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Speaker 1: Tonight, we have an expert with us, y'all with over

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Speaker 1: twenty years experience with the Atlanta Fire Department. Actually, I

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Speaker 1: think it's more than twenty five years experience when I

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Speaker 1: think about it. She has obtained the rank of captain.

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Speaker 1: She's a paramedic, she's an active shooter instructor. She's a

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Speaker 1: drone pilot, a ham radio operator, an arson expert, and

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Speaker 1: a Georgia Emergency manager. She serves as the forensic fire

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Speaker 1: medic for Nancy Grace and the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute.

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Speaker 1: She and I have worked active cases and cold case

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Speaker 1: scenes together. When I tell you, it is a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to welcome Nicole. Brought my buddy to Zone seven.

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Speaker 2: Oh I love you, Shirl. You know you my girl?

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Speaker 1: Oh honey, we've had a good time. People don't even know.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm telling you. We have done some

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Speaker 1: incredible things.

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Speaker 2: And I am so looking forward to us continuing on

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Speaker 2: the journey we've been doing. We've been on over the

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Speaker 2: last couple of years. It's been amazing and you know.

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Speaker 1: Just having somebody at your level, with your experience and

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Speaker 1: expertise to break down cases to make us think outside

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Speaker 1: the box. And I just got to tell y'all something.

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Speaker 1: I took the smoke diving class at Cobb County Fire

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Speaker 1: Department when I was the law enforcement trainer at the

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Speaker 1: DA's office. It was not for me, mister Cole, you're

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Speaker 1: a little crazy.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know that's what I've been doing. Captain described

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Speaker 2: as that listen. I knew it wasn't a real fire.

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Speaker 1: I knew I was going to be perfectly safe and

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Speaker 1: still had people with me that were going to make

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Speaker 1: sure I got in and out. Okay, right, it was

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Speaker 1: still no fun. It started fun when they said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you want to go through the smoke diving class. That

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Speaker 1: sounded fantastic to me. That sounded like a fun afternoon. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: when I got in that trailer, I was ready to

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Speaker 1: get out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that he didn't hit you kind of different, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: And not being able to see, oh, it was something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was something.

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Speaker 2: You know. It's so funny. I had. It's funny that

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Speaker 2: you say that because I was talking to somebody the

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Speaker 2: other day and they were talking about how they thought

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Speaker 2: about come on the part department, but they had to

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Speaker 2: do all these things to get themselves ready, and I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I had to do the same thing too, because I

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Speaker 2: truly was claustrophobic. So what I would do And they

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Speaker 2: were like, hey, because he's not gonna work. But because

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Speaker 2: I was working at a shoe store making like two

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars every every two weeks, and I had two kids,

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Speaker 2: a houseboad a car, note and dogs, cats and everything else,

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Speaker 2: I got to have this right. I would go and

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Speaker 2: crawl up under my bed. Has to overcome my fear

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Speaker 2: of clausophobia. So, yeah, it takes its ease. It's very

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Speaker 2: gruel one. Yeah, it's it's it's something.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you will go to the extent. We

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Speaker 1: had a cold case and we wanted to understand how

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Speaker 1: hot could this fire have gotten quickly? And you set

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Speaker 1: fire to a structure and went in there and you

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Speaker 1: had a thermometer with you and you were telling us

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Speaker 1: through your you know, microphone and walkie talkie, Oh we're

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Speaker 1: about at twelve hundred.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely yeah. And it is no joke.

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Speaker 1: No, it's no joke. And you know I learned something

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Speaker 1: during that smoke diving class. I made the statement that, well,

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Speaker 1: how fast had a house burned down? And the chief

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Speaker 1: at the time went, houses don't burned down. They burnt up.

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Speaker 1: I've never forgotten that because when you go to a

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Speaker 1: scene and you're with the arson expert, and I've been

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Speaker 1: with you where you've shown me the pattern, it's going

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Speaker 1: to go up that wall and it's going to go

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Speaker 1: across that roof, so it's affecting the floor of the

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Speaker 1: second story.

