what I like 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.319 about it is that it resists definition It's not about 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.560 saying I'm a poet or I'm a comic. It's about saying, 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.560 in every scenario, I'm going to pursue the creative choice. 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.640 Artistry is a practice of noticing what people say is 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.040 impossible and saying, I beg to disagree. 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.000 Ooh, say that again. 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:06.640 Yeah, noticing what people say is impossible and then saying, 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:07.880 I beg to disagree. 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.080 I was having a meeting in New York one time 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.160 and someone said to me, what do you think the 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:16.600 most pivotal thing is in raising a successful child? And 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:24.240 I said confidence? And they said art. And I said art, 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:29.000 out of all the things, And they said, if you 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.679 immerse your child in art, they learn confidence, they learn 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.160 how to think, They learn all the things that you're 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.960 wanting and asking for, think about like all the great 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.640 people in your life. There's art there somewhere. 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.000 That's so true my mind. 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.640 Yeah, you're giving me vocabulary to understand my own childhood. 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.840 I was super fortunate because both of my grandparents on 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:56.280 my mom's side were artists. My grandmother started painting in 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.440 her late seventies after she got arthritis, so she would 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.880 just make these abstract paintings out of tools from the kitchen, 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.800 and my grandfather was a novelist and a playwright wow, 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.560 and he would write with a quill pen like dipping 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.480 it in ink and writing it down. And whenever they 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.720 were making art, I was always, as a kid told 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.920 don't disturb them. They're making art. There was this idea 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:21.400 that art making is something sacred and we need to 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.360 reserve time for it. And so I was always encouraged 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:31.280 not just what I thought, but expressing what I saw 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.600 in the world. And I think that's where a lot 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.839 of my courage and my conviction came from, is that 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.840 I had people around me who were curious about my 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:39.880 point of view in the world. 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.560 Many of the trans stories that I here explained are 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.680 transitioning from one gender to another, and as I was 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.000 reading about you, I was thinking, like, I'm not sure 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:56.600 that that resonates. Does that no? Will you say more? 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:57.320 Yeah? 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.600 Sure, I see. The true transition for me was not 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:06.840 on gender. It was from dissociation living what other people 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.520 wanted me to be, to lucidity living how I wanted 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:15.240 to be, to actually cultivating presence and awe that I'm alive, 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.200 which is why I think that it was pretty smart 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.040 of me to choose being alive, because I think many 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:25.520 people are on an autopilot, existing but not living, and 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.800 gender is only one precipice of a larger conversation of 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.160 how we exist in a world that only cares for 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:37.400 us if we perpetuate some fantasy of what it wants 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.920 us to be, and very rarely are we asked who 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.360 we want to become. And so I made the decision 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.040 to become my best version of myself. And that was 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.040 less of a before and after, an A or a B, 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.080 but a daily practice of saying, how do I live 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:57.280 with integrity and authenticity. And it was less about saying 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.320 I was a boy and now I'm non binary to 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.120 saying I am a look and I'm figuring it out. 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.160 Less a journey with a fixed destination and more an 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.119 embrace of fluidity. 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.920 So when I read about this story of you telling 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.400 your grandmother, it was really hard to read. You said, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.360 when I first told my grandmother I was transgender, she responded, 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.800 how could you do this to me? In her eyes, 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.840 my journey was about hurting her and not about healing myself. 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.560 I feel like the reality for a lot of trans 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:34.360 people is that speaking of the word limitless, like you 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.320 mentioned the options are not limitless. I have a friend 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:43.080 named Jacob who told me that they were eight and thinking, like, 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.240 who's going to hire me? What job am I going 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.480 to do? What were you thinking when you were eight 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:49.040 years old? 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:52.280 I thought I'd be murdered? 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:53.000 Really? 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.240 Yeah, I genuinely believed that if I expressed myself, I 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.760 would be killed, and so in many ways, I don't 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.360 think I was allowed to have a childhood writ proper 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:08.520 because safety was my first and foremost preoccupation. So I 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.680 had to really think, is my voice going to betray me? 