1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Quality votaries, but Joseph's gotten more married Mary quite contrary, 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: how does your garden grow with silver bells and cocke 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: shells and pretty mates all in a row. I think 4 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: we probably all recognize that nursery rhyme because that's what 5 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: it is. I mean, kids for ages have used that 6 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: over and over again. I remember that it was many 7 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: many moons ago being in nursery school is what they 8 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: used to call it, and we used all of these. 9 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: I think that teachers and I know nothing about teaching 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: small children, but they use these repetitive rhymes in order 11 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: to form language and get into rhythm, if you will. 12 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: But you know, these nursing rhymes have dark origins. I 13 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: think that many of you have heard that with Mary 14 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: Mary like contrary, its origin is said to go back 15 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: to Bloody Mary, who was Queen Mary the First of England, 16 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: and it has to do with her execution of hundreds 17 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: of Protestants over a very dark period in British history. 18 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:39,279 Speaker 1: And if you didn't know, some scholars believe that silver 19 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: bells and cockle shells are actually references to not things 20 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: that might adorn your garden, but actually they're tied back 21 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: to torture devices that were used in dungeons back during 22 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,639 Speaker 1: those days. Today, we're going to talk about a case 23 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: that has linkage to Mother goose If you will, seemingly innocent, 24 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: a place where you can go and enjoy your children 25 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: and watch them play Mother goose Land. Actually, but like 26 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: these nursery rhymes, there's a very sinister underlying story here. 27 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. 28 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: Joe before we dig into the fairy tale part of this. 29 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: I had no idea that there were little parks all 30 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: over America that had names like Storytime Park or Mother 31 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: goose Land until I saw the headline in this story. 32 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: It says Mother goose Land Murder. Can't Ohio, There actually 33 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: was a place called Mother goose Land. It's now known 34 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: as Cityfield Park, but it's still identified by those from 35 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 2: the area as Mother Gooseland. And we've got City Field 36 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 2: Park workers that are dumping trash cans nine thirty in 37 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: the morning, and they get to a big receptacle and 38 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: it's heavier than it should be, and as they look inside, 39 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: it appears to be a human body wrapped in plastic 40 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: has been shoved into the trash can. They immediately call 41 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: nine to one one and the identifier is Mother Gooseland. 42 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: So that's where today's story comes from, the Mother Gooseland murder. 43 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: But you were telling me about places that you knew of, Joe, 44 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: and in particular in New Orleans where you grew up, 45 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: going to a place that was kind of like this. 46 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: Right in the heart of City Park in New Orleans 47 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: is a location called story Land and it's been there 48 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: since the fifties. And when you walk through the gate, 49 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: it's you know that scene in Willie wanng Go where 50 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: they the kid the real Willy Wonka. I'm not talking 51 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: about this thing with Johnny. I'm talking about the real 52 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: Willy Wonka with the great late Jean Wilder, thank you, 53 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 1: the late great Gene Wilder, where they opened that door 54 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: and you see all of that candy. I don't know 55 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: about you. That was magical to me. That's the way 56 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: Storyland was when I was little in New Orleans. And 57 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: it's got all of the Mother Goose characters. There. You've 58 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: got old Mother Hubbard, You've got actually Mother Goose in 59 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: the air flying on her goose with children on her 60 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: back on the back of the goose as well the 61 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: little old man that lived in the little old house, 62 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, the crooked house, and it just goes on 63 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: and on, I mean, and you could walk and run 64 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: and play through all of these things. It's a glorified playground. 65 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: But they also had like a little roller coaster. And 66 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: it's not just me if you talk to any kid 67 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,239 Speaker 1: that was the grew up and I split time growing 68 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: up in New Orleans when I was little. You know, 69 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: we you know, we lived in various locations, and but 70 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: those memories you know that you have when you're a kid. 71 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: I remember going to the streetcar line and New Orleans 72 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: is famous for the street car that runs down Saint 73 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: Charles and being there with my aunt and it was 74 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: the first place I ever put a penny on a 75 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: track and the street car would run over it, you know, 76 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: and crush it down. And of course that was adjacent 77 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: to one of another beautiful UH park and zoo called 78 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: Audubon UH the Autumn Zoo, which again, you know, is 79 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: a magical place for me and all of the kids 80 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: you know that inhabit these spaces. But Dave Brother, I 81 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: got to tell you, it's when something that is this 82 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: innocent winds up in the midst of what truly is 83 00:05:54,520 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: a real horror show. You know that that imagery from 84 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: your past. I think that there were probably a lot 85 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: of places around the country that were similar to this, 86 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: because the place we're going to talk about today is 87 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 1: it has a lot of similarity. It sounds like to 88 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: you know this place that I that's beloved to me 89 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: as you know, as a kid that grew up around it, 90 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, down in New Orleans. Well, can you kind 91 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: of take us through this real quick, because you know, 92 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: I got to tell our friends kind of sit back, 93 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: and this is something that I think shocked both to 94 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: Dave and I when we heard this story. 