Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a brid.
Speaker 2: Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Fridagg Fridagg
Speaker 2: brid Egg.
Speaker 3: Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the course.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. I'm your host,
Speaker 3: Andy Johnson. Today I am thrilled to be joined by
Speaker 3: one of golf's all time legends, Bernard Longer. Bernard won
Speaker 3: the Masters two times obviously, has been one of the
Speaker 3: most prolific golfers, had one of the greatest careers, particularly
Speaker 3: when you consider the longevity in the history of the sport.
Speaker 3: So was really excited to chat with him ahead of
Speaker 3: this year's Masters about his career, his experiences at Augustin National,
Speaker 3: and you know, just a lot about his golf life.
Speaker 3: So could have done this for hours and hours. Really
Speaker 3: excited for you guys to have listened to this one,
Speaker 3: and thank you for listening. As a reminder, we will
Speaker 3: be out on Sunday with our preview for next week's Masters.
Speaker 3: I can't believe it's here. We have been hard at
Speaker 3: work in the lab the last few months getting ready
Speaker 3: for this. I would urge you to go check out
Speaker 3: the Frida egg dot com. We just posted a whole
Speaker 3: by hole of Augustin National and it's cool. We put
Speaker 3: some time and energy into the website design on this one.
Speaker 3: It kind of breaks down the history of each hole,
Speaker 3: the strategy of each hole, famous shots on each hole,
Speaker 3: and has a wonderful set of photos from present and past.
Speaker 3: That's at the Frida egg dot com. Go check that out.
Speaker 3: That's kind of kicking off all of our coverage of
Speaker 3: the first major this year, so be sure to check
Speaker 3: that out. Before we get to Bernard, let's talk about
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Speaker 3: All right, let's get to Bernard longer. All right, Bernard,
Speaker 3: I I've got a big birthday coming up, and I'm
Speaker 3: hoping that golf and relatively high level golf for for
Speaker 3: my my expectations are part of my life as I
Speaker 3: as I age, I gotta ask you off the top,
Speaker 3: what are what are your keys to longevity of playing
Speaker 3: golf at extraordinarily high level.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a lot of things. I always say, it's
Speaker 2: like a puzzle. There's lots of pieces that have to
Speaker 2: fit together. I think I have pretty good genes. I
Speaker 2: think I have got given talent, a good work ethic.
Speaker 2: I've worked out all my life. Enjoy working out, I
Speaker 2: enjoy practicing hitting balls and all of that, and I
Speaker 2: enjoy competing. So you need all of that and probably
Speaker 2: more to be successful. Because you know, I say, the
Speaker 2: champions Tour is maybe the most competitive tour there is.
Speaker 2: And you may not agree, but I tell you why,
Speaker 2: because there's only seventy eight guys from the whole world
Speaker 2: who can play on this tour. Seventy eight guys. There's
Speaker 2: no fallback. There's no other tour, you know. The European
Speaker 2: Tour has a few senior events, but it's not even
Speaker 2: comparable to the competition or the prize money or any
Speaker 2: of the other stuff. So everybody that can play golf
Speaker 2: very well over fifty will try and get on the
Speaker 2: Champions Tour. And there's always young guys coming and some
Speaker 2: of the other guys have to leave when you know,
Speaker 2: like last couple of weeks ago we had Sec Johns
Speaker 2: and join us Ben Crane, you know, And there's every
Speaker 2: other week every month, there's a few new ones, and
Speaker 2: it's difficult to hang on to be one of those
Speaker 2: seventy eight. But I've enjoyed it immensely. I still play
Speaker 2: a pretty full schedule and just enjoy the camaraderie we
Speaker 2: have on this tour. As I said, I work out,
Speaker 2: and you know, I practice a little less than I
Speaker 2: used to. My body can't take it. I can't hit
Speaker 2: five six son of balls anymore, I would be hurting,
Speaker 2: So I spend more time recovering and more time stretching
Speaker 2: and trying to loosen up and be ready when the
Speaker 2: tournament starts.
Speaker 3: The thing about the Champions Store too, I imagine, And
Speaker 3: I'm curious your perspective on this is that different players
Speaker 3: are at different points in their career. Where you have
Speaker 3: some guys that are coming out there that haven't had
Speaker 3: the huge accomplishments of others. Do you see a different
Speaker 3: level of competitiveness depending on you know, obviously people's mental archetype,
Speaker 3: but also what they've done in their career.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you know, there may be five or six
Speaker 2: guys out here that have had tremendous success when they
Speaker 2: were younger, and they benefit from that and they may
Speaker 2: not be quite as competitive. But I would say three
Speaker 2: fours off the field or more are extremely competitive. They're hungry,
Speaker 2: they want to extend their career. Some of them may
Speaker 2: even need the money, I don't know, and they need
Speaker 2: to perform. They need to finish in the top thirty
Speaker 2: six to have a job next year, and that's hard
Speaker 2: to do when you play against Hall of famers and
Speaker 2: major winners and very accomplished players from all over the world.
Speaker 3: You just hit on that you worked out basically your
Speaker 3: whole career. What you were hitting the gym in the eighties.
Speaker 3: What percentage of the players your peers would you say.
Speaker 1: We're working out regularly?
Speaker 3: And how do you think your fitness regimen has changed
Speaker 3: over the last you know, forty years?
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. I think in the eighties there was
Speaker 2: maybe thirty percent of the guys who were working out seriously.
Speaker 2: Now I would say ninety five. So it's changed dramatically.
Speaker 2: And I call that the Tiger Woods effect because when
Speaker 2: he came out and dominated, everybody was trying to find
Speaker 2: out why and see so good? Why see so long?
Speaker 2: Why see mentally so tough? And you know, every percentage
Speaker 2: you can gain somewhere in your game may save a
Speaker 2: stroke and may make you more successful. So that's when
Speaker 2: people really paid attention. I mean, Gary Player showed us
Speaker 2: the way many years ago, and you can see the
Speaker 2: benefit now. If you compare Gary Player to Check Nicholas.
Speaker 2: You know, Gary player is still very mobile, very fit
Speaker 2: for his age. He's ninety years old, but the guy
Speaker 2: can still do all sorts of things like a thirty
Speaker 2: year old. It seems like while most ninety year olds
Speaker 2: they can hardly walk or shuffle along and just they're
Speaker 2: not flexible, they're not strong. So Gary Player was really
Speaker 2: to me. He was always my golfing idol, and I
Speaker 2: think he set a great example that many of us
Speaker 2: are following now.
Speaker 3: With Gary Player being your idol growing up. Like, what
Speaker 3: was it about his game that drew you to him?
Speaker 3: I obviously am in the Tiger era, and I could
Speaker 3: go on about what I loved about Tiger growing up,
Speaker 3: But what about Gary Player for you growing up?
Speaker 1: Was the thing that drew you to him?
Speaker 2: Well, there were a number of things. First of all,
Speaker 2: when I met him, he was very kind to me
Speaker 2: and very helpful. But he was my size. He swung
Speaker 2: a little flatter than most people did in those years.