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Speaker 2: Long before that's right.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is something that resonates with me

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Speaker 1: to this day when I go to a scene that

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Speaker 1: that house burned up. So, you know, the only other

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Speaker 1: thing I want people to know about you. You do?

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Speaker 1: You know fires for a living, You understand fires, you

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Speaker 1: set them for training, you go into them as part

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Speaker 1: of your job. But you have a hobby, honey, I

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Speaker 1: don't know that most people really know about it. But

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Speaker 1: it's a pyrographic artist. Tell people what you do to relax.

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Speaker 2: So much So funny you say that too, because I

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Speaker 2: had did a thing for my mom happy word up

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Speaker 2: here at the ARV dealership and I had don a

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Speaker 2: it's a piography piography art if you will. It's called woodburn,

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Speaker 2: but it's taking a really really hat odd device call

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Speaker 2: a pen and artistic I draw pictures on wood if

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Speaker 2: you will.

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Speaker 1: That's wonderful. Well, I'm gonna need me a piece of

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Speaker 1: art for the back cave.

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Speaker 2: Oh, let me do that for you. Please be wonderful.

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Speaker 2: Please let me go back a mine. That is my relaxation.

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Speaker 2: It is absolutely my relaxation.

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Speaker 1: Let's get in this thing, because this is the case

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Speaker 1: that you and I have talked about privately, just as friends,

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Speaker 1: and it's I know, it's a case that just breaks

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Speaker 1: our heart. And gosh, it was twenty sixteen and there

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Speaker 1: is a family of five that moves into their new

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Speaker 1: home in rural Indiana, right off East Columbia Street, four

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Speaker 1: little girls and their mama. And one summer night, Galen

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Speaker 1: Rose jumps up and she is just struck immediately with

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Speaker 1: the amount of smoke and flames all over her house.

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Speaker 1: She attempts to get to the second story of her

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Speaker 1: house because she had put her children to bed, all

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Speaker 1: four little girls, Keana eleven, Kiara nine, Kirie seven, and

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Speaker 1: keone five. They're in bunk beds, you know, two on

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Speaker 1: one side of the room, two little beds on the

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Speaker 1: other side of the room. She cannot get up the

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Speaker 1: stairs to call. It's too hot, the flames are too closed,

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Speaker 1: the smoke is too much, and it wasn't for lack

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Speaker 1: of trying. She had burns all over And this is

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Speaker 1: something I want you to touch on. Her corneas were burned.

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Speaker 2: Do you know how much pain you would have to

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Speaker 2: endure for your corneas to burn like the passion whatever

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Speaker 2: you're trying to get to be able to stay in

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Speaker 2: a fire that hot for your corniness wud Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: You are literally close enough to flames to burn your eyes.

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Speaker 1: Three o'clock in the morning, everybody, all the neighbors, everybody's asleep.

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Speaker 1: When she can't get to them, She's screaming for them,

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Speaker 1: and this is gut wrenching, but they're screaming for her.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: So the girls are awake. She runs to neighbors, everybody

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Speaker 1: tries to help. Everybody's now up and trying to do

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Speaker 1: everything they can. It is a desperate and chaotic and

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Speaker 1: heartbreaking scene because now even neighbors can hear the girls screaming.

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Speaker 1: So when you get a call out like that, it's

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Speaker 1: about three thirty five am, and it's whatever level of

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Speaker 1: alarm that is coming out, and you know that there's

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Speaker 1: possible victims in the home. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 2: So how it would ring out for those here in Atlanta,

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Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure around the country, the call would

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Speaker 2: be structure fire with possible entrapment. That's how the call

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Speaker 2: goes out, So that alerts us to the possibility that

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Speaker 2: there are people in the structure. Right, we operate differently

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Speaker 2: with people being in the structure. So let me paint

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Speaker 2: this picture. Fire safety. Life safety and a fire situation