95 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: Now, whenever our stories begin, Joe with somebody calling for 96 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 2: police to do a welfare check. It's a pretty innocuous 97 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: thing when you think about it, but in reality, for us, 98 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 2: it's usually a loved one, a friend, an employer that 99 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: had an expectation for you to be someplace and you weren't, and. 100 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: So they pick up, Hey, let me let me step 101 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: on you just for a second, apologize. I want everybody 102 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 1: to understand this. Welfare checks by law enforcement are done 103 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: minute by minute all over the country. This is not 104 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: something there's not something sinister that pops up every time, 105 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: and so writes you our day because with this particular case, 106 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: there's a big reveal here, I got to tell you. 107 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, here's your big reveal. Rachel Sheridan doesn't show up 108 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: for work and her mother, knowing the relationship with Sean 109 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: Goh and how volatile he can be, her mom. Rachel's 110 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: mom calls the sheriff's department and asks them to do 111 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: a welfare check on her. Deputies show up. They already 112 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: know that Rachel drives a maroon Jep Liberty, so they're 113 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: looking over the parking lot to see if they see it. 114 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: They don't. They go to the apartment and the door 115 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: to the apartment is open, not just unlocked and can 116 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: turn that. We're talking. The door is open, they can 117 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: see inside, but deputies don't see anything that anything that 118 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: actually gives them the right to walk into that apartment 119 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: right away without a search warrant. So it's suspicious, so 120 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: they stayed there. They called their boss, Hey, we need 121 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: a search warrant. Here's why. So they're waiting on search 122 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: warrant to right so they can go in the part 123 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: when they see maroon jeep Liberty being driven by Sean 124 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: go right in front of him, so hey, let's find 125 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: out what's going on. He's driving her car. He has 126 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: to know where she is, so boom, they go ahead 127 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: and light him up. Well, he goes to pull over 128 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: and Sean go takes off and runs. He flees the scene. 129 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: He flees through the woods and everything else, and he 130 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: gets away from him. They search for him for hours, 131 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: can't find him anywhere. Finally, the next morning they do 132 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: find Sean go At a homeless shelter and they take 133 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 2: him into custody on some other warrants that he has 134 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 2: out standing. Still they haven't found Rachel Sheridan. They don't 135 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 2: know where she is. Then that's when the nine to 136 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: one one call comes in from Mother Goose Land Park 137 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: now known as City Field Park, and the workers calling 138 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 2: with we got a body wrapped in plastic in the trash. 139 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: Can this Mother Goose location? This is up in you know, 140 00:08:54,160 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: adjacent to Canton, Ohio, Stark I think it's Stark County location. 141 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: And you know this park that is there, The Mother 142 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: Goose Park has roughly been in operation or was in operation. 143 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: And here's the odd thing. It opened in the fifties. 144 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: David Singh's been shuddered since the eighties, and you can 145 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: see the pictures of it online and there are all 146 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: these kind of magical looking, magical looking creatures that are 147 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: still existing. There's like a big whale in a lagoon 148 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: with its mouth open that kids could run into. How 149 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: can you resist not wanting to go into this place? 150 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: But when you take a look at it, it's got 151 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: kind of because it's not being used, it's kind of 152 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: got a real creepy vibe to it now because nobody's 153 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: maintaining these things. These things are always brightly painted. You know. 154 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: It's the type of stuff that you want to see 155 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: when you're a little kid. It attracts you to it. 156 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: You want to come in, Hey Mama, can we go 157 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: in here and play? You know that sort of thing. 158 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: This is the kind of place that you would see though, 159 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: and it's it's in stark contrast, you know, to like 160 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: what I love about Storyland in New Orleans that's really 161 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: kept up, brightly colored, all those sorts of things. And 162 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: you know, you think about the the deposition of a body, 163 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: it would I think that most people would not think 164 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: that it's a place where a body would be found, 165 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: maybe because it's an abandoned location and it has been 166 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:37,599 Speaker 1: shuttered since the eighties that it's it's nobody's going to 167 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: find it. And you know, sometimes it's just dumb luck where, 168 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: you know, because how many cases do we have where 169 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: people just like vanish off the planet and you don't 170 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: have any kind of idea where they went to the 171 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: fact that they were able to find her body, I 172 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: think relatively quickly is amazing and there's a bit of 173 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna call it joy, but there's a bit 174 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: of relief for the family because how many cases have 175 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: we covered over the years where you know, and I 176 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: still I get contacted all the time, particularly over social media, 177 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: can you help me? You know, we haven't seen our 178 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: and you know, helping people in that particular way is 179 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: not really my forte. But you know, there's so many 180 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: people out there that want to know where their loved 181 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: ones are. But I'm interested in something that you said 182 