Speaker 2: He comes from a country where golf is not very popular,
Speaker 2: and he had to really work hard to make it,
Speaker 2: you know, to Europe, to America, to the highest stage.
Speaker 2: He had to travel all over the place to get
Speaker 2: there with wife and kids in those days with apartheid,
Speaker 2: extremely difficult for him. So I just kind of identified
Speaker 2: with him a little bit. And fitness was a part
Speaker 2: of it. You know, I'm only five eight and he
Speaker 2: was about five eight or something like that. We're competing,
Speaker 2: trying to compete against these six two sixty four athletes
Speaker 2: who have a huge advantage just by size. But those
Speaker 2: were the main attractions. And you know, now we're both
Speaker 2: believers in Jesus Christ and family people and other things
Speaker 2: were philanthropic. We realize how much we've been blessed and
Speaker 2: we give back and help those that are in need.
Speaker 3: With with growing up in Germany obviously not particularly before
Speaker 3: you you know, rose to the top of the golf world,
Speaker 3: not at all a golf hotbed. What was it like
Speaker 3: growing up in a place where golf was a very
Speaker 3: you know, unpopular sport and becoming a golf icon and
Speaker 3: seeing the country's golf popularity grow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very different than I remember when I
Speaker 2: was about ten years old. We didn't even have one
Speaker 2: hundred golf courses in Germany, and there was a very
Speaker 2: leadish kind of game. We had maybe, as I said,
Speaker 2: eighty ninety golf clubs, and they were all very private,
Speaker 2: so difficult to get into the game. On top of that,
Speaker 2: it was expensive and people had no idea what golf was.
Speaker 2: You know, if you said, well, I'm I'm a golfer.
Speaker 2: They thought you're playing putt putt or miniature golfer, you know,
Speaker 2: something like that. So it was not easy to break through.
Speaker 2: I give you a quick example. When I was fifteen,
Speaker 2: I finished my basic schooling of nine years and went
Speaker 2: to the Institute of job Placement. I had my two
Speaker 2: parents with me. I was fifteen. The guy across the
Speaker 2: desk was the so called you know person who was
Speaker 2: going to advise me. So he asked me, what do
Speaker 2: you want to do with your life, young man? I said,
Speaker 2: I want to be a golf professional, and he looked
Speaker 2: at me like I'm from a different planet, he said.
Speaker 2: He left the room and came back and said, actually,
Speaker 2: it's not a recognized profession, and I highly recommend for
Speaker 2: you to learn some decent so you know, that's what
Speaker 2: golf was like in Germany.
Speaker 3: And we have any recommendations for you. Was there a
Speaker 3: job he recommended you do instead of being a golf thro.
Speaker 2: Well, he said, why don't you learn a proper trade,
Speaker 2: you know, and get something, learn something, and then in
Speaker 2: three or four years of five, whenever you've achieved that
Speaker 2: and you still want to be a golf professional, maybe
Speaker 2: you can do that, and I said, I want to
Speaker 2: waste three or five years. I had a job offer
Speaker 2: as an assistant pro in Munich, and I somehow convinced
Speaker 2: my parents. I guess I was pretty stubborn. That's all
Speaker 2: I wanted to do. That was my dream. And they
Speaker 2: drove me over there, got the interview, and then got
Speaker 2: the job.
Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome.
Speaker 3: You know, it's been forty four years. Really, you know,
Speaker 3: obviously there's been two years in there that you didn't.
Speaker 1: Play the Masters.
Speaker 3: How are you feeling about returning to Gusta National without
Speaker 3: playing for the first time in forty four years.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you in a couple of weeks. It's going
Speaker 2: to be bittersweet. I imagine it's going to be strange to,
Speaker 2: you know, go out near the putting green or the
Speaker 2: first tea without the golf club and just be walking
Speaker 2: around knowing you're never going to compete again in this
Speaker 2: wonderful tournament. But I knew sooner or later it would
Speaker 2: be time to call it quits. I didn't want to
Speaker 2: make a fool of myself out there. The Cortius gotten very,
Speaker 2: very long. I'm't getting shorter. They mow the fairways from
Speaker 2: the green toward the tea box, so the grain of
Speaker 2: their fairways into you. The ball doesn't run as much
Speaker 2: as it does in other places. And the greens are
Speaker 2: really designed to be hit with eight nine irons, shorter
Speaker 2: to medium irons, and I don't have any of those
Speaker 2: clubs anymore, and they're around the gust. I'm hitting three
Speaker 2: woods and eyebrids and the ball just doesn't stop. So
Speaker 2: I hit a perfect shot, it hits the green somewhere
Speaker 2: and bounces over and that's you don't want to be
Speaker 2: over those greens.
Speaker 3: No, but some bad spots over the greens. What would
Speaker 3: you say is the worst spot to be at Augusta
Speaker 3: nashvill What if you if I if I placed a
Speaker 3: ball for you, and you know this is the worst
Speaker 3: you could possibly place a ball.
Speaker 2: Well, there's many of them. Depending on the pin position,
Speaker 2: you could pretty much choose one on every green, like
Speaker 2: for instance, number sixteen. If you miss the green right
Speaker 2: and the pin is right, you have no chance. You
Speaker 2: just you're in the bunker, or you're lucky to keep
Speaker 2: it on the green and it doesn't go on the water.
Speaker 2: If you hit a good chat and it's like that fourteen,
Speaker 2: if the pin is left, you miss the green left,
Speaker 2: you're facing a chip that slopes away from you and
Speaker 2: you have no green, and it goes forty to fifty
Speaker 2: sixty feet. Similar on nine if you go along there.
Speaker 2: I potted off the ninth green once the pin was
Speaker 2: up front. It's a three tier green. I was in
Speaker 2: the back. I hit it maybe three inches too hard
Speaker 2: afore and it went forty yards down the fairway. I mean,
Speaker 2: it makes you look like a fool, but it's a
Speaker 2: fine line there.
Speaker 3: Why is it that we see more experienced players have
Speaker 3: such an advantage at Augusta National all the.
Speaker 2: Very reasons I just told you. You have to position
Speaker 2: your second shot. It often starts with a T shot.
Speaker 2: If you hit the T shot in the right part
Speaker 2: of the fairway to the right side or the left side,
Speaker 2: you have a better angle. I think Augusta was all
Speaker 2: designed about angles initially. Then they introduced the semi cut,
Speaker 2: or I call it rough. So the fairway is about
Speaker 2: half the size now than it used to be, so
Speaker 2: they took some of the angles away. But angles are
Speaker 2: still important because you have a better angle into these screens,
Speaker 2: you can position your second shot. If you hit it
Speaker 2: perfectly or execute it well, you can position it below
Speaker 2: the hole or at least levels, so you don't have
Speaker 2: too many downhill putts, and that's the goal. It's really
Speaker 2: to me a second shot golf course, or it used
Speaker 2: to be. Now now it's pretty tight driving as well,
Speaker 2: because of the introduction of planting five thousand trees some
Speaker 2: years ago made it a lot tighter, and then the
Speaker 2: inclusion of the rough, which also makes it harder to
Speaker 2: put spin on the ball. So those are the things
Speaker 2: that are extremely important. And somebody's played the Masters several
Speaker 2: times of the course understands that and knows, well, if
Speaker 2: the pin is here, I can't go there. I got
Speaker 2: to play on this side of it or short of it,
Speaker 2: or whatever it is to have a chance to make
Speaker 2: two pots to get up and down.