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Speaker 2: is always going to be top priority, right, It's going

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Speaker 2: to lead everything that we do. Then we'll talk about

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Speaker 2: property conservation. And so once we get a call and

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Speaker 2: we understand that there's somebody inside some things forego In

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Speaker 2: a regular fire, we have to wait what's called a

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Speaker 2: rapid intervention team. Right in a rapid intervention team that

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Speaker 2: is a team of an engine comprised of here in Atlanta,

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Speaker 2: engine company and a truck company will pair up together

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Speaker 2: in the event that someone goes in. Firefighters go in

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Speaker 2: and they are met with unfavorable conditions where they cannot retreat,

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Speaker 2: so that RIP team would go in and rescue, which

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Speaker 2: is a rapid intervention team. That's what RICH stands for

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Speaker 2: a rapid invention So they would go in, locate those

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Speaker 2: firefighters and bring them out. That's what they're tasked for.

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Speaker 2: That's their only job there. When we have a situation

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Speaker 2: where there's an entrapment, there are citizens within the structure

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Speaker 2: that goes out of the window. So that's how important

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Speaker 2: that is that goes out of the window. We go in,

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Speaker 2: we rescue, we make the rescue, and we've done it.

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Speaker 2: Atlanta has done it on multiple occasions. I'm so proud

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Speaker 2: of our department. We've done it, and I'm sure like

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Speaker 2: other departments, we've gone in and we've made the rescue.

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Speaker 2: So when this fire happened, I can't tell you how

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Speaker 2: heartbreaking it is. And I've been on fires where we've

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Speaker 2: had to pull bodies out of fires. Right in this fire,

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Speaker 2: there were so many things that there's so many questions lacked, unanswered,

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Speaker 2: so many stones unturned, and it's so heartbreaking considering the

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Speaker 2: circumstances around this case.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they have not lived there long, so on the

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Speaker 1: one hand, you're like, nobody can hate them. They just

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Speaker 1: got there, and you know, she did things that any

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Speaker 1: mama would do in a new community. She got the

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Speaker 1: girls in school. They immediately started cheerleading with Little League teams.

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Speaker 1: They were making friends. The neighbors talked about how sweet

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Speaker 1: they were, how well they played with everybody. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just unimaginable that somebody would want to hurt them

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Speaker 1: in any way. But the death certificates, Captain are very clear.

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Speaker 1: The cause of death is affixiation with inhlation of carbon

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Speaker 1: monoxide and soot. Absolutely, So when Mama says they were screaming,

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Speaker 1: they were alive. That tells you all day that we

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Speaker 1: have people who were conscious and alert at least that right.

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Speaker 2: So, how did this? How did this happen? And that's

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Speaker 2: the little question that I think that the entire investigation

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Speaker 2: team has botched.

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Speaker 1: Originally, the fire was ruled undetermined, which for me is

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Speaker 1: always a source of frustration because it means you don't

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Speaker 1: have enough evidence. But a few months go by and

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Speaker 1: the Arson investigator rules it Arson. There's accelerant found in

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Speaker 1: the home. Now, one thing I want you to talk about.

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Speaker 1: They focused on the kitchen and they looked, of course

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Speaker 1: at the oven and the refrigerator and other appliances that

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Speaker 1: are plugged in all the cords. It says in the

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Speaker 1: report all the cords are in good shape. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean?

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Speaker 2: That means that there's no way that could have started

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Speaker 2: the fire. There's like, appliances don't spontaneously combust if it's

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Speaker 2: an electrical issue, the only thing that that can be

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Speaker 2: tracked back to are the electrical wires. That's the only

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Speaker 2: thing that that's what governs the electricity within that appliance.

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Speaker 2: I don't even I don't want to be disrespectful. It

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Speaker 2: makes a case so unbelievable in the assessment of how

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Speaker 2: this fire started.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's what I want to ask you about patterns.

