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Speaker 1: I'm Jason Flamm. Since I began recording Rafel Conviction back

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, I've interviewed hundreds of xanneries, but unfortunately

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Speaker 1: that's just the tip of the criminal injustice Iceberg. So

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Speaker 1: I've invited new voices to host the show, including people

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Speaker 1: who have personally experienced the horror of that system. This

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Speaker 1: is one of those interviews.

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Speaker 2: It's July fourth, twenty oh two, and thirty six year

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Speaker 2: old Tony Cox is meeting up with Richard Rico, the

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Speaker 2: owner of Fat Alberts, a restaurant on the West Side

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Speaker 2: of Chicago. They lead the restaurant together. A regal turns

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Speaker 2: to lock the door behind him, and that's when he

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Speaker 2: hears two gunshots. Tony Cox is shot dead. A regal

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Speaker 2: stance at a close distance to the shooters, but he

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Speaker 2: doesn't recognize him. As they flee to scene, two women

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Speaker 2: witness the crime from their cars. Both of them called

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Speaker 2: nine to one to one, and both would later be

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Speaker 2: asked identify the shooters from photograph, even though they barely had.

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Speaker 3: Time to see them.

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Speaker 2: Chicago police officers Gregory Jones, Eugene Schletter, and James Sanchez

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Speaker 2: investigated the murder and they believe it had to be

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Speaker 2: gang related because Tony Cox was a member of the

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Speaker 2: local gang, the New Breeds. At first, they investigated New

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Speaker 2: Breed members but made no arrest, but within a month

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Speaker 2: of the crime, for reasons they are still unknown, they

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Speaker 2: turned their attention to Eric Blackman. On the day of

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Speaker 2: the murder, Eric was hosting a barbecue and between twenty

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Speaker 2: and forty people saw him there. Two months later, in September,

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Speaker 2: Eric showed up at court to deal with the unrelated

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Speaker 2: misdemeanor charge, but the police arrested them there on the

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Speaker 2: spot as he entered the courthouse. Despite having dozens of

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Speaker 2: alibi witnesses and no connection to the victim. Eric Blackman

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Speaker 2: was found guilty of murder and Tony Cox on septem

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Speaker 2: number twenty seven, twenty oh four. He was since sixty

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Speaker 2: years in prison this this wrongful conviction. My name is

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Speaker 2: Patrick Persley, also known as Free Patrick Persley. I've been

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Speaker 2: a guest on this show to talk about my own

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Speaker 2: wrongful conviction, but now I'm here as your guest host.

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Speaker 2: In April twenty twenty two, I had the honor of

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Speaker 2: sitting down with Eric Blackman to talk about his incredible story. Today,

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Speaker 2: I have a very distinguished guest, a friend, a brother

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Speaker 2: of fellow Axandery, a very positive person, someone I've known

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Speaker 2: for more than a decade. Eric Blackman. How are you today?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. I definitely definitely

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Speaker 3: appreciate you being here. And we knew each other a

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Speaker 3: lot longer than the.

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Speaker 2: Decade, at least a decade.

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Speaker 3: Yeah out two fifteen to twenty years ago when I really.

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Speaker 2: Think we were at Stateville together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, stay here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you've come a long way and you've

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Speaker 2: done a lot. You've really done a lot to save

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Speaker 2: your own life. Did you ever face any criticism where

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Speaker 2: they say, like your house lord, you know, how gave

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Speaker 2: way out with yourself? You never heard that one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in the way people think that way, or one

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Speaker 3: of the biggest criticisms is people will tell y'all man

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Speaker 3: that petition will never work. Oh you know, hey, that'd

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Speaker 3: be what you get a lot. Uh sometimes, And I

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Speaker 3: heard a lot about the very petition that got me here,

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Speaker 3: So I really, you know, you just really got to

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Speaker 3: go on with what you research and how you feel

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Speaker 3: and what you believe in, and if it's right, you

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Speaker 3: just hope that a court ends up seeing it that way.

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Speaker 3: You know, country every to what anybody else may say.

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Speaker 2: So, where where are you from.

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Speaker 3: I'm from the West Side of Chicago. I was born

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Speaker 3: and raised there. Yeah. It was it dangerous, very much

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Speaker 3: like any other place. It was you know, ripple with gangs, drugs, violence,

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Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. It was you know, it

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Speaker 3: was just things that were around. You know, you do

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Speaker 3: your best to stay away from it, but it's there

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Speaker 3: things that you see every day.

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Speaker 2: In Eric's neighborhood. Gang violence and drugs went hand in

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Speaker 2: hand with police brutality.

