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Speaker 1: Thank you for you thing Green kill Link hey man

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Speaker 1: young was say this before you ask your question? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I writ this book It's called to Kill a Mockingbird, right,

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Speaker 1: So I was kind of feeling like the modern day

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Speaker 1: Colin Robinson, and I could say that I can relate

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Speaker 1: to to him because better than anybody, because I know

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Speaker 1: what it feels like to be Falster accused. And then

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Speaker 1: that book like shows what happens to someone that looks

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Speaker 1: like in our conditional system.

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Speaker 2: This is Brandon Spencer. I've known Brandon since twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: when I first reported on his case.

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Speaker 3: Brandon, you were so young when you went to prison?

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Speaker 3: How old were you?

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Speaker 1: I was written it at nineteen, but when I actually

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Speaker 1: went to see saw on CFR, I was twenty one.

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Speaker 2: Brandon grew up in prison. He's been in over twelve years,

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Speaker 2: but has never lost the quirks and charm that make

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Speaker 2: him him the kind of guy who talks about himself

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Speaker 2: in the third person.

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Speaker 1: Grady's pressure, It's probably, I would say the modern Mandela

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Speaker 1: the Perst advance, as he's young man has shown the brilliance,

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Speaker 1: the forty tude and face of this adversity.

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Speaker 2: Brendan used to want to be an actor.

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Speaker 1: Like it will Smith. That was that was my hide

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Speaker 1: on it, especially when I was younger, the first stress

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Speaker 1: of delire, that was that was my story. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people told me I should do comedy. I'm not

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Speaker 1: really good. Was just free, uh, just standing up there joking.

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Speaker 1: I'm just a natural joker, so I could just say

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Speaker 1: stuff off to the grid.

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Speaker 3: Would you describe yourself as a goofball.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I believe I still am. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: in here say that I'm always laughing and joking. So

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, that's how you cope with this. I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, last at the best minute.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how to put it. He is like

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Speaker 4: a bundle of just positivity.

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Speaker 2: This is Claudia Salinas, Brendan's attorney.

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Speaker 4: I'm a pretty positive person and I'm always looking at

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Speaker 4: like best case scenario. But I think he even tops me,

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Speaker 4: and that's kind of tough to do.

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Speaker 2: But Brendon is also very serious, particularly about personal development.

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Speaker 1: There's this philosoph of psychology called post traumatic growth. So

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Speaker 1: we're saying that post traumatic growth enables us, at times

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Speaker 1: of difficulties or struggle or traumatic experience to create a

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Speaker 1: life for ourselves as more meaningful and more purposeful and

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Speaker 1: more fertility than ever. So when is until you only

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Speaker 1: makes you stronger. So I have that mindset that I'd

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Speaker 1: either be a victim and willow and self hatingful we

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Speaker 1: have reagent me, or I can use this time widely

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Speaker 1: and cultivate ourselves and develop ourselves to the very best

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Speaker 1: version of.

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Speaker 2: Myself from love of for good. This is wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 2: With Maggie Freeling bringis prisoner.

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Speaker 1: I've been wrongfully convicted for the.

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Speaker 2: Past twelve years today. Brendan Spencer. Brendan Spencer was born

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Speaker 2: November third, nineteen ninety two. He grew up with three

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Speaker 2: siblings in a well off, upper middle class household in Inglewood, California.

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Speaker 1: I was born in Inglewood, California, the city of Champions.

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Speaker 1: Both of my parents they both ran up for public

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Speaker 1: office and how to be respected, so I came from

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Speaker 1: a positive home.

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Speaker 2: I can say his family went to church together and

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Speaker 2: Brandon played soccer, baseball, and did martial arts. For vacations,

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Speaker 2: Brandon and his family would travel to Mississippi and Saint Louis,

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Speaker 2: where his parents were from.

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Speaker 1: So we kind of were like But he knew our

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Speaker 1: cousins and where we came from, and I had a

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Speaker 1: really good childhood. I can't really complain.

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Speaker 2: About it, but Brendan says, when he was twelve, his

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Speaker 2: parents divorced, So that.

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Speaker 1: Was pretty hard on me to see that separate. So

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Speaker 1: that kind of fed a key role in my life

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Speaker 1: a young I was confused. I kind of blamed myself, mate,

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Speaker 1: because my dad wasn't as round as much.

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Speaker 2: Feeling the weight of the divorce, Brendan started associating with

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Speaker 2: the wrong crowds. Inglewood, California, has a long history of

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Speaker 2: gangs and violence. In fact, Brendan was born just months

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Speaker 2: after one of the most infamous events in US history,

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Speaker 2: the La Riots. After a group of police officers were

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Speaker 2: acquitted of beating Rodney King, a black man, the city

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Speaker 2: erupted in anger. Protesters took to the streets and rioted

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Speaker 2: for days.

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Speaker 5: The heart of every American aches at the side of

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Speaker 5: the violence, deaths, and hundreds of millions of dollars of

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Speaker 5: destruction in Los Angeles. Yesterday, the violence spread to Atlanta, Seattle,

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Speaker 5: San Francisco, but the pain and fear is now being

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Speaker 5: felt all across this nation.