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: earlier about the welfare check. You know, when police typically 183 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: go and they must really have put the screws down 184 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: on the cops out here, because if they're not crossing 185 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: over that threshold to go into the location without a warrant, 186 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: and it's a welfare check most of the time if 187 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: you can if you know that somebody's in danger, as 188 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: long as you don't if the door is open and 189 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: you're calling out to them to check. I guess it's 190 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: probably departmentally dependent. When it's a it's it's health and 191 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: safety is actually kind of the the thread that runs 192 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: through this. From a legal standpoint, that's what they're trying 193 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: to do. You know, you can't go looking in hidden places, 194 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: and that's that's what the warrant would be for. But 195 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: it's again dumb luck that when they pivot and they 196 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: see her car moving down the road and then you 197 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: got a guy. They chase this guy down and he 198 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: bolts out of the car and runs off into the woods. 199 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: There's your sign. As they used to say. You know, 200 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: one of the questions I would ask when I would 201 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: show up at a scene, because you know, when by 202 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: the time the Emmy or corner investigator arrives at a scene, 203 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: you don't there's so many actors on the stage by 204 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: that time. Commonly, my practice, if there was some kind 205 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: of domestic beef that occurred, I would seek out the 206 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: actual beat unit, like the officer that was in the 207 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: patrol car, the unit that patrols this area their beat, 208 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: and I would go to that individual, not to their sergeant, 209 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: not to their lieutenant who was there, is like, hey, 210 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: can you tell me something. Have you ever rolled out 211 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: here on anything? Have you ever been by here, because 212 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: you'd be surprised. You know, when people see cops, you 213 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: know just kind of and I hate this term, but 214 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,119 Speaker 1: they'll say cops are loitering around. Well, they're not loitering. 215 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: They're sitting there and they're watching. Now I'm not a 216 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: big fan of, you know, speed traps, but if you're 217 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: in a neighborhood and you see a cop, you know, 218 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: that's kind of sitting there. They're watching most of the time, 219 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: and they know they've got their finger on the pulse. 220 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: They know more than people suspect about each house on 221 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: the block because they will have been called out to 222 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: domestic beefs, they will be called out when children are missing, 223 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: they'll be called out for an elderly person that has 224 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: fallen in the house, and they know that that and 225 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: some you know, you go back to this idea of 226 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things they teach is community 227 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: police and I don't know really how well that has worked. 228 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: But the idea of the cop getting out of the 229 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: car and just walking up to a fence and talking 230 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: to the elderly people that live on the street. Hey, 231 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: how you doing. I'm officer Mike, and this is my area. 232 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to introduce myself. So cops have a lot 233 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: of knowledge of that area. But you know, Dave, I 234 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: don't know if they even begin to suspect, or what 235 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: they would eventually find inside of that house, let alone, 236 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: or what they would find at the Mother Goose Park. 237 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: Here we go, boilerplate statement incoming. I found no evidence 238 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: of forced entry or struggle. Wish had a nickel for 239 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: every time I'd written that down. Wish I had a 240 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: bitcoin for every time I'd written that down. I'd be 241 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: a very very wealthy man. But because you know, it's 242 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: including all of our reports if we don't see anything, 243 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: but Dave, they they saw something at that at that home. 244 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: Not only was the door open, and there's no indication 245 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: that it was necessarily forced open, it was just open, 246 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like it had been kicked in necessarily. 247 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: That's an important part. Yeah, Yeah, because as they arrive, 248 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: they're doing a I want to go back to the 249 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: welfare jack. Yeah, they're already warned that this is a 250 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 2: vaul of a situation. Mom is concerned because she didn't 251 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: show up for work she always does, and she lives 252 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: with a man who is not oftentimes doing things in 253 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: her best interest. They have had a ballatle relationship. He 254 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: has allegedly beaten her before enough that family and friends 255 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 2: have been worried. And when they get there and they're 256 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 2: looking inside the apartment, they don't see anything that jumps 257 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: right out at them that says there was a struggle 258 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: or a fight in here. And as they're waiting for 259 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: that search warrant to arrive so they can go in 260 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: because at this point they're not seeing the whole apartment. 261 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: They're just seeing a living area and probably a kitchen, 262 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, And it's only after they get the 263 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 2: search warrant. By the time they've already got they they 264 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 2: know Sean Goh has taken off. He's running, so what 265 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: is he He's driving her car and he's now running. 266 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: So and she's nowhere to be found. 267 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: Right, I still can't find her, still have not been 268 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: able to verify, you know. So they go into the apartment. 269 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: Now this is after you know, they get the search warrant, 270 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 2: and I can't imagine Joe, that the search warrant was 271 00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 2: very specific, because it would have been we're looking, we 272 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: don't know where she is, we're trying to find her. 273 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: So would the warrant say they can go in the 274 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: apartment and look under things and see if they can 275 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 2: find share it. 276 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: You know, maybe it's it's going to be more specific. 