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.320 Are my gestures going to betray me? Are the people 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.960 that I'm friends with? Going to betray me? And even 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.760 if I didn't have a vocabulary to describe what I feared, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.640 I knew that it had to be feared. And that's 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.360 why I think it's a miracle that I'm alive, And 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.200 that's why I'm so happy and grateful for all the 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.240 strategies that my childhood mind developed to keep me alive, 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.120 because I don't know if I would have had the 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.680 strength now. I think oftentimes we say what would you 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:39.800 say to your younger self, as if we know better, 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.280 But I think it was the inverse for me, I 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.800 think my younger self was so courageous, so brilliant, and 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:50.560 so aware, pre verbal, pre language, pre identity. Knew that 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:54.240 people were threatened by their freedom and found a way 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.480 to incubate that freedom inside of themselves so that I 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.120 could live the life that I lived today. And I know, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.160 I know that everything that I am today is the 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.280 embodiment of that wild dream. 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.960 I try and when I prep for interviews, put myself 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.480 like I do a visualization and I put myself in 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:19.680 that person's body. And I was thinking, I wake up 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.240 every morning in a body and walk out into the world, 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.880 and in many ways am really affirmed by the world. 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.680 I feel emotional when I think about waking up in 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.960 a body that is constantly told no, you're wrong, you're 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:39.080 not good enough, whatever those words are. I read that 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:43.560 you said people would just call you ugly. Yeah, that 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:49.680 word itself is like, it's traumatizing. What does that do 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.920 to your psyche? Like, I know now you have vocabulary 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:59.960 to share what it felt like, but I'm trying to 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.520 understand what it's like as a kid to grow up 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:04.720 in that. 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.639 It was awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.160 and That's why I fight so hard. I'm not trying 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.800 to transmit the pain or make people suffer in the 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:18.760 way that I did. I'm trying to transcend it so 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:20.920 that no one has to go through what I went through. 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:23.639 I feel a lot of grief. 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:31.119 On how institutionalized violence has become in my day to day. 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.520 So say, for example, last week, I had a gig 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.720 in a state in the South, and I was wearing 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.640 a dress and heels because I felt like it. And 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.199 then I was like, oh crap, I'm about to go 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.720 to an airport. I don't want to get assaulted. So 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.880 then I had to change, wipe off my makeup, take 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:58.359 off my lashes, put myself into sweats. And then I 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.440 was like, I shouldn't have to do this, And then 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.240 I thought, how many people have to do this? Have 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.200 to think about every single thing they're doing in a 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.200 day and anticipate will I get killed? Yeah, And that's 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.359 my day to day. Where am I going to be, 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.239 what time am I going to be there, who am 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.840 I going to be with? And I have to develop 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.359 a way of cluing my friends into that, like, Hey, 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.960 I'm in a car right now and I don't feel safe. 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.440 Can I share my location with you, and I just I. 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:28.800 Think I have a lot of grief on what I 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.399 would wear, who I would be, how I would exist 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.959 in the world if I wasn't conditioned to fear violence 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.240 at every single moment, what I would have tried out, 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.000 what risks I would have taken, because I think it 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.680 actually it seeps into arenas that you wouldn't think are related, 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:50.520 Like I think that for example, I've read seen started acting, 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:57.640 and acting is extremely hard for me because I look 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.720 at the camera and I'm like, and then I have 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.480 to become aware of how deeply dissociated I was because 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:09.040 dissociation protected me from violence. So if someone was spitting 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:10.879 on me on the street, they weren't spitting at me. 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.000 It was something happening to a character. But now in acting, 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.919 I have to accept it's me and I'm responsible for 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.480 if I have resting bitch face or not. And that's 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.640 really hard and jarring because I'm like, oh my god, 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.840 I'm in control. I didn't know that, And so there's 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.919 so many parts of me that are conditioned by fear, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.000 and I'm I'm trying to heal, but how do you 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.760 heal when I get retraumatized? Over and over again. That's 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.679 what I also I am trying to wrap my head around, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:42.399 is to. 