WEBVTT - Oracle Signed Cloud Services Worth $30 Billion a Year

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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<v Speaker 2>Here's some news out on the tech side that got

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<v Speaker 2>my attention. I got the attention of the marketplace Oracle,

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<v Speaker 2>our good friends therea They signed a cloud service deal

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<v Speaker 2>that could be worth thirty billion dollars a year. I said,

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<v Speaker 2>we got to get on Ograno on this because this

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<v Speaker 2>cloud story, this AI story, is just a story that

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<v Speaker 2>continues to give to investors on Rograna, Technology analyst for

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg Intelligence Joints is here ONROK tell us about this

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<v Speaker 2>Oracle deal. Here. What's happening?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think it caught everybody by surprise. Now, we

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<v Speaker 3>knew that this was going to happen sometime over the

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<v Speaker 3>next six to twelve months, but we didn't know what

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<v Speaker 3>happened so quickly. We think this is part of the

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<v Speaker 3>Starfate contract. This is something that's going to flow from

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<v Speaker 3>open Ai. You know, the combination between soft Bank, Oracle

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<v Speaker 3>and open Ai. So if you remember, there was a

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<v Speaker 3>big deal, you know, just I think a day or

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<v Speaker 3>two after the president took office where Larry Allison and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, got on TV and talked about it. I

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<v Speaker 3>you know, we think this is a byproduct of that.

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<v Speaker 4>How is Oracle matching up with its competitors? I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>I know it's gained traction for renting out computing power

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<v Speaker 4>over the Internet, and of course it's been targeting a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of its clients that are focused on AI there.

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<v Speaker 4>But how does it look in comparison to peers?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think you know, it was really I mean

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<v Speaker 3>go back a few years. It was, you know, to

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<v Speaker 3>be honest, non existent about three years ago. So the

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<v Speaker 3>revenue was, you know, just a handful of billion dollars

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<v Speaker 3>or so compared to you know, somebody like an AWS

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<v Speaker 3>which is now running at a rounderd of over one

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<v Speaker 3>hundred billion dollars. So, but this, if you look at it,

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<v Speaker 3>in last year alone, oracles infrastructure as a service business,

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<v Speaker 3>which is what we look as the proxy for their

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<v Speaker 3>cloud infrastructure business, had revenues off about ten billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 3>So and then here comes a contract that in three

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<v Speaker 3>years and you know, they will have thirty billion dollars

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<v Speaker 3>annually from one just one customer. So you could see

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<v Speaker 3>just the overall what's happening with AI? What does really

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<v Speaker 3>need so much of computing power to run these models?

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<v Speaker 3>And this is you know again they are going everywhere,

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<v Speaker 3>But Oracle is you know, one of the bigger beneficiaries

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<v Speaker 3>over here.

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<v Speaker 2>Rich go rich, the world's richest people. Larry Ellison of

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<v Speaker 2>Oracle clocks in a number four two hundred and twenty

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<v Speaker 2>nine billion dollars, up thirty seven billion dollars year to date,

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<v Speaker 2>the stock is up fifty two week high, an A

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<v Speaker 2>rackets at an all time high. What's the bookcase for

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<v Speaker 2>Oracle here? It's just just another way to play cloud

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<v Speaker 2>slash AI.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so that's the bookcase. Definitely on that end, you

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<v Speaker 3>could see the gro thrates are going to pick up

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<v Speaker 3>so much more than any of the other cloud providers,

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<v Speaker 3>and partially because they're you know, the numbers are too small.

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<v Speaker 3>As I said, they're only at about ten billion run

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<v Speaker 3>rate or so in this case at this point. So

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<v Speaker 3>that's one. But on the other side, you know, they

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<v Speaker 3>will have to spend a lot on capex right now,

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<v Speaker 3>so that capex number is going to go up margins

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<v Speaker 3>are going to most likely take ahead. But frankly speaking,

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<v Speaker 3>in this market right now, it's all about market share

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<v Speaker 3>gains and which of the companies can actually benefit from

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<v Speaker 3>all these large language model training or inference. Basically, you

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<v Speaker 3>know they are you know, they're going everywhere. I mean

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<v Speaker 3>look at for example, code Weep their growth rate. The

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<v Speaker 3>SAME's the case with Microsoft, Azure or EWS. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>everybody in this particular ecosystem is going to make lots

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<v Speaker 3>of money.

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<v Speaker 4>We know, expectations remain high for a lot of these

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<v Speaker 4>tech firms, especially as we think about the AI push.