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Speaker 1: Fire patterns, because if everybody listening can imagine like a

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Speaker 1: gas can, when you just kind of toss it out,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna make a pattern like you're almost poor milk

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Speaker 1: out of a picture, it's gonna look that way. It

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Speaker 1: will if it slighter fluid, that tiny thin stream, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna look like that. So if you're squeezing a lighter

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Speaker 1: fluid can on the wall, you're gonna see the top

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Speaker 1: of that is very thin, and then it'll drip down.

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Speaker 2: You'll see the splatter. You'll see you'll see the splatterer patterns,

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Speaker 2: And those are very obvious and evident, and those they

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Speaker 2: can't be misconstrued for anything else but exactly what it is.

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Speaker 1: So that's my confusion. Is how was this undetermined? If

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Speaker 1: in fact you have accelerant and if in fact you

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Speaker 1: have a.

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Speaker 2: Pattern, absolutely, and that's why that's what makes this case

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Speaker 2: so unbelievable. The biggest unbelievability to this thing, if you will,

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Speaker 2: is the fact that the State of Indiana will not

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Speaker 2: release those records so that those that investigation can be

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Speaker 2: further interviewed and investigated. Right, we have no idea because

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Speaker 2: at this point everything is a speculation because there's nothing

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Speaker 2: besides the few documents that we have, but the actual

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Speaker 2: case on the actual you know, real documents on this

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Speaker 2: case have been sealed by the State of Indiana.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the State of Indiana for a minute,

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Speaker 1: because people are going to recognize the name. I'm fixing

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Speaker 1: to yous Doug Carter with the State Police. Everybody in

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Speaker 1: this audience understands he was involved with the del Phi murders.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: He's the person that gave all the updates in the

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Speaker 1: press conferences. Doug Carter worked this case. Doug Carter flat said,

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Speaker 1: Mom's not of suspect. He goes on to talk about

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Speaker 1: they're still working this case, they're still looking for answers,

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Speaker 1: they're still looking for suspects. They're still looking for people

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Speaker 1: that he believes and I do too.

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Speaker 2: Somebody has information, absolutely, because there were so many things

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Speaker 2: in this case that was completely horrific. There were incidences,

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Speaker 2: there were actions that should have never been taken, and

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Speaker 2: those things, those questions have to be answered. It's uncharacteristic

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Speaker 2: of and I hope I'm not jumping ahead on this,

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Speaker 2: but it's uncharacteristic for a fire truck engine apparatus person.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't matter. It is uncharacteristic for anybody within the

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Speaker 2: fire service to remove fire victims and lay them out

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Speaker 2: on a fire station floor.

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Speaker 1: Well, tell us more about that, and tell us why

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Speaker 1: you think that occurred.

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Speaker 2: So there is a whistle blower. There was a whistle

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Speaker 2: blower who revealed a lot of different inconsistencies or or

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Speaker 2: and or action that were taken that should have never

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Speaker 2: been done, some things that should have never been done.

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Speaker 2: One of those things was the fact that these bodies

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Speaker 2: were removed from the crime scene. Because now it's a

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Speaker 2: crime scene, right because you've ruled it an arson. So

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Speaker 2: now we know that this is a crime scene.

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Speaker 1: And let me say something before you go further, even

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Speaker 1: before they know that that's how you should work this scene.

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Speaker 1: If you've got four people children that have been killed

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Speaker 1: in a fire, I would work that as an arson

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Speaker 1: every time.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, So from that a line of allegations of

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Speaker 2: corruptions was revealed. So one of the biggest thing, like

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Speaker 2: we're saying, as far as the bodies being removed from

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Speaker 2: the actual fire, the house, the structure fire, the home

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Speaker 2: to the firehouse, that is a complete no, no, not

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Speaker 2: sure how that even occurred. Should have go into all

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Speaker 2: of the differences.

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Speaker 1: Sure, well, I'll tell you one thing that's on the news.