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Speaker 2: Over fifty people were killed and thousand injured. Brandon's neighborhood

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Speaker 2: was hit hard. When Brandon was growing up in the

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Speaker 2: nineties and early two thousands, the violent crime rate in

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Speaker 2: Englewood was significantly higher than the US average. Systemic and

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Speaker 2: structural racism forced people to seek other means of survival,

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Speaker 2: and gangs were rampant. So Brandon says, his parents worried

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Speaker 2: about him as a young teen upset over the divorce.

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Speaker 2: They thought he would be susceptible to the outside influence

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Speaker 2: of gangs, so they tried sending him to Mississippi to

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Speaker 2: live with family.

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Speaker 3: So what was living in Mississippi like?

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Speaker 1: Lower than California's kind of boring I was, says Caliboy,

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Speaker 1: Way faster out there.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like just the country too slow for Brandon,

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Speaker 2: So he went back to Englewood. It's what he knew.

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Speaker 2: It was home. He went to a few different schools

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Speaker 2: before graduating from high school in twenty ten with dreams

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Speaker 2: of pursuing acting, but gang life always wound in the background.

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Speaker 1: In that environment. You have to know the school so

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Speaker 1: you don't get robbed, so you don't get on every

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Speaker 1: day about where are you from? You have to know

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Speaker 1: these individuals to survive that area. In that environment, it

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Speaker 1: was more gangs and actively right on the corner from

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Speaker 1: my house, you know, So I have to know these

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Speaker 1: individuals just to go to the store or go to rallies.

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Speaker 1: I remember one time my mom was so scared to

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Speaker 1: get out the car at rallies one time. That's at

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Speaker 1: the corner where we lived. And I was like, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I'm don't worried about it. I go to school with

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Speaker 1: these duds and I'm going to do that. But I

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Speaker 1: get them perspective because it's scary. But you have to

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Speaker 1: know the schools, just like now my mom was scared.

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Speaker 1: I was able to get out the car and I

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Speaker 1: always have. But you're going along just getting a murder

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Speaker 1: from my mom and said, what's you how doing? Just

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Speaker 1: sit there and being goofy. That was goofy to me,

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Speaker 1: Like that life style, right.

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Speaker 2: Brandon says he was never part of a gang, but

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Speaker 2: they were almost impossible to avoid, and the repercussions of

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Speaker 2: growing up around that life would be impossible to escape.

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Speaker 2: In the summer of twenty eleven, Brandon went to a

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Speaker 2: party at the Proud Bird Restaurant and Event Center near

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Speaker 2: lax airport, and shortly after he arrived, shots rang out.

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Speaker 1: Did I start walking? I felt like somebody kicking in

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Speaker 1: my stomach and then taking my shirt off was like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, man like something in my stomach.

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Speaker 2: Brandon realized he'd been shot.

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Speaker 1: So I see the glus spreading out, and I'm just

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Speaker 1: laying there on that ground and sloby the same like

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Speaker 1: I was dying.

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Speaker 2: Emergency responders raced him to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan Medical When they saved my life.

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Speaker 2: However, they were unable to remove the bullet lodged in

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Speaker 2: his spine, so the.

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Speaker 1: Doctor said, we don't know how we saved you thought

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Speaker 1: you're not supposed to be here now.

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Speaker 2: That bullet got Brandon thinking long and hard about the

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Speaker 2: company he was keeping.

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Speaker 1: I want to know better people. I want to know

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Speaker 1: people that he had in my life.

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Speaker 2: So he decided to become a nurse.

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Speaker 1: I said, well, I want to get back. Hopefully I

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Speaker 1: can help save others.

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Speaker 2: Brandon applied and was accepted to UCLA's EMT program. He

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Speaker 2: planned to go to college the following year and was

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Speaker 2: also working a licensed security job. Brandon says, at eighteen,

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Speaker 2: he was living his best life.

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Speaker 1: I have all the security job I was working for

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Speaker 1: a stressing company part time out of four concrete, so

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Speaker 1: I was making like forty seven dollars an hours or

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Speaker 1: I was pretty fun and I had a girlfriend. I

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Speaker 1: thought I was in love at that time, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was awesome. They knew for me, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I going to look back at those memories because of

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Speaker 1: the only memories I have. But that was very cool

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Speaker 1: at that time.

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Speaker 2: But his world was about to turn upside down. On

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Speaker 2: Halloween twenty twelve, Brandon was three days away from turning nineteen.

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Speaker 2: He and his then girlfriend were looking for a Halloween party.

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Speaker 1: I never wanted to go out this night. That was

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Speaker 1: one of the things too, Like myke's girlfriend wanted to

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Speaker 1: go to this party. I wasn't really certain about it

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Speaker 1: because my birthday was a few days after, so I

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Speaker 1: was more focused on my birthday celebration over Halloween.

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Speaker 2: But they went out anyway to a party in Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: In Hollywood and it was a shooting. So we left.

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Speaker 1: And there is a party in USC.

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Speaker 2: The University of Southern California.

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Speaker 4: This there was around the time of when USC was,

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Speaker 4: you know, a top twenty five school.

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Speaker 2: This is Claudia Selina's again. She's a staff attorney at

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Speaker 2: the Innocent Center based in San Diego.