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<v Speaker 4>What do investors want to see right now? What's the

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<v Speaker 4>next step for Oracle?

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<v Speaker 3>I think a lot of this would become to execution

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<v Speaker 3>in this case, because you know, this is we are

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<v Speaker 3>assuming flawless execution in terms of data centered expansion. But

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<v Speaker 3>what if they are not able to get enough power

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<v Speaker 3>in there out there? I mean, what if we get

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<v Speaker 3>into a shortage in that area. So there's going to

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<v Speaker 3>be a lot to you know, I would say ups

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<v Speaker 3>and downs, not just for article, but everybody in the

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<v Speaker 3>equation where maybe the project gets delayed some funding issues.

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<v Speaker 3>Right now, everything is fine when it comes to funding

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<v Speaker 3>for these particular projects, but you know, those are the

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<v Speaker 3>things that we will watch for. But other than that,

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<v Speaker 3>I think the future is pretty bright for all the

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<v Speaker 3>cloud providers because of the workloads that are coming in.

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<v Speaker 2>And Rok Rana, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>A Ron Rana. He's a technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence.

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<v Speaker 2>Joining us via zoom from Chicago.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

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<v Speaker 2>All right, we all know about the AI story. The

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<v Speaker 2>tech industry is spending get jillions of dollars building up

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<v Speaker 2>their computing power their data centers. But you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently you have to power those data centers and that's

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<v Speaker 2>a huge demand on the grid. So everybody's trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out how are they going to do that. One

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<v Speaker 2>topic is nuclear, Believe it or not, Nuclear is being

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<v Speaker 2>considered heavily as a source of power for a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of these data centers. Our next guest is an expert here,

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<v Speaker 2>Stephanie Diaz, Senior Associate at BNF Okay, I was alive.

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<v Speaker 2>I was in high school with three Mile Island blew

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<v Speaker 2>a gasket and we had to go home from boarding

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<v Speaker 2>school talk to us about nuclear Where are we as

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<v Speaker 2>a country today with nuclear power and how can that

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps be a solution to some of the energy needs

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<v Speaker 2>of AI.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, So, currently we have roughly one hundred gigawatts of

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<v Speaker 5>nuclear installed in the US, and we haven't been building

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<v Speaker 5>much nuclear. We've built a couple of nuclear reactors in Georgia,

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<v Speaker 5>those are the last two, but we currently don't have

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<v Speaker 5>any under construction here in the US. Their hopes is

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<v Speaker 5>that that would change. The Trump administration, for example, has

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<v Speaker 5>an ambitious target to basically quadruple our nuclear fleet by

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<v Speaker 5>twenty fifty. Getting there will be quite challenging, though, considering

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<v Speaker 5>we really haven't built up the capacity to build on

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<v Speaker 5>that sort of scale yet.

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<v Speaker 4>So where are we in comparison to outside of the

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<v Speaker 4>US right now? Because I know we don't have a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of nuclear here, he mentioned.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, when we say we don't have a lot, I

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<v Speaker 5>think we actually have one of the biggest nuclear fleets

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<v Speaker 5>in the world. If I'm not mistaken. It's more of

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<v Speaker 5>a we haven't really been building much so it's really

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<v Speaker 5>hard to see how we all of a sudden start

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<v Speaker 5>flexing that muscle to build on that sort of scale.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you what I like for the nuclear I've

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<v Speaker 2>heard this story a few times is a modular nuclear

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<v Speaker 2>things little? What are they and how do they work?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so one of the a couple of well, there

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<v Speaker 5>are dozens of startups out there that are trying to

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<v Speaker 5>come up with new nuclear technologies. The majority of the

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<v Speaker 5>fleet that's out there globally is these large light water reactors.

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<v Speaker 5>What you're talking about is small modular reactors. And the

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<v Speaker 5>idea is that we can make nuclear reactors that are

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<v Speaker 5>much smaller, with the hopes that we can one require

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<v Speaker 5>less capital to build a reactor and two maybe be

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<v Speaker 5>able to do it faster and therefore overall be able

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<v Speaker 5>to deploy on a much bigger scale. The companies that

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<v Speaker 5>are doing that, I mean, there are dozens of them

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<v Speaker 5>out there, and they're currently trying to work with the

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<v Speaker 5>US Nuclear Regulatory Commission to get their designs approved so

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<v Speaker 5>that they can start constructing these as well.

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<v Speaker 4>So can you speak a little bit more about Trump's

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<v Speaker 4>ambitious plan here in regards to pushing this forward? Is

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<v Speaker 4>that different than the previous administration.