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Speaker 3: In our neighborhood. They came up with this what they

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Speaker 3: called what was later called the Black Site, which is

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Speaker 3: a home and square police station. There was this station

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Speaker 3: where people would be disappeared, where you would go and

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Speaker 3: you would hear the stories of people riding past, hearing

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Speaker 3: screams at night. But it was just a place where

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Speaker 3: people where all of your rights was just violated. People

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Speaker 3: were just going there and people wouldn't hear from for

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Speaker 3: loan periods of time, and people were arrested and healed,

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Speaker 3: and it would later revealed that people were you know,

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Speaker 3: unconstitutionally held there at that jail.

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Speaker 2: Now, people have to remember the setting in Chicago in

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Speaker 2: the late nineties. You know, they had record amounts of murders,

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Speaker 2: and you have these cadres of police who are basically

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Speaker 2: acting outside of the law. People would be amazed the

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Speaker 2: level of brutality that's leveled against someone being interrogated who

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Speaker 2: is nine out of ten times a young black male.

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Speaker 2: A twenty fifteen investigation by the Guardian revealed that the

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Speaker 2: Home and Square facility had detained and interrogated more than

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Speaker 2: seven thousand people in Chicago since nineteen ninety five, and

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Speaker 2: estimated eighty percent of those people were black, and only

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Speaker 2: a handful were allowed legal representation.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's like, hey, you hear about these things,

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Speaker 3: and you know people and you so you know, it's

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Speaker 3: very much real. Like the Bookiyman.

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Speaker 2: On July fourth, two thousand and two, you have Tony

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Speaker 2: Cox in Cook County, Illinois. He shot to death. There's

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Speaker 2: witnesses people dropping down the street, at least two or

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Speaker 2: three of those. There's someone next door in barbershok two people.

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Speaker 2: There's kind of according to the record, it's like this

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Speaker 2: strange meet up right, he gets a message like a

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Speaker 2: meet in front of fat Alberts or meet at Fat Alberts,

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Speaker 2: he meets Richard Rego. I believe they kind of say

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Speaker 2: inside the restaurant for about twenty minutes and they're excellent restaurant.

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Speaker 2: Two people pop up and shoot Tony Cox Debt. I

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Speaker 2: believe that's that's the state's that was the state's case.

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Speaker 3: I believe, yeah, that is what they uh ultimately you know,

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Speaker 3: presented at court as to being what actually happened that day.

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Speaker 2: I know when the shooting happened, there was like a

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Speaker 2: handful of witnesses from your record or from like where

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Speaker 2: are some things that we're saying about the actual shooter.

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Speaker 2: I know they had made nine one one calls.

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Speaker 3: Or according to the record, french Line Reese and Lisa

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Speaker 3: McDowell were two people who were driving past the crime.

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Speaker 3: They both were stopped at this same.

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Speaker 2: Light at different viewpoints.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, both one was heading north the other were

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Speaker 3: heading south, but they were both you know, on opposite

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Speaker 3: sides of the same light. According to Miss Frenshawn Reee,

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Speaker 3: the light turned green, she see these people standing up

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Speaker 3: half a block in front of her. The light turns

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Speaker 3: green and she proceeds up. She sees one of these

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Speaker 3: men shoot the other.

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Speaker 2: Do you recall, like her identification, what description.

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Speaker 3: She gave a description. I can't recall, but it wasn't

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Speaker 3: a description that fit me. I believe her description was

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Speaker 3: somebody like five, teen thirties, twenties thirties. I was a

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Speaker 3: teen then, but it was something that definitely didn't fit me.

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Speaker 3: I'm six', FOUR i was a teenager at the. Time

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Speaker 3: so you, know it was a very for a crime

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Speaker 3: from WHO i am. Now miss McDowell says that she

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Speaker 3: was still there and when the crime, happened she heard the,

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Speaker 3: shots looked over her and the kids were in the.

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Speaker 3: Car she seen this person or somebody two people come

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Speaker 3: around the build in and walk up on this man

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Speaker 3: that was already on the ground where she's seeing the

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Speaker 3: white man who we. Suspected she was saying Mister rego

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Speaker 3: had a.

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Speaker 2: Gun she actually puts a gun In origo's. Hand, yeah

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Speaker 2: that's what she did at her initial statement to the.

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Speaker 2: Police sometime later she would go on to change. That

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Speaker 2: it really cut a lot of people's eye, because, like

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Speaker 2: if what she's saying is, true then Mster frigo was

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Speaker 2: not a, witness he was a participant in this.

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Speaker 3: Crime you know What i'm. Saying i'm not sure if

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Speaker 3: everything that happened or what the actual you, know uh

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Speaker 3: relationship with what actually went. On it was a lot

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Speaker 3: of questions around what actually happened then who was actually

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Speaker 3: involved that?

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Speaker 2: Day you know a lot of cases take a lot

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Speaker 2: twists and, turns but your case is almost like a

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Speaker 2: direct like a direct. Shot like you're at a you're

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Speaker 2: hosting a, party, right and you, know like your barbituning

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Speaker 2: Is july. Fourth it went out, there, right so you

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Speaker 2: got twenty to forty, witnesses right That can you tell

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Speaker 2: me about?