Speaker 3: You won your first Masters and your third appearance of
Speaker 3: the Masters. What do you think you understood about augusta
Speaker 3: earlier than most players.
Speaker 2: Well, I got a very harsh lesson the first time
Speaker 2: I played. I missed the cut by one. I had
Speaker 2: eleven three puts and they had the ten shot. So
Speaker 2: if I wouldn't have three potted in the first two rounds,
Speaker 2: I would have been tied for the lead. But I
Speaker 2: was eleven behind the leader and I missed the cut.
Speaker 2: So when I as I look back at my two rounds,
Speaker 2: I'm going, this is crazy. You've never had eleven three
Speaker 2: pots in thirty six holes. You've got to study these
Speaker 2: screens and figure out why this happened and you know
Speaker 2: how to avoid that in the future. And that was
Speaker 2: the key when I paid much more attention to where
Speaker 2: to place my second shot, so I wouldn't three pot,
Speaker 2: I would hopefully one pot more than three.
Speaker 3: Put what's an example of a hole where you know
Speaker 3: positioning really matters at Augusta in your opinion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question, and I would say every one of them,
Speaker 2: every single green. I'm not kidding. You know, you take
Speaker 2: a simple hole like the third hole, a short part
Speaker 2: for you need to be left of the hole. If so,
Speaker 2: you have an apple putt. If and if the pin
Speaker 2: is on the left side of the green four yards
Speaker 2: from the edge, it's hard to be left of the
Speaker 2: hole right you have four yards to mess with with
Speaker 2: a nine iron or something coming in or wedge whatever.
Speaker 2: So it's literally you know, first green, you want to
Speaker 2: be shorts, you have an upple putt. If you long,
Speaker 2: you have a download putt. Same on the second third
Speaker 2: you got to be left. Fourth, you've got to be
Speaker 2: short and left. It's on and on and on, same
Speaker 2: on the sixth to part three and the seventh. It's
Speaker 2: pretty much I would say sixteen out of the eighteen
Speaker 2: greens where you have a huge advantage or disadvantage depending
Speaker 2: on where your ball ends up with iron shut. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I you know, I was watching you last year play.
Speaker 3: You know, one of my favorite things to do is
Speaker 3: to go out and watch the more experienced players play
Speaker 3: Augusta because you know, like at the length you're playing,
Speaker 3: and as you described the greens that aren't receptive, you
Speaker 3: have to play to the best spots in order to score.
Speaker 1: And it amazed me.
Speaker 3: On the second hole, you know, the pin was kind
Speaker 3: of kind of in the back left bowlish area, and
Speaker 3: you played, you laid your ball up, so is the
Speaker 3: furthest right I've ever seen somebody lay the ball up,
Speaker 3: and you kind of got jammed because the fringe held
Speaker 3: your approach shot up from funneling back in. But I
Speaker 3: just saw it was just an amazing mastery. Like as
Speaker 3: your power diminished, as.
Speaker 1: The the the the golf holes got longer.
Speaker 3: Were there holes that you felt like changed the most
Speaker 3: for how you had to play them.
Speaker 2: Absolutely when they introduced more links. You take the whole
Speaker 2: number seven, they lengthen it by seventy five yards. It
Speaker 2: used to be in my prime, I would hit a
Speaker 2: one iron off the tee and a nine iron o wedge.
Speaker 2: Now I'm hidden driver for sure. And I got a
Speaker 2: five iron off a downhill lie into an uphill green
Speaker 2: that is twelve to fourteen yards deep, and that's very punishing.
Speaker 2: That's another example. If you go along there you have nothing,
Speaker 2: You got nothing. You know, you gotta be short. Maybe
Speaker 2: in the front bunker you might have a chance to
Speaker 2: get up and down, but if you're long, you pretty
Speaker 2: much have bogie written on the score card. Not the
Speaker 2: whole would be number five. They've lengthened that tremendously. That
Speaker 2: used to be a drive and eight iron. Now I'm
Speaker 2: hitting drive a three wood just about every time. The
Speaker 2: last year it is. And that's not a green to
Speaker 2: come in with a three wood, just tough. It's similar eleven.
Speaker 2: You know, eleven is on the best day of four
Speaker 2: iron on the worst day. Last year, I had a
Speaker 2: hit driver driver one time and I got it to
Speaker 2: the front edge. And you have water left and all
Speaker 2: sorts of trouble. So it's it's that long. You know,
Speaker 2: some people even seventeen and eighteen, it's often anywhere from
Speaker 2: a three wood on eighteen to three iron into the green,
Speaker 2: and seventeen is anywhere from a six iron to a
Speaker 2: two hybrid into greens that are meant for eight and
Speaker 2: nine irons.
Speaker 3: Obviously, you had the first best cut at the Masters,
Speaker 3: you go on to win, you know, two Masters later,
Speaker 3: three years later. You know, we've seen players that seem
Speaker 3: to have this charmed existence at Augusta National over the
Speaker 3: course of their career. I would place you in this bucket.
Speaker 3: You contended deep into your career where you had chances
Speaker 3: to win late in your career. You will obviously won
Speaker 3: two Green jackets, while others it becomes somewhat of a
Speaker 3: torture chamber for them in the sense of like everything
Speaker 3: goes wrong. You know, you think about the likes of
Speaker 3: Ernie Els and some of the bad beats he had,
Speaker 3: Rory McElroy until he won, until he won last year.
Speaker 3: You know, people had described it as this is this
Speaker 3: is a horror horror, a place of horror for him.
Speaker 3: What and obviously you know, famously Greg Norman would would
Speaker 3: come to this, come into this group.
Speaker 1: What about it.
Speaker 3: Creates that dynamic where certain players it seems like everything
Speaker 3: goes right and other players that can just you know,
Speaker 3: it just goes wrong for him.
Speaker 2: It's a wonderful question, and I'm not sure I have
Speaker 2: the answer, but you mentioned some names. You know, Greg Norman,
Speaker 2: he was definitely one of the dominating players. He had
Speaker 2: the game, and so does Ernie else. But that course, uh,
Speaker 2: they hit the ball long, they hit it high, they
Speaker 2: can spin it. They got a wonderful touch around the
Speaker 2: short the short game, you know, the potter. They're both
Speaker 2: world number ones and at times in his career and
Speaker 2: had chances to win, and specifically Greg Norman, you know,
Speaker 2: he blew several chances there. And I'm not sure why.