277 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: And most of the time you have to have some 278 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: kind of probable cause that's going to be an ingredient 279 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: into this. 280 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: But the welfare check in and of itself is not enough. 281 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: They can't know that it's. 282 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: Well unless here's the thing. If you if you visualize, 283 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,959 Speaker 1: let's just say that that you walk into a scene, 284 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: I think that a magistrate or judge would bite on 285 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: the idea if you see what appear to be and 286 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: remember in forensics, we cannot say something is blood until 287 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: we test it and determine that it is blood. But 288 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: if you see what appears to be blood at a scene, 289 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: and you couple that with anything that you might find 290 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: in another location like broken or turned over furniture, certainly 291 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: any kind of item that might have specific evidence on it, 292 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: I think that a magistrate would probably be willing to 293 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: issue that warrant and you can go in and you know, 294 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: and you can go in and process the scene at 295 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: that point in time, but yeah, you have to hold 296 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: back because anything that you do absent a warrant, you're 297 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: really running the risk of that being thrown out from 298 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: an evidentiary standpoint. And if that pe and you never know, Dave, 299 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,719 Speaker 1: what is actually going to be critical to proving the 300 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: case or disproving the case with any type of item. 301 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: Let's say that you have some kind of instrument that 302 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: might create a particular pattern. Okay, if you discover that 303 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: instrument and you don't expressly have permission to do that, 304 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: or the warrant is written inappropriately, or whatever the case 305 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: might be, then did you know that that item can't 306 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: be included as part of the evidence. And so you 307 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: have to That's why they're very very careful about these 308 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: things because for so many years, you know, people would 309 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: just they would go in to a scene and you know, 310 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: with their hair on fire and not not show up 311 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: with the appropriate documentation relative to a warrant, and a 312 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: lot of stuff winds up being excluded, and if in 313 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: fact it is excluded, then that huge building block for 314 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: your case is blown at that moment in time, Dave, 315 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 1: all right. 316 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: And in this case, when they when they get the 317 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: search warrant and they go in, they're able to get 318 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 2: past the open the living area where they didn't see anything. 319 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: They're able to get into the apartment, and it's when 320 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 2: they get to the bedroom that they realize, Okay, we 321 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 2: got a problem. We have a major problem. I remember 322 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: Sean go By, Rachel and Rachel Sheridan and Shaan Goh 323 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: lived together in this apartment, and he has been arrested 324 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 2: and is at jail on other charges, not to do 325 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 2: with this particular case of Rachel at the time. Remember 326 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: he was in her car. And so it's the next 327 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 2: morning he's in jail, and they've gone into the apartment 328 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 2: and they find in the master in the bedroom that 329 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 2: they share, that something has occurred. They see signs of struggle, 330 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 2: they see signs that point to a bloody fight. Yeah, 331 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: in the bedroom. And it's from that point on and 332 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 2: this is my I was curious about this because how 333 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 2: far did they go? We people bleed, a bloody knows 334 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 2: can cause a lot of issues. I'm also clumsy. I 335 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: tend to trip and fall so if something is knocked over, 336 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 2: if there's a little blood, you could explain that. But 337 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: we have a violent man in jail and we can't 338 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 2: find his living girlfriend, and so where do you go 339 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 2: from here? 340 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the blood can be easily explained by any 341 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: defense attorney. We've heard this over and over relative to DNA, 342 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: because if you're domiciled there, it's not unreasonable to expect 343 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: to be able to find blood that has issued forth 344 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: from one of the occupants that's that's also you know, 345 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: domiciled there, so and that can be explained away. Yeah, 346 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: I felt, you know, like you said, I tripped, I 347 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: hit my head, all right, that explains the blood that's there. 348 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: Or yeah, you know, when you're thinking about Rachel, maybe 349 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: Rachel had a bloody nose. I don't know about you. 350 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: I'm prone to bloody noses. You know. I can be 351 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: sitting in church and all of a sudden, I feel 352 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: that warmth, you know, beginning to run down my lip 353 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,719 Speaker 1: and it just spontaneously happened. Well, any attorney worth their 354 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: salt can make that argument, you know, if you find 355 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: but when you have this kind of dynamic event that 356 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: has occurred inside of the dwelling, particularly in the bedroom, 357 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: this very intimate space, and you've got there's a level 358 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: of reasonableness that comes into this. So if you've got 359 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: you don't expect, say, cast off blood from an instrument 360 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: to be on the walls. If you have a bloody nose, okay, 361 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: you don't expect to be to find a mattress that 362 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: is super saturated with blood, or sheets and towels and 363 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: all these sorts of things and you know, maybe soaked 364 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: into carpet or onto the hardwood floor. And the patterns 365 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: themselves showed that this was a dynamic event with movement 366 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: and deposition and all these sorts of things that have 367 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: a certain level of velocity. You know, back to the 368 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: example of a bloody nose, if someone standing there passively, 369 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: and that's a passive stain where it's just kind of 370 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: free falling through the air and it drops onto the ground. 