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Speaker 3: That, well we threw a barbecue on myself and some

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Speaker 3: friends AND i over on the block where we normally

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Speaker 3: hung and we were out there throughout that. Afternoon uh

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Speaker 3: the time that they say this murder happened to, occurred

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Speaker 3: we were definitely out. THERE i had a dozen to

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Speaker 3: two dozen people that could verify WHERE i.

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Speaker 2: Was how how the hell they tie, you, like how

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Speaker 2: they drag you?

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Speaker 3: In you, KNOW i don't. Know that's SOMETHING i don't

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Speaker 3: know to this. Day HOW i ever became a, Suspect

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Speaker 3: HOW i had no link to the, gang no. TIES

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Speaker 3: i wasn't a part of that gang or any gang

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Speaker 3: for that. Matter i'm not, sure and to this day

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Speaker 3: that's still the. Question, NO i never had any dealings

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Speaker 3: with the victor them or anybody that was allegedly involved

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Speaker 3: in this. CRIME i do.

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Speaker 2: Nothing so how did they like effectuate the, Rest, like

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Speaker 2: how was it the same day or?

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Speaker 3: Later, No, SIR i was arrested like months. LATER i

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Speaker 3: believe it was like two. MONTHS i got Arrested september

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Speaker 3: the fifth of that, year which is exactly like two months.

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Speaker 3: Later in between the time of the murder and my actual,

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Speaker 3: arrest which was a couple of, MONTHS i had been

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Speaker 3: arrested for some type of disorder to conduct of gambling

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Speaker 3: or something like. That you, know in our neighborhood the

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Speaker 3: police you, know soup you.

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Speaker 2: Us, slaughtering, yeah lordman or those type of out here

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Speaker 2: on these.

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Speaker 3: Blocks and it's not a real big. Infraction it's in

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Speaker 3: fraction that you normally go to like a misdemeanor corridor

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Speaker 3: or something for and they just threw it. Out normally

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Speaker 3: in my, neighborhood it's just the way to ring up.

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Speaker 2: Guys it's almost like a.

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Speaker 3: Taxation, yeah it's a few quotas type of. Things and there.

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Speaker 2: Let everybody, know who's in.

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Speaker 3: Charge, yeah basically and The chicago P.

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Speaker 2: D you're gonna respect A. Doherty yeah, really that's definitely.

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Speaker 3: Know so SO i get one of. Those it was nothing, major,

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Speaker 3: up didn't do. Anything so this particular morning of my,

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Speaker 3: Rest september the, fourth was the DAY i actually had

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Speaker 3: court for this on the. Fence SO i go there

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Speaker 3: the same WAY i. Would you have a court, date

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Speaker 3: nothing to. Miss WHEN i walk in the, building police are.

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Speaker 3: There these aren't the regular. Police these are like the tactical.

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Speaker 2: Guys they're waiting on.

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Speaker 3: You, yeah they're waiting. There as soon AS i go

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Speaker 3: through the metal, detector they act, like, so what's your?

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Speaker 3: Name AND i tell them my, name and these officers

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Speaker 3: grab me and rough. Me you, know you know how

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Speaker 3: they do you know What i'm. Saying so, yeah the.

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Speaker 2: Thing, yeah the extra, yeah your hands.

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Speaker 3: On, yeah so it's a grab you, up And i'm

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Speaker 3: like for what you, KNOW whi y'all grabbing me for

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Speaker 3: my attorney's right in the. Courtroom so the whole thing

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Speaker 3: was to prevent me from getting a chance to notify my.

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Speaker 2: Attorney oh that's something else, too because if they know

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Speaker 2: you have, attorney they're not supposed to ask you.

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Speaker 3: Nothing, well, right but they knew my attorney was there

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Speaker 3: in their. COURTROOM i was going to, court he was.

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Speaker 2: There you, know there's usually a very clear path to

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Speaker 2: why the police picked. Somebody. Right one of the things

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Speaker 2: THAT i hear a lot from people who have not

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Speaker 2: lived the life that we have. Lived it's, like come,

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Speaker 2: on what they do just pick the name out of a.

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Speaker 2: HAT i could never figure out in your, Case, like

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Speaker 2: how the hell did they pick? You you, know.

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Speaker 3: That's still a mystery to this day for, me just

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Speaker 3: as well as my legal team going. FORWARD i can't

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Speaker 3: really tell you why they picked me. OUT i don't

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Speaker 3: know that. Would that's something that baffles me to this.

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Speaker 3: Day even when you aren't guilty and you know you

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Speaker 3: haven't done, anything you still question, yourself like why? Me

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Speaker 3: why the hell DID? I what COULD i have done?