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Speaker 1: They haven't had a formal interview with the mother. That

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Speaker 1: should have been done. That should have been the first thing.

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Speaker 2: But you know that they ended up making her although

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Speaker 2: the carter came out and said that she wasn't, other

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Speaker 2: people made her out to be the culprit. And they

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Speaker 2: said because she admitted to you know, had smoking marijuana

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Speaker 2: or something the night before, right, and so they had

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Speaker 2: they took that information and then began to accuse her

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Speaker 2: of being the reason why these babies.

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Speaker 1: Died because she smoked weed, despite.

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Speaker 2: The fact that she did everything. I don't know too

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Speaker 2: many I know, no, and I don't mean to laugh

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Speaker 2: at that, I'm just like, are you I'm laughing out

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Speaker 2: of sarcasm because it's like, did you really think that

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Speaker 2: that was gonna support your story?

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Speaker 1: And I'll just say I've watched movies, and in the movies,

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Speaker 1: when people are puff puff pass, they have to relight

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Speaker 1: the joint. And to me, if you have to relight it,

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Speaker 1: it's because it went out.

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Speaker 2: It's nowhere near like a cigarette where people are will

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Speaker 2: fall asleep, nowhere near it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me just ask you this point, Black, Over

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Speaker 1: twenty five years at the Atlanta Police Department, how many apartments,

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Speaker 1: house fires, cars, mattresses have been set ablaze with a doobie?

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Speaker 2: I've not come across not marry a one.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, let's move on. That was my point.

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Speaker 2: So not a one. And I can guarantee you my

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Speaker 2: colleagues will say the same. And I'm gonna tell you

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Speaker 2: that even and even okay, let's go, let's go a

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Speaker 2: little bit further. Even to have smoked weed prior to

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Speaker 2: a fight was not the cost. I've never heard of

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Speaker 2: tracking smoking weeds, being well, this is why the house

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Speaker 2: going on fire. They smoked some weep of the night

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Speaker 2: before that. That is not that's not how that goes.

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Speaker 2: It's not not at all. So you're right, we can

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Speaker 2: we can move past that because now we know that

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Speaker 2: that's a farce.

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Speaker 1: Right, She's being honest about something that she knows is

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Speaker 1: not gonna make her look great.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, So the question loans God going back to

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Speaker 2: how did this start? If we're talking arson, and we're

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Speaker 2: talking Arson, we know that this mother could not have well,

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Speaker 2: how would the mother set her space on fire? Okay,

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Speaker 2: with splatters of this and that and the other. How

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Speaker 2: would the mother end up burning her own cornea trying

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Speaker 2: to rescue her babies? Because any any real good mother,

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Speaker 2: she's gonna do that. She would have taken all the

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Speaker 2: babies out and said, oops, I don't know what happened.

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Speaker 2: We went to the store, and we came back and

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Speaker 2: the house was on fire. Yikes.

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Speaker 1: And this wasn't like just some of the hair on

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Speaker 1: her arm was singed. She had to be airlifted and

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Speaker 1: resuscitated due to her injuries, and the medical report says

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Speaker 1: she had burns all over her body.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm. That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know how why that finger pointing started

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Speaker 2: and but you know, again, we're living in there, We

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Speaker 2: live in those days and times where it's she's single,

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Speaker 2: she's black, she's got multiple children with multiple fathers. So

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Speaker 2: now it's like, oh, she's got to be a bad

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Speaker 2: person because of that, right, that's what they try to

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Speaker 2: make her out to be. But then when you look

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Speaker 2: at the entire story, so it's like, why aren't we

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Speaker 2: just stopping with the mother. Why is that a thing

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Speaker 2: when there are so many other people involved in this

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Speaker 2: case who had way worse intentions, way worse intentions than

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Speaker 2: they could have ever pinned on this mother. So it's

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Speaker 2: start with the landlord.