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Speaker 4: I always have known it to be really good. It's

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Speaker 4: a prestigious school, both the law school and the regular school.

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Speaker 2: We spoke two months ago about that night in twenty twelve.

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Speaker 4: So October thirty first, so close to this day of

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Speaker 4: the interview. Actually, so it's kind of wild that we're

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Speaker 4: sitting here talking about it. But there was a Freaks

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Speaker 4: and Geeks party at the USC.

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Speaker 2: Campus when Brandon arrived. There were a few hundred people

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Speaker 2: outside waiting to get into the party.

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Speaker 4: It seems like the party was popping because there was

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Speaker 4: a lion outside the door of people waiting to get in.

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Speaker 1: We were staying a line, and then so which just

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Speaker 1: heard gunshots? I just started learning.

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Speaker 2: Brandon says they were only there for about five minutes

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Speaker 2: before gunshots rang out.

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Speaker 4: There's about five gunshots, and then it turns out that

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Speaker 4: four people ended up getting.

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Speaker 2: Shot, DeVante Smith, Thomas Ritchie, My Sundowns, and Gino Hall.

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Speaker 2: Fortunately all survived, but in the chaos, nothing was clear.

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Speaker 2: Everyone was in a panic. Screaming, scattering, running for their lives.

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Speaker 1: Is real. So I like had that flashback of tenn

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Speaker 1: and I got shot and I just started running and

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Speaker 1: all that timely pay back.

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Speaker 2: As he was running, Brandan pulled off his shirt to

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Speaker 2: check if he'd been shot, but he wasn't.

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Speaker 1: And I get to the parking lot and the police

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Speaker 1: I put your hands up. I'm like, dang, what do

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Speaker 1: I do?

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Speaker 2: Police confronted Brandon in the parking lot. They were suspicious

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Speaker 2: about why he was running without a shirt. They took

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Speaker 2: his phone and went through it and found some photos

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Speaker 2: of him with guns and other photos of what police

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Speaker 2: thought were him flashing gang signs. So they took Brandon

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Speaker 2: to the station. Meanwhile, on campus police were asking questions.

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Speaker 4: They talked to two security guards and then they also

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Speaker 4: have like some other witness who provides She said that

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Speaker 4: she actually saw the shooting take place. She provides like

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Speaker 4: a general description as well. Once they had like those

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Speaker 4: three witnesses, they were pretty much drawn towards Brandon.

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Speaker 2: At the station, police question Brandon. They appeared to suspect

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Speaker 2: that Brandon had taken his shirt off because it had

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Speaker 2: red on it, a color associated with the Black Pea

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Speaker 2: Stones gang.

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Speaker 3: They tried to say that was because you were trying

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Speaker 3: to hide your gang colors.

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Speaker 1: YEA, nothing to do with gang colors. I was checking

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Speaker 1: to make sure they shot again and I had that

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Speaker 1: traumatic experience. So I'm sitting there like, I know I

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Speaker 1: didn't do nothing to home.

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Speaker 2: I could go home, but he didn't go home.

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Speaker 1: Well, then they come in there and like, can't be

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Speaker 1: pressing up against me, like hey you did it? Just

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Speaker 1: say you did it? I said, say I did what, bro?

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Speaker 1: And they're like, you know, say you did it. And

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Speaker 1: then there's a detective coming in. He comes in and

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Speaker 1: sits next to me and like rubbing my shoulder, like look, man,

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Speaker 1: we know you did it. So just goes and say

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Speaker 1: didn't pretentious and they come back and say, hey you did.

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Speaker 2: Brendan insisted he was innocent.

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Speaker 1: So then they paid my arms up and put him

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Speaker 1: in these avanilla envelope and I said, I what's this

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Speaker 1: and I was TSR R testing. I said, all he's.

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Speaker 2: Going, bro, because yea gunshot residue testing. When a gun

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Speaker 2: is shot, it releases microscopic particles onto hands and clothing.

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Speaker 2: But nothing came up on Brandon.

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Speaker 1: And they said, we'll tell us where the gun is.

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Speaker 1: And I said, what gun?

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Speaker 4: Bro?

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Speaker 1: You first the Parker like y'all tested me for the

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Speaker 1: TSRs me right, I had no gun, I didn't do nothing.

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Speaker 4: And then three hours later they ended up finding a

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Speaker 4: gun and it kind of all unwrappled from there and

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Speaker 4: they started building the case around him.

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Speaker 1: So that was it.

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Speaker 3: So you never saw the free world. Aga asked for that.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: Brandon was charged with four counts of attempted first degree

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Speaker 2: murder and went to trial in January of twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Deputy District Attorney Anchonella Nista Rescue told jurors that when

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Speaker 2: Brandon got to the USC party, he saw a member

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Speaker 2: of a rival gang, Gino Hall. She alleged that Gino

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Speaker 2: had been the one who shot Brandon in twenty eleven.

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Speaker 2: She told jurors, quote, this is a rivalry steeped in violence.

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Speaker 2: Claudia says, the prosecution's case really played up these gang allegations.

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Speaker 4: We were trying to count how many times the word

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Speaker 4: gang was used in this case, and it's it's a

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Speaker 4: ton of.