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:43.600 What we were talking about before. 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.400 I feel like I've reached a new zenith, like I've 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.920 done this, I accept me, and then I wake up 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.879 to ten thousand comments telling me that I'm disgusting, that 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.119 I deserve to be incinerated. I mean, some of the 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.520 most cruel things I've ever seen in the world. And 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.360 as much as I can say I love myself, when 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.080 you're up against that relentless tirade, how do you continue? 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.119 You right? Accessing this beauty can feel impossible in a 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.359 system that rewards conformity over creativity, But in my experience, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:16.879 a commitment to honest self actualization yields unparative, unparalleled peace 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:22.520 and conviction self actualization over a quest for beauty. I 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:27.720 think so many women can really relate to that. What 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:29.000 makes you feel beautiful? 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:36.399 I feel most beautiful when I'm telling the truth. Beauty 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.560 is less about a physical attribute and more about a 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:45.600 spiritual sense of living in my purpose. When I'm betraying 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.160 my purpose is when I feel most ugly. And that's 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.080 what's so funny. When people call me ugly, I'm like 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:55.320 you think this is ugliness. Real ugliness is self betrayal. 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.840 The real ugliness is a society that can't escape small talk. 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:03.840 Are there any tools or practices you use to challenge 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.320 the world's views of beauty? Because I think that's something everyone. 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:13.560 Can I guess I'm no longer interested in challenging I 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.159 was in the past, but now I've started to realize 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.800 I can't actually change other people's minds. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:20.760 Yeah, which is. 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.040 Like a real f you to my child to trauma, 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:26.520 because so much of being a child, for me was 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.159 trying to convince people to like me so that I 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:31.280 could be safe. Yeah, And so much of being an 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:35.240 adult is realizing people still didn't protect me, didn't matter. 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.760 So actually, instead of trying to convince other people that 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.720 I'm real or that I'm beautiful, why do I need 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:42.760 other people's validation. 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.760 I'm going to believe it myself. I'm going to live 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:45.400 my best life. 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.520 So I think so often people write about my work 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.959 as if I'm challenging beauty standards or challenging gender norms. 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.920 But I'm like those beauty standards, those gender norms don't exist. 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.320 So I'm not challenging anything. I'm just being myself. 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:03.919 Right. That's an interesting distinction to make. I remember, did 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.639 you ever watch girls, you know, like Lena Dunham. Everybody 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.919 would write like she's so courageous, and she was like, 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.399 I'm living in my body and I'm naked. I'm not courageous. 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:17.159 I'm just being right. And it changed the way people 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.639 saw things. It actually moved the culture ball forward. 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:21.960 I thought, well, I think you're diagnosing what's exactly wrong 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:26.040 in this moment is that we're politicizing being. Like so 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:30.080 often when I see people on their anti trans agendas, 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.840 I'm like, you're literally saying that we don't get to exist. 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.200 That's what this is about. That's all we're fighting for. 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.520 We're literally just fighting for the right to exist. And 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:44.560 yet people make that into an agenda, make that into propaganda, 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.000 make it into these high falutant concepts. All I am 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:52.320 asking for is the ability to exist. Why then, are 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:56.359 people so threatened by my mere existence? It's because it 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:59.040 clarifies that they don't know their own That's what it's 0:22:59.080 --> 0:22:59.919 ultimately about. 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:02.680 So I was actually going to ask you that because 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:07.680 I watch a ton of political shows, and nearly every 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:12.520 single one there's a topic on transgender rights, and less 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:17.119 than one percent of the population is transgender. The outrage 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:21.040 is so outsized. What is it hitting in people? What 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:23.680 do you think? What is it to me? I look 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.080 at it and I'm like, is it that they hate 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:29.879 women and so they hate femininity? Like? What is it 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:30.280 do you think? 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:30.639 Yeah? 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.600 I mean you've got your finger on the pulse here. 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:39.080 People are upset about trans healthcare and a country where 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:46.080 there is no healthcare. People areset upset about transgender participation 0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:51.080