371 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,959 Speaker 1: It's kind of a classic droplet that you would think 372 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: that drops straight down and there's not much dynamicism to it. 373 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: You can have actually maybe multiple of those spots, but 374 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: you're not going to have it in this kind of 375 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 1: an elliptical pattern that occurs with a little tail on it. 376 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: You know, where it's cast off and those sorts of things, 377 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: So you have a reasonable expectation that you would find 378 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: blood there. But in an environment like this, if you've 379 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: got multiple locations where blood has been shed, this is 380 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: gonna you know, this is going to give rise to 381 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: this idea that an attack probably occurred in this environment. 382 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: But you know, Daved, the thing about it is is 383 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: that still, even though you have this evidence that's there, 384 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: you don't have a body. And that's a problem. And 385 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: yet the moment you don't have a body, and that's 386 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: the rub, you know, you think about, you know, the 387 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: absence of in what a chill because if you're a 388 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: police officer, you're still thinking that if if there is 389 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: blood and there's no body, maybe there's a chance she's 390 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: still alive. Maybe there's a chance we can find her. 391 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, you know, in this case, that's that's not 392 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: necessarily true. 393 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 2: Dave Wow, Well, you know they're looking for Rachel Sheridan, 394 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 2: her living boyfriend is sitting filling his heels in jail. 395 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 2: They find blood in a mess in the bedroom and 396 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: then they get the sanitation workers at nine point thirty 397 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: that morning, they call nine to one one found a body. 398 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 2: Now they did not do a whole lot to look 399 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 2: at the body. They found a body and stopped, which 400 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 2: is incredible. I don't I wonder when I saw this, 401 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: I wonder how many times people have found a body 402 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: and immediately started poking around at it versus stopping everything 403 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 2: and calling nine on one. 404 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I've had, I've had. I've had multiple 405 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: scenarios that have occurred. I've actually had civilians that have 406 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: come over. I've actually had civilians to do this with 407 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: decomposed bodies where and don't ask me what compels them 408 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: to do this, because when you're around a decomposed body, 409 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: it's most of the time it's one of the most 410 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: important things you can you know that you can encounter 411 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: in life. I've had civilians that have encountered bodies like 412 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: that and they they roll the body over, whereas I've 413 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: had I remember, in particular, I had an autoerotic case 414 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: with a gentleman that had hung himself on a door, 415 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: on a door hinge with a dog. Call nude in 416 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: a microtel if you're familiar with those, and the little 417 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: lady that was that was the housekeeper. She came to 418 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: the door and she had just arrived here in the country. 419 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 1: I think she was from Guatemala, if I'm not mistaken. 420 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: She couldn't speak English. She's pushing her cart up and 421 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: down the hall day and opens the door, and this 422 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: nude guy hanging by a dog collar with his hands 423 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: tied is literally staring her in the face. And Dave, 424 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: when I got there, she the way she had alerted 425 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: that she had found the body was her screaming, and 426 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: she was sitting this poor this poor lady was sitting 427 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: on the floor clutching her rosary with her knees pulled 428 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: into her chest, doing Hail Mary's in Spanish. And she 429 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: was terrified. So you never know what anybody's reaction is 430 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: going to be, you know, when it runs the gamut, 431 00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, just like deaths run the gamut, you don't 432 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: know which going to find. But if you're a sanitation worker, 433 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: you come across some pretty disgusting things, as you can imagine, 434 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: as there's probably stuff that you and I could never fathom. 435 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: You know that those people encounter out there in the 436 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: streets of things that we throw away that they go 437 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: out and collect. And it's interesting how that initial contact 438 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: might very well impact the case or affect the position 439 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: of the body so that we don't necessarily appreciate it 440 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: in its pristine condition. But I can tell you this, 441 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: when they finally alerted the police in regards to this 442 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: young woman's body, they didn't touch it. They called and 443 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: what they discovered when the my got out there was horrific. 444 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: Sean Go, this person that I would assume, at one 445 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: point in time, professed, you know, professed his love for 446 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: Rachel Sharonan told her that he cared about her, told 447 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: her he would take care of her. And you know, 448 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: you know who knows, you know, with these domestic cases 449 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: that we catch like this, Dave, nobody knows anybody. You 450 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: never know the level of violence that anyone is particularly 451 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,959 Speaker 1: capable of because you don't know what their you know, 452 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: psychological history is, you don't know what their criminal history is. 453 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: But Dave, I got to tell you. With Shaun Go, 454 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: he he had he had a reputation as a bad seed, 455 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: if you will, bad seed. Now that's a dated comment. 