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Speaker 1: Time, gangang, gang.

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Speaker 4: The more times you hear gangs, and the more time

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Speaker 4: you hear violence and tensions between the bloods and the

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Speaker 4: crypts and whatever it is, it's that is very inflammatory

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Speaker 4: for a jury.

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Speaker 2: The prosecution also presented the photos they found on his

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Speaker 2: phone of Brandon with guns and of Brandon flashing gang signs.

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Speaker 2: They also introduced a photo of Brandon's chest tattoo a BS.

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Speaker 2: The prosecution said it stood for the Black Pea Stone Gang.

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Speaker 2: Brandon says it's just his name. But Gino Hall testified

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Speaker 2: at trial and did not identify Brandon as his shooter.

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Speaker 2: In fact, none of the survivors implicated Brandon at trial.

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Speaker 2: Only two security guards I d'd him, plus a star witness,

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Speaker 2: a young man named La Paul Lane. Lapaul was at

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Speaker 2: the party and testified that he had seen Brandon confronting Gino.

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Speaker 1: They see that last came back with gun and approved.

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Speaker 2: Premeditation, premeditated attempted murder. The prosecution presented evidence to back

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Speaker 2: up this beef between Gino and Brandon in the form

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Speaker 2: of exchanges on Twitter.

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Speaker 4: Tweets of children essentially going back and forth between one

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Speaker 4: of the victims that the prosecutor liked to use. But

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Speaker 4: a lot of these words in these tweets is a

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Speaker 4: lot of what they kind of call like fronting.

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Speaker 2: According to the prosecution, one of the tweets ended with,

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Speaker 2: you know, challenging Brandon to come and find him.

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Speaker 4: And they might be general, but they still have inflammatory parts.

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Speaker 4: Where then you get a police officer who gets deemed

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Speaker 4: a gang expert, gets on the stand and starts making

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Speaker 4: connections about what these things mean, what they see in

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Speaker 4: the field, and then they do generalizations of the peace

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Speaker 4: stone bloods fueling with the rolling forties, and so now

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Speaker 4: you have this like little bow that the gang experts

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Speaker 4: get to kind of put and you just see that

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Speaker 4: throughout most of my gang cases here in the office,

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Speaker 4: and it is quite inflammatory.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was here at at mar trial, sitting here

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Speaker 1: scratching my head when.

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Speaker 2: I did what Brendan insists. He was never in a gang.

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Speaker 2: He was a good kid with no record.

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Speaker 1: They show the pictures in me at the congressional black

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Speaker 1: coffees when I was fifteen. I've got Obama other pictures

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Speaker 1: with me where lacting waters and they're different congressional people.

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Speaker 1: But the court allows this lady who doesn't note me,

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Speaker 1: to tell twelve people lies that I'm just I'm this criminal.

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Speaker 1: I'm well documented stereo Typeas for someone that looks like

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Speaker 1: me is a game member a criminal in my jury

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Speaker 1: just goes off to that.

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Speaker 2: The judge even criticized the prosecution for this displaying things

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Speaker 2: to the jury without offering evidence. He said, quote, this

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Speaker 2: is an improper and unprofessional move on your part. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you're lazy, or you're nervous, or you

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Speaker 2: don't know how to do that. There was no physical

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Speaker 2: evidence linking Brandon to the crime. There were no fingerprints

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Speaker 2: on the gun. However, law enforcement did recover a partial

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Speaker 2: DNA profile.

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Speaker 4: They said that there was a one in forty chance

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Speaker 4: that that was a hit to Brandon, whereas the shirt

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Speaker 4: was a one in seven sextillion chance.

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Speaker 2: A one in forty comparison can include way too many

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Speaker 2: people compared to a conclusive ID like Brandon's shirt, which

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Speaker 2: was also.

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Speaker 4: So shirt there's no there's no doubt that it is

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Speaker 4: his shirt, Like there was no contest there that it's his,

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Speaker 4: but the gun. To go on the stand and tell

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Speaker 4: jurors that one in forty chance, like nobody really understands

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Speaker 4: what that means, and it's too many people that can

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Speaker 4: be included into that lumpsum, but they don't take that

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Speaker 4: extra step to kind of explain that at that level.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sitting here the whole time, like, well, the

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Speaker 1: evidence poofs, there's no TSR, my fingerprice on is done,

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Speaker 1: my DNA's on the gun.

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Speaker 2: But Brandon's defense was weak. His girlfriend, who was with

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Speaker 2: him at the party and could say Brandon wasn't the shooter,

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Speaker 2: wasn't called to testify even though she was his alibi,

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Speaker 2: and it's unclear why. Still Brandon was hopeful.

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Speaker 1: There's no video evidence, like, I'm sure he's come. It's

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Speaker 1: like the evidence pools that I had nothing.

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Speaker 2: To do with this, but stacked against police officers, key witness,

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Speaker 2: gang experts, and a climate of fear crime in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: Brandon was convicted of four counts of attempted murder.

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Speaker 1: Are we playing right now? Pretty serious?

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Speaker 3: Do you think the jury was thinking like, well, even

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Speaker 3: if he didn't do this, he's in a gang, so

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Speaker 3: he did something.