Speaker 2: You know, there's like you said, maybe it gets harder
Speaker 2: and harder the longer you don't win. You know, the
Speaker 2: bad memories come back and haunt you, and it's hard
Speaker 2: to stay focused. But as I said at Augusta, the
Speaker 2: golf course, it's a very fine line of shooting sixty
Speaker 2: five and maybe seventy five. You could play really good
Speaker 2: golf and shoot seventy five and you look back and go, man,
Speaker 2: I've played great golf. What happened? You know? Just you
Speaker 2: were foot off here, a couple of inches there, you
Speaker 2: made a bad judgment here or something. It takes very
Speaker 2: very little. It's just that fine of a line around
Speaker 2: those screens. And then you know you have breaks like
Speaker 2: remember Fred Couples when he won. You know, when the
Speaker 2: ball stayed up on twelve. I mean that ball goes
Speaker 2: in the water ninety nine out of one hundred, actually
Speaker 2: one hundred out of one hundred, but his student and
Speaker 2: he made par and he won the tournament. If that
Speaker 2: rolls back in the water, he makes probably double or something.
Speaker 2: And you know, mentally that's hard to digest. Who knows
Speaker 2: what would have happened. But you need a good break
Speaker 2: here and there to win. I had a wonderful break
Speaker 2: in eighty five when I I went for the green
Speaker 2: on thirteen with a three wooden of a bad line
Speaker 2: in the fairway, and it never got highed. My three
Speaker 2: wood never got hired in two or three feet off
Speaker 2: the ground, and it's heading toward race creek and it
Speaker 2: hit little pump there, a little hill to short a
Speaker 2: race creek bounced over the creek onto the green and
Speaker 2: I made about a forty foot or some for eagle.
Speaker 2: You know, if that ball doesn't hit that hill, I
Speaker 2: might make par or bogie or something, and the whole
Speaker 2: thing would it turned out differently.
Speaker 3: When you reflect on your career, I mean, what you
Speaker 3: just hit on is one of the crazy things about
Speaker 3: you know, there are a lot of crazy things about
Speaker 3: the profession of a playing competitive golf for a living.
Speaker 3: One thing that you know, as someone who watches weekend
Speaker 3: week out that is illuminating to me the more and
Speaker 3: more I watch is the idea of how like random
Speaker 3: bounces often dictate tournaments and you get yourself in contention
Speaker 3: and it's a break here or break there at the
Speaker 3: right time that seemed to do it. As a player,
Speaker 3: has that gotten easier to kind of come to grips
Speaker 3: with when you fall short as you've gotten older, or
Speaker 3: or does it drive you as crazy as it did
Speaker 3: at a younger age.
Speaker 2: Well, it always drives you crazy when you get a
Speaker 2: bad break. You know, you hit a beautiful seven nine,
Speaker 2: hit the flag stick and it bounces off and goes
Speaker 2: in the water and you make double bogie. You know,
Speaker 2: if it had missed a flag pole. He might have
Speaker 2: made birdie something like that. But I think you learn
Speaker 2: as you get older that you're going to get good
Speaker 2: breaks and bad breaks, and hopefully they'll even out somewhere
Speaker 2: down the road, and so you you just have to
Speaker 2: take it there. There's no other way, you know, It's
Speaker 2: the game of golf. You can hit a tree and
Speaker 2: sometimes it bounces away and goes out of bounds. Next
Speaker 2: time it bounces in and ends up near the green
Speaker 2: or on the fairway. It's out of our control. And
Speaker 2: as I said, they'll probably even out over your career.
Speaker 1: That's the way I try and look at it. Is
Speaker 1: it evens out.
Speaker 3: Is there one terrible break that you got in your
Speaker 3: career that still you still think about today?
Speaker 2: Oh, there were several. I remember one time playing at
Speaker 2: the Belfry in the regular tournament in England, and I
Speaker 2: hit the flag pole three times with a full shot
Speaker 2: with a six iron or venture and none of the
Speaker 2: three stayed on the green, not even on the green.
Speaker 2: They all came off in the same round, sorry, in
Speaker 2: the same round, in the four rounds in the tournament.
Speaker 2: I but you don't hit the flag pole three times
Speaker 2: with a full iron usually you know that might happen once,
Speaker 2: but so that was kind of weird. And then I
Speaker 2: remember playing Augusta a few years back, not too long
Speaker 2: thirteen again the pot five round the corner. I hit
Speaker 2: a beautiful t shot and I had a two hybrid
Speaker 2: and I struck it beautiful. I mean, when you're pro,
Speaker 2: you just know when you hit in the sweet spot.
Speaker 2: And it started online and it took off fantastic, and
Speaker 2: about as it was fifty yards in the air, it
Speaker 2: hit this tiny little twin that overhanging tree, and the
Speaker 2: branch came down and at a time that the very
Speaker 2: end of the branch, the twig was no more than
Speaker 2: a quarter of an inch or half an inch. The
Speaker 2: ball clipped that twig and it went forty yards left
Speaker 2: in the trees, and I lost ball. If it had
Speaker 2: made seven, if it hadn't hit that twig, it would
Speaker 2: have been on the green and I would have potted
Speaker 2: for eagle, probably made birdie. You know, those are the
Speaker 2: breaks that drive you crazy when you hit a really beautiful,
Speaker 2: solid shot, And that happens when you hit a bad
Speaker 2: shot while you deserve to get a bad break.
Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty five, Curtis Strage famously spoke, you know,
Speaker 3: this is the year you won, about how everything kind
Speaker 3: of changes and how everything changed for him when he
Speaker 3: got on the tenth tee on Sunday at Augusta. How
Speaker 3: would you describe the feeling of entering that back nine
Speaker 3: with a chance to win.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's an amazing feeling knowing that you know
Speaker 2: you got nine holes left, you got to play your
Speaker 2: best golf to maybe win a win a major. When
Speaker 2: the Masters get a green check and have a lifetime exemption,
Speaker 2: there's so much on the line at the same time,
Speaker 2: when you have the lead, like Curtis did you know
Speaker 2: there's it's it's the same thing. You try to protect
Speaker 2: that lead to some extent, but it's a golf course
Speaker 2: where it's hard to protect anything because if you start
Speaker 2: playing safe, you end up in the wrong places at
Speaker 2: times and get punished quickly. It's just the back nine
Speaker 2: at Augusta is probably as exciting on nine holes as
Speaker 2: you'll ever see on any golf course. You have water,
Speaker 2: you have tough, tough greens, you have two pa fives
Speaker 2: that are possible eagle chance, but also the way you
Speaker 2: can make a seven just the same and just very
Speaker 2: exciting finishing holes where a lot can happen, you know.