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Speaker 3: Differently you will and to this, day LIKE i questioned

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Speaker 3: myself about, THAT i don't know WHAT i could have

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Speaker 3: done differently BECAUSE i don't know anything in regards to

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Speaker 3: what happened that.

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Speaker 4: Day this episode is sponsored by THE Aig Pro Bono.

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Speaker 4: PROGRAM aig is a leading global insurance, company and THE

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Speaker 4: aig Pro bono program provides free legal, services as well

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00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,400
Speaker 4: as other support to many nonprofit organizations as well as

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Speaker 4: individuals who are most in, need and they recently announced

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Speaker 4: that working to reform the criminal justice system will become

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Speaker 4: a key pillar of the program's.

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Speaker 2: Mission the police Arrested eric without him, warrant and they

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Speaker 2: took him to the. Station but he has no idea

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Speaker 2: what's going. On you can imagine just being dragged away

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Speaker 2: from your, family dragged away from your, house and the

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Speaker 2: police took their time in telling him what this was all.

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Speaker 3: About eventually they tell me That i'm there for. Murder

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Speaker 3: the only THING i could tell you is that's like

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Speaker 3: the most, earthshaking earth shattering like moment THAT i could tell.

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Speaker 3: You you, know it was like you, know hearing the,

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Speaker 3: record you, know like, Murder, yeah. MURDER i never been

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Speaker 3: nobody accused of nothing remotely like. That, now it's like hold,

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Speaker 3: on they tell you, murder and they leave out, again

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Speaker 3: and they leave you for a while and then, yeah,

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Speaker 3: Yeah then they come back in and they're, like, okay

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Speaker 3: you want to tell us what happened, Now AND i

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Speaker 3: don't know what, happened And i'm, denying and they steady

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Speaker 3: tried to do. It you, know, hey well maybe it

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Speaker 3: didn't happen this, Way maybe it happened that. Way we

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Speaker 3: know you. Weren't, yeah we know you weren't the. Person

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Speaker 3: and those are things that they go, out go, over

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Speaker 3: they say and do a lot of different things do

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Speaker 3: out those three. Days it really was LIKE i never

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Speaker 3: been so broke down and so dejected and so defeated

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Speaker 3: in my. Life i'll just say, that like just being

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Speaker 3: in that just having people constantly yell and badger you

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Speaker 3: and tell you and talk to you like you the,

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Speaker 3: lowest thirtiest thing in the world and accused you of

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Speaker 3: doing something like so. Horrific you, know it just shoters.

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Speaker 3: You it broke. ME i was a nineteen year old.

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Speaker 3: KID i never went through nothing like that. BEFORE i

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Speaker 3: was just you, KNOW i was. SCARED i was. DEFEATED

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Speaker 3: i was. HURT i didn't know and, like, man you

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Speaker 3: just don't know what to do in that. Situation you

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Speaker 3: a kid in. There, man the stuff that those grown

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Speaker 3: men subject kids, too like in, That like you know

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Speaker 3: What i'm.

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Speaker 2: Saying one of the detectors on this case Was James,

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Speaker 2: sanchez and since all this, happened he got promoted to

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Speaker 2: commander despite having at least ninety formal complaints and miscind.

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Speaker 2: Them so, yeah this is this character right, here he's

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Speaker 2: the one actually Interrogating.

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Speaker 3: Eric, yeah Mister. Sanchez LIKE i called him out his,

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Speaker 3: NAME i cursed at. Him he said something to. ME

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Speaker 3: i cursed at, him like, GAME i ask a nice

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Speaker 3: one on the, face, yeah just the. Face yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Let you know it means.

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Speaker 3: Business, yeah, yeah he got his point. Across, YEAH i

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Speaker 3: ain't say that no.

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Speaker 2: More after its, interrogation he waited for his trial behind

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Speaker 2: bars and cook kinde of jail for two years.

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Speaker 3: Being stuck in that. Place it's one of the most, dreadful,

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Speaker 3: crepit dilapidated places that you could ever Throw so many

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Speaker 3: people in is, rats, roaches, knives, violence, gangs if you name,

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Speaker 3: it you get tyrannical police officers or corrections officers that

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Speaker 3: would just do what like it was. ROUGH i seen

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Speaker 3: people be stabbed if you name, it choke. STRANGLED i

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Speaker 3: seen all kinds of things like happened to people. THERE

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Speaker 3: i seen one guy like set on. Fire like it's

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Speaker 3: some of the things that you wake up to when

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Speaker 3: you have nowhere to. Go no whether, run you just,

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Speaker 3: stuck you just.

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Speaker 2: There so by the time you get the, trial it's

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Speaker 2: almost like it's almost like a. Relief what is the states,

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Speaker 2: like what's their case in? Chief what do they?

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Speaker 3: Present, well we started trial about two years, later and

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Speaker 3: the state's whole case in chief was the identifications Of

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Speaker 3: miss McDowell And Miss. Reese and that was the only

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Speaker 3: Thing i'll never forget. It miss French On rees testified

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Speaker 3: to seeing the offender's face for probably four to five.