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Speaker 1: Bad exactly, I could kill Looking at my jury that

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Speaker 1: holiday thought, I didn't see Brandon. I didn't see the

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Speaker 1: security guard, the young man who'd never had a record,

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Speaker 1: the young man who a mayor of a city was

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Speaker 1: highly of.

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Speaker 2: Before sentencing, one of the survivors said that he knew

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Speaker 2: Brandon and he didn't think Brandon would do this. He

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Speaker 2: asked the judge to be lenient with his sentencing. A

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Speaker 2: sergeant in the LAPD's seventy seventh division, familiar with gang activity,

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Speaker 2: called Brandon a quote nice, respectable young man. Even the

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Speaker 2: mayor of Inglewood vouched for Brandon, but after three hours

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Speaker 2: of deliberating, the jury found him guilty and Brandan lost it.

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Speaker 1: I kind of like blackout. I turned the chair, and

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Speaker 1: what's pussling with the sheriff department. I told him he thought,

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Speaker 1: just killed me? You know that that was my mindset

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Speaker 1: at that time. I said, you want to just go

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Speaker 1: to shoot me right now because even took it too

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Speaker 1: far now And like that was like a powerless moment

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Speaker 1: in my life.

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Speaker 6: As to count three, a conviction of penal co Section

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Speaker 6: sixty six four.

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Speaker 2: On April eighteenth, twenty fourteen, judge sentence Brandon to fifteen

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Speaker 2: years to life on four attempted murder convictions running concurrently.

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Speaker 6: The minimum period of parole eligibility is fifteen years plus

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Speaker 6: twenty five years the life in accordance with penal COO

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Speaker 6: sections one.

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Speaker 2: Two zero two two plus twenty five years to life

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Speaker 2: for gun enhancements, all made worse by the alleged gang retaliation.

380
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Speaker 2: As the judge read the sentence, Brendan.

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Speaker 1: Solved fived this is to be kind of current.

382
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Speaker 2: Sitting there with his hands cuffed behind his back, he

383
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Speaker 2: banged his head against the table and he pleaded with

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Speaker 2: the judge.

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Speaker 1: IM sorry, but like the president, and I'm not a

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Speaker 1: bad person, but I made a stage. But I'm not

387
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Speaker 1: just some game begger that you try to betray me yet.

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Speaker 2: But it didn't matter. Brandon was sentenced to forty years

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Speaker 2: to life at twenty one years old for four shots

390
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Speaker 2: that killed no one. After his sentencing, a column came

391
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Speaker 2: out in the La Times. The author was Sandy Banks.

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Speaker 6: I'm a journalist who worked with Lost Handless Times for

393
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Speaker 6: more than thirty years, most of that as a columnist

394
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Speaker 6: covering issues that might be missed by others but that

395
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Speaker 6: were roiling the community.

396
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Speaker 2: The column held no punches in it. Sandy called out

397
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Speaker 2: Brandon for throwing a tantrum at his sentencing. She called

398
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Speaker 2: him a two year old and wrote that the last

399
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Speaker 2: thing Ela needed was more hoodlums carrying guns.

400
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Speaker 6: What got me there was that here was this young

401
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 6: man who had kind of a glowing resume except for

402
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Speaker 6: a couple of mishaps in his young teenage years, and

403
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Speaker 6: yet he was about to go to prison for forty

404
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 6: years for shooting into a crowd of kids, And initially

405
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 6: I thought that's really pretty dramatic and overkill, But then

406
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Speaker 6: I thought back to how many times people in my

407
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 6: community and the greater Los Angeles community felt threatened by

408
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Speaker 6: the young being with guns. I'm the mother of three

409
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Speaker 6: girls who were teenagers at that point, and I don't

410
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,959
Speaker 6: have enough fingers to count the times they had encountered

411
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Speaker 6: the potential for shootings or violence. And so I just

412
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Speaker 6: felt like he was a representative, in my mind of

413
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Speaker 6: all these young men who were Willie Milly shooting to

414
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Speaker 6: settle their scores and don't seem concerned about, you know,

415
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Speaker 6: the collateral damage.

416
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Speaker 2: Her column was merciless, calling him.

417
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Speaker 6: A fry baby, and you know what, there's a thug

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Speaker 6: with a gun, and Brandon read it and that gainst.

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Speaker 1: Us is actually coming disresprateful that I'm associated with it.

420
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Speaker 1: That's not who I am. And then that's there, like

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Speaker 1: a repeating with someone that looks like me, is that

422
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: their eggnorant, their dug, their criminals, and that hurts.

423
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 2: Brandon says his entire being was reduced simply to thug.

424
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 2: He stewed on Sandy's article. Brandon wouldn't be eligible for

425
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Speaker 2: parole until twenty thirty one, but he wanted to prove

426
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Speaker 2: everyone wrong. He wasn't who they thought he was, and

427
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Speaker 2: he needed to make sure he had the best shot

428
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 2: he could at parole, so he continued his education and

429
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Speaker 2: personal development.

430
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Speaker 4: He has done so much schooling, like probably more than

431
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 4: any of the other clients that I personally have worked with.