Speaker 2: I remember walking off seventeen at eighty five and I
Speaker 2: just birdied seventeen. I looked up at the leaderboard and
Speaker 2: I had a two shot lead over Sev and Curtis Strange,
Speaker 2: I think mostly Curtis, maybe three over Sevy and Raymond
Speaker 2: Floyd and Sevi. As we walked to the eighteenth screen,
Speaker 2: he puts his arm around my shoulder and goes, Bernard,
Speaker 2: well done, congrats, this is yours. Go get it, you know,
Speaker 2: and I'm looking at him saying, you know, thanks, but heck,
Speaker 2: I got one of the hardest part fours in the
Speaker 2: world to play. I mean that t shot coming out
Speaker 2: of that shoot. You know, anything can happen there, and
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do. I think it was Arnold
Speaker 2: Palmer who lost it once on that hole, and so
Speaker 2: I appreciated his kind gesture, but I still had a
Speaker 2: tough hole ahead of me, you know.
Speaker 3: So eighty five you come back, obviously, Curtis struggles on
Speaker 3: the back nine, You come out of the pack like
Speaker 3: a real It's actually a really great Master's to watch
Speaker 3: rewatch on their YouTube channel. You know, there's a heap
Speaker 3: of great world class players that you come out and
Speaker 3: you win your first Masters in ninety three.
Speaker 1: You're playing with the lead.
Speaker 3: You kind of touched on this, but what's the difference
Speaker 3: in the dynamic of playing with like a somewhat substantial
Speaker 3: comfortable lead at Augusta National versus other golf courses. And
Speaker 3: I'm curious in your in your career, have there been
Speaker 3: any corollary courses that have a similar feel to Augusta
Speaker 3: in the sense of like that kind of razor thin
Speaker 3: edge of a golf course.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure there is other courses that are somewhat similar.
Speaker 2: But we see a year after year at Augusta where
Speaker 2: you know, somebody goes five under on the back nine
Speaker 2: or four or six under who knows, And it's easy
Speaker 2: to go couple over as well. And so the swing
Speaker 2: changes or the lead changes can happen in a span
Speaker 2: of a few minutes. I had a foreshot lead on
Speaker 2: starting that Sunday, and most people would say that, well,
Speaker 2: foreshot is a lot, you know that's going to be
Speaker 2: hard to catch. Well, Greg Norman lost with a six
Speaker 2: or seven shot lead by a lot, and I almost
Speaker 2: got caught. My foreshot lead went down to one with
Speaker 2: nine to go, and I really had to get a
Speaker 2: grip of myself and play aggressive and good golf on
Speaker 2: the back nine to not let this be taken away
Speaker 2: from me.
Speaker 3: You've been a prolific winner in your career, to say
Speaker 3: the least, you know your whole career. What are your
Speaker 3: strategies for playing with lead?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What are you trying to do in your mind? Does
Speaker 1: it you know?
Speaker 3: Because we see I feel like we see so many
Speaker 3: people struggle playing with a lead on Sunday, Like, what
Speaker 3: did have you learned over the course of your career
Speaker 3: of closing out a tournament?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's never easy to tell you the truth, but
Speaker 2: I think the more you put yourself in that situation,
Speaker 2: the easier it gets. And I think that was one
Speaker 2: of Tiger's big advantages because he was in contention just
Speaker 2: about every week. He eat it up and it becomes
Speaker 2: normal and natural, while somebody who's only in the lead
Speaker 2: once a year or twice, it's a lot harder. But
Speaker 2: I give you an example. I was nineteen, I was
Speaker 2: leading the Irish Open by two with nine holes to go,
Speaker 2: and I hit a beautiful t shot on ten and
Speaker 2: I'm walking toward my ball, and I'm thinking, well, what
Speaker 2: are you going to do with all that money you
Speaker 2: got to win? And what are you going to say
Speaker 2: at price gaming. I've never given a public speech. I'm
Speaker 2: eighteen years or nineteen years old, and thoughts like that,
Speaker 2: and that's the worst you can think. Okay, but I
Speaker 2: was just inexperienced, and sure enough, about four holes later,
Speaker 2: I wasn't leading anymore, and I didn't win the tournament.
Speaker 2: So what you do, Well, it's that phrase, you know,
Speaker 2: one shot at a time, and it sounds so simple
Speaker 2: and so boring, but that's what it is. You know,
Speaker 2: you got to stay in the presence. You can't let
Speaker 2: the circumstances overwhelm you. You got to try and block
Speaker 2: out all that stuff and just focus on the next shot,
Speaker 2: in the next shot, And you still got to play
Speaker 2: aggressive most of the time. You may be able if
Speaker 2: you have a big lead to play kind of safe
Speaker 2: the last few holes, but if you don't have a
Speaker 2: big lead, it doesn't work. So you still got to
Speaker 2: hit the shots. You got to make the putts and
Speaker 2: stay in the presence, don't get ahead of your shelf.
Speaker 3: I think that staying in the present is one of
Speaker 3: the most challenging things to do on a golf course.
Speaker 1: It is it sounds so simple, just stay in the president, but.
Speaker 2: It is because we have we have so much time.
Speaker 2: Right you walk to the ball. You got a couple
Speaker 2: of minutes. You know what is your brain is always
Speaker 2: thinking something. It's never just dull. And in other sports
Speaker 2: tennis or or other sports that there, they're reactionary sport. Well,
Speaker 2: we don't react. We have to act and the ball
Speaker 2: is just sitting there waiting for you to be hit. Uh,
Speaker 2: it's it's yeah, it's a different dynamic and not easy.
Speaker 3: What's your favorite way when you when you feel yourself
Speaker 3: thinking ahead to get yourself back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I see my my mind go where it
Speaker 2: shouldn't go, then I'll just kind of have a self
Speaker 2: talk and say, hey, this is this is not good.
Speaker 2: You know, come come back here and let's focus on
Speaker 2: what's at hand. You got whatever eight holes to go.
Speaker 2: You know, I have my own little game here. Let's
Speaker 2: if I shoot two hunderd the next eight holes or something,
Speaker 2: nobody can catch me if I'm three ahead or something
Speaker 2: a foe ahead. So it's trying to stay with a
Speaker 2: similar game plan that got you there because obviously it
Speaker 2: was good. Otherwise you wouldn't be in the lead. So
Speaker 2: don't change things dramatically. If you have a lead, you
Speaker 2: don't need to take huge chances. You know, if the
Speaker 2: pin is four steps from the water, water is on
Speaker 2: the left, you're not going to go at that pin
Speaker 2: with a foura and you just try and hit the
Speaker 2: middle of the green and you force the chasers the
Speaker 2: other people to take the risk and maybe make mistakes.
Speaker 2: You have, you know, the possibility to play safe on
Speaker 2: a couple of holes. But then when you have a
Speaker 2: chance with a pitching wedge or some other clubs where
Speaker 2: you feel comfortable and you you can go straight at
Speaker 2: it and hopefully make birdie and put more pressure on
Speaker 2: the other guys.