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Speaker 3: Seconds miss McDowell testified to seeing it only for like

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Speaker 3: two or.

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Speaker 2: Three before, Trial errigan's mother put together list potential alibi

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Speaker 2: witnesses that could confirm he was at The fourth Of

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Speaker 2: july barbecue and not down At Fat albert's restaurant where

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Speaker 2: the crime was.

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Speaker 3: Committed my mom made the calls to two people that

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Speaker 3: day to ultimately come to my trial and testify and

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Speaker 3: my defense with those two alibi. Witnesses two of the

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Speaker 3: people from twenty or Forty, yeah that he hadn't even

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Speaker 3: spoken to until my trial attorney hadn't even spoken to until.

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Speaker 3: That more thing that they showed.

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Speaker 2: Up you're waiting for, Trial just for the, record you're

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00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 2: waiting for trial two years and he hasn't even spoke

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Speaker 2: to two, witnesses but a few hours before.

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Speaker 3: Trial, yeah according to, them that is the first time

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Speaker 3: they ever met or spoke with. Him was like and

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Speaker 3: it wasn't even hours he spoke to, them like probably

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Speaker 3: for a short period prior to them getting UNDERSTAND i

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Speaker 3: kind of felt, like, okay not really, Okay BUT i

334
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:02,919
Speaker 3: KNOW i got an. ALABIM i KNOW i got a

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00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,359
Speaker 3: bunch of people that know WHERE i would you, KNOW

336
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,400
Speaker 3: i just know that there's a, mistake that this would

337
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:07,920
Speaker 3: be straightened.

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00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 2: Out but the, lawyer he he doesn't really follow.

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00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,199
Speaker 3: Up he, didn't the police didn't follow, up the lawyer

340
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,200
Speaker 3: didn't follow. Up at that, POINT i was a. LAYMAN

341
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 3: i knew nothing about the law going. IN i. Didn't

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00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 3: it's like you're really learning as you go, along and

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00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 3: the sad part is you're learning with your. Life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah no room for, Error, yeah.

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00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 3: No room for er.

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00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,920
Speaker 2: Room before his, Trial rick's attorney convinced him to take

347
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 2: a bench. Trial in a jury, trial you pick your twelve. Jurors,

348
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 2: however in a bench, trial the judge is the sole trial.

349
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Speaker 2: Fact he's the one who hears the evidence and determines

350
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Speaker 2: guilt or. Innocence so you're putting all your eggs in one.

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Speaker 3: Basket he said that in my, situation it was better to.

352
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 3: Go and he definitely convinced. Me he gave me a

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Speaker 3: lot of different reasons and AND i really didn't want to,

354
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 3: Go LIKE i really didn't want. It but like you a,

355
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 3: kid it's your first time going through, this who would

356
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 3: you listen to other than the person that's supposed to

357
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 3: defend you your.

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00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 2: Attorney an attorney and his client are in a fiduciary.

359
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 2: Relationship he's supposed to look out for your best. Interests

360
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 2: he's supposed to defend you. Zealously in, retrospect as a

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Speaker 2: jail house, LAWYER i could tell you taking a bench

362
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 2: trial is a terrible. Idea it closes out a bunch

363
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,919
Speaker 2: of chances for your appeal to be heard because a

364
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 2: lot of the issues actually become non issues because the

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00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 2: judge is presumed to know the. Law But, eric he

366
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 2: didn't know this at the.

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Speaker 3: Time he was just a.

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Speaker 2: Kid On september twenty, seventh the judge Found Eric blackman

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Speaker 2: guilty of murder and was sentenced to sixty years in.

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Speaker 3: Prison i'll never forget my mom was in that courtroom

371
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Speaker 3: and like just the shriek that she let out was

372
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Speaker 3: like Some i'll never forget because we KNOW i hadn't done.

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Speaker 3: It everybody knew, it, everybody the whole, neighborhood, everybody the,

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00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 3: police they even knew even when they were seeing it

375
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 3: in that, room they knew THAT i hadn't done. It

376
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 3: they knew. It but they told, me you gonna say

377
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,159
Speaker 3: as to, Jail you're gonna go through all of, this

378
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 3: and those things played through my. Mind what was gonna

379
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 3: happen WHEN i got to the, penitentiary my, kids my.

380
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 3: Family hearing that Guilty verdy was like hand one of the,

381
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 3: worst if not the worst there of my life. Ever

382
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 3: just KNOWING i didn't do, it it was hard to

383
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 3: sleep at. NIGHT i. COULDN'T i COULDN'T i couldn't, REST

384
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 3: i couldn't, SLEEP i couldn't. EAT i thought about killing

385
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 3: myself so many, times even tried.