432
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Speaker 4: At least he's in the dogcare program, so he helps

433
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 4: train dogs for veterans and for people who want to

434
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Speaker 4: adopt these dogs.

435
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Speaker 1: I took it full ownership of my life. I've been

436
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: able to not and bring to the victims attitude that

437
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: became a constant learner. That's my nuphilosophy to remain a

438
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Speaker 1: lifelong learner.

439
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: Barny Flesher is striving to be the best version of

440
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: himself the whole time hoping something would break in his case. Then,

441
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 2: six years after being arrested, it happened. In twenty eighteen,

442
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 2: the prosecution's star witness recanted. In a written off of

443
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: David Lapaul Lane said that he was threatened by law

444
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: enforcement and the prosecution.

445
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 4: He actually had some pending criminal charges at the time,

446
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 4: and that is leveraged to be able to negotiate a deal.

447
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 4: I can't pretend to imagine what it's like to be

448
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 4: under those circumstances, So that is what he talks about.

449
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 4: In the declaration.

450
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 2: The Paul's Affidavid reads.

451
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 7: I was threatened by the detectives investigating the case and

452
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 7: by the district attorney prosecuting the case that if I

453
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 7: did not say what they needed me to say, that

454
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 7: the district attorney would intervene in my own pending criminal

455
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 7: case and cause me to be harmed or sentenced more severely.

456
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 7: I am sincerely sorry that I testified falsely against mister Spencer,

457
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 7: but I was afraid of what the prosecutor would do

458
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 7: to me if I didn't.

459
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 4: He also does describe some of the six pack identification

460
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 4: procedures from what he remembers and the specifics that he

461
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 4: has about that does raise a couple red flags.

462
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 2: Here's a reading of the affidavit again.

463
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 7: Detective Jones had me review at least three six packs

464
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 7: of photographs to try to get me to identify Brandon Spencer.

465
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 7: The first three six packs were of black men wearing

466
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 7: black shirts, except that in each six pack The photograph

467
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 7: of mister Spencer was at least twice the size of

468
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 7: the other photographs, and mister Spencer was wearing a red shirt.

469
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 7: When the detective asked me if any of the men

470
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 7: looked familiar, of course I pointed to the larger photograph

471
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 7: with the red instead of black shirt. After the detective

472
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 7: showed me another six pack of photographs, but this time

473
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 7: all the photographs were the same size, I was told

474
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 7: to circle an initial the photograph of mister Spencer on

475
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 7: the last six pack only. I don't know what the

476
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 7: detective did with the other lineups, but afterward I was

477
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 7: allowed to leave.

478
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 2: Finally, Brandon felt like he had something, but it took

479
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: years of fighting his case on his own to make

480
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 2: any headway.

481
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 4: He is his greatest advocate, and I don't know that

482
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 4: you know, had he not had that really strong advocacy

483
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 4: and positivity and willingness to help in his own case,

484
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 4: that he would have gone as far as he has

485
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 4: gone today and got the attention of the people that

486
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 4: he needs to get the attention.

487
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 2: Of, like Claudia and the Innocent Center, who officially started

488
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: working on Brandon's case this year.

489
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 4: He did have a recantations and so for us, you know,

490
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 4: you always got to look at those with some kind

491
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 4: of scrutiny. But it had a lot of information in

492
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 4: there about the six pack identification procedures, about some of

493
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 4: the potential coercion that took place during the identification and

494
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 4: investigation process, and so that kind of opened the door

495
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 4: into kind of just, okay, well, what's this case about.

496
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 2: The shooting took place on USC campus, a prestigious institution, They.

497
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 4: Had a reputation to uphold, and of course nobody wants

498
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 4: there to be just a bunch of shootings taking place.

499
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 4: But it certainly doesn't help that six months prior to

500
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 4: this Halloween night shooting, there was a prior shooting of

501
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 4: two USC students, Ming and Ying, who were actually shot

502
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 4: and killed on campus as well.

503
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: They were killed in an apparent robbery. So the rush

504
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: to arrest and prosecute someone in this second shooting became clear.

505
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: Claudia says. Then she focused on the sentence forty years

506
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: to life for a shooting where no one died, but

507
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: the judge actually gave Brandon the lowest possible sentence he could.

508
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: That's because of mandatory minimums sentences that require a minimum

509
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: prison term for certain crimes, regardless of mitigating circumstances. Mandatory

510
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: minimums are just one of many policies from the tough

511
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: on crime era that still exists today. Brandon was given

512
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: the minimum for each crime years to life on four

513
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: attempted murder convictions running concurrently, plus twenty five years to

514
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: life for a gun enhancement.

515
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 4: I think that, you know, the United States is working

516
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 4: the way it's intended to write, which is to create

517
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 4: casts of people that incarcerate people, specifically black and brown

518
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 4: people and other minorities. And so I'm actually sadly not

519
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 4: surprised that, you know, he got such a big sentence.

520
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 4: You know, a person in like a white supremacist type

521
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 4: of gang, you typically don't see them getting the gang

522
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 4: enhancement as much as your typical blood or crip gang.

523
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: Claudia points to examples from trial where this bias was

524
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: on display, like the photo and videos the prosecution shows

525
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: the jury of Brandon flashing gang signs.