Speaker 3: That idea of challenges, Like you said, like you know,
Speaker 3: if I play the next eight holes two under, do
Speaker 3: you think about that kind of stuff throughout a fifty
Speaker 3: four or seventy two hole tournament?
Speaker 2: Not really usually not. It's more so let's say I
Speaker 2: get off to a bad start and I'm two over
Speaker 2: for six or eight holes, and I might just at
Speaker 2: some point say, okay, let's stop here. You got ten
Speaker 2: holes left. Let's see if we can shoot the next
Speaker 2: ten holes two or three under and bring the score
Speaker 2: back to a respectable, respectable result. So I'm trying to
Speaker 2: forget the past and focus on my next ten holes
Speaker 2: thinking something positive, and that has worked very well in
Speaker 2: my career.
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break to talk about our partners.
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Speaker 3: let's get back to burn our life, back to eighty five.
Speaker 3: You were paired with sev in the final round. It
Speaker 3: was obviously a player that you bet around a lot
Speaker 3: on the European Tour growing up playing you know, golf.
Speaker 3: Do you think that pairings help in those high pressure situations.
Speaker 2: I think they do. I think there's some people that
Speaker 2: you feel more comfortable or you're rather with than some others.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I was overly comfortable with sev because
Speaker 2: we had a big rivalry in Europe. It was a
Speaker 2: for a number of years, like Micholson and Tiger if
Speaker 2: you if you know what I mean, and you know,
Speaker 2: we played for the same titles and there can only
Speaker 2: be one winner, and nobody likes sinning second. So we
Speaker 2: kind of had that relationship for a number of years.
Speaker 2: But at the same time we played on the same
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup team many at times representing Europe playing against
Speaker 2: the Americans. And that reminds me what Sabby, what Sabby
Speaker 2: said on the first tea. So we get introduced and
Speaker 2: we hit our t shirts on number one on Sunday
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety three, and we walk off and he
Speaker 2: comes near me and walks next to me and says, Bernard,
Speaker 2: let's make sure one of us wins this tournament and
Speaker 2: not these American Yankees behind us. You know that that
Speaker 2: was his He just wanted to beat the Americans. That
Speaker 2: that was his big goal. He he just had that
Speaker 2: in his heart. Somehow. He wanted to win the right
Speaker 2: a Cup and he wanted to beat the American I
Speaker 2: don't know, the Americans. I don't know if that goes
Speaker 2: back to the Americans receiving appearance fees when they came
Speaker 2: to Europe and he didn't for a while and he
Speaker 2: fell that was wrong because he was as good as them,
Speaker 2: maybe better, So there was a chip on his shoulder
Speaker 2: in that regard.
Speaker 3: I I wanted to talk about that, that group of players.
Speaker 3: I think I've seen it referred to as the Famous Five, yourself,
Speaker 3: Ian Muslim, Sandy Lyle, Savvy, Nick Faldo. What do you
Speaker 3: think made that group tick and and why did did
Speaker 3: golf and and just that era work for everybody?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they did a wonderful job. I think
Speaker 2: you can watch it on YouTube called the Big Five.
Speaker 2: And they went to our hometowns to interviewed people that
Speaker 2: you know, helped us grow and how we got into
Speaker 2: the game and why we became so good. My view
Speaker 2: is we all have different backgrounds. You know, Sandy Lyle
Speaker 2: lived on a golf course he grew up. His dad
Speaker 2: was the golf teacher, golf professional in that club. It
Speaker 2: was easy for him, He just stepped out of his
Speaker 2: front door and he was on the course. For some
Speaker 2: of us, it wasn't that easy for Woozy and myself
Speaker 2: and even Sev We had no access to golf courses.
Speaker 2: We didn't have the money to be a member anywhere,
Speaker 2: We couldn't afford lessons. We were more self taught and
Speaker 2: very hungry and eager to play this game the hard way.
Speaker 2: But we all made it to the top, you know,
Speaker 2: all of us, and fascinating stories. And I think what
Speaker 2: really helped us is was we're all the same age.
Speaker 2: We're all born within twelve months of each other, all
Speaker 2: five of us. So we competed at the very highest
Speaker 2: level for about fifteen twenty years against each other, and
Speaker 2: that made us better. You know, when I competed against
Speaker 2: Sevi and Faldo and Woozy and Lyle, and I saw
Speaker 2: Seve win majors, and he's won majors. I've beaten him
Speaker 2: several times. Why am I not winning majors? You know,
Speaker 2: that kind of attitude really pushed us and helped us
Speaker 2: to work harder and get better and believe in ourselves.
Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite European Tour memory from that era?
Speaker 2: Oh, there's there's so many. It's we don't have the time.
Speaker 2: But you know, in the early days, it was very different.
Speaker 2: I got on tour when I was eighteen. Okay, there
Speaker 2: were no courtesy cars. No, the range bowls were so bad.
Speaker 2: When you hit a five iron, the ball was hooking, slicing,
Speaker 2: straightening out, and then slicing again, and you didn't know
Speaker 2: was that you were was it the ball. So we
Speaker 2: all had check bags of maybe fifty titles with us.
Speaker 2: We traveled with him, and then you had twenty caddies
Speaker 2: on the range picking up your own range balls because
Speaker 2: I didn't want to lose my fifty time listen, I
Speaker 2: didn't have any for the next day to practice. So
Speaker 2: that was very you know, dangerous for those caddies and
Speaker 2: hilarious at times to see how they dodged the balls
Speaker 2: and ran around and it was crazy really. On the
Speaker 2: other hand, as I said, I was eighteen, I couldn't
Speaker 2: rent a car till I was twenty three. So how
Speaker 2: do I get There were no courtesy cars. Nobody cared
Speaker 2: about us, really, So I flew to Madrid and I'm
Speaker 2: stuck at the airport. How do I get to the
Speaker 2: golf course. I had to take a bus or train
Speaker 2: with my suitcase, my shack bag, my golf clubs, all
Speaker 2: the stuff that I had because I couldn't rent a car.
Speaker 2: I didn't have a car and then how do I
Speaker 2: get back and force every day? You know things. I mean,
Speaker 2: you can take a taxi, but I couldn't afford a taxi.
Speaker 2: I didn't have the money to do that. It was
Speaker 2: very complicated, very difficult. One time I was in England,
Speaker 2: I was looking for the golf course and it was
Speaker 2: a weird name and I couldn't say it properly. And
Speaker 2: I asked three people and they didn't understand me. Okay,
Speaker 2: they said, now this place is nowhere near So I
Speaker 2: finally wrote it down. I showed it. Oh yeah, that's
Speaker 2: right around the corner. It's just a lack of pronouncing
Speaker 2: the word correctly. Things like that. But it goes on
Speaker 2: and on.
Speaker 1: With those, with your peers of that era.
Speaker 3: If you could have if you could have taken one
Speaker 3: aspect of.
Speaker 1: One of their games for yourself, what would it have been.