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Speaker 1: There was a smoke detector in the house. Now, the

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Speaker 1: law in Indiana, if you're a landlord, you have to

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Speaker 1: have a working smoke detector. The smoke detector was found

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Speaker 1: on the landing at the stairs. The most interesting part

338
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Speaker 1: about that is there was no battery in it, so

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Speaker 1: it wasn't operational.

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Speaker 2: Nope, no. And she had called about.

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Speaker 1: That, that's right. She called about that, She called about

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Speaker 1: doors not locking, she called about other things. And here's

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Speaker 1: a thing about factual information. She sued the landlord for

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Speaker 1: wrongful death. Nothing came out in that trial. That she

345
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Speaker 1: had done anything incorrect.

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Speaker 2: That's right, because she didn't. But the interesting part is

347
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Speaker 2: how did he manage to file in insurance or you know,

348
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Speaker 2: to insure this space for five six times more than

349
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Speaker 2: what it was worth just six weeks to the fire.

350
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Speaker 2: How is nobody talking about that.

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Speaker 1: And not being in compliance? And how is how is

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Speaker 1: anybody missing the number one rule of any homicide follow

353
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Speaker 1: the money, because if this is arson, it is murder.

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Speaker 2: Follow the money.

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Speaker 1: Now, Nicole, I want to be clear, do we know

356
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Speaker 1: whether or not the niece that lived in the side

357
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Speaker 1: by side unit because it was a it was a

358
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Speaker 1: single standing home, a house, but it was divided up.

359
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Speaker 1: Do we know when she was awakened and got outside,

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Speaker 1: did she already know nine one one had been called?

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Speaker 1: Or did she call him before anybody called nine one one?

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Speaker 2: She called him before anybody called Ninemal ways, you would

363
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Speaker 2: think that's the first. But now these two, now these two,

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Speaker 2: this is according to even her own account. Right again,

365
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Speaker 2: these are the records that have been sealed by the

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Speaker 2: Indiana State, the State of Indiana. So why is the

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Speaker 2: State of Indiana with holding vital information that could track

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Speaker 2: back who called, how they called, what was said, why

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Speaker 2: how long did it take the why did it take

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Speaker 2: the fire department? Five hundred feet? Okay, now five hundred

371
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Speaker 2: feet is the fire station from the structure.

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Speaker 1: Five hundred feet? You could a run there, because here's

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Speaker 1: the reality. You know, you hear that the fire started

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Speaker 1: just after three am, but the nine one one call

375
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Speaker 1: didn't go out until nine thirty five.

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Speaker 2: Somebody had to smell something, somebody something hanged. It's hard

377
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Speaker 2: to believe. It's just hard to believe the circle. How

378
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: these how this has lined aligned, how these events have aligned.

379
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Speaker 2: I can't even begin to fathom how as a firefighter,

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Speaker 2: as a and thank god, let me just I have

381
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Speaker 2: to pause here and thank God for the police officers

382
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: who risk their lots to go in and rescue those kids.

383
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Speaker 2: I have to give them so much, so much thanks

384
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Speaker 2: for what they did. Like that took. Like you said before,

385
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Speaker 2: when you went and did that, takes a lot of

386
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Speaker 2: guts to go in with no mask, no gear, no anything,

387
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 2: and you don't.

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Speaker 1: Know if that roof's going to come down on you,

389
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Speaker 1: or the stay ups or and you know, I just

390
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Speaker 1: want to say this at this juncture because I think

391
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Speaker 1: it's something that needs to be said in my world.

392
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Speaker 1: In your world, we get an emergency call and we go.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm. That's right.

394
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Speaker 1: Race is not a factor. Gender is not a factor,

395
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Speaker 1: Religious orientation is not a factor. We go. We don't

396
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Speaker 1: know who it is. We don't know always what they

397
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: even need. Sometimes we get a nine one call and

398
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: it comes out as disturbance. I don't know what that means.

399
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: Are people fighting, cousin shooting?

400
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Speaker 2: How does that right? How does that line up with

401
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: what am I going to expect once they get on scene?