526
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 4: If you grow up in a gang neighborhood, these are

527
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 4: the people that you're associated with, whether you know you're

528
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 4: put onto the game or not.

529
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: The gang signs. I would say that I was young,

530
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: just being goofy just hanging in and those pictures that

531
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: they use. I was like fifteen sixteen.

532
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 4: But nonetheless, you know, a jury doesn't necessarily know that,

533
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 4: you don't necessarily have a jury of your peers. So

534
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 4: what you're seeing is these kind of inflammatory pictures that

535
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 4: were allowed.

536
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: But Claudia says there's actually a new law in California

537
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: that could be beneficial to helping Brandon specifically in these avenues.

538
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: It's called the Racial Justice Act, and.

539
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 4: It's meant to target issues of the government or a prosecutor,

540
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 4: a judge, or a law enforcement officer, even an attorney

541
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 4: if they exhibit actual bias or implicit bias or any

542
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 4: kind of amagust towards the suspect or the defendant because

543
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 4: of their race, ethnicity, or origin. So this is great.

544
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 4: This is like a mode to be able to look

545
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 4: into gang enhancements. Are the prosecutors applying the gang enhancement

546
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 4: at the same rate for the same similar circumstances to

547
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 4: white people that they are to black or brown people.

548
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: She also says it's being used in the over criminalization

549
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 2: of rap lyrics.

550
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: Rap Lyrics are one of like the prominent issues that

551
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 4: are going on in California, they finally have some legal

552
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 4: standard to be able to attack those because we do

553
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 4: know that rap lyrics are an expression of art and

554
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 4: it does not always necessarily mean that this person did

555
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 4: this crime, and it is more inflammatory for people who

556
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 4: might not listen to rap music on a general basis

557
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 4: and understand that context.

558
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 8: If I was tweeting those lyrics and beefing with somebody else,

559
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 8: the assumption might not be she's in a gang because

560
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 8: I'm a white woman. Yeah, and he was a black guy,

561
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 8: and it's like, oh, he's tweeting me. Is he's a

562
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 8: black kid, He's in a gang?

563
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: Absolutely?

564
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 7: Yeah.

565
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 4: And then same with you know, the the guns that

566
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 4: were on the phone. You know, I can think of

567
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 4: many times that I've seen guns on my friend phones.

568
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 4: But they are lawyers and they wear suits, and so

569
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 4: it's not the same.

570
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: She also sees using the Racial Justice Act to examine

571
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: the way the prosecution used the tweets between Brandon and

572
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: Gino Hall.

573
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 4: Some of the tweets we had the word gun play

574
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 4: in them. In twenty twelve when this case occurred, Gunplay

575
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 4: was actually one of the artists that were like peeking

576
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 4: in the hip hop kind of industry at the time too,

577
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: so that context didn't necessarily get to come out at trial,

578
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 4: but it's all very important information. Are there different ways

579
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 4: that these tweets can be interpreted? And if so, then

580
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 4: was the gang expert, you know, using some type of

581
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 4: racial bias to apply these to him? They also tried

582
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 4: to use like his tattoos. I know tattoos are coming

583
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 4: up in the Racial Justice Act as well, and so

584
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 4: that that could be an option.

585
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: Claudia says she's excited to take on Brandon's case because

586
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 2: of how many potential avenues into court. There are some.

587
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 4: Cases that we run into where it's like, I can

588
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 4: believe in this person's innocence all I want, but there's

589
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 4: no areas of investigation. It was literally just the testimony

590
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 4: of like one person. You know, that's not the case here.

591
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 4: There's a few different red flags and areas that we

592
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 4: can pursue, and that always just makes me much more excited.

593
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: She's also going to look into more DNA testing since

594
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: science has advanced, and of course regular shoe leather investigation.

595
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 4: It's my hope to track down some of the people

596
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 4: that were involved so we can talk to them directly.

597
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 4: The security guards from the USC. They were pretty significant

598
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 4: prosecution witnesses, and I'd love to see some of the

599
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 4: circumstances around what happened with the six pack identification procedures.

600
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 4: You know, you just want to get out there, You

601
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 4: want to talk to the people and just figure out

602
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 4: what happened. Really, I think that's kind of what we

603
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 4: all want, is we want the truth to come out.

604
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 4: And that's exciting for me. That's why I got into

605
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 4: this work for sure.

606
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: Brandon has been in prison for over a decade for

607
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: a crime he says he didn't commit, and he continues

608
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: to work on himself. He says next he wants to

609
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: get his PhD.

610
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: I want to do my dissertation about post traumatic growth,

611
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: like I was saying earlier, hopefully become a motivational speaker

612
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: and help young men, you know, page their mindset and

613
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: understand that that that lifestyle and that way of hating

614
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: is hating.

615
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 2: And another person has also spent years reflecting on her mindset.

616
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: Sandy Banks has had time to look back on her

617
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: column about Brandon.