456 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: You know. Also luck to use the term good egg 457 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: every now and then too. Just go with me. 458 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 2: She was a bad egg. Another reference to Jane Wilder. 459 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: Yep, there you go, the egdicator. 460 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 2: So in this particular case with Sean Goh, as I 461 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, as soon as police saw him, as they're 462 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: standing outside the apartment trying to find the very beginning 463 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: part doing their welfare check on Rachel, they see Sean 464 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 2: in her vehicle and they give chase. He takes off 465 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: in bolts. They get him locked up. And this isn't 466 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 2: the first contact that Sean Goh has had with police. 467 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 2: At the time he's arrested, he was wanted on a 468 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 2: number of different issues. He allegedly stole a handgun from 469 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 2: a residence in the North Canton area a couple of 470 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 2: months before Rachel goes missing. He had physically threatened Rachel 471 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 2: in the and friends and family knew about these threats 472 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 2: because he didn't just make a threat and that was it. 473 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 2: He made threats and he actually punctured. The actual stories 474 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 2: is cut holes in her tires. Now that I'm always 475 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 2: picturing a puncture, you know, like with a knife or 476 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 2: a screwdriver or something, but cutting holes in her tires 477 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 2: seems to take it to a different level. It's a 478 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 2: different phrase than I've ever heard, but. 479 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. That means that you're jamming. You're probably 480 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: jamming a sharp instrument in there. And I'm not talking 481 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: about like a piece of rebar. I'm talking about like 482 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: a knife, and you're going, you're you're carving the tires, 483 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: is what it comes down to. 484 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 2: Now, going into the sidewall. So the tire cannot be repaired. 485 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: It will have to be replaced, which is a lot 486 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: more expensive. Ten bucks to patch a tire hole versus 487 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 2: you know, one hundred dollars for a whole tire. 488 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and that's if you get a low 489 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: end tire. Right. And you know, this couple is unmarried, 490 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: they're living in an apartment together. She's driving a cheap liberty. 491 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: She doesn't strike me as somebody that's got a ton 492 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: of money. So when you strike out at her like this, 493 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: it's not just it's not just a violence that's implied. 494 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: It's also it puts a financial burden on her. He 495 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: would have known that because yeah, they yeah, absolutely, And 496 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: you never know what's going to set him off at 497 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: any particular time, what button is going to be pressed. 498 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: And you get somebody that has a history of violence, 499 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: I mean it violence extends for me, when you go 500 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: to someone's home and you actually steal a weapon, that's 501 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: that has that has a flavor of violence to it 502 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: in that environment, even if you don't have physical contact 503 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: or you're not threatening, you know, what's your purpose to 504 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: specifically go to a location and steal a gun and 505 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: then you have this action with the tires. I can understand, Dave, 506 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: I can understand why her mother would have been terrified. 507 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: Can you imagine? I bet there are so many times 508 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: she had probably spoken with her and this, this again 509 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,239 Speaker 1: is a thread. I worry about you, darling. Please is 510 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, can you break away from him? And you 511 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: never know what the dynamic is is somebody saying, you know, 512 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: oh I love him, He's going to change all this. 513 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: They never changed, Dave. They don't. It's it's it's the 514 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: same story over and over and over again, and you 515 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: wind up with something that winds up in this horror 516 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: this horror show that that's eventually discovered. 517 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 2: Just remember, any guy that will hit a woman once 518 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 2: is not going to stop at once. 519 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: No. 520 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 2: So here we have the sanitation workers called nine one one, 521 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: Rachel Sheridan's body. They find her at nine thirty or 522 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 2: that's when they call. So we know we have the day, 523 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: the moment of discovery. But we don't know exactly how 524 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 2: long she has been dead because we don't know other 525 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 2: than the welfare check call. We know that police recall 526 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 2: specific time after she didn't show up for work, but 527 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 2: we don't know right now. Can they determined based on 528 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 2: the body they find at nine thirty in the morning, 529 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 2: can they go back in time and figure out approximate 530 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 2: time of death? 531 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, and I And just to give you a 532 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: little insight, you know, when they first rolled up on 533 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: this case at the home they the police had shown 534 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: up I think on July the second, at about twelve 535 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: thirty two pm, so you're going into the afternoon hours 536 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: at this point in time. They were able to hook 537 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: him up, you know, because he bolted, you know, while 538 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: they were there initially. They actually found him on the third, 539 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: and they got on this pretty quick. I don't know 540 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: if they were able to track him somehow or you 541 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: know where, if they were pinging his phone or what 542 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: exactly happened they got it. 543 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 2: I that was they got him at a homeless shelter. 