Speaker 2: Well. I kind of struggled early on with putting in
Speaker 2: my life, so I always thought if I could become
Speaker 2: a better potter, I would be a really good player,
Speaker 2: and so I was always chasing how to be a
Speaker 2: better potter or how to have a better short. Like
Speaker 2: in my third tournament, I finished tight fifths in the
Speaker 2: Madrid open, and I could see with the people I
Speaker 2: played against that my ball striking was as good or
Speaker 2: superior to theirs. But but my short game wasn't quite there. So,
Speaker 2: you know, Savvy was just the opposite, and at times
Speaker 2: he was brilliant with a powder and the and the wedges.
Speaker 2: So I tried to become better in that part of
Speaker 2: the game, and I knew if I could, I would
Speaker 2: be one of the best.
Speaker 3: You've you've referenced, you know the difficulty of of you know,
Speaker 3: lack of means lack of resources when you were up,
Speaker 3: when you were coming up in the sport in Germany,
Speaker 3: you know, the lack of golf cours is very private access.
Speaker 3: How did you become such an elite ball striker with
Speaker 3: you know, seemingly a not a lot of golf infrastructure
Speaker 3: around you? What made you such a great tee to
Speaker 3: green player?
Speaker 2: Well, I was self taught the first six years of
Speaker 2: my caddy life, Let's put it that way. I couldn't
Speaker 2: afford lessons and nobody was really offering lessons. And then
Speaker 2: when I became assistant pro at age fifteen, my head
Speaker 2: coach said, you know, I can help you with your
Speaker 2: technique if you want me to and I was all ears.
Speaker 2: Obviously I wanted to become better. I had a very
Speaker 2: strong grip. I learned as a nine year old, if
Speaker 2: you hook the ball, it goes further than a slice,
Speaker 2: so I try to hook everything to get more distance,
Speaker 2: to reach the path four in two instead of in
Speaker 2: three and stuff like that. But that I had to
Speaker 2: pay a price for that, because later, when I first
Speaker 2: got on tour and I was drawing the ball, that
Speaker 2: low draw didn't really worked too well on firm, fast
Speaker 2: screens in Spain and Portugal and other places. So I
Speaker 2: had to redo my grip, redo my whole swing to
Speaker 2: get the ball up in the air, and had to
Speaker 2: learn to hit a fade. All that was a long process,
Speaker 2: and I ran into a Truman coach by the name
Speaker 2: of Willy Hoffman. He became my coach for forty years
Speaker 2: from age eighteen till about age fifty eight or sixty,
Speaker 2: and he was very knowledgeable. He worked over here in
Speaker 2: America for the Gulf Dieicher School with Jim Flick and
Speaker 2: Bill Straspo, some of the very well known teachers of
Speaker 2: the game, and he knew a lot. So he helped
Speaker 2: me greatly, and he's once said, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: change your swing your grip drastically like some other people
Speaker 2: wanted to or saw that I need to. He said,
Speaker 2: We're going to change it a tiny bit every year,
Speaker 2: and in a few years you'll look at your grip
Speaker 2: and you'll be amazed how good it looks. And that's
Speaker 2: what we did. And he said, the reason we're doing
Speaker 2: it this way is that your DNA and I want
Speaker 2: you to be competitive throughout your whole career. I want
Speaker 2: you to be in contention all the time, so we're
Speaker 2: not making drastic changes. Then he said, you know, in
Speaker 2: the seventies we were taught to have the reverse sea finish,
Speaker 2: like Johnny Miller or Jack Nicholas or whatever. And he said,
Speaker 2: you know you now in your twenties, if you keep
Speaker 2: swinging like that, your bag's going to kill you later
Speaker 2: in your life. I don't want you that. I want
Speaker 2: you to play well in your forties, fifties, sixties, seventies.
Speaker 2: And initially I was thinking, oh, I don't really care.
Speaker 2: Then I want to be the best I can be
Speaker 2: right now, you know, but it made sense. So we
Speaker 2: changed my swing a little bit by little bit to
Speaker 2: cover the ball more, which is what they do nowadays.
Speaker 2: You know, the modern equipment, everybody seemed to cover the
Speaker 2: ball and clear through the shot, totally different than in
Speaker 2: the old days. So you had that knowledge and foresight
Speaker 2: and wisdom to guide me down that path, and it
Speaker 2: worked very well for me. As you said, you know,
Speaker 2: I was competitive throughout all my fifty years on tour
Speaker 2: pretty much. The only thing that helped me back at
Speaker 2: times was my putting. But my ball striking was generally
Speaker 2: pretty good throughout my whole career.
Speaker 3: With the putting, obviously, you went through a lot, you know,
Speaker 3: trying to trying different styles of putting.
Speaker 1: To figure out the struggles there.
Speaker 3: When you look back, do you think that that had
Speaker 3: in the long term a positive impact on your career
Speaker 3: in terms of like when you look at your longevity.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I don't think so, but maybe it does.
Speaker 2: I wish I wouldn't have had to go through some
Speaker 2: of the struggle struggles, but I think you learn more
Speaker 2: in the bad times, but you know, I still would
Speaker 2: have had bad times load times. That's you know, the
Speaker 2: middle name of golf is frustrating or humbling, whatever you
Speaker 2: want to call it. So there's you're never or very
Speaker 2: seldom you play at your highest level. There's no perfect
Speaker 2: round of golf, because that would be a score of
Speaker 2: thirty six. We can reach every hole in two. If
Speaker 2: you hold out every hole, you would have a thirty six.
Speaker 2: The lowest score I've ever heard of was what fifty eight,
Speaker 2: So we're far away from perfection and nobody will ever
Speaker 2: achieve it.
Speaker 3: With going back to to your group of Europeans that
Speaker 3: I you know, had a huge impact on so many things,
Speaker 3: one of which being.
Speaker 1: The Ryder Cup.
Speaker 3: What do you think made your late eighties early nineties
Speaker 3: team so successful beyond just the sheer talent.
Speaker 2: Well, I think first of all, it was the hunger
Speaker 2: because the Americans were so much better, supposedly according to
Speaker 2: the media and everybody else, and they did beat us
Speaker 2: over and over and over in the fifties, sixties, seventies,
Speaker 2: and the other thing other phenomenon was the Big Five
Speaker 2: you know we had. Initially the Ryder Cup was Great
Speaker 2: Britain and Ireland against America. Then Jack Nicholas, after drumming
Speaker 2: the European team over and over and over, he said,
Speaker 2: you know, you should consider including the continent all of
Speaker 2: Europe because they're really not competitive you know, they have
Speaker 2: no chance. He said it nicer than that, but that's
Speaker 2: what he meant, and so they agreed, Yeah, let's include
Speaker 2: all of Europe, and all of a sudden we became
Speaker 2: more competitive. Okay, you had players from Spain, from Italy, Sweden, France, Holland, Germany,
Speaker 2: all over the place. And now he got the Big Five,
Speaker 2: which really made a huge impact on the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2: You know, we were not scared of anybody. It didn't
Speaker 2: matter if you played against Nicholas or Trevino or Floyd
Speaker 2: or you name it. You know, we had confidence. We
Speaker 2: were winning tournaments, winning around the world. All of us
Speaker 2: won majors, and therefore we felt we're as good as
Speaker 2: them and that we could beat him. The other thing is,
Speaker 2: I think there were times when we only had three
Speaker 2: or four good players. I think in the eighties we
Speaker 2: started to have twelve fifteen good players and that's changed dramatically.