618
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 6: And I wrote a column and when I read it

619
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 6: now kind of embarrasses me because it was so nature

620
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 6: and I realized I was biased by the fact that

621
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 6: I were about my girls every time they would leave

622
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 6: the house, you know, when they're going to a party

623
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 6: or a football game or whatever. And that shouldn't be what,

624
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 6: you know, steering my opinion. You know, it's tough as

625
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 6: a columnist because you're supposed to have an opinion, and

626
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 6: we try to explain why we have this opinion. But

627
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 6: me being worried for my girls is not a valid

628
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 6: reason for making Brandon the symbol of game violence in

629
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 6: the city.

630
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, I released an episode about Brandon on

631
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 2: my podcast Unjustin Unsolved. A listener sent it to Sandy

632
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: after reading her article. Sandy saw the name Brandon Spencer

633
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: and listened.

634
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 6: I got to see him and hear him, and it

635
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 6: was a very different experience than you know, watching the

636
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 6: scene in the courtroom unfold where he's screaming and carrying on.

637
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 6: It was a young man who was kind of perplexed

638
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 6: himself about how he got there and who proclaimed his

639
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 6: innocence still and you know, and had things to back

640
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 6: him up.

641
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: So Sandy started taking of her own experiences as a

642
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 2: black woman, and I will tell.

643
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 6: You I live in the San Fernando Valley, which is,

644
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 6: you know, had reputationally very white. There have been times

645
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 6: that I have been considered suspicious. I can remember walking

646
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 6: home from the Whole Foods with Whole Foods bags, but

647
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 6: I had a hoodie on and my hair wasn't combed,

648
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 6: and I was you know, you know, and there was

649
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 6: a guy following me in the car, and I realized,

650
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 6: you know, I'm going to be on the next door

651
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 6: feed next time about the suspicious black lady who might

652
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 6: be homeless because she's walking around with shopping beds, you know,

653
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 6: and that would not happen to a white neighbor.

654
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm aware of.

655
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 6: That, and that's kind of you know, I should I

656
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 6: should have thought of that, even when I was castigating him.

657
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 2: Sandy and Brandon connected after she listened to my episode.

658
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: Well, she finally got to hear me and talk to me.

659
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: You know, I kind of emotional. I've got it cures

660
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: when I spoke to her that you know, how she

661
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: supports me, and she apologized to and that that really

662
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: was motivation.

663
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 6: I think we need to be we need to be

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00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 6: able to step back, to plunge deeper into the backgrounds

665
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 6: of the people that are you know, quote unquote doing

666
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 6: the shooting, because that's what's going to give us the

667
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 6: answer on how we be a less violent society. Talk

668
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 6: into them, listening to them, having programs in prisons to

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00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 6: help them see the light.

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00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 5: You know.

671
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: Sandy also spoke to Brandon's parents for context for her

672
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: most recent column about Brandon, titled I once applauded a

673
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 2: forty year sentence for a shooter, not now.

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00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 6: His parents are good people. They did the best they

675
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 6: can in our heartbreak into and are still working every

676
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 6: day to free their son. What he did, if he's guilty,

677
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 6: was certainly wrong, but his forty years in prison and

678
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 6: appropriate sentence for that when you have you know, child

679
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 6: molesters and you know other kind of guys getting out

680
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 6: after you know, five or six years, and I think

681
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 6: we need to kind of embrace the notion that these

682
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 6: are young people growing up in difficult times, and aren't

683
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 6: there ways that we can help and support them instead

684
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 6: of just you know, castigate them when they do wrong.

685
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what Brandon wants to do.

686
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: Now. I want to hope other young men not get

687
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: involved or caught up with that, or don't even be

688
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: associated with that, because me being knowing these people got

689
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,919
Speaker 1: me my license and I just want to go home

690
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: and live my life. I'm an asset to earn society

691
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: amount of liability. You know, one time I was suicidal.

692
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: I rather had to get than where I am today,

693
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, and to see who I become now and

694
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: is very inspiring, and I believe it's it's motivational for

695
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: some other people that we all say struggles in our lives,

696
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: but we're not designed by those only insistence. It's about

697
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: pushing forward, you know, looking at me out and rowloaded

698
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: by as system that everyone in the America, in the

699
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: world knows that is designed first someone that looks like

700
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: need to fail that. But all the odds right now

701
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: are backed against. This is the modern daily versus the lions.

702
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: I'm going against USC this is a billion dollar dollars.

703
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: I'm going against false this police department, and you know,

704
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: harnessing that and embracing struggle, and you know, don't don't

705
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: want over yourself paid, you know, I just I just

706
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: want my justice. I want to get free, and I

707
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: hope that we're able to speak on the facts and

708
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm able to be commerrating one day and receive the

709
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: justice I deserve.

710
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.

711
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 2: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the

712
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 2: links on our website to see how you can help Brandon.

713
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: This episode was written by me Maggie Freeling, with story

714
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 2: editing and sound design by senior producer Rebecca Ibarra. Our

715
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 2: producer is Kathleen Fink. Our mixer is Josh Allen, with

716
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 2: research by Alison Levy. An additional production help by Jeff Cleiburn.

717
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: Executive producers are Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wordis.

718
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: The music is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

719
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 2: Make sure to follow us on all social media platforms

720
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can

721
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 2: also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful

722
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for

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00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One. We

724
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in

725
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed by

726
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 2: the individuals featured in this show are their own and

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00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: do not necessarily reflect those of lava for good