544 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: Right, And I'm talking about his movement relative to depositing 545 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: Rachel's body, because they actually found her on July the third, 546 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: so it was it was actually less than twenty four 547 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: hours when they finally found her body. Yeah, it would be. 548 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: She's going to be at the outer margins, Dave, as 549 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: far as postmortem changes go, you know where we're looking 550 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,919 Speaker 1: for the rigidity to begin to release. Also, and this 551 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,720 Speaker 1: is in this is in July, Dave, And so it's 552 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: gonna it'll be hotter. And as I've mentioned before, when 553 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: it comes to obviously body temp and certainly riger mortis, 554 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: those are going to be slightly accelerated. And when they 555 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: find her, she's actually cocooned and plastic. So he's taken 556 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: time to wrap her body up in plastic and has 557 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: driven out to the Mother goose Land area and found 558 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: a plastic track can not unlike you know what we 559 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: have at our homes that we roll out to the 560 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: street if you live in town, and you know, you 561 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: put by the road and the garbage guys come by 562 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: and pick it up, and you know, it was just 563 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: the sanitation workers, you know that looked into the can 564 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: and saw and can you imagine their horror, you know 565 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: when they lift that lid up and they look inside 566 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: and there's her body inside of this of a rubbish container. 567 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 1: You know, the things that you discard. And I think 568 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: that says a lot here, Dave. It speaks to potentially 569 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: how he viewed her as as refuse, something to be 570 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: thrown away, treated horribly, And there's it's fascinating to me, 571 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: as horrific as this is. As horrific as this is 572 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: when bodies are cocooned like this, for us in forensics, 573 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: it's actually there's an upside to this. The upside is 574 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: is that there's a containment of evidence that takes place. 575 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: So anything that's on the body, you have the opportunity 576 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: to retain that, and not just retain it. Here's the 577 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: cool part. You actually keep it in place on the 578 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: specific surfaces of the body if it's deepened, upon how 579 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: it's secured. So let's just say you've got a you've 580 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: got a bit of evidence, say a hair or something 581 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 1: that's on the shoulder. If they're cocooned in this wrapping, 582 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: you can still find that hair in place on the 583 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: shoulder and it might give you an indication as to 584 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: where his hands were on her or where his head 585 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: was in relation to her body. Did he slough hair, 586 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: did it fall off of his head onto her bloody handprint? 587 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: That may transfer to her clothes because you know, you're 588 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: having to manipulate dead weight here. If there's been a 589 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: spillach of blood that's so significant, he can get blood 590 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 1: on his hands, transfer those contact points to her shirt, 591 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: maybe the cuffs of her pants, maybe to her bare legs. 592 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: Drag her onto the sheeting, the plastic sheeting, wrap her 593 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: up in it. The other thing that it protects, because 594 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: plastic is a non poor surface, it protects latent prints, Dave. 595 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: We've recovered latent prints off of plastic sheeting before. And 596 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: then if there's blood involved, that's a different type of 597 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: print from say, for instance, a latent print that's oil. 598 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: That's the you know, generated from the oil in our fingertips. 599 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: If he touches her body with the bare hands and 600 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: he transfers his fingerprint onto that surface and it's the 601 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 1: medium is actually blood, that's a different type of print 602 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,240 Speaker 1: that can be recovered. So the fact that her body 603 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: is cocooned, even though it's in this filthy rubbish container, 604 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: she's kind of protected in that sense. But that's not 605 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 1: really what turned this case, Dave. 606 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 2: Is it they're able to determine police say that you 607 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 2: know she was attacked in the bedroom and then her 608 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 2: body was drug and placed and the damage, the wounds 609 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 2: were inflicted about her head, yeah, for the most part. 610 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 2: And they said she was beaten with an object. And 611 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 2: they're only willing they being police and the medical examiner. 612 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 2: They're only about to go as far as saying that 613 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 2: she was hit with a hammer at least once. And 614 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 2: I find that to be an odd comment. There was 615 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 2: only of all the battering that was going on, Yeah, 616 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 2: one was obviously a hammer. 617 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: They weren't all right, so if and they also believe, 618 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, that she was probably asleep when 619 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: this occurred. Sorry, Yeah, and no, that's a significant point. 620 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:18,439 Speaker 1: So this coward waits until this diminutive and she is diminutive, Dave, 621 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: a young woman is asleep and he begins to essentially 622 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:32,359 Speaker 1: wail on her. It's not surprising that they're identifying a 623 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: single hammer strike here. They found a hammer at the scene. 