402
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: What am I looking for?

403
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Speaker 1: Absolutely? And I often tell young people, rookies, if you

404
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: want to see the best of humanity, you're about to

405
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Speaker 1: do it. People are going to hear what I have

406
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: to say, and they're going to argue with me that

407
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: there are racist police officers, preachers, teachers. Okay, Yes there

408
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: are racist people in this world. Yes, it's all over.

409
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Speaker 1: The majority that work in our business can't be. They

410
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: can't be, y'all. If you look at who gives rescue breaths,

411
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Speaker 1: if you look at who risked their lives to save somebody,

412
00:25:53,960 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: they don't even know. There's a photograph from this case, Nicole,

413
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: I can hardly look at it because it is young

414
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: youth football players wearing their jerseys and they are serving

415
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: as pall bearers for these little girls. That to me,

416
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: that's reality. You've got people that do care, that do

417
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: want to know what happened, And like Doug Carter said,

418
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Speaker 1: they're still working, They're not done.

419
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Speaker 2: I'm so glad of that. I'm so glad that they

420
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: are really still pursuing this case because it deserves to

421
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: justice that the Delphi murders, you know, which happened just

422
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: a few months after this, It needs to have the

423
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: it needs it garners the same attention, the same respect,

424
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 2: and the same dedication and hours that were put into

425
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: the Delphi murders. These young girls deserve it.

426
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Speaker 1: Well, you know my mantra because you live it too.

427
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: Every tool on every case, every time that's it, throw

428
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: it at it. You and I worked a case and

429
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: you called me and it was an active case. We

430
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: had a car that had been set ablaze and the

431
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: victim was not inside, and you said, I'm bringing the drone,

432
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: I'm bringing everything I've got. We're going to walk it.

433
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: And it was important that you and I walk it,

434
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: and I preached that all the time. But you can't

435
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: understand the scene that you ain't stood at. And when

436
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: you and I got there together, we looked at each

437
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: other and almost immediately simultaneously said, she's right here, somewhere,

438
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: she's right here. And she was. And the reason we

439
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: knew that is because the way the car was burned

440
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: and left the person was lazy. They were lazy, not

441
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: in a hurry. There's a difference, and we thought he

442
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: ain't taken her far because he's.

443
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 2: Lazy, you know, because he's not.

444
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: But again, you brought everything and every tool on every case,

445
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: every time period.

446
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: That's right, so now so so so on this one. Right,

447
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 2: So we went from the like you said, the initial

448
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: investigation going into a full scale arson case. Right so

449
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 2: now this so now they find discrepancies and the investigation

450
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: now raises questions. So from here right now, we got

451
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: to find out what happened. Why were key pieces of

452
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: evidence lost or contaminated? Why? How is that? Because you

453
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: don't botch evidence. This is again what you to your point,

454
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: you throw everything at it, and everything that you throw,

455
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: you're not going to throw stuff away because you're if

456
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: you're really truly dedicated to finding the cause of this case,

457
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: you're going to make sure that everything is handled properly

458
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: and in order right, and that's not what happened here.

459
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: So that led to allegations of corruption between local law

460
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: enforcement and government officials. The mishandling of the evidence look

461
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: like still smells life deliverate cover ups fueled by rumors

462
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: of connections to powerful individuals.

463
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: And I'm going to say again something I've said before.

464
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: If you don't want conspiracy theorists, if you don't want

465
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: people to make allegations that you are corrupt or inept,

466
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: don't lose evidence, don't do it. I don't know how

467
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: in a case of this magnitude that's even possible. There

468
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: are safeguards to where that doesn't happen. So it's a

469
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: shame all the way around. Now we'll say I have

470
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: reached out to the girl's mama. Hopefully she'll respond. Hopefully

471
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: we can push to maybe get somebody to come forward,

472
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: we can keep the case in the media, and you know,

473
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: maybe even help her if there's something that she wants

474
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: to do about arsenal awareness. I don't know how we

475
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: can help her, but hopefully she'll call back and I

476
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: can get her in touch with you, and maybe you

477
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: can even give her some answers.