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Speaker 2: Once by the TIME i Met, eric he's working hard

387
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: to save his own. LIFE i met him in a

388
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: law library and he was deep deep in the, books

389
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 2: trying to learn everything he could to get himself out of.

390
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: THERE i think you were the one that told, me

391
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i used to tell everybody pro say gets no

392
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 2: play like that's like one of my, things like you represent,

393
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 2: yourself forget about? It, Right SO i think you were

394
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 2: the first one told me uh uh. RIGHT i was, like,

395
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 2: man what you mean IF i ain't got a, lorder

396
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 2: YOU i ain't getting out of. Jail so you file

397
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: stuff yourself and actually got some type of, rhythm, RIGHT

398
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 2: i mean not at first, obviously.

399
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 3: Right so, yeah we went through the process AND i

400
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 3: went through the direct appeal process the posting process that was.

401
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 3: Denied both of those were.

402
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 2: Denied the next step For eric was still pill to

403
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 2: the federal courts with the rid of habeas, corpus a

404
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: petition that claims you've been in prison on violation of

405
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 2: your constitutional. Rights it's your first and last federal.

406
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: Pill the only time that the federal courts will ever

407
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 3: look at a conviction or overturn the conviction is if

408
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 3: the state courts did not convict you correctly according to federal,

409
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 3: law THE us constitutional. Law so basically you have to

410
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 3: find not only that they were, wrong but they have

411
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 3: to be more than. Wrong they have to be so

412
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 3: egregious as to where LIKE i, mean it's a high

413
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 3: bar to. Pass you have.

414
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: To ask the district, judge the guy who smashes you

415
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: in the. Head give me a letter that you did

416
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 2: me wrong SO i can take it to your.

417
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 3: Boss, yeah so you asked him to reconsider his. Decision

418
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 3: if he, doesn't then and you have to find what

419
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 3: they call a certificate of ap pillability to. Him and

420
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: that's where you have to get him or her to

421
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: say where they were, wrong which they very very rarely

422
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 3: do we get to the point whether the certificate of

423
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 3: appillability Is granny AND i get these great attorneys And

424
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 3: retail And DAVID. P. CROME i appreciate them so much

425
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: because after WHAT i had been through with the first,

426
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 3: ATTORNEY i gave him. Hell and it wasn't, intentionally it

427
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 3: was just because Trust, yeah that was my, life that

428
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 3: had been my baby for so. LONG i finally had got,

429
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 3: some you, know AND i just couldn't give it, up

430
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 3: you know What i'm. Saying so you go through it and, like,

431
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 3: man they were the best attorneys THAT i ever could

432
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 3: have asked. For those people understood and they loved. Me

433
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: like even WHEN i was an, ass WHEN i was,

434
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: WRONG i had badgered them about what they were going to.

435
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 3: Argue what you're gonna, say you know What i'm saying like, this.

436
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 2: No just That i'd like to be told how to

437
00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: do their.

438
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 3: Job hey, LOOK i mean, HEY i was the only

439
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: person that was going to go back and do that

440
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 3: time at the end of the. Day so to jail

441
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 3: say hey we get to go. Back we are. Elated

442
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 3: but another problem presents. ITSELF i had been in jail

443
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: at that point so. Long money is, depleted don't have

444
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 3: many people around to. Help you have a new, Trial

445
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,239
Speaker 3: you have a new. Case what you're going to? Do

446
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 3: how do you perceied going? Forward and mister kron he was, like,

447
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 3: hey we got a few. Options and one of those

448
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 3: options was we could see if the c W, s

449
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 3: the CENTERM waw For, convictions will be willing to take your.

450
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 3: CASE i told, him, yeah you could do whatever you.

451
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 3: Want BUT i asked them about and they said, NO.

452
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 2: I had good luck with.

453
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 3: That. Yeah so you, know we come we have this

454
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 3: attorney meeting AND i see these the new. Faces i'd

455
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 3: never seen this one, little, small wildly looked woman like

456
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 3: she barely stood over the table like and she was, like,

457
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 3: Hey i'm Caring. Daniels and she was, like, yeah so

458
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 3: we are going to be here and taking your case

459
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 3: And we're looking forward to working with. You and the

460
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 3: first THING i said was when she got, finished was, Like,

461
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 3: hey but y'all told me no. Before why you tell

462
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,239
Speaker 3: me no? Before and LIKE i was just sitting there

463
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: intently waiting on the, answer and she didn't say. Anything

464
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: she just gave me that mother look and looked at

465
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 3: the paper and she liid it to. Me AND i

466
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 3: signed that paper and that was one of the best

467
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: things That i've ever done for my.

468
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: Life and that lawyer Was Karen daniel makes she rest in.

469
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: Peace she was a renowned wrawful convictions attorney who at

470
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: the time was a co director of The center For Wrangful.