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<v Speaker 5>It is different from the previous administration. Biden already had

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<v Speaker 5>what we have been considered an ambitious plan for increasing

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<v Speaker 5>nuclear and Trump's school of four gigle or four hundred

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<v Speaker 5>giggawatts by twenty fifty is even more ambitious. One of

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<v Speaker 5>the things that the Trump administration has done is at

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<v Speaker 5>the end of May they issued for executive orders all

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<v Speaker 5>aiming to help bring nuclear online much more quickly in

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<v Speaker 5>a couple of ways. Mainly it's by expediting the regulatory

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<v Speaker 5>review of nuclear reactors. So currently you can take three

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<v Speaker 5>to six years to get through that regulatory gauntlet, and

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<v Speaker 5>the administration wants to bring that down to eighteen months

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<v Speaker 5>for all the different pathways. How they actually go about

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<v Speaker 5>doing that remains to be seen, though it's one thing

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<v Speaker 5>to say we can do this in eighteen months. It's

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<v Speaker 5>another to actually do it. You need to rewrite some rules,

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<v Speaker 5>you need to have staff who can review these applications

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<v Speaker 5>as they come in. So it remains to be seen

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<v Speaker 5>how they want to do it. But there's definitely a

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<v Speaker 5>significant push from the Trump administration to bring nuclear online.

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<v Speaker 5>But of course it's not just having push from government.

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<v Speaker 5>We also need pull from markets. We need to see

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<v Speaker 5>more customers sign firm commitments to make sure that these

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<v Speaker 5>reactors get built.

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<v Speaker 2>So if when a Microsoft says they're going to spend

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<v Speaker 2>a jillion dollars on data centers, is any of that

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<v Speaker 2>allocated to powering these data centers or is it? Are

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<v Speaker 2>they relying upon utilities and existing grid and all that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 5>No, we've seen not big tech companies. So Microsoft, Google, Amazon,

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<v Speaker 5>Metal all announced partnerships with different nuclear companies in order

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<v Speaker 5>to have power for all of these data centers. And

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<v Speaker 5>it's not just them, it's also lots of data center

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<v Speaker 5>providers of names that we often don't know, but they're

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<v Speaker 5>the ones who build data centers that other companies use Together,

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<v Speaker 5>they've been announcing something like thirty two gigawatts of nuclear

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<v Speaker 5>that they want to bring in here in the US

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<v Speaker 5>for context, thirty two gigawats in the US for just

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<v Speaker 5>data centers. Supposedly in the world currently we have sixty

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<v Speaker 5>five giggle watts of nuclear reactor of nuclear reactors under construction,

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<v Speaker 5>so they're talking about building a lot. So there's definitely

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<v Speaker 5>lots of them thinking about a big time companies thinking

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<v Speaker 5>about how they're going to power all of this, but

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<v Speaker 5>like I said, it still remains to be seen how

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<v Speaker 5>much of it actually comes online. Like I'll be more

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<v Speaker 5>excited when I see a construction permit get issue.

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<v Speaker 4>So where do clean energy advocates fit into this whole conversation?

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<v Speaker 4>Has there been a push against this at all?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's been interesting because nuclear for so long has

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<v Speaker 5>kind of been the pariah of clean energy, right of

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<v Speaker 5>like we know we can do it, but we haven't

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<v Speaker 5>done much of it. What we've seen in the last

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<v Speaker 5>couple of years has been a big shift towards thinking

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<v Speaker 5>more about clean base load power again, and that's why

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<v Speaker 5>nuclear and also geothermal have come back into the conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>Power.

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<v Speaker 5>Baseload power is basically think of it as like round

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<v Speaker 5>the clock power, So unlike solar and wind, which are

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<v Speaker 5>inherently intermitt and this is the stuff where like we

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<v Speaker 5>know we can run it as long as we want

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<v Speaker 5>to run it, right, like you take it down for

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<v Speaker 5>maintenance or something like that, but otherwise it can run constantly.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting, So is nuclear considered a reliable from that perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>reliable source of energy?

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<v Speaker 5>Correct? Because it runs constantly basically.

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<v Speaker 2>And where's it like Norra suggesting it. Has there been

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<v Speaker 2>any I haven't heard any pushback from the anti nuke

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<v Speaker 2>people out there. Are they just kind of capitulating that

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to need all kinds of energy going forward?

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<v Speaker 5>Or I mean, I don't, I don't know about that.