624 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:45,240 Speaker 1: But you know, this is not something that is well 625 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: thought out. This is very frenzied. They were able to 626 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: delineate that she had been struck, that she had ten 627 00:39:54,880 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: specific injuries that apparently are all blunt force trauma, and 628 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: this coward could have potentially have shown up with a hammer, 629 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: or he could have beaten her in her sleep with 630 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: his fist, striking her all about her head, and then 631 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: he goes and gets a hammer, and she's so she's 632 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 1: so wrung out. I mean, just imagine if you're awakened 633 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: from a dead sleep, and I know you can imagine this, 634 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: if you have kids, you can imagine this. You're slumbering, 635 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: you finally lay your head on the pillow, and suddenly 636 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: there's a scream that lets out in the middle of 637 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: the night in your house. You're completely diswarriented. How much 638 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: more so with her if she doesn't see this incoming 639 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: and she's attacked in her bedroom like this, And I 640 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,839 Speaker 1: guess the you know, the coup de gras is going 641 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 1: to be to take a hammer and have this single 642 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: hammer strike. The way they were able to delineate this 643 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: specific injury away from the others, and I'm not saying 644 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 1: that the others could not be hammer strikes, because hammer 645 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: can be held in any number of ways. And this was, 646 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: by the way, a claw hammer, which means it's got 647 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: a nail extractor on the back of it with the 648 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,879 Speaker 1: two prongs. The very common hammer that we see and 649 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: that most of us own. This is actually the blunt 650 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: and end, the leading edge that she's struck with, and 651 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: hammer strikes are very specific when you see them in 652 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,720 Speaker 1: the morgue. When we're doing these examinations, what would happen 653 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: is her head would be probably completely shaved at autopsy 654 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: because it's impossible to appreciate all of the injuries. And 655 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: so when a body is when you have head strikes 656 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: like this with women in particular, because women commonly have 657 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,240 Speaker 1: more hair than guys do, we actually shaved their heads 658 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: at autopsy. 659 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 2: I got to ask you something, Joe, and maybe this 660 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:12,359 Speaker 2: seems silly and no, but would you have to ask 661 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 2: the family about that? 662 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 1: No? No, I've had that question asking me before. This 663 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: is a search. No, we'll tell the funeral director, okay, 664 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,760 Speaker 1: and the funeral director generally will. Now we've had families 665 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: that will ask the question, you know, why did you 666 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: do this? And here's the sole reason where it's an 667 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: evidentary search. You know, you're you're trying to assess the family. 668 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: I think you know as time goes by, because they 669 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: probably can't have an open casket. And there have been 670 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: times where we've had these really traumatic events where I've 671 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: seen them get wigs, and funeral homes are good about 672 00:42:54,600 --> 00:43:00,839 Speaker 1: doing that. Hats. People will put hats on individuals and 673 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: if they're going to have a viewing. But your sole 674 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: purpose here is I'll put it to you this way, knowing, 675 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: and I don't want to put words into this precious 676 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: woman's mother's mouth. But would you rather her head be 677 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 1: shaved and us appropriately assess these insults to her head? 678 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: Or do you want to run the risk of having 679 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: an incomplete assessment? And this guy's back on the streets. 680 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: You know, I know which one I'm going to pick, 681 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,760 Speaker 1: and because I want I want every I want every 682 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: ounce of retribution that I can get if I'm a 683 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: parent here. And so when we shave the head, and 684 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 1: sometimes we'll do it selectively, we were very very careful though, 685 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: and the more because and these are hard and this 686 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,280 Speaker 1: is one of the problems to run into. You'll see, 687 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 1: like when you get a hammer strike, you'll actually have 688 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 1: an abrasion, Okay that you have to pay real close 689 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: attention to to see because it's so ghastly, because you'll 690 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: have a laceration. Many times that occurs. So you've got 691 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,799 Speaker 1: two things happening. That top layer of skin is abraided 692 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 1: and you'll see the little margins of it because the 693 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: skin is rubbed because it's coming in contact with this 694 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: metal object. Then the skin will split. Okay, sometimes on 695 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: the skin you can see the pattern like a it'll 696 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,720 Speaker 1: look like a quarter almost if it's a flush strike. 697 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 1: Then depended upon the level of force, and I've seen 698 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,799 Speaker 1: this happen. When you get below that layer of the 699 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,400 Speaker 1: scalp and you get onto what's referred to as the 700 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: external table of skull, you'll see a plug of bone 701 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: day that's also shaped like a quarter, and it's depressed, 702 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: which means the bone actually sinks in to criminal vault 703 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: at that point in time, and you know, impacts the 704 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: brain directly and it'll you know, many times the bone 705 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 1: will fragment and the little shards of bone will go 706 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 1: into the brain. That's incompatible with life. Not to mention, 707 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, just a concussive event of this that leads 708 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: to death. The question is was he striking her with 709 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 1: a fist beforehand he had the hammer at the ready 710 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,960 Speaker 1: and then used it, or was he holding the hammer 711 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: in a way that you couldn't really tell if it 712 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: was a hammer strike or not, Like if it's on 713 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,479 Speaker 1: the one of the edges, for instance. I don't see 714 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: that happening, because even if you strike somebody with the 715 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 1: edge of a hammer, you're gonna have these kind of 716 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 1: linear marks that occur on the soft tissue either way. 717 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,879 Speaker 1: Either way, they were able to determine that she did 718 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: die as a result of blunt force trauma. And thankfully, 719 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 1: very very thankfully, Sean Go is no longer among the 720 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: land of the free. He's now been convicted and now 721 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:12,840 Speaker 1: he's awaiting sentencing. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 722 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:13,720 Speaker 1: Body Backs.