471
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 2: Convictions she and the students she supervised one more than

472
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: twenty exoneration cases during her. Career she was a great,

473
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: woman a real hero who helped me out WHEN i

474
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 2: was lost in the airport coming From georgia and she

475
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: really didn't even know. Me she died in a tragic

476
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: hit and running car crash in twenty, twenty a lass

477
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: that's felt deeply across the innocence movement.

478
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: Community she liked my second. MOTHER i often tell people

479
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 3: like that she the one who gave me my second

480
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 3: birth who gave me my second. Life so to, me, like,

481
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: yeah she was like my mother and she just did so,

482
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 3: much like in a way for this. Community if she

483
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 3: didn't work your, case it didn't get you an. Attorney

484
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,959
Speaker 3: she made some precedent that you ultimately ended up, using

485
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: and everybody benefited from.

486
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 2: Her arrogan's new team of lawyers brought us case to

487
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 2: THE Us Seventh Circuit court Of. Appeals Judge Ronald guzman

488
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: Granted eric's petition for rid of habeas corpus and was

489
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 2: let out prison on bond penning of. Retrial actually the

490
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: same DAY i got, OUT i.

491
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: Was living life very barely because you always had the you,

492
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 3: know imposition that maybe you may go. Back you know

493
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 3: What i'm. Saying you knew what it was. Like you,

494
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: know it was always hanging. There it's like walking around

495
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 3: with that black cloud or that am build over your,

496
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 3: head just waiting for it to, drop and you didn't

497
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 3: know what it would. Be you. KNOW i know THAT

498
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 3: i hadn't done, anything BUT i KNEW i hadn't done,

499
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 3: anything you, know the first. Time AND i believe it's

500
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 3: the fall case that says even an innocent man still

501
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 3: faces a fifty to fifty chance if he goes to.

502
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: Trial SO i knew what my chances. WERE i didn't

503
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 3: want to go back to, jail BUT i knew WHAT

504
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 3: i had to. Do like we still had that hurd

505
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 3: her to get. ACROSS i was scared as. HELL i

506
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: wanted to prolonget as long AS i, could but then

507
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 3: that really wasn't a viable. Thought SO i told my

508
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: attorneys to let's do man. Trial it was six months

509
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: AFTER i got, out and we demand the, trial and,

510
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: uh when it came, time they decided not to. Proceed

511
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: they dropped the.

512
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: Charges then comes to, Celebration, nah.

513
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: Not, really because it was anti. Climactic you think it's

514
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 3: gonna be overw then you, think, like, hey life is.

515
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: Great you know a lot of us think that that

516
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 3: would be the end of the, movie Right, Na but

517
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 3: it's just the. Beginning BECAUSE i heard that thing for

518
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 3: like more than half of my. LIFE i didn't really

519
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: know like how to live without. It like it was

520
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 3: a different.

521
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: Era we come home to a different. Area it's a different.

522
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: World yeah it really. Is but then you you, know

523
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: you really just like wake up and you don't have

524
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: to worry about, That you don't have to go through. It.

525
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 3: Anymore but it's LIKE i don't, KNOW i don't even

526
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 3: remember the point to WHERE i didn't have to go through.

527
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 3: It so.

528
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: It's like it becomes our, life, right and it becomes

529
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: almost like which we're defined, by like you were actually

530
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: become a success story just like you start WORKING. Cwc,

531
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: right what is? That like where's the sweet part like

532
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: in your? Work and you know WHAT i, Mean.

533
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: LIKE i tell people like, THIS i guess the great

534
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 3: sweet spot is that you still get a chance to

535
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: work on trying to ultimately correct the system or not

536
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 3: allow whatever happened to me to happen to the next.

537
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 3: Person you, know that's the part that gets up and

538
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: keep me, driving you, know keeps me. Going at the same,

539
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: time it's like going back to visit your tournament to

540
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 3: over and over and over, again because every time you

541
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: pick up a, case it takes you right back to

542
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 3: that spot for. You every TIME i go to the,

543
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: court you, know And i'm, Good i'm, great rap, Everything

544
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 3: but sometimes that same fear creeps back is that first

545
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: day WHEN i was standing in there AND.

546
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: I know it's it's all, consuming it's all. Consuming, Yeah

547
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: SO i mean our day THAT i don't have A stateville.

548
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 2: Reference there's not a single day THAT i am not back.

549
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: There WHAT i want to ask, you, though is what

550
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: would you invite the, audience how can they help, you

551
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: or something that's near and dear to your heart? Right

552
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: what is your call to?