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<v Speaker 5>I think maybe it's it's a little harder to I

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<v Speaker 5>don't know, be against something when we're well, like I said,

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<v Speaker 5>we're still in the announcement stage. We we have a

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<v Speaker 5>lot more work to do before we get to seeing

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<v Speaker 5>what actually comes online when plans get built and all

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<v Speaker 5>of that.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, are there also just concerns when we think

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<v Speaker 4>about nuclear waste? You know, I think that when you

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<v Speaker 4>think about a lot of people pushing back, especially on

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<v Speaker 4>some of the bills that President Donald Trump is trying

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<v Speaker 4>to push and whatnot, how does that kind of come

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<v Speaker 4>into play, especially as you think about that against this

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<v Speaker 4>ambitious plan.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so nuclear waste is honestly not something that I've

0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.679
<v Speaker 5>spent too much time thinking about. More than anything, Like

0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.040
<v Speaker 5>I said, we are still here focused on like can

0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.240
<v Speaker 5>we even build it? Can we build it cheaply? Like

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<v Speaker 5>one of the things that we saw with the two

0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.240
<v Speaker 5>plants that we most recently built in Georgia was that

0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.000
<v Speaker 5>they came in significantly over budget. If we want to

0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:37.839
<v Speaker 5>build more nuclear in the US, like, one of the

0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:39.199
<v Speaker 5>big things we're going to need to do is bring

0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.760
<v Speaker 5>those costs down before we see any massive scaling in

0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:43.920
<v Speaker 5>this industry. Oh yeah, it's much more expensive.

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<v Speaker 6>Ya.

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<v Speaker 2>It's definitely great stuff. Thank you so much for We

0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.839
<v Speaker 2>appreciate its. Technie Diaz Jus, a senior associate at b

0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.839
<v Speaker 2>n EF. Those are the folks that have all the data,

0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.880
<v Speaker 2>all the analysis within Bloomberg about the energy transition that

0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.960
<v Speaker 2>this country and this world is going through. So they've

0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.400
<v Speaker 2>they're experts in that stuff.

0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Right now, you're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch

0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.680
<v Speaker 1>us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarclay, and

0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.000
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0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.760
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0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it seems like forever that leadership of

0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.440
<v Speaker 2>the stock market has been led by technology. Big tech

0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.199
<v Speaker 2>has been the leader. We've had a lot of volatility

0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.800
<v Speaker 2>this year. What if that's still the case? Michelle Martin

0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 2>joins US president for the firm's name Prosperity. It's an

0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Eisner Airport Company joining us from Minneapolis via zoom. So,

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<v Speaker 2>Michelle's we think about the volatility we've experienced just so

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<v Speaker 2>far this calendar year, is Tech still the leader for

0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:45.439
<v Speaker 2>this market?

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<v Speaker 6>Hi? Paul, nice to be here. So Tech is actually

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<v Speaker 6>not the leader as it relates to where we're at

0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 6>on a year to date basis. So what a difference

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<v Speaker 6>six weeks makes? Right? YEP? With the pullback that we

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.880
<v Speaker 6>saw in April and all the uncertainty around tariffs, we've

0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:10.520
<v Speaker 6>actually seen value stocks and international in particular IFAH really

0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.520
<v Speaker 6>pick up momentum, and we're we're actually seeing a market

0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.680
<v Speaker 6>rotation here, uh, with a move towards international value stocks.

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.040
<v Speaker 6>The Magnificent seven is is not the only game in

0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:22.800
<v Speaker 6>town anymore.

0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 4>So you said the Max seven is not the only

0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 4>game in town. We're seeing a bit of a rotation

0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 4>toward international and value. Where are you advising that your

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:30.280
<v Speaker 4>clients be.

0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:37.080
<v Speaker 6>We're we're maintaining some some core allocations to domestic and

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.880
<v Speaker 6>obviously growth is not gone, but but we are broadening

0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:47.720
<v Speaker 6>our allocations uh to international, Uh, primarily UH, Western Europe.

0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:54.079
<v Speaker 6>We're seeing Germany breakout. We're we're really seeing an investment

0:13:54.240 --> 0:14:00.200
<v Speaker 6>in defense, a little bit different look on policy, and

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 6>then we're also paying attention to alternatives and really making

0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.679
<v Speaker 6>sure that we have a lot of diversity in our

0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.400
<v Speaker 6>fixed income as well. So this is this is really

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.040
<v Speaker 6>about maybe scaling back a bit on some of the

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.640
<v Speaker 6>growth overweight and the SMP overweight and just looking at

0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 6>a broader market allocation Michelle.