478
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: Well, I've got her, I've got her information, her number, Yeah,

479
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: and I will. I will definitely give her a call.

480
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: I've been wanting to give her a call for a minute.

481
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 2: Those life has been so but I want to give

482
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,719
Speaker 2: But I want to call her when you know, I

483
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: really want to pursue. And I've been working this for

484
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: a minute since last year. I want to I want

485
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: to provide her with some answers. I've got a cousin

486
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: of mine who has been who has been working to

487
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: crack the Indiana situation, going through the state to see

488
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: what we can do as far as getting those cases opened.

489
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: And there's some things I've been like, I've been working

490
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: on my side, you know, working on my end with

491
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: trying to see how can we better facilitate getting her

492
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: what she need because I can't imagine as a mom,

493
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: and you're a mom too, you know, losing one child,

494
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: let alone all your children, and then wake up and

495
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: be the center of the investigation or the not even

496
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 2: just the center the investigation, but then being publicly accused

497
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: of being the reason why you've lost your children, Like

498
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: that's got to be one of the hardest things in

499
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: your life to have to even go through.

500
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: It's unimaginable.

501
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: You know, you can't even properly mourn your children, right,

502
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: you can't even mourn your children because you're having to

503
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: defend yourself.

504
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: I think your phone call to her is going to

505
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: be an important one, and just my advice to you,

506
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: make the call. Don't wait till you have something. She's

507
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: sitting there with nobody, make the call.

508
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: You're right now, you're absolutely right, You're absolutely right, You're

509
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: absolutely right. I'm going to give her a call today

510
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: because they think she does need to have at least

511
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: feel like somebody is in her corner, and she has

512
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,239
Speaker 2: been receptive to my call, so I will definitely do that.

513
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: I think that's the least she's old. Is that just

514
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: somebody to talk to who understands what she's going through.

515
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: And if nothing else, there are questions that I have

516
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: that she has. I'm sure she probably has, if not

517
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,719
Speaker 2: the answer, but enough to lead me to the answer

518
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: and you to the answer.

519
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: Captain Nicole Brock I cannot tell you just what it

520
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: means to me that you would be here on Zone

521
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: seven with me and work in this important case. But

522
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: I got to tell you it's great that your own

523
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: Zone seven. But it is just one of the honors

524
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: of my life that you're a part of my Zone seven.

525
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so glad that you made me a part

526
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: of your I feel like this is been one of

527
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: the most outstanding achievements I've had in such a long

528
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: time in my life. So I appreciate and I am

529
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: so honored to be a Zone seven member. You have

530
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: no idea. My daughter talks about it all the time.

531
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: I love that she is. She is such a doll,

532
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: so smart, oh my gosh. Yeah, smart and funny and grown.

533
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely that absolutely that she really has done that. But yeah,

534
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: we are. She and I are both so so grateful

535
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: to be a part of Zone seven. And I'm so

536
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: glad that you had me today. And I'm really looking

537
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,479
Speaker 2: forward for us making I'm going to talk to Galen.

538
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to talk to Galen, and she and I

539
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: gonna call it.

540
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: Every step is a step forward. Baby, Let's do it.

541
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: Yes, it is. Let's do this. I can't wait. Let's

542
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: do it. Let's make some listen, some headway. Let's give

543
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: her the same satisfaction that those del fire moms and

544
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 2: parents had that because she deserves us, She deserves it.

545
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: She deserves it, so I thank you so much for

546
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 2: having me in, y'all.

547
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I

548
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: always do with a quote, we continue on. We're gonna

549
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: continue just like we have been. I know it's not

550
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: what people want to hear, but we're gonna continue, and

551
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: I really believe that one day we will know Doug Carter,

552
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: Indiana State Police. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Zone

553
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: Saven