553
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: ACTION i guess my personal call to action is to keep,

554
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 3: fighting is to keep on trying to do things to

555
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 3: make our justice system. BETTER i know people might say

556
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: that we have like a great justice, system BUT i tell,

557
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 3: people much like Doctor king once said that an injustice

558
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 3: anywhere is a threat to justice. Everywhere so if one

559
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 3: person is in jail, wrongfully or if one person is over,

560
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: sentenced then it runs the chance of it happening to

561
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: two and three and four and five and so more

562
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 3: to where it'll become the. Norm AND i look at

563
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 3: so many people that are sentenced, today AND i see

564
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: a lot of people over. Sentenced we're punitively punishing people,

565
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: consistently like and WHAT i mean by that, Is, yeah

566
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 3: people make, mistakes people commit, crimes but do we take their?

567
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 3: Lives like for every. Infraction we have more people slated

568
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 3: to die in prison now than at any point in time.

569
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: Before so WHEN i say to, people, yeah you could,

570
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 3: say somebody committed a crime more or WHATEVER i say to.

571
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 3: You so what do we do do we take the

572
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 3: life from and to the people that say, Yeah i'll just, say,

573
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 3: hey what about that red stop sign that you? Read

574
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: what about that red light you? Read that's not what

575
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: penalty should you? Get you. KNOW i work with a

576
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: lot of different Org so the first thing IS i

577
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: work for The MacArthur Justice, center which is a civil

578
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 3: entity that sues for people like us and other people

579
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 3: who you, know face any civil rights. Violation we do

580
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 3: things like voters, rights prisoner, rights solitary wrongful, convictions wrongful,

581
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 3: death police, shootings and those type of. Things so these

582
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 3: are the things THAT i feel are really near and

583
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 3: dear to me being a chance to write the. SYSTEM

584
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: i also work for The Chicago Torture Justice, center which

585
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: works on basically trying to make sure that all of The,

586
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 3: birds The John, birds torture, victims you, know get justice

587
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: in their. Cases AND i sit on the board for that.

588
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 3: END i also sit on the board for another or

589
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 3: called The Justice Renewal, initiative where we try to give

590
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 3: jobs to youth that are you, know disadvantaged and targeted

591
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: or you, know return to, citizens and we try best

592
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: to work with youth on that front to ultimately help.

593
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: Them, yeah so they don't talk what we went. Through, yeah,

594
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: yeah exactly. Important so we'll have those links to those

595
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: organizations in the. Bile hopefully everyone will check them. Out

596
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 2: you get to find a word disclosing. ARGUMENTS i, really,

597
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: really really truly want to thank you for let me

598
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: tell your. STORY i really commend you your survive.

599
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 3: THANKS i Guess i'll take this time to just thank

600
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 3: the people that helped me to get to this, point

601
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 3: help me get, freedom help me be sitting here with you.

602
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 3: ALL i don't think THAT i get a chance to say, that,

603
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 3: well thank you and just tell those people how much they,

604
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 3: meant how much every little thing that they ever did help.

605
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 3: ME i thank all of those, people And i'd just

606
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 3: like to say thank, you thank, you thank, you thank,

607
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 3: you thank. YOU i don't THINK i can say it.

608
00:34:53,840 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: Enough thank you for listening To Wrongful. CONVICTION i like

609
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 2: to thank our executive Producers Jason flem And Kevin. Wadis

610
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 2: The senior producer for this episode Is Jackie, polly and

611
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: our producers Are Lyla, Robinson Conner, hall And Jeff. Cliveborne

612
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: our editor Is Roxander gwedy and special thanks To Jillian

613
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: forstad for help on this. Episode the music in this

614
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: production is by three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph

615
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: be sure to follow us On instagram At Wrongful, conviction

616
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: On facebook At Wrongful conviction, podcast and On twitter at

617
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: Wrong conviction as well As lava For. Good on all three.

618
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: Platforms you can also follow me On facebook And instagram

619
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: at Free Patrick pursley at Imkit culture two and online

620
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 2: at imkidculture dot. Org Wrongful conviction is a production Of

621
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company Number.

622
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: One tune in next week for the third and final

623
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 1: episode Of Wrongful, conviction Where Patrick persley plays the host

624
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: And patrick this time is going to Interview Jarvis ballard

625
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: about their tragic shared. Experience, now both of them are

626
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: innocent men who spent decades behind, bars and in this

627
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: intimate and highly emotional, episode they're going to talk about

628
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: the lies that Landed jarvis in prison and the patterns

629
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: of misconduct at play in so many wrongful conviction, cases

630
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: just like. Theirs, Now patrick Met jarvis the same TIME i,

631
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 1: did which is that this Year's Innocence network conference In, Phoenix.

632
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: Arizona both of us were immediately taken by this larger

633
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: than life. Character this guy just got out of prison

634
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: after two decades and he's there representing himself in such

635
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: a powerful. Way so these guys bonded. Immediately it was

636
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: an honor for me to be able to facilitate their

637
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: connection and to Have patrick on the mic in my

638
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: chair Interviewing. Jarvis it just means the world to, me

639
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: so tune in listen Next monday in The Wrongful conviction

640
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: podcast feed