Speaker 2: Now I think the European Tour could field almost to
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup teams. You know, that's how how deep the
Speaker 2: tour has gotten, how big the game has has grown.
Speaker 2: And we didn't have that in the early years. Suddenly,
Speaker 2: not when it was great. Britain and Ireland.
Speaker 3: In the course of your career, was there a moment
Speaker 3: where a player and their like their skills made you
Speaker 3: kind of stop in the track in your tracks and
Speaker 3: watch with the first time you saw him hit a ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were some of them, obviously, they all had.
Speaker 2: You know, Savvy's short game was phenomenal. Uh you had
Speaker 2: foul Those comes.
Speaker 3: Real quick with sevi short game. What from you know,
Speaker 3: as most people here probably didn't ever watch Savvy and
Speaker 3: that are listening watch Sevy in their prime? What about
Speaker 3: his short game was so magical?
Speaker 2: Well, they should go back and watch some movies. It's
Speaker 2: worth watching.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he could go in a bunker with you
Speaker 2: and and he'll go in with a three iron and
Speaker 2: beat you out of the bunker, out of a greenside
Speaker 2: bunker with a lip, he'll get it closer to the
Speaker 2: hole than most of us with a sandwich or lobwoich.
Speaker 2: He was just that good. That was one thing. He
Speaker 2: could play the flop shot. He could skip and run it.
Speaker 2: He had the imagine and imagination and a touch and
Speaker 2: same with a potter. You know you he would hit
Speaker 2: his t shirt somewhere in the rough for in the trees,
Speaker 2: and you saw it. Well, I got him now, and
Speaker 2: then he'll by the end of this hole. You look
Speaker 2: at the score and he tied you or he beat
Speaker 2: you by one, and you go, how did that happen?
Speaker 2: You know? Tom Layman tells the story he played him
Speaker 2: in the Ryder Cup. I think it was at Rochester.
Speaker 2: He never saw him. The first nine holes, Savvy was
Speaker 2: left or right and Tom was down the middle. Played
Speaker 2: very solid. After nine holes they were even. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just he said, it was unbelievable the guy. I
Speaker 2: never saw him till he hold out and the whole
Speaker 2: kind of thing. And yet I wasn't up on the guy.
Speaker 2: So that was Savvy's specialty. Obviously, he could play very
Speaker 2: good from tee to green as well, at times extremely good.
Speaker 2: And he had that one iron that could go straight
Speaker 2: up in the air. Actually, the greatest shot I've ever
Speaker 2: seen in my life, and I've seen a lot of
Speaker 2: great shots would have been Savvy hitting a three wood
Speaker 2: out of a fairway bunker at PCHA National when we
Speaker 2: played the eighty three Ryder Cup. He drove on eighteen.
Speaker 2: He drove it in the bunker. I was already finished.
Speaker 2: I walked back to support my team and I was
Speaker 2: walking back on eighteen. I see seven the bunker and
Speaker 2: his opponent on the fairw and I'm going, oh, this
Speaker 2: is no good. You know he's going to lose this
Speaker 2: almost likely. And I'm looking at his line in this
Speaker 2: bunker and I'm standing, I'm thinking, well, if this was me,
Speaker 2: I would probably hit a seven or eight iron because
Speaker 2: there was a lip and lay it up and then
Speaker 2: hopefully wedged and you know, make make birdie. It's a
Speaker 2: part five. Well, Seby goes in there, takes the three wood,
Speaker 2: a person in three wood with a steel shaft. He
Speaker 2: aims out in the water, which is water all the
Speaker 2: way down the right side of those of you who
Speaker 2: know PGA National the last hole. He hits this high
Speaker 2: draw here is at about two hundred and forty with
Speaker 2: his personmin steel shafted three wood, flies it onto the
Speaker 2: green and wins the hole. And my eyes got so big.
Speaker 2: I didn't have that shut. Well, as I said, I
Speaker 2: was scared. It's seven iron or six iron with the
Speaker 2: lip there was, and he took three wood. So though
Speaker 2: you know different players have different talents and different gifts,
Speaker 2: Sandy Lyle was the same. He could hit a one
Speaker 2: iron so far and so high. It was scary, I mean, ridiculous.
Speaker 2: But he had this amazing power in his swing and Woozy,
Speaker 2: you know, Woozy was is by four at his prime,
Speaker 2: and when he won his Masters, he flew that eighteen's
Speaker 2: t shot. He flew it over the bunker. That's that's
Speaker 2: enormous distance, and then he had a wedge in there.
Speaker 2: So there's some stuff that is just exceptional, and that's
Speaker 2: why these guys were the best at the time.
Speaker 1: What's been the most fulfilling moment in your golf career.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a that's a tough one, because I've been
Speaker 2: blessed with over one hundred and thirty victories worldwide, and
Speaker 2: you know, obviously the Masters jumps to mind immediately, but
Speaker 2: then even winning my first Chairman Open, my first German Masters,
Speaker 2: my you know, eleven majors out here on the Senior Tour,
Speaker 2: or eleven money titles, things like that, it's a player
Speaker 2: of the year. There were so many amazing things that
Speaker 2: when I look back, I almost have to pinch myself
Speaker 2: and say, wow, this is crazy. You know that all
Speaker 2: this happened to you. There's so many great players and
Speaker 2: so much talent and gifted guys out there, you know,
Speaker 2: how were you able to win these championships. So I'm
Speaker 2: very fortunate, very blessed, and it's hard to just pick one,
Speaker 2: you know, even things like getting the pain Steward Trophy
Speaker 2: very emotional, or being inducted into the Hall of Fame
Speaker 2: of Golf. Coming from a village of eight hundred people
Speaker 2: in Bavaria where golf was nothing. It's crazy, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just really incredible and I'm very very very grateful.
Speaker 3: Forward well, Bert, thank you so much for joining the show,
Speaker 3: giving us some of your time, and it was a
Speaker 3: real pleasure to speak with you and look forward to
Speaker 3: seeing you at the at the Master's milling about.
Speaker 1: We'll be sure to stop by and say hi.
Speaker 2: Thanks Andy and enjoyed us all the best, God bless.
Speaker 3: All right, big thanks for listening to another edition of
Speaker 3: the Friday Golf Podcast. As a reminder, we will be
Speaker 3: back on Sunday Sunday, it'll be in your feeds to
Speaker 3: get you kind of rolling for the Masters week.
Speaker 1: I can't believe we're here.
Speaker 3: Very excited for this year and thank you for coming
Speaker 3: along with us.