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.240
<v Speaker 2>And in terms of fixed income here, you know you

0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:26.760
<v Speaker 2>can sit there with a two year treasure and get

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.200
<v Speaker 2>three in a court three point seven three percent. Is

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 2>that a place to be or should you be taking

0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 2>credit risk with your fixed income allocation?

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 6>We still have some credit risk. We've we've scaled back

0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 6>on credit risk a little bit, Paul, because we are

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:47.040
<v Speaker 6>seeing some potential for slower growth, which which obviously means

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 6>there's there's a bit of credit risk, but we're not

0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.720
<v Speaker 6>seeing big red flakes at this point. The duration that

0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.200
<v Speaker 6>we're seeing and what we're maintaining in our portfolios is

0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:03.720
<v Speaker 6>about five years. We actually went out in duration last

0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.120
<v Speaker 6>year and have maintained that we think that the longer

0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.920
<v Speaker 6>duration allows us to pick up more yield. And in

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:16.200
<v Speaker 6>many instances with our clients, we're holding individual bonds, so

0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 6>so that volatility in uh, in the bonds is not

0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:24.120
<v Speaker 6>as as not as real. We're also looking at more

0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 6>broader managers for fixed income where they can be more nimble,

0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.960
<v Speaker 6>take advantage of opportunities in the market duration, interest rate differences,

0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.520
<v Speaker 6>just just really be a bit more nimble. So that's

0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.680
<v Speaker 6>another area where we're seeing opportunities.

0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:43.520
<v Speaker 4>We talk about investment opportunities, uh, more broadly, where are

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.120
<v Speaker 4>you advising clients be are we thinking equities fixed income effects?

0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 4>Where are the opportunities right now?

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:52.360
<v Speaker 5>Really?

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 6>You know, from from from the FX perspective, I think

0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.720
<v Speaker 6>you pick up something when you expand your international exposure.

0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 6>That's a real simple way to do it. As we

0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 6>see pressure on the dollar with the tariffs, just by

0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.240
<v Speaker 6>expanding your international exposure, that's a way to pick that up.

0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.680
<v Speaker 6>On the fixed income side, I think because we're looking

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.720
<v Speaker 6>we're actually looking at fixed income as a pretty stable

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.080
<v Speaker 6>You know, you can get four and a half to

0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.880
<v Speaker 6>five and a half percent on core bond portfolios, very

0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.920
<v Speaker 6>high quality corporate bonds. So when you're looking at potentially

0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:33.320
<v Speaker 6>seeing a relatively slow growth in the second half of

0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 6>the year, this is something that's a pretty strong ballast

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:37.000
<v Speaker 6>to portfolios.

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Michelle, you mentioned alternatives. What do you guys like in

0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.760
<v Speaker 2>alternatives and what do you think a reasonable allocation should

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.400
<v Speaker 2>be to alternatives.

0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:52.800
<v Speaker 6>So, Paul, we typically for our portfolios, and again it

0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 6>depends on the client and kind of what their liquidity

0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.760
<v Speaker 6>needs are, but anywhere from ten to twenty percent in alternatives,

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.360
<v Speaker 6>about half of that allocation we look at, and liquid

0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:09.800
<v Speaker 6>alternatives things that have hedge funds or hedging buffers, even

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.119
<v Speaker 6>buffer ETF strategies can work really well to protect. On

0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 6>the downside, and another area that we're seeing opportunities and

0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:25.520
<v Speaker 6>dislocation in the real estate market, there's very strong opportunities

0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:27.840
<v Speaker 6>just because of the rise and interest rates over the

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:32.640
<v Speaker 6>last couple of years. Some developers and properties were kind

0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.240
<v Speaker 6>of caught flat footed, didn't forecast that. So we're seeing

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:41.080
<v Speaker 6>real buying opportunities, particularly in the multifamily space and as

0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.640
<v Speaker 6>well in the industrial space. So that those are those

0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.959
<v Speaker 6>are areas where again taking advantage of dislocations in the

0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.240
<v Speaker 6>market and then producting on the downside is where we're

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.160
<v Speaker 6>seeing the primary use of alternatives.

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Hi, Michelle, thank you so much for joining us. Really

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.680
<v Speaker 2>appreciate getting a few minutes of your time. Michelle Martin,

0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.080
<v Speaker 2>President over at Prosperity. Turn us from Minnea Apples.

0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 1>This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

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